The terrorists are winning

[Dichotomy]

"The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, for expedients, and by parts ... the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

What amazes and disgusts me at the same time is that we've become a country divided and controlled by the media.  

It is and it has been for a long time for the American people to believe in something instead of acting like a bunch of spoiled, overindulged, selfish, children.  

We are at war for our very way of life and yet we've allowed ourselves to be controlled by electing people to public office that we wouldn't invite to the family picnic.  

What our government needs is not career politicians what our government needs is people that have no time for big oil, PAC's, etc.  What our government needs is people in it that have the needs of the many instead of their own desire for power in charge.

Political correctness? BAH!!!... if you're a jerk it's okay for me to call you a jerk regardless of your race, creed, or religion.  I don't have to 'accept' you to anything.  

It's not about a war against Islam even though the extremists in that religion see it as a war against everybody that isn't an Islamic.  Geez they're even killing each other because of their 'sect'.  

I am so sick of political correctness I could puke.  We are at war and I think we should try to win it instead of wringing our hands and worrying about collateral damage.  

Let's see.. your noncombatant family got killed because the terrorists hid behind your famly and kids got killed?  Geez.. I'm really sorry about that (and I actually am) however 2,900 and some of our people got killed by those people that think hiding behind noncombatants is okay.

If the Islamic extremists want to pick out a piece of land to duke it out on then sign me up and hand me my weapons.  Let's settle this on the field of honor.  Hiding behind and attacking noncombatants is cowardice and nothing less.

Guess what? We're losing this 'war' because we keep fighting it in the court of world opinion instead of just getting it over with.  We have the tools, technology, and the men who would cheerfully do so.  They just have to adhere to the ROE that the enemy doesn't.

*sigh*

Ikeprof

I'm not a structural engineer by formal education however I am a self taught engineer with over a decade in the steel industry.  The burning fuel from the jetliners would have easily reached temps that would have caused the structural collapses as shown.  I've looked over and over the information available and talked to people who were involved in the design of the WTC.  The way the towers fell were a combination of factors that all came together that nobody could have forseen.  As you said I could post supporting links but in this you're just going to have to trust me that I'm satisfied that the cause of the collapses were straightforward engineering.

B

[Neubob]

Originally posted by lukster
The terrorists hope to rally all of Islam against the west. That would be failure for them as it would be the end of Islam. Their faliure to rally Islam as they hope is the most success they can attain as it means more of the same which is really their only effective action.

I really think that it's a matter of Islam rallying the terrorists. If not for the tacit support that moderate Islam gives to the fanatics, the fanatics would have nothing backing their actions. For every nutjob with a bomb, there're a thousand guys silently, in the comfort of their own homes, nodding their heads in approval, and worse yet, teaching their children whom to fear and distrust. The scary thing is that these passive supporters are strong in number everywhere, not just in the middle east. And god forbid you should kill a fanatic or limit the rights of a moderate. Five more fanatics spring up, with an almost endles supply to exhaust before the end is decided.

[lasersailor184]

I personally think we are losing the war because of our feminine approach to it.  Only lightly swing back at people who swing at us.  Don't offend anyone.  Apologize profusely for every sneeze...

We won't win until we bring the heavy hand of wrath down upon evil people.


For example, a friend of mine brought this up:

With current day munition developments, no one has anything to worry about.  A bad guy could be walking down the street, a small bomb will fall out of the sky an pop next to his head.  Only he dies.  Everyone keeps going because they are not hurt.  


On the other hand, you can play war with an iron hammer.  A bad guy is working in his office, and a 5k pound bomb drops on his building, leveling an entire block.  Everyone is now fearful of being associated or near someone who is bad, and will never think to cross us.

[FUNKED1]

They kill 3,000, we kill 100,000.  That's lightly swinging back?  LOL

Here's a question for Neocons:
Exactly how many muslim lives are worth one american life?  You guys are obviously willing to partake in transactions of this sort, so you must have some sort of values worked out in your heads.  Please share.

[Neubob]

Originally posted by FUNKED1
Exactly how many muslim lives are worth one american life?.

All of them.

And I'm not a neocon, I simply believe in treating the enemy like the enemy. They have this doctrine down pat, and I seriously doubt they'd be losing sleep over a 33 to 1 kill to loss ratio if it were in their favor.

We either fight them day and night, with no mercy, or we don't fight at all. Knocking nations down only to rebuild them in our own image is lunacy, especially when taking into account the fact that the locals want nothing to do with our 'values'. We should be knocking them down because their existence is not compatible with our existence. Short of that directive, we shouldn't even be picking up the big stick.

Yes, we should have nuked Tora Bora. We should have gassed Tora Bora. We should have irradiated it until every grain of sand glowed in the dark. If we'd done that, maybe there'd be fewer videos being released today.

[Chairboy]

Neubob, should we kill all their children too?

[Neubob]

Originally posted by Chairboy
Neubob, should we kill all their children too?

We should treat them like they treat us. There is no elevated morality in war, and we're certainly not about to invent it. The biggest difference between them and us, their biggest advantage, if you will, is that they're willing to do anything it takes. They may not have the means, but they are willing to do ANYTHING within the means theyhave. Had they the bomb, we'd know about it because they would not hesitate to use it. There is no link or source that will corroborate this. I simply believe that any people that perpetrate 9/11 and subsequently support it would do the same with a nuclear warhead.

We've got the means, for sure, but our willpower is sapped by our sense of elevated moral obligation. That is no way to enter into something as brutal and instinctually-driven as war. And yet, we do, and we're amazed when nothing comes of it.

Frankly Chairboy, I'd rather it be their children than mine. I'd rather it be theirs than yours. And they, you'd better believe would rather it be ours. Big difference is that they don't care enough to avoid killing ours. Therein lies their fatal advantage.

[Masherbrum]

Maybe after 300 more threads, the BBS will come to a judgement on the issue.   Until then, flame each other, spew the drivel, opinions, etc.

[Widewing]

Want to know what middle-eastern Muslims believe and think about 9/11 and the USA? Click here and watch the documentary.... If this doesn't get your attention, you're in an induced coma.

My regards,

Widewing

[Neubob]

Here's another link from a previous thread. For those who already don't, it is helpful to take this on a personal level.

Man's last phone conversation

[Shuckins]

What are we supposed to do during a war...establish casualty quotas?

"Oops...we've accidentally killed too many of the enemy folks!  Now, in order to be fair, we have to give them a few free shots."

With only a few exceptions, our forces have made every effort to avoid needless civilian casualties.  The same cannot be said of our opponents, who have to be dug out of their holes in civilian communities.

So you don't feel the war in Iraq is justified.  We get it.  We had no business taking down a thug who is about to undergo his second trial this year...the second one on charges that he committed mass murder and crimes against humanity.

Iraq is not a hole.  Okinawa was a hole.  Iwo Jima was a hole.  The Bocage country of Normandy was a hole.  The casualties we suffered there and the casualties we inflicted there DWARF the Iraqi war in its entirety.

But keep beating the drum boys...

[FUNKED1]

Originally posted by Neubob
Here's another link from a previous thread. For those who already don't, it is helpful to take this on a personal level.

Man's last phone conversation

Yes don't think rationally.  Suspend thought and react emotionally.  Use frequent doses of focused multimedia to maintain non-thinking emotional state for up to 5 years after politically convenient state-sanctioned tragedy.  Perfect sheeple.

[Shuckins]

If I'm a sheep, at least I'm a ram.

You sir, on the other hand, are an ostrich.

[lukster]

Originally posted by FUNKED1
Yes don't think rationally.  Suspend thought and react emotionally.  Use frequent doses of focused multimedia to maintain non-thinking emotional state for up to 5 years after politically convenient state-sanctioned tragedy.  Perfect sheeple.

"Politically convenient state-sanctioned tragedy"?

You're high right?

[FUNKED1]

Dude the Congress created a holiday for it.  I'd call that state-sanctioned.
As far as political convenience, I'm sure you're already familiar with certain PNAC documents.
And I'm high on life.



THX Nancy Reagan!