Author Topic: Cherry Picking (Read 4325 times)

SlapShot · « **Reply #75 on:** October 05, 2006, 12:30:50 PM »

Then you have the "laser beam" gunnery of the Spit deflection shot to worry about too, not to mention the dreaded collision.

Huh !?!?! ... u mean to tell me it's the plane that decides when to shoot and not the pilot ? ... or do you really not know the devastating effects that a 20mm hispano can deliver ?

Cherry Picking and/or BnZ is a valid fighting style, but please don't get overzealous on the skills involved.

Most Cherry Pickers or BnZers that I have run into and caught ... died within seconds after they realize there was no place to run ... without speed and/or E ... they for the most part are cannon fodder.

gatt · « **Reply #76 on:** October 05, 2006, 12:40:01 PM »

Ok I give up: I'm not good at both fighting styles and english is not my mother tongue. Too difficult ...

HomeBoy · « **Reply #77 on:** October 05, 2006, 12:48:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SlapShot Huh !?!?! ... u mean to tell me it's the plane that decides when to shoot and not the pilot ? ... or do you really not know the devastating effects that a 20mm hispano can deliver ?

Cherry Picking and/or BnZ is a valid fighting style, but please don't get overzealous on the skills involved.

My turn to go "huh?" I don't get your comment at all. Where do you hear me say ANYTHING that implies that I think the "plane decides" anything? Are you arguing that the Spit9 (for example) does not exhibit pin-point gunnery compared to a 109? You will lose that argument my friend.

And with respect to the "devastation effects of a 20mm", you make my point for me. How many times have I had a Hurri-2C whirl around and take me out in a HO pass. The point here is "cherry picking" is not the safe "dweeb" tactic that you guys are making it out to be.

I truly hope you folks never win this argument. I would hate to play this game and do nothing but turn fight. Hats off to you turn-fighters (I like to get in there and do that too some times) but the Arenas are "war games", not meeting places for dog fighting. There is a Dogfight Arena that is designed specifically for that not to mention the H2H games.

SlapShot · « **Reply #78 on:** October 05, 2006, 12:52:06 PM »

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Originally posted by gatt
Ok I give up: I'm not good at both fighting styles and english is not my mother tongue. Too difficult ...

E25280 · « **Reply #79 on:** October 05, 2006, 01:10:56 PM »

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Originally posted by HomeBoy
. . . stuff . . .

If I may weigh in, from what I've read, you seem to have confused the "cherry picker" with the "Boom and Zoomer" or "Energy Fighter". Unless I am hugely mistaken (which I often am), Skyrock et. al. have nothing against the valid use of energy fighting.

The "cherry picker" is often an "energy fighter", but not all "energy fighters" are "cherry pickers."

The key is fighting. You and your target are aware of each other, each trying to sucker the other into giving up his advantage. The turn fighter tries to bleed your E and get you to turn. You try to keep the fight in the verticle. Fair enough. Use your BnZ for all its worth.

The guy who sits 4K above a 6 player furball waiting for his chance to swoop on the enemy with the least E is the cherry picker. Sure, he is using BnZ tactics, but not really fighting. What he is doing is more like vulching, except the target is not on a runway.

My take anyway.

chaingun · « **Reply #80 on:** October 05, 2006, 01:20:56 PM »

woot im a picker!

scottydawg · « **Reply #81 on:** October 05, 2006, 01:24:52 PM »

I like to fight.
I like to win.
I like peanut butter cookies.

HomeBoy · « **Reply #82 on:** October 05, 2006, 01:42:55 PM »

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Originally posted by E25280 If I may weigh in, from what I've read, you seem to have confused the "cherry picker" with the "Boom and Zoomer" or "Energy Fighter".

You speak with reason. Thank you. However, I'm not confused. I know exactly what these guys are complaining about. In fact, this argument has been going on since I first hit the scene in 1998.

There are two issues here. One is, there is a group of "score potatos" who have discovered how to use energy fighting to run up scores. I am fully aware of that. These jerks have no desire to get into either the "war game" or the "dogfighting game." They just want kills. Nothing more. The other issue is energy fighting beats turn fighting, all things being equal, if for no other reason than the energy fighter can break off the fight any time he wants and the turn fighter does not have that option.

Now, these "Group B" guys complain bitterly against "cherry pickers." Trouble is, they can't tell who is a "score potato-cherry picker" and who is a "cherry-picker" like me (hopefully) who is trying to win the war and will use whatever tactic I can to get that done. We are both using the same tactics. Since, because they are turn-fighters, they have no options against the energy fighter unless they are successful at getting him to start turning with them. They therefore feel they have no recourse but to come here and cry foul. Many will go so far as to appeal to Hitec and try to get "cherry-picking" dealt with in some way. I'm sorry but that really rubs me the wrong way.

My point is the turn-fighter has two courses of action. One is to go to the Dogfight Arena and have at it. The other is modify their flying habits so that they are not "cherries." Coming here and whinning is just not very becoming.

Clutz · « **Reply #83 on:** October 05, 2006, 02:08:49 PM »

HomeBoy, very good info in your above post. I can see your experience playing this game. TY. I think it is the 'score potatos" that limit this game and the many different possibilities and styles of fighting for the rest of us. At least when there is so many of them in a particular area of the map. This is just a shame.

lazs2 · « **Reply #84 on:** October 05, 2006, 02:14:27 PM »

the cherry picker that most laugh at is the one who allways looks for the risk free kill and avoids a fight at any cost.... he will run every time even with the advantage and he is allways in the fastest plane with the best guns or... very close to it.

This type of guy is rarely possesed of even mediocre acm skills and would hat an arena that had only fast planes allowed... he absolutely depends on others choosing lesser planes and fighting each other. and....

having less of the one skill that he does have.... the ability to wait forever... the complete lack of the boredom gene no matter how boring the style may be.

This is all fine but... that is why they are laughed at. It is quite common in every furball I have ever been in for all of us talking on radio and laughing at the guy... I have never heard anyone say anthing that vaugely resembled admiration for the poor clutz.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

SkyRock · « **Reply #85 on:** October 05, 2006, 02:30:32 PM »

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Originally posted by HomeBoy
Now, you're just being silly. I'm willing to give in on some of what you have been saying but frankly that's just emotion talking there! [Maybe even a bit of whinning!]

"Cherry picking", or whatever the crap you want to call it, is risky business. You must keep your speed up which risks compression (especially in a 109) and if you get enticed to turn much to get the kill, your speed gets bled then you get jumped by the Spits and Niks. Then you have the "laser beam" gunnery of the Spit deflection shot to worry about too, not to mention the dreaded collision. You want to tell me a "two week newb" can deal with all that? Ok, I'm not a great pilot, average at best. You can certainly criticise me on that, but I'm no "two week newb" either and I find "cherry picking" (I like the term "energy fighting" better) very challenging and keeping my plane fast and high requires much concentration. Nothing like you imply.

I'll get the occassional radio message to the effect of "Come back and fight you dweeb!" I just have to laugh. Yeah, right, I'm going to drop down into a Luffberry with you Spits and Hurri-s and fight "your" fight! You'd love that wouldn't you?

And you say I don't want to fight? You're sure right there. If I can pick you off without a fight, I'll do it EVERY time! The objective is to run you off from our base or take your base or clear the path for our bombers, etc. If I can accomplish that without getting fired upon, that I call that SMART. You can continue to whine about "fairness" and "lameness" all you want. I can take it!

How in the world you get whinning out of me calling a spade a spade I'll never know. As far as most are concerned, they will choose a ride that they believe doesn't turn well so they can use the excuse, "Im not turning with that spit" when in fact many of us dogfighting vets kill spits and la7's and nikis all the time in our 109's, f4u's and, p-47's. Its not the turning radius that determines the outcome of a dogfight, its the angles. You have to know how to fight in the ride your in.

SkyRock · « **Reply #86 on:** October 05, 2006, 02:46:44 PM »

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Originally posted by HomeBoy

Now, these "Group B" guys complain bitterly against "cherry pickers." Trouble is, they can't tell who is a "score potato-cherry picker" and who is a "cherry-picker" like me (hopefully) who is trying to win the war and will use whatever tactic I can to get that done. We are both using the same tactics. Since, because they are turn-fighters, they have no options against the energy fighter unless they are successful at getting him to start turning with them. They therefore feel they have no recourse but to come here and cry foul. Many will go so far as to appeal to Hitec and try to get "cherry-picking" dealt with in some way. I'm sorry but that really rubs me the wrong way.

My point is the turn-fighter has two courses of action. One is to go to the Dogfight Arena and have at it. The other is modify their flying habits so that they are not "cherries." Coming here and whinning is just not very becoming.

Being moronicly inept at understanding a post is also something that we have to deal with here as well! Look homeboy, the thread is about defining what acherry picker is. So there are people that have been there that will post their opinion on the definition of a cherry picker. If you read what this thread is about you will see that the thread starter is not whining or complaining about cherry pickers. I could care less if my victims start at 3k or at 11k, they are usually still going to be my victim. Now if you learned how to actually fight, you wouldnt need all your alt and run bore tactics to take a base or win a war. You could take a few good folks and totally cap a base. Then call you r bomber guys in finish the town and drop troops. But you think we actually believe that you sit up there on your lame perch for your countries sake? What a crock, while youre up there picking what cherry to bnz and miss 11 times, I have been towering all your country mates below in quick fashion. While you're running from a con that has climbed up to within 3k of you, I am killing all ur goons. Take your pathetic excuses for being lame and go shove them down some newbies throat because I have been there and done that. I am also willing to bet you still fly with stall limiter on too, ......right? You wouldn't know how to fight if a fight bit you on your arse, which is why you don't fight,..........you cherrypick! lol:rofl Sorry for being so harsh with you son, I just thought it would sound better!

HomeBoy · « **Reply #87 on:** October 05, 2006, 02:59:20 PM »

You sure put me in my place didn't you?

Solar10 · « **Reply #88 on:** October 05, 2006, 03:51:46 PM »

Hitech needs to code a "cherry cloaking device" to prevent your plane being picked when you turn it into a "big ripe cherry".

Alternatively you can just have better SA!

Shuffler · « **Reply #89 on:** October 05, 2006, 04:24:29 PM »

I like to be the first to suggest HT puts a large cherry emblem on the top of chutes.

Other than that, cherry pickers, B&Zmers, low level weedwhackers, bombers, fighters, pros, noobs, furballers, they all have a place in this game. Your mission should you chose to accept it, is to obliterate anything red..... oh and have fun doing it