Author Topic: Time to help the Me-410 (Read 11514 times)

quintv · « **Reply #75 on:** March 30, 2007, 10:05:57 PM »

The Me.410 is not uber.

What it is is versatile, mean looking, and potentially a VERY fun aircraft to fly.

Plus its DED sexay

moot · « **Reply #76 on:** March 31, 2007, 01:00:40 AM »

Viking and Humble, what're you guys doing?

The 410 gets a vote just because it's so cool.
The 110 wasn't a great furball figter at all in WWII... and look at it in the MA. In the MA, the 410 might just be a 110, but with the TnB/BnZ performance ratio inverted.. What's for sure is that it will get great guns, look beautiful, shoot deadly snapshots with those centralized guns and semi-glass cockpit, and with some luck will carry a BK5 and high velocity MK103s..
There's plenty of planes that aren't supposed to be any good at what they do great in the arenas.

Nilsen · « **Reply #77 on:** March 31, 2007, 01:36:19 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by moot
Viking and Humble, what're you guys doing?

The 410 gets a vote just because it's so cool.
The 110 wasn't a great furball figter at all in WWII... and look at it in the MA. In the MA, the 410 might just be a 110, but with the TnB/BnZ performance ratio inverted.. What's for sure is that it will get great guns, look beautiful, shoot deadly snapshots with those centralized guns and semi-glass cockpit, and with some luck will carry a BK5 and high velocity MK103s..
There's plenty of planes that aren't supposed to be any good at what they do great in the arenas.

Indeed

humble · « **Reply #78 on:** March 31, 2007, 03:54:21 AM »

The A-20 has a maximum takeoff weight of just over 20,000 lbs giving it max possible wingload of about 43 lbs/sqf. If you subtract just the ords you have a max wingloading of just over 39 lbs/sqf. Using the same "math" with the 410 your at roughly 54.5 lbs/sqf....not even close. I said about the same as the A-26.

As for the 38's record I could go dig the names up fairly easily but why? The germans lost alot of pilots who transfered from the east. Going of memory II/JG6 bounced about 12 lightings in mid 1944 (around D-day). The 40 or so 190's shot down half but then were bounced by other lightings. At the end JG6 lost 16 190's (to 7 38's) with many others badly shot up. The mauling was so bad that II/JG6 had to be withdrawn from service. I believe Otto Webling was killed in that engagement but I'm not certain (going from memory). Here are a few others....

Kurt Ebener
Reinhold Hoffmann
Wolfgang Neu
Anton Piffer
Gunther Seeger

38 victim
38 victim
38 victim
38 victim
38 victim
38 victim
38 victim 38 victim
38 victim

This is certainly not guaranteed completely accurate as i'm not going to dig up all documentation. The p-38 continued to perform bomber escort missions well into late 1944...

Ball · « **Reply #79 on:** March 31, 2007, 03:57:33 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by quintv
The Me.410 is not uber.

What it is is versatile, mean looking, and potentially a VERY fun aircraft to fly.

Plus its DED sexay

Also, because of the layout of the glass on the canopy - there will be no finer aircraft for making high deflection shots.

humble · « **Reply #80 on:** March 31, 2007, 04:28:02 AM »

I'm not for or against the 410. Certainly it should be modeled at some point...just like the g.55 and the brewster. However I dont see the need to make it the #1 priority. I still view this as a "fighter" game and see the P-39 or yak 3 as a more favorable option. I think the 110 is actually an exceptionally flexible plane that see's wide use. To me the 410 is actually a step back in many ways. I think the comparisions to the 38 are fantasy...given we have a 2 x 30mm 4 x 20mm 110 option I dont see the 410 really providing anything truely different.

The Yak-9U we have is 20+ mph faster then the yak-3 and has almost identical wingloading...again basically just a wash. Neither option seems to make alot of sense to me....

Nilsen · « **Reply #81 on:** March 31, 2007, 04:57:30 AM »

We sertainly dont _need_ the 410, but I want it! It's an emotional thing. I think it looks awesome and has a few other bits that makes it interesting. The excellent forward view is something we dont really have in any other german "fighter planes"

Ball · « **Reply #82 on:** March 31, 2007, 05:01:14 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nilsen
We sertainly dont _need_ the 410, but I want it! It's an emotional thing.

I think that we owe it to Nilsen to add the Me-410 to the game.

God bless you Nilsen.

airspro · « **Reply #83 on:** March 31, 2007, 05:30:49 AM »

Now that my pick is out , seems the 410 to me would be a nice addition to AH so it gets my votes going forward .

hubsonfire · « **Reply #84 on:** March 31, 2007, 09:13:33 AM »

Not to pick and choose favorites, but there was a time when the 110 didn't see nearly as much usage in the MAs as it does now. It also used to be a hangar queen of sorts, and seemed to come into its own as a toolshedding monster. The 410 may not perform as well as the 110, but would surely find some use in the MAs. Getting to be a broken record about this, but how well a plane performed in the war can be a far cry from how competitive or useful (or fun, even) it might be in the MAs.

Gianlupo · « **Reply #85 on:** March 31, 2007, 09:18:37 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by hubsonfire
The 410 may not perform as well as the 110, but would surely find some use in the MAs.

Agree, it would be a wonderful attacking plane. It can carry torpedoes, too.

Quote

Getting to be a broken record about this, but how well a plane performed in the war can be a far cry from how competitive or useful (or fun, even) it might be in the MAs.

SSSSHHHHHHHHHHHT! Don't even say that! I tried to explain that to people, regarding the G.55... and look what happened!

Xasthur · « **Reply #86 on:** March 31, 2007, 12:42:30 PM »

Vote 410! No more frigging useless, cannon fodder American bombers!

VOTE 410!

morfiend · « **Reply #87 on:** March 31, 2007, 07:55:43 PM »

Viking · « **Reply #88 on:** March 31, 2007, 08:54:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by humble
The A-20 has a maximum takeoff weight of just over 20,000 lbs giving it max possible wingload of about 43 lbs/sqf. If you subtract just the ords you have a max wingloading of just over 39 lbs/sqf. Using the same "math" with the 410 your at roughly 54.5 lbs/sqf....not even close. I said about the same as the A-26.

Again with the intentionally wrong “math”. We agreed earlier that a normally loaded Me 410 without bombs or external fuel weighed around 16,000-17,000 lbs which gives it a wing loading of 41-43,5 lbs/sq.f.

But, go ahead; continue your trolling. It’s the only thing you’re good at.

Quote

Originally posted by humble
Kurt Ebener

Was not killed by a P-38. Ebener died on the Eastern Front fighting in the German army.

Quote

Originally posted by humble
Reinhold Hoffmann

Was not killed by a P-38. Died in landing accident following combat with US bombers.

Quote

Originally posted by humble
Wolfgang Neu

At the time Neu was killed only the 20th, 55th and 479th FG were still flying P-38s in the ETO. More likely killed by P-47 or P-51. Unless you can substantiate your claim.

Quote

Originally posted by humble
Anton Piffer

At the time Piffer was killed only the 20th, 55th, 364th and 479th FG were still flying P-38s in the ETO. More likely killed by P-47 or P-51. Unless you can substantiate your claim.

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Originally posted by humble
Gunther Seeger

This is the funny one. Gunter Seeger retired a lieutenant colonel in the bundesluftwaffe in 1974.

Quote

Originally posted by humble
38 victim

Shot down and killed in Tunisia on 12 January 1943. Not over western Europe in 1944 as you claim:

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Originally posted by humble
Numerous expertain fell to the P-38 in combat actions over western europe in 1944.

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Originally posted by humble
38 victim

Clade survived the war (with three P-38 pelts I might add).

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Originally posted by humble
38 victim

Died in the French Foreign Legion retirement home on 1 June 2003.

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Originally posted by humble
38 victim

Shot down over Italy, not in the ETO.

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Originally posted by humble
38 victim

A P-38 did indeed kill Rohwer. He was strafed on the ground. I don’t think vulching counts.

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Originally posted by humble
38 victim

Mid-air collision with a P-38 did Seifert in, so I’ll give you that one; killed by P-38 all right.

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Originally posted by humble
38 victim

Again, shot down over Italy not ETO.

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Originally posted by humble
38 victim

Killed in landing accident with a 262.

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Originally posted by humble
38 victim

At the time Ubben was killed only the 20th, 55th, 364th and 479th FG were still flying P-38s in the ETO. More likely killed by P-47 or P-51. Unless you can substantiate your claim. Ubben killed seven P-38s so I guess they owed him one.

Quote

Originally posted by humble
This is certainly not guaranteed completely accurate as i'm not going to dig up all documentation.

Nice cover in case your blatant lying is found out. Like I said, continue your trolling.

JAWS2003 · « **Reply #89 on:** March 31, 2007, 09:57:16 PM »

Ouch.