Best Prop Plane??????

[Masherbrum]

You guys need to take a deep breath, and give Skuzzy a hug.   Krusty, Steve, let it go.

[Krusty]

I post details about the P51D flight model in AH as it stands now, and he simply says "nuh-uh!" and says I'm on drugs for..... what? Pointing out what he didn't know already?


I did post my previous post with some snarking, but he had it coming. He's off base and can't accept it. He's ranting about how bad the P51 is, and when the facts are pointed out that (second to the F4u-4) it's one of the best US planes in the game he just ignores fact and says "no its not"

I don't have anything vested in this thread. I'd normally have let it go. However in a thread where new people may look for help choosing a plane, I didn't want him spreading misinformation like he has.


For the community members at large, I'm sorry if you didn't like my tone in the previous thread.

[Krusty]

P.S. So you don't need any effort to check, I'm posting the link:

P-38J, P-38L, P-51B, and P-51D comparison (note turn radius portion)

[SteveBailey]

Originally posted by Krusty
HIS argument is vapor?!??! Let's talk about YOURS... You say it's got less ammo for the guns. Okay, big WHOOP. You still have the same guns, and instead of having 400rpg like USN planes, it's got 2 guns with 400 rpg and 2 with about 300. Like Bozon said it's still enough for a large number of kills. I've landed 5+ kill sorties without rearm many times in it.

Then you're going on and on about how the 109D9 is so wonderful, and you admit you don't fly it? Where are you pulling this performance from?

I DO fly the 190D, and HAVE flown it in historic matchups and setups vs P51s. It is dominated by the pony at all alts. Speed alone means jack. The P51 does everything better than the dora.

Then you're out of touch with the P51 enough to say that it doesn't out turn ANY us plane? You say it can't accelerate? You say it can't climb? You then accuse me of smoking crack because YOU are out of touch so far you can't understand how it's even modeled in this game.

What, have you ever FLOWN the P51D? I ask because you don't fly the Dora yet have the audacity to make sweeping comments about its performance, and here we have just as many wrong sweeping comments about the P51.

Here's a tip: Check DokGonzo's link in my sig. Aside from the F4u (which is just a freak of nature in this game) the P51 handles itself QUITE well -- this includes turn radius.


SteveBailey you've lost any respect I might have had for you, posting unfounded lies about planes you admit you don't fly. It's not even that you're gushing about your favorite, you're just so far off base it's not even funny.


P.S. The P51D outclimbs the F4u1 by over 600fpm below 10k, they become more or less even as the power dips until about 14k or whatever it is, then it jumps way ahead of it again.


[Edited for tact]

Krusty, there you go again comparing the 51 to only US planes.  I said, and just for you, I'll say it again, it is out classed by it's contemporaries.  Will you please take a moment to  show me where I said anything about only other US planes in my initial assertion? The contemporaries I'm referring to are the spixteen, LA7, k4,  and D9.  Again, will you please show me where I was cimparing the 51 to only other US planes?  Thanks.

[SteveBailey]

The P51 does everything better than the dora.

It does everything better than the d9?   You mean everything better except rolling, speed, turn, climb,  acceleration, lethality?  You must, because the d9 does all those things better.

[SteveBailey]

You say it can't accelerate? You say it can't climb?

No, I said it's acceleration  and climb is mediocre compared to its contemporaries. It contemporaries are not the other US planes.  They are the la7, d9, spit16 and the k4.  I'll say it for you again, the 51 is outclassed by its contemporaries.

hen you're out of touch with the P51 enough to say that it doesn't out turn ANY us plane?

Nope, I didn't say that.  I said "Turn rate is well below average, towards the bottom for all fighters".  Am I wrong?

[Widewing]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Nope, I didn't say that.  I said "Turn rate is well below average, towards the bottom for all fighters".  Am I wrong?

Nope, you are exactly correct. The current modeling of the P-51s results in it being out-turned by everything but the 190s..

Get it up above 20k and things improve quite a bit.. But, we don't fight there in AH2. Thus, Steve is correct.

My regards,

Widewing

[SteveBailey]

Krusty, to save you some search time, below you will find my original quote.  As you can see,  I'm not comparing it to other US planes, I'm comparing it to other late war(LW) rides. Additionally, " in it's current model" refers to the emasculating of the 51 flaps, where turning is concerned.

The 51, in it's current model, isn't a very good plane, compared to other LW rides.

Also:  

In summary, the 51 is decidely outclassed by its contemporaries in the LW, as it stands today

[SteveBailey]

I ask because you don't fly the Dora yet have the audacity to make sweeping comments about its performance,

Actually I took the information of the exact same website you referenced with your 51/38 turn comparison. If you want to argue points about turning relevent to my assertion, compare how well the 51D does in turning against other LW planes.

What, have you ever FLOWN the P51D?

Well, here's my totals for the last three tours for the 51D:

Kills in 51D: 721

Died in 51D: 43

So I have flown it a bit, yes.    

[SteveBailey]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
You guys need to take a deep breath, and give Skuzzy a hug.   Krusty, Steve, let it go.

Mash, sorry bro, it's just spirited debate(for me at least).  Nothing wrong, IMHO, in debating w/ a little fervor.  I'm sure after the smoke is cleared, we'll all still be pals.*  

*Not pretending to know the minds of others, just my opinion.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Mash, sorry bro, it's just spirited debate(for me at least).  Nothing wrong, IMHO, in debating w/ a little fervor.  I'm sure after the smoke is cleared, we'll all still be pals.*  

*Not pretending to know the minds of others, just my opinion.

cc that.  <> bud

[bozon]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Well, here's my totals for the last three tours for the 51D:

Kills in 51D: 721

Died in 51D: 43

So I have flown it a bit, yes.    

Nice.
So either it does not "sux" or you have the abilities of a jedi. Where exactly is the problem, not whining about those 43 deaths are you?

[mtnman]

So either it does not "sux" or you have the abilities of a jedi.

Looks to me like he's figured out how to be successful within the boundaries imposed by the P51's flight model.  

Being successful in a given plane does not mean the plane doesn't have some serious disadvantages associated with it.

The jedi thing I'm not real sure of.  I didn't know Yoda was available anymore.  I know he's always booked when I try to get some time scheduled.

MtnMan

[Krusty]

Let's see...

Originally posted by SteveBailey
I've already established how it is clearly outclassed by most of it's late war contemporaries.
[...]
anything the pony does, the d9 does better. So does the la7 at MA alts, unless you consider views and high speed handling... oh ya, I already mentioned those.

and..

Originally posted by SteveBailey

It turns slightly better than the 38J/L without flaps, and only slightly worse with flaps

No it doesn't. And the 38L turns markedly better with flaps, not a little better. What about the rest of the entire US fighters? 51 can't turn w/ them, isn'tt close to most of them

It outclimbs all f4us but the

Wrong again. They are nearly the same, unless you are going w/ your fractionally again.

It has better acceleration than all US planes except the F4U-4.

Dude, put down the crack pipe...WRONG again. [snip][/b]

You brought "contemporaries" into it, equivelant aircraft from the same time. That includes competitors in its own nation. That includes P47s, F4us, and P-38s. Then YOU brought up "turns worse than all other US rides". YOU brought the subject up, and when I countered with a correct set of details, you said "does not!"

Originally posted by SteveBailey
I don't fly the d9 much.

Originally posted by SteveBailey
I was merely comparing planes

And, the cherry on top:

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Will you please take a moment to show me where I said anything about only other US planes

You didn't say "only" but you had some US-plane specific info that was incorrect.

Then let's not forget this:

Originally posted by SteveBailey

hen you're out of touch with the P51 enough to say that it doesn't out turn ANY us plane?

Nope, I didn't say that.[/b]

Let me refresh your memory:

Originally posted by SteveBailey
What about the rest of the entire US fighters? 51 can't turn w/ them, isn'tt close to most of them

EDIT: I RE-post the link above:


P-38J, P-38L, P-51B, and P-51D comparison (note turn radius portion)

[Krusty]

Other than a request that Steve read all the replies before replying himself (instead of doing 3-5 single replies, make one), I'm done with this thread. I've listed the link to the game stats. I've simply tried to illustrate the P-51 is not a POS like Steve claimed. Then I defended my statements to him (the long quotes post above was my justification for posting, if you didn't care for it, then ignore it. It was for steve mostly).

I'm done with the thread. The P-51 is one of the better and more dynamic planes in the game. Don't believe anybody if they tell you it sucked in any way.