B29 Superfortress and a thought from a squaddie

[Stoney74]

Originally posted by Rich46yo
The night before I pounded the Knight city twice and nobody bothered to come. Kinda disappointing.

Announce it on Channel 200.  We used to do that for those HARM missions we ran back earlier this year just to stir up the bees.

[Lusche]

Originally posted by Rich46yo
That was you? I saw you way up in the stratosphere but unless you were going to turn east I didn't think we had any strats in that corner. B-17s right? I called it out but apparently nobody intercepted. I was N/B in 26s looking for a CV.
 

I think that must have been someone else. The only buff I encountered enroute was a B-25 formation flown by bigk29.

[Hien]

Originally posted by MajIssue
Close... I think not. History is what it is and the US produced more aircraft than all others (combined I believe), hense the "imbalance". Why have  hanger queens in the game at all? Someones love of the Brewster Buffalo (for example) doesn't justify it being in the AH2 plane set. Maybe it could be a way for the veteran pilots to pad their scores when newbies up HE-111s. or MiG-3s

If you had more stick time in buffs you would know what imbalance REALLY is! Try bombing (even at 25K+) a target within ME-262 or 163 range in ANY of the current heavies. In lancs it is a joke. you would do as well throwing marbles at a 262 as shooting at them with  the .303s.  There is also the issue of the limited ammount of bullits in the defensive guns of lancs . It seems like about 30 each! Even B-17s/24s with all of their M-2s are no match for a swarm of jet/rocket propelled aircraft! Even in large formations The advanced German aircraft will cut through  bombers like a hot knife through butter.

Also why would you hope that the US was outnumbered? As a US Army vet it was my firm belief that if you went into a war and it was a fair fight you shouldn't be there! But, I digress

I would hope the US is outnumbered in Aces High, because this isn't a war, and the countries have the ability to use all the aircraft.  This is a game.  And games need balance.  Less they become one sided free for alls (And I for one would find an Arena full of nothing but high alt P-51s, and B-29s boring as heck.)  I said nothing about real life, where I would also like to believe that 5 countries, allies included, could outnumber the number of specific aircraft that the US built.    

Not in numbers of aircraft built persay, but in numbers of different models of aircraft.   In the end, even if the US does have more specific aircraft I still think we need to catch some of the other planesets up some.  Because they had quite a few aircraft as well.  Quite a few aircraft that we could use to fill out thier planesets in this game.

And Hangar Queens have a good purpose, to me atleast.   They are there, to be used.  If people so choose not to use them that is thier own fault.  Every single aircraft in this game can be a menace to just about anything.  B5Ns can, and will, torp your CV if given the chance.  D3As will turn and burn dogfight with anything, if given the chance.  When given half the chance, and a pilot who knows the aircraft, any aircraft in this game will destroy something.   But is that really the point?  Not to me.  To me fun is the point.  You question the Brewster Buffalo, and its fans.  I know it was just an example, but bear with me for a moment.

You question the Buffalo, well, I question the B-29.  We don't need another Bomber.  Not at this point in time, right now I believe we need a new fighter.  Something that could compete with all the Spit16s, P-51Ds, La-7s, whatever.   The Buffalo may not be able to do that, but other aircraft that are available to be chosen, and were important in their times, are.  The Yak-3 (With perhaps the 3P version as well) for example.  They played a major role in thier own theater.  (Though, after reading Wiki they seem slightly... worse than the 9U, but I'm sure that there are other aircraft that we could add, such as the J2M5)  

But at the same time, I don't fly Buffs, so I don't feel the pain that my bomb load isn't high enough to drop the town, or down Fighter Hangars.  Or the menace of a Yak-9T plinking at me from lord knows how far away.  

I guess that it's always been like this though.  People who fly Fighters against People who fly Bombers.   Both want thier own way, I want a P-26, and alot of people want a B-29.  I do think I'm going to lose.  It's almost no question at all to me.  That doesn't mean I'm going to give up.  Because the aircraft I so chose to fight for, just like yours, has its purposes, and uses.  

I agree though, any fight you go into that is fair is a mistake.  You messed up if it's fair, or heck, they did to.
 
On the note of the 262s, and 163s.  I would also hope that they tear through bomber formations like a hot knife through butter.  I believe that's what they were designed to do.  And it would appear that they were designed fairly well.  

(Though, 30 262s might be... overdoing it a tad bit.  How many 30mm guns is that...?  I can hear it now... "262 raid inbound A1!" *shudders*)

[Rich46yo]

Originally posted by Lusche
I think that must have been someone else. The only buff I encountered enroute was a B-25 formation flown by bigk29.

                    Well this B-17 formation had about 14,000' on me, and I was at 12,000', and it was in the OMA with the map we've been staring at for a week. It was on the A1 side, S/W, over land. Come to think of it you can get at strats that way.

                   Maybe you didn't even see me. Anyway I remember thinking, "who the heck is that that climbed that high in B-17s"?

                   Back to the thread. We need another perk bomber. Its really that simple. We have only one thats used very little cause its more of a "novelty airplane" then a useful one. Fighter sticks have what? 4 or 5 perk airplanes??

                 C'mon guys. Fair is fair.

[Bronk]

Originally posted by Rich46yo
Well this B-17 formation had about 14,000' on me, and I was at 12,000', and it was in the OMA with the map we've been staring at for a week. It was on the A1 side, S/W, over land. Come to think of it you can get at strats that way.

                   Maybe you didn't even see me. Anyway I remember thinking, "who the heck is that that climbed that high in B-17s"?

                   Back to the thread. We need another perk bomber. Its really that simple. We have only one thats used very little cause its more of a "novelty airplane" then a useful one. Fighter sticks have what? 4 or 5 perk airplanes??

                 C'mon guys. Fair is fair.

Yup at 300 points a piece is about right.

[Lusche]

Originally posted by Rich46yo
Well this B-17 formation had about 14,000' on me, and I was at 12,000', and it was in the OMA with the map we've been staring at for a week. It was on the A1 side, S/W, over land. Come to think of it you can get at strats that way.

Nope, wasn't me. I checked the whole film, you never showed up. And my approach didn't take me close to A1:

[Rich46yo]

No, then it couldnt have been you. I took off from 9 and was IB to run on 19 so I was probably close to 62 or 8. Strange that I saw 17s that high, or, perhaps they were lower then I think. Oh well, anyways.

                            Nobody would fly 29s if they were perked that high. 300 for a formation?? Maybe. Probably. Why would anyone fly a single 300 point bomber when you can take 3 24s or 17s and have as much, or more, destructive power with a un-perked formation?

                         Most of all since there are a fair amount of fighters that would pose a serious threat to B-29s. Threats that the airplane never really saw in the war.

[Bronk]

Originally posted by Rich46yo

                         Most of all since there are a fair amount of fighters that would pose a serious threat to B-29s. Threats that the airplane never really saw in the war.

Not at designed alt , 3 maybe 4 ac models would be a serious threat.

[Lusche]

If I recall right, max speed of a B-29 is about 360 at 30K.

Only a few planes can hope to catch them at that alt. And almost all of them will really have big troubles attacking a 20mm equipped bomber at that alt & speed.

If you ever took a 262 to 30k you'll know what I'm talking about.

A few tours ago, the was a big  buff mission attacking knight HQ on Ndisles map. The bombers went all across the map with a huge darbar, thus many knight pilots trying to intercept. The buffs finally died, but only AFTER bombing their target, most of them by 163's.
30mins before that, the fended off attack after attack. Why? Because it's very difficult to engage even slow B17 & B24s at that alt. Several 262s had a lot of problems setting up their attacks, some were even shot down. Now imagine that buffs going 340 and shooting back with 20mm guns...

[Rich46yo]

Originally posted by Bronk
Not at designed alt , 3 maybe 4 ac models would be a serious threat.

                        Which was what? 30,000'? How many times during the war did they actually fly 30,000'? How often in the game do you think they would? They would have a hard time hitting anything from that high I assume as well.

                     So what fighters would pose a threat? First off would be "The Butcher Birds" right? The 190 has no perk value and a lot of good sticks fly it already. Of course the 262 and 163's. The 109s, P-51s,P-38s, maybe the F4U? I suspect B-29s would get a whole lot of attention from these airplanes.

[Bronk]

Originally posted by Rich46yo
Which was what? 30,000'? How many times during the war did they actually fly 30,000'? How often in the game do you think they would? They would have a hard time hitting anything from that high I assume as well.

This is not war, it's a game. The reason they stopped operations at alt was because of the jet stream. Since there is no wind in AH's MAs and the bomb sight is set on EZ mode. I'd expect it to be easy as pie.

                     So what fighters would pose a threat? First off would be "The Butcher Birds" right? The 190 has no perk value and a lot of good sticks fly it already. Of course the 262 and 163's. The 109s, P-51s,P-38s, maybe the F4U? I suspect B-29s would get a whole lot of attention from these airplanes.

At desigend alt
1 P-47n
2.Ta 152
3.f4u-4 *perked*
4. p51 b
5. 262  *perked*
6. 163  *perked and only at one base*
7. 109k4
8. Spitfire Mk XIV *perked*
 So I'll amend my comment. 8 aircraft have an decent chance at attacking the B-29. Four of them are perked AC, with one of them being base limited.
You would stand little chance of launching and catching an an at alt and speed 29.

Think you'd better have a look at the speed and climb charts Rich.

[Rich46yo]

Originally posted by Bronk
At desigend alt
1 P-47n
2.Ta 152
3.f4u-4 *perked*
4. p51 b
5. 262  *perked*
6. 163  *perked and only at one base*
7. 109k4
8. Spitfire Mk XIV *perked*
 So I'll amend my comment. 8 aircraft have an decent chance at attacking the B-29. Four of them are perked AC, with one of them being base limited.
You would stand little chance of launching and catching an an at alt and speed 29.

Think you'd better have a look at the speed and climb charts Rich.

                            Dont need to. I can guess from off the top of my head. That, and from what Ive seen in the game. First off I bet we'd never see anyone climbing a 29 to 30,000'. I know I never would. 20,000'?? Sure! Maybe even 25,000' on occasion. But most of the time 15,000 to 20,000'. Besides we have comms in the game. Anyone that saw 29s would radio ahead and give guys time to get up to alt.

                           Fact is there are very few things you can do to amuse yourself while flying big bombers to that alt. Especially for a guy my age.  Its about as exciting as giving your dog a flea bath. Conversely I just flew KI-67s thru a furball, had about 3 minutes of sheer cyber-terror while a bunch of demented Bish teenagers tried to run me down, and landed 3 kills with my hide still intact. Which is more fun? And where would be the fun of flying the B-29 at an alt where its invulnerable? This is a big reason I changed from strats to frontline bases anyways.

                      Of course it really wouldnt be invulnerable. Even if only 262s and 163s rode against them, which they wouldnt. There would be others and a couple/three formations of B-29s together would garner a whole lot of attention, while opening up more of the map to play with a renewed interest in strats.

[Bronk]

That's your prerogative to fly at whatever alt. Although we were discussing designed alt.
You must have taken a tap class as a child.

[Rich46yo]

Originally posted by Bronk
That's your prerogative to fly at whatever alt. Although we were discussing designed alt.
You must have taken a tap class as a child.

                               No, I never took any dance classes pal. I just look out the window often, of B-26s at 12,000', and never see anyone above me. Or, hardly ever. Whats the designed alt of all these fighters we see chasing their tails in furballs?

                               But even if they did climb 29s to alt? Hey how about that? A bomber in AH that finally has an advantage.

[Bronk]

Originally posted by Rich46yo
No, I never took any dance classes pal.

Just an obsevation the way you dance around the subject at hand.

 I just look out the window often, of B-26s at 12,000', and never see anyone above me. Or, hardly ever.
 Well it's a game so people do gamey things. Things like fly well below designed alts, dive bomb with heavies, stick stir, ect, ect, ect.  I applaud you for trying to fly in a some what historical fasion. But the not see fighters above 12 k is bs. The fight in LWO yesterday between 19 and 1 there was a plenty. If however you attacked an undefended base, you had less chane of seeing any.


Whats the designed alt of all these fighters we see chasing their tails in furballs?

Well now Einstein look at the AC people most whine about. The La7 and the spit XVI, gee what were they designed to do? Ohh thats right low to mid alt combat.

                               But even if they did climb 29s to alt? Hey how about that? A bomber in AH that finally has an advantage.

Well now that the  tap dance is over and you are back on the subject at hand. That's right they do have  an advantage at alt lets explore that.
1. 3 mulligans= self explanatory
2. slaved laser guns= self explanatory
3. 360 mph at alt= almost impossible to climb and catch you have to be up already to hope to engage them
4. f3= impossible to sneak up on
5. EZ mode bomb sight=might as well use laser guided it's the same.
5. 20,000 lb bomb load= If thats not self explanatory.

So yes if introduced perk it and perk it heavily. I'd say right along the 262 perk line. With an eny of about 3.