Author Topic: Spitfires in tour 110: Late war  (Read 7055 times)

Offline moot

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Re: Spitfires in tour 110: Late war
« Reply #165 on: April 06, 2009, 03:17:37 PM »
You keep ignoring the incredible fragility of Spitfires in AH as well.  They are possibly less able to take damage and keep flying than A6Ms as their wings pop off at almost the slightest hit.  The ease with with a quad .50 cal fighter can take out a Spit VIII, XIV or XVI with a burst that connects on a high deflection crossing shot is a very significant shortcoming of the Spitfire in AH and heavily limits their ability to be "ace of aces" mounts.
This would be a solid point but for the fact that the spit16 dodges as well as anything in the game.
No offense intended, but what are you guys smoking here?  The spitfire is the epitome of easy.  The whole gamut of the planeset is centered around it.   Damn right, it's better than the chog. 

As for why people rag on it.. It's like the '67 Lotus in GPL.  There's always some genius with a poop eating grin in one feeling good about beating everyone and generally ignoring the efforts others put in flying normal rides with actual quirks...  No reason to be surprised others will snub it every chance they get.  My personal extra beef with it is that it's a bland design.  Just pedestrian... no character, no danger, no thrill in flying it, nothing.  And come on.. Round elliptical wings?  Did they take that out of a care bears cartoon or something? I could go on.  :P
« Last Edit: April 06, 2009, 03:27:27 PM by moot »
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Spitfires in tour 110: Late war
« Reply #166 on: April 06, 2009, 03:23:20 PM »
This would be a solid point but for the fact that the spit16 dodges as well as anything in the game.
No offense intended, but what are you guys smoking here?  The spitfire is the epitomy of easy.  The whole gamut of the planeset is centered around it.   Damn right, it's better than the chog. 

As for why people rag on it.. It's like the '67 Lotus in GPL.  There's always some genius with a poop eating grin in one feeling good about beating everyone and generally ignoring the efforts others put in flying normal rides with actual quirks...  No reason to be surprised others will snub it every chance they get.  My personal extra beef with it is that it's a bland design.  Just pedestrian... no character, no danger, no thrill in flying it, nothing.  And come on.. Round elliptical wings?  Did they take that out of a care bears cartoon or something? I could go on.  :P

I believe the term you're looking for is "Boring"!
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Offline moot

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Re: Spitfires in tour 110: Late war
« Reply #167 on: April 06, 2009, 03:24:10 PM »
WRT the larger discussion, I don't think you're giving firepower enough consideration. It's not just that the .50s are inferior to the Hispanos, you also have to factor in the imbalance in ammo load for the XVI - you either go home early or are left with a grand total of two .50s. At that point the C-hog still has four cannons left with nearly half their ammo remaining. That is no mean difference.
Loaded comparison.  The chog has more 20mm than probably anything else in the planeset.  You should have been there back when small calibers could kill GVs.  On AKPizza, you could come off the CVs on the outer ring and easily rack up 30 kills on the ground fight below.  

The spit16 doesn't need tons of ammo.  It's nimble enough to allow the player to keep the nose exactly on target for easily at least as long as most other planes can, as opposed to e.g. heavier planes like the 109 or 205, or even the chog since it's a gorilla by comparison, and can't afford to pull lead so deftly and for so long, without bleeding its E.  Which the S16 can easily afford thanks to its lightweight.  It just gets right back fast enough to do it over again.


Shuffler - It's not just boring.. I personally dislike the plane itself.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2009, 03:25:52 PM by moot »
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Offline Kazaa

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Re: Spitfires in tour 110: Late war
« Reply #168 on: April 06, 2009, 03:30:11 PM »
Didn't the Spitfire Mk.16 have 21lbs of boost at wep? Our version is well gimp... :rofl



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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Spitfires in tour 110: Late war
« Reply #169 on: April 06, 2009, 03:45:11 PM »
This would be a solid point but for the fact that the spit16 dodges as well as anything in the game.
No offense intended, but what are you guys smoking here?  The spitfire is the epitome of easy.  The whole gamut of the planeset is centered around it.   Damn right, it's better than the chog. 

As for why people rag on it.. It's like the '67 Lotus in GPL.  There's always some genius with a poop eating grin in one feeling good about beating everyone and generally ignoring the efforts others put in flying normal rides with actual quirks...  No reason to be surprised others will snub it every chance they get.  My personal extra beef with it is that it's a bland design.  Just pedestrian... no character, no danger, no thrill in flying it, nothing.  And come on.. Round elliptical wings?  Did they take that out of a care bears cartoon or something? I could go on.  :P


I'll trust you are only referring to the cartoon Spitfire, not the real deal :)

The problem I have with the argument you are making against the cartoon Spitfire, is the game itself promotes the route of least resistance.  You, like myself and others prefer flying birds that take, for lack of a better way to say it, more work to fly and be successful in.  Although for as often as I've seen you land in a jet lately.....:)

The Spit is what it is in the game.  It's not far removed from the real deal in that it is easy to fly.  Folks find success in it quickly.  How many of those guys are still in Spits 3-4 years later in the game.  For that matter how many of them are still here at all. 

If there is one consistent thing about Spit drivers in the game, regardless of version, it is that they tend to try and fight.  And I believe that's the ultimate goal for most of us, that folks reach the point where the new guys start to learn to duke it out. 

So you take the Spit 16 out of the equation, then what?  Back to griping about Spit 8s or 9s?  Remove the Spit entirely.  Maybe the LA7 can be the gripe again.  I'd much prefer the Spit whines, to the LA7 whine.  At least the Spits aren't outrunning everyone at light speed.

Care bears indeed.  Jeez I hate it when you get your leather lederhosen on too tight and backwards!  ;)
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Offline thrila

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Re: Spitfires in tour 110: Late war
« Reply #170 on: April 06, 2009, 04:01:07 PM »
Didn't the Spitfire Mk.16 have 21lbs of boost at wep? Our version is well gimp... :rofl

25lbs, and you say love spits.... :D
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Offline moot

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Re: Spitfires in tour 110: Late war
« Reply #171 on: April 06, 2009, 04:07:57 PM »
Dan - I understand the historical aspect. I'm not arguing for the spit16 being perked (or maybe 1 or 1.5 perks max.), nevermind removed. And I'm not whining either, just answering the surprise at people not liking the spitfire.  I don't have any voodoo spitfire toys that I stab before going to sleep, I just genuinely dislike its design. As a designer I wouldn't feel satisfied with it, like when your creative juices are stifled by an employer who wants his gizmo designed in the most orthodox, efficient, cookie cutter way possible.

You can ask... I think it was Rollins, and a zipcode guy... 858626 I think, who rode along a couple of my jet sorties (edit - Zap rode along as well. I didn't fly totally balls out for that one to ensure he got to see a full sortie).  I trimmed the horde a lot, by flying the plane to its strengths, but there was just as much tnb dogfighting.  I know in total I ran into about half a dozen good sticks who I fought honestly, tnb for all the plane was worth.  The 262's a real anchor in knife fights, so the comparison isn't good.  Nothing compares to the spit's do-it-all character.

The game does favor the path of least resistance, but I really don't think it's the intention.  I can't imaging that more than a small minority of players would like less rather than more variety in the unfriendly skies of AH.  The closest thing I can figure would be desire for historical settings, e.g. bare metal USAAF stuff when you're flying luftwaffe.  
The way I see it, the spitfire, although admittedly as much part a parcel of the zoo as any other plane, might be the least (tho not by much either) exotic thing you could run into, as far as dogfighting goes.  It just doesn't have any unevenness to it.. It doesn't have any deep flaws or outstanding strengths.  It just flies around generically.  Like a zero without the featherweight good/bad aspects, like a P38's well-roundedness but without the twin engine/fowler flaps oddity, like a P51's stellar manners and crystal clear character but without the level flight acceleration and departure handicap... etc.  The nearest thing I could like the spitfire being is a Ki84, but even it's not just a spitfire with character, it's also got a totally different look.

That spitfire players tend to fight more than most is true, no question there. I have no problem with the guys who fly spits, it's their business.  I just don't like the plane itself.  It's an aberration in the zoo.. Or maybe it's a good solvent for everything else. I never meant to argue against its presence. I'd be sick of any plane seen as often as the spit.  I'm just especially sick of the spit because unlike the P51, it thrives on the rest of the planeset getting caught up furballing and begging to be walked all over... by that guy in the 67 Lotus.
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Offline Kazaa

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Re: Spitfires in tour 110: Late war
« Reply #172 on: April 06, 2009, 04:21:43 PM »
25lbs, and you say love spits.... :D

Erm ok wtf, why don't we have 21lbs of boost for our Spit16 in game!



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Offline Karnak

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Re: Spitfires in tour 110: Late war
« Reply #173 on: April 06, 2009, 05:25:04 PM »
Erm ok wtf, why don't we have 21lbs of boost for our Spit16 in game!
No such beast.  Spitfire MK XVI was either +18lbs or +25lbs boost.

Spitfire Mk XIV was either +18lbs or +21lbs boost, and given it is perked there is no reason we don't have it at +21lbs.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Spitfires in tour 110: Late war
« Reply #174 on: April 06, 2009, 05:26:59 PM »
Spitfire Mk XIV was either +18lbs or +21lbs boost, and given it is perked there is no reason we don't have it at +21lbs.

Would probably finally be worth it's perks then ;)
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Offline Kazaa

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Re: Spitfires in tour 110: Late war
« Reply #175 on: April 06, 2009, 08:19:16 PM »
No such beast.  Spitfire MK XVI was either +18lbs or +25lbs boost.

Was the 25lbs version later on in the war Karnak? Because I say give us the XVI with 25lbs of boost and perk it. Job done!



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Offline Karnak

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Re: Spitfires in tour 110: Late war
« Reply #176 on: April 06, 2009, 08:21:49 PM »
Was the 25lbs version later on in the war Karnak? Because I say give us the XVI with 25lbs of boost and perk it. Job done!
No, not really, but we don't need another perked Spitfire and doing that would lose us our pre-mid-1944 Spitfire LF.Mk IXe stand in.  Better is to leave it unperked as nobody has offered any valid reason for perking it yet, but raise the Spitfire Mk XIV's boost to +21lbs and make it actually worth the perks.
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Offline Kazaa

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Re: Spitfires in tour 110: Late war
« Reply #177 on: April 06, 2009, 08:39:19 PM »
No, not really, but we don't need another perked Spitfire and doing that would lose us our pre-mid-1944 Spitfire LF.Mk IXe stand in.

But, but, but, I want 25lbs of boost. :(
« Last Edit: April 06, 2009, 08:46:51 PM by Kazaa »



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Offline Karnak

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Re: Spitfires in tour 110: Late war
« Reply #178 on: April 06, 2009, 08:42:50 PM »
But, but, but, I want 25lbs of boost. :(
Bah.  +21lbs of boost in a Griffon 65 is better than +25lbs of boost in a Merlin 66!
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Offline Kazaa

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Re: Spitfires in tour 110: Late war
« Reply #179 on: April 06, 2009, 08:45:27 PM »
Just to be clear, we are both talking about the XVI, yeah ?

Spitfire MK XVI was either +18lbs or +25lbs boost.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2009, 08:49:52 PM by Kazaa »



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