The Perk Planes

[Staga]

Give Fariz a XIV and I'm going back to Bishland  

[RAM]

OK Zigrat...I agree with what you say, but for sure not at all.

LEt see. You say that up to 1942 Germany had better planes than Britain ,and I must agree.BUT (and in this discussion the but is a BIG one) the gap between British planes and German's was always a very little one, Me109E was better that SpitI, but not by much. Me109F waa better than SpitV but NOT by much. Fw190A was a nightmare for SpitV but SpitIX made again the gap a little one until the point that in mid 1943 SpitfireIX and Fw190A5 were regarded as equals.

When latewar came Britain produced the SPitfireXIV, a plane that far outclassed any German fighter it could find (range was a problem in history, but not in MA)...the gap was immense between German fighters and Spitfire XIV's performance..Germany lasted some 8 months in delivering a plane that could close that gap with the spit and at least to level the game against the P51, the Dora-9. Still if you see the numbers, Spitfire XIV is better in all regards than D9 except rollrate and range. IN ALL REGARDS!!!...

You say that latewar stuff was better in allied side, and that was the reason because they won the war. I agree, zig, It is a sound argument. But THIS IS NOT WWII!! this is a simulator in wich you fly against other planes! so to make it an interesting simulator you have to keep the planeset levelled or you'll end flying allied latewar stuff, and more if you perk low-numbers planes as Ta152 while you dont do it with P47M or Spitfire XIV.

The fun in Aces High is the multiplane environment, you find A LOT of different planes in the air. If Spitfire XIV isnt perked then you'll be flying against Spitfires all day long...

IF you want to keep all sides level in quality (which is the ideal for me), set a high level that wont be trespassed.

 P51D for me is the best plane for Main Arena right now. Put the perk level on it. For me a Fw190D9 is the equal of P51, better in some regards, worse in other regards, so let it in. Spitfire XIV is way better than both. Perk it. TempestV is better than both low in the deck but as you go higher its performance falls behind them (and not my that much). dont perk it. P47M is better at all altitudes...perk it...

And so on. Keep a balanced arena, bring newer Spitfires to put RAF level with LW ,USA, russiand and Japanese planes, but dont give ANY side a monster. Perk the monsters (all of them regardless production runs and regardless of inservice date). And keep the arena balanced.

Or you'll end killing this simulator.

[mx22]

Learn some manners RAM, don't tell people to shut up.
Just because you don't want to fly SpitXIV and have such an agenda against it, it doesn't mean other share that view. I want that plane and I don't see why you should be flying your Dora and I'm stuck with older models of Spitfire.
P.S. I'm still guessing where in my post I mentioned anything about Me262.

mx22

[RAM]

   

Originally posted by mx22:
Learn some manners RAM, don't tell people to shut up.

you tell ME that I must learn manners?...see this...
   

Originally posted by mx22:
Why should I settle for SpitVIII, a 1943 design, when you will be be flying late 1944 designs??? SpitXIV was introduced BEFORE Fw190D and just because it's good, it doesn't mean you should whine and not let me fly it.

you got the answer you deserved. You called me a whiner and an egoist. Who needs to leanr manners here?...

You want me to be rude?...here you go, sir...


   

Just because you don't want to fly SpitXIV and have such an agenda against it, it doesn't mean other share that view. I want that plane and I don't see why you should be flying your Dora and I'm stuck with older models of Spitfire.

Kid: MUM!!! I WANT THAT TOY!!!!

Mother: no, it is bad and will do bad to all the family

Kid: I DONT MIND!!! I WANT MY TOOOOOOOOOOYYYYY!!

Mother: the facts wont change even if you cry for a long time, that toy is bad for the family

Kid: BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!! I WANT MY TOOOOOOOOYYY!
   

P.S. I'm still guessing where in my post I mentioned anything about Me262.

Who said you did?
---------------------

I know this is quite rude, but I dont mind. I am simply not on the mood to accept answers like the one you gave to me. And as you were rude towards me, then I feel in the right to be rude towards you.



[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-14-2000).]

[Karnak]

Not really true Zigrat.  The XIV had the range to fly from England to the Swiss Alps and back.  After D-Day, Squadrons of Spitfires, including the XIV, operated from airfields in France.  The XIV saw quite a bit of combat, though not as much as the Fw190D-9, which had only to put up to find an enemy formation.

RAM, I think our disagreement comes from having a different view on the capabilities of the XIV.  I think it was a good, competitive 1944 fighter.  You think that it was the best WWII fighter.  If it were added as a non-perk plane, and proved to be as popular and imbalancing as you fear, I would most certainly join you in efforts to get it perked.  The problem right now is that we RAF fans have no competitive fighter.  Last night I saw 1 Spitfire the entire time I was on, and that one was dead about 20 seconds after I saw it (not by me).  I myself did not fly a Spitfire last night.  I put up in a 109F, 109G-10, Fw190A-5 and A6M5b.

I don't really want the Tempest MkV yet, because it is a fast BnZ aircraft armed with 4 20mm Hispano MkV cannon.  Off hand I don't know what the difference between the Hispano MkV and the Hispano MkII (that we all know and love) is.  I would guess that the Hispano MkV is improved though, given the Mk#.  I know that the Tempest performs differently than the F4U-1C, but regardless of the differences, they both would use the same kind of tactics: BnZing.  Thus I think that adding the Tempest would be like adding a 2nd F4U-1C (it might even be more like an F4U-4C).

Sisu
-Karnak

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Karnak:
Not really true Zigrat.  The XIV had the range to fly from England to the Swiss Alps and back.  After D-Day, Squadrons of Spitfires, including the XIV, operated from airfields in France.  The XIV saw quite a bit of combat, though not as much as the Fw190D-9, which had only to put up to find an enemy formation.

RAM, I think our disagreement comes from having a different view on the capabilities of the XIV.  I think it was a good, competitive 1944 fighter.  You think that it was the best WWII fighter.  If it were added as a non-perk plane, and proved to be as popular and imbalancing as you fear, I would most certainly join you in efforts to get it perked.  The problem right now is that we RAF fans have no competitive fighter.  Last night I saw 1 Spitfire the entire time I was on, and that one was dead about 20 seconds after I saw it (not by me).  I myself did not fly a Spitfire last night.  I put up in a 109F, 109G-10, Fw190A-5 and A6M5b.

I don't really want the Tempest MkV yet, because it is a fast BnZ aircraft armed with 4 20mm Hispano MkV cannon.  Off hand I don't know what the difference between the Hispano MkV and the Hispano MkII (that we all know and love) is.  I would guess that the Hispano MkV is improved though, given the Mk#.  I know that the Tempest performs differently than the F4U-1C, but regardless of the differences, they both would use the same kind of tactics: BnZing.  Thus I think that adding the Tempest would be like adding a 2nd F4U-1C (it might even be more like an F4U-4C).

Sisu
-Karnak

Hehe Karnak you are giving me more reasons to fear SpitXIV   range Up TO THE ALPS!!..

NOw to the matter, yes I understand RAF people's point of view. You want a spitfire that is more competitive than SpitIX. and I agree with you, just go and read my messages, I say to level ALL the forces to a standard, and then perk planes over that standard. I think that Spit VIII is a better plane thant Spit XIV, and I know there were LF and HF versions of Spitfires. I say, get a good spitfire, one that can fight the other planes!...but dont get the MONSTER the SpitXIV is.

I disagree with your point of view about the tempest, I think that is quite different in many regards to Corsairs...but you love Spitfires and I understand you wanting a better spitfire (although I think that the IX we have now is quite good indeed!)

[Nashwan]

The Hispano V was lighter than the Mk II, had a shorter barrel, lower MV and higher ROF.
Hispano Mk.II (130 g) 600 rpm  880 m/s  50 kg  
Hispano Mk.V  (130 g) 750 rpm  840 m/s  42 kg  
I remeber Pyro saying we wouldn't see the Hispano V until the Tempest arrived, so there is hope.

[SnakeEyes]

I heard that the first man to reach low Earth orbit was flying a Spitfire XIV.

------------------
SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[Torquila]

In my opinion i think the perk system would work great. Perk system= less Hos, because people woudlnt want to jepardise their score.

just my 0.02 pence

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Staga:
Give Fariz a XIV and I'm going back to Bishland  

Maybe Fariz would in that case come down from the space, when he has bit more speed to run with.

[juzz]

PERK THE Ki-100?! WTF!!! RAM YOU IDIOT!  

[BigJoe]

apparently I was lost in the shuffle whats a perk plane?  are points going to determine the pilots choice of planes?  If so you had better turn off those icons because if you don't, those early warbirds are gonna be chasing them all over creation and killing them.

[HABICHT]

hi all,
RAM, let RAF get their spit14, not perked.
but you brought up a nice thing to think about. in '44, '45 germans aircraft industrie
output was far down. but they were still able
to bring up some new planes, like D-9+ and the TANK series. oh my god, think of all the
jet designs which were ready to get into
production. like ta183, Me P1011, and the
go229 (it flew, yes it flew! but crashed due to engine failur).
but in AH, we don't have the problems. so why
not a ta152H-1&C, FW190d-XX in the air, TOGETHER with a SPTIT14+, 51H.....
but pls, only gombat prooved planes in WW2!.
so no f8f, f7f, or p80...

HABICHT

[juzz]

I thought the whole point of the "perk planes" was to have the "what if" planes(and vehicles) that were never available in big numbers during WW2, available to use in AH.

The only qualification should be that the aircraft was a production model by the end of 1945. Ie: No one-off prototypes.

"Service numbers", or "use in combat" should be irrelevant qualifications, as they unfairly advantage some countries over the others.

Remember that AH is not a WW2 recreation, it is a fantasy air combat game, using WW2 era aircraft and vehicles.

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by juzz:
I thought the whole point of the "perk planes" was to have the "what if" planes(and vehicles) that were never available in big numbers during WW2, available to use in AH.
.

So you wont perk P51H? nor P47M/N? nor SpitfireMK21? nor B29? nor IS-2?...

Then change the name of the sim to "allieds high".