Things Move Forward Why Don't You

[Kweassa]

"If the HTC empire lasts a thousand years, men will still say, "This, should be my only PC rig (without upgrades)".

- Kweanston Churchill, self-employed prime minister of Cynicism -

[iTunes]

There are multiple threads about the update on the bbs. There are multiple posts by unhappy subscribers having issues with the update. There are multiple posts by bbs contributers who are doing nothing more than slamming those unhappy subscribers. The majority of those contributers are using terms such as; "Whine" "Get over it" and smiles to display their contempt or opinion in relation to those unhappy subscribers. I can only conclude that this is not the place to have a discussion on the update due to those premises that I listed above.
The people that are having issues raised a valid argument. (Valid argument means that the premises they listed are strong enough to make their conclusion anything but valid)
However, on the other hand, a lot of the responses are either subjective or Intersubjective in nature and contribute nothing except raising people's personal emotions.
Maybe this is typical of online multi-player games?
Let's try and have a reasonable discussion without the juvenile responses that contribute zero to the overall issues at hand.

[Banshee7]

No, he wasn't, he was attacking all of those for whom the update is causing no problems as being unemployed, living in mom's basement using a high end computer purchased by mommy.  That is bullsoup.

No, I was attacking those that do not offer help and only tell how great AH runs on their computers.  It's called reading comprehension, sir.

[A8Jaraxl]

There are multiple threads about the update on the bbs. There are multiple posts by unhappy subscribers having issues with the update. There are multiple posts by bbs contributers who are doing nothing more than slamming those unhappy subscribers. The majority of those contributers are using terms such as; "Whine" "Get over it" and smiles to display their contempt or opinion in relation to those unhappy subscribers. I can only conclude that this is not the place to have a discussion on the update due to those premises that I listed above.
The people that are having issues raised a valid argument. (Valid argument means that the premises they listed are strong enough to make their conclusion anything but valid)
However, on the other hand, a lot of the responses are either subjective or Intersubjective in nature and contribute nothing except raising people's personal emotions.
Maybe this is typical of online multi-player games?
Let's try and have a reasonable discussion without the juvenile responses that contribute zero to the overall issues at hand.

I do not disagree with you iTunes, however I would like to say this.

There is a right way and a wrong way to address an issue. Getting on here and "Crying/Whining" is not the correct way. Making a mature and intelligent comment that is not assaulting HTC, an "I QUIT RAWR"  temper tantum post, is the RIGHT way.

If i came to the boards and said this.

"Guys I am having problems running the new patch. I do not have the money to spend (or do not want to spend the money in this direction) to upgrade. Is there any information or help that anyone can direct me to in possibly solving this issue? If not are there any plans in the works that will allow me to eventually run the game on my current system. Here are my specs.
List off specs."

It is funny because the posts I have seen like this have been given many helpful responces. BaldEagle and several others have taken a lot of time to post good information that if someone that really wanted to fix their problems they could. I have offered assistance ( I have been in IT since the 90's) Out of most that complain I have only had 2 that took me up on it.

Now do you think if I posted that I would get the responce that 90% of these  unhappy customers that you are defending got? Do you think their post was a legitimate problem or just an outlet for them to whine, troll, or otherwise cause problems for whatever satisfaction it might get them?
I am pretty sure that if you sit and think about it rationally you will see that, the only people that have been badgered are the ones that have done nothing BUT complain. They have not tried in the least to fix or address their problems in any manner of a constructive way. They simply want to aggravate others as they feel they have been aggravated by this patch (which they had plenty of time to prepair for).

So who do you really think is to blame, the ones that whine without fixing the problems. Or the ones that badger them because we are simply sick of the whining without any intent to fix the problem?

[Kweassa]

There are multiple threads about the update on the bbs. There are multiple posts by unhappy subscribers having issues with the update. There are multiple posts by bbs contributers who are doing nothing more than slamming those unhappy subscribers. The majority of those contributers are using terms such as; "Whine" "Get over it" and smiles to display their contempt or opinion in relation to those unhappy subscribers. I can only conclude that this is not the place to have a discussion on the update due to those premises that I listed above.

Been there, done that.

Things were exactly like this when AH2 beta first came out.

After a few months, the whiners just shut up and got a better system, so the odds are, at least the old community members know exactly how to treat this kind of tantrum - with a right dose of cynicism.

The people that are having issues raised a valid argument. (Valid argument means that the premises they listed are strong enough to make their conclusion anything but valid)
However, on the other hand, a lot of the responses are either subjective or Intersubjective in nature and contribute nothing except raising people's personal emotions.
Maybe this is typical of online multi-player games?

Not really. It's only typical of people who don't plan ahead. Most other MMORPG enthusiasts save a lot of money ahead in preperation for new versions or upgrades, just like in the way us AH players save up for new joysticks or rudders.

Let's try and have a reasonable discussion without the juvenile responses that contribute zero to the overall issues at hand.

This is as reasonable it gets. In the end, the logic is simple.

1) I have a crappy computer, and I can't run new version = get a new system
2) I have a good computer, and I still can't run the game = see what's foogin' with the system. Check for spywares or viruses or resource hog stuff

3) I want to go back to old version, because for reasons either 1) or 2), I can't play it = sorry, not going to happen, ever.

[PJ_Godzilla]

No, I was attacking those that do not offer help and only tell how great AH runs on their computers.  It's called reading comprehension, sir.

Oh, that's nice.

I run AH2 on a bootcamp partition of my Screamin' Mac Mini. Did I say before what a rockin' machine it is?

Let me tell you, Sir, this new version runs FAN-F***IN'-TASTIC!!!

And the water looks great... six kills in about 2 hours Saturday - it was the best day in my Noob life ever.

Let's all take a moment, and Banshee, you should join us, to compliment HT on what a great game AH2 is and on how well it runs with Mac/Bootcamp/Windows!!!

Uh, I forgot what that faint buzzing was I heard earlier.

[iTunes]

Hello there

Can you point out to me in my post where  I am defending unhappy customers? Maybe my post was too vague or maybe ambiguous?

On to your main points. Are you saying that the unhappy subscribers are not really unhappy? Or are you saying that 90% of them deserve the responses that we are discussing due to what they wrote and how they wrote it?
Do you for example, have a list of contributors who have had issues but are now resolved? Otherwise, how can you write: "We are simply sick of the whining without any intent to fix the problem?"
You and I both know (I'm assuming) that most of the the unhappy subscribers are making statements and not claims, such as: "Game is rubbish, computer does not work" It's up to the people who can reason to do so.

[shppr01]

My system is about six years old and I dont seem to have any problems except for the fact that I cant run the his res stuff yet (need a new vidcard ). The only thing I found was I needed to adjust things again until I liked them ,That and dump the beta test one once the patch came in . That alone made my deck run better. Im not bragging or complaining , just wanted to point out that you might want to try to delete the beta if you havent already
Just another 2cents in the kitty

[A8Jaraxl]

Hello there

Can you point out to me in my post where  I am defending unhappy customers? Maybe my post was too vague or maybe ambiguous?

On to your main points. Are you saying that the unhappy subscribers are not really unhappy? Or are you saying that 90% of them deserve the responses that we are discussing due to what they wrote and how they wrote it?
Do you for example, have a list of contributors who have had issues but are now resolved? Otherwise, how can you write: "We are simply sick of the whining without any intent to fix the problem?"
You and I both know (I'm assuming) that most of the the unhappy subscribers are making statements and not claims, such as: "Game is rubbish, computer does not work" It's up to the people who can reason to do so.

This is true they are making statements and not really "claims". But do you expect these type of statements to be accepted with cheers? Most the ones that I have read to this point go on to attack HTC, attack the idea of the upgrade as a whole, attack anyone that says anything other then "this game sucks, my PC can not run it. They claim the game should not better itself in this manner. For the ones that say their computer does not work, most do not give the system specs or any viable information that could be used to fix their issue or even give us a chance as a community to help them.

Any reasonable person could see they are just whining for the sake of whining. If they truly had a problem they wanted to fix they would give the information needed to help fix it. No they do not want a fix, they want their way.. this is the difference. They are infact unhappy, this is not the point. The point is that they are unhappy but not willing to try and change their situation. Give me computer specs, give me a budget you can work with, I will give you a computer you can play AH2 with this new patch on.

As far as the rage-quit posts, it is an attempt to cause drama and undue aggravation. Nothing more. If the game had not changed i am willing to bet, many would have quit anyway within a few months that found this patch to be a good excuse to just do it earlier.

[kilo2]

This is true they are making statements and not really "claims". But do you expect these type of statements to be accepted with cheers? Most the ones that I have read to this point go on to attack HTC, attack the idea of the upgrade as a whole, attack anyone that says anything other then "this game sucks, my PC can not run it. They claim the game should not better itself in this manner. For the ones that say their computer does not work, most do not give the system specs or any viable information that could be used to fix their issue or even give us a chance as a community to help them.

Any reasonable person could see they are just whining for the sake of whining. If they truly had a problem they wanted to fix they would give the information needed to help fix it. No they do not want a fix, they want their way.. this is the difference. They are infact unhappy, this is not the point. The point is that they are unhappy but not willing to try and change their situation. Give me computer specs, give me a budget you can work with, I will give you a computer you can play AH2 with this new patch on.

As far as the rage-quit posts, it is an attempt to cause drama and undue aggravation. Nothing more. If the game had not changed i am willing to bet, many would have quit anyway within a few months that found this patch to be a good excuse to just do it earlier.

I think the majority I have seen has been the opposite of what you describe. The people who run it fine, and fanboys, pounce on anyone who has a disparaging remark about the new update. 

[Gary26]

     The bottom line is, if everyone who can play the game just fine now, traded places with those that can't, the people "whining" would be everyone who is playing the game just fine now.  I don't want to wish ill on anyone but some day you may be on the short end of the stick and I just wonder how you would feel when you received the same posts your dealing out to your fellow AH gamers.  If you have a spare card or whatever for someone, or some helpful advice please share.  If you only have sarcasm and negative comments just keep them to yourself.  AH is in itself a great game but the players and the AH community make it exceptional.

(Image removed from quote.)
(Archangel)

My feelings exactly. In these hard times not every can afford the custom built super machines that others have. Ya 10 years is a long time to save for a new PC. I had money saved for a new house at one point in my life, but a driver that couldnt see the fireman in reflective fire gear in the middle of the day while at a car accident changed all my plans for that money. Even the last version of AH was still by far better than any massive multiplayer game out there. IL2 has great graphics, but i feel it lacks the playability as this one. Even on outdated machines people were still able to play AH and enjoy themselves. I understand things have to move forward or get left behind,(WW2 online), but some of you should take it easy on the people that put other needs in front of a new machine. Im sure someone out there somewhere has been left behind because things have changed and they couldnt change with them. (like shawk still rockin the mullet).

[A8Jaraxl]

I think the majority I have seen has been the opposite of what you describe. The people who run it fine, and fanboys, pounce on anyone who has a disparaging remark about the new update. 

Really?...please define what you mean by disparaging remarks?

Do you mean things like "HTC does not care about us/customer support!"  <-crying
or how about "this game sucks now, the new patch is crap/ I QUIT"  <- whining

Nope, those are in no way constructive disparaging remarks, they are however attempts to create drama to get their way..IE just like my 7yr old does, throw a fit to see if you get desired reaction.. would you like to see some examples of good constructive disparaging remarks?... Great, I thought you would! Let us see how people react to mature posts that are having issues shall we...

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,270733.0.html
Ahh here is a great one. Twentyfo is having issues playing the new patch on his PC. No crying or whining. He states his intentions in a mature way and even asked for help..   lo and behold, we bent over backwards to help him. I do not know Twentyfo from the man in the moon. But he needed help and I took the time to do so, as many others did.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,270742.0.html
While these issues are not as important as others, it was a well written post and mature. No crying and whining he stated his questions in a straight forward manner and his concerns in a way that does not "attack" anyone. WOW double     he did not get flamed or badgered.. imagine that.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,270129.0.html
This is my favorate example. In This post Yarbles starts out with a moderately good first post. He failed to list any system specs, so we are kinda screwed in trying to help him, but notice he does not get flamed until later in the post where he stats attacking/blaming HTC's customer support. Support that many tried to tell him was there if he only looked. Then a bunch of excuses and return arguments. It is clear and even Hi-Tech joined in to prove that some people just want to complain for the sake of complaining. Now, at this point he starts catching it from all sides. Is it because of Fanboys, I think not. I have never posted on these forums except within the last few days, because I would like to offer my assistance to those that would take it getting their PC running.

But while I am here, yes I will take up the cup of "WAKE UP and figure out how to better communicate if you want help, or any other type of change or recognition". Because while I am taking my personal time in trying to help others get up and running. That want to get up and running I, and pretty sure many other, are tired of these posts that do nothing but lay blame on everything else but where the fault actually is.

 I love WW2 aircraft, but am not a technical buff on their abilities and systems. I served the Corps for 10 years, 5 of which where working on Harriers, so I have some knowledge about Combat aircraft and ECM from spending time with all the pilots. I do not log A lot of hours in the game, and if I could not play it my world would not end like a 13 yr old that just lost his WoW account. So Fanboy, no, rational thinker who can see the difference between a constructive post and WAAAAAAAAAAAA., most certainly.

[A8Jaraxl]

My feelings exactly. In these hard times not every can afford the custom built super machines that others have. Ya 10 years is a long time to save for a new PC. I had money saved for a new house at one point in my life, but a driver that couldnt see the fireman in reflective fire gear in the middle of the day while at a car accident changed all my plans for that money. Even the last version of AH was still by far better than any massive multiplayer game out there. IL2 has great graphics, but i feel it lacks the playability as this one. Even on outdated machines people were still able to play AH and enjoy themselves. I understand things have to move forward or get left behind,(WW2 online), but some of you should take it easy on the people that put other needs in front of a new machine. Im sure someone out there somewhere has been left behind because things have changed and they couldnt change with them. (like shawk still rockin the mullet).

Hey Gary,
I can totally understand where you are coming from. I am a disabled Marine, myself. And I do not have a great deal of money to spend on computer parts. My machine is pretty well built because while I was active duty it was always a project in work.  However if you where able to play the previous version of this game on your PC with any reliablity then I am 98% certain that within a few patches, some help from us on the boards that have offered it, and little research on your part; Your system will still be able to run this game in a playable manner. We are talking computer power here.

People person preference is another story. Some have been able to play the new version but did not like it. That's fine and they are completely entitled to their opinion. Even stating such is fine as long as it is done in a mature way. The great thing about freedom of speech, you are free to express yourself, and so are we. Crying will not normally be bet with hugs and kisses in an on-line setting. Honestly why should it, when many of us know that it is not that bad, could be worse, and we can probably get you up and running if you so choose to actually do it (not you personally, just example).
So sure there will be those few that very well might be left behind. out of those few, I will venture to say 75% could have stayed if they so chose to (again talking computers). The ones that left for personal preference.. well HTC can not make everyone happy all the time...and no one should expect him to. If you want to leave, leave.. but don't expect a James Brown but drama filled exit to get standing ovations.

[kilo2]

Really?...please define what you mean by disparaging remarks?

Do you mean things like "HTC does not care about us/customer support!"  <-crying
or how about "this game sucks now, the new patch is crap/ I QUIT"  <- whining

Nope, those are in no way constructive disparaging remarks, they are however attempts to create drama to get their way..IE just like my 7yr old does, throw a fit to see if you get desired reaction.. would you like to see some examples of good constructive disparaging remarks?... Great, I thought you would! Let us see how people react to mature posts that are having issues shall we...

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,270733.0.html
Ahh here is a great one. Twentyfo is having issues playing the new patch on his PC. No crying or whining. He states his intentions in a mature way and even asked for help..   lo and behold, we bent over backwards to help him. I do not know Twentyfo from the man in the moon. But he needed help and I took the time to do so, as many others did.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,270742.0.html
While these issues are not as important as others, it was a well written post and mature. No crying and whining he stated his questions in a straight forward manner and his concerns in a way that does not "attack" anyone. WOW double     he did not get flamed or badgered.. imagine that.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,270129.0.html
This is my favorate example. In This post Yarbles starts out with a moderately good first post. He failed to list any system specs, so we are kinda screwed in trying to help him, but notice he does not get flamed until later in the post where he stats attacking/blaming HTC's customer support. Support that many tried to tell him was there if he only looked. Then a bunch of excuses and return arguments. It is clear and even Hi-Tech joined in to prove that some people just want to complain for the sake of complaining. Now, at this point he starts catching it from all sides. Is it because of Fanboys, I think not. I have never posted on these forums except within the last few days, because I would like to offer my assistance to those that would take it getting their PC running.

But while I am here, yes I will take up the cup of "WAKE UP and figure out how to better communicate if you want help, or any other type of change or recognition". Because while I am taking my personal time in trying to help others get up and running. That want to get up and running I, and pretty sure many other, are tired of these posts that do nothing but lay blame on everything else but where the fault actually is.

 I love WW2 aircraft, but am not a technical buff on their abilities and systems. I served the Corps for 10 years, 5 of which where working on Harriers, so I have some knowledge about Combat aircraft and ECM from spending time with all the pilots. I do not log A lot of hours in the game, and if I could not play it my world would not end like a 13 yr old that just lost his WoW account. So Fanboy, no, rational thinker who can see the difference between a constructive post and WAAAAAAAAAAAA., most certainly.

That's just it you don't have to have a problem to dislike the update. I do have a problem running the update that deals with my frame rate bouncing all over the place when I get into a fight (with max detail). Spent a lot of time trying to fix it. Took a lot of advice from others still no dice. So I can see from "the whiners" point of view. What I have stated is I dont see the point in the update to graphics that in the gaming industry are substandard. Now I have seen people post similar statements and get waylayed by the fanboys. If there is people posting about how awesome it is then it should be ok to post that you dont agree with that. And posting threats to quit is nothing new. Seen it for the time I have been on AH. I agree with you its a weak thing to post. But I can understand there frustration.

I never called you a AH fanboy by the way.

[BiPoLaR]

ive always heard, if it isnt broke, dont fix it