If I Like RAF Aircraft

[juzz]

Also the current Spitfire F.IX is about 10mph too fast at all altitudes(IMO). If people think that it's slow now...

[Pongo]

Yawn
"
mitsu has 166 kills and has been killed 15 times in the Spitfire Mk IX."
thanks Mitsu...saved my but there.
and that is in half a tour.

And
Please look back up this thread for these little gems.
poor misunderstood me...
"Certainly lets get a late Spit Ix or Spit XVI.
I would even say the 4 HS load out should be there.(if the negatives that kept it off of line machines can be modeled as well.)
"

One of the spit camp
"
The day we get the MkXVI instead of the MkXIV is the day I cancel my account. Sorry, but giving us the MkXVI would just be giving us a plecebo. "See, its got a late mark number, so its got to be equivilent of a late war plane, go get slaughtered in your new MkIIIV, er, XVI". The MkXVI is a MkIIIV with an Packard built Merlin engine. Its performance is not better than the MkIX in any way. If they aren't going to give us a late war Spitfire, fine. But don't insult my knowledge by giving me a plecebo with a high Mk number.
Sisu

"
please go review the rest of the top of this thread.
very reasonable post followed by a guy named Nashwan
"Pongo can you find one of these threads where people have claimed the Spit XVI is as big an improvement as the the 109G10 is?
It's an interesting comparison you make, because the IX and G6 are contemporaries, as are the XIV and G10. Of course we have the G10 already....
"
Well I dont know the details but certainly 25mph on the deck is a nice boost and will make it so Mitsu doesnt get killed a few of those 15 times...

That was my starting point in this whole pathetic discorse. If there is an intermediat plane between the IX(early) and the spit XIV that gives the spit some more legs and a cut down rear canopy and brings it up to late 1944 standard surely lets start with that.
AND IN CANADIAN MARKINGS!
I can just see it. We will get this plane next release (1.4) and everyone will say "whos ^&%$^&^ idea was it to give the spit 25mph on the deck. Its unstoppable now! and you dweebs will all point to me...and funked will choke to death laughing and hand MX 10 bucks for getting me to fight his battle for him...
Can we close this.
Pongo
Spit lover.
FW pilot.

[juzz]

Pongo - would you prefer a Mk XVI with 150 octane fuel to a Mk XIV then...?  

[mx22]

Pongo,

So far I have seen nothing from you that would have proved that SpitXIV will be uber plane. So instead of complaining, give us all a proof. Maybe then, and only then, I'll say that you right and we don't need SpitXIV in AH.

mx22

[Nashwan]

 

Originally posted by Pongo:
Yawn
very reasonable post followed by a guy named Nashwan
"Pongo can you find one of these threads where people have claimed the Spit XVI is as big an improvement as the the 109G10 is?
It's an interesting comparison you make, because the IX and G6 are contemporaries, as are the XIV and G10. Of course we have the G10 already....
"
Well I dont know the details but certainly 25mph on the deck is a nice boost and will make it so Mitsu doesnt get killed a few of those 15 times...

From the AH performance tables:
109G6...335mph at SL  390mph at 22k ft
109G10..370mph at SL  450mph at 22k ft

From memory
Spit9.....335mph at SL  408mph at 28k ft
44 Spit9..360mph at SL  408mph at 28k ft

The Spit gains 25mph at low level, nothing at altitude. The 109 gains 35mph at low level, 60mph at altitude. Seems to me the G10 is a huge improvement over the G6, while the 1944 Spit is a minor improvement over the 1942 Spit.
Pongo, however you try to rationalise it, it is simply unfair restricting RAF aircraft to 1942 or earlier. Allowing tuned versions of 1942 planes isn't really going to even things out.

[Pongo]

 

Originally posted by mx22:
Pongo,

So far I have seen nothing from you that would have proved that SpitXIV will be uber plane. So instead of complaining, give us all a proof. Maybe then, and only then, I'll say that you right and we don't need SpitXIV in AH.

mx22

MX

I see no evidence that there is anything wrong with the Spit Ix. So until you prove it quit complaining.
The only evidence that the 14 would be baaaad news I need was provided by a tedios  person that goes by the handle MX22
"Conclusions- All-round performance of the Mk XIV is better than the Mk IX at all heights. In level flight it is 25-35 mph faster and has a correspondingly greater rate of climb. Its manoeuvrability is as good as a Mik IX. "

How will MX twist this one around...the world wonders...

[mx22]

Pongo,

Next time replying, do me a favor. Read the whole post, not the end. If you read the post you'll see, that it climbs just a bit better then SpitIX, it turns as good as SpitIX and it's speed is higher then SpitIX. For this reason, SpitXIV was recomended over SpitIX. Btw, it's a new version of Spitfire, do you really expect it to be of worser perfomance then SpitIX.
As for evidence why SpitIX should be "replaced" by the newer Mk in AH, read my posts above. I'm tired of telling you that SpitIX is too slow. It's not even only me now who says it. But wait, Pongo reads only stuff that supports his POV... No wonder...
Btw, still waiting from you a prove that SpitXIV would unbalance arena. Summary that you gave me in your post, is nothign else, but statement that says SpitXIV is better then SpitIX.

mx22

[Pongo]

I just think that the XVI would be a better incremental step.

[mx22]

 

Originally posted by Pongo:
I just think that the XVI would be a better incremental step.

Ok I understand what you mean now. But as someone above said, mkXVI is nothign else, but the same SpitfireIX airframe with the same licence built Merlin engine. I guess Brits were picky about small things like that and decided to give it a new Mk number. I also don't think it justifies giving us a late production MkIX/XVI for the reason, it would not give RAF planes enough additional performance to stand up to real 1944 designed plane such as BF109G10 and FW190D. Yes it would be a bit faster and a bit better climber, but it's not a match to SpitXIV and BF109G10. Also note, that report above said climbing speed is only marginally better in SpitXIV, that probably means BF109G10 will hold an edge over MkXIV in vertical.

mx22

[Pongo]

We are all complaining that the spit is too slow. It cant escape. Well it could escape more with 25mph more on the deck and its supperior dive.
Dont worry. I am not pyro. I dont decide. But you are giving me excellent ammo to discredit what you want. The spit XVI would be a nice addition to the game as it stands. The Spit XIV would be an excellent limited release plane. Dont be supprised if thats how this shakes out in the end.

[Karnak]

Yes, we should get an incremental step because thats what the LW guys got, oh, wait...the LW guys jumped right to the end of the line and got a Bf109G-10, which for all intents and purposes is a Bf109K-4.  They're also crying over and over for the Fw190D-9 and nobody is coming around a telling them that the aircraft would be imbalancing, even though most people here also state that it would easily beat a MkXIV.

So, why do German planes get a free ride from the AH community?

Pongo, the difficulty with flying the MkIX isn't killing a single opponent, its the fact that once you commit, you have to win or die.  There is no egress.  Thus you end up with a bunch of guys lynching the dweeb who is flying the Spitfire (because after all, he is cheating by flying such an easy aircraft) because there is no way in hell that he can escape.  If we were just flying against 1942 planes, we could have a shot at escaping.

Pongo, do you believe that in 1942 the Spitfire MkIX was so ahead of its time that it was still fully competitive in '44 and '45?

Why do people keep confusing the MkXIV with an ultra-late war plane like the Ta152?  I will be extemely disappointed in HTC if it ends up as a special "reward" plane.  The Mk F.21 would be a good selection for the "reward" version of the Spitfire.  The MkXIV entered service before the Bf109G10, Bf109K-4, Fw190D-9 and Me262.  The F.21 was a contemary of the Ta152.

I am getting really bitter about people who fly Bf109G-10s, Fw190s and F4U1-Cs calling the Spitfire and its pilots names.  These aircraft played a significant part in winning and securing our freedoms.  One American player even stated that he hated the Spitfire and wished that it had never been made.

In AH nancy boys do not fly Spitfires, they fly Bf109G-10s, Fw190s, P-51Ds and F4U1-Cs.  Thus my new signature.

------------------
Real men fly inlines, nancy boys fly radials.

Sisu

[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 06-14-2000).]

[Pongo]

Sisu.
You have to ignore alot of what I have said to make those statments.  Good luck with your spit XIV guys. Like I said, Ill be there with ya when you get it.

[mx22]

Karnak,

Why I disagree with Pongo on his view on Spitfire MkXIV, I can't agree with the method you chose to fight for it. You have to understand why people so afraid of new later Spitfires. It's not because they don't want you and me to have a better plane, but because someone sometime ago said plane will unbalance arena. You just have to prove that plane is far from uber.

mx22

[This message has been edited by mx22 (edited 06-14-2000).]

[rfa]

I really don't understand this Pongo character.

The best spitfire late in the war was the MkXIV.  It was a plane that could compete with Doras, and 109Ks.  

The MkIX is a great all around plane, but it is at a severe disadvantage when facing very late Luftwaffe birds.  The MkXVI, like someone said, was a Packard powered Spitfire with a bubble canopy.  It was "better" then the MkIX, but it still would have trouble with 190Ds and 109Ks.

I really don't understand your problem Pongo, I reall don't.

Get over your spitfire bias.  Then talking about very late war ETO planes, the MkXIV should be mentioned.  When modeling a 190D or 109K, a MkXIV SHOULD be modeled.

...and don't give me this crap about MkXIVs offbalancing the arena.  We have them in WB, and in no way is it a offbalancing factor.  

Spitfire guys, don't settle for anything else that late in the war!  

------------------------------
S/L rf-a,
No. 303 (Polish) Sqn
"Northolt Wing"

 

[rfa]

...and Pongo, the MkXIV is not uber, nor does it have a handicap.  

It should be there becasue we are talking about late war planes. ...and it would be nice to see a RAF plane with the speed advantage over its main rivals.