Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.

[gatt]

Verm,
I was trying to figure out how the Tiffy will perform. AFAIK (I dont have any good book about Typhoons) she should be a real dog above 15K and with some troubles during high speed dives. Dunno about roll rate but ... hmmm.
IMHO, the Hog should be a formidable foe for the Typhoon, probably better. Any hint?

Gatt
4°Stormo CT
 

[crabofix]

 

Originally posted by Vermillion:
Ok

Third, the C-Hog is not our only "rare" aircraft. The N1K2-J had a production of less than 300 aircraft.

Over a 1000 built mr Verm. Chech your data again, please.
  Crabofix

[mx22]

 

Originally posted by funked:
Pappy, 470 mph in an F4U-1C?  B.S.

Wooden wings on a Spit?  B.S.

Can't exceed 450 mph in a dive?  B.S.

Hell a Spit was dived to Mach 0.92!

Come on Pappy, you watched too much Baa Baa Black Sheep in the 70's.

Study up and come back son.

Wise words of a true Spit driver I'm all the way with you on this one funked.

mx22

[gatt]

Please, give the word "rare" the right meaning: in this thread rare should be something related to the total type output and the time the kite fought.

[mx22]

 

Originally posted by Karnak:
Mx22, the Malcolm Hood actualy gave better visibility to the rear sides than the Bubble canopy, plus the bubble canopy reduced the lateral stability of the XIV, which exerbated a problem it already had.  The armor plates behind the pilot bean that 360 degree visiblity is pretty unatainable.

Sisu

Karnak,

Bubble canopy makes more sence in a dogfight as a simple glance back will give you much more information, then a glance in a Malcolm Hood canopy (back view is filled with armor plate, to see anything behind you, you have to manually slew view either to the right or to the left and even then you'll see back view from one side only).
I say we have enough of Spits with poor visibility, time to give us something that would greatly enhance our SA

mx22

[Vermillion]

Crabofix, check your data  

There were over a thousand N1K(*)-J's "George's" built. Most of those were the earlier N1K1 model, not the N1K2 model we have here in AH.

There were also a N1K3, N1K4, and N1K5 models in low very low production and prototypes available when the war ended.

I will post the exact breakdown on "George" production when I get home today.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Desperately trying to figure out why Kamikaze Pilots wore helmets"

[Vermillion]

Gatt here are the links to a couple of different threads where the performance of the Typhoon was discussed. Its mostly conjecture based on the information we know, but I figure it too be pretty close.

Brits Rejoice, the Typhoon IB is coming !! http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/001957.html

The Typhoon's performance. http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/002258.html

There have been some others, but these two are the best.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[Duckwing6]

HAHAHAHA Spit drivers complaining about rear view  
Hey guys that's a genuine HOG driver complaint  

[Sorrow[S=A]]

Hmm..  Verm you got the fastest planes on deck very wrong, the pony is NOT a fast plane down there. However it actually nudges out the La-5FN by 15 mph at 6k if it does 405 mph at 5k. and it will be about 10 mph faster than the G10 with MW50 wep on.

[Vermillion]

What did I say wrong Sorrow?? I honestly don't understand.

I didn't say the Pony was the fastest on the deck (But if it isn't what is??). I do remember saying that the Typhoon (374mph) would be faster than the Pony (370mph) which is true.

I also said it was faster than any other aircraft by 5-10mph on the deck (meaning at SL, since I only have SL and max speeds on the Typhoon).

From the AH charts at Sea Level with WEP

• P-51 (370mph)
• Bf109G10 (365mph)
• La5fn (360mph)
• F4U-1D (360mph)
• Fw190 (350mph)

You must be looking at speeds at some other altitude.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[indian]

This thread was started by someone who does not fly online so why we arguing with this person anyway. He knows nothing about the arena fighting that goes on now.

------------------
Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
  1st Aces High Trainer Corps.
Home of The Allied Fighter Wing A.F.W.
A.F.W. Homepage

[Nashwan]

Can someone please explain this 470mph dive limit on the Spitfire XIV. I was told in a long argument on another forum that the spit couldn't exceed 470 in a dive because of problems with it's ailerons. I thought this would be TAS, and therefore not THAT much of a problem, but can someone confirm this?

[Ripsnort]

Just checking in to see  how the BBQ  is going, Karnak, you need 'turning' yet?  I don't like my meat burnt on one side.  

Nashwan, you mean the "Barbie-fire" ?  That's because  Ken is  in the backseat, more weight equals greater diving power.

------------------
Ripsnort(-rip1-)
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~ XO
Aces High Training Corps
JG2 "Richthofen"
 
"Experience is a hard teacher because she
gives the test first, the lesson afterwards"

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-23-2000).]

[Skorpyon]

It is interesting how a simple subject can be twisted to become so complicated.  Screw the statistics, they are meaningless due to the totally uncontrollable list of influencing factors (vulch kills, pilot skill, deaths by "spiral takeoff crash syndrome", blah, blah, blah.).  Screw how many were made, etc, etc, as obviously the plane set represents a wide variety of late and early issue, and low number issue, planes, and will continue to do so with coming versions.  The only reasonable comments are those based on people who have engaged a 1-C in aerial combat, off the ground.  No plane 1 or 2 ping kills me any where close to as often as a 1-C will, even  190 or N1K, EVER.  The only real question in regards to the F4U-1C is this.  Are its 4 20mm guns modeled accurately in comparison to the 4x20 on the N1K and the 190,etc... in essence, were the U.S. 20mm cannons that much more powerful than the 20's of the axis powers, or any other plane that might have been available with this configuration?  Leave the 1-C in... it is the same plane as the 1-D basically... just verify the accuracy of the gun modeling.  It is such a simple concept.  

[Karnak]

Ha.  Know nothing, heh?  I don't think it works quite that way, but you're welcome to your own opinion Indian.

My views have been stated, and have been pretty reasoned and balanced.  There are those who have made, simple, black and white type statements on both sides.  I don't think that either is a reasoned response.  My opinion has been moved towards a more favorable view of the F4U-1C overall.  I still don't like the airplane, but I don't object to its presence any longer.  It seems that people need to learn to avoid playing its game.

My computer is mostly working now, and should I be able to resolve the problem I'm having with my joystick and throttle I'll be joining you guys, at least for the two week trial.  I'm interested to see how much has changed online since the beta (I'm well aware of how offline stuff has changed, e.g. aircraft performance).

Nashwan, I don't know who told you that the Spitfire XIV could only hit 470 in a dive, but they're wrong.  As was stated by funked above, the Spitfire dove to mach .92.  It wasn't the wings, airelons, rudder or elevators that failed either, it was the propeller (prop drag anyone?).  As modeled offline, most of the fighters seem to be overly fragile where G stress is concerned (not that this statement is related directly to Nashwan's comment).  I should note that I haven't G-stress tested all of the fighters.  Back to Nashwan's comment, a fighter that could make 448 in level flight certainly wouldn't fail at only 22 mph faster, if that were the case the fighter couldn't hope to servive even a shallow full power dive.  The Spitfire's airelons do get heavier, as the speed goes up above 350ish the roll rate drops dramaticly.  But as the speed goes up lateral stability goes up as well and the strong torque on the Spit XIV is compensated for.  The Spitfire didn't suffer from bad compressability like the P-38, A6M Zero and Typhoon did, and so could pull out of higher speed dives than they could (I'm not that familar with the compressability of other fighters).  One thing to note is that the roll rate on the Spitfire was improve throughout its career, so that a Mk XIV would out-roll a Mk I by quite a bit (particularly to the left   ).  The 109 did not improve in this way and a 109E rolled almost exactly the same as a 109G or K.  The Fw-190 could easily out-roll any Spitfire at any speed.

Ripsnort, I'm getting done, but not quite yet.

Sisu