Author Topic: Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.  (Read 12006 times)

Offline weazel

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #60 on: March 22, 2000, 03:29:00 PM »
 Continuing this thread is pointless-we have two types of players here,those who prefer to fly in a "historic" environment and the "Quake" types who grab the plane with the biggest guns. The two types don`t mesh well and until we get a historic arena this will be a problem. Until then I think the diameter of the rounds should be decreased in size,I have viewed film of snap shots from the hog that should have little chance of hitting,but do and cause catastrophic damage. I especially hate the times you blow the wing off a quakehog and as it pinwheels out of control the pilot sprays wildly and kills you,it lessens my enjoyment of an otherwise fine sim.

Offline Vermillion

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #61 on: March 22, 2000, 03:37:00 PM »
Introduction to Statistics? Don't need it   I am an Engineer with quite a bit of Statistical experience, including graduate classes in Statistical Applications to Experimental Design (hardest damn class I have ever had). Which means how do you apply statistics to an experiment (ie the arena) which has many unknown independent variables (vulching, style, experience, etc etc) that affect the outcome.  Thats why I am of the opinon that the statistics don't apply very much because there are too many unidentified factors effecting them.

Another point that is being missed is that the F4U-1C and the Fw190A8, are not similarly armed. Hispano Mk II cannons, are quiet a bit different than MG151 cannons.  The Hispano's are one of the best 20mm cannons of the war, while the MG151's are quite average. Individually, the MG151 is about 78% as effective as the Hispano. Overall, the Fw190A8 is only about 83% as lethal as the F4U-1C. Oh btw Lethality is another hobby of mine   And I will be happy to show you my equations, calculations, and assumptions.

Also, the F4U-1C and the Fw190A8 have very disimlar handling characterisitics. The F4U-1C was originally suppose to be a carrier borne aircraft, and therefore its comparitive (note in comparision to the 190) low speed handling characteristics were much better. The Fw190 also has a really nasty accelerated stall the -1C doesn't have. Furthermore the -1C (or any Corsair variant) has always been know to have excellent turning abilities for an aircraft of its size, but for the fact that it bleeds E like a stuck pig. It doesn't take much intelligent flying to have more E than a Spit V sitting on the spawn point.

All these things combine to make it easier to fly in a vulching mode. So more people fly it on these missions than the 190. Therefore, most 190 missions are fought in air to air situations, where the -1C missions are flown in vulch mode.

THATS why the -1C has such a better Kill/Death ratio than the 190. And those are just a few of the unrealized independent variables.



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Offline mx22

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #62 on: March 22, 2000, 03:45:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak:
Mx22, yeah, but the bubble canopy Spits are UGLY. (IMHO)  They took the prettiest plane and turned it into one of the ugliest.

Sisu
B]

Yes, but bubble canopy will give you almost 360 field of vision. Currently back view is a big problem for Spit drivers.

mx22


Offline Karnak

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #63 on: March 22, 2000, 04:02:00 PM »
Minotaur, but where does that leave those of us who don't like the Corsair?
I've noticed a large ammount of anti-Spitfire sentiment here, how would you feel if it was the Spitfire MkXIVc instead?  It would have much the same effect on the arena (same exact armament coupled with superior performance).

I am not really interested in paying $30.00 a month for a Corsair sim.  $30.00 a month adds up to a lot of money for a game so that game/sim had better offer me a vareity to choose from.

My point is this:  Keep the F4U-1C Corsair, but I hope over time to see some other high performance, non-American, aircraft to challenge it.

Mx22, the Malcolm Hood actualy gave better visibility to the rear sides than the Bubble canopy, plus the bubble canopy reduced the lateral stability of the XIV, which exerbated a problem it already had.  The armor plates behind the pilot bean that 360 degree visiblity is pretty unatainable.

Sisu

[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 03-22-2000).]
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Offline AKDejaVu

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #64 on: March 22, 2000, 07:22:00 PM »
OK.. point 1.

Karnak.. if you'd like information on the game, feel free to ask for it.  What shouldn't be done is to sit and argue with people that are currently paying to play the game.  Get in there and try it out.. even if only for 2 weeks.  Then feel free to gripe all you want.

It amazes me that 3 people posting in this thread have not played AH since the F4u-1C came out.

That said.. some interesting statistics from those posting in this thread.  How about K/D from those that have been vocal:

F4u-1D......3.56
F4u-1C......3.185629
BF 109G-6...3.148378
P-51D.......2.42
Fw 190A-8...2.153153
La-5FN......2.072727
Spit-IX.....1.761134
N1K2........1.452555
Spit-V......1.271111
P-38L.......1.230769
BF 109G-10..1.169811
B-17G.......1.121951
B-26B.......1.067416
C.205.......0.936416
BF 109G-2...0.823539
BF 109F-4...0.5

A sampling of 30 pilots all posting in this thread.  Low and behold it is evident that there aren't many of them contributing to these lopsided stats.  I wonder if the problem could be that the newbies are flying the spit more than the f4u... or that they are assuming that the F4u-1D must be better than the 1C because it was made later.

I also find it interesting that the average K/D in buffs was greater than 1:1.  Strange thing is, this is the one stat that was pretty consistant amongst all pilots.

AKDejaVu

Offline AKDejaVu

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #65 on: March 22, 2000, 07:48:00 PM »
Also.. an interesting stat:

The 30 Pilots that posted in this thread account for 1/9 of all F4u-1C kills.  That said, 5 of them account for 1/12th of them.

If there are 10 more pilots matching those stats, then there is an excellent explanation for lopsidedness.

BTW.. if you add Torque into this mix.. you have 6 pilots totalling 1500 kills with the F4u-1C.. while only accounting for 280 deaths.  I don't know who the other aces in the F4u are.. but I'm sure you'll see statistical bending on more than one more pilot's behalf.

AKDejaVu

Offline AKDejaVu

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #66 on: March 22, 2000, 07:55:00 PM »
And.. to show how skewed stats can be.  1 Pilot has over 45% of all BF 109G-6 Kills.  He only accounts for 18% of all the deaths.  The BF 109G-6 has an overall record of 1.27:1.  This pilot has a record of 3.75:1 while all others combined have a ratio of .81:1.

These statistics are not indicative of aircraft performance.  They are easily swayed by 1 pilots commitment to flying 1 aircraft the best he can.

AKDejaVu

Offline Pappy

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #67 on: March 22, 2000, 10:52:00 PM »
Great job of Hog deffense, I want Indian to be my blood brother.
There was 976 C models produced and flying way before the end of war on imperial japan, production durring war time of some of these other varriants as production durring the war is what should be questioned, hell europe was a tourist attraction when the C was still blowin up tojo's.
They didn't make all hogs with cannons because cannons are very large, very heavy and the addition of the weight from them and their ammo load limited the Corsairs range and bomb and fuel payload and therefore limiting its true performance, ya know in the real sense not the get up and shoot online sense.
Most planes didn't carry 4 cannons because they didn't have the Size and bellybutton to pull them around and 4 of them would shake most birds to pieces, hell they would acctualy slow you down when you fired them.
The hogs cieling was 41 thousand feet in here at 20k it barely climbs or turns and that wasn't even its optimal performance altitude ,it was 27k.
Its top speed "level" was as fast or in most cases faster than other fighters of WWII at 470.
It had the strongest wings of any fighter by design for its carrier landing and operations in here they fall off if the wind gusts.
It could out roll and turn with anything at medium and high speeds and had multistage flaps to help with modest turning at slower speeds.
I don't know what quake is but do know the hog did Many things better than Most planes, not all better than one but it was a winning combination.
Spits.... gime a break the spit would turn its wooden wings to mulch trying to dive, roll and highspeed turn with the hog, its top speed was 450 and it could not exceed this in a dive like the 500mph+ hog in a dive.
The N1K1 was a large fighter by japanese standards and keep in mind they got radial engine technology from us prior to WWII, that makes it a candidate for cannons in here it has 4 cannons and they kill you just as fast if you get in front of them and rightfully so.
The hog like the P47 was big and very heavily armored and could lose several cylinders and still fly, in here they are not given this respect.
My "ratio is higher" when I use energy fighting instead of chasing cars at 50 feet with the masses, I always use the C model for this and use the N1K1 for alts bellow 15k where it will kill C's all day if they give up thier altitude or speed.
But all things considered I wouldn't change the flight models, they are better than anything out there and what all the fluster is really about is what it might have been like if hogs would have flown against planes in europe, make a PAC arena and you'll all be safe from the C model Corsair because the pilot accounts and the real aircrafts performance tell the truth about this large, fast, leathel bird of prey.
Rattle off attributes and abilities from other production fighters and the hog will blanket them all with its overall talents.
The C was one ......"SUPER"..... fighter, the germans are mad they didn't think of it, 190 you are clear for trap, good luck on your first carrier landing.
Thats my 30 bucks worth love it or don't,
"show me a war hero and I'll prove he's a Bum" Pappy Boyington.

Offline Toad

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #68 on: March 22, 2000, 11:06:00 PM »
Verm and DejaVu:

Please don't confuse these guys with facts.

They have already made up their minds.

 
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Offline indian

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #69 on: March 23, 2000, 12:02:00 AM »
Pappy you forgot something it was the longest  serving fighter of any kind on active duty in any great numbers. Think it was finally retired in 1972.(have to look that one up again)

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Offline indian

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #70 on: March 23, 2000, 12:07:00 AM »
The 20mm are not the same as in some other games. The Hog has a higher rate of fire with its 20mm than the nik1 so more rounds are being fired. It also fires faster then the P38 does, three different types of cannons and the germans make four types each fireing at a different rate. I think the spit has the same guns as the hog does.

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Offline Hristo

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #71 on: March 23, 2000, 12:21:00 AM »
Pappy, Germans are not mad because they did not think of cannon Hog first. They are mad because their best planes are not modeled here.

200 cannon Hogs produced ? If that is enough, then 262 deserves its chance to get here 7 times more  


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[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 03-23-2000).]

funked

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #72 on: March 23, 2000, 12:37:00 AM »
Pappy, 470 mph in an F4U-1C?  B.S.

Wooden wings on a Spit?  B.S.

Can't exceed 450 mph in a dive?  B.S.

Hell a Spit was dived to Mach 0.92!

Come on Pappy, you watched too much Baa Baa Black Sheep in the 70's.

Study up and come back son.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 03-23-2000).]

Offline Torque

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #73 on: March 23, 2000, 02:08:00 AM »
Great stats AKDejaVu, can Natedog buy you a beer, Informed me thx.  

Quit the whinage!    


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[This message has been edited by Torque (edited 03-23-2000).]

Offline Vermillion

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Ok, lets talk about the F4U-1C Corsair.
« Reply #74 on: March 23, 2000, 06:33:00 AM »
**Looks into his crystal ball**

Ahhhh it dont' matter none. All this crap will end shortly after the next version is introduced.

The Typhoon will easily displace the -1C as king of the vulch birds, and will even do it better.

Hell.. I might even fly it exclusively myself for a while, I need to pad my stats a little  

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