Author Topic: Bf 110c  (Read 5865 times)

Offline GScholz

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Re: Bf 110c
« Reply #75 on: June 30, 2013, 12:09:16 PM »
There were more, but still less than a hundred. Essentially all C-4b were converted to C-7 in early 1941.
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Bf 110c
« Reply #76 on: June 30, 2013, 12:21:42 PM »
When HTC overhauls the 110 series I hope they add more variants. It would be nice to have:

Early BoB C-4
Late BoB C-4b
1941 C-7 for Barbarossa
1941 E-3 for Barbarossa
late 1941/42 F-2 (I really want this one)
1943 G-2 with more ord/gun options
 
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Bf 110c
« Reply #77 on: June 30, 2013, 01:04:33 PM »
When HTC overhauls the 110 series I hope they add more variants. It would be nice to have:

Early BoB C-4
Late BoB C-4b
1941 C-7 for Barbarossa
1941 E-3 for Barbarossa
late 1941/42 F-2 (I really want this one)
1943 G-2 with more ord/gun options
 
That is a more granularity that we're likely to get, more than any other aircraft has, even the Bf109 and Spitfire.  Seeing as we lack the Spitfire Mk II or Bf109E-7 for the late BoB I think the Bf109C-4b can be dispensed with.

Proposal:

Bf110C-4: BoB
Bf110C-7: Barbarossa
Bf110F-2: For GScholz and 1941/42
Bf110G-2 with more options: More options are always better
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Offline Zacherof

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Re: Bf 110c
« Reply #78 on: June 30, 2013, 01:31:50 PM »
That is a more granularity that we're likely to get, more than any other aircraft has, even the Bf109 and Spitfire.  Seeing as we lack the Spitfire Mk II or Bf109E-7 for the late BoB I think the Bf109C-4b can be dispensed with.

Proposal:

Bf110C-4: BoB
Bf110C-7: Barbarossa
Bf110F-2: For GScholz and 1941/42
Bf110G-2 with more options: More options are always better
Not to mention 190A3, and one of the G's(G5??) :bolt:
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Bf 110c
« Reply #79 on: June 30, 2013, 01:33:11 PM »
That is a more granularity that we're likely to get, more than any other aircraft has, even the Bf109 and Spitfire.  Seeing as we lack the Spitfire Mk II or Bf109E-7 for the late BoB I think the Bf109C-4b can be dispensed with.

Proposal:

Bf110C-4: BoB
Bf110C-7: Barbarossa
Bf110F-2: For GScholz and 1941/42
Bf110G-2 with more options: More options are always better

I could live with that ;)
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline GScholz

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Re: Bf 110c
« Reply #80 on: June 30, 2013, 02:23:02 PM »
Seeing as we lack the Spitfire Mk II or Bf109E-7 for the late BoB I think the Bf109C-4b can be dispensed with.

I'd rather add the Spit2 and E-7 ;)   It's not as if they need to make a different 3D models.
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Offline JUGgler

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Re: Bf 110c
« Reply #81 on: June 30, 2013, 02:31:08 PM »
:aok :rock

 :D

Midway, I'm gonna try and teach you something here!
 Almost every single engagement in AH follows the same path, the same manouvres and same goals. We all know if all things equal "A" should defeat "B" on a mathematical basis, IE: me is a spit 16 will beat me in a JUG.

 There are basically 3 levels "as I see it" of players in AH.

The 1st being the most numerous and highest percentage are basically new to compitent. These I would guess populate AH in the 80 percentile. In this group there are every level from terrible to very very good.

The 2nd level comprising about 10% those who honestly have trancended from the 80% and at times can be unbelievable able. These are the folks who have achieved the next level of understanding and control. These folks are usually quite aggressive and to come across them can be quite shocking. Sometimes these folks show a tendency to "blind aggressiveness" placing themselves "consistantly in losing situations, albeit at times winning them in spectacular form, these type of victories feed them and kind of motivates even more disadvantaged encounters to feed their rising egos that are in a race with their rising skill. These folks' ego is slightly larger than their ability, but make no mistake "they are able".

The 3rd level is populated by the likes of Grizz, Bruv, Skyrock, Kazaa, Kappa, Soulyss, Delirium, Bighorn, Dedalos, Levi, Suns, Stang, AKAK, WetRat, TonyJoey etc etc, many many more I fail to remember, sorry. But these folks have a significant understanding of the game quite beyond the 2nd level crowd. They usually have shed their 2nd level ego and are now quite pragmatic about the game. These guys don't fall for tricks, they dot their Is and cross their Ts consistantly. The 2nd level folks can beat these guys once in a while, but not consistantly. These guys are the ones that frustrate you and never never fall for the "magic". Ironically to beat them means you must play their game and beat them at their game, cause their game is ultimately the best and most correct game. I learned this lesson when I started dueling Grizz and Bighorn. I just couldn't get them to fall for any trick or misdirection only when I tried to emulate their style did I have any success against them and only rarely, in other words the best chance I had against them was to fight like them  :aok  Also almost to the man, these guys are NOT braggards <-- this comes with experience.

I bring this up to try and show you where I think you are or were when I played. I think you are in transition from 1 to 2. I also think your primarily "sticking to one ride" has slowed your progress. I doubt anyone here would deny your ability in the spit, but you short change yourself by not moving away from it and is one of the reasons you fail against the "mighty 110" <- :rofl :rofl

Now lets get down to the 110 spitfire showdown. My 110 never beat your spit, I never out turned your spit. I OWNED your mind  :t. There is 1 consistancy I've found in 1st level players and it can be manifested in almost any situation, that being "over confidence in plane disparity", meaning if someone thinks they are in a better ride, they are prone to over confidence, this flaw can and is manipulated by those who know it. Before I stopped playing I would say I was trying to transition from level 2 to level 3, The phsycology of the game was very interesting to me. I found thru the type of plane I chose and through small changes in flight characteristics ie merge, type of reversal etc I could foment over confidence in my opponent and this I used against them (you). You see what you are saying in this thread proves that you still lack a fundamental understanding of "what could happen" compaired to what "should happen". Your over confidence in your plane and your ability in said plane is your undoing. Your inability to "close the gap with your heros shows clearly where you are in this triad of levels. When I played I took on all comers no matter what they were or how many there were, but it wasn't blind aggressiveness, I knew if I was in a JUG and merged with 4 spitfires there was only one advantage I had and it was significant. I knew all those spittys were sure I was nothing but cannon fodder and this was my advantage. If the fight ended with me in the tower yet I had eaten 1 or 2 spits, lol who ultimately was victorious?

There is sooo much to this game, if you think no one can get in your head thru it than you will never advance further than where you are now.

Change your ride and have fun. The #s on the stats page mean very little unless you have found a way to fight yourself in the same ride, same alt and same speed  :aok

110>twit16   :neener:



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Offline Midway

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Re: Bf 110c
« Reply #82 on: June 30, 2013, 02:39:49 PM »
 :confused:


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Offline Zacherof

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Re: Bf 110c
« Reply #83 on: June 30, 2013, 02:40:10 PM »
I'm level one!!! :banana: :banana: :rock
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Offline Denniss

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Re: Bf 110c
« Reply #84 on: June 30, 2013, 02:48:12 PM »
39 C-7 were built, four by Gothaer Waggonfabrik and 35 by MIAG. Basically bomb-enabled C-4 with 601P engines and capable of carrying two 500kg bombs.

Offline GScholz

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Re: Bf 110c
« Reply #85 on: June 30, 2013, 03:07:26 PM »
New built perhaps. The earlier C models were converted to C-7. In January 1941 the Luftwaffe had about 150 bf 110s with 601P engines. The Es would later be converted to Fs.
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Offline Denniss

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Re: Bf 110c
« Reply #86 on: June 30, 2013, 05:54:52 PM »
That why I used built, not converted. Many of those 601P-equipped Bf 110 were also the C-5 recons as they both needed speed and alt performance for risky recon missions.
I have not heard about E->F conversion by just exchanging the engines, due to the cooling system change this may have been some more work.

Offline RotBaron

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Re: Bf 110c
« Reply #87 on: June 30, 2013, 06:14:58 PM »
Who:   It is not  :confused:

It is: REREAD.

 There is so much useful information given to you here. Open your eyes/ears/mind, and close your mouth. Seriously, I'm not trying to be mean to you when I say that. It's just the old saying, you can't hear/listen when you're talking.  

Morfiend, others and even your nemesis here have attempted to help you, why I'm not sure, after all I'm sure they've (as was noted) tried before.  Are you still turning nose down?...


Anyhow thanks for the info gentlemen, I'm going to reread, and then reread again.

Very useful to me  

Big :salute
« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 06:16:47 PM by RotBaron »
They're casting their bait over there, see?

Offline Wmaker

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Re: Bf 110c
« Reply #88 on: July 01, 2013, 06:28:08 AM »
I guess I should have chosen my words slightly differently but...


???

No idea what you're talking about.

Saying "pet" planes I guess I should worded it better. But you've very quickly told people question the flight models of the Spits to get proof that anything is wrong (and rightly so) but here you consider that its ok to cast doubts on the 110 fm based on operational history without any kind of discussion regarding the physics itself.


The fact that the Bf110C-4b was the Luftwaffe player's mount of choice in BoB scenarios in AH1, over the Bf109E-4, in direct contradiction to historical capabilities.

Well I could easily chalck that to the fact that 110 rarely enjoyed the intiative in the engagements they got it due to the way they were used in BoB, and this would go into "a yes-no yes-no" very quickly. All I'm going to say though that there are several things that can affect on relative performance AH vs. real life and that the best way to start find out if something is wrong is doing testing the with the AH example of a plane and comparing it to the real life data instead of operational history and pilot anecdotes. For example talking about the operational enviroment, Id say Mosquito wouldn't be quite as celebrated combat aircraft as it is today if it would have had to go against 8th AF escort fighters and bombers as a German heavy fighter while on the other hand Me410 would have a lot better reputation if would have been flown by the Allies.


HTC did, in fact, reduce the responsiveness of the Hurricanes when they were updated to AH2 standards.  If that will happen with the Bf110s remains to be seen, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

Yes they did. And if they change the flight model of the 110s I won't be surprised either given that they have already updated several flight models along with the 3d-models. I'm not saying there can't be anything wrong with the 110 flight models. I'm saying that if some claims that something is wrong they should define what they think is wrong and prove it with testing against data.

My previous post came out a bit too harsh and I'm sorry for that but the point of it remains the same.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 07:53:52 AM by Wmaker »
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Offline Debrody

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Re: Bf 110c
« Reply #89 on: July 01, 2013, 06:53:10 AM »
Well written, Jug.
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