Author Topic: #MAGA  (Read 8529 times)

Offline CptTrips

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Re: #MAGA
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2018, 09:29:52 PM »
There has been many times I’ve taken no damage (with or without collision), took some reasonable damage (with or without collided message) and times I took all the damage etc... the footage was shot both online and offline play.

I think I got you now. 

We made the assumption your were talking about difference in collision detection due to lag. A common complaint.

You are saying that even when both clients detect the collision, the damage model is not as fine grain, and detailed as you want, sometimes leading to inconsistent differences in the levels of damage between the two aircraft.

You might have a point there.  Those videos looked very nice. 

:salute

 


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Offline pembquist

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Re: #MAGA
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2018, 09:54:32 PM »
I personally don't think the shortcomings of the way collisions are handled are a problem however I don't think that it is the most perfect way of doing it, it is probably the most perfect of the achievable systems but the fact is it is possible to maliciously ram another airplane without incurring any damage. I don't think this is a problem but it happens unintentionally a fair bit and that leads to whining from players who both do and do not understand the collision model. A more perfect collision system would take into account that not all collisions are created equally and would try to mitigate the more frustrating ones. I once, in the interest of science, rammed some bombers quite deliberately. It wasn't particularly hard and if the collision mechanism excluded collisions that for example involved aircraft that weren't visible in the front view for at least .25 seconds before impact these bogus kills would have not happened. I am not saying you should do this I am saying that it isn't impossible but it is complicated.

So the status quo is fine as far as I am concerned.
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Offline JOACH1M

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Re: #MAGA
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2018, 10:00:48 PM »
I think I got you now. 

We made the assumption your were talking about difference in collision detection due to lag. A common complaint.

You are saying that even when both clients detect the collision, the damage model is not as fine grain, and detailed as you want, sometimes leading to inconsistent differences in the levels of damage between the two aircraft.

You might have a point there.  Those videos looked very nice. 

:salute
My apologies for not explaining it better.  :salute


But yes. It’s things like that might make the game look and feel a lot better.
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Offline caldera

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Re: #MAGA
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2018, 07:36:32 AM »
Uhhh quite sure many times on their screen and my screen both showed planes colliding many times. I know for a fact from thousands of 1v1’s that is the case majority of the time.

The fault of the algorithm is that damage is not ever consistent for either player. So many times I get rammed and instantly killed while other player flys off in harmed. When I get the message that they “collided with you”.

Also did you even look at the film link I posted? There is no reason we can’t have a collision system like that ingame.

My guess would be that they also got rounds into you.  I've sometimes collided with planes, but killed them with gun fire.  They may not look like they have a guns solution on your end but just as you don't see the collision, you don't have an accurate picture of their relative position.

Another factor is that AH3 doesn't have the sound of the rounds hitting you like AH2 did.  Sometimes you hear one ping or even none at all. 
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 07:41:48 AM by caldera »
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Offline mako04

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Re: #MAGA
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2018, 08:07:48 AM »
Ever feel like a post has been hijacked?  :noid 

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Offline Shuffler

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Re: #MAGA
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2018, 10:19:14 AM »
I generally do not collide. When I do I just take it as part of the game. We are fighting in close proximity to eachother. Things will happen.
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Offline ONTOS

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Re: #MAGA
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2018, 12:35:11 PM »
Fiat G55 serie 1 , 3 20nn, 2 12.7 machine guns and 2 160 kg bomb, slightly faster than the C 205, plus she is a beautiful bird.

Offline JunkyII

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Re: #MAGA
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2018, 01:21:50 PM »
AH's collision model is the perfect solution for a game in which players all over the world play on a single server in Texas.
2 people using LAN would show all the same problems in the collision model as Joachim is describing.
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Offline lunaticfringe

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Re: #MAGA
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2018, 01:29:10 PM »
I think you should made it MAHGA

and I think the future of this post will travel to the wish list
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Offline bustr

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Re: #MAGA
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2018, 01:33:42 PM »
Krup used the same IL2 video as Jo back around 2014 to attack Hitech and try to pull players out of AH to IL2. And he gave the lack of a similar detailed damage graphics modeling as one of his reasons for not flying in AH. It's human nature to try to hurt someone by assuming the mantle of a righteous victim avenger when you feel hurt and rejected. It's easy with AH since one individual is AH, and that is Hitech. In the past when AH had numbers, the selling point was not graphics, it was the magic of hundreds of players fighting at the same time.

Both IL2 and WT have in essence a secondary game entertainment action film taking place called "damage model". It's quite extensive and detailed for a reason, lack of numbers. When you don't have numbers and large scale activity taking up the attention span of the customer, you have to fill in everything with detail. Right down to how you kiss the ground. Like how console games are neon eye candy worlds while the real action is not much different than 38 years ago when you paid 25 cents a go in a game center. Run, jump, left, right, gunsight on the other dudes face, blow the sucker away. All in 3D orgasmic eye candy crack cocaine while the underlying shootemup has not changed.

As for the AH collision function that rewards you destruction when you never saw your plane touch the enemy's plane. It kills me only when I try to pull my plane too close to the enemy I'm fighting. When I'm trying to be clever and slip past him by the skin of my teeth thinking I'll win by gaining angles first. There is ACM in an air combat simulator, then there is trying to be clever in a mosh pit called an airplane shootemup computer game. Personally what sucks, you are trying to avoid getting too close and you watch the weenie fighting you pull in too close. Then you loose your wing no matter how hard you were working to avoid a random collision just like that. Why didn't the function see I was doing everything to avoid triggering it while the weenie pulled his nose in to me and flew through me? That happens maybe once a tour and I may get towered once or twice the rest of the tour taking the risk of getting close to gain a kill.

Though, if I spend a tour hopping into every low and slow furball I can find, my random collisions go up becasue everyone one is flying late war monsters on the deck like WW1 biplanes. And we are all getting really close. Some of the biggest complainers about the collision function looked to me over the years to spend most of their time in the middle of those WW1 biplane style combat arcade sessions. And many were not happy with the graphics while they were stuck looking at it waiting to hit the ground to get back in the tower. Shades of IL2 and it's in flight damage model movie to entertain you until you hit the ground.
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: #MAGA
« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2018, 03:18:12 PM »
Krup used the same IL2 video as Jo back around 2014 to attack Hitech and try to pull players out of AH to IL2. And he gave the lack of a similar detailed damage graphics modeling as one of his reasons for not flying in AH. It's human nature to try to hurt someone by assuming the mantle of a righteous victim avenger when you feel hurt and rejected. It's easy with AH since one individual is AH, and that is Hitech. In the past when AH had numbers, the selling point was not graphics, it was the magic of hundreds of players fighting at the same time.

Both IL2 and WT have in essence a secondary game entertainment action film taking place called "damage model". It's quite extensive and detailed for a reason, lack of numbers. When you don't have numbers and large scale activity taking up the attention span of the customer, you have to fill in everything with detail. Right down to how you kiss the ground. Like how console games are neon eye candy worlds while the real action is not much different than 38 years ago when you paid 25 cents a go in a game center. Run, jump, left, right, gunsight on the other dudes face, blow the sucker away. All in 3D orgasmic eye candy crack cocaine while the underlying shootemup has not changed.

As for the AH collision function that rewards you destruction when you never saw your plane touch the enemy's plane. It kills me only when I try to pull my plane too close to the enemy I'm fighting. When I'm trying to be clever and slip past him by the skin of my teeth thinking I'll win by gaining angles first. There is ACM in an air combat simulator, then there is trying to be clever in a mosh pit called an airplane shootemup computer game. Personally what sucks, you are trying to avoid getting too close and you watch the weenie fighting you pull in too close. Then you loose your wing no matter how hard you were working to avoid a random collision just like that. Why didn't the function see I was doing everything to avoid triggering it while the weenie pulled his nose in to me and flew through me? That happens maybe once a tour and I may get towered once or twice the rest of the tour taking the risk of getting close to gain a kill.

Though, if I spend a tour hopping into every low and slow furball I can find, my random collisions go up becasue everyone one is flying late war monsters on the deck like WW1 biplanes. And we are all getting really close. Some of the biggest complainers about the collision function looked to me over the years to spend most of their time in the middle of those WW1 biplane style combat arcade sessions. And many were not happy with the graphics while they were stuck looking at it waiting to hit the ground to get back in the tower. Shades of IL2 and it's in flight damage model movie to entertain you until you hit the ground.


Wow.

Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline Shuffler

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Re: #MAGA
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2018, 04:47:50 PM »
Krup used the same IL2 video as Jo back around 2014 to attack Hitech and try to pull players out of AH to IL2. And he gave the lack of a similar detailed damage graphics modeling as one of his reasons for not flying in AH. It's human nature to try to hurt someone by assuming the mantle of a righteous victim avenger when you feel hurt and rejected. It's easy with AH since one individual is AH, and that is Hitech. In the past when AH had numbers, the selling point was not graphics, it was the magic of hundreds of players fighting at the same time.

Both IL2 and WT have in essence a secondary game entertainment action film taking place called "damage model". It's quite extensive and detailed for a reason, lack of numbers. When you don't have numbers and large scale activity taking up the attention span of the customer, you have to fill in everything with detail. Right down to how you kiss the ground. Like how console games are neon eye candy worlds while the real action is not much different than 38 years ago when you paid 25 cents a go in a game center. Run, jump, left, right, gunsight on the other dudes face, blow the sucker away. All in 3D orgasmic eye candy crack cocaine while the underlying shootemup has not changed.

As for the AH collision function that rewards you destruction when you never saw your plane touch the enemy's plane. It kills me only when I try to pull my plane too close to the enemy I'm fighting. When I'm trying to be clever and slip past him by the skin of my teeth thinking I'll win by gaining angles first. There is ACM in an air combat simulator, then there is trying to be clever in a mosh pit called an airplane shootemup computer game. Personally what sucks, you are trying to avoid getting too close and you watch the weenie fighting you pull in too close. Then you loose your wing no matter how hard you were working to avoid a random collision just like that. Why didn't the function see I was doing everything to avoid triggering it while the weenie pulled his nose in to me and flew through me? That happens maybe once a tour and I may get towered once or twice the rest of the tour taking the risk of getting close to gain a kill.

Though, if I spend a tour hopping into every low and slow furball I can find, my random collisions go up becasue everyone one is flying late war monsters on the deck like WW1 biplanes. And we are all getting really close. Some of the biggest complainers about the collision function looked to me over the years to spend most of their time in the middle of those WW1 biplane style combat arcade sessions. And many were not happy with the graphics while they were stuck looking at it waiting to hit the ground to get back in the tower. Shades of IL2 and it's in flight damage model movie to entertain you until you hit the ground.

I know a guy who was over at IL2 and texted me... he got excited as he found a nickle on the ground. Excellent graphics... he said it looked just like one.
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Offline captain1ma

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Re: #MAGA
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2018, 04:55:21 PM »
would love to see more planes. lots of them. maybe even a Korean jet arena hehehehe. I know a guy!!...............

Offline mako04

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Re: #MAGA
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2018, 06:29:18 PM »
Yes to the Fiat! "Fiat G55 serie 1 , 3 20nn, 2 12.7 machine guns and 2 160 kg bomb, slightly faster than the C 205, plus she is a beautiful bird."  also carried a torpedo.
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Offline Max

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Re: #MAGA
« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2018, 06:40:13 PM »
I know a guy who was over at IL2 and texted me... he got excited as he found a nickle on the ground. Excellent graphics... he said it looked just like one.

 :headscratch: