Author Topic: Beyond Visual Range Air Combat dynamics... (Read 3347 times)

DeeZCamp · « **Reply #90 on:** July 28, 2001, 08:04:00 PM »

Quote

DeeZ, was that pilot playing on a 15" monitor with a low resolution on a computer?

Okay then.

What resolution do you need inorder to determine that an aircraft is below/above/or around you?

I can see just fine from 640x480 all the way up to 1600x1200

Nothing is truely different... In fact the lower resolution allows for bigger redraw of the Objects.. (THEY APPEAR BIGGER) = Easier to see.

THe only difference is that instead of seeing a nice CLEAR USAF/LUFTWAFFE symbol, it is not as detailed.

Are you worried about SEEING the PLANE, or every SINGLE PITOT tube?(MINOR DETAILS ala...Eyecandy)

I dont think that This extreme detail is necessary. Its nice... but who cares..

Fact of the matter is with all resolutions, All planes can be seen VERY CLEAR when inside a 2k DISTANCE(aka dogfight) without ICONS..

Some planes blend better than others given a particular background they are flying over.

A P51/47D-30/38L is ALOT EASIER to spot at lowlevel compared to 190F/202...etc

Anyway... Resolution should not even be the crutch to use in order to say Iconless at Very close distance is bad.

Saying that resolution is the factor when in a close in fight is just a lame excuse...

Fight the plane not the Icon

lazs1 · « **Reply #91 on:** July 29, 2001, 09:34:00 AM »

hblair.. mookie works for a guy who owns many WWII fighters, and flys em, including both a Hellcat and a F4f... his pictures showed that you could see most of the rear horizontal stabilizer by looking back with very little effort. (that was sitting on a chute with the strapps loose and seat adjusted). I took that and the fact that all the Hellcat pilots I have talked to said that they could see quite well to the rear over and above one guy who was taking a pic as if it were a WB view... straight back. he was trying to prove that the WB camera was not prejudiced and that if you looked straight back (right at the headrest) that is what you would see.

did you also see that the 109 pics showed an even worse six view in other pics of someone actually sitting in one?

Oh... everyone says that the mirrors on U.S. planes worked quite well. If you didn't like that some of em were convex you could replace em with an automotive one (except external ones like spits).. The corsair had at least 3.

Also.... I don't think the bored,flabby "vets" on this board are who HTC should be listening to anyway if profit is at all their motive. Having said flabby vets vulch a bunch of blinded newbies out of the game is not such a great idea.

No matter what tho... The real fact of the matter is that those who like action are the real and obvious majority... Look at the map during peak hours. People are going to the action. They go where the closest easiest to get to fite is. They do it because that is what they prefer. you make it harder to find a fite and you will make it harder for HTC to find customers. We have all the flabby ol vets we need. we can use some new blood.
lazs

lazs1 · « **Reply #92 on:** July 29, 2001, 09:38:00 AM »

Yeah.. it's time for this sim to 'grow'... let's get it trimmed down to the 20 or so guys who really appreciate "Historical" flight sims and get rid of all the trash who just want to have a good time.
lazs

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #93 on:** July 29, 2001, 12:38:00 PM »

DeeZ, you are using the same arguments you used to convince me that X-Plane is somehow magically better.

You don't bother to understand anything, and insist your way is the right way. Trying to discuss anything with you turns into an argument because you are so arrogant, you have yourself convinced that YOUR way is the right way.
-SW

Hooligan · « **Reply #94 on:** July 29, 2001, 01:07:00 PM »

hblair:

Even Hitech and Pyro don't think the WB hellcat 6-view is that accurate (compare it to their latest work). Aircraft in WB got good or bad 6-views based solely on how far the "camera lens" was from the headrest. It really had nothing to do with the actual visibility in the aircraft. In the Hellcat the lens was very close (about 7") and it had a horrible 6-view. If the lens was 20" from the headrest (ala the WB 109) the 6-view would have been similar to the spit 6-view.

AH's current adjustable system is infinitely better. No doubt the amount of head movement allowed in each aircraft in not precisely accurate (whatever that means) but at least the system does not give certain aircraft huge artificial and innacurate SA advantages or disadvantages.

As far as the icons, view system in general etc... go. I very much like AH's current setup and consider it to be a very elegant solution to a complex problem.

When we all have five 40" monitors arrayed around us displaying 160 degree views at 10,000 x 10,000 resolution then we can eliminate hat switches, icons etc.. and just turn our heads to look at life scaled video representations. Until then I am perfectly happy with the current system and would hate to be burdened with artificially crippled visibility. Toad and some others have some nice ideas, and I'm sure that improvements can be made. But simply getting rid of DAR or icons or whatever would decrease realism not enhance it.

Hooligan

DeeZCamp · « **Reply #95 on:** July 29, 2001, 04:17:00 PM »

Gee Swulf... How lame can you be? lets see.. oh yes... you have not once adressed the issue at hand, instead you had to fall back on the x-plane issue.

I guess you know that What I have posted about the Resolution makes perfect sense, but because you are empty minded you have no real response.

Keep bashing.. its okay, There is a thread created for your Whineing.. about how we shouldnt do anything..

Whatever wulf.. you have shown repeatedly that you are close minded.. and obviously not to bright with all the dumb empty answer replies.

I think that your very boring person Wulf, infact Everything that you seemingly enlighten people with, is nothing short of dull predictable anti- topic bashing crap.

It is you who have not learned anything, and it is you that do not seem to understand opinions and facts.

oh well you are continuing to be a lost cause, there is nothing I nor anyone else can say to change that little peice of tissue in your head from bashing and being ignorant.

Wulf you can continue to be a clone like a vast majority of the world now. Just go along with the flow,.. it suites you.

Oh yeah keep your Icon excusses comming, I cant wait to hear the next empty excuse for why they shouldnt be off when in close fighting distance.

Dont worry.. Im sure HTC will never appease the hardcore crowd of simmer completely, they have to balance it out between the GAMEY people like yourself.

Rock on Wulf with your Icons.. You need em

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #96 on:** July 29, 2001, 04:21:00 PM »

I listed several reasons above, apparently you are a) ignoring them because they are too difficult for you to understand or b) you are just a tard.

I think just about everyone that had to deal with your X-Plane diatrabe is going to agree on option b.
-SW

DeeZCamp · « **Reply #97 on:** July 29, 2001, 04:43:00 PM »

WOW WULF where are your reasons..???

I sure cant find anything except your EMPTY monitor speech..

SO wheres your argument? Please enlighten me as to All the "listed" reasons YOU have provided????

Hey wulf guess what.. Heres a clue for you.

YOU can EVEN see the PLanes on a 14 Inch monitor...at 640x480 clearly.

WICH means you should obviously be able to see them on a 15" as well...

I guess it is starting to come down to the fact that You cannot track or play without icons, or you have this SURPISING inability to look at something whether it be on a wall, or a flat screen and determine what/where it is doing.

I guess you must have a hard time watching TV. I mean,.. wow the resolution on tv is horride, You must never play nintendo or other console games, because the clutter of the screens must drive you nuts. You know being that its a limited FOV, and resolution and ALL.

Wheres your argument now?.. what are you going to try and pull out of your _ _ _ and conjure up?

Keep searching for the next excuse wulf.. you need em.

-ammo- · « **Reply #98 on:** July 29, 2001, 04:53:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hblair:

I remember your big campaign on AGW about the *six-view*. Then somebody like Scop got tired of hearing it, He sat in an F6F at an airshow, took pictures of his confined rear view, said the WB's six-view was "dead-on", then you continued your rant and whine like he had never posted. You were unaffected by his proof. Even after WB's had the revised six-view, you still moaned about IT!

That's why I don't bother arguing reason with you, and don't take you too awful seriously, (another reason is that you're a car guy and seem to be a very likeable fella)

OK, I know that there are some of you who like the radar the way it is. There are many others who don't, before you fantasize that there are more who like than do not, look at all the past threads on the topic. There's usually 3-4 who want no changes, the rest favor some type of change. (that's not my opinion, read the threads) I hope HT will implement some type of change, I know he's probably gotten some good laughs seeing us beat each other up over it.

Truce 'dar boys?
Now go fix me a sammich.

and how many of the paying customers actually read this BBS? does there opinion count? What should HTC use as a basis for their decision? Is there even a "decision" to be made..or do they just say in their office.." LOL.they are whining again"

Maybe most folks just enjoy this product too much to worry with all the complaining and "BBS discussions"

Just a thought

Personally, with or without radar..I enjoy the game immensely. For the guy that is not entirely focussed on the gmae while climbing out, its a nice feature. If you are able to completely engross yourself without distractions in your home or play area then the "no inflight radar" option is for you. If you have many distractions in your home or play area and it is impossible to completely give 100% of your attention to the computer screen, then it is entirely possible that you appreciate the game feature.

ammo

Fester' · « **Reply #99 on:** July 29, 2001, 04:59:00 PM »

i need to try out warbirds again to see if their radar settings, Scenarios and HA make for more entertaining game than current aces high modern technology arena

-ammo- · « **Reply #100 on:** July 29, 2001, 05:05:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Fester':
i need to try out warbirds again to see if their radar settings, Scenarios and HA make for more entertaining game than current aces high modern technology arena

There you go. Now you are making sense. If you are that unhappy with the game. Go find another "drug" that does. Being proactive is good.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #101 on:** July 29, 2001, 05:05:00 PM »

"WE ARE PLAYING WITH A 90 DEGREE FIELD OF VIEW ON A FLAT MONITOR AT LOW RESOLUTIONS USING A HAT SWITCH TO ACT AS OUR NECKS!!"

"As I told you elsewhere, I can fly with or without icons. It makes no difference to me.
As I also told you elsewhere, in a simulated world that is 1/500th the size of the real one being displayed on anywhere from a 14" to a 21" flat screen monitor icons are necessary because you do NOT get the detail or visual cues you would in the real world."

Like I said before Deez, you are just a tard.
-SW

Creamo · « **Reply #102 on:** July 29, 2001, 05:07:00 PM »

Geezus H. Christ Festard, WBS will definatley kick themselves for going flat rate.

At 157 hours current in AH THIS MONTH, they'd make a fortune.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #103 on:** July 29, 2001, 05:10:00 PM »

Hell DeeZ, remember this thread: http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=001635

Those guys gave a list of good reasons why no icons is a bad idea.

I don't know where they grow people like you DeeZ, but next time you go back there you might wanna let them know there's entirely too much chlorine in your gene pool.
-SW

Midnight · « **Reply #104 on:** July 29, 2001, 10:36:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hornet:
I'm guessing that the supporters of no icons in MA all fly in high res mode.

Good point Hornet. I fly in 1600x1200 with a 21" at home, and can see everything just fine, just about anywhere. However, when I play on my laptop, it is at 800x600 on a much smaller screen, and objects have a tendancy to disappear very easily. For example, a fighter coming right at me (direct cross section) can disappear do to pixel restrictions and the ONLY thing I can see is the icon for it. If we had no icons, or radar, it would be very tough for the low-res, small monitor guys to play very well.

Once the minimum system requirements are upgraded to faster CPU, more RAM, more Video RAM, minimum display resolution, etc. Then would be a good time to think about icon removal / radar reductions etc.