Will you defend palestinians...

[Wotan]

In '39, the Nazis plunged the entire world into war when they attacked Poland.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. The Germans and Soviets invaded poland. The British And French declared war. Even then The events that followed were not set in stone.

During the "phoney war" period all sides seem content simply "being at war" Except the Royal Navy and Kriegsmarine. Had the french and English been serious about going to war if Germany invaded Poland they would have made some preperation and invaded Germany the second German troops stepped into Poland.

The polish campaign lasted what  4 weeks? (sept 1 till oct 6 when last of the poles surrender).

The "phoney war" peroid was some 7 months then norway and denmark were invaded.

I would say May 10 when france was invaded is when the Nazis plunged the world into the war. No one in the west really a gave a crap about poland or most of eastern Europe. If they did you would have thought they  would not have settled on the 50 years of Soviet occupation so easily.  The west was in no position to stop Soviets but I would have imagined a harder push to berlin by the western Allies. aka Patton style.

the brits and french had seven months to plan and nothing came of it. They were whooped in 6 weeks.

[Toad]

Wotan, you want to argue over the date? Fine.

Most historians are going with the Nazi invasion of Poland but I'm sure you can convince them to rewrite all the books.

Pick whatever date you like......... the agressors never change in the scenario; it's always the same.

[Furious]

Straffo,

I was kinda cheating by including the French as one of the nations the U.S. has been at war with.  I was referring to the French & Indian war and it occurred prior to independence.


F.

[midnight Target]

I wouldn't say that. They all trace their religious beliefs bac to the Torah (or abraham) but they take clearly different paths. The Koran, the New testament and the Talmud (it is this book(s) of Jewish laws that guides Israeli religious teaching) all reflect a complete different world and theological view.


quote:
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At Khaibar, where a lot of Jews lived, Mohammad was once offered a meal by a Jewish woman. However, the woman's plot was to poison the meal so that Mohammad may die. The Jews thought that if Mohammad was true, then he wouldn't eat it, and if he was false, he would eat it.
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Well he ate it and died. The Jews also Crucfied Christ. So if your a religious nut bag (which I am not) its not hard to see why their hatred for each other goes way back.

I'm sorry but this sounds like someone throwing a hand grenade and then denying it.

If it's just a troll, it is pretty sick.

And the God of Abraham is the same God in all three religions Wotan...no question about that. They only differ on how he should be worshipped.

[Wotan]

Read my post

I wouldn't say that. They all trace their religious beliefs bac to the Torah (or abraham) but they take clearly different paths. The Koran, the New testament and the Talmud (it is this book(s) of Jewish laws that guides Israeli religious teaching) all reflect a complete different world and theological view

what in that statement is inaccurate?

Well he ate it and died. The Jews also Crucfied Christ. So if your a religious nut bag (which I am not) its not hard to see why their hatred for each other goes way back.

If you believe in any of these religions then you know this is accurrate. I dont I dont care who killed  who or when. I am not religous.

Throwing a hand granade? Thats a reply to gruen's statement. One that reflects the extremist religious views of all sides. And what am I denying? Where did I deny it?

Wotan, you want to argue over the date? Fine.

Most historians are going with the Nazi invasion of Poland but I'm sure you can convince them to rewrite all the books.

Pick whatever date you like......... the agressors never change in the scenario; it's always the same.

I have this ability to read and make my own judgemets. However there are many who would go alll the way back to world war 1 and to the great depression to find the root causes of ww2.  The polish invasion was the event that lead to war. But it hardly plunged the world into anything.

The fact is that prior to the invasion of norway and denmark there was very little war at all over the previous 9 months. (except naval).

In '39, the Nazis plunged the entire world into war when they attacked Poland

But the thing about your statement here is you claim that the whole world was plunged into war. Thats not at all accurate because at that time total war, war that would come to involve the entire world was not a certainty until france fell. At that point there could and would be no quarter offered to germany.

As to your non-germane section about "getting whooped". Yeah they did. They hadn't spent near as long building a military and preparing to conquer the world as the other side had prior to the balloon going up. What would one expect?

non-germane. section........?

well it was a sentence I guess. But its very germane, had the french and brits, who had made atleast political plans to address german aggression, took the 9 months or so of the "phoney war" peroid to strengthen their defensive position they may not have been so easily whooped and the world may have been spared that plunge

But I guess thats a bit much to expect from 2 super powers with better equipment, supplies and a clearly better defensive position.

I dont think I was argueing anything just stating my opinion as it related to your statement.

[Toad]

simple question to avoid the dancing you're doing.

Were the Nazis the military aggressors?

[Wotan]

absolutely where did I say other wise?

My criticism of france and britan only relates to their inability to take care of their own back yard.

I made the same statements against the eu as it related to the balkans.

Unless you are saying I am a nazi or closet Serb lover I am missing something.....

[Zigrat]

alot of dipshits around here

btw i actually agree with easymo. for once. i think truman was an bellybutton to involve us with israel but now that they are an ally it is our responsibility to stand by them.

oh and the idiots who compare israel to the third reich are just that.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Zigrat
alot of dipshits around here

btw i actually agree with easymo. for once. i think truman was an bellybutton to involve us with israel but now that they are an ally it is our responsibility to stand by them.

oh and the idiots who compare israel to the third reich are just that.

We were waiting for the King Dipshit to arrive...oh look, he's here.

[Nashwan]

If you leave the Israelis alone, they pretty much leave you alone.

In '48, within 24 hours of statehood, 5 Arab armies launched a war against the Israelis. That war has never really ended.

Toad, I'm sorry  if it seems I'm only responding to your posts, it's just coincidence on the two threads.

The UN agreed a partition plan for Israel/Palestine in 1948.

Before partition was implemented, the Israelis launched a series of military operations against towns and villages that were earmarked for the Palestinian territories.

Look up Operation Nachshon, which involved attacks on Arab villages on the road to Jerusalem, the shelling and occupation of Jaffa, Haifa, Tiberias etc. It led to the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from territory that had been granted to them under the partition plan.

All this happened before partition, before independance, and before the Arab armies became involved.

[midnight Target]

Well, it took a minute, but I finally found refrence to the death of Muhammad. It would seem that the story of the poisoning by the Jewish woman is just that...a story. And it would further seem that much of your historical refrence Wotan is skewed towards either a pro-nazi revisionist view, or an anti-jewish view. This is just an opinion of mine, but I cite the following:

1. When Grunherz noted that all three religions worshiped the same God your reply was "I wouldn't say that.....".

2. The story of the poisoning by the Jewish woman is contrary to almost every account of the death of Muhammad. Here is a link that goes into some detail. All other accounts of his death are completely unrelated to this poisoning. Basically he died quietly of old age.

3. "The Jews crucified Christ". I thought it was a Roman execution. Sure the Pharasi (sp) wanted him gone too, but this is debatable. What really seemed to point out your agenda is the way you disclaimed the religious aspect as not yours...just something you heard..right. Sounds like flame fanning to me.  

4. Your contention that the Nazis didn't push the world into war...Oh wait....by invading Poland. Wasn't the mutual protection alliance between Poland and England / France involved here? Or are you saying it was England and Frances fault for not winning sooner? Or should the USSR take equal blame for the war?

5. "The Palestinians are struggling against their Zionist opressor." Are all Israelis Zionists now?

6. "The world screwed up after world war 2 and it is too late now to remove the entrenched Jews. However let them bare the financial cost." Entrenched jews? Entrenched in their own land? You couldn't be refering to the occupied territories because that would have nothing to do with WW2. So one can only assume that you mean the Jews are entrenched in Israel.

Transparent as hell.

[Wotan]

look what I posted and stated was not my personal view go read the original post. I follow no religion.

I wouldn't say that. They all trace their religious beliefs bac to the Torah (or abraham) but they take clearly different paths. The Koran, the New testament and the Talmud (it is this book(s) of Jewish laws that guides Israeli religious teaching) all reflect a complete different world and theological view

Read that. The point being that although each of these of religious beliefs may have originated from the same point, the torah and its account of abraham.

However they take totally diferent paths in terms of their world and theological view. Very different from each other not just in religious ceromony but in their relatonship to "God". Each believing and professing their version of God to be true.

I then go on to the most extreme religious view and stated

Well he ate it and died. The Jews also Crucfied Christ. So if your a religious nut bag (which I am not) its not hard to see why their hatred for each other goes way back.

See where it clearly states . So if your a religious nut bag .

But you obvisously missed it there so in my reply to your  post I clarified it further.

Thats a reply to gruen's statement. One that reflects the extremist religious views of all sides.

In the context of this thread which touches upon the historical hatred I figured I would include that.


FYI

I am anti-Zionist as can be. I am against the US aiding Israel in anyway.  I would be all for supporting the palestinians to the same degree that we have supported Israel. I would prefer we put a cage around that area and let the animals sort it out.

If you think being anti-Israel or ant-Zionist equates to being a Nazi or Anti-Jewish in general say so. My views are clearly expressed. If you missed them do a search of my posts related to this subject going bac over the 2 years I've been here you will that I have been consistant in my belief.


Its not their land it was strong armed away by Jewish pressure groups of the same sort used by the palestinians today. Nashwans post touches upon it. There was a  post that goes in depth abourt the situation that finally lead to the state of Israel.  
Again do yourself a search.


If this  post got you hot do a search on some of my other replies to threads like these. Your head might explode.

Your reaching in your conclusions and for the most part I dont care. But dont misconstrue what I wrote to suit your leftist world view.

4. Your contention that the Nazis didn't push the world into war...Oh wait....by invading Poland. Wasn't the mutual protection alliance between Poland and England / France involved here? Or are you saying it was England and Frances fault for not winning sooner? Or should the USSR take equal blame for the war?

Now again you are just making stuff up. Read what I stated in a reply to Toad.

6. "The world screwed up after world war 2 and it is too late now to remove the entrenched Jews. However let them bare the financial cost." Entrenched jews? Entrenched in their own land? You couldn't be refering to the occupied territories because that would have nothing to do with WW2. So one can only assume that you mean the Jews are entrenched in Israel.

Your all over road here mate. The world (uno) screwed up after world war 2 when they allowed Israel to become a state without giving the palestinians the same or ensuring them some sort of legal protection. The Israelis then expanded into territory that was not given to them by the uno. Again theres been numerous post that go into detail here. The Jews forced Palestinians from their homes and bull dozed them. They then built settlements and pushed the palestinians out even further.

Do a search on Hebron.

Your arguement is all the over place its not worth me typing any more.

To spare yourself in the future  let me suggest that you put me in your ignore list.

Enjoy

[Toad]

Originally posted by Nashwan

All this happened before partition, before independance, and before the Arab armies became involved.

Ah, before they were a nation state and were still just garden-variety terrorists?

OK, I understand that and basically agree.

Now find some instances after Statehood, say between the '48 and '73 wars where they acted agressively when no provocation existed.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Wotan
absolutely where did I say other wise?

So I guess you were just quibbling over the date, over using '39? Like nearly every historian and history book uses.

OK, thx for clearing that up.

The rest of it is for another thread I'd think.

[mrsid2]

If there was a vote to ban all religions, I'd go.