Author Topic: Chiming in on the "Perk La7" Movement  (Read 1505 times)

Offline LePaul

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Chiming in on the "Perk La7" Movement
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2002, 09:15:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by sling322


Got film?


Im pretty sure I do, come to think of it, I tend to record most of my jet flights in the event of a disco and such.

Isn't it something how some people can only flame when a topic is introduced.  Atta boy, Creamo!

Karnack, you've hit on it pretty good....perhaps you are the wiser man here.  Perhaps perking isn't the right approach...but the *^$#@ La7s just seem to out do most of the inventory we have  :(  I thought La7s were relatively rare in real life?

Also, good point on the Ta152

Offline Dead Man Flying

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Chiming in on the "Perk La7" Movement
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2002, 09:39:39 PM »
And so it begins again.  HTC is not going to perk the La7, people.  You're just going to have to deal with it.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Offline Tumor

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Chiming in on the "Perk La7" Movement
« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2002, 09:56:51 PM »
BUILD A FIGHTERTOWN ARENA SO THE SPITTIES AND LA7S CAN PLAY WITHOUT POOPING ON EVERYONE ELSE'S FUN!!


:D

Tumor
"Dogfighting is useless"  :Erich Hartmann

Offline pbirmingham

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Chiming in on the "Perk La7" Movement
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2002, 11:34:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Man, I hate the La-7.
....
That all said, perk it?:confused:   Are you nuts?  Its not perk worthy.  Its not versatile enough, it is not good enough and it is not used enough.


Hear hear!

I hate Laffers as well, basically because most fights happen down low where it really shines, but it isn't perk-worthy.

Short legs, short clip, and bad guns will always make it something of a specialty plane.  Think of it as the Anti-Hurricane.

Offline Steven

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Chiming in on the "Perk La7" Movement
« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2002, 11:36:58 PM »
Blue Mako, I respect your fighting abilities and thus wouldn't think you'd have too much trouble fighting an LA7 in your pony or a section of ponies.  I did ask how to take on an LA7 in an F4U-1 and am attempting to learn how to fight against the monster but so far no words on that subject.  Maybe you have some suggestions for this non-star MA combat pilot.  The same thing to the rest of you who have stated in this thread the LA7 is not that difficult to kill.  And I'm talking about when I get stuck low and encounter one from a position of near E states.

Unperk the F4U-4 and I'll not ever complain about the LA7 again.  I promise.   :D

Offline Urchin

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Chiming in on the "Perk La7" Movement
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2002, 12:04:54 AM »
I don't particularly care for the LA-7 myself.  I fly it when I just got gangbanged by 5-6 cons and I want to be invincible for a flight or two.  

People who say "It is the pilot, and not the plane" are fools if they think the PLANE has absolutely nothing to do with it.  Lets take two hypothetical pilots of equal skill.  One is silly and flies the 109E-4, one flies the Spit IX.  They meet in a co-alt, head-on situation.  Who's going to win?  Well, you never can tell, but I'd say the Spitfire has a pretty good chance of winning that one.  It is faster than the 109, it turns better (although not much better), it rolls twice as fast, it accelerates faster at all speeds, it climbs better, it dives better (duh), it has at least twice the firepower.  But lets take this one step farther.  The 109 pilot is an uber-ace.  The Spitfire is a complete newbie.  Who's going to win that one?  I'd guess probably the uber-ace, but it isn't guaranteed by any means.  Well, lets try it the other way around.  The Spit IX pilot is an uber-ace, and the 109 pilot is a newbie.  Who's going to win that one?  Spitfire, hands down.  10 out of 10.  Why the difference?  Well, in the equal skill test, one pilot has all the advantages in every category that matter in air combat (and probably all the ones that don't too).  In the 109's an ace scenario, the pilot obviously has much greater skill and experience to draw on, but he has to 'get inside his opponents head' to win- he has to understand what the Spit is going to do and counter it before it actually happens.  In the Spit's an ace scenario, the Spitfire pilot has ALL the advantages.  He has a much more worthy plane, and he is a more experienced and skilled pilot to boot.  

To me, the La-7 is a necesary evil.  It is a good plane that offers many advantages so that relatively unskilled pilots can have success and feel good, and keep their accounts.  It has a good solid financial reason to be in the game.  It is uber beyond belief?  Nope, not in my opinion.  A good 109G-10 or P-51D pilot CAN take on a lesser skilled opponent in an La-7 and have a good chance of winning the fight.  The performance advantages that the La-7 offers aren't THAT much over and beyond what planes like the P-51D, 190-D9, 109G-10, or Typhoon offer.  It is faster than all the planes listed, it accelerates better than all the planes listed, and it turns better than all the planes listed- but it the LA-7 screws up he doesn't have THAT much of a comfort zone to fool around in.  Above 10k, I'd actually take a G-10 over a La-7.

About the firepower- the La-7 does not lack firepower.  In hangar tests the cannon were found to be as effective as Hizookas in taking down hangars (they fire faster, but do less damage).  My 'best' sortie ever was in an La-7, I got somewhere in the low 20's (with 3 or 4 rearms).  The guns are NOT anemic, they are actually quite effective.  Even the ammo loudout isn't too poor- it doesn't have the 240 RPG (or something like that) of the F4U-1C- but 150 RPG is fairly standard in nose mounted cannon.  

Anyway, give it up about having the La-7 perked, it isn't going to happen.  Firstly, it has a sound economic reason for being, and secondly, even if it were perked they'd just move to the P-51 or Tiffie (or perhaps Spit IX or N1K2, depending on how they like to fight).

Although the folks telling people they are 'whiners' just because 'they don't know how to fight and get killed by LA-7s' don't really have a leg to stand on either in my opinion.  The 'whiners' have a very valid point in that the LA-7 DOES offer a plane that requires much less skill to fly than any pre-1944 plane, and somewhat less than even those.

Offline Toad

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This thread has MOVED me so EMOTIONALLY!
« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2002, 12:18:37 AM »
I MUST break into song!

"Perk 'em all!

Perk 'em all!

The large and the fast and the small.

Perk all the Nikkis and all La's too,

Perk anything that can shoot back at you!

`cause they're asking to just perk 'em all

As back to their Gruppen they crawl,

There'll be constant crying

as long as they're dying,

So cheer up, my lads,

Perk 'em all!

Nobody knows if the FM's are true,

So cheer up, my lads,

Perk 'em all!"


:D
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Wilbus

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Chiming in on the "Perk La7" Movement
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2002, 02:04:46 AM »
Innominate the Spitfire Mk9 still outclimbs and outturns the TA152 above 35k (yes I've had a 36k fight against a spit9 at that alt).

Second, it takes more then 10 minutes to climb high enough to outperform most fighters.

Third, almost nobody follows you up there so if you want a fight it's sub 20k where most fighters can challange you easily. Specially in Speed.

Fourth, The TA152 is undermodelled.
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline akak

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Chiming in on the "Perk La7" Movement
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2002, 03:22:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Steven
Blue Mako, I respect your fighting abilities and thus wouldn't think you'd have too much trouble fighting an LA7 in your pony or a section of ponies.  I did ask how to take on an LA7 in an F4U-1 and am attempting to learn how to fight against the monster but so far no words on that subject.  Maybe you have some suggestions for this non-star MA combat pilot.  The same thing to the rest of you who have stated in this thread the LA7 is not that difficult to kill.  And I'm talking about when I get stuck low and encounter one from a position of near E states.

Unperk the F4U-4 and I'll not ever complain about the LA7 again.  I promise.   :D



If the La7 and I are above 20k, I use normal E tactics against it.  If the La7 is on the deck and has some nice energy built up, I try to burn his E down by forcing a vertical fight and then forcing either a turn or yo-yo fight when I've burnt his energy sufficiently.  For me, forcing the turn fight is the easiest way in a P-38 to shoot down the La7.  


Ack-Ack

Offline Wilbus

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Chiming in on the "Perk La7" Movement
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2002, 03:39:50 AM »
Yeah but a P38 easily outturn an LA7.
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline robsan

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Chiming in on the "Perk La7" Movement
« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2002, 03:58:30 AM »
The F4U-1C has 5055 kills and has been killed 2479 times.
F4U-1C k/d Ratio 2.0

The La-7 has 21600 kills and has been killed 16980 times.
La-7 k/d Ratio 1.3

k/d 1.3? No big deal

Btw, if you say that "a newbie in a La-7 is no threat, but an Expert is", then I have a Perk System modifier for you:

As soon as you have earned a certain ammount of Perk Points, the La-7 becomes unavailable to you. Earn even more Perks and the Fw109D-9 is barred.
This carries on untill you reach uber-expert-status and the only Plane available to you is the C.202, or the Me109E-4 :)

Offline cobra427

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Chiming in on the "Perk La7" Movement
« Reply #41 on: May 28, 2002, 04:15:18 AM »
dont take this wrong but u guys r whining like those spit dweebs when they get killed...if u dont like ppl fly'n the plane figure a way to killl it or deal with it

Offline Innominate

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Chiming in on the "Perk La7" Movement
« Reply #42 on: May 28, 2002, 05:06:35 AM »
Wilbus: exactly my point.  There are unperked plane(s) that should be perked, and perked plane(s) that shouldnt.  (Or various details need to be rethought)

Quote
Originally posted by robsan
The F4U-1C has 5055 kills and has been killed 2479 times.
F4U-1C k/d Ratio 2.0

What I get a kick out of is that the f4u4 has the same kill ratio as the f4u-1c, for five times the perks and a gangrape tag.  (Also meaning it's normally flown more carefully than the C-hog...)

Am I wrong?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2002, 05:08:47 AM by Innominate »

Offline Wilbus

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Chiming in on the "Perk La7" Movement
« Reply #43 on: May 28, 2002, 05:22:17 AM »
Ahaa, My Appologize Innominate, I missunderstood you :)

I agree with you 100%.
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline devious

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Chiming in on the "Perk La7" Movement
« Reply #44 on: May 28, 2002, 06:37:56 AM »
I despise the LA-7 and if I take every feasible opportunity to down one of the mothers.

I can't say anything about it beeing over- or undermodeled. It's a very good, late-war plane. It performs better than most other planes at low alts.

And I don't have a problem with it. Take that LA-7 vs. a 190D or 109G at 15k, you get one dead LA-7. Meeting a LA-7 in a 190D or 109G on the deck most likely means defeat (at least for me)

The LA-7 is an enemy, not a victim, and that's fine. No need to perk it.

dtx has 10 kills and has been killed 6 times against the La-7.

A6M5b, Kills of LA-7 in: 1 , killed by LA-7: 1
Bf-109 G2, Kills of LA-7 in: 2 , killed by LA-7: 2
FW-190A5, Kills of LA-7 in: 7 , killed by LA-7: 3

And that in my 2nd tour in AH.