More reparation nonsense

[gofaster]

Originally posted by midnight Target
Once Again.

There are plenty of living breathing Black American citizens who have had property and or opportunity withheld or taken from them over the years WITH THE CONSENT OF THE GOVERNMENT. What about them?
 

They can cut-n-paste the claim form I posted further up this thread, and just change the names, the country, and the nature of the persecution, and submit it, along with the proper filing fee, to their local federal court clerk.  See, I've done all the hard work for them!

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by Ripsnort


So we pay every black american for a few that had this happened to? Sounds reasonable...not.

No we shouldn't pay every Black American. Attacking Farakhan is just too easy in this case. There are issues here that deserve our time and that is the real agenda.

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by gofaster


They can cut-n-paste the claim form I posted further up this thread, and just change the names, the country, and the nature of the persecution, and submit it, along with the proper filing fee, to their local federal court clerk.  See, I've done all the hard work for them!

Your (admittedly well written) claim was for reparations to you for wrongs done to your Great Grandfather. I'm talking about direct compensation to LIVING people who were wronged directly.

[gofaster]

Originally posted by midnight Target
If the Government takes your house, do you expect payment?

Yes.  By law, the government must pay compensation for seized properties, even for the cause of eminent domain. This is real popular with DOTs for various states trying to push down new roads.

Originally posted by midnight Target
If the police break in and burn it down ... by accident, do you expect to be reimbursed?

Yes, in civil court for wrongful damages equal to the value of the property as accepted by the courts.  The city may then seek compensation from its employees if policy permits it (sure wouldn't want to be a cop, let me tell ya).  A side FYI: a cop can lose his job if he gets injured while performing his duties.  Boo!

Originally posted by midnight Target
If you were kicked out of college for no good reason, would you just shrug your shoulders and shuffle along?

No.  By law, a school must show grounds for dismissal.  An action may be brought against the school and a determination be made by court or arbitrator as agreed-upon by the parties.  Such grounds for dismissal may include conducting a public disturbance, disruption of curricular activities, or violation of the student code of conduct, as provided to all incoming students.  Conviction for committing a felony crime, whether  the crime was against the school or not, is sufficient for dismissal.

[Nifty]

Originally posted by midnight Target
There are issues here that deserve our time and that is the real agenda.

who's agenda?  Yours?  It's definitely not the agenda of the majority of the people asking for reparations.  Their agenda is to get reparations not only for those living (such as those held out of a State University due to race), but for any descendants of slaves no matter what their current financial situation is.  If they had their way, Barry Bonds would be due a reparation check.

[Curval]

Originally posted by Thrawn
Seems like alot of people are against reparations, because it would be too much work involved in figuring out who is owed what?  Do believe that justice should be strived for as long as it is easy and dropped when it seems like there is going some difficulty?

Okay...you make a good point.

But, an example of some of the confusion:

A white slave owner rapes a young slave girl.  She gets pregnant.  The off-spring is half black...half plantation owner.  That child has a child with a native American, who in turn has a child with an Irish Catholic.  The offspring from this conception has a child with a black person.

The child born is now a mish-mash of races.  How much in the way of reparations should be paid to this family.  By all rights any award should be divided by 2 from the start as the initial offspring was half white...or should it be doubled becuase of the rape?

Let's say I have 1/1,000 % of my blood that is black.  Do I get something too?  I am white...or look that way...but I have black blood in me.

Many would argue "Yes, absolutely...you should get 1/1,000 of a male award."  But, I have had this argument with a black guy who said "No, you are white and had all the advantages of the white man's world..you should get nothing."  

Which is it?

You shouldn't give up on something merely because it is difficult...but at some point you need to decide if that same task is impossible.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Nifty


who's agenda?  (snip
  If they had their way, Barry Bonds would be due a reparation check.

ROTFLOL!

[Wotan]

Slavery and jim crow arent the same thing. There have been forms of "jim crow" laws all over the world and in most nations. Racism against asians, hispanics, etc have nothing to do with slavery. Why should we believe that racism directed toward blacks is result of slavery?

Most people in america didnt own slaves. The southern and frontier dirt farmers suffered as a result of slavery. The plantation owner could produce more cheaper. They didnt have to hire out jobs to the poor farmers. Slavery wasnt a benefit to all white people. Most suffered as a result of it. To then say all white people owe them something is bs or that every citizen today owes them something is also bs. My moms dad didnt come to america until the 30s. My moms mother was an english war brid and my mother herself was born in conventry right after the war. My dads relatives were irish and never owned a slave. Their children owe nothing for slavery. Thats where the money comes from. The Government will confiscate my money to pay for something that I had nothing to do with.

There were plenty of white slaves and slaves of other ethnic back grounds who were enslaved through "indentured servitude"

Historian Philip Curtin estimates that the total slave trade from Africa to the Western Hemisphere amounted to 9,566,000 people, the largest forced migration in all history. The 4,700,000 taken to South America accounted for half of the entire trade. The 4,040,000 who went to the West Indies represented more than 40 percent. By comparison, the British colonies/United States received roughly 399,000. South America imported nearly 12 slaves and the West Indies imported more than 10 slaves for every slave who went to North America.

White indentured servitude was slavery as well.

It has been alleged that after his military campaigns in Ireland, Cromwell sent an estimated 50,000-80,000 Irish woman and children into slavery in the West Indies.

In "From Columbus To Castro" by Eric Williams.

"The matter was debated on March 25, 1659, the petition of 72 Englishmen 'now in slavery in the Barbados' which claimed that "7,000-8,000 Scots taken prisoner at the battle of Worcester in 1651 were sold to the British plantations in the New World. In 1640, 200 Frenchmen were kidnapped, concealed and sold in Barbados for 900 pounds of cotton each."

MacManus estimates the total number sent to the West Indies (over the period ? to ?) at 30,000-80,000. He goes on to say:

"Because the far greater proportion of the Irish who were able to bear arms had been killed off, few young men now remained to Ireland. And of these few remaining young men, and of the young women and boys and girls, numbers were, during the following years shipped into slavery to the American Colonies and the West Indies. The number sent into slavery are variously estimated at between thirty and eighty thousand."

Abbot Emerson Smith estimated that between one-half to one-third of all white immigrants to the British colonies, between the Puritan migration of the 1630s and the Revolution came under indenture. Not to mention the number of "criminals" sentenced to labor in the colonies. There were large number of asians and native indians who were indentured.

England created and maintained the colonies to help supply her growing markets - once it became clear that there was not a huge amount of gold in the colonies, the products were primarily agricultural: first tobacco, then cotton. A chronic labor shortage, crude tools and the need to open previously undeveloped land on a vast scale made some kind of forced labor inevitable. In the early years, much colonial labor was done by white indentured servants - men, women, sometimes whole families - who exchanged five to seven years of labor for the passage to the New World and the right to plots of land after the bondage period expired. Great profits were made from indentured servitude: Selling labor contracts, shipping of the cargo of virtually free labor, the product of the labor itself. Black slaves were first introduced into colonial America in the early 1600s as a complement to white indentured servitude. But black chattel slavery soon eclipsed indenture, because slavery generated much higher rates of profit, both from what could be driven out of slave labor and from the international and domestic trade in slaves.

If anything sue the British.

Slavery still happens today in africa and has been apart of the worlds history. At one time or another most races were enslaved by another. There is nothing more horrible about black slavery then any other.

The interment of japaneese americans is completely different in that they were citizens and were denied their rights as citizens. Lincolns Emancipation Proclamation simply freed slaves who were to that point property and did not have the same rights as the japaneese americans interned during ww2.

No doudt this will upset the white guilt ridden liberals. Let them set up a fund and donate their own money dont steal mine or any of the other peoples who had nothing to do with slavery.

[gofaster]

Originally posted by Curval

Let's say I have 1/1,000 % of my blood that is black.  Do I get something too?  I am white...or look that way...but I have black blood in me.

Written like a fellow Carib!

The calculation gets even more difficult when the children don't know who their father was and their mother doesn't either.

I guess its a good thing Florida has an A+ guy running DCF so that the problem of absentee fathers will be eliminated.

[Curval]

Sue the British?

I think you will find that the British were the ones who "came around" on the whole slavery issue and actually sent warships to the African coast to destroy the slave factories and the slave trade.  It was the Spanish, Dutch and Portugese that kept it up until the very end.

I'm not saying that the British were angels...far from it...but point all your fingers where they should be pointed...not just one.

[Thrawn]

I got an idea.  Let some like the ACLU sue for the reparations, come up with a relatively fair number man hours work etc.  And let them worry about the headaches and subsequent lawsuits of proper distribution.  How could distribution be the governments problem anyway.  They would probably be named in the case.  

Wouldn't it be the courts problem?

[sidthekid]

Okay lets use some facts. No americans were taking salves from africa. Africans were taking own people selling them to Dutch.


Second at end civil war America offered to send any salve who wanted to go back to africa free passage, less than 1% went home.Now if you stay knowing how you could be treated its your choice.


 there are a lot of people who came here and were treated unfair. They stuck it out and today live in peace. Including Blacks, which are the most protected race in america.



Now for facts read Abe lincolns address before war :::http://members.aol.com/jfepperson/newhaven.html


 Explain this how could a lot of blacks make a great living in 1700's thru 2000. BECAUSE THEY WORKED FOR IT AND BUILT SOMETHING.

 Take Benjamn Banneker Parents both salves and in 1700's he was one of the richest men in maryland.

Benjamin Banneker was born in Maryland on November 9, 1731. His father and grandfather were former slaves.

A farmer of modest means, Banneker nevertheless lived a life of unusual achievement. In 1753, the young man borrowed a pocket watch from a well-to-do neighbor; he took it apart and made a drawing of each component, then reassembled the watch and returned it, fully functioning, to its owner.

From his drawings Banneker then proceeded to carve, out of wood, enlarged replicas of each part. Calculating the proper number of teeth for each gear and the necessary relationships between the gears, he constructed a working wooden clock that kept accurate time and struck the hours for over 50 years.

At age 58, Banneker began the study of astronomy and was soon predicting future solar and lunar eclipses. He compiled the ephemeris, or information table, for annual almanacs that were published for the years 1792 through 1797. "Benjamin Banneker's Almanac" was a top seller from Pennsylvania to Virginia and even into Kentucky.

In 1791, Banneker was a technical assistant in the calculating and first-ever surveying of the Federal District, which is now Washington, D.C.

The "Sable Astronomer" was often pointed to as proof that African Americans were not intellectually inferior to European Americans. Thomas Jefferson himself noted this in a letter to Banneker.


Daniel Hale Williams, Benjamin Banneker, Jean Baptiste du Sable ,
George Washington Carver, Granville Woods, George Washington Bush,Lloyd Quarterman, Elijah McCoy ,Matthew Henson ,
Percy Julian Jan Matzeliger Guion Bluford, Jr.
Charles Drew. Madame C. J. Walker ,Dr. Patricia Bath Garrett Morgan, James West  , Mark Dean  Can list many more.







OUT OF BONDAGE: FROM THE ANALS OF THE AMERICAN MISSIONARY ASSOCIATION, THE STORY OF THE HEROIC SLAVE MUTINY ABOARD THE AMISTAD  
 
 
WARREN MARR II
 
 
 
CAPTURE
 
Near the northern borders of Sierra Leone, several Africans (employed by a Portuguese slave trader) slipped from the woods and overpowered Cinque as he cultivated his crops. They bound and gagged the muscular young man, and forced him to hike with them for several days through the immense stands of tropical trees and lush undergrowth to a sprawling stockade at the river's delta, not far from the Atlantic Ocean.
They shoved him into the compound, where somebody cut his bonds and left him standing, bewildered, among a herd of men and women whom he had never seen and whose mildly curious faces registered both fear and uncertainty. One thing about the captives was immediately apparent: they had been chosen because of their youth and physical perfection. This was the human merchandise of one of the few remaining slave traders who, in 1839, was still successful in outwitting the British slave patrol.  




 



 And if you see at rally Not once did they Use Martin luther King's name. That was because he didn't believe in hand outs. He thought that Blacks getting welfare and other programs were hurting not helping. below is a quote by him from his web site.

  "In the treatment of poverty nationally, one fact stands out: there are twice as many white poor as Negro poor in the United States. Therefore I will not dwell on the experiences of poverty that derive from racial discrimination, but will discuss the poverty that affects white and Negro alike.

Up to recently we have proceeded from a premise that poverty is a consequence of multiple evils: lack of education restricting job opportunities; poor housing which stultified home life and suppressed initiative; fragile family relationships which distorted personality development. The logic of this approach suggested that each of these causes be attacked one by one. Hence a housing program to transform living conditions, improved educational facilities to furnish tools for better job opportunities, and family counseling to create better personal adjustments were designed. In combination these measures were intended to remove the causes of poverty".




 Now If you say reparations for those that were Killed. I'm all for it.


Most blacks use this Quote to support reparations.40 ACRES AND A mule. nOW COST OF 40 acres and a mule was put at 43,000 dollars in 1993 by Essunce magazine (black magazine).


 Never did The Goverment of The United States say every salve was to get 40 acres and a mule. What happen was a Union General gave Some blacks 40 acres and a mule after war. Because he thought they deserved to get a start.


 
 Rally had 3000 people and most of those were bussed in. Only ones getting money are the lawyers including AL SHARPETON who passed around a bucket to get legal fee's for reparations. ONLY aFool would give lawyers money if they thought it was legal or had chance to get reparations they would do it on a contengince fee plan. So think hard No one was force to stay here after 1865 so reparations for those who decided to stay is dumb. If you want to win go to sorce Sue african nations who took salves and sold them to salve traders.

[Curval]

Originally posted by sidthekid
OUT OF BONDAGE: FROM THE ANALS OF THE AMERICAN MISSIONARY ASSOCIATION,

Is this a gay porn thing?  

Seriously...careful when you say that "no Americans were taking slaves"...to every rule there is ALWAYS an exception.

[lazs2]

well gee thrawn... I guess what confused me was the picture of fat assed limey royalty on your money and all the british flags I see around canada.   The passport was kinda incriminating as was the lack of dental care also.
lazs

[Wotan]

I am talking about The british colonies in america curval. Thats what this whole raparation thing is about. Blacks in america wanting a handout for simply existing. They werent slaves. Half of them would  have died at birth in a dung hut somewhere in the african bush.

The british if anyone bare the responsibility for slavery in north america.

These people wont file a law suite for raparations because they would loose. They will simply use the same sort of racial blackmail technique they perfected against corporations.

I have no problem with guilt ridden liberals wanting to give away their money but they never do that. They steal it from good hard working folks to pay for their "feelings". Imagine if all the wealthy libs got together and gave away every dollar they earned to satisfy their guilt. Think that will happen?