On Suicide bombing.

[Pepe]

Oh...I forgot: Thank your for your interest, Hitech. I would really love to be massive suicide raids out of this game  

Cheers,

[moose]

Originally posted by Wotan


Wont the the bomb "glide" further at 350 then it would at 150?
 

AFAIK, there would be little difference since the fins are not curved like an airfoil is. there would be little lift as there would not be much difference in pressure at the back of the fin. (this is of course with my limited knowledge of how lift works )

a bomb dropped at 350miles an hour would land at the same time as one dropped at 150 if my physics serves me well

however since in real life all bombs had were those prop fuses and not radar altimeters, how AH models them is correct.

[AKDejaVu]

Its strange, but in this whole thread I don't see one person acknowledge or say that bombs should simply be released at higher altitudes.

It is not difficult at all to survive a jabo attack.  If you release your bombs above 7k you are out easy.  The problem is, this is not accurate enough for many people that insist that they destroy something.  Instant gratification wins out above all else.

Bombs kill from above 7k.  I've seen many people drop on CVs from higher altitudes with fighters and hit it while avoiding the ack umbrella.  Those are the few where survival actually plays a role in their practice/tactics.  They are rare in the MA and this thread highlights why.

AKDejaVu

[Wotan]

because some times you drop at lo alts

in 190f8 i can fly level at 750 and hit a gv at 1.7 k while level

190 fighter bombers did this

follow the link to an image.

http://www.il2center.com/Reference/Bulk/LW%20FW-190%20Fighter/Fw190_fighter_bomber_tactics_draw.tif

If we get a b25 we would want the ability to do low level noe raids as well.

Back to this physics thing

at an alt of 750 ft and no matter what my speed if I release my bomb at a given point it should always land at the same point?

See image



Is this right?

[oboe]

I don't think that's right, Wotan.   Your bomb will always take the same amount of time to fall 750 ft, but the faster your release speed, the further the bomb will travel horizontally before impact.

Imagine dropping your bomb from a hovering helicopter at 750 ft, then from a FW190 travelling at 300 mph, but also at 750 ft.    The first bomb has 0 horizontal velocity at release, the 2nd will be travelling quite a ways before impact.

[Wotan]

well that was what I originally thought but i am unsure now

[Pepe]

From a physics-impaired, so take it not too seriously.

When you drop at constant alt, what remains constant is the time the bomb is in the air. But the faster plane will make the bomb travel more distance horizontally, since it covers more distance per time unit. Of course, leaving drag aside, and in a perfect atmosphere.

So I would say the pic is false.

Cheers,

[Wotan]

I see where the confusion

Fighter bomber 190s attacked at low level as well. The arming of the bomb is not a result of alt but travel time. At 500 ft at and 350mph I can drop a bomb and it will arm and explode at 150mph it wont.

I didnt mean to imply that the bomb stays in the air longer but that at a higher speed the bomb arms in a shorter time.

EDIT

Also it could mean that ah bombs arm over a given distance and not at a faster rate at higher speeds. So I could be wrong all way round.

[lazs2]

HT.. I think you know how I feel about perk planes but..  I think that the perk system is perfect for bombs.   for all single engined planes why not perk bombs?   Say... all 250 lb bombs are free...  after that.. you earn bomb 'perk points' by surviving a jabo missun.   If you hit a target and land... you get bomb perk points toward single engine bomb loadouts.  maybe rockets free also and count toward bomb perks?   I don't know but... the beauty of it is that because it is a "perk" it could be adjusted.
lazs

[AtmkRstr]

What's so bad about suicide jabos? Against fields, they choose to go all the way back to the tower rather than remain a threat near the target.  In the case of Jaboing CVs, the only difference between a "suicide jabo" and an organized dive bombing mission is the group organization - the casualty rates are similar.

As it is today, a heavy bomber formation level bombing is likely to get demolished on it's bomb run.  If you add another 30 seconds to  that vulnerability stage, the chance of any bomber doing effective damage is even less.  The reason people suicide bomber formations is because they can't do much damage using the bombsite.  The 30 sec cure is worse than the symptome.

[popeye]

I like BH's idea.  Penalize a suicide attack by restricting the player's future access to ordanance -- sorta like the PNG thing in AW.  Maybe allow the player to load only rockets and 100 lb bombs for 1 hour after a suicide attack.  This would limit "die and repeat" attacks.

Also,  I like eagl's idea of adding more realism, rather than a gamey fix.  Limit bomb release according to flight parameters, structural limits, and aircraft type.  (The details will keep this board alive for years.)

Also, the bomb fuzing time could be increased slightly.

Also, I think the definition of a "suicide" should be should be somewhat less than 30 seconds -- maybe 10 seconds.

My two cents...

[Angus]

Wotan: I think the AH bomb arming relies on altitude above ground rather than a function of time and airspeed. I could be wrong but that's my feeling.
Anyway, a faster forward motion WILL deliver the bomb further, both in real life and AH.
About HiTech's idea...don't like it so much, but I understand the motive. Well...hmm...a timefuse of 3 seconds maybe...
Here is a downside I just thought off. Imagine flying into the blast of a severely delayed bomb. Or imagine flying into a building that just reupped because the one who bombed it died too early.
Naa...don't see how it could best be done, but hardly like that.
Besides, the true bombers are porked enough already...

[Wotan]

angus i know its not alt you can test it. its either over distance or it arms at a different rate at different speeds.

As I said at 325 (said 350 in previous post but i meant 325) at 750 level I can hit and kill a gv. At lower speeds the bomb wont arm. I assume this is a result of either distance or speed.

[Preon1]

HT, I don't like the idea

[nuchpatrick]

Bad..ju...ju...  No Doughnut!