On Suicide bombing.

[AKIron]

Consider this about bomb travel distance based on speed. A level bomber with a properly calibrated bomb sight going 350mph will be prompted to release further away the target than a plane at the same alt but slower speed. This results in the bomb traveling further. It's built in to the bomb sight when calibrated properly.

[hazed-]

As a perfectly simple way of restricting the angle of release for the heavy bombers how about HTC codes it so that if you dive in a b17 or lancaster over say 30 degrees the Bombbay doors simply shut.

then you cant drop your bombs.

or perhaps the increased stress and speed tear off the doors and damage the release mechanism meaning no further drops are possible for that flight.

As for the idea of 30 seconds to stay alive in order to have your bombs take affect I can see the idea is trying to stop those suicide bombers but it isnt that rare for the guys who try hard not to die but still get shot down by defenders or ack.
I feel it would penalise those that try hard not to die and are unlucky or not quite good enough yet to survive.


The perking of the bombs over 250lbs does on the surface sound like a great way to limit use by those who dont care about surviving whilst not severely punishing those who regularly try to live but are unlucky now and again.
If the player is a good jabo pilot and often succeeds he will build up a nice amount of 'ordinance perk points' allowing him to suffer the odd death to acks.
Whereas the pilot who constantly dives in unloads bombs and augers will soon find he hasnt the ordinance perk points to continue this behaviour.




I vote for Perked bombs over 250lb and limited dive angle drops for those aircraft that couldnt dive bomb.

the 30 second thing sounds a bit sweeping in its punishment, hurting legit users as well as dweeb suiciders.


PS why is this thread in the general forum and not gameplay?

[dr1fter]

if it is to stop suicide bombing then make it less time than 30 seconds a suicide jabo dies immediately.  set the timer at 1 or 2 seconds.

Drifter

[hazed-]

Originally posted by AKIron
Consider this about bomb travel distance based on speed. A level bomber with a properly calibrated bomb sight going 350mph will be prompted to release further away the target than a plane at the same alt but slower speed. This results in the bomb traveling further. It's built in to the bomb sight when calibrated properly.

also the 'arming' were often set by a small rotating blade on the end of the bombs that turned in the wind.Once it had turned enough the bomb armed.

A bomb dropped at 325mph with this device would spin that blade faster and possibly arm the bomb whereas the 150mph one would turn the blade less and possibly may not arm in time.

As far as i was aware in AH its the distance traveled by the bomb that arms it, not the height dropped.

if it was fast enough (350mph?) the low bombdrop can arm because the bomb 'travels further' along the ground in the time it takes to fall.The slower traveling one (150mph?) wouldnt travel the same distance even though it drops from the same height and so wouldnt arm.

[lazs2]

a lot of this stuff is pretty complicated and kinda.... anal.

i would suggest that you "perk" bombs over say 250 lbs and the attention starved suicide jabos would melt away like burglars who seen the owner was home and had a gun.
lazs

[Charon]

The idea is reasonable to me overall. It would reduce jabo runs where the pilots ride them in "just to make sure," and require them to both hit the target and pull out successfully. However, it probably wouldn't stop the "auger and reup" group -- they just have to count to 30 first.

A reduction to 3-5 seconds would equally solve the "just to make sures" while minimizing legitimate complaints. Even a flaming jabo that's missing one wing from AA should stay alive long enough for the hits to register, but not one that impacts the target at the same time as the bomb, or gets caught in the blast radius by riding it down too long. It will have virtually no impact on the "auger and reup" group, but then 30 seconds isn't that much of a deterrance either.

The release parameter restrictions also make sense regardless. And, the perked bombs and 30-minute to rearm provisions make sense too, particularly for the "auger and reup" types. Perhaps a combination of lesser adjustments to encourage a more realistic environment.

Charon

[hitech]

This is not ment to just stop dive bombing buffs. Infact I was seeing it more limititing jab attacks.

But wrather to create a need to live for all bombing raids.

On the realism side limiting dive angles (btw guys please stop using the word Angle of attack to meen the current dive/climb angle) for bomb drop is just as unrealistic as bomb delay. Neg G limits could be implemented, but that realy wont change any thing. When dealing with game play issues i'ts you realy need to think out side the realism onvelop. And try to come up with somthing that makes since, and does not stray to far from reality.
It's easy to say, hey thats not realistic, but what you realy wan't to ask is, is the change in physics realism (i.e. 30 sec delay) worth the trade off to a more realistic world play (.i.e it's not realistic to just dive bomb and not care if you die)

Eagl. Go suck an egg,at least jump on me for correct facts.
Bombs have had drag since 1.09.
Since you no longer care to play why are you here?


Oedipus: ) Why didn't level bombers like the B17 or Lancaster dive bomb? Many reasons. Mostly physical. So just add the missing ingredients to HTC so that they can't do it online in the arena.

You are correct, the physical resonse are you would most likly die trying it.
Thats exactly what im trying to implement.

Laz, im not sure that will give the will to live threw the attack im looking for.

Just haveing a new thought , havn't figured out how yet. But wrather than putting a penalty for not living. How about some type of extra reward in game play (i.e. nothing with scoring or perks) that has some type off effect on arena play?  My first impression it would not be enof to prevent the suicide attacks.

Also the system would only be implemented on static targets.

Damage on players would be as is now.


HiTech

[Eagler]

what about more severe - longer lasting, slower recovery from - black/red outs in a bomber dive?

you wouldn't be able to hit what you cant see

[Modas]

IMO seem pretty simple to me, in my happy little world... (course I'm on Lithium and don't feel a thing )


Bombers...  Angle of climb or descent greater than 5° (or some number) no bomb drop.  No altitude restriction.  Bomber did actually do very lo alt runs... Ploesti come to mind


Fighters...  Bombs must be RELEASED from the A/C and fall in ALTITUDE of a minium of 1000' (or some altitude).  Anthing less than 1000' no detonation, no release from A/C, no detonation.


Simple.


Ah.... Lithium........

[fffreeze220]

Originally posted by Midnight
No Way.

How could this even possibly work? This would be a horrible disaster for JaBos that are actually fighting to live.

Example:
[color = blue]You drop your bombs on an Ostwind and score a perfect hit. Now you start climbing away and during that 29th second, the Osti gets a lucky shot on you from 2.0K and kills your pilot.

Now the Osti lives and you are dead in tower, when it should be the Osti that just had 1000lbs of bombs dropped on his head.[/color]

bombs should explode on impact. The pilot shouldn't have to wait 30 seconds to see if his bomb hit the target.

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How about all external ords become a PERK
HVAR = 1 perk each
100 lb bomb = 1 perk each
250 lb bomb = 2 perks each
500 lb bomb = 3 perks each
1000 lb bomb = 5 perks each
4000 lb bomb = 10 perks each

If you drop the bomb while in flight and you die your perk is spent. If you land or ditch, you get the perks back.

---

You want to know the best way to limit suicide bombers?

Make some sort of penalty for death other than instant respawn.

Please don't try to stop people from 'gaming the game' by adding more gamey features. Why can't we step up the realism and encourage people NOT to suicide bomb by improving the rewards for landing a sucessful mission.

How about : If you die on during sortie, you get 0 scoring in all catagories for that sortie.

Best idea so far. I like it.

[Turbot]

My feeling is when a player does a suicide attack, they are not concerned about scoring.   I would say rather they are concerned primarily with dropping whatever target the are attacking.  In these instances, no amount of perk or score adjutsment is going to have much effect.

I get the idea this is hitech's belief as well when putting forward the delay concept.  For lack of a better idea, I think in concept it is a good idea, but 30 seconds is a very long time.  

However, I say this is a good idea with this one caveat - Against another player (I am thinking of GV's specifically) this delay should not be in effect.  Kill award and bomb effect should be as it is now (can you code this way?).

I wish I had some new idea, but I can't think of anything that would impact a suicide bomber's activity other than preventing him from accomplishing his "mission".

Edit to add: (CV's should also be considered static targets in this context)

[rod367th]

Do you know how many perks for bombing go unused. take away lazer ack make side cap cv suicide bombing will stop.

[hitech]

Exactly how do you get these perk bomb points with out having bombs to get them?

HiTech

[flakbait]

My 0.02 ¢....

1) Neg G's in four-engined bombers = no ability to drop

2) To add to HT's original idea. If you die 5 seconds after the drop and within 250 ft of the target, you get tagged with a bounty for, say, 15 minutes. Folks get some reward for blasting your suiciding little butt. Whether that reward is one free perked ride, double perks, 5 bucks off their next AH bill, etc... I dunno. Other lightning strikes (ie alternatives) include...
A: No ord you deploy for the next xx minutes does any damage. Guns, rockets, and bombs do no damage what so ever
B: You can't fly the AC type you got caught suiciding in for xx minutes. E.G. If you were in a jabo, you can't fly any jabo for a set time.
C: Deploying ord costs big time. 500lbs bombs would be 40 perks, thousand pounders would be 80 coming from your bomber perks. Rockets are 5 a piece and cost fighter/bomber perks depending on the plane.
D: Restricted to a given time period/era/ENY of AC. Get nailed once, you can't fly anything built after Jan 1 1944. Twice and the limit is Jan 1 1942, three times and you're stuck in a Storch.

3) No matter what, the bombs still do damage. Vanishing ord is generally a bad idea.

4) Dive bomb sights for those A/C that had them.



-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School
Put the P-61B in Aces High

[ghostbomber]

Let's keep the game realistic....if you get your bombs off before you die, they should still blow up whatever they hit, just like in real life if it happened.  Doesn't that make the most sense for a simulator?  What do you guys think?