Collision model SUX

[Innominate]

Originally posted by Karnak
The collision system in AH is the only viable collision system given the time delay inherent in the internet.

This is simply wrong.

There are several viable choices, even given internet lag.
1. No collisions
2. Mutual collisons, determined by one FE saying there was a collision
3. Mutual collisions, only when both FE's agree there was one
4. Mutual collisions, determined by the server
5. Independent collisions, based only on what your FE saw happen. (What AH has now)

Whichever choice you pick is going to have BS associated with it.  The question is which one causes the least amount of BS.  (And is really mostly a matter of opinion)

IMO having one person die in a collision, and the other going away unscathed is the worst possible scenario short of having no collisions.

[BNM]

I've been rammed by planes that appeared 150-200 away from me. Don't happen alot but it does. What are you going to do? I get close when firing usually within 250 or so. Many times I have seen the plane warp to behind me then I blow up and he is unharmed. It sucks but that's life. I have a steady cable connect at 60-70, flatline variance. I know it's not my fault, I hope it was n't theirs (intentional). I just think in reality if 2 planes collide they will both go down most of the time, don't you agree?

If a ram occurs from the front it should be visible on both players FE. If you get rammed from the rear, if it wasn't a newb you'd be dead anyway right? So I don't see the problem making all collisions have the same effect on both planes. I personally wouldn't care if it was both die, both lose a wingtip, etc... as long as it was the same. IMHO.

[SlapShot]

I honestly think Steve is stirring the pot here. He almost consistently gets double-digits kills and with an occasional collision, I find it hard to understand why he would whine about it. A collision last nigth must of pissed him off so he came here to vent. He knows that this has been discussed and debated to death on these boards and it hasn't changed and I don't believe that it will change anytime soon.

If people whine about collisions now, take into consideration Karnak's scenario ...

"Imagine if you died due to colliding with an aircraft that was 250 yards away from you on your FE. That is what it would look like 50% of the time if both people died when one FE reported a collision"

The whine would be DEAFENING !!!

If I died, after doing a nice barrel roll, avoiding a collision on my FE, because your FE reported a collision, I would consider closing my AH account in a heartbeat.

For those that want killshooter turned off ... I'll bet the first time newbie 123890 drops down on your six after you have saddled-up and shoots your bellybutton down trying to shoot the guy you just worked so hard to saddle-up on, you will be back on this BBS instantly asking for it to be turned back on.

[Steve]

Slapshot..DING!!!!
I indeed collided w/ a guy's 6 after I shredded his plane... on my FE I clearly ducked under his wreck.. yet I received a fatal collision.... thus the vent.  

[OIO]

Swoop: because you get yourself an even bigger problem: People shooting through friendly planes.

IMO,  a better solution would be to make the pilot BLACK OUT for like 5 seconds if he shoots a friendly plane with more than X bullets..where X is a number of bullets hitting a plane.. X can be like 50 or so, enough to not penalize an accidental killshoot (idiot cutting in front of you and your d200 target), but enough to penalize someone spraying blindly in a furball or purposely going after friendly planes.

[gofaster]

Killshooter has never been a problem for me.

Then again, I won't jump behind a countryman and try to steal his kill.

1 bandit with 1 friendly on the bandit's tail sounds about right to me.  I'll stay high and find my own food.

It also helps to check your fire when facing your own runway.

[Swoop]

Originally posted by OIO
Swoop: because you get yourself an even bigger problem: People shooting through friendly planes.
 

Yup, good point.    see what friendly debate brings?


Another point about your X system.......if you're flying a G10 with the 30mm then X probably = >50% of the ammo load.  If you're flying a Hurri MkI with 8x303s then X can probably be reached within a 1/4 second burst.  A specific X for each gun loadout is neeed....

but I quite like the idea.....

[Furball]

i HATE[/b] killshooter, i had 7 kills in a 110G2 and was killing the 8th, some moron dives infront of me, i stop shooting but 1 20mm hits him (i was outta 30's)

there goes my tail, absolute BS.

[Steve]

Gofaster says:
"Killshooter has never been a problem for me.
Then again, I won't jump behind a countryman and try to steal his kill."

Gofaster, this is not the event most of us are concerned about.  I have been killshootered several times when someone has cut in front of me and my bullets are already out of my guns.  Then, hit them with even a single .50 round and your whole damned tail falls off.

I've had friendly planes fly THROUGH me, causing me to killshoot.
This is very aggravating

[OIO]

Not really swoop. It doesnt matter what weapon is being fired.

If I was a griefer in a 109g10 and went on your 6.. it really doesn't matter if I shoot all my 30mm ammo on you and I dont black out, the whole point is: I cant shoot you down.

But OTH, if you were said 109g10 and I flew my griefer spitfire in between you and you d200 target, you would need to empty half you ammo on me before you black out. Either way, you dont get penalized for MY griefing.

Weapons with high refire rate..say the spit1's 303s, would still be hard pressed to put in 50 bullets hitting another plane in an accidental shoot-friendly scenario (50 bullet impacts is like.. 1 second burst? either way its not a "sheet he flew in front of me while I fired and I didnt take the hand off the trigger for 1 whole second" kinda deal...and lets say IF it still hits 50 bullets on accident, whats the penalty? 5 second blackout.. chances are you press autolevel flight and wait the 5 secs.. the moron that jumped in front of you probably killed your target or scared him away.. and if you had a con in your 6..well, you were screwed anyway ).

[Skuzzy]

Furball (BOO!), it's still an ugly tail.

[Shane]

what BNM said... i'd like killshooter to affect *both* shooter and shootee...


shootee takes normal damage, shooter takes it as it currently is.

as for collisions... shrug, i think what we have now, while frustrating for those times when it seems the other guy moved into *my* path and i couldn't respond timely to avoid it and eat the ram, is pretty much an acceptable situation. you see it you eat it.

and fess up, there have been times when both of you (all of us)  took damage from it, as well as times we came out on the "lucky" end.

[AcId]

Originally posted by Karnak
Imagine if you died due to colliding with an aircraft that was 250 yards away from you on your FE.  That is what it would look like 50% of the time if both people died when one FE reported a collision.

That did happen to me last week. I was chasing someone maneuvering for a shot and at D250-D300 just as I was squeezing the trigger BOOM
Server: you have crashed
Server: SomeBastardWithaPoorConnect shot you down.
Before you start suggesting there was another nme that happened to be on my 6, I verified with the SBWPC that he was the only nme around and he had no damage. I was quite pissed that he flew off with no damage and there was no apparent collision on my FE. I would've been much less pissed if he were damaged as well assuming something somewhere detected a collision as the reason to my demise.

As to the blackout suggestion for killshooter.....It sounds like it has promise. Maybe determine the severity/length of the blackout by how many rounds and what type hit the friendly AC 1 second per .303, 1.5 seconds per .50 ......and so on.

[Grizzly]

On collisions, I've had many cases where the other plane seemed to turn into me even though I tried to avoid it. (Of course, more often I just failed to avoid it, in which case I have no complaint.) I know it's hard to collide intentionally, and I understand that if you see it you are the one who can avoid it. But I wonder about slow connects vs broadband. If a person has a slow modem, doesn't he stand a better chance to survive collisions because he will likely get his updates later?

On killshooter. This is one I really don't like, especially when the bogie you were chasing gets a prox kill on you (another AH feature I think sucks). Usually, when you have a friendly in front of you, you can simply hold your shots. But many times a friendly dives down between me and the bogie while I am shooting. And times like when I'm trying to clear someone's six or kill vulchers, I inadvertently hit the friendly. Even a single long range .303 hit, that won't bring down a bogie, will disable or kill me. These things shouldn't happen often, but probably due to Murphy's law, it seems to.

An alternative, besides no damage, that I've seen used is to allow damage to the friendly, but if you kill him (or, in the case I've seen, kill two friendlies in a day) you get penalized by not being able to load any ammo for 24 hours. It was called Personna None Gratta and helped fill the ranks of Goon and M3 drivers.

[AKIron]

About the only time I collide is in a head on, whaddaya expect?

I don't mind killshooter. In fact it comes in handy after someone chases down my wingless or tailess kill trying to exlode them. Next time around, if I time my fly-through of their plane just right, satisfaction. The whining only sweetens the experience.