Collision model SUX

[Don]

Ack -Ack:

I disagree, it is too pat an answer to a legitimate concern. I have read similar opinions in here for a long time.  Being sure of one's shot does nothing to control what the other guy is gonna do. Two nights ago one of my squad mates damn near got me killed by killshooter; he flew right in front of me, breakin his neck going after the same target as me. I was bearing down on the guy, I was closer, he was behind me but had more E from underneath. He knew what he was doing, and I saw him at the last minute. I had to stop shooting at my target or I would have died. I only saw him at the last moment. In that case I WAS sure of MY shot, I had no idea about HIS shot. However, it does take two; there is a victim and a perp.

I have found inconsistencies with who is the victim and who is the perp in this game, especially where the collision model is concerned.  I have been the victim more often than not, and it is without rhyme or reason. A guy will head straight for me and the HO instead of using other acm methods, he will miss, I will register hits, and attempt to drop my nose underneath as we pass, he will hit my plane, I will lose a wing or something, he will continue flying past. Not fair, not accurate in terms of the actual circumstances but...pfft! Thats the game. I read somewhere on these BBs that those who have cable modems are at a disadvantage where collisions are concerned. I don't claim to understand the reason technically but, it seems the speed of the cable modem is more susceptible to being the damagee than the damager.

[Don]

>>I just think in reality if 2 planes collide they will both go down most of the time, don't you agree? <<

BNM:
I agree but, it doesn't happen that way a lot of times. What to do about it? Nothing, IMO. This is not my game, I just play it. If HT see's a way that would work for everyone then, at some point I trust he will make some changes. In the meantime, I just re-up and put it behind me.

[Sox62]

The only time killshooter gets me is when someone dives in front of me,or zooms through me from behind when I am already saddled up on an enemy.

Annoying,yes,but needed.

I shudder to think of the constant fragging that would happen if it were turned off.

[Steve]

Argghhh.

Instead of fragging.... whyt not jusst have the offending bullets just be duds?  Kind of how you cannot damage friendly buildings.

[Phantom4]

Collision:

No one really likes the current collision model but after much consideration, given the state of the art in computer technology today, I am not able to come up with a better solution.  Most collisions are the fault of the person dieing (most but not all).  I know that I like many others close to real short ranges and often ( maybe 5%) the killee flips up or side ways or ... whatever way I was moving to avoid the collision and I hit his wreckage anyway.  Frustrating? Yes.  Realistic? Probably.  The others are in front quartering shots, I seldom take a straight head-on if it is avoidable (and it usually is).  If the server could keep up with everyone positions real-time, collisions could probably be mutual and some of the other wrapage factors would be eliminated.  However that would need a Cray per furball to compute.  

Killshooter:

A necessary evil to counteract the juvenile dweeb that "thinks" it is funny to shoot down his teammates.  I once proposed  no damage (like no friendly collisions) but that would just promote the 30 person conga line (already too prevalant) all firing at the con.  The current system is better than most alternatives.  Tha being said I would propose that the damage from killshooter be limited to destroying the shooters guns.  Then, when someone swoops in front you and you accidently "kill" yourself, only your guns would be damaged.  This would frustrate the dweeb and give legitimate players a "chance" to disengage and attempt to rtb.

my two cents' worth - well maybe dime's worth in this case

Phantom4

[Steve]

Karnak quote:"Killshooter is needed to enforce a semblance of fire disappline. It isn't perfect by anymeans, but at least it forces people to not shoot through their team mates to get kills in a manner totally foreign to WWII air combat. "

And shooting your own tail off is less foreign to WWII air combat?

[SlapShot]

"Even a single long range .303 hit, that won't bring down a bogie, will disable or kill me."

LOL ... I was going to suggest to Furball that he fly the Spit V and he won't have that problem.

Those .303s couldn't shoot a goose out of the air with a stream of 50 hits. Three separate sorties last night, all I had were .303s left and lit up an A6M from nose-to-tail, an F6F the same, and an F4U the same too. They all flew off like nothing happened. No smoke - no parts falling off - nada.

I think it was when I was saddled up on the A6M with 700+ rounds when I started lighting him up, my sqaudie Mars01 drops in front of me (its a joke we have goin on - haha) and I layed at least 10+ .303s into him and I flew away with no damage, so I don't agree with the single ping log range .303 hit.

I digress from Steve's vent, cause he really understands the problem and %99.9999999999999 of the time deals with it just like the rest of us, but what is up with those .303s ? I just recently started flying the Spit V and once the cannons are gone, I just RTB. I thought .303s were a pretty deadly round ? NO ?

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by SlapShot
I digress from Steve's vent, cause he really understands the problem and %99.9999999999999 of the time deals with it just like the rest of us, but what is up with those .303s ? I just recently started flying the Spit V and once the cannons are gone, I just RTB. I thought .303s were a pretty deadly round ? NO ?

Don't give up so soon!  You can easily get at least two kills in a Spit V with .303s... and as many as five or six... if you follow a few simple rules.

First of all, get in close.  VERY close.  I'm talking 100 yards or under.  Don't both firing until you're within this range.  Second, you need to lay down consistent fire on the same spot.  Forget snap shots with the .303s; you're just going to waste ammo, as they really only work well when hitting the same area over a couple of seconds.  You can hit different areas with every single round of .303 you have and never damage the enemy plane.  

You can best do this by forcing someone into a turning fight, but maintain some speed, get in close, and hold fire until you're certain that you'll continue to hit for at least two seconds.  That's typically more than enough to disable or damage enemy fighters, and it only takes about 200-500 rounds of .303 to do it.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[SlapShot]

Thanks Lev ...

I have been landing 3-4-5-6 kills just with the .303s and cannons ... a couple of more would be nice.

All three of those scenarios were just what you described ... real slow and real close.

My mistake was laying the stream across the surface and not in a concentrated spot. Learned real quick that the snapshot is totally useless. Thats why I went with the more concentrated stream from stem-to-stern but I now know different.

But still ... shouldn't the .303s pack a little more punch than what we are seeing ? or does it depend on what I am shooting. I thought the A6M would fall apart rather quickly as compared to the F4U.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Steve
Karnak quote:"Killshooter is needed to enforce a semblance of fire disappline. It isn't perfect by anymeans, but at least it forces people to not shoot through their team mates to get kills in a manner totally foreign to WWII air combat. "

And shooting your own tail off is less foreign to WWII air combat?

As I said, its not perfect, but it is far better than any of the proposals I've seen.

[Grizzly]

Originally posted by SlapShot
"Even a single long range .303 hit, that won't bring down a bogie, will disable or kill me."

I think it was when I was saddled up on the A6M with 700+ rounds when I started lighting him up, my sqaudie Mars01 drops in front of me (its a joke we have goin on - haha) and I layed at least 10+ .303s into him and I flew away with no damage, so I don't agree with the single ping log range .303 hit.
 

True, it was an exageration, but the killshooter lethality seems to be greatly increased over normal hits. I really think it's too extreme.

[Gatr]

I would suggest rather than having ones tail removed...Have the killshooter disable your guns untill you rtb... A death seems a bit harsh to me... As it is not always avoidable or intentional...
just a thiught
Gatr
81st....

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
The best way to avoid killshooter is to be sure of your shot.  It's like HO's, it takes two.


Ack-Ack

Try dropping a bomb from 15,000+ feet. The drop time is too long to be sure of anything.

[Thorns]

I want them to turn on the friendly collision...at least it would teach a few you can't roll through another plane on the rearm  pad, plus you would have to enter the takeoff from either the side of the runway or the hanger.  At least they could put that into effect in the CT.........please.

Thorns

[SixxGunn]

Originally posted by Thorns
I want them to turn on the friendly collision...at least it would teach a few you can't roll through another plane on the rearm  pad, plus you would have to enter the takeoff from either the side of the runway or the hanger.  At least they could put that into effect in the CT.........please.

Thorns

That sounds good but friendly collisions also involve net-lag too.

Get one of these big BUFF squads like the DHBG that fly really close and accurate BUFF boxes and one guy with a warpy connection would wipe out 60% of the BUFF formation.

Get into one of these big furballs that are going on where things start laggin  and some friendly thats warping out to 2.0K in front then warps back to 3.0K behind and he wipes out about 6 peeps then these boards will really be lit up.

Collisions- I can live with the way they are here. I've played others that wingparts, wheel struts , and control surfaces falling around in the sky will damage or kill you.

KillShooter- If I could change it I would leave it just the way it is except no damage is transfered to shooter. Bullets wouldnt pass through allowing the someone behind to shoot thru plane to get a kill.
Griefers would be doing nothing but wasting ammo-would get real boring after awhile.

The one big PRO about kill shooter now is over the shoulder shooters have to be wary, one good jink and his over the shoulder attempt is twarted.

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Six367th
367th FG