Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: IronDog on April 11, 2008, 09:09:59 AM
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I'm tired of listening to the whining acm,furballing,advocates.People pay $14.95 a month to fly the way they want,in what they want.It would be nice if people would mind their own business.The truth is,that the furballing pretty much ended in WWI.Some of the high "choke" scoring pilots in AH are pickers.We need you furballers to provide us with targets,so keep on doing your Lufbery thing.You seldom see a picker belittleing a furballer that he has just dispatched,but the pickee rants and raves,and threaten the picker with the DA.Some are even threatning to quit AH if something isn't done to stop the way fights are taking place.I would submit a solution would be to have a fightertown like AW.The mob could go there and furball till the obese lady sings.The DA has a setup like that,but it is like the MA,but with smaller hordes.Next time you get picked,stop and think about the work the picker has put into his treachery.Can't we all just get along here and show some good sportsmanship?
IronDog
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you mean pick , run away, pick, run away, pick , run away, pick, run away
is that how it works.
there are some of us out there who only like to furball.
there are some who like to cherry pick someone who is already fighting.
there are some who look for cherry pickers and cherry pick them.......
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You seldom see a picker belittleing a furballer that he has just dispatched
I think I disagree on this. Whining, ch200 drama, yelling at & harassing other players isn't limited to any particular group. You may just see pickers crying less cause they are (naturally) killed less often than furballers. But if you manage to jump & kill them, the chances you are getting a nasty PM are as least as high as if you have killed any other player type. Maybe even more - we pickers HATE being a victim ourselves ;)
Furballers whine when their furball is being interrupted, pickers & vulchers whine when their unwilling victim isn't dumb enough to come yout of ack just to provide a poor-E target, Bonapartes whine because their team is soo freking dumb etc etc etc...
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It's simple really. If it's RED it's DEAD. Don't care how I get the kill, just as long as they go down. Pick em, turn em, burn em, blast em, ram, em, bomb em, who cares, just kill em.
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The truth is,that the furballing pretty much ended in WWI.
This is a game, not a war or a history lesson. Historical tactics don't have to be applied. A game is just about having fun and some people have fun when they can master a plane, outfly their opponent and shoot them down. Picking is so easy it doesn't deserve any attention, IMHO. But if someone picks me and even <S> because he thinks he did a good job, sorry, I'm not gonna ignore this. And you know, you were there.
You seldom see a picker belittleing a furballer that he has just dispatched,but the pickee rants and raves,and threaten the picker with the DA.
Lusche said it all, about this. I totally agree with him.
The DA has a setup like that,but it is like the MA,but with smaller hordes.
Nope, it's even worse.... it has become a sort of H2H pool, with green pilots and bad fliers. You can have good fights in MA.
Next time you get picked,stop and think about the work the picker has put into his treachery.Can't we all just get along here and show some good sportsmanship?
That's the problem, IronDog: as I said earlier, picking is so much easier than dogfigthing..... there's NO SPORTSMANSHIP in picking someone who's already involved in a fight... so the picker should expect no sportsmanship in return, since he's the one not giving any in first place.
And finally.....
It would be nice if people would mind their own business.
Can you mind your own business when someone's spoiling it?
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lol, we call you out to the DA because we know you'll loose and we also know you'll refuse because you know you'll loose. Bringing me to my next point: if you only engage in low/no risk attacks you'll never learn how to take care of yourself when the extra-high alt monkey pickers come to pick you.
DA?
:lol :lol :lol :lol
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This is a game, not a war or a history lesson. Historical tactics don't have to be applied. A game is just about having fun and some people have fun when they can master a plane, outfly their opponent and shoot them down. Picking is so easy it doesn't deserve any attention, IMHO. But if someone picks me and even <S> because he thinks he did a good job, sorry, I'm not gonna ignore this. And you know, you were there.
Lusche said it all, about this. I totally agree with him.
Nope, it's even worse.... it has become a sort of H2H pool, with green pilots and bad fliers. You can have good fights in MA.
That's the problem, IronDog: as I said earlier, picking is so much easier than dogfigthing..... there's NO SPORTSMANSHIP in picking someone who's already involved in a fight... so the picker should expect no sportsmanship in return, since he's the one not giving any in first place.
And finally.....
Can you mind your own business when someone's spoiling it?
ditto
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Furballers Unite !!!!
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lol, we call you out to the DA because we know you'll loose and we also know you'll refuse because you know you'll loose. Bringing me to my next point: if you only engage in low/no risk attacks you'll never learn how to take care of yourself when the extra-high alt monkey pickers come to pick you.
DA?
:lol :lol :lol :lol
Hey! You're copying my signature! I'm gonna sue you! :D (do we have a black skin for Frank???)
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I hate getting picked as much as the next guy but I have to respectfully disagree with those who whine about it. In the end getting picked is your own fault. You let down your SA and got tunnell vision on the target in front of you.
Pickers usually come in at about mach 20 with their wings on fire. When you see them coming it is relatively easy to avoid the shot. If you enter a furball when there are high altitude cons above the fight then it is up to you to exercise some good old fashioned "Situational Awareness". Do that and you wont be the victim so often.
More often the "picker" is really someone else in the same furball as you and is just clearning his buddies six. I fail to see how anyone can complain about being picked in a furball by someone else who is also down in the same furball.
:frown:
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Gianlupo you are a wise man sir :salute
there's NO SPORTSMANSHIP in picking someone who's already involved in a fight... so the picker should expect no sportsmanship in return, since he's the one not giving any in first place.
:aok They will never get it
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Furballers Unite !!!!
We already have!
:aok
ll
ll
ll
ll
\\//
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In the end getting picked is your own fault. You let down your SA and got tunnell vision on the target in front of you.
I don't think anyone is trying to find blame, moreso trying to inform a weak, punkish, cowardly section of the community on how to grow some balls! :aok
:rock
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Next time you get picked,stop and think about the work the picker has put into his treachery.?
IronDog
Picker work???
Cherrypicking and BnZ takes minimum effort and little to no skill. Point nose in their general area, dive, shoot, pull up, repeat. No skill, whereas a standard fight (Stall) you're constantly having to make adjustments, constantly trying to predict the next persons move, and always having to watch for the picking noobs. If you think the picker has to 'work' try fighting sometime.
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Picker work???
Cherrypicking and BnZ takes minimum effort and little to no skill. Point nose in their general area, dive, shoot, pull up, repeat. No skill, whereas a standard fight (Stall) you're constantly having to make adjustments, constantly trying to predict the next persons move, and always having to watch for the picking noobs. If you think the picker has to 'work' try fighting sometime.
lolz, most still have stall limiter on! :rofl
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I hate getting picked as much as the next guy but I have to respectfully disagree with those who whine about it. In the end getting picked is your own fault. You let down your SA and got tunnell vision on the target in front of you.
Pickers usually come in at about mach 20 with their wings on fire. When you see them coming it is relatively easy to avoid the shot. If you enter a furball when there are high altitude cons above the fight then it is up to you to exercise some good old fashioned "Situational Awareness". Do that and you wont be the victim so often.
More often the "picker" is really someone else in the same furball as you and is just clearning his buddies six. I fail to see how anyone can complain about being picked in a furball by someone else who is also down in the same furball.
:frown:
I totally agree on SA, 2fly,in fact that's not what triggers me. I rarely complain on 200 for being picked, yesterday I did (I think IronDog started this thread because of that) just because the guy shouted a <S> on 200, saying "I finally got you".... he was in a D9, zooming in, opening fire from almost 1k out and extending 2 k after a failed pass... there was a lot of fighters around, in the end I concentrated on a target and he picked me. Now, I'd have said nothing if he didn't <S> me.... there was really nothing to <S> in what he did.
Btw, I don't consider being shot down by people who are in the furball being picked.... the pickers are the ones who dive in from 3k on you while you're fighting someone else.
Thank you, Scot.
Skyrock..... that's a secret!!! :noid
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If one wants to be timid and lazy and never challenge themselves, that's fine, I guess. The simple fact of the matter is that you recognize, as we do, that without pronounced advantages, you're just another target. As such, while you may disagree with the concept that it is more rewarding to win from a disadvantage than from pronounced advantage, telling us to remain silent, while voicing your own opinions is a bit silly.
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As such, while you may disagree with the concept that it is more rewarding to win from a disadvantage than from pronounced advantage, telling us to remain silent, while voicing your own opinions is a bit silly.
OMG...I agree with hub on something!!! :noid
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lol, we call you out to the DA because we know you'll loose and we also know you'll refuse because you know you'll loose. Bringing me to my next point: if you only engage in low/no risk attacks you'll never learn how to take care of yourself when the extra-high alt monkey pickers come to pick you.
DA?
:lol :lol :lol :lol
lame
low risk in this game is the BB
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Next time you get picked,stop and think about the work the picker has put into his treachery.
<sarcasm>Yea, I was absolutely exausted with all the "work" I put in to getting these 10 kills T-Tues4-8 (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/files/murdr/film395_0000.ahf) I mean at times it took me one whole loop to move from one pick to another. Had to take a nap afterwards. :rofl </sarcasm>
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Picker work???
Cherrypicking and BnZ takes minimum effort and little to no skill.
Nonsense.
A bad attempt at BnZ fails as easily as bad ACM during a classical "dogfight". Sometimes it's even easier to defeat. Wrong judgement on ememy or your own E state, crappy aim (only short time firing opportunity!), wrong angle of approach, lawndart because of misjudging altitude needed to pull out...
Players that think "it's only point nose at enemy and press trigger" are rarely succesfull in any way.
BnZ/Efighting/ picking was the way I started in this game, and if it had been sooo easy, I would have had a superb K/D from start. Guess what? I did not ;)
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Here is a shocker for ya: everybody picks. Everybody. So please no complaints when you are nailed cause you let your SA slip. In 1 vs 1 or against a horde I check my views like crazy, and I highly recommend that all pilots do the same.
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Irondog you didn't even give me a salute in MW last night. Remember the one... where my 38 was at about 2000 feet and you dropped in from about 10-12k. I turned... you turned.... you hit the ground..... all I could think after that was how hard it must be not to hit the ground from that alt when trying to shoot someone on the deck. I never fired a shot, but I got the kill. If it is any consolation, I got another kill right before you arrived in the same fashion. Must be really hard work when your victim turns. :aok
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Nonsense.
A bad attempt at BnZ fails as easily as bad ACM during a classical "dogfight". Sometimes it's even easier to defeat. Wrong judgement on ememy or your own E state, crappy aim (only short time firing opportunity!), wrong angle of approach, lawndart because of misjudging altitude needed to pull out...
Players that think "it's only point nose at enemy and press trigger" are rarely succesfull in any way.
BnZ/Efighting/ picking was the way I started in this game, and if it had been sooo easy, I would have had a superb K/D from start. Guess what? I did not ;)
Lusche, I don't agree on this one. It's much more easier and especially safer. If you blow your pass, you have enough speed to save your skin. When you're on the deck in a furball, you rarely have the chance of correcting mistakes.
AND you're not a good example, pal, you're a good stick and I bet you learned really fast! :)
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You can see it as you want, you can blame, whine, accuse others, reverse the reality and so on.....but the real thing is that if you want to be good in combat sims , doing good ACM and good reversal is NOTHING if you don't develop a perfect SA.
Hence the frustration of who thinks is an ace cause he can roll on a dime and then is killed cause he is not able to relieve the threats around him.....
The only remedy is to go in DA to have a 1 vs 1 ....and forget about SA :D
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Lusche, I don't agree on this one. It's much more easier and especially safer.
I did not say it aint "easier" or safer.
I just vehemently object those BS statements like "No skill necessesary".
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You can see it as you want, you can blame, whine, accuse others, reverse the reality and so on.....but the real thing is that if you want to be good in combat sims , doing good ACM and good reversal is NOTHING if you don't develop a perfect SA.
Hence the frustration of who thinks is an ace cause he can roll on a dime and then is killed cause he is not able to relieve the threats around him.....
The only remedy is to go in DA to have a 1 vs 1 ....and forget about SA :D
Shut up, you're Italian you have no right to talk!!!! :furious
Lusche, ok, let's say it requires less skill! ;)
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Hey! You're copying my signature! I'm gonna sue you! :D (do we have a black skin for Frank???)
well I have been a firm "blame karaya" supporter since I've begun flying with him, thought I'd sport that badge. I've also always gotten a laugh outta your sig since I like the Ki84 so much...so I figured I'd borrow it with a slight adjustment. And yes, there is a beautiful black Ki84 by Krusty I believe that you will see me in. Hope you don't mind!!! I was going to send a pm but didn't realize you'd notice so quickly! It'd be great to get some DA time against you in it if you have the time!
<S> !!!!
Back on Topic:
So I'm taking odds on whether this fellow will fight a 1v1, or if he's too caught up in the "run from the co-e fight" crowd to attempt a sporting fight: gentlemen, place your bets!
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Shut up, you're Italian you have no right to talk!!!!
I inform you that I'm just riding my scooter; in 20 mins i'll be out of your house throwing stones at your windows :devil
You insipid furballer of the Era river :aok
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well I have been a firm "blame karaya" supporter since I've begun flying with him, thought I'd sport that badge. I've also always gotten a laugh outta your sig since I like the Ki84 so much...so I figured I'd borrow it with a slight adjustment. And yes, there is a beautiful black Ki84 by Krusty I believe that you will see me in. Hope you don't mind!!! I was going to send a pm but didn't realize you'd notice so quickly! It'd be great to get some DA time against you in it if you have the time!
<S> !!!!
Lol, no problem at all, I just wanted you to know I noticed that, in a humorous way! ;) If you want to fight me, no problem, I'm usually online from 15 EST to about 19 or so (I'm in Italy). If you see me in MA or anywhere else, feel free to PM me.
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I inform you that I'm just riding my scooter; in 20 mins i'll be out of your house throwing stones at your windows :devil
You insipid furballer of the Era river :aok
LMAO! Come here, you crappy Labronic picker, I'm waiting with my trusty Vespa! We'll joust it out on the river's banks! :D
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LMAO! Come here, you crappy Labronic picker, I'm waiting with my trusty Vespa! We'll joust it out on the river's banks! :D
I'd like to see a film of that :rofl
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Alright, I'll tell Nibbio to bring his camera! :aok
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Everybody picks. The ones who get called on it are the ones who are viewed as being not much capible of doing anything else. I was really tempted to quote and "fix" the starting post to that effect. Sorry, but if you are not well rounded in ALL aspects of BFM, then you're going to get challenged for even the hint of smugness for taking the easy kill. Whine about the whines all you want, but it won't change the unwritten rules of AH society.
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Alright, I'll tell Nibbio to bring his camera!
Damn...I was just half the way, had to return back home to take the camera and its beginning to rain...... :t
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I'm a "Picker"!
And I choose to begin "picking" with the Bombers, at altitudes of 25K or more, and then work my way down to the "fighters" who choose to hug the ack and the deck below 10K, who then dive further to the deck because their SA did not allow for anyone being faster, or higher than them to begin with.
And then...if I miss my pass at a target...I extend and regain altitude and begin again.
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here are the things that irritate me the most.
1.cheaters example: 1. targets you engage warps everytime you get within 400.
2. indestructable planes. i fired all guns into a spit 8 and he suffers no damage. distance 200.
3. cherry pickers. you engage a lower target and his buddys from above using the lower targets as bait to kill you.
4. vulchers. vuching is ok if you are in the process of releasing troops to capture a base. but vulching just to be doing it is not going to emprove your skill at dogfighting. just makes the kill cheap.
5. no team work. help out your country mate stop the every man for himself crap. :furious
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patches. bombers can defend themselves better than fighters. picking them is ok.
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I'm tired of listening to the whining acm,furballing,advocates.People pay $14.95 a month to fly the way they want,in what they want.It would be nice if people would mind their own business.The truth is,that the furballing pretty much ended in WWI.Some of the high "choke" scoring pilots in AH are pickers.We need you furballers to provide us with targets,so keep on doing your Lufbery thing.You seldom see a picker belittleing a furballer that he has just dispatched,but the pickee rants and raves,and threaten the picker with the DA.Some are even threatning to quit AH if something isn't done to stop the way fights are taking place.I would submit a solution would be to have a fightertown like AW.The mob could go there and furball till the obese lady sings.The DA has a setup like that,but it is like the MA,but with smaller hordes.Next time you get picked,stop and think about the work the picker has put into his treachery.Can't we all just get along here and show some good sportsmanship?
IronDog
i think we all understand what you're saying. fact is all the great aces scored their kills by picking.....notably richtoffen, and hartman.........
but i think what they're trying to say here is simply that since these are cartoon airplanes, why do you weorry about them? 8 out of 10 of the "picker" types will run away when they lose their alt advantage....and they eventually do when they're trying to pick someone half way decent. the furballer types generally don't run from anything.....they simply want the fight...if they have to keep climbing to you as they evade, they'll do it. i've had a couple that once i got to coalt with them, they ran......some didn't, but only extended, and tried to re-gain their alt advantage. i don't belittle anyone for fighting. i don't belittle anyone for not fighting either. i may if they ho or ram, but probably not. this is my escape from reality. i come here to relax and have fun. last night i had fun. i flew one lanc run, and had 2 or 3 on me....i died, but was a blast. i had an awsome 1-1 with nkl5......was a blast although i died.....but all i had to do both times was click a button, and the line chief gave me a new cartoon airplane. i do see quite a few rant and rave...generally they're lying about something when they do. generally, the ones that complain the most or the loudest, are guilty of the same thing.....storch comes to mind here.........anyway, that's just my 2 cents
<<S>>
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What AH needs is:
+Less 1:1 fights, we know these never happened IRL, so they can't possibly be fun in here, especialy not in arena meant for it. I.E. go to the DA and interrupt as many 1:1s as possible, that's what sportsmanship is about!
+Less maneuvering, this is just fancy hand-waving from 'furballers' who want to confuse you with pedantic ideas like "barrel roll", ACM, etc
+More HO-ing, bailing on-sight, suicide porking, 5" shells at dogfighters, spray & praying, running from 1:1s, sinking CVs with a furball in equilibrium (another fancy pants word that actualy means nothing from 'furballers'),
+More of those level-flight slow motion inverted barrel roll evasives that waste your time and theirs, this is dogfighting at its prime: absolutely nothing is really happening, both guys are just sitting there like vegetables watching a dumb maneuver that goes nowhere and does nothing. Highly recommended.
+More mindless killzones where the absolute minimum of maneuvering actualy happens, so that the quality of dogfighting in AH is rarefied to the maximum.
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no message
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i think we all understand what you're saying. fact is all the great aces scored their kills by picking.....notably richtoffen, and hartman.........
but i think what they're trying to say here is simply that since these are cartoon airplanes, why do you weorry about them? 8 out of 10 of the "picker" types will run away when they lose their alt advantage....and they eventually do when they're trying to pick someone half way decent. the furballer types generally don't run from anything.....they simply want the fight...if they have to keep climbing to you as they evade, they'll do it. i've had a couple that once i got to coalt with them, they ran......some didn't, but only extended, and tried to re-gain their alt advantage. i don't belittle anyone for fighting. i don't belittle anyone for not fighting either. i may if they ho or ram, but probably not. this is my escape from reality. i come here to relax and have fun. last night i had fun. i flew one lanc run, and had 2 or 3 on me....i died, but was a blast. i had an awsome 1-1 with nkl5......was a blast although i died.....but all i had to do both times was click a button, and the line chief gave me a new cartoon airplane. i do see quite a few rant and rave...generally they're lying about something when they do. generally, the ones that complain the most or the loudest, are guilty of the same thing.....storch comes to mind here.........anyway, that's just my 2 cents
<<S>>
:aok Completely agree
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the only reasons I play this game are for the fights,and most of the good fights come off the edge of the furball.
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I'm a "Picker"!
And I choose to begin "picking" with the Bombers, at altitudes of 25K or more, and then work my way down to the "fighters" who choose to hug the ack and the deck below 10K, who then dive further to the deck because their SA did not allow for anyone being faster, or higher than them to begin with.
And then...if I miss my pass at a target...I extend and regain altitude and begin again.
FIRST OFF......IT'S NOT PICKI NG WHEN YOU'RE GOING FOR BUFFS........second off......at least ou fight then.....extend and do it again.......but you're not going out 5k or k though......
<<S>>
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Nope, it's even worse.... it has become a sort of H2H pool, with green pilots and bad fliers. You can have good fights in MA.
Well said. Yawn City in there.
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Irondog, two wrongs don't make a right.
Let me begin my saying I have often been guilty of going into the DA with the better sticks in my squad and staying until the wee hours of the morning. The chess-game aspect of 1v1ing in there while shooting the breeze on vox is often 10 times more fun and relaxing compared to the utter chaos of MA engagments. Even when Lambo/Creton/2cmex/Etoh beat me 20 of 20 times.
The MA is what it is. It is chaotic, and no fairness in regards to the engagements is observed. It does tend to reiterate the old saw "Speed is Life" and the fact that while poor-turning bricks are harder to get kills in, they are easier to survive in. This is a reality inherent to what we are simulating.
I have turned and burned in the weeds some but generally find it frustrating, as the MA is no place to find respecters of clean merges and 1v1s. It just seems fairly pointless and no fun to me to deliberately put oneself in a position where you will inevitably be pick-ganged to death, even if you go down with 3 or 4 in the bag. It seems to me there must some sort of balance between a total disregard for surviving the sortie vs. a failure to make a good-faith effort to destroy as many enemy aircraft as possible, or the spirit of the thing is warped in one direction or the other.
One more thing: This is a game. Anything and everything that happens in it is actually totally unimportant. Let us not take it or our view of how it "should" seriously enough to slander people we have never met. Getting out of bed in the morning and going to work requires more "courage and skill" than doing anything in this game ever will. When one looses sight of that, one should consider taking a break from this.
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<--- thinking of a way to send this thread "over the edge" as soon as Skuzzy packs it in and leaves for the weekend [sinister laugh/] :D
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I'm tired of listening to the whining acm,furballing,advocates.People pay $14.95 a month to fly the way they want,in what they want.It would be nice if people would mind their own business.The truth is,that the furballing pretty much ended in WWI.Some of the high "choke" scoring pilots in AH are pickers.We need you furballers to provide us with targets,so keep on doing your Lufbery thing.You seldom see a picker belittleing a furballer that he has just dispatched,but the pickee rants and raves,and threaten the picker with the DA.Some are even threatning to quit AH if something isn't done to stop the way fights are taking place.I would submit a solution would be to have a fightertown like AW.The mob could go there and furball till the obese lady sings.The DA has a setup like that,but it is like the MA,but with smaller hordes.Next time you get picked,stop and think about the work the picker has put into his treachery.Can't we all just get along here and show some good sportsmanship?
IronDog
I'm trusting that this was said with scarcasm ID :)
If not....
The reason the picker says nothing is because he knows that he took the road of least resistance and killed a guy who was in a fight with someone else and potentially more then one someone else. The picker did no work and knows it. He just hung up there while the other guys on his team did the work.
If thats how he gets his kicks, it's his dime, but the guys down low mixing it up get frustrated that he's stealing someone elses work.
If I'm down low and slow in the 0ld 38G and I've been fighting a guy who more often then not may be in a position to get me, and someone screams in a light speed and hits my low, slow and big target, I feel as bad for the guy who has been working the fight with me.
The other part of it is wishing people would get over the idea of score, 'living' or whatever you want to use as a reason to avoid the game. The only risk we take is the fight, and since no one really dies, the reward is the fight.
I agree with you that folk pay their 15 bucks and can play how they choose, but as others have mentioned, it's hard to promote a style of game play that involves avoiding the fight. Might as well play offline if that's what you enjoy.
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The only risk we take is the fight, and since no one really dies, the reward is the fight.
Sig material there !!!
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how bout i got through my films of me owning Irontwit with him trying to pick me in the horde he runs with
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The other part of it is wishing people would get over the idea of score, 'living' or whatever you want to use as a reason to avoid the game. The only risk we take is the fight, and since no one really dies, the reward is the fight.
I don't want to misinterpret you. You're not saying that landing sorties/kills is unimportant, right? :confused:
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how bout i got through my films of me owning Irontwit with him trying to pick me in the horde he runs with
I don't run with a horde.I fly with the 71st RAF Squad,and they are a fine bunch.I feel honored to be a part off the Squadron.I won't get down to your level with the name calling.The squad you fly with could take a lesson from the 71st,as it appears to me that being rude and unsportsmanlike is a requirement to get in the Muppets.One of the 71st regulations is to not get involved with the name calling bunch,so I will cease my time wasting attempt to get some common decency out of your type.
IronDog
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I don't want to misinterpret you. You're not saying that landing sorties/kills is unimportant, right? :confused:
I believe that he is saying that all of those stats are unimportant ... in his opinion.
The 'fight' (for him, I believe, and me as well) is what is important. It's all about the fight.
Once the 'fight' is over, win or lose, the 'fun' meter is reset and is ready for another 'fight' to be deposited.
Landing is only done when there is no more gas or bullets or the plane is completely not 'fightable' ... if one lives that long.
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If I'm down low and slow in the 0ld 38G and I've been fighting a guy who more often then not may be in a position to get me, and someone screams in a light speed and hits my low, slow and big target, I feel as bad for the guy who has been working the fight with me.
The other part of it is wishing people would get over the idea of score, 'living' or whatever you want to use as a reason to avoid the game. The only risk we take is the fight, and since no one really dies, the reward is the fight.
You see, things like this fall more into what I would call "kill stealing". Clearing sixes and giving help is okay. Setting up a "drag and bag" kill for someone else is okay. This is teamwork. Scorning teamwork in a multiplayer game is folly. But then there is what you might call anti-teamwork. Giving up energy and wasting ammo to shoot at the poor soon-to-be dead con who already has 2-3 friendlies on him is not okay. You should watch their backs and be ready to engage any high E cons coming into the area. Unwanted help in 1v1s falls into the same category, when a Green guy has a con well in hand, your job is to watch his back and distract Reds away from him. I have more than one film of occasions when I have engaged someone up high, the fight spirals downwards as it tends to do, and "my" con gets eaten by the Green swarm. Frustrating, but what ya gonna do? And no Sir, I will not be chasing him down into HIS swarm, not worth it.
"The other part of it is wishing people would get over the idea of score, 'living' or whatever you want to use as a reason to avoid the game. The only risk we take is the fight, and since no one really dies, the reward is the fight."
This is an extremist attitude. There is little incentive or justification to fly anything less maneuverable/faster than the opposition, with the attendant greater difficulties in killing, if you don't place at least some value on the ability to engage/disengage with will and RTB.
Let's face it, if we restrict ourselves purely to turn fighting, all airplanes in AHII must bow down to the mighty Val and admit their utter inferiority :D
But yeah, some of the less experienced guys flying speedsters around should learn a technique besides OPHA, to avoid giving great, storied planes like the P-51 and FW-190 a bad name, if nothing else. :aok
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snip One of the 71st regulations is to not get involved with the name calling bunch . . . snip
IronDog
But, but , but..... you called me Shuffler :huh an an and that's a name :P
:aok
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I believe that he is saying that all of those stats are unimportant ... in his opinion.
The 'fight' (for him, I believe, and me as well) is what is important. It's all about the fight.
Once the 'fight' is over, win or lose, the 'fun' meter is reset and is ready for another 'fight' to be deposited.
Landing is only done when there is no more gas or bullets or the plane is completely not 'fightable' ... if one lives that long.
EXACTLY
if you land kills afterward that is just a bonus.
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I don't want to misinterpret you. You're not saying that landing sorties/kills is unimportant, right? :confused:
In laymen's terms: Stop using score/rank as an excuse not to fight.
ack-ack
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i like to furball, sometimes, but i also like to fly different planes every month so as to get better in each one!(god knows i need to get better) so when i am in a plane that furballs i try to do so, and i hate too get picked, its just human nature, you put effort into doing something right then it just gets shot too heck!
so when im in a plane that picks better than anything else, thats what i do! 50 cal.s blazing, screaming down from above, hopeing my victim doesnt see me or is too slow to turn out of my way, sometimes it works and wow its cool, sometimes it does not and i hit the ground at 500+mph, either way i was just here too have fun! and maybe get the feeling, that some of my hero's had, when they did some spectaculer feat in an airplane!! my favorite pilot was Richard Bong and i doubt he got all his kills in a turn fight i bet most came from the pick! i also like Chuck Yeager and the feeling i get when i'm nose up in a pony just waiting for that guy behind me too fall off so i can dog him all the way back down! or Robin Olds, pulling that p-38 out of that dive just feet of the ground after compressing thinking i can't believe i didn't die! and where is that bad guy?
so pay your money and have your fun and try not too let the other players get you down,,,,, or atleast dont let them see you sweat!
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I don`t believe Bipolar called out your squad? Irondog I see you know very little about the Muppets do you see me or Wax or a lot of other Muppets on 200 talking smack or on here the BB. Do me a favor if you have a problem with a person take it up with them not the squad :t
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In laymen's terms: Stop using score/rank as an excuse not to fight.
ack-ack
AN UNBELIEVER! KILL THE HERITIC!
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People pay $14.95 a month to fly the way they want,in what they want.It would be nice if people would mind their own business.
Too many say this, not enough do it.
In point of fact, if you let the furballers play the way they wanted and ignored the whines, then you wouldn't have had to come here and whine yourself, would you?
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Let the timid toolshedders vs furballers war begin!
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I don't want to misinterpret you. You're not saying that landing sorties/kills is unimportant, right? :confused:
If that's what is fun for you, then go for it. Every so often, just to remind myself, I fly a flight where I only fight when I can't lose. It bores me. Anyone can fly the fringes, hang high and only engage when it's a perfect set up, and burn off all their fuel and go home. I can do that, but it seems silly. it proves nothing to me, other then I can waste time avoiding a situation where I might 'die'.
I hardly fly an uber bird that can disengage and run in the 38G. And it's a huge target :) But there is great satisfaction for me in getting into the fight and seeing what I can do against the latewar birds and those with alt and E.
Again, since there is no risk of really dying, the reward for me is defeating the other guy if I can in those situations. I suppose it's why some of us go low numbers country too. I'd rather fight from the under dog position then from the one with all the advantages. I want to get into the fight, even if I might not win.
You've gotta play the game the way you want, as it's your dime and your definition of fun. I have to play it the way that's fun for me.
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I don`t believe Bipolar called out your squad? Irondog I see you know very little about the Muppets do you see me or Wax or a lot of other Muppets on 200 talking smack or on here the BB. Do me a favor if you have a problem with a person take it up with them not the squad :t
OH SNAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and when did it become a squad thing?
me calling you a gangtwit has nothing to do with squads...or am i missing something here...please inform me on this
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I agree on little whiners on 200. They Whine and Whine about how they got killed and why they should get some medal or something. Heres to all your whiners on 200, Maybe......JUST MAYBE if you DO keep up the Whining.....Maybe something Magical will happen? Your acting like a 7 year old. Just Shutup and Salute the Guy! :rock
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each to their own. Last night blue was an example of that -- in fighter town area you had varying degrees of "furball" mentality. And to that extent I even had varying degrees, but I played the way I wanted to and had fun. Played with the N1k to get ready for tonight's FSO, played with the p38 G & J just to see what it could do in that low mess, and took up my yak to work on the outer edges of the mess. Other nights I help take bases or defend bases. Last night my fun was to enjoy squad mates banter and pretend I could fly a cartoon airplane.
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im a "furballer" i think???? have always been, at least since iv been in the AH skies, i try not to complain about how other people fly there cartoon plane,
but i do find it quit funny when a high con tries to pick me, makes a few passes, cant kill me so "extends" away, then im fighting someone else, just to have that other nme con come back and engage me when im trying to shoot down his "friendly", they'll most likely get the kill on me, and they actually think they are "fighting".
just my $.02
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I'm tired of listening to the whining acm,furballing,advocates.People pay $14.95 a month to fly the way they want,in what they want.It would be nice if people would mind their own business.The truth is,that the furballing pretty much ended in WWI.Some of the high "choke" scoring pilots in AH are pickers.We need you furballers to provide us with targets,so keep on doing your Lufbery thing.You seldom see a picker belittleing a furballer that he has just dispatched,but the pickee rants and raves,and threaten the picker with the DA.Some are even threatning to quit AH if something isn't done to stop the way fights are taking place.I would submit a solution would be to have a fightertown like AW.The mob could go there and furball till the obese lady sings.The DA has a setup like that,but it is like the MA,but with smaller hordes.Next time you get picked,stop and think about the work the picker has put into his treachery.Can't we all just get along here and show some good sportsmanship?
IronDog
http://www.microsoft.com/games/flightsimulatorx/
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http://www.microsoft.com/games/flightsimulatorx/
this might be a better game for him.
Hello Kitty Online (http://www.sanriotown.com/onlinegame/index.php?s=introduction)
ack-ack
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OK,enuff with the furballers mentality! (http://ahevents.org/fso-related/friday-squad-ops-welcome.html)
:aok
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nice catch
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I'm tired of listening to the whining acm,furballing,advocates.People pay $14.95 a month to fly the way they want,in what they want.It would be nice if people would mind their own business.The truth is,that the furballing pretty much ended in WWI.Some of the high "choke" scoring pilots in AH are pickers.We need you furballers to provide us with targets,so keep on doing your Lufbery thing.You seldom see a picker belittleing a furballer that he has just dispatched,but the pickee rants and raves,and threaten the picker with the DA.Some are even threatning to quit AH if something isn't done to stop the way fights are taking place.I would submit a solution would be to have a fightertown like AW.The mob could go there and furball till the obese lady sings.The DA has a setup like that,but it is like the MA,but with smaller hordes.Next time you get picked,stop and think about the work the picker has put into his treachery.Can't we all just get along here and show some good sportsmanship?
IronDog
Entire Quote above.
The "meat 'n' potatahs of the 5.13a wall of text:
I'm tired of listening to the whining acm,furballing,advocates.People pay $14.95 a month to fly the way they want,in what they want.It would be nice if people would mind their own business.
It's a good thing you made it a point to put this at the FRONT of your post. Maybe you should have taken your own advice?
I would submit a solution would be to have a fightertown like AW
We had it 2 years ago on the Donut map.
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Gertrude: "Hit that dead horse!"
Heathcliff: "I did it ain't moving"
Gertrude: "Hit it again!"
Heathcliff: " I did it ain't Moving"
Gertrude: "Hit it again!"
Heathcliff: "Nah.................you do it"
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Thanks Mensa,I think I caught a nice stringer full.I could really care less,and I really had to clench my teeth to keep from giggling.Bipolar I hope your father gets well soon,and don't stay away too long.Skyrock up your kilt,and I'll be looking to pick you,or better yet steal one of your kills if you and that bunch of despicable dweebs comes to Knitland.
IronDog
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:) I'm just sad that some of my own were caught :lol
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I think it's all just a matter of opinion, and what each person feels is important to themselves. Would I like to see everyone 'fly for the fight?' HELL YES I would, but it's not up to me. People pay their own money to be able to enjoy this game, and enjoy it in whatever way they see fit. It may not be what's right to some, or even me, but that's not up to us to decide/judge on.
I started out the same way-flying with the group, getting alt, and flying late war uber planes. I enjoyed it, for a while. Eventually it got stale and boring for me, just continuously outnumbering the opponents, and having just about every advantage. I also remember that I would run when I got outnumbered.
I flew for score early on, seeing how high of a K/D ratio, among other things, that I could get. While I flew 'smarter,' I could definitely tell that I wasn't enjoying myself at all. I was too focused on scores, and not enough about having fun, and I wasn't getting any better.
I always wanted to an 'ace' so to speak. Even before signing up to the game, I browsed the forums. I read over the various descriptions of the planes that HT has up on the site, and I would imagine myself going along at 10k all by myself. I would imagine seeing a lonely con off in the distance, and turning towards him. I would also imagine a drawn out, swirling dogfight, in which I eventually won. I guess remembering that is what really turned me towards improving my game and becoming that 'ace.'
I decided to totally forget score. I flew for the fun of things, and to constantly improve myself to the point where I could win a majority of all my dogfights, and become that ace who roams the sky by himself looking for his next victim (and I'll let you guys know when I get to that status :D).
I threw myself into nonwinable situations. I tried new things and died. It bothered me, yeah, because I had always had the mentality of coming out of things alive, becuase that's how it was like IRL. But eventually I got over it.
I know fly for the fight. I would much rather prefer fighting 1v1 fights that I lose shortly after beginning (as long as I learn something) then go out with others and bag 15 and land it with little risk to myself.
I think we all eventually get to that point where we realize it; that a great 1v1 that is evenly matched, which leaves your heart pounding profusely, about to rip out of your chest, which leaves your hands sweating from being so nervous and in to it, and your whole arm shaking after it's finished is much more important no matter what the outcome, win or lose. I think it just takes some people longer to get to that mentality. :aok
donkey
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I would submit a solution would be to have a fightertown like AW.The mob could go there and furball till the obese lady sings.
IronDog
As someone pointed out, we had one but your fellow limp-wristed Rainbow Warriors decided that since the Furballers were having so much fun there, the Rainbow Warriors decided to ruin it for everyone. How you may ask? Well, your fellow limp-wristed Rainbow Warriors would come in and destroy the FHs at all the bases because we weren't "helping to win the WAR (TM)". On a side note, 2006 was a record year for giving out the Rainbow Warriors Flag for Toolshed Destruction and Milk Running Excellence.
ack-ack
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As someone pointed out, we had one but your fellow limp-wristed Rainbow Warriors decided that since the Furballers were having so much fun there, the Rainbow Warriors decided to ruin it for everyone. How you may ask? Well, your fellow limp-wristed Rainbow Warriors would come in and destroy the FHs at all the bases because we weren't "helping to win the WAR (TM)". On a side note, 2006 was a record year for giving out the Rainbow Warriors Flag for Toolshed Destruction and Milk Running Excellence.
ack-ack
:rofl :rofl :rofl <<S>> bro.
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If that's what is fun for you, then go for it. Every so often, just to remind myself, I fly a flight where I only fight when I can't lose. It bores me. Anyone can fly the fringes, hang high and only engage when it's a perfect set up, and burn off all their fuel and go home. I can do that, but it seems silly. it proves nothing to me, other then I can waste time avoiding a situation where I might 'die'.
I hardly fly an uber bird that can disengage and run in the 38G. And it's a huge target :) But there is great satisfaction for me in getting into the fight and seeing what I can do against the latewar birds and those with alt and E.
Again, since there is no risk of really dying, the reward for me is defeating the other guy if I can in those situations. I suppose it's why some of us go low numbers country too. I'd rather fight from the under dog position then from the one with all the advantages. I want to get into the fight, even if I might not win.
You've gotta play the game the way you want, as it's your dime and your definition of fun. I have to play it the way that's fun for me.
I don't see what's incompatible between putting yourself at risk and landing kills.
Anyway, I judge how I'm doing by my K/D ratio. Seems like the only objective standard for success. My $.02.
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As someone pointed out, we had one but your fellow limp-wristed Rainbow Warriors decided that since the Furballers were having so much fun there, the Rainbow Warriors decided to ruin it for everyone. How you may ask? Well, your fellow limp-wristed Rainbow Warriors would come in and destroy the FHs at all the bases because we weren't "helping to win the WAR (TM)". On a side note, 2006 was a record year for giving out the Rainbow Warriors Flag for Toolshed Destruction and Milk Running Excellence.
ack-ack
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rock :rock
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I don't see what's incompatible between putting yourself at risk and landing kills.
You can't do both at the same time, unless you've got a stalker or vulcher around. Unless you count tea-bagging the runway as a risk..
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You can't do both at the same time, unless you've got a stalker or vulcher around. Unless you count tea-bagging the runway as a risk..
You're basically arguing semantics now, saying that "risk" only applies to being a 90% favorite to die.
I think a lot of people want it to be the case that risk and landing kills are incompatible, and then reason that it's so, but that's wishful thinking. The furballers convince themselves this way because...
a) it makes them feel manly
b) it's a moral win over the pickers
c) it justifies impulse gratification which usually leads to virtual death, and most of us don't get enough impulse gratification in our everyday lives.
I try to land my kills, even after putitng myself at risk, because...
a) it makes me feel manly :P
b) it's better than a mere moral win
c) Silk gives me a rash.
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If that's what is fun for you, then go for it. Every so often, just to remind myself, I fly a flight where I only fight when I can't lose. It bores me. Anyone can fly the fringes, hang high and only engage when it's a perfect set up, and burn off all their fuel and go home. I can do that, but it seems silly. it proves nothing to me, other then I can waste time avoiding a situation where I might 'die'.
There is no way to fly where you positively can't loose, that is a paper tiger. Even if you are in a 262, there is always the possibility of another 262 bouncing you. No matter the ride, alt, or speed, I always work under the assumption the sky is crawling multiple, higher, faster, cons. Let me ASSURE you that if I am in my 190 and I meet another lone 190, I commence to dogfighting with him. Figuring the average level of MA piloting, especially in 190s, I know my chances are good. I can't say I do this without trepidation, as one of us is likely to end up picked by someone who happens along and has nothing better to do than pick a 190 made a vulnerable by getting into a turn fight. But hey, it is the MA and everything IS fair.
I hardly fly an uber bird that can disengage and run in the 38G. And it's a huge target :) But there is great satisfaction for me in getting into the fight and seeing what I can do against the latewar birds and those with alt and E.
People say things like this quite abit. Thing about alot of those "early kites" and "latewar uber birds" is that the latter were not really considered uber because they were easy to dogfight in, but because they were easy to use hit and run tactics in. In many cases, the early kites have a decided turning advantage. And angles fighting against a poorer turner is acknowledged to be the easier and more intuitive way of fighting. P-38G is a nice little turner. I certainly wouldn't think of saying anything against you for flying it. Flying anything that isn't a Spit, La7, or N1K makes you one of the "cool kids" IMO (Not that there is anything wrong with flying ANYTHING YOU WANT at all.) But still it beats many of the late-war uber rides you speak of hands down for maneuverability, and IMO, in a 1v1, the average gunner in the Mustang or 190 or 109K, etc, has a much harder job in flying to get a clean shot at you using E fighting tactics than you do evading him, and certainly has a harder job than you would if YOU were the one closing on his six with E in your better-turning ride. Please understand me, I don't mean this an insult against your skills. But an E advantage in a much worse turning plane simply does not convert to a kill on a better maneuvering plane in a 1v1 as easily as some of you claim. If pilot "A" can bounce pilot "B" in a Spit/N1K/Zeke/Hurri with a 190 or a Pony, and kill him in a 1v1 maneuvering fight, he can probably also win a "duel" in similar rides.
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That's not semantics, it's basic physics. You can't be at two places at the same time. Landing voids the possibility to fight to the last drop of fuel or round of ammo.
I think you want a lot of people to want it to be the case that risk and landing kills are incompatible, and then reason that it's so, but for that to be wishful thinking. You want the "furballers" to do it for reasons a, b, and c, because it'd match your expectations. The fact, though is that I don't bother rtb'ing 3 times out of 4 for none of those reasons. I'd wager morality has nothing to do with it for most other players, too, furballers or not.
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That's not semantics, it's basic physics. You can't be at two places at the same time. Landing voids the possibility to fight to the last drop of fuel or round of ammo.
"Risk" means the chance that you might not rtb, not certitude that you won't. The way you use "risk," it might as well be a different word, maybe we should coin it as "Rrisk" with a double R to point out just how rrisky we try to be! :lol
I think you want a lot of people to want it to be the case that risk and landing kills are incompatible, and then reason that it's so, but for that to be wishful thinking. You want the "furballers" to do it for reasons a, b, and c, because it'd match your expectations. The fact, though is that I don't bother rtb'ing 3 times out of 4 for none of those reasons. I'd wager morality has nothing to do with it for most other players, too, furballers or not.
Now you're getting silly. I wishfully believe that you wishfully believe that landing kills and risk are incompatible? Well, then you wishfully believe that I wishfully believe that you wishfully believe that... :P I think you're on the record as believing that landing kills and risk are incompatible. You have proved me wrong on this point: you don't believe it because of wishful thinking, but because you are talking about rrisk and not risk.
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I don't see what's incompatible between putting yourself at risk and landing kills.
Anyway, I judge how I'm doing by my K/D ratio. Seems like the only objective standard for success. My $.02.
Even K/D doesn't mean that much. Again it all depends on how you fly. I promise you that my K/D would be higher if I flew Spits and flew safe. I don't but that's my choice. I measure my success by how I feel when I'm flying. If I'm laughing and enjoying myself it's been a success.
Be clear on one thing. It's your dime and you do what you want to have fun. There is no right way, only the way that's the most fun for you.
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"Risk" means the chance that you might not rtb, not certitude that you won't. The way you use "risk," it might as well be a different word, maybe we should coin it as "Rrisk" with a double R to point out just how rrisky we try to be! :lol
huh?
Now you're getting silly. I wishfully believe that you wishfully believe that landing kills and risk are incompatible? Well, then you wishfully believe that I wishfully believe that you wishfully believe that... :P I think you're on the record as believing that landing kills and risk are incompatible.
If you take it out of context, yep. I'm saying you cant rtb to land kills and furball at the same time. Is that semantics?
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Even K/D doesn't mean that much. Again it all depends on how you fly. I promise you that my K/D would be higher if I flew Spits and flew safe. I don't but that's my choice. I measure my success by how I feel when I'm flying. If I'm laughing and enjoying myself it's been a success.
Be clear on one thing. It's your dime and you do what you want to have fun. There is no right way, only the way that's the most fun for you.
After playing some 15+ years (AW/WB/AH), I've found that (generally) the toughest opponents around are the ones that
hold a roughly 1:1 K/D ratio, and have huge hours (and total kills) logged.
I've never feared high K/D ratios or safe fliers - at least not when I've met them on equal terms.
But... like guppy35 said - it's your dime, spend it how you will: I have no grudge against any "score-hoar" or (conversely) "furballer".
Respect is earned individually :)
Slamfire
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Some fly till they die and get 10 pelts. Some get three pelts and run home to see their name in lights. K/D means very little to me. Fun is very important as I am playing a game where I get to be a fighter pilot for awhile. I also get to fly with Squad and friends no matter what team I am on.
As for the pickers, there is no greater joy than laughing as they auger. In my case I see more failures at it than successes. Since everyone is not able to actually be able to track multiple aircraft and react in a timely manner I can see where some would sit in the lawn chairs around the edges of the fight. Everyone that pays to play should be able to try to be the best they can be no matter where that falls on the ladder.
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There's one simple path that most players follow.. Once they realize that names in light are just that, a name in lights regardless of whether you vulched or turned the tables on a 4:1, they see that the real victory is in overcoming adversity. Victory with no risk is shallow, meaningless. So once they climb up the learning curve, they will probably get little satisfaction from winning a 1:1 vs. a noob, they want some risk to give their victory value.
That's where the real quality is. Not in doing something that's as risky as locking on missiles to a biplane that's miles away from your F22. Picking in AH is fine if the odds are against you 3:1 or more... 1 or 2:1, it's just cowardice.
And before anyone says something obvious.. I fly 152s against all the TNB planes in AH. I know what flying a "bnz"ing plane into a "tnb" fight is like.
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huh?If you take it out of context, yep. I'm saying you cant rtb to land kills and furball at the same time. Is that semantics?
This is different than your earlier claim, and yes, that is semantics. Risk and furballing are not the same thing, otherwise we are guilty of serious equivocation.
When you say "at the same time," I have to interpret you as saying "furball, and then rtb"... otherwise you're pointing out something everyone already knows by definition.
Anyway, I'm very happy the furballers will continue to furball, while I energy fight and shoot them all down, followed by a 3-point landing. :D
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Dude its a damn game...not Physics class..good lord
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To each their own is how I see it. As for myself, I'm not Saint, I have picked numberous times. I just try to stay out of 1vs1 unless the baddies is on my squaddie/countryman's six. I mainly B/Z because that is what the pony is good for mainly. I'll TnB when I need to, regardless if I have no chance or not, i'll do it. As for furballs, hell, I love B/Zing into hordes while avoiding baddies who are higher then me :aok
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It's semantics to argue that if you take the whole minutes required to RTB and land, you aren't actively fighting - in an argument where the difference between the two is the crux of the matter? You concede it's not, but add that everyone knew that already? LOL Is that energy rhetorics?
I don't see what's incompatible between putting yourself at risk and landing kills.
" I'm saying you cant rtb to land kills and furball at the same time. " = Reduced time fighting to allow for RTB = reduced time allowed for fighting = reduced risk. Is that equivocal?
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Furballing is what happens when good sticks get bored with energy fighting and say 'I can still shoot you down without starting from some kind of major advantage'. The fact that you have an advantage to start a fight is NOT a skill in this virtual world. It simply relies on the fact that the other guy cannot be bothered. Does anyone really think you're just the smartest pilot around because you are the highest?? thats crazy talk man. If everyone played to win from advantage like this the furballers would beat smart flyers black and blue at the altitude grabbing game, you have the advantage not through skill but because furballers give it to you and still stick around to fight it out.
the simple fact comes down to this.
If you can furball and do so regularly there is a good chance you are also skilled at energy fighting
If you only energy fight and never furball you are most certainly limiting your virtual skills and forcing yourself to be a run tard when confronted by equal advantage.
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"...Anyway, I'm very happy the furballers will continue to furball, while I energy fight and shoot them all down, followed by a 3-point landing. :D
[/quote]
lol and you think you "fight"
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Man this wheel never stops....you really truly don't have to justify your playing style..really, I mean it.
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I love this. Each side whining at the other.
I play every aspect of the game in every style in every plane. Doing so, I can't take sides in a debate like this because I'm not all the way on one side or the other. I do what I feel like doing when I log on to the extent that the situation allows it (sometimes there's just no good furballs, sometimes there's just no good buff targets, etc.). My "job" when I am logged on is to have fun! Nothing else. I'm not there to please anyone other than myself.
Courage? In a cartoon game? Give me a break.
I do play for score/rank to an extent but I'll happily dive into a me on ten to fight it out. Playing for score/rank and fighting are not mutually exclusive. The way I see it, fighting and killing my opponents is where I score and as long as I can take care of myself in a fight the score/rank will take care of itself (you'll notice I don't try to "protect" my fighter scores by flying in attack mode). I love the thrill of a good heart-pounding fight but if I'm bingo ammo or low on fuel or missing half a wing you can bet I'm getting out of dodge.
Whining on 200? Pointless. Whining on the BBs? Pointless.
I say go out and have as much fun as you can. If you lack the skills to be confident in a fight, learn them. If you decide you don't want to learn them, then don't, but you'll never get the full enjoyment from the game.
Now quit whining and let's go play!
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what if everybody where pickers, i wonder what the alt would go to. because everyone would try to get above the other. then it would take a long to to get to a fight, lots of time just riding.
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If you can furball and do so regularly there is a good chance you are also skilled at energy fighting
Mechanic,
You used the word E-fight, instead of talking about people who OPHA only and never attempt to kill anything aware of their presence, so I'm going to have to call you on it...
No, there is a world of difference between between a co-e "duel" between similar rides and trying to E fight a good-turning kite with a brick. Given pilots of equal skill, the latter is far more difficult. Getting a kill is alot easier in a ride that can out-turn/turn with and "saddle up" on what it happens to be fighting at the moment, there is not even a debate about this. In a flight sim, (as opposed to a real war) ease of killing shares at least equal desireability
with ease of survival, therefore equal dweebishness if we wish to speak in those terms.
Altitudes of the fighters in our "air war" will be dictated by the altitude at which the aircraft which actually win the war operate (bombers, jabos, and in our case, the goon). Since they tend to operate rather low in AH, and since local air superiority right over the bases is what moves the map in this game, its a low alt world there is virtually no action and not much point going above above 15K. Nothing to do with most players being too morally righteous to grab alt. 15K is not that high, 5 minutes or so in the worst climbing rides available.
If the strategy of the MA revolved around hordes of bombers tooling along at 25K, 90% of the action would be from 15 to 30K instead.
If everyone played to win from advantage like this the furballers would beat smart flyers black and blue at the altitude grabbing game, you have the advantage not through skill but because furballers give it to you and still stick around to fight it out."
There is no advantage which skill can give you in hitting the alt-x command :D And if one were to carry climbing to too much of an extreme, if you were hanging around at 30K in the MA for instance, there would be no point as one would be too high to protect/intercept, nay, even to see, friendly/enemy aircraft.
Circumstances also alter cases. For the lone P-51 encountering a co-e or better Spit16, it is entirely appropriate to try a turn or two to see if the Spit16 makes any mistakes, then bug if it does not. The P-51 is unlikely to survive a stall fight with a decent pilot in the Spixteen, and building a usuable E advantage will be a long process if possible at all. If we replace the Spit with a Hurri, then the P-51 can conceivably build a usable E advantage in a practical amount of time. If the same P-51 encounters a lone FW-190 co-e, then the P-51 driver will likely be the one pressing hard for an angles fight. The moral fiber or whatever BS we are speaking of in regards to the P-51 driver has not changed, merely the circumstance.
If you only energy fight and never furball you are most certainly limiting your virtual skills
I am a believer in keeping the tools sharp.
I was up until the wee hours of the morning last night in the DA with a squaddie, flying a low Hurricane MkI and helping him practice E fighting against a more maneuverable plane. It seems undeniable to me that in a 1v1, the man flying the Hurricane has the easier time evading attack and pushing the brick-flyer out in front than the latter does in trying to get a telling shot in without losing position. Then I was the one in a 109 and 190A5, fighting the Zeke from both E advantage and disadvantage. Once again, while the Zeke is quite killable with abit of E to work with, let me assure that the man in the brick has the harder task in terms of thinking one step ahead and gun solutions than the man in the kite.
DA and TA are open 24 hours a day and are a much better place to hone the skills than the chaotic MA. (Using the MA for practice is abit like going to a biker bar and picking fights instead of the gym to learn martial arts.) There is no requirement to needlessly sacrifice onself to the ubiquitous horde of gang-tards by getting into a stall fight right in the middle of them,for the learning process.
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How about we agree to disagree and go shoot each other down? :devil
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It's semantics to argue that if you take the whole minutes required to RTB and land, you aren't actively fighting - in an argument where the difference between the two is the crux of the matter? You concede it's not, but add that everyone knew that already? LOL Is that energy rhetorics? " I'm saying you cant rtb to land kills and furball at the same time. " = Reduced time fighting to allow for RTB = reduced time allowed for fighting = reduced risk. Is that equivocal?
Moot, you're still adding more to what you said before, but passing it off as the same thing. Arguing with me has caused you take better positions that are more clear than before. :rock.
What I said was equivocal was to treat as interchangeable "furballing" and "risk."
Still, the more the argument takes on the look of a definition instead of an empirical claim, the less it becomes worth fighting over.
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what if everybody where pickers, i wonder what the alt would go to. because everyone would try to get above the other. then it would take a long to to get to a fight, lots of time just riding.
You hit it right on the head.W/O furballers pickers,bnz'ers,E fighters,tweeners, would have nothing to do.It all comes togather in a nice WWII flight sim called Aces High.
IronDog
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This is a game, not a war or a history lesson. Historical tactics don't have to be applied. A game is just about having fun and some people have fun when they can master a plane, outfly their opponent and shoot them down. Picking is so easy it doesn't deserve any attention, IMHO. But if someone picks me and even <S> because he thinks he did a good job, sorry, I'm not gonna ignore this. And you know, you were there.
Lusche said it all, about this. I totally agree with him.
Nope, it's even worse.... it has become a sort of H2H pool, with green pilots and bad fliers. You can have good fights in MA.
That's the problem, IronDog: as I said earlier, picking is so much easier than dogfigthing..... there's NO SPORTSMANSHIP in picking someone who's already involved in a fight... so the picker should expect no sportsmanship in return, since he's the one not giving any in first place.
And finally.....
Can you mind your own business when someone's spoiling it?
You pretty much said it all and I agree with it, except the DA isn't that great of place to find a fight. Unless you get someone to 1 on 1 with you. The furball lake is worse than the MA's with noobs and gang tards.
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You hit it right on the head.W/O furballers pickers,bnz'ers,E fighters,tweeners, would have nothing to do.It all comes togather in a nice WWII flight sim called Aces High.
IronDog
It doesn't mesh together because pickers "depend" on getting easy kills when the other guy is busy fighting. A pick tard adds no benifit to the actual fight, they are leeches. Hence the reason people get pissed of at pick dweebs. There is a major diffrence in keeping your alt and mastering energy fighting vs being a picktard.
Not to mention 80% of the time when you go after a picktard they run off to their 5 buddies because 9 times out of 10 they can't fight their way out of a paper bag in a 1 on 1 at equal alt. Soon as they lose the advantage it's run to the deck like a school girl rather than actually fight and try to learn something.
I'm not a big fan of furballs myself, because it's ruled by the gang tard mentality. I like 1 on 1 fights or maybe a good 1 vs 2 but in this day and age it's always very hard to find them in the MA's. Well not with out the picktards and gangtards showing up. In short this game is full of tards and dweebs that think landing 5 or 6 noob kills is more impressive than fighting it out in a 1 on 1 with a good stick.
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Furballers UNITE! :salute
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I never understood why someone would furball or pick, when there is vulchin 2 B done
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Mechanic,
You used the word E-fight, instead of talking about people who OPHA only and never attempt to kill anything aware of their presence, so I'm going to have to call you on it...
{SNIP}
good post, i am afraid i disagree with you on certain points. E fighting covers it all from skilled killing to scared 'pick tards'. it's all a form of 'fighting' using your 'energy' as a weapon.
on a different note, you know what i think? i think that alot of people damning furballing are flying planes unsuited to furballing on purpose to excuse themself from learning a bit about turn fighting. If you are so very plane dependant i suggest you either choose another plane or find a way of flying your plane without being a weenie about it. personaly i love to furball in the mosquito.
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Man this wheel never stops....you really truly don't have to justify your playing style..really, I mean it.
Just curious....you the Sick Pup Rhino?
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on a different note, you know what i think? i think that alot of people damning furballing are flying planes unsuited to furballing on purpose to excuse themself from learning a bit about turn fighting. If you are so very plane dependant i suggest you either choose another plane or find a way of flying your plane without being a weenie about it. personaly i love to furball in the mosquito.
You can furball in any plane, but we all know some aircraft are better suited to it than others. Your mosquito is an unpopular choice, at least in the furballs I see.
I don't know about other so-called pick-tards, but I started off as a furballer... I flew SpitV/IX's, 109F's in WB 1.x, and then the Ki84 when version 1.11 came out. Maybe because of the energy fighting potential of these aircraft, I soon became aware that I was more deadly and survived more often once I stopped hanging on the stall-horn half the time. Then I tried the P-47D, F4U, P-51, 190 and 109K... Then I never went back to those oh-so-romantic furballs, where men are men and everyone else is in a Spixteen (except for the occasional guilty pleasure in the HurriIIc when it came out in 2.x).
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on a different note, you know what i think? i think that alot of people damning furballing are flying planes unsuited to furballing on purpose to excuse themself from learning a bit about turn fighting. If you are so very plane dependant i suggest you either choose another plane or find a way of flying your plane without being a weenie about it. personaly i love to furball in the mosquito.
Well, like I wrote, I have hours and hours of turn n' burn practice in the DA under my belt, and abit in the MA to boot. It is fun. But in the madness of the MA, I think such planes/tactics are not a way of life, they are a way of death. Which is fine if it suits you. But I see alot of people who purportedly do not care one whit about their cartoon "death" complaining about the circumstances of their cartoon deaths.
I fly the planes MOST suited to a furball-ones that can move through the furball at high speed taking shots, zooming up to do it again, and leave the 9 legions of zombie gang tards in the dust when nessecary. I have yet to see a huge fight where everyone comes in co-alt co-e, pairs off, and duels with clean merges, with no uber-planes jumping on lesser endowed planes (The P-40s fight the P-40s, the Spit16s fight the Spit16s, etc and so forth). At least half of the kills in a furball will be out-and-out picks with one plane bouncing the other unaware during an engagment with all the advantages. The only difference between a picking 190D9 and a picking HurriIIc in a furball is average airspeed...and the fact that the latter will typically have an easier gun solution. Hardly grounds for one side or the other to get up on the soap box and proclaim their righteousness.
(Lets look at this for a moment. You hate being picked out of the middle of a fair fight, correct? So you've just turned and burned your heart out in a stall fight, and you are in the saddle, ready to consumate your well-earned kill, when you get a check 6. Would you rather the con bearing down on your 6 be A. a P51D barrelling in from orbit at 500mph, B. a HurriIIc approaching "just fast enough"? Which is easier to avoid? Be honest. I think you must admit that while everyone hates getting picked, the BnZ pickers moving at Mach .65 or so are most benign of the breed.)
For the record, I do NOT come in high looking to steal some green guy's hard earned kill by busting up a 1v1. That is the lowest of the low behavior, but it has a proper name-kill stealing, why don't we just call it that? But it happens to me often enough, I'll attack a lone spit high say, the maneuvers will cause us to be descending, the spit will do a break, and then a green guy or three will take the opportunity to saddle on them while I'm doing my high yo-yo. Mind you, often enough this is a con that would be bouncing THEM with an alt advantage if not for me. So rather than waste my time, ammo, and "E" fighting three friendlies for a 1/5th chance of a kill and a 50/50 chance of dying to killshooter, I'll often just let go, zoom back up, and be watching their backs for them (I'm soft-hearted that way).
Plane choice is a paper-rock-scissors thing my friend. The Spit16 absolutely trumps the 190D9 in terms of which one is better suited to winning a fair duel...yet the latter is better suited to surviving chaotic multi-bandit enagements in many ways. The ironic part here is that a BnZ plane often allows for LESS "timid" flying because it can attack greater numbers more recklessly with a decent chance of surviving, as opposed a slower TnB type. I don't hunt in sectors where the green bar dwarfs the red, because it is harder to fight numerous green guys for limited kills than it is to fight red guys for survival, especially in a BnZ aircraft. And I've often paired with a wingman, climbed, and gone behind the lines where the enemy was massing an attack, for the purpose of disrupting them before they get to our territoy. (No kills are nessecary to make such a mission a success. If an enemy plane is damaged so that it lands, that is small help for our side, same thing with forcing them to give up alt, throwing their coordination/timeline off, or forcing jabos to skin their ordinance. Any of these things can make me about as happy as RTBing with kills.)
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Here's a new bend on it. I may not like enemy pickers but I am getting particularly tired of teamates diving into my fight to grab the kill that I just did all the work for. Just plain rude.
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Just curious....you the Sick Pup Rhino?
Nope, sorry wrong guy. I'm Phan in the MA.
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It doesn't mesh together because pickers "depend" on getting easy kills when the other guy is busy fighting. A pick tard adds no benifit to the actual fight, they are leeches. Hence the reason people get pissed of at pick dweebs. There is a major diffrence in keeping your alt and mastering energy fighting vs being a picktard.
Not to mention 80% of the time when you go after a picktard they run off to their 5 buddies because 9 times out of 10 they can't fight their way out of a paper bag in a 1 on 1 at equal alt. Soon as they lose the advantage it's run to the deck like a school girl rather than actually fight and try to learn something.
I'm not a big fan of furballs myself, because it's ruled by the gang tard mentality. I like 1 on 1 fights or maybe a good 1 vs 2 but in this day and age it's always very hard to find them in the MA's. Well not with out the picktards and gangtards showing up. In short this game is full of tards and dweebs that think landing 5 or 6 noob kills is more impressive than fighting it out in a 1 on 1 with a good stick.
Funny, it looks to me like you just enjoy calling people names.
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You want to know what pisses off furballers? The situation tonight in the MA. In LWORANGE the Bish were outnumbered a bit, but not by a lot, something like bish:100 knit:120 rook:130. Very workable odds... until the score-potatos and gang-bangers get a hold of the situation. I made 1 film just to check the numbers and there were no less than 40 rooks attacking 1 single base (that were in range of my film).
I took some screen shots of the clipboard map, then in paintshop highlighted the areas of engagement based on the radar BAR.
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z125/JB73Mustaine/01.jpg)
now with the icons enabled I overlayed the same circles:
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z125/JB73Mustaine/02.jpg)
Notice that there is almost no fight except on the outnumbered country. This is not a bish, knit, or rook thing, it is a hoard thing.
(HTC BTW I wish you'd allow the GUI to allow the changing of size for the font for base ID's and maybe even the base icon size)
I was already choosing to fly for the "little guy" hoping for fights and possibly some more "action", I sure got it.
So in that situation overwhelmingly out numbered (and I am a suck pilot) I can either: A log off. B: change arenas to the same map and country position in LWBLUE. C: change sides to the "horde" and help gang-bang the bishops getting cheap boring kills on guys that can't even get in the air.
You guys that want to "win the war" keep fudging it up for people looking for some air to air combat fun, next thing you know all you'll have is nothing to fight. You also forget the second you "win the war" the countdown for the arena reset is on for a fresh new war. Yeah you win, now you have to start all over again. Oh yeah, you do get 25 fighter perks closer to being able to auger another jet, so you can try and win more "wars" so maybe one day you can fly that jet into the ground again.
<EDIT> BTW in case you were wondering my choice... A log off and say to hell with wasting my time. this is a game, games are meant to be fun.
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Good post Dave. Anyone who knows me, knows I no longer care about "free perks" from a reset. I'd rather fight.
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thanks Jay, I will say this, I am about 75% with the rest of the Muppets in giving up AH once and for all.
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Mustaine:
Or maybe D: Take off from a back country base in your trusty D9, with a wingman or two preferably, get some alt, come in high and kill/pester the gang over your base. (I am a TERRIBLE shot so I fall more into the pester category) Better, try to bounce them in transit, when many of them won't even be checking their sixes for you, and get some vengeance that way. Commit a little aerial murder, ruin some sorties, put a little general dissaray into their midst, put the fear of God into the horde, so that they sprain their thumbs working the hatswitch to scan the sky for "Huns in the Sun", and if luck is with you, get clean away with your dirty deeds. Its a good thing....
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Very good post Dave. I have to agree with you the way things are going there wont be any fights in the MA. The few that you can find will just turn into a mess of giant hoards with a win the war attitude.
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I never understood why someone would furball or pick, when there is vulchin 2 B done
personally i think vulching is much worse than picking,
on another note, i had some great fights tonights, was out numberd mostly and still came away with 30 kills.
although i wanted to defend the "all spit 16 drivers " are lame comment so i had woodard school me in how sweet an f6f can fight!!! man i shoulda waited till it was the "all hurri drivers are HOers..."
<S> Wood great flying
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Very good post Dave. I have to agree with you the way things are going there wont be any fights in the MA. The few that you can find will just turn into a mess of giant hoards with a win the war attitude.
Personally, I do not fly to "win the war," but glory to all of those who do. I wish I could have fun by trying to win the war. It would make the game a lot more fun to me. I would prefer to "win the war" according to something approximating historical circumstances... Still, trying to win the war is healthy fun; complaining and trying to gain the moral high-ground against those who do try to win the war, instead of stopping them, is laughable.
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Personally, I do not fly to "win the war," but glory to all of those who do. I wish I could have fun by trying to win the war. It would make the game a lot more fun to me. I would prefer to "win the war" according to something approximating historical circumstances... Still, trying to win the war is healthy fun; complaining and trying to gain the moral high-ground against those who do try to win the war, instead of stopping them, is laughable.
But surely you can't deny that the mentality of those "win the war" folks that we have now is killing the whole 'dogfight,' '1v1,' 'mono y mono' aspect which is what the game is about, as I believe HT said that dogfighting is the main purpose of this game, and the capture system was put in here to help initiate that more.
And no, hoarding, ganging, and vulching is not dogfighting.
I'm not saying that this doesn't happen in furballs, in fact I see it in furballs all the time. I see it everywhere though.
And just for the record I guess... I could be viewed as a furballer, but that's only when the other option is base taking. I actually really despise big mindless furballs. The only reason I fly in them is 1) squad does and 2) it's a tad more fun/less annoying then base taking. I would much rather fly around by myself and find a nice one on one (even if I lose horribly). I wouldn't mind a nice little 3v3/4v4 where there is some symbolence of sportsmanship and honor, but sadly I can very rarely find any of that in the MA's anymore.
donkey
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But surely you can't deny that the mentality of those "win the war" folks that we have now is killing the whole 'dogfight,' '1v1,' 'mono y mono' aspect which is what the game is about, as I believe HT said that dogfighting is the main purpose of this game, and the capture system was put in here to help initiate that more.
Yes, I agree that winning the war is incompatible with fair, 1vs1 fights. If HT actually said that the capture system is supposed to facilitate these kind of fights, then I am speechless. :eek: Can you quote HT on this?
If I wanted to facilitate 1vs1 fights, then I wouldn't build squads into the game architecture; that's step 1. :noid
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Sometimes, the whining is funny. I killed some guy in a P-51. He was mad cause he thought he could out turn me. But not after I hit a couple notches of P-47 flaps.
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Yes, I agree that winning the war is incompatible with fair, 1vs1 fights. If HT actually said that the capture system is supposed to facilitate these kind of fights, then I am speechless. :eek: Can you quote HT on this?
If I wanted to facilitate 1vs1 fights, then I wouldn't build squads into the game architecture; that's step 1. :noid
I'll see if I can find the quote (or if someone else can). Like I said, I believe that's what I've heard/seen, but I could be wrong, and if I am I apologize. In the meantime though, I'll try to find it. And I guess perhaps not just 1v1's (as that would be hard), but I definitely don't think it was just mindless hoards also.
donkey
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If I wanted to make a WWII air combat game around fair fights, not just 1vs1 but many vs many, I would start with a dueling arena and go from there. After 1vs1 fights, there would be 2vs2 fights. Then 3vs3, and so on.
Once you got to many vs. many, e.g. 10 vs 10 and more than that, the faster, more heavily armed aircraft would win, other things being equal. Perhaps the furballers, that is, the stall-fighters, would complain just the same. :rolleyes:
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Probably what you were thinking of Donkey...
Some play the game to fulfill the actual parameters that it was designed for, which is to overcome and conquer bases, and eventually the country, thus winning the war/game.
This is a false assumption.
The game was designed to have fun at different types of combat. Conquering bases is just a means to promote combat and hence fun. But by no means is it more or less justified than going out and just mixing it up.
HiTech
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There you are. Look, you just need to fly other things besides that Spixteen, or that N1k. I got that way. Going from La7 to P-47D40/F4U-1D. I went through the lines of "dweeb" planes and now the planes that pick people.
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There you are. Look, you just need to fly other things besides that Spixteen, or that N1k. I got that way. Going from La7 to P-47D40/F4U-1D. I went through the lines of "dweeb" planes and now the planes that pick people.
When you hit the HO planes, try out the B25H...If the cannon doesn't screw em up, the sheer amount of .50s will...
:noid
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Personally, I do not fly to "win the war," but glory to all of those who do. I wish I could have fun by trying to win the war. It would make the game a lot more fun to me. I would prefer to "win the war" according to something approximating historical circumstances... Still, trying to win the war is healthy fun; complaining and trying to gain the moral high-ground against those who do try to win the war, instead of stopping them, is laughable.
how many times you gonna say "win the war" ?
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You pretty much said it all and I agree with it, except the DA isn't that great of place to find a fight. Unless you get someone to 1 on 1 with you. The furball lake is worse than the MA's with noobs and gang tards.
Crockett..... that's what I said, too! ;)
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here's a thought.
wouldn't it be "interesting" if all the "furballers" started porking.
t'is rather difficult for the bad guys to take bases without troops and ord.
just a quick flight to hit a strat target at an enemy field and the hoarding "win the war types" would be stopped cold.
one hop.
10-15 min. of ones time.
no more "win the war".
hmmmmm....................... ............
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Sure, Lute, you're right, but this thread topic is more about being picked while you fight than about the "win the war" mentality.... of course, it derailed a bit. ;)
Anaxagoras, furballing is not synonymous of stall-fighting.
BnZ, I want to reply to your last posts, but they're so thick a text-wall that I'll need some free time! :lol
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Sure, Lute, you're right, but this thread topic is more about being picked while you fight than about the "win the war" mentality.... of course, it derailed a bit. ;)
I thought the community is calling all the timid hoard flying chery pickers "win the war types". (i.e. things that take little to no skill)
Just as they call the players that like the art of the Aerial Combat over all else "furballers". (i.e. took the time to actually learn how to fight)
Let me know if i'm not thinkin' correctly, as that has been known to happen (and much more often as of late).
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Funny, it looks to me like you just enjoy calling people names.
tard
j/k... it's only when they deserve it. I have zero respect at all for gangtards and picktards. I could really care less what they think of me.
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Still, trying to win the war is healthy fun; complaining and trying to gain the moral high-ground against those who do try to win the war, instead of stopping them, is laughable.
Even more laughable is coming to the bbs, joining a discussion, and calling the posters whining for stating their opinion.....pot....meet kettle! :aok
PS SkyRock<-----owns Anaxogoras! :aok
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Perhaps the furballers, that is, the stall-fighters, would complain just the same. :rolleyes:
Perhaps you just don't like people who can mop the floor with your skilless arse! :D
Also, you are missing the point of the "complaints". what I am seeing most in this thread, is the disdain for those who will not fight. It is a known fact that most who would want to just fly with the horde and base grab, or fly with the horde and cherry pick, can't "fight" very well. So, for those who want to fight, they are left with few options: 1. fight the horde-attempt to fight one of the hordeys and watch as they dive away from fighting you to run back to the other hordeys, 2. fight the horde- attempt to fight 2 of the hordeys and watch them both dive down the the other hordeys while one of them climbs back out 7k away to a substantial alt advantage, or 3. fight the horde- engage the one con and watch as the other 15 hordeys auger and killshoot each other until one gets the kill(at which time he proudly proclaims on range.....the hog is dead!!!!!!!!)
All of these options are based on the fact that one person is willing to put himself at a disadvantage for the fight, while the others are doing everything they can to avoid actually"fighting" altogether! :rolleyes:
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Crockett..... that's what I said, too! ;)
Man you want to know the best part.. I'm to the point I can't stand the MA anymore. It's very rare you can find a sustained fight that isn't full of gang tards from one side or the other. I really hate furballs anyway, because I want to have a real fight not some 1 pass easy kill crap that you tend to find in the furballs. So I tend to skirt the edges of the fight in most cases, or fly solo to another base and stir up a fight.
So last night I decide to go to the DA.. I figure it's better to get ganged after only a 2 min flight rather than 15 mins. So my first sortie I end up in front of one of the other team's bases. Killed several of them and tell them on the "all" channel that I'm bingo ammo going to RTB (had 13 rounds left).
So I start RTB and no crap there was a line of 6 cons all from the same side that tried to chase me down for a easy no skill kill. They chased me 3/4 of the way to my base and didn't turn off until they ran into 2 guys on my country. So 5 of the 6 went on to gangbang those two guys yet one noob in a Niki follows me all the way to my base and tries to pick me landing.
Well he doesn't get me and I land. When I reup the moron tries to vulch me on the runway in the DA.. He sucked so bad he couldn't even kill me with a vulch while I was sitting dead still on the runway.
I mean this is the kind of people that play this game these days.. Now after that of couse there were the typical picktards and gangtards but I did have a "few" good fights. So in short it's not the game that annoys me, I like the game it's one of my all time favorites. What sucks is 80 to 90% of the player base... to put it short and sweet.
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Perhaps you just don't like people who can mop the floor with your skilless arse! :D
Also, you are missing the point of the "complaints". what I am seeing most in this thread, is the disdain for those who will not fight. It is a known fact that most who would want to just fly with the horde and base grab, or fly with the horde and cherry pick, can't "fight" very well. So, for those who want to fight, they are left with few options: 1. fight the horde-attempt to fight one of the hordeys and watch as they dive away from fighting you to run back to the other hordeys, 2. fight the horde- attempt to fight 2 of the hordeys and watch them both dive down the the other hordeys while one of them climbs back out 7k away to a substantial alt advantage, or 3. fight the horde- engage the one con and watch as the other 15 hordeys auger and killshoot each other until one gets the kill(at which time he proudly proclaims on range.....the hog is dead!!!!!!!!)
All of these options are based on the fact that one person is willing to put himself at a disadvantage for the fight, while the others are doing everything they can to avoid actually"fighting" altogether! :rolleyes:
That about sums up my frustration with the game lately. With only those options it becomes less and less fun, and I don't sit around playing this game for "not" fun if you get my drift.
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Even more laughable is coming to the bbs, joining a discussion, and calling the posters whining for stating their opinion.....pot....meet kettle! :aok
PS SkyRock<-----owns Anaxogoras! :aok
:rofl :rofl :rofl
We have to have a starting point where the criticism of one person's whining is not necessarily a kind of whining itself. :rock
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You pretty much said it all and I agree with it, except the DA isn't that great of place to find a fight. Unless you get someone to 1 on 1 with you. The furball lake is worse than the MA's with noobs and gang tards.
If you DON'T fly Rooks, who usually have 1/3 more numbers and actual squads operating in concert--usually 12k+ in perk rides (while most everyone else is just furballing) , it CAN be fun--nothing more fun than turning tables on 2-3 punks in high-alt perk rides trying to pick you. And if ya die, takes about 45 seconds to be ready agin!
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There is no way to fly where you positively can't loose, that is a paper tiger. .......
I give you exhibit A: Hwick :D
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You want to know what pisses off furballers? The situation tonight in the MA. In LWORANGE the Bish were outnumbered a bit, but not by a lot, something like bish:100 knit:120 rook:130. Very workable odds... until the score-potatos and gang-bangers get a hold of the situation. I made 1 film just to check the numbers and there were no less than 40 rooks attacking 1 single base (that were in range of my film).
I took some screen shots of the clipboard map, then in paintshop highlighted the areas of engagement based on the radar BAR.
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z125/JB73Mustaine/01.jpg)
now with the icons enabled I overlayed the same circles:
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z125/JB73Mustaine/02.jpg)
I've made this same observation more then a few times---quite often the MA is 3 Borg cubes trying to assimilate tool sheds, while completely trying to avoid anything that resembles an enemy pilot
Notice that there is almost no fight except on the outnumbered country. This is not a bish, knit, or rook thing, it is a hoard thing.
(HTC BTW I wish you'd allow the GUI to allow the changing of size for the font for base ID's and maybe even the base icon size)
I was already choosing to fly for the "little guy" hoping for fights and possibly some more "action", I sure got it.
So in that situation overwhelmingly out numbered (and I am a suck pilot) I can either: A log off. B: change arenas to the same map and country position in LWBLUE. C: change sides to the "horde" and help gang-bang the bishops getting cheap boring kills on guys that can't even get in the air.
You guys that want to "win the war" keep fudging it up for people looking for some air to air combat fun, next thing you know all you'll have is nothing to fight. You also forget the second you "win the war" the countdown for the arena reset is on for a fresh new war. Yeah you win, now you have to start all over again. Oh yeah, you do get 25 fighter perks closer to being able to auger another jet, so you can try and win more "wars" so maybe one day you can fly that jet into the ground again.
<EDIT> BTW in case you were wondering my choice... A log off and say to hell with wasting my time. this is a game, games are meant to be fun.
---that DA lake looks quite appealing compared to this--at which point I either log, or go to lake and have mind-numbing fun :aok
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All of these options are based on the fact that one person is willing to put himself at a disadvantage for the fight, while the others are doing everything they can to avoid actually"fighting" altogether! :rolleyes:
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Man you want to know the best part.. I'm to the point I can't stand the MA anymore. It's very rare you can find a sustained fight that isn't full of gang tards from one side or the other.
agreed...it makes one wonder though.......was the guy fighting you calling for help, or did the horde just see a quick easy kill? personally, if i see a few friendlies working over a single bogie.......i keep going..why wast my alt, ammo and fuel when it's not gonna be a good fight anyway?
<<S>>
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I give you exhibit A: Hwick :D
That dude is an example of someone who will not fight. He logs on many hours and only.......ONLY..cherry picks. I've seen him take off running and not stop for 2 sectors. Flies a dora and avoids fighting at all cost. Pathetic way to play a dogfighting game IMHO. :rolleyes:
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I don't see a valid reason to cry when you die or get pick etc. It's a war game, the objective is to kill and take base ! Most BnZmer, picker w/e you wanna call it are offensive fighters. Meaning they are usually attacking over enemy air field, with a limited number of friendly replacement over enemy air space. Where the defensive fighters (usually tnb) got unlimited plane to replace their downed plane over that air space.
If you're air field is being capped, take off at another air field, force the enemy to fight the way you want them to rather then fight the way they want you to. Fly with a wingman, it's a lot more fun. So many people cry on 200 channel when they get drag n bag by a pair of fighters, but hey wake up don't fall for the trap they set simple. If you see the 1st BnZ going straight up don't follow because the second one is waiting to clear his six.
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Most BnZmer, picker w/e you wanna call it are offensive fighters.
:rofl
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Yes, I agree that winning the war is incompatible with fair, 1vs1 fights. If HT actually said that the capture system is supposed to facilitate these kind of fights, then I am speechless. :eek: Can you quote HT on this?
If I wanted to facilitate 1vs1 fights, then I wouldn't build squads into the game architecture; that's step 1. :noid
Yes, we can actually quote HT on this. So many players don't understand the reasoning behind this game that I am glad to help out when such questions arise.
The capture system IS suppopsed to facilitate combat. That's its purpose.
In the General Discussion Forum, Thread "The Flawed Updated AH", November 28, 2006, 12:21:10 PM, Post #26, HiTech replied to a poster that posted this:
Some play the game to fulfill the actual parameters that it was designed for, which is to overcome and conquer bases, and eventually the country, thus winning the war/game.
HiTech's reply was:
This is a false assumption.
The game was designed to have fun at different types of combat. Conquering bases is just a means to promote combat and hence fun. But by no means is it more or less justified than going out and just mixing it up.
HiTech
I'm glad to be of help to you; no need to thank me. Now go have fun. ;)
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So it seems that HT intended field capture to promote combat in whichever forms field capture might require. That seems very reasonable, but I think we all agree that it's not the same thing as trying to promote fights where two men duel it out, wave their wings one when gets a smoking engine, and rtb for a night of love with beautiful women. :P
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Dont say that :huh they will all take it off and out turn us :cry
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Yes, we can actually quote HT on this. So many players don't understand the reasoning behind this game that I am glad to help out when such questions arise.
The capture system IS suppopsed to facilitate combat. That's its purpose.
In the General Discussion Forum, Thread "The Flawed Updated AH", November 28, 2006, 12:21:10 PM, Post #26, HiTech replied to a poster that posted this:
HiTech's reply was:
I'm glad to be of help to you; no need to thank me. Now go have fun. ;)
Thx Toad . altho this is a kids forum it's good to see you are still alive .
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Forgive me, perhaps I should have bolded all of HT's response. Clearly, he DOES NOT say
promote combat in whichever forms field capture might require
I believe that is just your personal attempt to attach some extra significance or extra importance to capturing fields.
Allow me to post his full remark once again, with other emphasis so that you might perhaps more clearly understand the purpose of the game.
HT:
This is a false assumption.
The game was designed to have fun at different types of combat. Conquering bases is just a means to promote combat and hence fun. But by no means is it more or less justified than going out and just mixing it up.
You see that the game's owner and designer here clearly states that capturing bases is no more or no less a point of the game than "going out and just mixing it up" which pretty well describes fighting for the sake of the fight alone. They are equally valid but more importantly it needs to be re-emphasized that capturing bases/war winning isn't any more valid than furballing. Just go have fun.
It may help if I post another remark by Pyro, also a key figure in the game's development:
Originally posted by Pyro
09-18-1999 02:10 AM
The game is about aerial combat and that takes precedence to everything else. There will be tanks and such in the game but they won't ever be the main focus.
Vehicles will be useful for harrassing the enemy and capturing bases. There will be a lot more vehicle bases scattered around the terrain than airfields, so the travel distances won't be a huge factor.
But the gist of the message is that yes, we'll be putting more into this game than airplanes but our focus of the game is still aerial combat.
Glad to once again be of service!
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Wow, will the thrid reposting of the same HiTech quote finally get the point across?
Here, I'll add another regarding how much consideration has gone in to getting people to engage in combat.
Wanting to live has a roll, but if there is to much cost in dieing, it does not make for fun.
Take a carfull look at our scoring system for fighters.
1. K/d
This catagory premotes living.
2. K/s
This catagory promtes both wanting to live and wanting to get kills. When you factor in the rearm pads and victory message, it leans toward the wanting to live V getting kills.
3. K/time
This one does not promote living at all.
4. Hit %
Not much one way or the other.
5. Points.
Waited heavly toward wanting to live. It takes 4 times as many kills if you die v if you land.
The perk system is also layed out both ways.
You get extra points for landing.
If flying a Perk plane living is everything.
Blauk, your free to fly as you wish.
The score system is set up so that multiple flying styles are rewarded. It's what allows you to find a fight. But always keep in mind no one flying style is better or worse then the other by it's self, If you have no death penalty, the reward feeling for a kill go's down. To much death penalty and its hard to get someone to engage.
Many years ago AW tried a one life to live arena. Althow the concept sounds great,(man just think of the tension and realism, just like the real war) it became very aparent after a few days what was wrong with this concept.
In real life the mission out ways your risk of dieing,it's what forces people to engage, just like in senarios.
In the arena you have a choice to not engage any time you wish.
Making death to much of a penalty tips the scales to far in the direction of not wanting to engage.
HiTech
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Personally, I do not fly to "win the war," but glory to all of those who do. I wish I could have fun by trying to win the war. It would make the game a lot more fun to me. I would prefer to "win the war" according to something approximating historical circumstances... Still, trying to win the war is healthy fun; complaining and trying to gain the moral high-ground against those who do try to win the war, instead of stopping them, is laughable.
What does gameplay have to do with morality? It's just pure crud that everyone's complaining about. It's the equivalent of players coming in to a chess match and shaking the table when they can't win. It's got nothing to do with morality and everything to do with plain stupid gameplay choices.
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I don't see a valid reason to cry when you die or get pick etc. It's a war game, the objective is to kill and take base ! Most BnZmer, picker w/e you wanna call it are offensive fighters. Meaning they are usually attacking over enemy air field, with a limited number of friendly replacement over enemy air space. Where the defensive fighters (usually tnb) got unlimited plane to replace their downed plane over that air space.
If you're air field is being capped, take off at another air field, force the enemy to fight the way you want them to rather then fight the way they want you to. Fly with a wingman, it's a lot more fun. So many people cry on 200 channel when they get drag n bag by a pair of fighters, but hey wake up don't fall for the trap they set simple. If you see the 1st BnZ going straight up don't follow because the second one is waiting to clear his six.
The point just flew above your head. You just don't get it.
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Not everyone want to tnb moot, i'm sure people like it and are good at it. However, there are many others out there that don't like it, such as myself. You find the enemy and you kill it, everything else is rubbish =), but remember you gotta make it back home too. I enjoy blowin people up and such, but It's much more pleasureful for me to land bring my plane back home, even if it's only 1 kill. It just how you play, so please DON'T try to enforce your view point on other players. Everyone pays 15$ to fly the way they want.
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Not everyone want to tnb moot, i'm sure people like it and are good at it. However, there are many others out there that don't like it, such as myself. You find the enemy and you kill it, everything else is rubbish =), but remember you gotta make it back home too. I enjoy blowin people up and such, but It's much more pleasureful for me to land bring my plane back home, even if it's only 1 kill. It just how you play, so please DON'T try to enforce your view point on other players. Everyone pays 15$ to fly the way they want.
No one expects everyone else to try and TnB with them until they die a slow, painful, horrible 'death'... :aok It's fine to pretend you're a real fighter pilot and you're out there to meet the enemy and return safely (hopefully with some kills under your belt). Heck, even I do that every once in a while, because the history part of the game is very important to me.
The problem arises though when people put so much precedence on returning safely that it gets to the point where they will only fly in large hoards/safety of numbers and only engage when they have the number advantage, gang up on a low con(s) (most of which are all ready engaged with multiple other enemies) and then precede to pick them when their 'backs' are turned, fly up higher then everyone else and then pick everyone who is already engaged, HO, vulch, run to ack, and probably the biggest one that gets on my nerves, run from a fight once they get reversed (which is usually when they start with the alt/e advantage anyways). I'm not asking people to stay and fight against bad odds (I do FYI), but you can't honestly tell me you've never seen/been frustrated when you find a nice, rare 1v1, get part way into the fight and they hit the deck and run (or make one BnZ pass on you and run). I mean honestly, how do people expect to get any better? I honestly cannot see how anyone would find any of the above fun, at all. Do they get a pump out of the adrenaline when they're running with their tails between their legs and are frantically dodging and trying to get out of guns range, finally to give a sigh of relief and say 'that was close?' But hey... it's your money... :rolleyes:
In an nutshell, everyone pays their own money and are entitled to fly how they see fit, but some people (and you might even say a majority) need to grow a pair.
donkey
PS: Yenny, the last part of my post isn't directed towards you, just in case. Want to clear that up. It's more towards everyone/a general statement. :aok
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If taking bases was the object of the game, the player that takes the most bases would be the top ranked player. That is not the case. The object is to simulate combat between WWII planes and vehicles. Furballing promotes combat. Fighting to win the map promotes combat. Hitech has clearly stated both are valid forms of gameplay.
A note that I would add though is that many rules have been added to the game because the mindset that "winning the war" is the ultimate object of the game tends to surpress/avoid actual combat. I cant think of a single rule that was made because furballers were not contributing to the gameplay environment that HT intended.
"Furballing" is not strictly airspawn, kill, be killed, rinse and repeat. It's the guy who has an hour or so of free time to fly, and would like to actually be able to simulate air combat with another human being during that time. That excludes being swarmed by a horde, or fighting 10 countrymen for the only poor sap in the area. If there is a spot on the map at a given time that has the chance of allowing a fair fight, the furballer is happy.
It does not take much training, knowledge or effort to win from the advantaged position. Given equal footing, the fight usually goes to the pilot who is better at applying air combat tactics. From the disadvantaged position, one needs superior knowledge of the arts of air combat over thier opponent(s) to stand a good chance of comming out on top.
AH is a combat simulator. Those who choose to allow their skillset to limit them to habitually be more interested in a free kill than risking actual combat, are by nature subject to ridicule.
On the other hand, those who have solid abilities, fly smart, and do not display hubris for winning when they should win, are generally NOT subject to ridicule.
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I don't see a valid reason to cry when you die or get pick etc. It's a war game, the objective is to kill and take base !
Guess you missed the quote from the game creator himself HiTech before this, and multiple times after.
oh and " take base !" learn some GD grammar.
My God no wonder anyone who gets it has quit / is quitting.
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Oh yeah, Anaxogoras, do you even have a CLUE why "sheep" are mentioned in AH? If not trying to "look" like a vet just makes you look more stupid and new.
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The reason why I like BnZ is I usually am over enemy air space, next to their air field. I am usually outnumbered by some factor. I don't BnZ on defensive mission like scramble to defend my air field. I'd be upping a 109F and tnb for that task. BnZ allow me to get away when I need to and enter the fight whenever I want.
Usually I'd be looking at 6 vs 2 or so (usually have a wingman) and we just work on them w/ drag and bag tactic etc. One of us would dive in get a shot, and climb back up, while the other circling 2-3k above the fight and make sure no one is following up. If someone is following me up, he'll dive in and clear it.
Most people would do the same. If you're leading the offensive on an air field, and it just you and your wingman against the armada. Your best option would be BnZ, because TnB would get you raped. I believe in vulching ! If I am providing CAP over an air field while our bombers are working on the town and such I will vulch everything that's upping. It's a fair game, I won't give them a chance to get air borne.
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After 11 pages, you guys' can't come to the conclusion that a wall is easier torn down with machinery, than trying to beat it down with your head??? :huh
There's a little something for everyone in this game. Not everyone is gonna like every facet, but there should be something there for you. Shutup and fly.
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I usually am over enemy air space, next to their air field... Usually I'd be looking at 6 vs 2 or so.
What do you really expect?
BnZ allow me to get away...
just you and your wingman against the armada. Your best option would be BnZ, because TnB would get you raped.
If you're so worried about living, why do you fly directly over to an enemies air base with one or two other people, where you know you're going to be outnumbered anyways?
I believe in vulching ! If I am providing CAP over an air field while our bombers are working on the town and such I will vulch everything that's upping. It's a fair game, I won't give them a chance to get air borne.
This is nothing against you, just purely a question that I want to know the answer to.
Would you rather have a fight, or take a base? Just wondering.
donkey
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Not everyone want to tnb moot, i'm sure people like it and are good at it. However, there are many others out there that don't like it, such as myself. You find the enemy and you kill it, everything else is rubbish =), but remember you gotta make it back home too. I enjoy blowin people up and such, but It's much more pleasureful for me to land bring my plane back home, even if it's only 1 kill. It just how you play, so please DON'T try to enforce your view point on other players. Everyone pays 15$ to fly the way they want.
It's not about the type of flying, fly how you want. I don't know why you guys don't understand this. You don't have to TnB or bnZ or what ever, do whjat you want. It's about the very aditude that you posted that kills this game. "You find the enemy and you kill it, everything else is rubbish"
That right there is the problem. It's about the fact you can't ever get a fight going with another plane, without someone with your aditude of "see a red guy gotta kill it" coming in and stealing the kill or picking you. If you see two guys fighting it out leave them alone. Let them get their $15 dollars worth and don't be a so selfish.
If the guy asks for help by all means give him a hand, otherwise let him have his fight because he found it first. If you are in the middle of a furball then by all means it's open season but yea still don't need 5 cons on 1 guy. It's just retared, so if you see 2 guys on a con go find another fight. It's that simple.
I will say I was totally amazed just a little while ago in the DA. I was in a P40 fighting a Huri 2 in a real tough fight. I was next to the enemy base and there must have been 10 cons that took off. One or two made a pass on me and one augered. However the rest stayed out and let us have our fight. I was totally amazed but I died anyway.. :cry One wrong turn is all it takes when fight a huri 2 lol.
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The reason why I like BnZ is I usually am over enemy air space, next to their air field. I am usually outnumbered by some factor. I don't BnZ on defensive mission like scramble to defend my air field. I'd be upping a 109F and tnb for that task. BnZ allow me to get away when I need to and enter the fight whenever I want.
Usually I'd be looking at 6 vs 2 or so (usually have a wingman) and we just work on them w/ drag and bag tactic etc. One of us would dive in get a shot, and climb back up, while the other circling 2-3k above the fight and make sure no one is following up. If someone is following me up, he'll dive in and clear it.
Most people would do the same. If you're leading the offensive on an air field, and it just you and your wingman against the armada. Your best option would be BnZ, because TnB would get you raped. I believe in vulching ! If I am providing CAP over an air field while our bombers are working on the town and such I will vulch everything that's upping. It's a fair game, I won't give them a chance to get air borne.
you also like to fly the other way when your fellow knights are getting gangbanged, and you claim you are extending :rofl :rofl :rofl
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What do you really expect?
If you're so worried about living, why do you fly directly over to an enemies air base with one or two other people, where you know you're going to be outnumbered anyways?
This is nothing against you, just purely a question that I want to know the answer to.
Would you rather have a fight, or take a base? Just wondering.
donkey
Flying into a big group of enemy and make it out alive is part of the game that I like.
What do you really expect?
If you're so worried about living, why do you fly directly over to an enemies air base with one or two other people, where you know you're going to be outnumbered anyways?
This is nothing against you, just purely a question that I want to know the answer to.
Would you rather have a fight, or take a base? Just wondering.
donkey
It's like a fishing game, if an enemy fighter bite on for the rope, or have a target fixation problem on one of the wingman the other will clear him. To me it turns into group E fight. I mean we don't fly super high like rook!. My wingman and I usually fly around 10-12k (usually we try to get 3k higher then our enemy). Higher then that waste too much times. Occasionally, I have to fly really high to fight the rook.
What do you really expect?
If you're so worried about living, why do you fly directly over to an enemies air base with one or two other people, where you know you're going to be outnumbered anyways?
This is nothing against you, just purely a question that I want to know the answer to.
Would you rather have a fight, or take a base? Just wondering.
donkey
To me fighting and taking bases fall the same category. High alt CAP and on the deck CAP over and air field basically have the same threat. Such as vulching, one gotta go through tons of AAAs to get it done. With the new Flak I usually just wait until the enemy leave AAAs cover before I engage. When I do high alt cap, and someone higher coming in, I would run and drag that person away form the rest of his team mate. From there on me and my wingman work on him.
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...
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It's not about the type of flying, fly how you want. I don't know why you guys don't understand this. You don't have to TnB or bnZ or what ever, do whjat you want. It's about the very aditude that you posted that kills this game. "You find the enemy and you kill it, everything else is rubbish"
That right there is the problem. It's about the fact you can't ever get a fight going with another plane, without someone with your aditude of "see a red guy gotta kill it" coming in and stealing the kill or picking you. If you see two guys fighting it out leave them alone. Let them get their $15 dollars worth and don't be a so selfish.
If the guy asks for help by all means give him a hand, otherwise let him have his fight because he found it first. If you are in the middle of a furball then by all means it's open season but yea still don't need 5 cons on 1 guy. It's just retared, so if you see 2 guys on a con go find another fight. It's that simple.
I will say I was totally amazed just a little while ago in the DA. I was in a P40 fighting a Huri 2 in a real tough fight. I was next to the enemy base and there must have been 10 cons that took off. One or two made a pass on me and one augered. However the rest stayed out and let us have our fight. I was totally amazed but I died anyway.. :cry One wrong turn is all it takes when fight a huri 2 lol.
I usually ask before I wonder into someone's 1 vs 1, there are very few occasion where I don't. One occasion was an F4U fightin vs 2 knights, I just fly by like it's nothing. The F4U shot down 1 of the knight, so that knight said oh that's skyrock, as soon as I saw that I did a split-S diving down doing 570 knts sniping skyrock =). However, instances like that are rare. I usually ask before I wander into someone's 1 vs 1. In furballs however, I'm doing whatever I think is right at the time.
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you also like to fly the other way when your fellow knights are getting gangbanged, and you claim you are extending :rofl :rofl :rofl
=O I was running away from 2 typhie and a spitfire and a 51 because i was on bingo and u decided to jump in w/o letting me know=/ but nway i did came back and got shot down tryin to get you out !
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Not everyone want to tnb moot, i'm sure people like it and are good at it. However, there are many others out there that don't like it, such as myself. You find the enemy and you kill it, everything else is rubbish =), but remember you gotta make it back home too. I enjoy blowin people up and such, but It's much more pleasureful for me to land bring my plane back home, even if it's only 1 kill. It just how you play, so please DON'T try to enforce your view point on other players. Everyone pays 15$ to fly the way they want.
No.. I bnz at least as much as you do, maybe more. I'm saying it's a loss for the game's quality of dogfights when hordes gangpile on one or two measly cons who more likely than not are having a good even fight. Those two little cons are no tactical or strategic risks, and yet people refuse to let them have fun.
I'm saying that squaddie of yours, for example, who ran for whole sectors rather than fight 1:1, straight to 2 or 3 of his friends, that sorta stuff is pathetic and exactly what kills gameplay for AH.
Too few players actualy understand what players like Guppy mean when they say that the fight is the whole point of the game. Running to make a 1:1 a 3: or 4:1 isn't "smart". Calling it out for the pathetic choice it is, isn't "whining".
but remember you gotta make it back home too. [...] please DON'T try to enforce your view point on other players.
Everyone pays 15$ to fly how they want, a principle which would mean 1:1s would be left to go on as long as they wanted, rather than send those people to the tower for no good reason other than a very shallow understanding of "You find the enemy and you kill it, everything else is rubbish". Sending that guy trying to have his 15$'s worth at no tactical expense of yours whatsoever isn't "not try[ing] to enforce your view point on other players."
Murdr and a few others have said what I mean a bit better.
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Oh yeah, Anaxogoras, do you even have a CLUE why "sheep" are mentioned in AH? If not trying to "look" like a vet just makes you look more stupid and new.
I think you're just envious of my avatar, especially because I know better that sheep in HT flight sims did not start with AH. :rofl
Seriously, I haven't been treated by anyone so rudely as you in this bbs.
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=O I was running away from 2 typhie and a spitfire and a 51 because i was on bingo and u decided to jump in w/o letting me know=/ but nway i did came back and got shot down tryin to get you out !
you aint never helped out, nor will i ever need your kinda help.
you just keep on runnin away like your doin everytime i see.
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No.. I bnz at least as much as you do, maybe more. I'm saying it's a loss for the game's quality of dogfights when hordes gangpile on one or two measly cons who more likely than not are having a good even fight. Those two little cons are no tactical or strategic risks, and yet people refuse to let them have fun.
I'm saying that squaddie of yours, for example, who ran for whole sectors rather than fight 1:1, straight to 2 or 3 of his friends, that sorta stuff is pathetic and exactly what kills gameplay for AH.
Too few players actualy understand what players like Guppy mean when they say that the fight is the whole point of the game. Running to make a 1:1 a 3: or 4:1 isn't "smart".
Everyone pays 15$ to fly how they want, a principle which would mean 1:1 would be left to go on as long as they wanted, rather than send those people to the tower for no good reason other than a very shallow understanding of "You find the enemy and you kill it, everything else is rubbish". Sending that guy trying to have his 15$'s worth isn't not "try[ing] to enforce your view point on other players."
Maybe he tried to bank his kills who knows, I've been vulched a few times on the runway about to end sorty.
"but remember you gotta make it back home too. [...] please DON'T try to enforce your view point on other players.
Everyone pays 15$ to fly how they want, a principle which would mean 1:1 would be left to go on as long as they wanted, rather than send those people to the tower for no good reason other than a very shallow understanding of "You find the enemy and you kill it, everything else is rubbish". Sending that guy trying to have his 15$'s worth isn't not "try[ing] to enforce your view point on other players.""
I usually leave 1:1 alone, unless that friendly request for help. There have been plenty of time where someone under my plane called for help and i come screamin down forcing the bandit to break.
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you aint never helped out, nor will i ever need your kinda help.
Point taken =) don't worry I won't waste my E on ya anymore.
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Btw, once these threads degrade into making personal insults, we bring discredit upon the entire community.
I'm out. :salute
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skyrock =)
Yenny, what if everyone in the game flew like you, it would take hours before a kill was recorded. So, you always try to be above your opponent and in a pack, so what if everyone played that way? It would be the most boring game ever. I don't mind getting into a bad situation, I don't mind a couple of bnz picktardes, but it has evolved into the entire arena flying around running from fight til the guy is already fighting or only attack when he just taking off from field. It is mostly ponies and doras that do this and its about all Ive seen lately. It is a sad turn for the game. Even spits and zekes are starting to do it. geesh, its not "real" deaths. I mean if to make it back "alive" to land means that you had to fly like a coward pantytard, why place value on it. On the other hand, learning how to fight would drastically cut down on this practice! After learning how to fight, you would notice that you don't need to be 3k above every attack, or that you don't have to have 200mph on the guy before you attack. The use of acm's would make it more enjoyable for the attacker and the attackee! at least it would happen alot quicker, rather than wasting peoples time for the sake that someones to scared to take a chance!
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Btw, once these threads degrade into making personal insults,
pot meet kettle!
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Maybe he tried to bank his kills who knows, I've been vulched a few times on the runway about to end sorty.
Nah, it happened at least 3-4 times in one or two days. Same running, same guys coming over to allow him to bnz 3:1 rather than fight 1:1, same retarded excuse that it was stupid of me to run into a "trap". Wow, he was running to his friends, I never knew that!
I usually leave 1:1 alone, unless that friendly request for help. There have been plenty of time where someone under my plane called for help and i come screamin down forcing the bandit to break.
I do that too, but that's not the topic..
it has evolved into the entire arena flying around running from fight til the guy is already fighting or only attack when he just taking off from field.
And that's fine, if it's a scenario.. But in the MA it's absurd.
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Yenny, what if everyone in the game flew like you, it would take hours before a kill was recorded. So, you always try to be above your opponent and in a pack, so what if everyone played that way? It would be the most boring game ever. I don't mind getting into a bad situation, I don't mind a couple of bnz picktardes, but it has evolved into the entire arena flying around running from fight til the guy is already fighting or only attack when he just taking off from field. It is mostly ponies and doras that do this and its about all Ive seen lately. It is a sad turn for the game. Even spits and zekes are starting to do it. geesh, its not "real" deaths. I mean if to make it back "alive" to land means that you had to fly like a coward pantytard, why place value on it. On the other hand, learning how to fight would drastically cut down on this practice! After learning how to fight, you would notice that you don't need to be 3k above every attack, or that you don't have to have 200mph on the guy before you attack. The use of acm's would make it more enjoyable for the attacker and the attackee! at least it would happen alot quicker, rather than wasting peoples time for the sake that someones to scared to take a chance!
Skyrock, you were talking down to me and my wingman when we were capping your air field earlier today. We did a successful job at it, til we were low on ammo and fuel. We had 2 D9 and 1 A8. We were not alt monkey or such, we were proximately 3-4k above your air field.We deacked the field and vulched everything that was coming up to prevent the intercepting our bombers. Did you think about those fact before talking smack? By the 5th time you came up after we vulched you a few time, we were on bingo fuel way below our plan to stay. We only stay a lil bit longer to wait for our other fighters to arrive. By then we had lil fuel no ammo, so it was our call to book it. Of course you upping LA7 and out to get us, which is understandable, and I give you respect when we went HO both didn't fire. Not everyone run because they fly BnZ plane, a lot of it due to the fuel restriction of the plane. D9 had about 45 min fuel max, and we were over your base for 30 minutes plus. I know my ACM, and I also know the limitation of my D9 or at least I think I know. If you claim you can outturn a La7 while flying a D9 please show me sir, because I have yet to done that in all my time logged in the D9 zigzaggin through the furball, where i was forced to TnB in it.
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Skyrock, you were talking down to me and my wingman when we were capping your air field earlier today. We did a successful job at it, til we were low on ammo and fuel. We had 2 D9 and 1 A8. We were not alt monkey or such, we were proximately 3-4k above your air field.We deacked the field and vulched everything that was coming up to prevent the intercepting our bombers. Did you think about those fact before talking smack? By the 5th time you came up after we vulched you a few time, we were on bingo fuel way below our plan to stay. We only stay a lil bit longer to wait for our other fighters to arrive. By then we had lil fuel no ammo, so it was our call to book it. Of course you upping LA7 and out to get us, which is understandable, and I give you respect when we went HO both didn't fire. Not everyone run because they fly BnZ plane, a lot of it due to the fuel restriction of the plane. D9 had about 45 min fuel max, and we were over your base for 30 minutes plus. I know my ACM, and I also know the limitation of my D9 or at least I think I know. If you claim you can outturn a La7 while flying a D9 please show me sir, because I have yet to done that in all my time logged in the D9 zigzaggin through the furball, where i was forced to TnB in it.
If you throttle down a little, you can spend some more time over their field fighting. ;)
donkey
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If you throttle down a little, you can spend some more time over their field fighting. ;)
donkey
Meh =) but then when you hit wep to push for the speed to zoom pass the wolbies flaks it eat up gas almost twice as bad. Damn the D9 and it's 9 min and rechargable wep. :P
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pot meet kettle!
That's the second time you have said "pot meet kettle" in this thread. You know why you didn't quote me making a personal attack in this thread? Because I haven't done so.
Fwiw, beyond the accusation of hypocrisy, you have simply dodged the issue.
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That's the second time you have said "pot meet kettle" in this thread.
Maybe he just really likes pots and kettles. :D
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My 2c, you argue like you fly in the game. And SkyRock most likely pwns you.. Do the math.
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I'm saying that squaddie of yours, for example, who ran for whole sectors rather than fight 1:1, straight to 2 or 3 of his friends, that sorta stuff is pathetic and exactly what kills gameplay for AH.
Agreed moot but the guys who chase for 2 or 3 sectors
and the post a holier than thou aren't that smart .
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I never intended to post about it, only mentionned it cause it fits the bill in this argument. It's not about being holier than him nor mentioning him in person (I did so it wasn't dismissed as some abstract off the wall example), it's about that sort of timid crap lowering the quality of dogfights in the game.
I probably wouldn't have called him specificaly as his squaddie if that same guy hadn't actualy bragged about his 2 sector run for help.
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I never intended to post about it, only mentionned it cause it fits the bill in this argument. It's not about being holier than him nor mentioning him in person (I did so it wasn't dismissed as some abstract off the wall example), it's about that sort of timid crap lowering the quality of dogfights in the game.
I probably wouldn't have called him specificaly as his squaddie if that same guy hadn't actualy bragged about his 2 sector run for help.
Wasn't talking about yu . I agree with your arguement .
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If I have like a spit on me 800 out and i'm in a d9, I'd run like hell because I know my chances of winning in a turnfight vs a spit is like 5% maybe? and that 5% is on the bet that he'll disconnect. I have no shame in running when I know I won't win the fight because it's faster to run out a lil bit, climb back up and re-engage then fly a whole few sectors back to the fight with a new plane. If both pilots are of equal skill, given this scenario spit16 800 yards behind the D9, I don't think the D9 pilot have a chance :aok
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I fight that spit 9 times out of 10 in my less nimble 152, and plenty of my squaddies and ex-squaddies do and did in D9s.
800 out is 500 too close for the closest you can be sure to start a great knife fight between those two planes, but it's no guarantee you don't stand a chance at either having a great fight or any fun.
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I mean I can probably try to force an overshoot w/ scissor if the spit gets to 400, but an experience pilot flyin the spit will not fall for it. He'd just pull up lookin down laughin at me for bleedin my E, and just dive back down w/ higher E state.
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If he has trained in ACM properly and has learned to stay behind another Spitfire in a scissors...what chance do you have in a FW-190?
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If I have like a spit on me 800 out and i'm in a d9, I'd run like hell because I know my chances of winning in a turnfight vs a spit is like 5% maybe? and that 5% is on the bet that he'll disconnect. I have no shame in running when I know I won't win the fight because it's faster to run out a lil bit, climb back up and re-engage then fly a whole few sectors back to the fight with a new plane. If both pilots are of equal skill, given this scenario spit16 800 yards behind the D9, I don't think the D9 pilot have a chance :aok
That just means you have no clue about real ACM. You don't out turn a plane that turns better than you, you turn smarter, sure he has a good chance of killing you, but if he flys like 90% of the spit pilots you should be able to reverse him by getting him in sissors.
D9 has awesome roll ability, I'd suggest you seak out a trainer and learn how to use it, if you think you have to run from a spit 9 that's on your 6. I don't fly the D9 but I fly the A8 which handels much worse and I wouldn't run from that fight if it were a 1 on 1.
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So you're advocating that he do a maneuver that will lead to his death 10% of the time, vs. an extension that will lead to his death 0% of the time? :huh
The 190 pilots who can consistently outscissor a Spitfire are gods for whom I have the highest respect. I've done it successfully and unsuccessfully, but criticizing someone for not attempting it when extending is the better choice doesn't make sense. There are many occasions when a scissor maneuver will lead to death less often than trying to run away. That's the moment to practice it and learn it.
Yenny also knows his acm. You should have seen him in the 109G-14 against P-51Ds during last week's SnapShot.
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They aren't gods, they simply tried it again and again, until they could consistently do it just right. So it makes sense to encourage people to keep trying, rather than encourage them to fill their 15 bucks' worth with a void of ACM.
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I've been acused of being a 'hacker' for supposedly "out turning" a la7 with a Dora.
I really can't fault Yenny for choosing not to engage it what he feels is a "no win". I'll do exactly the same. Reset the fight to a point where I have a chance, and re-engage. The tipping point, or the thing the irks people is when said players idea of "resetting the fight", is consistantly waiting until the other guy is in a "no win" situation before they decide to engage.
Here's where I part ways with some posters. There is an underlying sense that angles fighting is everything, and E fighting is whimpy. The fact is both are valid fudamentals of BFM, and either are appropriate depending on the situation at hand. It would be silly for a football team to rely solely on either their passing or running game. Some teams tend to play to their strong suit, but relying just on one or the other is one dimentional. Same with BFM, and it's just as silly to expect someone to angles fight when it is completely inappropriate for that situation.
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So you're advocating that he do a maneuver that will lead to his death 10% of the time, vs. an extension that will lead to his death 0% of the time? :huh
Yes, because whether he lives or dies, he learns a lot more (even if it's learning something that doesn't work) then just 'extending.' It's easy to play it safe and extend, blaming the lack of initiative on relative plane match ups. You're not going to learn unless you put yourself in unfamiliar/uncomfortable/difficult situations. It's the same thing when 'they' say fight people better then you or else you will never get better. I could go beat up on 2 weekers and feel good about my 'abilities,' or I could go battle the barbossas, ded's, bat's, m00ts and other Kennel guys (sorry if I didn't name ya, blanking here :aok) and get spanked, but I would actually learn something. Putting your ego aside is the most important thing when learning. You have to go past 'playing it safe.'
donkey
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I'd turnfight when I have to, if the spit is at 400 i'd probably have to scissor and try to force an over shot, other wise i'll just book it. Equal skill spit pilot would have a 99% chance to slaughter a D9 in that situation.
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Yes, because whether he lives or dies, he learns a lot more (even if it's learning something that doesn't work) then just 'extending.' It's easy to play it safe and extend, blaming the lack of initiative on relative plane match ups. You're not going to learn unless you put yourself in unfamiliar/uncomfortable/difficult situations. It's the same thing when 'they' say fight people better then you or else you will never get better. I could go beat up on 2 weekers and feel good about my 'abilities,' or I could go battle the barbossas, ded's, bat's, m00ts and other Kennel guys (sorry if I didn't name ya, blanking here :aok) and get spanked, but I would actually learn something. Putting your ego aside is the most important thing when learning. You have to go past 'playing it safe.'
donkey
You didn't read my whole post. The kind of situations where it is better to scissor occur frequently enough already so that it's not necessary to do it at a bad time. Sure, you can practice your scissors when it would be better to something else, but that's little different from extending when it's time to attack for the sake of practicing self-discipline.
edit: same reply for moot.
Nothing is better for learning ACM than to practice the right maneuver at the right time.
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Meh, I'll fight any of ya, any time, any place. I wont win (virtually never anyway), but thats how I'm learning what does and doesn't work. Each fight is different, and to me, thats what keeps me coming back (even though I've not been playing that long). I dont care if you bnz me, turn with me, take me into the verticals, whatever - each time I'm learning (even tho I'm old and it takes a lot of time). Each to their own tho, its your money to have fun with - do what suits you.
Just my 0.00002p worth. Ymmv,
Wurzel
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No I did read it. The point I was making though is that if he (and I should try to make this a generalized statement) already thinks he's in deep trouble with a spit 800 off, why not get more practice at trying to reverse them instead of extending and taking the easier/safer way out? That way he/they will have that much more practice, get them to a level of proficiency much, much faster. I mean I really don't see what the big deal of 'dying' is in this game. You have unlimited lives and unlimited planes, so you'd probably be better off flying with the hoard if you wanted to live. You break turn right and die to the spit. Ok, now you think, hmmm. Next time you break turn but you add some element of vertical and reverse back. You die a little less. You keep doing that until you learn what works and what doesn't. You can't get to that point by going straight forward with WEP on and thinking next time I'll try to reverse him and see what happens.
Nothing is better for learning ACM than to practice the right maneuver at the right time.
I agree with you to some extent, but not 100%. Given some situation in which a high yo-yo would be appropriate, it's also important to try other manouvers just to see the outcome. What makes the high yo-yo the 'right' move there? Seeing how different maneuvers stack up in the same situation, and the outcome of that particular choice, is also vital to understanding and developing a good ACM sense (IMHO). It may not be the right time to practice that particular move, but it's all geared towards the bigger picture of learning ACM. It may not be the right time for him to try and reverse the spit, but it's all towards getting better.
donkey
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Anax it's you that's not following the thread. You misread my previous posts and read different arguments in replies where I just rephrase the same arguments, and now you're doing it again.
I said if the spit is 800 out or so, it's better to fight than just run, whatever the method chosen to counter-attack, not that scissors are the only answer in that specific situation. Yenny says in the first post that a spit 800 on his D9's six is a 95%+ probability he's dead soon, and says it's worth running rather than fighting in that situation, and I disagreed. In the following post he changes it to 400 yards, which is a different story; but in that case the use of running is even more reduced.
The real point to be made in this thread is that too many players are doing as Murdr describes here: " The tipping point, or the thing the irks people is when said players idea of "resetting the fight", is consistantly waiting until the other guy is in a "no win" situation before they decide to engage."
I don't completely agree with the rest of his repy, but that one point is exactly what is wrong with the way most players play the game and it's what you and a few others keep not understanding.
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Donkey, I respect what you have to say and will take it into consideration. I guess where we differ is over the death thing.
Moot, it's true that I wasn't commenting on what yenny said. I was replying to what you said about my postThey aren't gods, they simply tried it again and again, until they could consistently do it just right. So it makes sense to encourage people to keep trying, rather than encourage them to fill their 15 bucks' worth with a void of ACM.
because it seemed to me that you did not acknowledge my claim that there are plenty of opportunities to practice reversals in the 190 at the right time, rather than forcing it at the wrong time.
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Years and years playin AW and flyin RL, I have a pretty good understandin of ACM, but the game mechanic for AH i don't quiet get it down yet, such as which speed to drop flap etc. For D9 though I doubt it matters much. And usually when i'm in trouble it's not 1 behind me =) it's about a horde of baddies. If it's one usually my wingman would force him to break np.
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Donkey, I respect what you have to say and will take it into consideration. I guess where we differ is over the death thing.
<S>, you make some good points (and no hard feelings :aok). Just out of curiousity, where do you stand on the death thing. To many threads and things to keep track of, you know :aok.
donkey
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Who cares.Fly how you want.If your gonna fly a fighter than FIGHT for cod's sake.If your gonna bomb stuff BOMB stuff.Its your money.If your gonna fly like a dweeb on either side of the coin dont expect a lot of REspect.Planes are free for the most part.Dont be afraid to lose a few while learning. :salute
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Wolfpack BnZ all the way =) I usually don't fly solo. Always have 1 or 4 wingman in a group of D9s. So I rarely get in situations where I need to turnfight w/ D9. But when I do though I usually get slaughter no matter what I pull, i usually use my speed to bug out if it gets ugly and i'm solo. If any of you guys are good D9 pilots though and know how to turn fight it, I'd love to take the tip!. Just can't say it and not back it up though. Not many players are at the caliber that we are in understandin ACM.
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Meh, I'll fight any of ya, any time, any place. I wont win (virtually never anyway), but thats how I'm learning what does and doesn't work. Each fight is different, and to me, thats what keeps me coming back (even though I've not been playing that long). I dont care if you bnz me, turn with me, take me into the verticals, whatever - each time I'm learning (even tho I'm old and it takes a lot of time).
This pretty much sums up my current mind set.
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Like yenny said above plz do come forward with how to beat spit 16 on your six in a dora. Make a film write up or whatever. I first am willing to learn and fly with some that can out turn la spit and rest of "tard "planes.
:salute
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flying a Dora is your mistake. why fly it if you cannot fly it vs the common enemy? the only reason i can think of is an excuse not to fight.
Top 5 Dweeb Planes 2008:
1: spit16
2: p51D
3: 190D9
4: la7
5: tempest
yes thats right, the dora is way up there in the 'tard' plane ranks. ;)
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So you're advocating that he do a maneuver that will lead to his death 10% of the time, vs. an extension that will lead to his death 0% of the time? :huh
The 190 pilots who can consistently outscissor a Spitfire are gods for whom I have the highest respect. I've done it successfully and unsuccessfully, but criticizing someone for not attempting it when extending is the better choice doesn't make sense. There are many occasions when a scissor maneuver will lead to death less often than trying to run away. That's the moment to practice it and learn it.
Yenny also knows his acm. You should have seen him in the 109G-14 against P-51Ds during last week's SnapShot.
Yes.. I'm saying fight every fight that is a 1 on 1 or even 3 on 1, no matter if you think you will lose or win. Lives aren't free but they only cost $14.99 a month and are unlimited. Every single fight is a chance to learn something and you will learn the most by putting your self in a tough situations. I don't care who you are or how long you have played, there is always more to learn if you challenge yourself. The people that don't challenge themselves and engage fights with odds against them, will never reach their full potential. Same with guys that only fly the same plane over and over and over.
Think of it like this.. so you run from the spit.. sure you lived, but what did you learn from it? If you are serious about being as good as you can be in this game you will always challenge yourself.
I'll post two recent films from the DA.. I was flying the P40's trying to learn it, I'm getting better but IMO I still suck in it.
First film is me in a p40 and Dazycutr in a spit5. This was my first time in a P40 in months, I was so noobish when picking it I grabbed the one with no wep. :rofl I first ran into a F4U got a few rounds in him and he dove to the deck. I didn't follow because I saw the spit coming, the F4U crashes for what ever reason.
P40 vs Spit 5 Film (http://"http://www.wargamerx.com/temp/p40-vs-spit5.ahf")
With the spit I figured I had a good chance of killing him, I actually like to fight spits because they are one of the easiest planes to rip to shreds once you get your guns on them. They turn good but I'm dumb and always think I can beat them no matter what I'm flying..lol
I'll say straight up I'll often let a con get on my six just to see if I can shake him. In this fight I didn't intend for him to get on me like he was @ 2:30. That was total dumbness on my part and not being used to the p40. Overall, I think I made several mistakes in this one mostly stalling the plane which eventually caused me to auger. I think I would have won this fight and I think Dazy made a few mistakes and should have killed me much earlier but it was a good fight none the less. My biggest mistake was getting too eager for that kill because I saw it coming and I augured like a 2 week noob. Smack me in the head and call me a dumbaruse because I totally blew it. However I still learned a lot and had a fun fight.
Second is me in a p40 vs a huri 2. I know going into this fight I don't have a very good chance in winning I mean lets face it, anyone can turn in a hurricane and there was 2 of them close by. If it's a decant stick the planes are hard to beat in a turn fight, so why not jump in for a challenge? I lost but I put up a hell of a fight IMO but I leaned from my mistakes. I didn't get killed because I was in a P40 and he was in a H2. I was killed because I made mistakes.
P40 vs Hurricane 2 Film (http://"http://www.wargamerx.com/temp/p40-vs-h2.ahf")
Right off the start I screwed up and put the plane into a stall and lost most of my alt like a dumb 2 week noob. I'm new to the plane, and it was just my dumb mistake. Second mistake I made is what set me up to get killed and was at 2:39, I turned right when I should have followed him around to the left. I saw him turn the other way and I didn't follow.. Totally dumb mistake on my part and I paid for it in the next set of turns by dieing. The other mistake I made was turning back to him after I made that mistake. I should have nosed down and built a tab bit of speed before turning back to him.
I have to say in this fight, I saw all those red cons all over the place 10 of them if you count them in the film. I was totally amazed that they all didn't dive in for the easy cherry pick kills. Only 2 of them did and one augured. so Hat's off to the other ones whom let the fight go on.. (Maybe there is hope after all)
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Like yenny said above plz do come forward with how to beat spit 16 on your six in a dora. Make a film write up or whatever. I first am willing to learn and fly with some that can out turn la spit and rest of "tard "planes.
:salute
Extend level climb slightly. Wait until he gets bored of chasing you or runs out of fuel. Or get a friendly to drop on him so he has to break. Climb up but keep an eye on him incase he turns back into you. Go vertical loop back down and take a potshot. If he pulls any sort of overshoot move extend like hell just froze over. Repeat until he dies.
Joking aside if a spit 16 is 600 off and you try to outturn him it ain't gonna happen if he knows what he is doing. If he dropped in with lots of E I would do my favourite typhoon move. Kill throttle pull up hard kick the rudder, roll or stick the nose down. Anything to force him to blow past. If he decides to turn to get back around on you try and ride inside of his turn doing your best to shoot him. Roll rate is the doras strength use it or lose it.
Any good spit pilot would bleed his E and ride your 6 and kill your run 190 cold. If you do force the overshoot and he goes up and plays the E game against you your screwed hit the deck and run.
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How is P40 close to D9 in turnfighting? :confused:
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Meh, I'll fight any of ya, any time, any place. I wont win (virtually never anyway), but thats how I'm learning what does and doesn't work. Each fight is different, and to me, thats what keeps me coming back (even though I've not been playing that long). I dont care if you bnz me, turn with me, take me into the verticals, whatever - each time I'm learning (even tho I'm old and it takes a lot of time). Each to their own tho, its your money to have fun with - do what suits you.
Just my 0.00002p worth. Ymmv,
Wurzel
but wurzel will kick your arse with a killer guitar solo ............(he went down to the crossroads you know)
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Extend level climb slightly. Wait until he gets bored of chasing you or runs out of fuel. Or get a friendly to drop on him so he has to break. Climb up but keep an eye on him incase he turns back into you. Go vertical loop back down and take a potshot. If he pulls any sort of overshoot move extend like hell just froze over. Repeat until he dies.
Joking aside if a spit 16 is 600 off and you try to outturn him it ain't gonna happen if he knows what he is doing. If he dropped in with lots of E I would do my favourite typhoon move. Kill throttle pull up hard kick the rudder, roll or stick the nose down. Anything to force him to blow past. If he decides to turn to get back around on you try and ride inside of his turn doing your best to shoot him. Roll rate is the doras strength use it or lose it.
Any good spit pilot would bleed his E and ride your 6 and kill your run 190 cold. If you do force the overshoot and he goes up and plays the E game against you your screwed hit the deck and run.
I don't fly spits but I know what it is capable of, I'm pretty sure if the D9 pilot and spit 16 pilot are of same skill level. The d9 pilot won't have a chance. Spit just have so many more options in that situation. Novice spit pilots you might be able to out scissor, but good pilots not gunna fall for them easy tricks.
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How is P40 close to D9 in turnfighting? :confused:
I never said it was the same as a D9. I posted it to show you can fly sub par plane and put up a hell of a fight against a much better plane. IMO the D9 is a much better plane than a P40. If you notice, I didn't try to out turn either plane.. No possible way I could. I used scissors and stall turns, much the way you would do in a D9.
D9 has a much better roll rate and a much more powerful engine. The plane means nothing, it's about the pilot. Sure some planes like say a A6M or a Huri 2 can drastically close the gap between experience but over all the plane has little to do with anything.
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thats exactly it yenny hell you've watched me kill your friendlies before I even have to evade your pass.
I dont expect 190's to turn fight me, if I see a well flown one using good E retention and being aggressive when the situation allows i'll salute him. I hate the guys who come in guns blazing with little or no use. Nothing irks me more is when they only turn back in when they see your busy fighting someone else I get all pent up and shake my fist at their coward, sneaky approach. I know when someone is doing it and I will go out of my way to kill that person over the guys prepared to fight.
Either way i do like the dora and always land numerous kills when I do fly it.
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Like yenny said above plz do come forward with how to beat spit 16 on your six in a dora. Make a film write up or whatever. I first am willing to learn and fly with some that can out turn la spit and rest of "tard "planes.
:salute
Uh no.. How about you go make the effort yourself?
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Uh no.. How about you go make the effort yourself?
Why would they want to do that when they can just run.. :rolleyes:
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Different planes require different Tacts.Cause a dora extends doensnt make him a tard.The guy expecting a dora to fight at a serious dissadvantage is a quake tard.All planes have their own area to work in.I know a lot run away but to expect a dora to turn fight or even hang in a fight its outclassed is a moronic line of thought.Then again I could be wrong. :rolleyes:
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Different planes require different Tacts.Cause a dora extends doensnt make him a tard.The guy expecting a dora to fight at a serious dissadvantage is a quake tard.All planes have their own area to work in.I know a lot run away but to expect a dora to turn fight or even hang in a fight its outclassed is a moronic line of thought.Then again I could be wrong. :rolleyes:
So you wont fight unless you have an advantage?
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I don't fly spits but I know what it is capable of, I'm pretty sure if the D9 pilot and spit 16 pilot are of same skill level. The d9 pilot won't have a chance. Spit just have so many more options in that situation. Novice spit pilots you might be able to out scissor, but good pilots not gunna fall for them easy tricks.
Yenny, I upped a dora last night at a capped base, I got out over the water and a pony came screaming in and got my right aileron. I nosed down waiting for the second pass. As he came in on second pass, I did a nose under roll and he went back up, this time with less E, and came back in again. He got my forward fuel on the second pass and on the 3rd pass I nose under fake rolled and nosedown to bounce nose back up for a shot as he passed high. I got hits on him, and he went up and behind me again, so I nose down and set up a rolling scissors and on 4th pass we got into some kicking scissors and he pulled up and out again but had to re-engage because he didnt have enuff to rope me, so we start a 4-5 minute rolling scissors until fi9nally I get him to drop his left wing and fall under my guns. In the scissors, we were going 1/2 turns and I was getting inside of him, so dora's can turn u just have to learn how to manipulate the pitch and roll characteristics of the ride. :aok The pony was Hammer.
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That was a good fight. My next flight I landed 7. What the un-enlightened fail to see is the unsuccessful 1 v 1 is more fun than the 7 furball kills.
Regards,
Hammer
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Yenny, I upped a dora last night at a capped base, I got out over the water and a pony came screaming in and got my right aileron. I nosed down waiting for the second pass. As he came in on second pass, I did a nose under roll and he went back up, this time with less E, and came back in again. He got my forward fuel on the second pass and on the 3rd pass I nose under fake rolled and nosedown to bounce nose back up for a shot as he passed high. I got hits on him, and he went up and behind me again, so I nose down and set up a rolling scissors and on 4th pass we got into some kicking scissors and he pulled up and out again but had to re-engage because he didnt have enuff to rope me, so we start a 4-5 minute rolling scissors until fi9nally I get him to drop his left wing and fall under my guns. In the scissors, we were going 1/2 turns and I was getting inside of him, so dora's can turn u just have to learn how to manipulate the pitch and roll characteristics of the ride. :aok The pony was Hammer.
=) that's different situation though Skyrock, I'd probably do the same more or less in that situation. P51D have some what the same turn radius and performance as a D9, so it's not a big problem. I turn fight against P51D and other FW all the times. It just I try not to tnb vs. the pure TnB planes.
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I don't think he's understanding that by asking him to stay and fight we don't mean TnB. Doom constantly pwns me in any 190, even in my ki84. And get this: He doesn't have to extend 6k away after a failed BnZ! He fights! OMG, I was getting the impression from this thread that you have to run and rely on others to be successful! :rofl
Getting a kill or death after a good tussle with him is 1,000 times more rewarding than chasing these tards around while they scream for help on their vox.
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So you're advocating that he do a maneuver that will lead to his death 10% of the time, vs. an extension that will lead to his death 0% of the time? :huh
The 190 pilots who can consistently outscissor a Spitfire are gods for whom I have the highest respect. I've done it successfully and unsuccessfully, but criticizing someone for not attempting it when extending is the better choice doesn't make sense. There are many occasions when a scissor maneuver will lead to death less often than trying to run away.
If your that concerned with living then MSFS might be the way to go. Unless an individual puts himself to the test there is no chance to improve his cartoon plane skills. Face it.... if you do not die much then your not pushing the envelope.
Some of the most memorable fights I have been in were OTD and outnumbered. To get into that situation and actually come out victorious is exhilerating to say the least. My 38 is a large ac and usually targeted in a furball. That to me is no problem as it allows me to hone my virtual abilities.
Rank means very little but many like to track their k/d. On the other hand k/d means nothing if your usually flying around playing airport or only engage when your in a far superior ride/position.
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I think you're just envious of my avatar, especially because I know better that sheep in HT flight sims did not start with AH. :rofl
Seriously, I haven't been treated by anyone so rudely as you in this bbs.
First off yes I know where they came from, pre-AH an their history in the beginnings of AH
Second, I just read through 3/4 of all your posts on this forum and this is the first time I personally have ever said anything to you so I don't know what the hell you are talking about me treating you rudely. If 1 post makes you get all ruffled up I don't know what to say.
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I like to take only a knife and jump into the middle of a bunch of gunfighters. That way, if they shoot me, I can tell them what little skills they have because it is easy to fly in a hoard and shoot someone that only has a knife. Moreover, if I kill them, I can tell them how little skill they have for letting someone kill them with a knife when they had a gun. Since I took all that effort to learn to use the knife, I cannot remember the last time I lost in a fair fight. My skills just get better and better when everyone else just seems to get worse. I am now so superior that I’m actually board flying against all you skill-less dweebs that depend on teamwork and proper equipment selection and utilization to win a fight. You will never find me – the ultra skilled – resulting to these cheap and easy modes of play. If you want to improve and learn, you have to get stupid – just like me. :)
MachNix
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That was a good fight. My next flight I landed 7. What the un-enlightened fail to see is the unsuccessful 1 v 1 is more fun than the 7 furball kills.
Regards,
Hammer
Yes it was a good one, and I had a friendly ask me if I needed help, I quickly said no, let me have this and he said sure. Great statement there, Hammer, and a great fight. :salute
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Yes it was a good one, and I had a friendly ask me if I needed help, I quickly said no, let me have this and he said sure. Great statement there, Hammer, and a great fight. :salute
Thats something about us Muppets.. We never jump in on a good fight..we would ask and 100 out of 100 times we get a NO!!
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Thats something about us Muppets.. We never jump in on a good fight..we would ask and 100 out of 100 times we get a NO!!
How comes that never happens to me, hehehehe. I always seem to get 3+ on me.
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Thx to skyrock for typing out the fight , that certanly helps. :salute Other dudes that say we pick wrong plane we are in jg11 so for us its either k4 or d9 in ma. Flat out refusing to help is not gonna aliveate the BnZ situation. That is exactyi the S@#$ :mad: that drove me from trying to learn to tnb. Some of us have not been flying since 1995!. So if you dont want to help Fly on dude !!
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Thx to skyrock for typing out the fight , that certanly helps. :salute
:salute It might be fun to duel some of the JG11 in dora's. :aok
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So you wont fight unless you have an advantage?
I fight in a disadvantaged position most of the time.Cant help myself.Hajo is always telling me to get out of the weeds :lol I figgure I can learn more that way but some planes arent made to do that.
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:salute It might be fun to duel some of the JG11 in dora's. :aok
if u feel like chasing someone that far
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I like to take only a knife and jump into the middle of a bunch of gunfighters. That way, if they shoot me, I can tell them what little skills they have because it is easy to fly in a hoard and shoot someone that only has a knife. Moreover, if I kill them, I can tell them how little skill they have for letting someone kill them with a knife when they had a gun. Since I took all that effort to learn to use the knife, I cannot remember the last time I lost in a fair fight. My skills just get better and better when everyone else just seems to get worse. I am now so superior that I’m actually board flying against all you skill-less dweebs that depend on teamwork and proper equipment selection and utilization to win a fight. You will never find me – the ultra skilled – resulting to these cheap and easy modes of play. If you want to improve and learn, you have to get stupid – just like me. :)
MachNix
:rofl
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if u feel like chasing someone that far
Back in the Shed, tool.
That would be fun SR.
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Back in the Shed, tool.
That would be fun SR.
if you didn't run away all the time, it would not be mentioned
Dee Da Dee
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if u feel like chasing someone that far
I don't know what your problem is, but talking smack won't help in anyway. The one instance I had to run from a 4 vs 1. You came in blazing attacking w/o giving me a warning that you are jumping into my bandits. And I had maybe 20 gallons of fuel in my tank, and I was just trying to RTB. But I did turn around when you were crying on the radio for help. The lesson here for you is radio whoever fight you're gunna jump into a call on vox, because that person might be focus on other priorities. You being rude and talking smack doesn't solve any problem. Remember not everyone have to stay and help you, we have other priorities.
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I don't know what your problem is, but talking smack won't help in anyway. The one instance I had to run from a 4 vs 1. You came in blazing attacking w/o giving me a warning that you are jumping into my bandits. And I had maybe 20 gallons of fuel in my tank, and I was just trying to RTB. But I did turn around when you were crying on the radio for help. The lesson here for you is radio whoever fight you're gunna jump into a call on vox, because that person might be focus on other priorities. You being rude and talking smack doesn't solve any problem. Remember not everyone have to stay and help you, we have other priorities.
i have never called out on vox for you to help me in anyway B remember that!
i fly into 3 & 4 on 1's all the time why you run away.I may not survive or i may survive, but i never run or ask for help like you do
so take your own lead and fly away now whilst you still can boy
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I don't know what your problem is, but talking smack won't help in anyway. The one instance I had to run from a 4 vs 1. You came in blazing attacking w/o giving me a warning that you are jumping into my bandits. And I had maybe 20 gallons of fuel in my tank, and I was just trying to RTB. But I did turn around when you were crying on the radio for help. The lesson here for you is radio whoever fight you're gunna jump into a call on vox, because that person might be focus on other priorities. You being rude and talking smack doesn't solve any problem. Remember not everyone have to stay and help you, we have other priorities.
"1hungtoothlesslow420todddork" is not worth the time Yenny. I have never once met him in game as an foe yet he claims to know me. Seeing as how I havent logged 5 hours in the last two weeks, and that is the time this JG11 fetish started with him, it can only be Hero Worship I conclude. His signature screams " :cry They killed me again".
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^_^ are you sure you didn't call for help? I clearly remember you saying come back and get these guys. I fly w/ a lot of knight and we always help each other out, I guess a lot of them must of hate your guts too.
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"1hungtoothlesslow420todddork" is not worth the time Yenny. I have never once met him in game as an foe yet he claims to know me. Seeing as how I havent logged 5 hours in the last two weeks, and that is the time this JG11 fetish started with him, it can only be Hero Worship I conclude. His signature screams " :cry They killed me again".
still salty from the slap job huh????
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Let see, yesterday at A60 you were on the deck in GV radio over vox for us fighters to take an IL2 down. Guess who dove from 7k to the deck to take him off ya? JG-11. So don't give me that BS that "I don't need help".
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People pay $14.95 a month to fly the way they want,in what they want.It would be nice if people would mind their own business.
Doctor, heal thyself.
Glove
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Let see, yesterday at A60 you were on the deck in GV radio over vox for us fighters to take an IL2 down. Guess who dove from 7k to the deck to take him off ya? JG-11. So don't give me that BS that "I don't need help".
how can you do that and runaway at the same time?
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how can you do that and runaway at the same time?
Easy I ran into the direction that you were calling for help.
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Let see, yesterday at A60 you were on the deck in GV radio over vox for us fighters to take an IL2 down. Guess who dove from 7k to the deck to take him off ya? JG-11. So don't give me that BS that "I don't need help".
it wasn't you, for i roll film on every sortie and it was lothhog in a typhie who killed that il2 and i will quote myself " finally someone killed that iL2 ".
as i typed before.i don't ask anyone for help and dang sure not you.
What kills me is that you think the dora's only tactic is to run away then re-engage when they are not looking.you don't have a clue what the dora will do, and if you stop running away long enough and just don't care about a score, and just FIGHT!!! :rock
1020
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they'll get tired of running from fights and learn to fight or just quit the game entirely anyways, we should be saving our breath to help out the fellows with a will to learn and push the envelope.
i'm out of this thread
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Maybe we weren't on the same page w/ right IL2 but I'm pretty sure you said something about need someone taking the IL2 down. Run away and re-engage? or zoom up while wingman pick the dood getting rope?
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Maybe we weren't on the same page w/ right IL2 but I'm pretty sure you said something about need someone taking the IL2 down. Run away and re-engage? or zoom up while wingman pick the dood getting rope?
or maybe your just full of it and should stop now.
get ahold of Widewing and have him show you how to fly that Dora.
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There are more to air combat then individual duking it out. I prefer flying w/ my wingman, so my tactic doesn't evolve around turning as much as rope and bag. As for flying the D9 it self, I'm pretty sure I know how to handle my plane. Thanks for directing who to contact if needs though.
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I prefer flying w/ my wingman, so my tactic doesn't evolve around turning as much as rope and bag.
I have several films from this week.3 that i looked at today involve you flying away from other knights that are outnumbered and in a fight, these films show you all by your lonesome leaving (never me) your fellow knights hanging.On one instence you try to tell me i need to go down there and help them out, while you were climbing away from them BY YOURSELF, you wanted me to go help out so they wouldn't pay attention to you coming back in to pick them.
stop makin up lame excuses for your lack of FIGHT!
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O.o
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I have several films from this week.3 that i looked at today involve you flying away from other knights that are outnumbered and in a fight, these films show you all by your lonesome leaving (never me) your fellow knights hanging.On one instence you try to tell me i need to go down there and help them out, while you were climbing away from them BY YOURSELF, you wanted me to go help out so they wouldn't pay attention to you coming back in to pick them.
stop makin up lame excuses for your lack of FIGHT!
You do know BnZ is a two step process right, Diving down to attack and zoom back up to regain the E and prep for another attack. It's not like TnB buddy =)
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And I ran
I ran so far away
I just ran
I couldn't get away
Lyrics > A Flock of Seagulls Lyrics > A Flock of Seagulls I Ran (So Far Away) Lyrics
keep telling yourself that it's OK :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
:lol :rofl :lol :rofl :lol :rofl
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Ugh.... :rolleyes:
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How comes that never happens to me, hehehehe. I always seem to get 3+ on me.
Cause youre AKDogg...we like to rape you :P
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if u feel like chasing someone that far
anyone that makes a map and films on how to Head On shoot, really shouldn't be posting anything relating to anyone else's fighting style, ain't that right 1hunglo? When can we expect the second volume of your wonderful training films and maps, maybe one on how to dive bomb in Lancasters and call it "Proper Lancaster Bombing Techniques"?
ack-ack
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:rofl
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anyone that makes a map and films on how to Head On shoot, really shouldn't be posting anything relating to anyone else's fighting style, ain't that right 1hunglo? When can we expect the second volume of your wonderful training films and maps, maybe one on how to dive bomb in Lancasters and call it "Proper Lancaster Bombing Techniques"?
ack-ack
your just jealous no one invited you isn't that right Dee Da Dee?
and if your gonna try to type smack atleast put the link up to the film.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWT7CpNiGok
This map was designed for those that find themselves in a 2 or more against 1 and always miss the deflection shot.Everyone who participated in this event said that thier ability to make the deflection shot in a 2 or more on 1 scenario had increased by a large amount.The best way to grasp the deflection is to travel through this type of course " only shooting in the turns "
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your just jealous no one invited you isn't that right Dee Da Dee?
Maybe you should ask yourself if you're still bitter for being soundly rejected as a trainer? While you're at it, ask yourself why we all consider you to be a tool of epic proportions.
Now hurry along and get to making the 3rd volume of your excellent training films and maps, this time call this one "How to Pork and Auger 1Hunglo Style!".
ack-ack
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Maybe you should ask are you still bitter because they turned you down as a trainer?
ack-ack
that doesn't bother me in the slightest.i love how you gurls think it does though :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
maybe you should become a trainer AKAK, teach people how to run away and cherry pick from 20-K!
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maybe you should become a trainer AKAK, teach people how to run away and cherry pick from 20-K!
How about if you teach me how to fight 1v1? You and I can go to the DA and we can see how many times I can whip your arse in 10 minutes, deal?
ack-ack
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How about if you teach me how to fight 1v1? You and I can go to the DA and we can see how many times I can whip your arse in 10 minutes, deal?
ack-ack
keep tryin, like i told you a long time ago, and i will repeat for ya here now.
You want some of this, you gotta come and find this.Those weak P-38 tactics your tryin to sell are a no buy only round deeze parts pilgrim, kinda like the bait your using.
get some new material.
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ouch, sounds like some bad history here, and a shades?
:noid
(In?)
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keep tryin, like i told you a long time ago, and i will repeat for ya here now.
You want some of this, you gotta come and find this.Those weak P-38 tactics your tryin to sell are a no buy only round deeze parts pilgrim, kinda like the bait your using.
get some new material.
LOL! Thanks again for proving what we already knew about you. And yet you continue to wonder why you're considered such a joke in this community.
So any timeline on your next training video?
ack-ack
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LOL! Thanks again for proving what we already knew about you. And yet you continue to wonder why you're considered such a joke in this community.
So any timeline on your next training video?
ack-ack
WAIT!!!!!!!
someone is pissing ppl off more the me?
WTH
this cant be
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ouch, sounds like some bad history here, and a shades?
:noid
(In?)
Do a search of 1hunglo, Tard..err TedStryker or the other numerous shades account this twit has and you can see why he's considered to be one of the premiere AH Village Idiots.
ack-ack
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Do a search of 1hunglo, Tard..err TedStryker or the other numerous shades account this twit has and you can see why he's considered to be one of the premiere AH Village Idiots.
ack-ack
The search option hates me... :(
donkey
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The search option hates me... :(
donkey
oIf I said look for a place in Texas would that help to tune the searcho
omaybe a 1980's soapo
oneed I say moreo
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your just jealous no one invited you isn't that right Dee Da Dee?
Um....Its Dee Dee Dee.Heres your sign. :rolleyes:
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The search option hates me... :(
donkey
Here is a post he made under a shade name to give himself recognition for what a great trainer he is. He made a couple of like this under another name as well.
Todd420 makes shade account to pat his own back (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,179884.0.html)
Here's another gem
Sweet2th's musing on the decline of the game (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,213126.0.html)
And of course, his classic AH training video...
How to HO..err use Deflection Shots (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,202293.0.html)
And to top it all off, 1Hunglo was banned previously for padding score on a 2nd account and then bragging about doing it on the boards. A true sign of genius.
ack-ack
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oIf I said look for a place in Texas would that help to tune the searcho
omaybe a 1980's soapo
oneed I say moreo
:lol
:aok
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Here is a post he made under a shade name to give himself recognition for what a great trainer he is. He made a couple of like this under another name as well.
Todd420 makes shade account to pat his own back (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,179884.0.html)
Here's another gem
Sweet2th's musing on the decline of the game (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,213126.0.html)
And of course, his classic AH training video...
How to HO..err use Deflection Shots (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,202293.0.html)
And to top it all off, 1Hunglo was banned previously for padding score on a 2nd account and then bragging about doing it on the boards. A true sign of genius.
ack-ack
Does anyone have a list of all his shades?
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WAIT!!!!!!!
someone is pissing ppl off more the me?
WTH
this cant be
It's the SPIZ man, it's the SPIZ!!
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Here is a post he made under a shade name to give himself recognition for what a great trainer he is. He made a couple of like this under another name as well.
Todd420 makes shade account to pat his own back (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,179884.0.html)
Here's another gem
Sweet2th's musing on the decline of the game (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,213126.0.html)
And of course, his classic AH training video...
How to HO..err use Deflection Shots (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,202293.0.html)
And to top it all off, 1Hunglo was banned previously for padding score on a 2nd account and then bragging about doing it on the boards. A true sign of genius.
ack-ack
Oh man that video was priceless. :lol
oIf I said look for a place in Texas would that help to tune the searcho
omaybe a 1980's soapo
oneed I say moreo
Huh lol? I searched Texas 1980 soap, but didn't get anything. I googled it and got a soap opera, named Texas or Another World in Texas. Was I anywhere close? :lol
donkey
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Sheesh Donkey, place in Texas that used to be a soap........I dunno, young uns of today.....Its obviously.....Housto...errrrr ....Dallas.....sheesh.....
Wurzel (you can put the o in front and back yourself.....)
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Does anyone have a list of all his shades?
Just HT :aok
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Just HT :aok
:D
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ouch, sounds like some bad history here, and a shades?
:noid
(In?)
No you are OUT, as you said yourself not one post ago. Another wave rider. Classic. You were on the "tools" (insert one his many cpids) side here, until the tide swung in favor of sanity. Another one claiming to know something that obviously you do not.
Does anyone have a list of all his shades?
:rofl I hope he never changes his sig. What Advertising! :rofl
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Ack-Ack, u got to much time on your hands,lol. U must also file everything these youngsters do around here to remember these posts. :D
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Ack-Ack, u got to much time on your hands,lol. U must also file everything these youngsters do around here to remember these posts. :D
Didn't have anything to do at work other than troll these boards. Sometimes Monday's aren't so bad.
ack-ack
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Oh, gosh.... again?? Didn't we get rid of TedStryker???
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well my bad, I just couldn't help posting again! i also forgot this was the thread i wasn't going to post in no more. my appologies!
he wasn't talking complete nonsense till the close to the end. I have a very difficult time keeping up with this interwebs drama. I have more important things to burn up my brain cells with :aok
But thanks for the reading Ack Ack, funny stuff.
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well my bad, I just couldn't help posting again! i also forgot this was the thread i wasn't going to post in no more. my appologies!
he wasn't talking complete nonsense till the close to the end. I have a very difficult time keeping up with this interwebs drama. I have more important things to burn up my brain cells with :aok
But thanks for the reading Ack Ack, funny stuff.
Not the reply I expected Bongo...but one I am glad to see. :salute
The last few pages of this thread is a snapshot of all that is good in this community. No matter our differences, He flies a 190, she flies a tempest, BNZ, TnB, hotard to squeeker, and every label in between, when it comes to dogging out threats to our young people, the Game, and the community as a whole, like "unhunglotool" there...We unite.
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I mean if to make it back "alive" to land means that you had to fly like a coward pantytard, why place value on it.
Perfect Mark !!!
Back when I started in AH I days, you would very rarely see people landing 5+ kill sorties and when they did, it usually was the "cream of the crop" players landing them ... and you knew that they weren't all 'picks' or 'vulches' ... they were air-to-air.
Back then it was all about the 'fight' and the majority fought it out 'till the end ... most didn't run because there was more respect to be gained in becoming known as a 'fighter' rather than a 'runner'.
I pop into the LW MAs on occasion and see many 5+ kill sorties pop up in the text buffer ... and the names ... never heard of them ... and I think most likely a very long 'cherry pick' sortie or the vulch lamp was lit somewhere on the map.
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Easy enough to check..... KPH :lol
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Come on.. You guys are missing the point. It doesn't matter if the victories are completely shallow!
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ah well done moot, you nailed it. thats where things aint the same no more...
its not 'victories' now its just plain old 'kills'.
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ah well done moot, you nailed it. thats where things aint the same no more...
its not 'victories' now its just plain old 'kills'.
Jebus aint that the truth.Players trading off respect in pursuit of the Holy Grail of scores.Kinda sad to see. :frown:
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Perfect Mark !!!
Back when I started in AH I days, you would very rarely see people landing 5+ kill sorties and when they did, it usually was the "cream of the crop" players landing them ... and you knew that they weren't all 'picks' or 'vulches' ... they were air-to-air.
Back then it was all about the 'fight' and the majority fought it out 'till the end ... most didn't run because there was more respect to be gained in becoming known as a 'fighter' rather than a 'runner'.
I pop into the LW MAs on occasion and see many 5+ kill sorties pop up in the text buffer ... and the names ... never heard of them ... and I think most likely a very long 'cherry pick' sortie or the vulch lamp was lit somewhere on the map.
Yep I'd agree with this.. There are very flew players that could actually duke it out and land 5 "real" kills in a sortie. Only time I even bother with giving "wtg's' anymore is when I know it's someone whom likely fought the good fight. I'll take 1 good kill in a hard fought fight over 5 or 6 easy pickings any day of the week.
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Easy enough to check..... KPH :lol
Kills per hour is meaningless IMO.. KPH generally caters to guys that just jump into a mindless furball and that's where most of the easy "safe" kills come from. That is why I hate most furballs, because that's where picking and gang tardism is at it's worst.
Me, I give props to the guys that go out on their own to fight, no big scores will ever come of that.
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Yep I'd agree with this.. There are very flew players that could actually duke it out and land 5 "real" kills in a sortie. Only time I even bother with giving "wtg's' anymore is when I know it's someone whom likely fought the good fight. I'll take 1 good kill in a hard fought fight over 5 or 6 easy pickings any day of the week.
i could name a couple........at least one seems to think he's an airborn goddess :rofl
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Kills per hour is meaningless IMO.. KPH generally caters to guys that just jump into a mindless furball and that's where most of the easy "safe" kills come from. That is why I hate most furballs, because that's where picking and gang tardism is at it's worst.
Me, I give props to the guys that go out on their own to fight, no big scores will ever come of that.
see..the thing with furballs, is that i don't understand how you can score "safe" kills?
i die almost every time i jump into a furball.......it's a blast in them though........constantly having to check your 6, trying to decide who's the worst threat, dodging the occasional ho attempt, trying to not end up in the trees, and if you suffer an engine hit, trying to see your targets through an oil covered windscreen......and when i t comes down to it..it feels like a virtual roller coaster ride....
<<S>>
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see..the thing with furballs, is that i don't understand how you can score "safe" kills?
i die almost every time i jump into a furball.......it's a blast in them though........constantly having to check your 6, trying to decide who's the worst threat, dodging the occasional ho attempt, trying to not end up in the trees, and if you suffer an engine hit, trying to see your targets through an oil covered windscreen......and when i t comes down to it..it feels like a virtual roller coaster ride....
<<S>>
There is a lot of safety in numbers.. In a furball there is almost always someone there to help you get out of trouble, assuming you don't fall trap to the other side's gang bang. That's why I say Furballs are typically just gang bang vs gang bang feeding on the cannon fodder whom get stuck in the middle. That or until one side can push it to the other sides base to get even easier kills.
KPH stat does nothing but reward vulching and gang tards. There is no stat for guys that go out and fight it out one on one or always fight out numbered. You will never see those guys on the front page at end of a tour.
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That post of mine should've read "doesn't matter whether the victories are shallow or not", which was meant as irony.. It could be read the same way, but I wasn't contradicting the guys above that post.
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Kills per hour is meaningless IMO.. KPH generally caters to guys that just jump into a mindless furball and that's where most of the easy "safe" kills come from. That is why I hate most furballs, because that's where picking and gang tardism is at it's worst.
Me, I give props to the guys that go out on their own to fight, no big scores will ever come of that.
Your wrong.
Safe kills are not in a furball... safe kills are on the far outer edges where those types might fly around a bit before finding someone busy enough not to see them. Higher KPH generally means they up at a base being attacked... no long flight time there. Most folks are too busy watching their own area to be watching any others.
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Your wrong.
Safe kills are not in a furball... safe kills are on the far outer edges where those types might fly around a bit before finding someone busy enough not to see them. Higher KPH generally means they up at a base being attacked... no long flight time there. Most folks are too busy watching their own area to be watching any others.
Your crazy.. If I fly in the furball, I live most of the time and get pretty easy kills. Flying the edges of the furball doesn't mean 20k alt away from the fight, hovering over your own base hising in ack. Flying the edges of the FB is where you end up in the most 1 vs X amount of cons because you tend to have to go to the edges closest to the enemy base.
In other words, I fly past the FB away from the safety net of the green hoard. I typically try to get a con or two to come away from the mass. If you think that's safer then you likely haven't ever done it.
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There is a lot of safety in numbers.. In a furball there is almost always someone there to help you get out of trouble, assuming you don't fall trap to the other side's gang bang. That's why I say Furballs are typically just gang bang vs gang bang feeding on the cannon fodder whom get stuck in the middle. That or until one side can push it to the other sides base to get even easier kills.
KPH stat does nothing but reward vulching and gang tards. There is no stat for guys that go out and fight it out one on one or always fight out numbered. You will never see those guys on the front page at end of a tour.
Not sure what furball you've been in, but that's not the kind I end up in. If I survive them, it's usually all shot up, one engine dead, parts missing and a couple of kills if I'm lucky. It's a constant turn and adjust, watch for the high guys coming down, whose trying to turn in behind me, SA madness time. But it's fun because it forces you to work harder and think quicker as you are adjusting to more then one bad guy, and depending on what you fly into those furballs, you can be the first target too. I know that I look for the guys not in Spits and LAs because they'll more often then not be the bigger threat. And It sure seems to me that my big old 38G draws plenty of attention as it's so easy to hit :)
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KPH also runs high for those who defend against the hordes. If you can get some kills and easily fly home, it's more likely a gangbang than a furball.
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My favorite furball
(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2659/jan31gal12pw7.jpg)
By cueshack2000 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/cueshack2000) at 2008-04-16
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Your crazy.. If I fly in the furball, I live most of the time and get pretty easy kills. Flying the edges of the furball doesn't mean 20k alt away from the fight, hovering over your own base hising in ack. Flying the edges of the FB is where you end up in the most 1 vs X amount of cons because you tend to have to go to the edges closest to the enemy base.
In other words, I fly past the FB away from the safety net of the green hoard. I typically try to get a con or two to come away from the mass. If you think that's safer then you likely haven't ever done it.
LOL Me being crazy has nothing to do with it.... even though many think I am certifiable. You seem to think a furball is a horde..... it isn't, a furball is alot of planes in a small general area. They can be stacked from the deck on up. This can contain even numbers or favor one or the other. Numbers change greatly in the blink of an eye. As Cap'n Dan (in my best Forrest Gump) says.... "our 38s are usually targeted because of their size".
OOOOOOOoooo LOOK I CAN CATCH MY HAND!
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KPH also runs high for those who defend against the hordes. If you can get some kills and easily fly home, it's more likely a gangbang than a furball.
Yep, cuz in AH, there is a steady stream of A\C entering the ball. The longer you stay, and fight the more fun you're gonna have, but don't bank on getting out.
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LOL Me being crazy has nothing to do with it.... even though many think I am certifiable. You seem to think a furball is a horde..... it isn't, a furball is alot of planes in a small general area. They can be stacked from the deck on up. This can contain even numbers or favor one or the other. Numbers change greatly in the blink of an eye. As Cap'n Dan (in my best Forrest Gump) says.... "our 38s are usually targeted because of their size".
OOOOOOOoooo LOOK I CAN CATCH MY HAND!
ok at least we can both agree that you are crazy.. :D
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KPH also runs high for those who defend against the hordes. If you can get some kills and easily fly home, it's more likely a gangbang than a furball.
Yea but there aren't enough raids that come in to have that really help your KPH for a whole tour. I do up and defend bases quite a bit, but that's not enough to make up for all the time spent flying around looking for smaller 1 on 1 or 1 on 2 fights.
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i wish i could lock threads. although yeah i would have to lock most of mine too.
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Yea but there aren't enough raids that come in to have that really help your KPH for a whole tour. I do up and defend bases quite a bit, but that's not enough to make up for all the time spent flying around looking for smaller 1 on 1 or 1 on 2 fights.
You might not get top 10 KPH stats defending, but top 100, definitely. Out of what, 5 or 6 thousand players, I'd say that's maintaining a high KPH. I'm average on a good day, but typically had high KPH simply from defending fields.