Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: E2hawkey on January 11, 2009, 08:56:25 AM
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www.infowars.com at 2am newyears police shot&killed grant laying face down one officer knee on neck when the shooter stood up pulled his glock and shot Grant in the back caught on cell cam by more than one person view as www.infowars.com or Alex jones show on you tube the officer is on paid leave
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Worse things happened that day.
Anyway, from viewing the videos, one he (Oscar) was struggling with officers, and secondly, it looked to be an accidental discharge.
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Worse things happened that day.
Anyway, from viewing the videos, one he (Oscar) was struggling with officers, and secondly, it looked to be an accidental discharge.
Ok struggling.. face down.. one cop on his neck... ok draw Glock {with muli safetys)point and accidentaly discharge>> Ok Duhh ill buy that one (Yeah right) thanks for your opinion Officer Smkelly13 (blue line Atwork) <S> mr grant was every american that day if it can happen to him could be each& everyone of us
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There is no excuse for this. This "LEO" must be held to the same standards that he holds the "perps".
I'm tired of hearing about how stressful their job is. They pursue this career. There is no room for mistakes or misjudgement within the law; they don't allow it from us and we shouldn't allow it from them. The very fact that this guy isn't in jail right now is a firm indication of the corruptness of the system. I don't care if he's a "stand-up guy". There are thousands of "stand-up guys" in prison. Being a "stand-up guy" is no excuse for the law. If any other "stand-up guy" were to shoot someone in the back as they lay defenseless on the ground the powers that be would prosecute them (as well the should) to the fullest extent of the law.
There should be a thousand overturned cop cars burning in the streets right now. And shame on anyone who would defend such actions or chastise anyone for rioting. If the police shot your buddy in the back while you watched you would be angry too. Many here have talked about the bull of no-knock warrants and then shrug and give this a pass.
Furthermore, his fellow officers witnessed a felony taking place and let him walk away; they let him go home. In fact, they acted like nothing out of the ordinary had transpired. They are all accomplices. Every "LEO" that was on that train platform needs to do time.
THIS CAN NOT STAND!
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Yes!
Burn every house and car you see!
Punch babies laying in their cribs!
Laugh at the Special Olympics!
ANARCHY!!
VIVA LA REVOLUCION!
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Ok struggling.. face down.. one cop on his neck... ok draw Glock {with muli safetys)point and accidentaly discharge>> Ok Duhh ill buy that one (Yeah right) thanks for your opinion Officer Smkelly13 (blue line Atwork) <S> mr grant was every american that day if it can happen to him could be each& everyone of us
IIRC, don't Glocks have a known history of accidental discharges?
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Yes!
Burn every house and car you see!
Punch babies laying in their cribs!
Laugh at the Special Olympics!
ANARCHY!!
VIVA LA REVOLUCION!
I said burn overturned cop cars. I don't advocate baby punching or laughing at retards (except here).
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Guilty until proven innocent??
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I said burn overturned cop cars. I don't advocate baby punching or laughing at retards (except here).
Haha.
Oh, sorry...
Yes, screw your tax dollars, burn them piggies whips.
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Apparently you're as blind as your grammar is bad.
A person is quite capable of struggling with someone on top of them. And if you watch closely, the look upon the officers face, it looks like an accidental discharge. Observation.
Grant had a criminal record and served time at state prison in 2007 and 2008 and was involved in twelve cases between April 2004 and May 2008. Grant, who had also been convicted of drug dealing, had been sentenced to 16 months in state prison in 2007 after he fled from a traffic stop while armed with a loaded pistol. Grant was most recently released from prison September 23, corrections officials said.
Yep. This man was quite the upstanding citizen and I doubt he'd NEVER cause a problem with police officers.
You are right on one thing though, he was an American.
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Guilty until proven innocent??
I'll take that over summary execution any day of the week.
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There is no excuse for this. This "LEO" must be held to the same standards that he holds the "perps".
I'm tired of hearing about how stressful their job is. They pursue this career. There is no room for mistakes or misjudgement within the law; they don't allow it from us and we shouldn't allow it from them. The very fact that this guy isn't in jail right now is a firm indication of the corruptness of the system. I don't care if he's a "stand-up guy". There are thousands of "stand-up guys" in prison. Being a "stand-up guy" is no excuse for the law. If any other "stand-up guy" were to shoot someone in the back as they lay defenseless on the ground the powers that be would prosecute them (as well the should) to the fullest extent of the law.
There should be a thousand overturned cop cars burning in the streets right now. And shame on anyone who would defend such actions or chastise anyone for rioting. If the police shot your buddy in the back while you watched you would be angry too. Many here have talked about the bull of no-knock warrants and then shrug and give this a pass.
Furthermore, his fellow officers witnessed a felony taking place and let him walk away; they let him go home. In fact, they acted like nothing out of the ordinary had transpired. They are all accomplices. Every "LEO" that was on that train platform needs to do time.
THIS CAN NOT STAND!
Calm down slug, you'll give yourself a heartattack!
Seems like someones had one to many cavity searches, or been frisked too hard. ;)
On a serious note, if Oscar was maliciously shoot, without accident, then yes, the officer should be held to the same standard as we normal folk. If it's proven that it was accidental though, he should still receive some sort of punishment. As I've said though, it looked like he was struggling, which intensifies situations, even battle hardened pilots make profoundly harmful mistakes. And the discharge of the weapon to me, indicates it was an accidental discharge.
BTW, I'll remind you of this: "They pursue this career" when you complain about your job, or whatever else you decide to complain about! :D
The biggest thing that irritates me is the fact that the racial movement led by the moron tandem of Jesse Jackson & Al Sharpton. Just because a African-American gets shot by a white man doesn't mean it's racially motivated. I'm sure Jackson/Sharpton would have plenty of backdoor excuses if someone said "So when a African-American man rapes a white woman it's racially motivated."
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Ok struggling.. face down.. one cop on his neck... ok draw Glock {with muli safetys)point and accidentaly discharge>> Ok Duhh ill buy that one (Yeah right) thanks for your opinion Officer Smkelly13 (blue line Atwork) <S> mr grant was every american that day if it can happen to him could be each& everyone of us
Don't know what you mean with 'muli safety' but Glock is famous for having only triggerhead safety meaning you can discharge it any time by pressing the trigger from the tip if it's cocked.
From the video it seemed like the security was under high pressure facing a half riot with loud music playing and a bunch of intoxicated zombies hovering around.
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infowars website is a load of crap
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IIRC, don't Glocks have a known history of accidental discharges?
i forget what model they carry, but i had a friend that used to be a cherry hill cop......the handguns they carried, and no safetys according to him.
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Calm down slug, you'll give yourself a heartattack!
Seems like someones had one to many cavity searches, or been frisked too hard. ;)
On a serious note, if Oscar was maliciously shoot, without accident, then yes, the officer should be held to the same standard as we normal folk. If it's proven that it was accidental though, he should still receive some sort of punishment. As I've said though, it looked like he was struggling, which intensifies situations, even battle hardened pilots make profoundly harmful mistakes. And the discharge of the weapon to me, indicates it was an accidental discharge.
BTW, I'll remind you of this: "They pursue this career" when you complain about your job, or whatever else you decide to complain about! :D
The biggest thing that irritates me is the fact that the racial movement led by the moron tandem of Jesse Jackson & Al Sharpton. Just because a African-American gets shot by a white man doesn't mean it's racially motivated. I'm sure Jackson/Sharpton would have plenty of backdoor excuses if someone said "So when a African-American man rapes a white woman it's racially motivated."
there are three videos posted by onlookers if ya watched em there would be no debate here the cop shot in cold blood
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Don't know what you mean with 'muli safety' but Glock is famous for having only triggerhead safety meaning you can discharge it any time by pressing the trigger from the tip if it's cocked.
From the video it seemed like the security was under high pressure facing a half riot with loud music playing and a bunch of intoxicated zombies hovering around.
safety #1 stays in holster #2 finger not on trigger where safety#3 (some models pressure plate safety for & aft the grip)
oh and as far as the high pressure with drunkin zombies around?! your right pull your gun cap the guy & show the rest whos in charge? good god people some of you look at what you say that could have been any one of us or our kids
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safety #1 stays in holster #2 finger not on trigger where safety#3 (some models pressure plate safety for & aft the grip)
:huh
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BOTH hands visible..."yes officer....NO officer".....damn few bad things happen if ya start off that way.....poke a bear in the eye with a stick long enough and something will probably happen. Obviously that doesn't excuse what happened, but cops (and I frikkin HATE cops, more so as I get older....as they seem to spend a large part of their time in my area generating revenue off of honest people trying to go about their lives) don't arbitrarily pick people at random and shoot them
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safety #1 stays in holster #2 finger not on trigger where safety#3 (some models pressure plate safety for & aft the grip)
oh and as far as the high pressure with drunkin zombies around?! your right pull your gun cap the guy & show the rest whos in charge? good god people some of you look at what you say that could have been any one of us or our kids
From the video it looked like the guards had an impending attack from the crowd and the guy probably pulled his gun because of that. It went off accidentally from what I saw in the film.
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Apparently you're as blind as your grammar is bad.
A person is quite capable of struggling with someone on top of them. And if you watch closely, the look upon the officers face, it looks like an accidental discharge. Observation.
Yep. This man was quite the upstanding citizen and I doubt he'd NEVER cause a problem with police officers.
You are right on one thing though, he was an American.
Geeze since ya put it that way i guess he hadit coming eh the look on the officers face was either oh watermelon i did it with all the people watching or dam i wish i had more bullets you saw the expressionon his face uhm how still could you be with a knee in your neck and one in your back ya say ya saw the vids?
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Que dijo?
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OK this test of opinions is over it served my agenda :D thank you all for playing along
opinions are still what they always were (prettythang) oles everyones got em and they all stink :salute
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BOTH hands visible..."yes officer....NO officer".....damn few bad things happen if ya start off that way.....poke a bear in the eye with a stick long enough and something will probably happen. Obviously that doesn't excuse what happened, but cops (and I frikkin HATE cops, more so as I get older....as they seem to spend a large part of their time in my area generating revenue off of honest people trying to go about their lives) don't arbitrarily pick people at random and shoot them
exactly what i said in the other forum......
cops generating revenue. :rofl i have to go to court this tuesday, because i have my business name on my van. one of somerdales finest pulled me over because i didn't have commercial tags on it. i was such a danger to others, that it requires me to appear in court for this. :rofl
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I'll take that over summary execution any day of the week.
I guess you feel guilty until proven innocent only applies to the LEO? Maybe if we attach the same to the guy on the ground, he must have had it coming.
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good god people some of you look at what you say that could have been any one of us or our kids
I doubt that since MOST law abiding citizens wouldn't make the cops have to throw them down and have 2 or 3 of them wrestle with him just to get cuffs on him. If he had done what the cops had said, he would be alive today.
I'm not saying he deserved it, but he is the one that set up the situation.
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I heard that the officer already resigned from the police so that he can take the 5th instead of testifying. Is this true?
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The way the officers reacted when the 2 of the suspects attempted to stand up seems to me they were starting to get a little aggressive. If you've never been in the position to be handcuffed you might not know it, but it is indeed possible to struggle. I personally would have done things differently in that situation. Due to the crowd noise it's impossible to hear any conversation between the officers and the suspect which is usually a major part of cases such as this.
That being said there is never an excuse of accidental discharge of a weapon of any sort. There is a lot of work that has to be done when an officer fires his gun lawfully. To think he would fire his weapon at someone clearly not a threat is absurd. The implications for doing such are career ending.
It could have been any one of us, but there is almost always legislation and changes that come about when tragedies like this happen. If you feel so strongly about this issue, Hawkey, there are ways to contact your representatives in your state and in Washington about it.
Sluggish-I dearly hope you were being sarcastic in your post. That type of thinking is exactly the reason why the general population think they are losing their rights, because people can't behave in a responsible manner. Take some time to gather your thoughts before posting on an emotional topic like this.
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I heard that the officer already resigned from the police so that he can take the 5th instead of testifying. Is this true?
We have no way of knowing his reasoning but he has resigned his position and the police are hiding him for his protection. Why they haven't arrested him is a question that is a telling tale.
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The way the officers reacted when the 2 of the suspects attempted to stand up seems to me they were starting to get a little aggressive. If you've never been in the position to be handcuffed you might not know it, but it is indeed possible to struggle. I personally would have done things differently in that situation. Due to the crowd noise it's impossible to hear any conversation between the officers and the suspect which is usually a major part of cases such as this.
That being said there is never an excuse of accidental discharge of a weapon of any sort. There is a lot of work that has to be done when an officer fires his gun lawfully. To think he would fire his weapon at someone clearly not a threat is absurd. The implications for doing such are career ending.
It could have been any one of us, but there is almost always legislation and changes that come about when tragedies like this happen. If you feel so strongly about this issue, Hawkey, there are ways to contact your representatives in your state and in Washington about it.
Sluggish-I dearly hope you were being sarcastic in your post. That type of thinking is exactly the reason why the general population think they are losing their rights, because people can't behave in a responsible manner. Take some time to gather your thoughts before posting on an emotional topic like this.
You're kidding, right? Someone is dead and you're concerned about this idiots career? Why the hell isn't this guy in jail? If it was any non "LEO" they would have been locked up on the spot and already arraigned before a judge. Instead his "brothers" are hiding him not only from a lynch mob, but also from justice. Their is NO excuse for this. No sarcasm. I meant every word of it and you have no right to brow beat me about my level of passion in this absolute miscarriage of justice.
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You're kidding, right? Someone is dead and you're concerned about this idiots career? Why the hell isn't this guy in jail? If it was any non "LEO" they would have been locked up on the spot and already arraigned before a judge. Instead his "brothers" are hiding him not only from a lynch mob, but also from justice. Their is NO excuse for this. No sarcasm. I meant every word of it and you have no right to brow beat me about my level of passion in this absolute miscarriage of justice.
exactly!! this is one of the meny points im trying to make here to show how dumb the law and media think americans are the un cut videos (there were three) different people that rolled cameras and kept quiet these were being posted by 3 am the start to finish non-manipulated but at this date the internet is flooded with edited footage and the funny thing is i can tell wich videos any person has seen based on the context of terms implanted in the mindset by the media wich directs the viewer to form an intended opinion & response i started this thread to prove a point to a friend and every post proved a point thankyou
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exactly what i said in the other forum......
cops generating revenue. :rofl i have to go to court this tuesday, because i have my business name on my van. one of somerdales finest pulled me over because i didn't have commercial tags on it. i was such a danger to others, that it requires me to appear in court for this. :rofl
in seeing the first footage (i happed to recieve it as it was posted i saw grant and his friends sitting along the floor the fight was with others not grant and his friends (if your pumped up from a fight your not gonna sit on the floor) police were pumped up and ordered them to stand up grant made it to his knees hands up in a non aggressive manner when they grabbed him and slammed him face down of course at this point police have to get grants hands behind his back right? 2 cop attemptiong to do the same thing while applying full body pressure by knee and the human arms have limited movement right but as a bystander it could be viewed as a struggle we cant pretend we havint seen this before
and eh why would the cop lawyer up fil 1 shows clearly why he stood un holstered brace by other hand looked at his gun and fired remember i said there are three video three angle and the image is burned in memory as well as CD if ya cant find em pm me :salute
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Punctuation was a wonderful invention. I hate to see it go to waste.
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Punctuation was a wonderful invention. I hate to see it go to waste.
LOL
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Punctuation was a wonderful invention. I hate to see it go to waste.
:aok
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I doubt that since MOST law abiding citizens wouldn't make the cops have to throw them down and have 2 or 3 of them wrestle with him just to get cuffs on him. If he had done what the cops had said, he would be alive today.
I'm not saying he deserved it, but he is the one that set up the situation.
You obviously have not seen the video. Oscar Grant was not resisting, he was cooperative and was still shot in the back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKy-WSZMklc&fmt=18
Mr. Grant is not fighting back at all. He does appear to be getting up at one point with his hands up. Directly following that he is moved to a prone position on his stomach by the officers. Due to the sequence of events I believe he was cooperating with the officers when he started moving. Prior to that he was siting peacefully next to the wall. Mr. Grant certainly wasn't thrown down nor did the officers wrestle with him in order to cuff him. Indeed, it doesn't look like they even got cuffs on him before he was shot.
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The government, including the police are are WAY out of control in this country.
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You obviously have not seen the video. Oscar Grant was not resisting, he was cooperative and was still shot in the back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKy-WSZMklc&fmt=18
Mr. Grant is not fighting back at all. He does appear to be getting up at one point with his hands up. Directly following that he is moved to a prone position on his stomach by the officers. Due to the sequence of events I believe he was cooperating with the officers when he started moving. Prior to that he was siting peacefully next to the wall. Mr. Grant certainly wasn't thrown down nor did the officers wrestle with him in order to cuff him. Indeed, it doesn't look like they even got cuffs on him before he was shot.
If you do what the officer says you don't end up on the ground. That happens when you try to resist. Treat them with the utmost respect, EVEN when you know you haven't done anything wrong, and you won't have a situation like that happen to you.
Bottom line is, don't do anything that will have cops coming after you. If people did that, there would be less crime in the world.
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i cant say what i was going too i wasint even going to post another comment however I'm compelled too
the unwritten rules of conducting ones self in a situation with police changes city by city state by state the yes sir no sir though reasonable in some areas may be seen a sarcastic in others i live very close to Miami where one can find them selves a single wrong word away from hell on earth with officers in a situation just going to buy milk it sure doesint look like he was gently set in prone what with the knees and all had the cops prone me as a potential threat and I'm in a wheelchair knee to neck and knee to kidney like i was a real threat stop making excuses for the cop! it is what it is!
the system is failing admit it and that's it Roy can you lock this thread sir <<my mistake
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I'm not making excuses for the cop. Its common sense that if a cop comes up to you that you cooperate with him wether you did anything wrong or not. IF the cop does anything out of line after that then he will answer for it, but the problem today is there are too many paopel out there that don't respect the authority that badge gives them. Sure there are some that shouldn't be wearing it but there are FAR MORE of them that deserve respect for putting thier lives on the line to protect and to serve.
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If you do what the officer says you don't end up on the ground. That happens when you try to resist. Treat them with the utmost respect, EVEN when you know you haven't done anything wrong, and you won't have a situation like that happen to you.
Bottom line is, don't do anything that will have cops coming after you. If people did that, there would be less crime in the world.
You obviously still have not watched the video. Oscar Grant did not resist at all. Commenting without watching the video isn't all that smart. ;)
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I'm not making excuses for the cop. Its common sense that if a cop comes up to you that you cooperate with him wether you did anything wrong or not. IF the cop does anything out of line after that then he will answer for it, but the problem today is there are too many paopel out there that don't respect the authority that badge gives them. Sure there are some that shouldn't be wearing it but there are FAR MORE of them that deserve respect for putting thier lives on the line to protect and to serve.
That's just it, far to often the officer DOESN'T have to answer for it.
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That's just it, far to often the officer DOESN'T have to answer for it.
For example...................... .......
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For example...................... .......
Multiple police shootings that have been on this board, we talk about the shooting itself and then that's the last we hear of it. They protect their own.
If I was a betting man, I'd bet that Oscar Grant's killer won't even go to criminal trial. It will be ruled an accidental discharge and no criminal charges will be filed. Could be wrong, but that's my bet.
If it was me or you that had an accidental discharge that killed someone we'd be up on charges for negligent homicide.
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Multiple police shootings that have been on this board, we talk about the shooting itself and then that's the last we hear of it. They protect their own.
If it happens so often and they have nothing done about it then you should be able to produce many examples.
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If it happens so often and they have nothing done about it then you should be able to produce many examples.
Watch this video and then explain why this officer has not been arrested. This is a prime example.
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You obviously still have not watched the video. Oscar Grant did not resist at all. Commenting without watching the video isn't all that smart. ;)
I didn't watch it. My belief is the officer is responsible for his weapon. Shooting someone in custody is not something that is to be accepted. Now if the perp is not following instructions then I can see possibly pulling ones weapon.
I have no idea why this guy was being pulled to the side or what he did. I do know that if he did something to cause the police to be called then he is the one who set this all in motion. I see too many folks just flat disrespect the police. I have seen an officer or two disrespect an individual when it was not warranted. It's best to follow the rules / laws so you don't have these run-ins.
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That's just it, far to often the officer DOESN'T have to answer for it.
Well, it sounded good.
Multiple police shootings that have been on this board, we talk about the shooting itself and then that's the last we hear of it. They protect their own.
"Multiple shootings on this board"? :lol "The last we hear of it"? :rofl So name them and then tell us about how the investigation is going.
Watch this video and then explain why this officer has not been arrested. This is a prime example.
My guess is the local prosecutor has access to more evidence then some computer creation named Elfie.
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I have no idea why this guy was being pulled to the side or what he did. I do know that if he did something to cause the police to be called then he is the one who set this all in motion. I see too many folks just flat disrespect the police. I have seen an officer or two disrespect an individual when it was not warranted. It's best to follow the rules / laws so you don't have these run-ins.
Exactly my point.
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"Multiple shootings on this board"? :lol "The last we hear of it"? :rofl So name them and then tell us about how the investigation is going.
My guess is the local prosecutor has access to more evidence then some computer creation named Elfie.
I'd like to know as well if there are ALOT of incidents like this where the cop doesn't have anything happen to them. We're still waiting for some news on that.
Its funny how people see a 1 or 2 minute grainy video, jump to all kinds of conclusions without getting the whole story.
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I'd like to know as well if there are ALOT of incidents like this where the cop doesn't have anything happen to them. We're still waiting for some news on that.
Its funny how people see a 1 or 2 minute grainy video, jump to all kinds of conclusions without getting the whole story.
It's not just incidents like this, it's the whole professional courtesy thing. Cops don't tell on cops or write cops tickets. I've spoken with cops at length who bragged about the whole professional courtesy thing, one of whom I worked with at a part time job.
On this board two other shooting incidents that were discussed were the one with the cop standing on the hood of a moving car like he thought he was Dirty Harry firing rounds through the windshield, another incident where a cop shot an MP in the back several times after telling him twice to get up. (Video's of both of those were posted here.)
Funny how you jumped to conclusions without even seeing the video. Still haven't seen it is my guess because the video isn't *grainy* at all. It's quite clear.
I doubt that since MOST law abiding citizens wouldn't make the cops have to throw them down and have 2 or 3 of them wrestle with him just to get cuffs on him. If he had done what the cops had said, he would be alive today.
I'm not saying he deserved it, but he is the one that set up the situation.
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Well, it sounded good.
"Multiple shootings on this board"? :lol "The last we hear of it"? :rofl So name them and then tell us about how the investigation is going.
My guess is the local prosecutor has access to more evidence then some computer creation named Elfie.
Ahh the whole look down your nose at the citizens post. We are all to familiar with these posts from you. :rolleyes:
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It's not just incidents like this, it's the whole professional courtesy thing. Cops don't tell on cops or write cops tickets. I've spoken with cops at length who bragged about the whole professional courtesy thing, one of whom I worked with at a part time job.
On this board two other shooting incidents that were discussed were the one with the cop standing on the hood of a moving car like he thought he was Dirty Harry firing rounds through the windshield, another incident where a cop shot an MP in the back several times after telling him twice to get up. (Video's of both of those were posted here.)
Funny how you jumped to conclusions without even seeing the video. Still haven't seen it is my guess because the video isn't *grainy* at all. It's quite clear.
The first incident I saw. The guy was speeding away from the cop all over the place and when he stopped and the cop got out, he tried to run over him. The cop ended up on the hood yelling at him to stop. He was justified in shooting since the guy was using the car as a weapon.
Haven't seen or heard anything on the second one.
As for the video, yes I saw it. Its grainy and the big question is why were the cops called? Why were there several other people sitting around cuffed? What was being said that set up the situation? These are questions you and the public don't have. All you have is a short grainy cell phone video showing the results and not what led up to it. Funny how YOU jump to conclusions without getting the whole story.
By the way, I have a brother who is a Fed.
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The first incident I saw. The guy was speeding away from the cop all over the place and when he stopped and the cop got out, he tried to run over him. The cop ended up on the hood yelling at him to stop. He was justified in shooting since the guy was using the car as a weapon.
Haven't seen or heard anything on the second one.
As for the video, yes I saw it. Its grainy and the big question is why were the cops called? Why were there several other people sitting around cuffed? What was being said that set up the situation? These are questions you and the public don't have. All you have is a short grainy cell phone video showing the results and not what led up to it. Funny how YOU jump to conclusions without getting the whole story.
By the way, I have a brother who is a Fed.
Actually, the video I saw posted here never showed the guy trying to run over the cop.
The video posted on this event is certainly not HD quality but it isn't grainy either. The events can be seen quite clearly.
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What upset me the most, is how the rest of the cops acted after the shot was fired.
One cop folds his arms, and stand there, before almost being hit in the head by someone, if it was a accident, dont you think the cops should have been showing more emotion than "jus' tryin' to keep the peace mam" Not a single one of those (cops) put up there hand and said anything like "woah woah woah, it was an accident, we need to get this man some medical attention now!"
no instead it was "oh shoot frank, you just shot him, were all gonna die down here."
Get use to the police state rising people, this is not the last you have seen of things like this. only reason we are so outraged is because some girl recorded it,then had to FLEE from the very same metro cops trying to take the evidence "give us your phone".
Anyone who is shot while face down, hands behind there back, was executed.
After that gun shot, every single cop stood up, and took a self protecting stance as to say "job well done here"
Not a single one started removing clothing, or checking the wound, trying to put something over the bleeding.(HELP HELP!)
They had one thing in mind "where is that damned camera!?, give it here, NOW..i am the law!"
And guys, police forces and military and U.N. solders have been trained for years now, how to kill civilians, maby he just fergot the NWO was not due to kick off so soon.
Remember that.
Edit: oh okay he was not handcuffed, and the video i saw was taken from the other side of the train, odd how it shows cops helping him, in the video i saw he jus gets shot, a few moment later the cop almost gets hit in the head by a flying object, and the girl runs back inside the train while being fallowed closely by a female cop.
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:lol
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In the video I linked, there is actually two different videos of the incident. The first one is pretty crappy because the person who is holding the phone keeps moving it around. The second video is actually pretty decent quality and shows the event's much clearer and without people in the way.
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They picked him up in NV on a fugitive warrant. It would seem that he knew it was gonna hit the fan.
shamus
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As for the video, yes I saw it. Its grainy and the big question is why were the cops called? Why were there several other people sitting around cuffed? What was being said that set up the situation? These are questions you and the public don't have. All you have is a short grainy cell phone video showing the results and not what led up to it. Funny how YOU jump to conclusions without getting the whole story.
There was a report of a fight on the BART train between a group of party goers. It is not clear whether or not Grant was part of either of the groups taking part in the fight. The BART police just yanked everyone from that train to try and figure out what was going on.
There is also speculation that the BART cop by accident pulled his service weapon instead of his Taser. Anyway, the cop should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and serve prison time if convicted.
ack-ack
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On a related note Cops with tasers kill more people yearly than accidental gunfire.
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It amazes me at all the second guessing of police everywhere and everytime something like this happens. Talk about a high stress job where if a mistake is made, someone can get hurt. I can make a mistake at work and it does have a large repercussion. He does and someone dies. These guys are human just like you and me and make mistakes. Still have yet to see someone be able to put their pants on both legs at a time. Some people here think they can. The video posted was grainy and I can't believe that you can infer that the perp was acting in a calm and collected manner. From what I saw, it was the end of what happened and not the beginning. People were in the way and the cops were moving around. Just remember this. Rodney King was high on drugs when he was beaten and RESISTING ARREST. We only saw the few minutes of video that the press wanted us to see. The website linked at the beginning of this thread is one of those crackpot 9/11 truther websites. Do you really think that they will give the whole story?
I am not a cop, but I lean toward giving the police the benefit of the doubt the majority of the time. There are a few bad apples out there and unfortunately, it is opinions such as at the beginning fo the board that has fostered a "fear" of police. Hopw many times do we have to see some dink talking back to the cops or not following the policeman orders. If they would have just listened in the first place. Does noone have respect for authority anymore?
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I have never respected authority for authority's sake, have always been civil for the most part but respect is a mutual thing.
This guy screwed up royal and I hope that it was just a mistake on his part, if not, and that will never be proven, we are in deep stuff if thats what is coming out of the academy these days.
shamus
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There is also speculation that the BART cop by accident pulled his service weapon instead of his Taser. Anyway, the cop should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and serve prison time if convicted.
I guess you skipped the Law School class where they explained the term "intent".
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On a related note Cops with tasers kill more people yearly than accidental gunfire.
I didn't know that. Interesting.
It amazes me at all the second guessing of police everywhere and everytime something like this happens.
If you don't question them now were not far from being hauled off to the "camps" for "re-education" or some other calamity.
ALWAYS question authority.
I have never respected authority for authority's sake, have always been civil for the most part but respect is a mutual thing.
This guy screwed up royal and I hope that it was just a mistake on his part, if not, and that will never be proven, we are in deep stuff if thats what is coming out of the academy these days.
shamus
Like this guy. If an authority shows you no respect, you have no reason to respect it.
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I guess you skipped the Law School class where they explained the term "intent".
Are you saying that the state has to prove "intent" before you can be sentenced to prison there Mr. Scalia?
shamus
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I guess you skipped the Law School class where they explained the term "intent".
Intent matters not if it is a civilian doing this. A civilian would be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law in the case of an accidental shooting that resulted in a death. Our public servants should be held to just as high a standard if not a higher standard than the civilians are.
I have never respected authority for authority's sake, have always been civil for the most part but respect is a mutual thing.
Respect is most certainly a mutual thing. To many LEO's show no respect whatsoever to the civilians they are supposed to be protecting, those LEO's get no respect from me in return. Otoh, there are LEO's that genuinely respect others, those LEO's get my utmost respect for the job they do. There is an LEO in this thread that belongs in the first group for me.
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There was a report of a fight on the BART train between a group of party goers. It is not clear whether or not Grant was part of either of the groups taking part in the fight. The BART police just yanked everyone from that train to try and figure out what was going on.
There is also speculation that the BART cop by accident pulled his service weapon instead of his Taser. Anyway, the cop should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and serve prison time if convicted.
ack-ack
I'm having a hard time figuring out how a cop pulls a (black) gun instead of a (yellow) Taser without knowing it. Does he not look before pulling the trigger? Even so do you not naturally move the weapon out in front of your body before pulling the trigger?
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Looked like it went off right as he pulled it out of the holster.
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I'm having a hard time figuring out how a cop pulls a (black) gun instead of a (yellow) Taser without knowing it. Does he not look before pulling the trigger? Even so do you not naturally move the weapon out in front of your body before pulling the trigger?
I have a tough time myself understand it but that one 'theory' that is being thrown out as a possible defense.
As for Dick's 'intent' comment, it seems that the DA is claiming it was an intentional shooting and the guy is being charged with murder. I guess the DA didn't miss the class on 'intent'.
ack-ack
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I have a tough time myself understand it but that one 'theory' that is being thrown out as a possible defense.
As for Dick's 'intent' comment, it seems that the DA is claiming it was an intentional shooting and the guy is being charged with murder. I guess the DA didn't miss the class on 'intent'.
ack-ack
Maybe Dick missed the class on intent. ;)
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It amazes me at all the second guessing of police everywhere and everytime something like this happens. Talk about a high stress job where if a mistake is made, someone can get hurt. I can make a mistake at work and it does have a large repercussion. He does and someone dies. These guys are human just like you and me and make mistakes. Still have yet to see someone be able to put their pants on both legs at a time. Some people here think they can. The video posted was grainy and I can't believe that you can infer that the perp was acting in a calm and collected manner. From what I saw, it was the end of what happened and not the beginning. People were in the way and the cops were moving around. Just remember this. Rodney King was high on drugs when he was beaten and RESISTING ARREST. We only saw the few minutes of video that the press wanted us to see. The website linked at the beginning of this thread is one of those crackpot 9/11 truther websites. Do you really think that they will give the whole story?
I am not a cop, but I lean toward giving the police the benefit of the doubt the majority of the time. There are a few bad apples out there and unfortunately, it is opinions such as at the beginning fo the board that has fostered a "fear" of police. Hopw many times do we have to see some dink talking back to the cops or not following the policeman orders. If they would have just listened in the first place. Does noone have respect for authority anymore?
Let me state for the Record that I'm not a truth movement member. lol however i am an American who is sick & tired of being lied too. and open minded enough to take in all the information and make choices on my own as to what i want to stand for i still stand for the public! the downfall
of our nation is right in our faces to deny that fact means your a sleep walker and law enforcement structure will fail as well bringing along the need for federal emergency mobilization in our country freedom not available in some areas prices subject to change with out notice
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(http://www.stevebozzone.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/cop.jpg)
Sad, but true.
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Them broad brushes very expensive?
Seems like alot of people here have them....
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I have a tough time myself understand it but that one 'theory' that is being thrown out as a possible defense.
As for Dick's 'intent' comment, it seems that the DA is claiming it was an intentional shooting and the guy is being charged with murder. I guess the DA didn't miss the class on 'intent'.
ack-ack
Maybe, maybe not Crack. DAs are elected officials and often bow to political pressure. Most of all in places like Oakland where a lot of offenders are also people you count on to vote for you. This guy tested the political waters for a few weeks and might have found them to hot to not bring charges.
After all he can put charges on anyone he wants, for the most part. The stupid taxpayer foots the bill. Even for a case he knows he cant win, in the end he can say, "I charged him and did all I could to bring the case in". He loses nothing and maybe keeps the votes.
I see I have to pretty much explain everything to Crack and Elfie, "what kinda man names himself Elfie"? My best guess is, and Ive seen all this before, is they will throw heavy charges against this guy and try and plea bargain it away to a lesser charge. After all your DAs do that all the time and the worst thing that can happen is the state will lose the case. Meanwhile its years down the line and the entire thing is off the front page and forgotten. Everytime we arrest anyone we are also "charging" them. By doing so we are simply saying we have probable cause the offender had intent. Nothing is proven until a court of law says so. That goes even for scumbags who would victimize you and your own in a heartbeat so why not for someone who risks their life serving and protecting? That question was for the thoughtful posters in this thread. Not for the sputtering,whineing, wheezing, muttering,babbling, morons who selfishly turned this tragedy into a selfish, flaming, borderline troll thread on an Internet gaming forum. Most of all Ack-Crack and Elfie, and were still waiting for information on all those incidents you've been alluding to Elf.
Personally I find the entire episode very sad and I feel for all involved. Most of all the victim and his family but also for the guy in uniform. I work a big city and we always have guns out during violent incidents and in progress calls. All the time! Frankly I'm surprised this kinda thing doesn't happen more. Ive personally witnessed bad shoots, as well as good ones. I wouldn't consider any of them trivial enough to be turned into a sweetheartbagfest on an Internet flight game forum.
To the few who have posted thoughtfully I thank you.
I'm done with this thread.
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Not for the sputtering,whineing, wheezing, muttering,babbling, morons who selfishly turned this tragedy into a selfish, flaming, borderline troll thread on an Internet gaming forum. Most of all Ack-Crack and Elfie, and were still waiting for information on all those incidents you've been alluding to Elf.
Please show me Dick where I "selfishly turned this tragedy into a selfish, flaming, borderline troll"? I take it reading comprehension isn't one of your strong suits.
There was a report of a fight on the BART train between a group of party goers. It is not clear whether or not Grant was part of either of the groups taking part in the fight. The BART police just yanked everyone from that train to try and figure out what was going on.
There is also speculation that the BART cop by accident pulled his service weapon instead of his Taser. Anyway, the cop should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and serve prison time if convicted.
ack-ack
That was my post you're referring to and is not even close to what you described but thanks anyway for proving what a total and complete idiot you are.
Have a nice day Dick.
ack-ack
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Please show me Dick where I "selfishly turned this tragedy into a selfish, flaming, borderline troll"? I take it reading comprehension isn't one of your strong suits.
That was my post you're referring to and is not even close to what you described but thanks anyway for proving what a total and complete idiot you are.
Have a nice day Dick.
ack-ack
wow! you fellas still hung up on each other? this issues changed wonder what will happen if i brought up the up and coming carbon taxes? or the money based micro chip that's already in mass production? Line up and roll them sleeves up the doctor will be right with you make sure the contract is completed
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what kinda man names himself Elfie
It's not the first time you have made a juvenile reference to my internet name. It's just another way that you try to put others down.
and were still waiting for information on all those incidents you've been alluding to Elf.
I gave two incidents that were discussed on this board besides this one. There have been others as well. If you wish to see more, I suggest using the search function that is available on this board. Or you can find plenty on the internet I'm sure.
I noticed you did not deny the professional courtesy that is extended from one LEO to another. That professional courtesy only puts officers above the law and no one should be above the law, ever.
Like it or not, as a public servant you and all your fellow LEO's are subject to public scrutiny. When one of you screws up or even appears to screw up, there WILL be public outcry, and rightfully so. Even though you like to talk down to us mere civilians, if it wasn't for us paying taxes you wouldn't have the job you have. The public servants in this country act as if they have no need to answer to the civilians and that is wrong. You work for us.
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,486108,00.html
OAKLAND, Calif. — The transit officer who shot and killed an unarmed man may have mistakenly pulled his service pistol instead of a stun gun, according to documents filed by his lawyer Friday.
Attorney Michael Rains made the argument in urging a judge to grant bail for 27-year-old Johannes Mehserle. Alameda County Superior Court Judge Morris Jacobson later set bail at $3 million.
Mehserle has pleaded not guilty to one count of murder in the death of 22-year-old Oscar Grant, who was killed early New Year's Day. Cell phone videos of the incident, widely viewed on the Internet, showed the officer standing over Grant as he was lying facedown on a train platform and firing one shot into the man's back.
Grant died of the gunshot wound to his torso.
In a court filing Friday, Rains said witness accounts indicate that Mehserle meant to draw his Taser, but instead pulled his pistol. The lawyer blamed inexperience by the young officer, who passed his Taser user certification test on Dec. 3.
"The bulk of the discovery, including witness and officer statements, seem to indicate that this young officer, who carried a taser for only a few shifts prior to this event, may have mistakenly deployed his service pistol rather than his taser, thus negating any criminal intent," Rains wrote.
The court documents contain statements and reports from several officers who were on the platform with Mehserle at the time of the shooting.
The officers — who had just pulled several men, including Grant, from a Bay Area Rapid Transit train after reports of fighting — described the scene as chaotic and confusing.
According to a statement from Officer Tony Pirone, Mehserle told Grant to stop resisting and put his hands behind his back. Then, according to Pirone's statement, Mehserle said: "I'm going to taze him, I'm going to taze him. I can't get his arms. He won't give me his arms. His hands are going for his waistband."
Pirone said he didn't know if Grant was armed, but said Mehserle told him he had believed Grant may have had a weapon.
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i forget what model they carry, but i had a friend that used to be a cherry hill cop......the handguns they carried, and no safetys according to him.
I think you missed what he meant. The gun doesn't fire itself.
Bottom line is this, the Cop should be prosecuted. They drill this into you all through CJ classes on up (I only needed the Academy until my marriage happened, thent he wife wouldn't allow it). "Don't pull your service weapon unless you intend to use it."
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The cop is gonna have to live with his mistake for the rest of his life and his career is probably over. If it was a mistake by him, that is punishment enough.
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The cop is gonna have to live with his mistake for the rest of his life and his career is probably over. If it was a mistake by him, that is punishment enough.
We should just give him a hug and send him home to mamma.
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"IF" it was a mistake it is tragic at best. The possibility of that mistake happening could have easily been avoided by the victim.
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The cop is gonna have to live with his mistake for the rest of his life and his career is probably over. If it was a mistake by him, that is punishment enough.
Hope no one kills you by "accident" for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. We'd have to just say oh well, it was a mistake, mistakes happen, huh?
:rolleyes:
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The cop is gonna have to live with his mistake for the rest of his life and his career is probably over. If it was a mistake by him, that is punishment enough.
If he "made a mistake"? He needs to pay consequences for his action. Prison.
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The cop is gonna have to live with his mistake for the rest of his life and his career is probably over. If it was a mistake by him, that is punishment enough.
If that was a civilian that made that mistake law enforcement and DA's wouldn't let it be punishment enough. That civilian would still have to go to trial and prison, this officer should not be exempted simply because he is an officer.
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"IF" it was a mistake it is tragic at best. The possibility of that mistake happening could have easily been avoided by the victim.
Thats the whole point. The group wasn't giving the officers much co-operation and it got out of hand.
Then there are those that want to put ALL blame on the officer and forget that they are human as well and can make mistakes.
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If that was a civilian that made that mistake law enforcement and DA's wouldn't let it be punishment enough. That civilian would still have to go to trial and prison, this officer should not be exempted simply because he is an officer.
Hello, he is going to trial. Did you even read the article?
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Thats the whole point. The group wasn't giving the officers much co-operation and it got out of hand.
Then there are those that want to put ALL blame on the officer and forget that they are human as well and can make mistakes.
I'm sorry but Manslaughter isn't something to be happy about. I know MANY cops and this has been discussed and not one thinks "he should walk." They all say "given the evidence so far, have fun in prison."
This was something more than a "mistake", it also seems he chose the wrong career to begin with. If you confuse the location of your stun gun, with a Glock on your duty belt, you have some issues to begin with.
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Hello, he is going to trial. Did you even read the article?
But you said earlier that if it was a "mistake" that they should just let him go. Make up your mind.
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I'm sorry but Manslaughter isn't something to be happy about. I know MANY cops and this has been discussed and not one thinks "he should walk." They all say "given the evidence so far, have fun in prison."
This was something more than a "mistake", it also seems he chose the wrong career to begin with. If you confuse the location of your stun gun, with a Glock on your duty belt, you have some issues to begin with.
I don't think ANYONE is happy about all this. It just strikes me as odd how some in here put all the blame on the cop when the victim and his buddies had a part in it as well.
I have a brother who is a Fed and he says the court will decide his fate and that many people don't have a clue about how tough law enforcement is.
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Being a "Fed" doesn't make you "smarter", we're still getting baclash from this mentality.
Of course, Due Process will be administered, by saying he "made a mistake" in the LEO field is ludicrous.
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Being a "Fed" doesn't make you "smarter", we're still getting baclash from this mentality.
Don't get the officers mixed up with thier bosses in D.C. There is a difference.
But then I guess you think they are all bad people just as the local police is.
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Don't get the officers mixed up with thier bosses in D.C. There is a difference.
But then I guess you think they are all bad people just as the local police is.
I suggest you're the type to not read prior posts int his thread by me. I nothing but respect for LEO's. :aok
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Yes!
Burn every house and car you see!
Punch babies laying in their cribs!
Laugh at the Special Olympics!
ANARCHY!!
VIVA LA REVOLUCION!
If baby punching is your thing, then this one's for you. :rofl
http://www.gamegecko.com/babydestruction.php
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If baby punching is your thing, then this one's for you. :rofl
http://www.gamegecko.com/babydestruction.php
Punching a baby is ok, but baby seals put up more of a fight, bigger challenge.
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I suggest you're the type to not read prior posts int his thread by me. I nothing but respect for LEO's. :aok
So its federal officers you don't have any respect for?
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Oscar Grant got intoxicated, chose to go to the tube, got into a half riot situation, got possibly into a fight or was hanging around one, resisted arrest and got shot in process.
If he stayed clean and/or took a taxi he'd still be alive. While the cops were wrong he's no saint and has part to blame.
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I don't think ANYONE is happy about all this. It just strikes me as odd how some in here put all the blame on the cop when the victim and his buddies had a part in it as well.
I have a brother who is a Fed and he says the court will decide his fate and that many people don't have a clue about how tough law enforcement is.
Oh right....your brother is a Fed, so that makes you a resident expert eh? We hear all the time how us mere civilians don't have a clue how tough law enforcement is.
From the video's we've seen, no one was resisting these BART cops.
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This is why we need an armed citizenry. When Grant was murdered the bystanders should have dropped their cellphones, whipped out their guns and blasted those pigs. I hate this police state.
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Oh right....your brother is a Fed, so that makes you a resident expert eh? We hear all the time how us mere civilians don't have a clue how tough law enforcement is.
From the video's we've seen, no one was resisting these BART cops.
Ah yes, everyone is innocent until proven guilty, UNLESS your a cop.
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Ah yes, everyone is innocent until proven guilty, UNLESS your a cop.
Or in the case of Oscar Grant, innocent until executed by a cop eh?
Or unless you are these people:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/23/AR2009012302935.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2009013002471&s_pos=
The police still won't admit that couple were innocent.
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These things never happen where I live. Half of the population of the US, and I can't remember a single incident of a person being tased or shot by a policeman in the last 18 years.
Other than to ask directions, the only time I've had an incident involving the police was when I was young and reckless -- about 15 years ago. A friend and I got drunk one night at a place near his house and I missed the last train home. My friend was so drunk, he could barely stand and was completely incoherent, plus, he had no cash left. I had just enough cash for a taxi ride home, but he didn't.
Two policemen came by and escorted us to the koban about 50 yards away. They just wanted to make sure he wasn't hurt, then after hearing our pathetic story, they gave him the money for a taxi to go home. They asked him to stop by the next day to pay it back. They called taxis for us and were laughing at our sorry state of drunkenness. I guess I could expect to be tased or shot, then arrested and thrown in jail in the US now. And some of you would say it was my fault. ;)
I really like the police here. The police stationed in an area come by the house every year, just to find out about you. Not to be nosy, just to know if you have kids, grandparents or other relatives or pets who might need help sometime. If there is a fire, they have the information of how many people might be in the house; maybe someone is disabled, blind, mute or deaf.
If you want, they'll look around and advise you about the overall security of your place. Burglaries are very rare, but not unheard of, and they'll offer up some suggestions. It's kind of like living in one giant Mayberry. And that isn't all bad, is it? :D
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Or in the case of Oscar Grant, innocent until executed by a cop eh?
Its been said SEVERAL times in this thread already, Grant would still be alive and well today if he had co-operated with the cops. Instead he escalated the situation which was already close to getting out of hand.
Was it intentional? No, I believe not. However there are some who believe it was [such as yourself].
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WWII would never have happened if everybody had just cooperated with Hitler. I guess we brought it on ourselves!
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Its been said SEVERAL times in this thread already, Grant would still be alive and well today if he had co-operated with the cops. Instead he escalated the situation which was already close to getting out of hand.
Was it intentional? No, I believe not. However there are some who believe it was [such as yourself].
Oscar Grant was not resisting the BART cops in any of the videos I have seen. Start watching some videos yourself instead of placing all the blame on the victim. How did he escalate the situation while laying on his stomach? What proof can you cite that he was in fact escalating the situation?
Did Oscar Grant get drunk and fight on the train? Maybe so, but that doesn't mean he deserved to be shot in the back while laying face down on the ground.
I am not saying it was or wasn't intentional because intent doesn't matter when a human life has been taken. Public servants should be just as afraid of the lawful consequences of their actions as Joe Citizen is.
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Oscar Grant was not resisting the BART cops in any of the videos I have seen. Start watching some videos yourself instead of placing all the blame on the victim. How did he escalate the situation while laying on his stomach? What proof can you cite that he was in fact escalating the situation?
Did Oscar Grant get drunk and fight on the train? Maybe so, but that doesn't mean he deserved to be shot in the back while laying face down on the ground.
I am not saying it was or wasn't intentional because intent doesn't matter when a human life has been taken. Public servants should be just as afraid of the lawful consequences of their actions as Joe Citizen is.
QFT
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Oscar Grant was not resisting the BART cops in any of the videos I have seen. Start watching some videos yourself instead of placing all the blame on the victim.
Then you need to go watch the videos that are out there. He was resisting the cops when they were trying to cuff him. THAT would justify an officer to use a taser if they have no idea if they may be armed [he wasn't frisked yet].
IF he had simply allowed them to cuff him he would still be alive today, but instead he resisted.
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Prison.
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I don't agree with you, Tango.
I think he'd be alive if someone hadn't shot him in the back while lying face down and being punched in the face for committing the crime of what... sitting on the ground?
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Then you need to go watch the videos that are out there. He was resisting the cops when they were trying to cuff him. THAT would justify an officer to use a taser if they have no idea if they may be armed [he wasn't frisked yet].
IF he had simply allowed them to cuff him he would still be alive today, but instead he resisted.
I've watched every video I could find and not one that I've seen clearly shows him resisting, in fact, in all the ones I've seen he appears to be cooperating. (I have posted a link to a video in this thread) Maybe you could back up your claims with videos of your own.
Again, you put all the blame on the victim. Who's responsibility was it to ensure that a tazer was pulled instead of a pistol? (If subduing Grant was the objective.) Who cocked the pistol? Who released the safety on the pistol? Why were these individuals NOT frisked for weapons immediately?
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I don't agree with you, Tango.
I think he'd be alive if someone hadn't shot him in the back while lying face down and being punched in the face for committing the crime of what... sitting on the ground?
Exactly.
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The video shows that boy is holding his hands up palms out . For body language what does that say ? The officer pulls the weapon braces both arms , for body language what does that say ? As for safeties , if the weapon is known for malfunction why is it being issued ? When I was in the Army we were trained in the use of force for guard duties , we were trained to use only the amount of force necessary to stop an individual from entering a site or stealing USA property . Surely police are not trained to use the maximum amount of force in that situation . Also I don't see how anyone can say that the boy was fighting . What I saw was a police officer not happy with the speed that his orders were being carried out . Question an officer about anything , refuse to answer some question they have no right asking . See what happens . Question why they take too long responding to a burglary call in a small town see what happens . If you think that you must do something to warrant bad behavior from a cop ask anodizer about that .
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVsncZ7K584
Sure is funny how people see what they think is happening instead of what is.
Video shows him resisting while they are trying to put cuffs on him.
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And that justifies shooting him? That is messed up.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVsncZ7K584
Sure is funny how people see what they think is happening instead of what is.
Video shows him resisting while they are trying to put cuffs on him.
Rodney King did worse before being cuffed (exceeded 100+ on a police chase, was drunk, resisted arrest and more) and didn't lose his life over a "mistake".
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And that justifies shooting him? That is messed up.
With a tazer, yes.
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Pirone was "surprised" by Mehserle's act of drawing and firing his weapon, Creighton said.
The prosecutor said Mehserle told Pirone several minutes later, "Tony, I thought he was going for a gun."
But Creighton said Mehserle never said anything to Pirone about a gun during his attempt to gain control of Grant's hands and Grant was unarmed when he was shot.
"Mehserle's suggestion that he may have discharged his firearm in the mistaken belief that he was deploying his Taser is disingenuous in light of his claim that he thought the victim (Grant) was 'going for a gun,'" Creighton said.
The prosecutor said that if Mehserle thought that he and other officers were exposed to deadly force by Grant he "would not and should not have deployed a Taser" because he should have used a gun instead.
Creighton added that the position of Mehserle's Taser "in relation to his duty weapon, combined with the different 'feel' and color of the two weapons makes it highly unlikely that he would have mistaken one for the other."
At the bail hearing, Jacobson agreed with Creighton, saying he believes Mehserle's statements about what happened "seem to be inconsistent."
These are the statements of fellow police officers and the D.A. He said "I thought he was going for a gun" . So the tazer angle is just BS .
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So you are saying because he was resisting is the reason it escalated to the point of the officer reacting?
Guess that means he would still be alive if he had done what the cops said and not resisted.
Thats the point I've been making but everyone wants to lynch the cop and put ALL the blame on him. The cop is responsible for his actions but none want to make Grant responsible for his.
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Sorry. Police officers are trained and paid and expected to follow the rules of escalation.
Are you a cop Tango?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVsncZ7K584
Sure is funny how people see what they think is happening instead of what is.
Video shows him resisting while they are trying to put cuffs on him.
I hadn't seen this video, I'm not sure how I missed this one at youtube.
He wasn't as cooperative as I had originally thought but that still doesn't excuse the use of deadly force. It was 3 cops on one man and they had him face down on the ground. Shooting him in the back in that situation is nothing more than an execution. How you can still try to defend that is incomprehensible, especially in light of the fact that the shooter can't seem to get his story straight.
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Sorry. Police officers are trained and paid and expected to follow the rules of escalation.
Are you a cop Tango?
His brother is a Fed, he's told us that at least 3 times in this thread alone.....does that count? :P
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So you are saying because he was resisting is the reason it escalated to the point of the officer reacting?
Guess that means he would still be alive if he had done what the cops said and not resisted.
Thats the point I've been making but everyone wants to lynch the cop and put ALL the blame on him. The cop is responsible for his actions but none want to make Grant responsible for his.
The police have training to deal with situations like this and should be able to deal with them without resorting to deadly force. Due to their training the police should be held to the highest standards possible in situations such as this.
I would hazard a guess that similar scenarios to this one are played out many times each day across this country and no one else gets killed.
As someone else pointed out, look at all the crap Rodney King pulled and he didn't end up dead. (He did get the crap kicked out of him though.) Grant didn't use or even attempt to use deadly force, the police officer did and he did so without just cause. There can be no just cause in using deadly force when you have a suspect face down on the ground.
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How you can still try to defend that is incomprehensible,
I never said I was defending the cop. Its the fact that everyone wants to put ALL the blame on the cop and none on Grant. IF he had done what the cops told him to do and not resisted then it would have had a differnet ending. Instead it set everything in motion for it to escalate to that ending.
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Perhaps if Grant we're still around we'd agree that he ought to learn not to resist arrest. Unfortunately, that isn't an option is it?
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I never said I was defending the cop. Its the fact that everyone wants to put ALL the blame on the cop and none on Grant. IF he had done what the cops told him to do and not resisted then it would have had a differnet ending. Instead it set everything in motion for it to escalate to that ending.
Only the cop is responsible for escalating the events to deadly force. He did have a tazer and could have used that option instead. He either consciously, or subconsciously chose to use deadly force instead of just enough force to subdue Mr. Grant.
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I never said I was defending the cop. Its the fact that everyone wants to put ALL the blame on the cop and none on Grant. IF he had done what the cops told him to do and not resisted then it would have had a differnet ending. Instead it set everything in motion for it to escalate to that ending.
I suggest you read: "Into the Kill Zone: A Cop's Eye View of Deadly Force" by David Klinger. I read this just as I was beginning to start on Academy. My wife didn't want to become a cop after we married.
Read the book.
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Only the cop is responsible for escalating the events to deadly force. He did have a tazer and could have used that option instead. He either consciously, or subconsciously chose to use deadly force instead of just enough force to subdue Mr. Grant.
And still you ignore the fact that the cop would not have done so if Grant had not resisted and allowed them to cuff him. He would be alive and the cop wouldn't be on trial.
Instead you guys place all the blame on the actions of one but ignore the actions of the other.
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And still you ignore the fact that the cop would not have done so if Grant had not resisted and allowed them to cuff him. He would be alive and the cop wouldn't be on trial.
Instead you guys place all the blame on the actions of one but ignore the actions of the other.
Again, you ignore the fact that the police are trained to deal with these types of situations properly. This officer did not deal with this situation in the proper way. He used deadly force when it was not needed and in fact was more along the lines of an execution since the suspect was laying face down and was shot in the back. It wasn't like he was going to get away with all those cops there.
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And again you ignore the fact that if he did what was asked of him the cop would never had made that mistake in the first place.
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And again you ignore the fact that if he did what was asked of him the cop would never had made that mistake in the first place.
If the defense uses this type of statement, they're screwed.
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If the defense uses this type of statement, they're screwed.
So your saying that only the police should be held in acount of thier actions but not citizens?
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"Dispersal of blame" is hardly at stake here. He fluffied up, regardless of "resisting arrest", now he has to face the consequences.
You seem to forget I respect all LEO's, but this is a profession where "mistakes" cannot be made. Especially "Use of Force".
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Yet I find it funny that you place ALL the blame on the outcome of that incident on the cop and say Grant was totally innocent in his actions.
I guess you are one of those that say the 4 cops who shot Diallo are guilty of murder as well.
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You're whole stance in this thread is based on "assumptions" of what we "feel". You're way off base on this and I pray to God that you are NOT an LEO.
It doesn't MATTER what they did at this point, he's caught in a possible lie. If you confuse a stun gun with a duty weapon, WTSHTF, you are in the wrong profession. END OF STORY.
I'm done with this one, it's "excessive force" backed by "lies and mistakes". He'll go to prison and rightly so.
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Edit:To remove reply-better off staying out
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And again you ignore the fact that if he did what was asked of him the cop would never had made that mistake in the first place.
It's NOT Oscar Grant's fault the cop made a mistake.....if it was in fact a mistake.
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"Dispersal of blame" is hardly at stake here. He fluffied up, regardless of "resisting arrest", now he has to face the consequences.
You seem to forget I respect all LEO's, but this is a profession where "mistakes" cannot be made. Especially "Use of Deadly Force".
After I fixed it, agreed.
Mistakes cannot be made in regards to the use of deadly force. Apologies can be given for arresting an innocent person, or for tazing an innocent person etc, etc. (Not that the police apologize anyway.) It is impossible to apologize to a dead person. Dead cannot be undone.
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Yet I find it funny that you place ALL the blame on the outcome of that incident on the cop and say Grant was totally innocent in his actions.
I guess you are one of those that say the 4 cops who shot Diallo are guilty of murder as well.
I don't see anyone saying Oscar Grant was totally innocent of his actions. What we are saying is Oscar Grants actions did not warrant the use of deadly force. Regardless of whether or not the officers use of deadly force was intentional or accidental, the fact remains that Oscar Grant was shot in the back while laying face down on the ground. That is completely unacceptable.
In the early morning of February 4 Diallo was standing near his building after returning from a meal. Police officers Edward McMellon, Sean Carroll, Kenneth Boss and Richard Murphy passed by in a Ford Taurus when they thought Diallo matched the description of a (since-captured) serial rapist and approached him. The officers were in plain clothes. The officers claimed that they loudly identified themselves as NYPD officers and that Diallo ran up the outside steps toward his apartment house doorway at their approach, ignoring their orders to stop and "show his hands." As the suspect reached into his jacket, Carroll believed Diallo was drawing a firearm and yelled "Gun!" to alert his colleagues. The officers opened fire on Diallo and during the burst McMellon fell down the steps, appearing to be shot. The four officers fired forty-one shots, hitting Diallo nineteen times. Investigation found no weapons on Diallo's body; the item he had pulled out of his jacket was not a gun, but a wallet.
I'd say that was murder. How do you mistake a wallet for a gun and then shoot that person 19 times over a wallet?
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Quote
In the early morning of February 4 Diallo was standing near his building after returning from a meal. Police officers Edward McMellon, Sean Carroll, Kenneth Boss and Richard Murphy passed by in a Ford Taurus when they thought Diallo matched the description of a (since-captured) serial rapist and approached him. The officers were in plain clothes. The officers claimed that they loudly identified themselves as NYPD officers and that Diallo ran up the outside steps toward his apartment house doorway at their approach, ignoring their orders to stop and "show his hands." As the suspect reached into his jacket, Carroll believed Diallo was drawing a firearm and yelled "Gun!" to alert his colleagues. The officers opened fire on Diallo and during the burst McMellon fell down the steps, appearing to be shot. The four officers fired forty-one shots, hitting Diallo nineteen times. Investigation found no weapons on Diallo's body; the item he had pulled out of his jacket was not a gun, but a wallet.
I'd say that was murder. How do you mistake a wallet for a gun and then shoot that person 19 times over a wallet?
Early morning? Maybe it was dark? Especially in an alley? What would you think if you told someone to stop after identifying yourself and the person turns and reaches in his coat after you told him to put his hands in the air?
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Early morning? Maybe it was dark? Especially in an alley? What would you think if you told someone to stop after identifying yourself and the person turns and reaches in his coat after you told him to put his hands in the air?
Sounds completely reasonable... :rolleyes: [/sarcasm]
How about all these people. I'm sure you have plenty of ways to explain their horrible and needless deaths:
http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2003/08/17/drugWarVictims.html
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There is no justifying shooting this person.
Folks are saying just saying what put him in this predicament to start with.
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Folks are saying just saying what put him in this predicament to start with.
Exactly.
People need to realize that thier actions can result in negative outcomes as well. If Grant had obeyed the cops from the beginning then none of this would have occured. As it is now, he is dead and the cop is on trial.
Should the officer have used a tazer? Yes. Of course the question to ask is why did he pull the gun. Did he mistakenly pull the gun while grabbing for the tazer? Thats his defense, but there are some in here who say hes lieing. If so then why did he pull the gun and shot in front of so many witnesses? Did he feel like Grant was resisting so he could go for a weapon? Thats possible as well.
Bottom line is that Grant should have done cooperated with the cops in the beginning instead of resisting. Resisting a cop is not a right. It just makes things tougher on the officers and as in this situation, can lead to one life being taken and another ruined with the possibilty of prison.
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Resisting a cop is not a right.
Wrong! You have every right to resist an unlawful arrest or seizure. Read your constitution.
I'm done with this thread. You aren't convincing anyone that Grant got what he deserved Tango.
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Wrong! You have every right to resist an unlawful arrest or seizure. Read your constitution.
Yep then you get a friendly pat on your back directly from the founding fathers quickly after that. :salute
Like ramming under a truck that speeds through a stopsign.. 'But I was right' when the question pops at St. Pete's gate.
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Exactly.
People need to realize that thier actions can result in negative outcomes as well. If Grant had obeyed the cops from the beginning then none of this would have occured. As it is now, he is dead and the cop is on trial.
Should the officer have used a tazer? Yes. Of course the question to ask is why did he pull the gun. Did he mistakenly pull the gun while grabbing for the tazer? Thats his defense, but there are some in here who say hes lieing. If so then why did he pull the gun and shot in front of so many witnesses? Did he feel like Grant was resisting so he could go for a weapon? Thats possible as well.
Bottom line is that Grant should have done cooperated with the cops in the beginning instead of resisting. Resisting a cop is not a right. It just makes things tougher on the officers and as in this situation, can lead to one life being taken and another ruined with the possibilty of prison.
I hope you like living in your Police state, that is as long as you are one of the Police.
No matter if the guy was "resisting" (dont breathe until I tell ya too!) or not, the man was killed for NO GOOD reason.
Too bad I am old enough to remember when Police were the guys who lived down the street that did an honest blue collar job, and not the Heros that take down "perps" and wear ninja outfits.
Anyone recall an O Club where the topics were about Airplanes, simulated airplanes and how to fly em?
taa
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Wrong! You have every right to resist an unlawful arrest or seizure. Read your constitution.
I'm done with this thread. You aren't convincing anyone that Grant got what he deserved Tango.
That just shows stupidity to resist anyone that is packing a gun, if it is a cop or a thug. Its far better to cooperate with a cop until you get your lawyer if you are in the right. The Constitution won't stop a bullet.
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Exactly.
People need to realize that thier actions can result in negative outcomes as well. If Grant had obeyed the cops from the beginning then none of this would have occured. As it is now, he is dead and the cop is on trial.
Should the officer have used a tazer? Yes. Of course the question to ask is why did he pull the gun. Did he mistakenly pull the gun while grabbing for the tazer? Thats his defense, but there are some in here who say hes lieing. If so then why did he pull the gun and shot in front of so many witnesses? Did he feel like Grant was resisting so he could go for a weapon? Thats possible as well.
Bottom line is that Grant should have done cooperated with the cops in the beginning instead of resisting. Resisting a cop is not a right. It just makes things tougher on the officers and as in this situation, can lead to one life being taken and another ruined with the possibilty of prison.
Nothing you have said justifies this officer pulling his gun and killing Oscar Grant. Nothing. Resisting does not invoke the death penalty like it did with Oscar Grant. His resisting should have never lead to his life being extinguished. If Oscar Grant had been shooting at the police, or trying to harm them with some kind of weapon then your argument would have some validity, but he wasn't so your argument cannot stand on it's own. There are other, non lethal ways to subdue prisoners. This cop was wrong and Grant's resisting does not make this officers actions excusable.
The only reason you are defending this officer so vehemently (imo) is because your brother is a Fed, something you have felt the need to tell us at least 3 times in this thread alone.
As far as resisting police being wrong? In some cases we have every right to resist them regardless of whether or not they have guns.
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20061206/NEWS/612060472&SearchID=73311423016908
In this case, a judge ruled against two sheriffs deputies.
Judge says citizen had every right to resist:
Homeowner freed after beating up cops
by Todd Ruger, Sarasota [FL] Herald-Tribune March 14, 2007
SARASOTA -- John Coffin won't spend any more time in jail for beating up two sheriff's deputies inside his house, striking one in the head with a Taser gun he took from the other.
Circuit Judge Rick De Furia said at Coffin's trial Tuesday that he doesn't condone the violence against the deputies.
But Coffin, 56, had a right to defend his family and property because the deputies had no right to be in Coffin's house in the first place, De Furia said.
"Law enforcement was responsible for the chain of events here," De Furia said. "I think in situations like this, officers become so frustrated they go beyond what the law allows them to do."
The fight started when Coffin heard his wife screaming in pain, went into the garage and saw two deputies arresting her on the floor.
The deputies were trying to serve
Coffin with civil papers that had been given five days earlier. They had entered the garage even though they did not have a search warrant or arrest warrant.
And they arrested Coffin's wife, Cynthia, 50, on obstruction charges even though she had no obligation to follow their orders to bring her husband outside.
"The most critical is the fact the officers broke the law by stopping the garage door from going down," and then entering the garage, De Furia said.
A jury was picked for the trial Monday. But the judge granted a motion by Coffin's attorneys, Derek Byrd and Brett McIntosh, and acquitted John Coffin on five of six felony charges Tuesday morning.
Coffin pleaded no contest to the remaining charge of taking a Taser gun from one of the deputies during the fight.
Before handing down the sentence, De Furia asked how long Coffin spent in jail after his initial arrest.
"You spent eight days in the Sarasota County jail," De Furia said. "That's your sentence. No probation."
Relatives applauded, and Coffin walked out of the courthouse with only a $358 bill for court costs. The sentence surprised even defense attorneys, who had suggested De Furia sentence Coffin to probation.
Prosecutors had asked for more than a year of prison time because of "the totality of the case" and the injuries to deputies James Lutz and Stacy Ferris, whose name is now Stacy Brandau.
The two deputies testified about their injuries Tuesday -- three blows to the head with the butt of the Taser gun knocked Lutz unconscious.
"I just ask that he doesn't get away with this," Brandau told the judge.
Assistant State Attorney Jeff Young told the judge the case "could have been over in five seconds" if the Coffins "had simply come out and cooperated."
"That is a man who took it upon himself to beat up two police officers," Young said.
De Furia said that while he believed the deputies' mistakes were not intentional, the Coffins had every right to lock doors, try to close their garage door and not cooperate.
"What took place in the house was unfortunate," De Furia said, "but Mr. Coffin ... had a right to resist."
I say in this case, the good guys won.
*edit* From another link on this same case, apparently the home owner tazed both deputies at one point. Something they both deserved imo.
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Where have I said he was justified to pull his gun and shoot him? He was justified to pull his tazer.
All I have said was that if Grant had done what he was told to do the cop would never have needed to pull either the gun OR a tazer. IF he had done that then he wouldn't be dead and the cop wouldn't be on trial.
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Where have I said he was justified to pull his gun and shoot him? He was justified to pull his tazer.
All I have said was that if Grant had done what he was told to do the cop would never have needed to pull either the gun OR a tazer. IF he had done that then he wouldn't be dead and the cop wouldn't be on trial.
While that part in bold is true, it is also true that police are trained to subdue people with non lethal means. Police are trained to defuse situations such as this, and likely do so hundreds of times each day across this country without resorting to deadly force. The use of deadly force was not justified in this case. You are putting the blame for the use of deadly force on Oscar Grant, Oscar Grant is only responsible for his own actions, not the actions of the officer. The officer had no justification for deadly force.
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Wrong! You have every right to resist an unlawful arrest or seizure. Read your constitution.
Texas Penal Code -
38.03. RESISTING ARREST, SEARCH, OR
TRANSPORTATION. (a) A person commits an offense if he
intentionally prevents or obstructs a person he knows is a peace
officer or a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his
direction from effecting an arrest, search, or transportation of
the actor or another by using force against the peace officer or
another.
(b) It is no defense to prosecution under this section that
the arrest or search was unlawful.
(c) Except as provided in Subsection (d), an offense under
this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(d) An offense under this section is a felony of the third
degree if the actor uses a deadly weapon to resist the arrest or
search.
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While that part in bold is true, it is also true that police are trained to subdue people with non lethal means. Police are trained to defuse situations such as this, and likely do so hundreds of times each day across this country without resorting to deadly force. The use of deadly force was not justified in this case. You are putting the blame for the use of deadly force on Oscar Grant, Oscar Grant is only responsible for his own actions, not the actions of the officer. The officer had no justification for deadly force.
When have I said the cop was justified in using deadly force. You keep making it sound like I support what the cop did. The cop is on trial and could go to prison for a long time for his actions or go free. Thats for a court to decide.
What I do know is that the situation could have been avoided if Grant had cooperated with law enforcement officers at the time instead of resisting. He would still be alive today and been able to have his lawyer suing the cops for wrongful arrest.
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What I do know is that the situation could have been avoided if Grant had cooperated with law enforcement officers at the time instead of resisting. He would still be alive today and been able to have his lawyer suing the cops for wrongful arrest.
It's the JOB of police to bring in suspects regardless of the suspects actions. They are trained to do this, this cop failed and so do you.
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It's the JOB of police to bring in suspects regardless of the suspects actions. They are trained to do this, this cop failed and so do you.
So if the perp is unloading an assault rifle on the cops, it is ther JOB to bring him in without harm to him? Are you nuts?
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So if the perp is unloading an assault rifle on the cops, it is ther JOB to bring him in without harm to him? Are you nuts?
Wow. That's quite a different situation than the one we're talking about, isn't it?
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Wow. That's quite a different situation than the one we're talking about, isn't it?
I responded to what Elfie said.
It's the JOB of police to bring in suspects regardless of the suspects actions.
I happen to agree with what many have said earlier. This guy for whatever reason put himself in this situation. Unfortunately, things progressed in a manner that a mistake was made by a police officer. If Grant had not been involved in whatever happened, he would not have been in the position to have something dreadful happen. Too many times, the Monday morning quaterbacking of a policeman's job ends up with destroying more than just one life. Sadly the mistake made may destroy the life of someone that was trying to do his job. Trying to judge him on what he thought and how he felt at the time in my mind is wrong. Without being there and in his shoes, how can we judge him? Remember, that the videos only show a portion of what happened. They do not show all of what transpired and going on those alone, is ridiculous. I for one am done with this thread.
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It's the JOB of police to bring in suspects regardless of the suspects actions. They are trained to do this, this cop failed and so do you.
True, but he paid the highest price for resisting when he could still be alive by simply doing what the cops asked him to do and allowed them to cuff him.
The cop was wrong in what he did and a jury will decide his fate, but so was Grant for resisting and his actions caused him to get killed needlessly. Simply do as the cop asks and get your lawyer to do the fighting AFTERWARDS.
Perhaps you don't understand that but there are those that do.
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I think we can all agree that the police need to use a measured response to each threat they encounter.
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It's called the Use of Force Continuum
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True, but he paid the highest price for resisting when he could still be alive by simply doing what the cops asked him to do and allowed them to cuff him.
The cop was wrong in what he did and a jury will decide his fate, but so was Grant for resisting and his actions caused him to get killed needlessly. Simply do as the cop asks and get your lawyer to do the fighting AFTERWARDS.
Perhaps you don't understand that but there are those that do.
And so his punishment would have probably either been community service, a fine, or a few months in prison if he couldn't afford a good lawyer. With a decent one the charges would have been dropped.
Instead he's dead and you want to blame him. I thought I was done with this thread but people trying to justify the policeman killing him is making me sick.
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It makes me sick when people don't try to comprehend what they read.
When have I or anyone else in this thread said anything about the cop being justified in shooting Grant? The cop screwed up and it cost Grant his life. However Grant was responsible for his actions leading up to the moment BEFORE the cop pulled the gun. As has been said over and over again, IF he had simply done what he was told by the officers there and allowed them to cuff him, the cop would never have made that fatal mistake.
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However Grant was responsible for his actions leading up to the moment BEFORE the cop pulled the gun.
See, this is why you are pissing everyone off about it. You continue to lay the blame on Grant. You are wrong, just admit it and we'll all move on.
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Everyone should be responsible for their actions..... if grant is not then neither is the officer. The whole idea is at what point were the police required there in the first place. What happened to require them to get out of their cars and show up.
The Cop made a mistake and should be punished from what I saw. But I did not get the whole story.
As for tazers..... I do not like the idea of law enforcement carrying tazers. Now the bleeding heart perps and their families cry foul when one has a heart attack or other ailment from tazing.
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Everyone should be responsible for their actions..... if grant is not then neither is the officer.
Exactly.
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Everyone should be responsible for their actions..... if grant is not then neither is the officer. The whole idea is at what point were the police required there in the first place. What happened to require them to get out of their cars and show up.
The Cop made a mistake and should be punished from what I saw. But I did not get the whole story.
As for tazers..... I do not like the idea of law enforcement carrying tazers. Now the bleeding heart perps and their families cry foul when one has a heart attack or other ailment from tazing.
It'd be great for Grant to face resisting arrest charges. Perhaps you'll serve the papers...oh wait.
At first I thought this was a tragedy. After reading of the officer having trouble sticking to one story...well, the guy needs to spend a good long while in jail.
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Please stop putting words into people's mouth.
Nobody is contesting the fact that the cop shot the guy and that it was wrong. What is being said is that if Grant had been more responsible for HIS actions up to that tragic moment that the cop pulled the gun, none of it would have happened. He would still be alive and the cop wouldn't be on trial for what he did.
Try to comprehend what is written.
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Most of us can comprehend what we read. The problem here is that you don't seem to comprehend that what you continue to write is illogical.
You cannot prove that he would still be alive no matter what he did or didn't do.
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So you are saying the cop would have shot him if he had not resisted when they tried to cuff him? I doubt that since he would have had no reason to reach for a gun OR a tazer.
Grant would still be alive and the cop wouldn't be going to trial.
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You can doubt it all you want. Now, prove it.
He could have just lost it and shot him for something he said, considering the punches to the head while he was lying face down. Prove that you know the reason that the policeman shot him.
You can't do it.
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The video shows him resisting when they were trying to cuff him. He didn't deserve being shot and the cop will stand trial for it.
Just admit you have a problem with cops.
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Just admit you have a problem with cops.
If they will apparently just randomly or perhaps "accidentally" shoot someone, I don't see why we shouldn't.
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If they will apparently just randomly or perhaps "accidentally" shoot someone, I don't see why we shouldn't.
Yeah, get back with me on how well that goes for ya.
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If they will apparently just randomly or perhaps "accidentally" shoot someone, I don't see why we shouldn't.
Problem is, you think they should be held accountable for thier actions [which I believe is true] but that individuals shouldn't be. Rodney King's actions lead up to the beating that he recieved from the cops that finally caught up to him. Why? Becuase he resisted, repeatedly. The two people in his car did what the cops said and didn't.
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Problem is, you think they should be held accountable for thier actions [which I believe is true] but that individuals shouldn't be. Rodney King's actions lead up to the beating that he recieved from the cops that finally caught up to him. Why? Becuase he resisted, repeatedly. The two people in his car did what the cops said and didn't.
When did I say that he wouldn't or shouldn't be held accountable? I think your assuming and you know what happens when you assume don't you?
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The video shows him resisting when they were trying to cuff him. He didn't deserve being shot and the cop will stand trial for it.
Just admit you have a problem with cops.
This has been your stance all along. I knew you would eventually make this ignorant assumption. Make no mistake, you are ignorant.
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If they will apparently just randomly or perhaps "accidentally" shoot someone, I don't see why we shouldn't.
That statement shows you don't have much respect for law enforcement officers, or am I just "assuming"? I think not.
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This has been your stance all along. I knew you would eventually make this ignorant assumption. Make no mistake, you are ignorant.
Its no assumption about it. Grant was resisting when he should have been cooperating with the cops.
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Just admit you have a problem with cops.
Now this is about me? That's an opprobrious switch. You say all of your assumptions like you are the voice of God and omniscient. :rolleyes:
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YAY another scumbag dead. :aok Less taxes from my wallet.
Now if they would just melt these morons down and grease the roads with them, they would have actually served a purpose.
Moral of the story: Don't resist with cops who have guns, and do what they tell you. If you can't do that, then you are too stupid to live.
I love all those little kiddies and independent dependents who still live off their mom/dad/my dollars that say "DOWN WITH THE MAN"...but rely on them everyday. Cause lets face it, if you live like this you are weak minded and would be the first to die without the presence of the police.
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YAY another scumbag dead. :aok Less taxes from my wallet.
Now if they would just melt these morons down and grease the roads with them, they would have actually served a purpose.
Moral of the story: Don't resist with cops who have guns, and do what they tell you. If you can't do that, then you are too stupid to live.
I love all those little kiddies and independent dependents who still live off their mom/dad/my dollars that say "DOWN WITH THE MAN"...but rely on them everyday. Cause lets face it, if you live like this you are weak minded and would be the first to die without the presence of the police.
I think there's more to this than some of you "experts" are somehow reading.
You are saying you condone "accidental shootings by cops." Morons have become too commonplace in the World. I think they need to castrate folks more.
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The morons of the world are the ones that think people shouldn't be responsible for thier own actions, unless they are a cop.
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The morons of the world are the ones that think people shouldn't be responsible for thier own actions, unless they are a cop.
You're the dolt putting words in our mouths. I've never "defended Grant", but "mistakenly shooting someone" is BS.
But you've managed to show the Community you have no Reading Comprehension skills.
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You're the dolt putting words in our mouths. I've never "defended Grant", but "mistakenly shooting someone" is BS.
But you've managed to show the Community you have no Reading Comprehension skills.
"Mistakenly shooting somone" is BS? Most people would consider that a tragic accident.
Intentionally shooting someone is murder, which some in here think is what the cop did. Are you one of them? I don't want to say because you will acuse me of putting words into your mouth.
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The police officer has given multiple stories and been caught doing it. He shot the guy with no reason to do so. Sounds like murder to me.
Also I would have you know that I'm not an anarchist. I know how important having a well trained, well funded, and well educated police force is to society.
What you should know is that I also have zero tolerance for anyone "accidentally" shooting someone. Guns don't kill people, people kill people, right?
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So you personally heard him give multiple stories? I didn't know you were in on the investigation.
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The judge stated:
Mehserle appears willing to "make up something that's not true" to escape consequences for shooting Grant, Jacobson said.
Taken from this story:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/30/BABI15KCD5.DTL&type=adfree
I'm really done with this thread now.
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Oh yes, I'm sure the San Francisco Chronicle is a legitimate news agency. :rolleyes:
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Oh yes, I'm sure the San Francisco Chronicle is a legitimate news agency. :rolleyes:
So you think they misquoted the judge and the Oakland PD?
shamus
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Its possible. Just ask Dan Rather.
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Cant argue with that logic, nothing is true and nothing is false.
shamus
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:noid