Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: grizz441 on January 25, 2009, 05:47:45 PM
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I have a question for land grabbers and my intent isn't to judge your game play but merely understand your motives for it. I'm just curious what motivates you to capture bases and try to win the war. On these gigantic maps you can barely put a dent into any sides actual base numbers. And after your efforts, you log off and go to sleep. When you log back on the next day usually the map is entirely different than how you left it. I'm also curious how many "War Victories" are actually achieved monthly on the large maps and if getting booted from an arena is really an award that makes it worth doing.
I've done the land grab thing before and it was definitely fun but I lost interest in it realllly quick because I finally just asked myself, why am I trying to capture this base? What is this really going to accomplish? What's the point? If it's a way to create teamwork between you and your friends I can understand wanting to create that sense of teamwork because it makes the game more fun, but I've learned for me personally, there are much better ways to teamwork and have it be incredibly more satisfying. Maybe some die hard land grabbers could explain their motives so I can better understand.
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Ill answer as a furballer and make your argument go to crap. Its all personal preferance, Im in a land grabbing sqaud but I like to furball. Alot of times the best fights happen at a base thats almost taken. Also it creates new fights, personally my favorite furball is one over a V-Base, to take the base you need air dominance over it and it ends up being a great furball with acouple of easy B 25H kills to add on to your good victories. If nobody took bases the maps would be the same lame furball all day long, I like changing the terrain of where i fight because I think that goes along with ACM, to be able to use the land against your enemy.
nuff said :salute
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If you just furball, it will get old eventually and you might lose interest.
Base grabing involves much more than just shooting people down. There jabbo and GV's usually in the mix and a good variety of it.
That is what we do in squad night. The other nights furball.
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Ill answer as a furballer and make your argument go to crap. Its all personal preferance, Im in a land grabbing sqaud but I like to furball. Alot of times the best fights happen at a base thats almost taken. Also it creates new fights, personally my favorite furball is one over a V-Base, to take the base you need air dominance over it and it ends up being a great furball with acouple of easy B 25H kills to add on to your good victories. If nobody took bases the maps would be the same lame furball all day long, I like changing the terrain of where i fight because I think that goes along with ACM, to be able to use the land against your enemy.
nuff said :salute
Yeah taking bases definitely promotes fights which is a good thing but do the people trying to take the base really care about the fight that they inadvertently created? If they did it with intent of creating a fight and then participate in the fight they created, power to ya. I am curious about the motivations of those who play with their only intent to win the war at all costs.
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Ill answer as a furballer and make your argument go to crap. Its all personal preferance, Im in a land grabbing sqaud but I like to furball. Alot of times the best fights happen at a base thats almost taken. Also it creates new fights, personally my favorite furball is one over a V-Base, to take the base you need air dominance over it and it ends up being a great furball with acouple of easy B 25H kills to add on to your good victories. If nobody took bases the maps would be the same lame furball all day long, I like changing the terrain of where i fight because I think that goes along with ACM, to be able to use the land against your enemy.
nuff said :salute
SRI...you aren't describing a "furballer". You are describing a "vulture". :)
BTW, nothing wrong with either, as there is nothing wrong with attacking and capturing fields. What the complaints have been about is the perceived view that way to often it all becomes about doing anything to get a reset. That mentality makes for very crappy game play....unless, of course, resets are all you play for. :)
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What is this really going to accomplish? What's the point? I
Taking a stab here.
But.
Maybe they are having fun? The point of a Game is to have fun?
'just sayin :uhoh
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I was almost gonna make a thread about this--specifically, noe's. People pay money for an ONLINE game, then expend no small amount of effort into making sure they take bases with no interaction whatsoever with said online enemies.... :confused:
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You must understand, people do not pay to play the game with other people.
They pay to *beat* other people at the game.
For some that is shooting down their fellow players in a2a combat or ground combat.
For some others...for some bizarre reason...that is "winning the war". Different things, same motivation.
I was almost gonna make a thread about this--specifically, noe's. People pay money for an ONLINE game, then expend no small amount of effort into making sure they take bases with no interaction whatsoever with said online enemies.... :confused:
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Some one touched on it briefly but I'll go into a little more detail. Furballing is more or less mindless. The only skills you need is gunnery and ACM and if your really great at gunnery, than you don't even really need the acm. But to take bases requires a whole lot more than just shooting down airplanes. It requires strategy, both tactical and strategic, it requires some level of planning, coordination, teamwork and the management of your available assets. It also requires the ability to adapt, improvise and overcome changes to the battle field when things don't go as planned especially when you're facing strong resistance either numerically and/or skillfully. Now keep this in mind when I talk about rhe things I mentioned above, I don't mean the 30-50 man hordes. Anyone can take bases with those numbers. I concider it comperable to playing chess. It's not so much the act of shooting people down or blowing things up, it's the intellectual aspect that draws people to that aspect of the game and there are alot of people who really think that games like these are simulated wars as opposed to simulated combat or individual battles. I hope this helps
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Furballing is more or less mindless. The only skills you need is gunnery and ACM and if your really great at gunnery, than you don't even really need the acm.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Yeah, gunnery and ACM...nothing to those. Nothing "chess-like" at all.
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My beef is that most (nearly all) of the missions I run into show little or no ACM when forced to fight. They break in and toss the furniture but can't put up a fistfight if you make it downstairs in time to catch em. This is a calamity ESPECIALY given that their leaders have enough leverage on them to guide them to whatever means (topical websites, trainers, unofficial tutors, etc) available to push them further up the air COMBAT learning curve, and with some luck get them onto the self-sufficient learning phase.
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You must understand, people do not pay to play the game with other people.
They pay to *beat* other people at the game.
For some that is shooting down their fellow players in a2a combat or ground combat.
For some others...for some bizarre reason...that is "winning the war". Different things, same motivation.
this by far is the most understandable reason i have heard to date, makes perfect sense to me.
I don't go for the land grab aspect of the game either but when it is put this way Iunderstand why people do it.
for others though I think what the OP was referring to was the 50 man NOE missions that run into bases and take them with little to no opposition. which as far as I am conerned the above explanation still works even if that type of play is not for me.
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. This is a calamity ESPECIALY given that their leaders have enough leverage on them to guide them to whatever means (topical websites, trainers, unofficial tutors, etc) available to push them further up the air COMBAT learning curve, and with some luck get them onto the self-sufficient learning phase.
I've found that even the majority of those who actually like a2a seem to want to spend 100% of their AHII time actually playing, as opposed to practice and training, I guess I can't really blame them. Completely the opposite of how I like to allocate my time, but my mindset is uncommon I suppose.
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It is fun for one thing,I like running missions,my squad likes running missions,and ALL sides run missions..so it is fun for all who join a mission..
Ran a mission tonight that took 45 min to get to the base,and did not get it.wasnt fun being back in the tower though.. :lol
Their is planning going on behind the scenes when I am running missions by squaddies.It used to be lets take the base,now it is "Let's keep it also"..
It gets one tired,it can wear you down,but thats part of the game..Taking bases..I furball sometimes,but when on I usually like to run missions..it gets everyone together and firing on the same cylinders.If 15 join or 50 join,it is fun,and I am thinking it is fun for MANY others as the missions get joined by others..
Although I dont think I will EVER run missions on another New Years eve.. :D
I WANT to re-set the map,I guess that is my GOAL,as well as others who join missions..Missions are a means to an end..And in the end,whoever gets 40% of bases on both sides gets the reset..
I do not think it shallow running missions and taking land,any more than it is shallow always doing ONE part of a game that has many opportunitys for all to do something that they like..
Falcon23 :salute
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I have a question for land grabbers and my intent isn't to judge your game play but merely understand your motives for it. I'm just curious what motivates you to capture bases and try to win the war. On these gigantic maps you can barely put a dent into any sides actual base numbers. And after your efforts, you log off and go to sleep. When you log back on the next day usually the map is entirely different than how you left it. I'm also curious how many "War Victories" are actually achieved monthly on the large maps and if getting booted from an arena is really an award that makes it worth doing.
I've done the land grab thing before and it was definitely fun but I lost interest in it realllly quick because I finally just asked myself, why am I trying to capture this base? What is this really going to accomplish? What's the point? If it's a way to create teamwork between you and your friends I can understand wanting to create that sense of teamwork because it makes the game more fun, but I've learned for me personally, there are much better ways to teamwork and have it be incredibly more satisfying. Maybe some die hard land grabbers could explain their motives so I can better understand.
Why? Because I can't think of a better way to start a riot than threatening the ownership of a base....and I like riots.
Bombs dropping, tanks firing, rockets whizzing by, tracer rounds all over, burning planes and blown up structures all in the same area.......whats not to like?
Pretty simple
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If there were a dozen different plans people commonly use to take bases depending on the situation, then land grabbing could be compared to chess.
However, there are two. NOE or toolshed the base to death with high buffs. Neither commonly leads to fun gameplay IMHO.
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Good question Grizz. I'm not a die-hard landgrabber but there have been times I could have been accused of it and likely will be again. So having said that here's my thinking:
I don't give a rat's err... um patootie for the victory (i.e. successful acquisition of real estate). The draw for me is playing with a bunch of friends with a view to achieving a goal. That's the fun part. It's more fun to achieve the goal but regardless of the outcome it's fun none the less. As far as I'm concerned the differences between furballers and landgrabber/tool-shedders is entirely artificial and meaningless. Anyone who buys into either side of that particular argument is doing nothing but limiting their own ability to have fun in the game. They are just two different ways of playing the game - one is a solo gig, the other isn't.
If someone can't have fun if anyone else isn't doing exactly what they are doing, well <self-censoring>tomato</self-censoring> 'em afaic. I don't personally have that limited a view point on how AH should be played. It's your $15 - spend it how you like.
asw
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I've found that even the majority of those who actually like a2a seem to want to spend 100% of their AHII time actually playing, as opposed to practice and training, I guess I can't really blame them. Completely the opposite of how I like to allocate my time, but my mindset is uncommon I suppose.
I'm coming on 10 years of playing. Before even playing, I knew that maneuvering for a kill was what separated those that won from those that lost a dogfight. It's not hard.. Watch any WWI or WWII reel and see the planes tangle.. Whether maneuvering in a furball or 1:1. 6 months into playing AH, I half-purposedly ended up in the TA with Jekyll, a trainer (official I think), who showed me barrel rolls etc. It lasted about 30min maximum. After that I was drawing ACM curves like the aircraft trails you see in the AH film viewer in the margins of class notes, for furballing, merges, dive bomb drops into AAA, etc.
So the pessimistic rough numbers are 6 months + 30min = over 9 years of climbing the learning curve and having a blast while doing it. That's hardly a lot to ask. I'm a rubbish teacher at the moment but I'm going to try and improve enough to show anyone who's up for it that it's really not a pain in the rear at all to learn formal acm. It's a lot of fun, actualy. Like coming out of the chiropractor's with a straightened back.
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Capturing bases is fun! :aok
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I WANT to re-set the map,I guess that is my GOAL,as well as others who join missions..Missions are a means to an end..And in the end,whoever gets 40% of bases on both sides gets the reset..
I do not think it shallow running missions and taking land,any more than it is shallow always doing ONE part of a game that has many opportunitys for all to do something that they like..
...and there in lies the rub. The point of the game has been lost.
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Some one touched on it briefly but I'll go into a little more detail. Furballing is more or less mindless. The only skills you need is gunnery and ACM and if your really great at gunnery, than you don't even really need the acm. But to take bases requires a whole lot more than just shooting down airplanes. It requires strategy, both tactical and strategic, it requires some level of planning, coordination, teamwork and the management of your available assets. It also requires the ability to adapt, improvise and overcome changes to the battle field when things don't go as planned especially when you're facing strong resistance either numerically and/or skillfully. Now keep this in mind when I talk about rhe things I mentioned above, I don't mean the 30-50 man hordes. Anyone can take bases with those numbers. I concider it comperable to playing chess. It's not so much the act of shooting people down or blowing things up, it's the intellectual aspect that draws people to that aspect of the game and there are alot of people who really think that games like these are simulated wars as opposed to simulated combat or individual battles. I hope this helps
Well gunnery is part of ACM which fucoses on moving your plane into an area as to have the easiest possible shot :aok
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Everyone shutup and fly... :D
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I like to do both (landgrab and furball). Actually I prefer 1 v 1 fights ( I don't multitask well ) lol. There seems to be a lot of squeaking about the NOEs and stuff but all you are really seeing is an organized attack. What you don't see very often is an organized defence. We have radar, flashing bases and DarBars. How many "up" to see whats going on before its too late? Sometimes I feel like playing "Risk" and other nights I go into "Arcade" mode. If I'm not having fun... I log.
:salute
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Furballing is more or less mindless.
and shooting or dropping bombs on buildings is...thought provoking?
It requires strategy, both tactical and strategic, it requires some level of planning, coordination, teamwork and the management of your available assets. It also requires the ability to adapt, improvise and overcome changes to the battle field when things don't go as planned especially when you're facing strong resistance either numerically and/or skillfully.
More often then not (in my experience) when a base take goes bad (strong resistance), they attackers pack up and move to another field with less resistance. I suppose that is strategy and adapting.
:rolleyes:
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I WANT to re-set the map,I guess that is my GOAL,as well as others who join missions..Missions are a means to an end..And in the end,whoever gets 40% of bases on both sides gets the reset..
I do not think it shallow running missions and taking land,any more than it is shallow always doing ONE part of a game that has many opportunitys for all to do something that they like..
Falcon23 :salute
The reset the map goal is what I don't get. Nobody keeps score on which chess piece wins the most resets in a given month. I'm still curious though, does anyone know how many resets occur in a given month? Or maybe even gander at a guess?
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The reset the map goal is what I don't get. Nobody keeps score on which chess piece wins the most resets in a given month. I'm still curious though, does anyone know how many resets occur in a given month? Or maybe even gander at a guess?
In midwar there seem to be multiple resets every day.
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In midwar there seem to be multiple resets every day.
Heh, I'm talking about the gigantic LW maps where each side has 50 bases and each side offers resistence.
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I enjoy all aspects of the game. After flying a few sorties I then want to do some other things. Even after a few missions I move on to something else. Yeah I like winning the war and I enjoy missions. Large maps can be won. It hasn't happened for a while but it will again sometime.
Like so many have already said missions can lead to much action and as stated in my post about a6.
Most everything I do in the game is based on fun. However, sometimes I will up a buff to do the bombing necessary and while I don't particular like buffing it can be a blast at times and very rewarding.
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As far as the actual capturing part I do that to help improve my score/rank which yes, I do play for within reason. Plus it's kind of fun especially when you get in with enemy panes/vehicles around and you take the base out from under them.
Another reason is that it allows me, as a member of a two man squad who rarely see one another, a chance to interact a little more closely with my fellow Bish.
Personally, I could care less about winning the war. It's just another way to have some fun in the game.
As to NOE/sneak scenarios I've got two quick stories from this camp:
One night on the pinwheel map Rooks had three Bish VB bases (in a row). Bish were attacking Rook bases captured from us to the south of these. I NOE'd an La5 from the east to the middle VB, took out the ack then got shot down by a Wirble. I upped again and NOE'd from the north to the west base, took down the ack and radar and got shot down by the same guy in a Wirble again. Two friendlies were approaching that base on the ground so I upped a Goon from the north and took the middle field while the lone defender was busy. Then a bunch of friendlies were attacking the East base so I grabbed an M3 and soon took that base. Finally, I upped from the west and took the west base with the help of friendlies.
This weekend there was a major battle going on for the VB's on an island on the big water map with the three big islands. I flew out an F6F and killed a couple GV's then went to the other base and took out the ack and radar. There were no defenders as everyone was busy at the other base so, after landing, I grabbed a Goon and headed back. Just before I got there we took the first base and I was sure I wouldn't get in thinking everyone would be pouring out of the hangers to defend the second base. They weren't and I landed next to the maproom with at least two enemy planes buzzing just over my head but I got the capture (and a safe ditch).
In both these cases I see the fun as being able to develop a strategy that I, as a lone player, can implement and try to pull off. I find great pleasure in being able to try to outwit and outplay my opponents.
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It's all about competition and challenge. And skill growth, improvement.
For pure furballers that equates to 1 v. 1 dogfights. The individual against the individual. No more, no less.
For the Win-The-War types (WTW), it's about team vs. team, whether that team is your wingman, your mission, squad, or your country.
The enemy has challenged you by attacking your base, so you defend, individually if you prefer, or collectively. For the furballer, it's an even simpler challenge in that the opponent has taken up an airplane into YOUR air space, effectively challenging your ACM skill. So you accept that challenge and compete to win, 1 v. 1.
For WTW people, there is more to the game available to them than that. The enemy simply has bases that should be yours, or attacks your bases, or simply exists as your designated (by the game itself) as your opponent - that's the challenge. The competition (in AH) is to protect your bases and take his, but collectively, using teamwork, tacticals and cooperation as well as using ACM skills when flying. It is so much a greater skill challenge than just being a hot ACM dogfighter. But to each their own.
I like furballing now and again, and try to get better at it, but it becomes very pointless and boring for me if that's all there is to this game. For some furballers, that's all there needs to be. There happy with that, and that's fine.
For me and other WTW pilots, having a game structure that focuses attention on more than just 1 v. 1 (but including that from time to time) is essential to continue to enjoy the game over time. That and the fact we enjoy the teamwork aspect -- the cooperation and skills needed to acheive concerted joint effort -- the goal of which is to take bases. This gives the dogfighting aspect more purpose, meaning it stays enjoyable longer.
And for some, there is the historical simulation aspect. The enjoyment of pretending what it was like to fly in a squad in combat during WWII (or as close as we can expect here). That adds another dimension and level of enjoyment for many that they wouldn't get by just furballing all the time.
We all really want the same things, competition, a challenge, a chance to learn and display our skills. One just has a more limited focus as a furballer, and a broader one as a War Winner.
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What I love about this game is its dynamics. I wouldnt call myself a furballer, landgrabber, GVer or WTW type guy because I like it all.
Base taking is just one aspect of the game that I enjoy also but I have to agree that lately, more and more people are focusing on real estate rather than fighting their opposer.
What seems to be the "Fad" now a days is that a mission is posted on country...JOIN MISSION..NEED 110s, NIKS and GOONS." now depending on how "poplular" of a mission planner you are, lets say if your good, youll get 11-15 110s, 5-8 Niks and 2-C47s. Chances are, your flying off into some sector and feild that hasnt seen action, you are heading to a point that your enemy wouldnt commonly suspect a NOE to arrive and chances are...your "mission planner" has already taken the liberty of taking out the radar prior to the horde entering. If not, they offer a deak to fly high in the north if the attack is coming from the south. All this for one reason and one reason only...AVOID the enemy. A complete "weenie" tactic that I think is no fun to anyone but the desktop general who planned it in the first place.
When you are in a mission and the only fight you have is with 10 other green guys for 1 red guy..your in a horde. when you find yourself landing with all your ammo still available..your in a horde.
The so called whines you hear on 200 and bbs about hordes are not whines...but smacks in the heads to these guys that join these migrating wildabeast missions that when you get tied up in the hype of the only satisfaction you get is seeing "country X has captured feild 12", The day you actually get bored (and trust me, it will come soon) of landgrabbing or flying with outstanding #s on your side...you become a noob all over agian when you want to learn your plane..learn ACM etc...
ABOLISH the mission planner on the clipboard IMO..if anything, its excessive and taking over the game especially to the noob. Have him learn his plane of choice and not be distracted by the huge #s of green guys there to protect him. Encourage the fact that in order to get good at this game..you need to get shot down a million times before you finally get it right, but trust me, its all worth it.
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My only motivation for busting up an NOE would be to spoil the people's mission who planned it. Other than that, I don't give a hoot about the base, they can have it.
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Here's an idea that I would definitely see a huge purpose in trying to win the war. Imagine if your squad could 'team duel' another squad something like 30 on 30 on some sort of a mini map with a few bases, and a couple vehicle bases. The goal would be to win the war against the other squad. This is how I could become motivated to win the war, being able to solely rely on your squaddies and being able to accomplish it in one sitting. Imagine how fun that would be.
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can i ask you why you just furball then? surely that is the exact same question.
at least with land grabbing theres a goal.
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What sloehand said!
Every AH pilot will go through at least some stages.
Which ones depends on what they enjoy, what they learn, and who they hang with.
The fact is that AH is a Multifaceted Game, there are many things to explore and do.
Just diving into a furball is only 1 side. There are several others just as complicated, just as intriguing, just as difficult to master, just as enjoyable.
The truly well rounded AH Pilot will do a bit of most of these. Which one he'll be doing at any given time depends on many variables. Some nights the flying just doesn't click, so you haul troops, or grab a wirble, etc.
Pure ACM furballer types actually tend to burn out and drop out of AH quicker than many.
At the point where others would start moving on to add other tactics, skills, WTW tactics, etc they just don't seem to make the jump.
AH has many facets to explore, but its up to you to do the exploring.
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I did not bother to read each and every reply, but...
I run an occasional mission, NOE or otherwise, to capture a base. The result is that<<<<A FIGHT ENSUES>>>> to <<<GET IT BACK>>>. (Did I mention "fight"?)
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I never find furballs boring. Each one is different.
I can only laugh at the folks who get a thrill flying past the fight to kamikazee pork the base. Absolutely no skill required. Something anyone can do, so it must be one boring ride.
I read in this thread some folks claim taking a base creates a fight. Actually a fight can be created... just announce your inbound to a certain base. Some folks will up and you can have a nice fight. Slowly or eventually killing all the ack and vulching does not "create" a fight.
This has become an issue in MW too. Folks show up in mass at a base, couple of defenders up and boom...... the attackers die then go somewhere else where they can milk.. umm I mean create a fight.
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what makes me chuckle is when a WTW moans about the lack of porking going on, usually involves them calling out his fellow teammates moaning about why no-one porks and how good the other teams are at doing it.
encouraging mindless suicide jabos to drop dar/ord/troops is a griefer mentality when it isn't used tactically and a force of habit.
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what makes me chuckle is when a WTW moans about the lack of porking going on, usually involves them calling out his fellow teammates moaning about why no-one porks and how good the other teams are at doing it.
encouraging mindless suicide jabos to drop dar/ord/troops is a griefer mentality when it isn't used tactically and a force of habit.
Porking is a good way to stop (Slow) hording and protect your bases. If some one does an noe to an isolated base I'm taking down strats. Usually do it with bombers since I don't care for suicide runs.
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Furballing is more or less mindless.
This comment will always make me laugh. Those town buildings being so tough to hit with all their manuevers to avoid your guns and shoot you down and oh wait...my bad. I forgot that landgrabbing to "win the war" is about as mindless as it gets.
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Porking is a good way to stop (Slow) hording and protect your bases. If some one does an noe to an isolated base I'm taking down strats. Usually do it with bombers since I don't care for suicide runs.
By all means it can be used when done properly, I could kill ord / dar in my pony then kill some guys at the base before RTB. The ones that get chewwed up by ack and crash/burn/ auger = lame.
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The draw for me is playing with a bunch of friends with a view to achieving a goal. That's the fun part. It's more fun to achieve the goal but regardless of the outcome it's fun none the less. As far as I'm concerned the differences between furballers and landgrabber/tool-shedders is entirely artificial and meaningless. Anyone who buys into either side of that particular argument is doing nothing but limiting their own ability to have fun in the game. They are just two different ways of playing the game - one is a solo gig, the other isn't.
Good post, and I agree with you to some degree. Like I've said before, land grabbing can encourage fights (that is one of the reasons I am opposed to NOE missions). The good missions don't have 30+ guys using numbers as a bridge to avoid showing any skill. Do whatever you want, just be good at what you do.
Take Dr7, for example, he is reported to be a great tanker. I've never seen him tank personally (since I rarely tank) but his ability makes his name known to me and many others within AH.
Imagine if your squad could 'team duel' another squad something like 30 on 30 on some sort of a mini map with a few bases, and a couple vehicle bases. The goal would be to win the war against the other squad.
We did squad duels this way in Airwarrior, the most notable event being the squad duel between the Dover Dawgs and the Nomads. My squad at the time, the Dover Dawgs, lost but the way the Nomads handled the win impressed me more than the win itself. They didn't beat their chests, but generally admired our (admittedly) newbie squad for giving them the best run they had in a long time. I later was invited to the Nomads when the Dawgs fell apart.
You have seen many Nomads around; Silat, Guppy/Dan/Corky, Dead (Leviathn), Jaberwock, Moss, Honch, Seal (flies with the Specialists now), and me (+Dizy).
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i think land grabbers are just like the furballers. that;s what they enjoy. they like to go capture bases. it may or may not matter to them if they win the war or not.
for us furballers, landgrabbers are good. some of the absolute best white knuckle hair raising roller coaster ride adrennilan pumping fights happen when a base is just about dead. they come up in droves to defend, and the fight generally stays a few miles off the base...........
for the guys that like to pick, landgrabbers are good, because they create the furballs that they can pick from.
for the bnz'rs, same thing.
it all ties in together, and makes this game what it is.
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Personally, I like trying it all -I'll furball, bomb, gv, goon, whatever I feel like at the time.
Think the most fun I've had when taking a base, was me, bruv and connery (yep, all 3 of us) decided to try and take a base. I took a 110 over, bruv had a set of buff's (for town only) and connery had a goon. Most of town was down (3 buildings left) and I returned in another 110 - took the remaining buildings out, Bruv was engaging the uppers (still a couple near town) so I ran out to sea (had to drag them away from the goon).
While they were engaging me (successfully I might add lol), troops were let go, and they had nowhere nearby to land. 3 of us took a base, had a lot of fun doing so, and had fun fighting the defenders to accomplish what we'd decided to try.
Wurzel
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A couple of things about NOE's. NOE's counter balance 30k sputniks. I've seen NOE's go right under 30k cons and take successive bases. Another thing is after several NOE's folks want a little more action and ask for the In-your-Face missions. So they get old too. Then the opposite of that is when an noe fails you are dead meat being on the deck. So again they go for alt. on the next mission. In the end it all seems to balance. Many times it's not hard to determine where they are going next.
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I think most players like doing a bit of everything. some peeps on the BB's just like to classify players as this or that,
btw...NOE missions can produce great fights, I constantly scan the map and watch for bases flashing without dar bar.
IMO, One of the most exciting aspects of the game is the NOE scramble defense
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To answer Grizz's original question, here is an example of my reasoning for taking a base. Last night in LW Orange the Knights had two fields on Rooklandia's coast. I want to say it was A96? & P99?. There was two full sectors of Rook dar, one over 96, one directly south and obviously heading to 96 in the north. There was 3/4's to a full friendly dar in 96's sector. I upped with squaddies from 96 and was never able to get above 2000 feet or more than 6k from the field. Not a fun fight. 96 was more or less capped and was on the verge of a vulchfest. There were just too many Rook planes to deal with. This does not include the GV's that were also actively attacking 96. After myself, squaddies and other friendlies had been shot down multiple times with little or nothing to show for it, the Pigs decided as a group to take the Rook base to the south to give the Knights a little breathing room at 96. First thing we did was run a fighter sweep from a Knight Island in the north a sector and a half away. We came in to 96 around 15k, and began forcing the Rooks down lower, and further south towards their airfield. FUN FIGHT! We immediately followed up with multiple bomber boxes and escorts from the same field we launched the sweep from. The Rooks obviously saw the Dar, and had alot of planes waiting for us. We lost at least 50% of our bombers and escorts, and only a few actually made it to the Rook field. FUN FIGHT! Not to be discouraged (we are a Pig headed lot, LOL). We upped again in bombers and escorts and came in much higher. We still had Rook planes waiting for us, but we only lost about 20% of our bombers on this go round. FUN FIGHT! We delivered alot of ordnance onto the Rook base and shut it down. We tried to take the base, but in the end the supply lines were too drawn out and we were unable to complete the task. FUN FIGHT! Hopefully somewhere in this you will see my reasoning for wanting to take this base.
FUN FIGHT! <-----subliminal message
<Salute>
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I really like to capture a base. It's not much fun if it's snuck when nobody's around to defend it though. If there's TONS of people defending and it's still captured, those are my favorite captures. :)
BTW, all those little M8's yesterday evening rolling through was really fun & very funny to see. :aok
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I really like to capture a base. It's not much fun if it's snuck when nobody's around to defend it though. If there's TONS of people defending and it's still captured, those are my favorite captures. :)
BTW, all those little M8's yesterday evening rolling through was really fun & very funny to see. :aok
i know what you mean here......when i get in on one of the gv battles, the absolute most rewarding capture is when ya manage to sneak your troops past the defenders.......and i've seen it done on occassion.
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To answer Grizz's original question, here is an example of my reasoning for taking a base. Last night in LW Orange the Knights had two fields on Rooklandia's coast. I want to say it was A96? & P99?. There was two full sectors of Rook dar, one over 96, one directly south and obviously heading to 96 in the north. There was 3/4's to a full friendly dar in 96's sector. I upped with squaddies from 96 and was never able to get above 2000 feet or more than 6k from the field. Not a fun fight. 96 was more or less capped and was on the verge of a vulchfest. There were just too many Rook planes to deal with. This does not include the GV's that were also actively attacking 96. After myself, squaddies and other friendlies had been shot down multiple times with little or nothing to show for it, the Pigs decided as a group to take the Rook base to the south to give the Knights a little breathing room at 96. First thing we did was run a fighter sweep from a Knight Island in the north a sector and a half away. We came in to 96 around 15k, and began forcing the Rooks down lower, and further south towards their airfield. FUN FIGHT! We immediately followed up with multiple bomber boxes and escorts from the same field we launched the sweep from. The Rooks obviously saw the Dar, and had alot of planes waiting for us. We lost at least 50% of our bombers and escorts, and only a few actually made it to the Rook field. FUN FIGHT! Not to be discouraged (we are a Pig headed lot, LOL). We upped again in bombers and escorts and came in much higher. We still had Rook planes waiting for us, but we only lost about 20% of our bombers on this go round. FUN FIGHT! We delivered alot of ordnance onto the Rook base and shut it down. We tried to take the base, but in the end the supply lines were too drawn out and we were unable to complete the task. FUN FIGHT! Hopefully somewhere in this you will see my reasoning for wanting to take this base.
FUN FIGHT! <-----subliminal message
<Salute>
Sounds like a good time! Couple things. I absolutely understand that sometimes the map will dictate a form of game play. Sometimes you want to play and the best option is to bomb or GV something. Your actions last night promoted and created good fun fights for everybody. This is why the game is built this way. The map and the overall WTW theme is to promote the fight; GV and Aerial combat. I think some people get lost in the WTW at all costs strategy. If you want to WTW then you may be inclined to attack the bases with the least amount of resistance, which is the most effective way to WTW. This is where the theme of the game gets lost. or suicide attacks on bases.
I don't know how the terms furballers, a good fight, ACM, all got garbled up into meaning the same thing. I prefer a fair fight but I'll take what I can get. I actually dislike a mindless furball, I'd rather stay on the outskirts of one and hope another pilot will see me out there and come and fight me. Being in a furball really doesn't mean you know how to fight which might explain some misconceptions on the style of gameplay.
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i think land grabbers are just like the furballers. that;s what they enjoy. they like to go capture bases. it may or may not matter to them if they win the war or not.
for us furballers, landgrabbers are good. some of the absolute best white knuckle hair raising roller coaster ride adrennilan pumping fights happen when a base is just about dead. they come up in droves to defend, and the fight generally stays a few miles off the base...........
for the guys that like to pick, landgrabbers are good, because they create the furballs that they can pick from.
for the bnz'rs, same thing.
it all ties in together, and makes this game what it is.
All coming from a squaddie of one of the biggest land grabbing squads in them there midwar. They are extremely well organized dropping all hangers, ord, radars with their sea of endless lances doing this all the first pass. Mind you with one of the games best top cover man waiting for anybody to even dare to lift off before said hangers are neutralized everything but the outhouses are killed . Did I mention the 20 wirbels that are simultaneously taking the town down with 40 supplies out so if you do take out a turret no problem theres more where that came from. Even if you do get past the top cover and manage to get on someones 6 it's only short lived because they will just drag you over the sprinklers, yes sprinklers because with 20 wirbles under you it looks like someone turned the sprinklers on. If anyone does make it out of the Gv hanger or spawn in with a Gv ( if those hangers haven't been dropped as well) the left over bombs from the lancs will soon be coming down on you. They dive bomb lancs like nobodies business.
Like I said they are very well organized and work together better than any other squad I have seen any arena. The problem I see with that form of playing style is none of the participants with exception of a couple ever get any better. They feed off of one another's strength's so much that they end up being a one dimensional player. It's exposed when there are only 5-6 of them on and are trying to capture a base, but none can dogfight worth a hill of beans so one enemy fighter can stop the whole base take, or when they force a guy who can't gv to gv because he's been flying the goon for the last 2 years and you kill his Tiger with a T-34. Or his job was killing the radars at all the surrounding bases and now he's forced into bombing because they need a guy to bomb and he cant even figure the gun stations out so he gets all 3 of his buffs killed without even pinging the fighter that shot him down. That's of course is their business. Everybody is entitled to play the game as they want. One exception to that is when they start the chest thumpin about how awesome they are because they reset the map for the last 25 tours. It just puts a smile on my face because I know that the very next day when they don't have the security of their squaddies to help them overcome their glaring one dimension playing ability they just end up spinning their wheels and dying a lot. I'm not a base taker, I once was when I started playing this game but got tired of getting shot down by everyone except the buildings I was shooting at .So I decide to move on. Now I guess I have become a base defender , thanks to Caps squad.
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I did not bother to read each and every reply, but...
I run an occasional mission, NOE or otherwise, to capture a base. The result is that<<<<A FIGHT ENSUES>>>> to <<<GET IT BACK>>>. (Did I mention "fight"?)
Your missions were the best bye far Egg. :aok.
The best was climbing out with about 30 jugs 2-3 sectors away. Everyone is assigned a duty and everyone counted on everyone to pull through. What a sight when you start diving below the clouds to see a swarm of red cons climbing for alt Those type missions are both fun for attackers and defenders. Even if you take the base or not its a win/win situation for all.
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I have seen many times I take a gv to a field not to capture but start a fight and it ends up being a huge fight with land and air assets invoved.
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I have a question for land grabbers and my intent isn't to judge your game play but merely understand your motives for it. I'm just curious what motivates you to capture bases and try to win the war. On these gigantic maps you can barely put a dent into any sides actual base numbers. And after your efforts, you log off and go to sleep. When you log back on the next day usually the map is entirely different than how you left it. I'm also curious how many "War Victories" are actually achieved monthly on the large maps and if getting booted from an arena is really an award that makes it worth doing.
I've done the land grab thing before and it was definitely fun but I lost interest in it realllly quick because I finally just asked myself, why am I trying to capture this base? What is this really going to accomplish? What's the point? If it's a way to create teamwork between you and your friends I can understand wanting to create that sense of teamwork because it makes the game more fun, but I've learned for me personally, there are much better ways to teamwork and have it be incredibly more satisfying. Maybe some die hard land grabbers could explain their motives so I can better understand.
I didn't read this whole thread...as I am sure it's prolly gotten to a furballer vs. landgrabber argument...
However....
Just a small story for ya that may help...
Furballing is what I like doing...defending mainly....But I'll do the attack fighter sweep or the occasional buff escort....
Yesterday since some in our squad do enjoy a base taking adventure some , we decided to attack 187. We all but had it and ended up losing the goon. So , we looked around....made a plan...and took a base on the bish mainland...97 I think it was or maybe 98....anyway...from there we took the port next to it.
What happened after that was a HUGE fight...that after about 4 hours was still going on. GV's had a place to fight one another. Fighters had a spot and the buffs kept coming and coming. They'd shut down GV's and fighters would be all over...GV's would get back up and the buffs would kill the FH's....this went on for hours.
Now I am CO of a fighter squad...After those 2 takes of bases...everyone was cool...thier appetites satified and back to fighting we went.
Land grabbin can help a furballer.....I don't think that furballers help the land garbbin as much...IMHO. Each has a role....Its when the land grabbers want to spoil what is a prefectly good fight , where nop land grab has been tried by either side , that you run into contention.
On these large maps....Base taking for any side could be fine....and fun had by them. Just leave a good furball alone.
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I have a question for land grabbers and my intent isn't to judge your game play but merely understand your motives for it. I'm just curious what motivates you to capture bases and try to win the war. On these gigantic maps you can barely put a dent into any sides actual base numbers. And after your efforts, you log off and go to sleep. When you log back on the next day usually the map is entirely different than how you left it. I'm also curious how many "War Victories" are actually achieved monthly on the large maps and if getting booted from an arena is really an award that makes it worth doing.
I've done the land grab thing before and it was definitely fun but I lost interest in it realllly quick because I finally just asked myself, why am I trying to capture this base? What is this really going to accomplish? What's the point? If it's a way to create teamwork between you and your friends I can understand wanting to create that sense of teamwork because it makes the game more fun, but I've learned for me personally, there are much better ways to teamwork and have it be incredibly more satisfying. Maybe some die hard land grabbers could explain their motives so I can better understand.
The challenge of assembling, organizing and
holding a group of guys together to achieve
a common goal.
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Sounds like a good time! Couple things. I absolutely understand that sometimes the map will dictate a form of game play. Sometimes you want to play and the best option is to bomb or GV something. Your actions last night promoted and created good fun fights for everybody. This is why the game is built this way. The map and the overall WTW theme is to promote the fight; GV and Aerial combat. I think some people get lost in the WTW at all costs strategy. If you want to WTW then you may be inclined to attack the bases with the least amount of resistance, which is the most effective way to WTW. This is where the theme of the game gets lost. or suicide attacks on bases.
I don't know how the terms furballers, a good fight, ACM, all got garbled up into meaning the same thing. I prefer a fair fight but I'll take what I can get. I actually dislike a mindless furball, I'd rather stay on the outskirts of one and hope another pilot will see me out there and come and fight me. Being in a furball really doesn't mean you know how to fight which might explain some misconceptions on the style of gameplay.
Hello Grizz,
I appreciate you seeing my side of things, and some of the decision making involved. The first thing I do upon login is check how many players that the Bishop/Rook have and how many bases each holds. I pull the Pigs together and go after the country with the most bases/highest number of players(kind of a mix of the two). Then I find the biggest concentration of the chosen target country and send the Pigs into battle. It is all about the fight, not necessarily just the dogfight.
PS-Before I forget..I upped a Spit 9 a few days ago and ran into 4 or 5 Muppets. I ended up getting shot down by Kappa, but it went on for 4-5 minutes. Lots of dodging, twisting & turning. It was a hoot! Thank you AOM! FUN FIGHT!
<Salute>
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Hello Grizz,
I appreciate you seeing my side of things, and some of the decision making involved. The first thing I do upon login is check how many players that the Bishop/Rook have and how many bases each holds. I pull the Pigs together and go after the country with the most bases/highest number of players(kind of a mix of the two). Then I find the biggest concentration of the chosen target country and send the Pigs into battle. It is all about the fight, not necessarily just the dogfight.
PS-Before I forget..I upped a Spit 9 a few days ago and ran into 4 or 5 Muppets. I ended up getting shot down by Kappa, but it went on for 4-5 minutes. Lots of dodging, twisting & turning. It was a hoot! Thank you AOM! FUN FIGHT!
<Salute>
You obviously are part of a huge squad, but as long as you guys use your numbers in a positive way for the health of the arena like you mentioned, then that's fantastic. If you're constantly fighting on the low side country, you will be fighting along side AoM frequently.
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you know,after reading much of this,especially from Tralfazz,whom I do respect,actually saying that NOE's ANYWHERE is bad form makes me wonder where he was when he was running his missions,many NOE...So you have moved on Tral,thats cool,but why talk trash about those who still do the NOE's weather to a base with alot of people around or not??And then trash talk about the way they do them..
FWIW,it is usually not in a missions best interest to go WAYYYYYYYYYY back,north,south,east,and or west to capture some lonely base where someone will not be watching..Because what happens is,if the base does get captured,it will usually get decimated by the other countrys who's it was..So it really is a waste of time..One has to make sure that something is around to support a base capture,otherwise it is all for nought.
I just cannot believe that people actually get upset about missions.My word,tral wants the mission planner on the clipboard done away with,and probably so do some others and why???
Cause we want to have fun OUR way and not your way???Please guys,get over it already..
Remember "NATURE ABHORS A VACUUM"...As soon as someone stops running missions,and decides to get on the "FURBALL BANDWAGON"someone else will pop up in their place to fill the void...But I dont think it means that since you dont do it anymore,that you NOW have the right to try and de-mean someone into stopping what you now consider pase',and are too good for..
Falcon23 :salute
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you know,after reading much of this,especially from Tralfazz,whom I do respect,actually saying that NOE's ANYWHERE is bad form makes me wonder where he was when he was running his missions,many NOE...So you have moved on Tral,thats cool,but why talk trash about those who still do the NOE's weather to a base with alot of people around or not??And then trash talk about the way they do them..
FWIW,it is usually not in a missions best interest to go WAYYYYYYYYYY back,north,south,east,and or west to capture some lonely base where someone will not be watching..Because what happens is,if the base does get captured,it will usually get decimated by the other countrys who's it was..So it really is a waste of time..One has to make sure that something is around to support a base capture,otherwise it is all for nought.
I just cannot believe that people actually get upset about missions.My word,tral wants the mission planner on the clipboard done away with,and probably so do some others and why???
Cause we want to have fun OUR way and not your way???Please guys,get over it already..
Remember "NATURE ABHORS A VACUUM"...As soon as someone stops running missions,and decides to get on the "FURBALL BANDWAGON"someone else will pop up in their place to fill the void...But I dont think it means that since you dont do it anymore,that you NOW have the right to try and de-mean someone into stopping what you now consider pase',and are too good for..
Falcon23 :salute
Why single Tral out?
He has only posted twice in this thread.
I think you're the one that needs to get over it already.
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I am over it,,I dont post about why people furball,and then say how lame it is,and I dont come in and say certain parts of the game should be done away with just because It does not suit my needs anymore..
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Well after reading all of the posts here I come to the conclusion that no matter what kind of base taking or map wining goes on you guys just don't like it, but think about this, lets say we stop taking bases leave the maps unwon and play the same maps for months on end, I bet the same people who do all the complaining would start taking bases at any cost just to change the map, so what is the purpose of the game as some of had said, I think it is all of the above.
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Naa.... they would start a rotation like they used to have.
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Naa.... they would start a rotation like they used to have.
Apparently they think they are responsible for all the map resets. Even the ones with over 200 bases.
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you know,after reading much of this,especially from Tralfazz,whom I do respect,actually saying that NOE's ANYWHERE is bad form makes me wonder where he was when he was running his missions,many NOE...So you have moved on Tral,thats cool,but why talk trash about those who still do the NOE's weather to a base with alot of people around or not??And then trash talk about the way they do them..FWIW,it is usually not in a missions best interest to go WAYYYYYYYYYY back,north,south,east,and or west to capture some lonely base where someone will not be watching..Because what happens is,if the base does get captured,it will usually get decimated by the other countrys who's it was..So it really is a waste of time..One has to make sure that something is around to support a base capture,otherwise it is all for nought. I just cannot believe that people actually get upset about missions.My word,tral wants the mission planner on the clipboard done away with,and probably so do some others and why??? Cause we want to have fun OUR way and not your way???Please guys,get over it already.. Remember "NATURE ABHORS A VACUUM"...As soon as someone stops running missions,and decides to get on the "FURBALL BANDWAGON"someone else will pop up in their place to fill the void...But I dont think it means that since you dont do it anymore,that you NOW have the right to try and de-mean someone into stopping what you now consider pase',and are too good for.. Falcon23 :salute
Again..Im not "demeaning" anyone here. Tons of respect go to ALL the players here even you sir. Your missing the point that I am trying to reach. Although I can understand the differences people here share on this topic, I dont expect everyone to get my point..but if its reached to just one person..it makes it all worth while. Rember also, what a person goes through in experience very much shapes their view on certain subjects..and heres mine...I started AH in early 06..with no flight sim experience I decided to try it out a bit and see what I think. When I decided to join the MA with a little training in the offline setting..I was ready to come out kick A*!. Fact is..took me a while just to keep in the air. Then something magical happened..a bright light surrounded the clipboard mission map and there was 30 guys going to the same place I was..wow fun..Ill join.Keeping it short..I was then trapped in this NOE/Horde bubble and the only way I was to get any satisfaction was to pumble some buildings with a 30mm, taking down hangers with lancs or whatever. was it fun?...of course!!!2 years go by..and here we are.Squad decides to do a tour ( BEST THING EVER FOR SQUADS BTW). In doing so we got a chance to meet up with some really great people. I also got to see alot of these guys that you love to hate and watching these guys in action was a very very humbling experience. What amazed me even more is the fact that they will help you out in way they can..NOW 2 years later Im back at square one being a newb all over again because this part of the game is a whole other world. When I see this..I see the fact that the 2 years should of been focused on fighting vs people rather than town buildings.NOE attacks are not "bad" or pase..are they excessive? YES. thats my conviction. Its a style of play that is coming dominate here in the MAs. The more they are glamorized..the worse the example your setting for the new guys. Would you rather be a footsoldier or would you like to be a member of the military elite?..why not shoot for gold but realize being in the elite takes ALOT of work and sacrafice
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holy huge paragraph...sorry guys
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It's like playing catch the flag.. And just obsessing about the flag. The flag is just one piece of the martial puzzle. You don't win the game by just getting your hands on the flag. You have to get there, and back, and that doesn't happen without both strategy and tactics. It's a false dichotomy that tactics or strategy (furballing or territorial warfare) are mutualy exclusive. The problem in AH is that players whittle each down to their extremes. And that the game's strat mechanics are pretty limited. A little more real estate complexity would help.
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Your missions were the best bye far Egg. :aok.
The best was climbing out with about 30 jugs 2-3 sectors away. Everyone is assigned a duty and everyone counted on everyone to pull through. What a sight when you start diving below the clouds to see a swarm of red cons climbing for alt Those type missions are both fun for attackers and defenders. Even if you take the base or not its a win/win situation for all.
Thanks, although many others involved in my missions come up with better ideas than mine. It's all for fun. All the other side has do is be vigilant.
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Again..Im not "demeaning" anyone here. Tons of respect go to ALL the players here even you sir. Your missing the point that I am trying to reach. Although I can understand the differences people here share on this topic, I dont expect everyone to get my point..but if its reached to just one person..it makes it all worth while. Rember also, what a person goes through in experience very much shapes their view on certain subjects..and heres mine...I started AH in early 06..with no flight sim experience I decided to try it out a bit and see what I think. When I decided to join the MA with a little training in the offline setting..I was ready to come out kick A*!. Fact is..took me a while just to keep in the air. Then something magical happened..a bright light surrounded the clipboard mission map and there was 30 guys going to the same place I was..wow fun..Ill join.Keeping it short..I was then trapped in this NOE/Horde bubble and the only way I was to get any satisfaction was to pumble some buildings with a 30mm, taking down hangers with lancs or whatever. was it fun?...of course!!!2 years go by..and here we are.Squad decides to do a tour ( BEST THING EVER FOR SQUADS BTW). In doing so we got a chance to meet up with some really great people. I also got to see alot of these guys that you love to hate and watching these guys in action was a very very humbling experience. What amazed me even more is the fact that they will help you out in way they can..NOW 2 years later Im back at square one being a newb all over again because this part of the game is a whole other world. When I see this..I see the fact that the 2 years should of been focused on fighting vs people rather than town buildings.NOE attacks are not "bad" or pase..are they excessive? YES. thats my conviction. Its a style of play that is coming dominate here in the MAs. The more they are glamorized..the worse the example your setting for the new guys. Would you rather be a footsoldier or would you like to be a member of the military elite?..why not shoot for gold but realize being in the elite takes ALOT of work and sacrafice
+1
You gotta ask yourself, if you come in contact with an enemy fighter in equal or better plane, are you confident you can win the fight? If you come in contact with a high bogey who dives on you, do you know how to bleed off his E, bait him for shots, kill him and leave him wondering wtf just happened? If you run into a good pilot, will you fight or will you run? Are you a Pwner or a pwnee?
Air combat maneuvers. Learn them. There are so many willing people to help you learn, all you gotta do is ask.
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Maybe some die hard land grabbers could explain their motives so I can better understand.
(http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/IJNA6M/Aces%20High/ywefly.png)
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Most are only too glad to help you. More fun to go up against a skilled pilot and have a good fight.
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moin
yesterday was a god example for a funny land grabbing aktion of my squad.
we started a big gv raid to a v-filed and take it, than we drive directly to the next v-fild and we take it nearly with out resitance.
than we drive to the third v-fild deep into the enemy teretory, and reched the map roome, but now we get resitance, we were not able to take this fild for 2 or 3 houers but we had alot of fun at this great gv fight. i lost 3 tigers there, but i loved it. it was nice to fight to fight against a enemy with motivation.
cu chris3
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GRIZZ!!! you joined the Jokers ? ? ? :rolleyes:
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GRIZZ!!! you joined the Jokers ? ? ? :rolleyes:
I'd rather play with myself.
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I am over it,,I dont post about why people furball,and then say how lame it is,and I dont come in and say certain parts of the game should be done away with just because It does not suit my needs anymore..
We need to come up with another term for "furballers". There are tons of people out there that the priority is not to win the war, but also dont wander aimlessly into furballs. But we will stick with it just for now.
FACT: As stated in another thread, which is spot on...the WTW types directly affect the fun the furballers type has, but the furballers fun does absolutley nothing to interfere with the "WTW" type players.
Tanktown map for example....We all know its taboo to take tank town feilds, so why are they still taken? When I was on bish (not picking on bish, it happens in Rookland too)...screams went out on country when we werent having any progress with the war winning efforts "GET OUT OF TANKTOWN". They felt they were "waisting" valuble resources wandering around in tanktown...so what happens...some idiot takes it.
Last week, I logged on early in the AM. Bish had one feild very deep inside our territory. I up a heavy fighter and see whats going on. Turns out that I see on 200 that both sides are using this as a staging area to fight eachother with. Could I of taken up a set of heavy bombers and level their hangers?..sure. Could I of just taken over a wirb and blasted the town?..yep
but why would I? To the WTW type guys, this feild would of been a stategic eyesoar. That feild wouldnt of lasted 3 minutes if it had been 5pm rather than 5am.
I could care less what the map looks like..I actually prefer when one country beats us back all the way to our 163 base..that means the horde is busy with the other country and I can do what I enjoy without being interfered with.
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I do alot of land grabbin....mostly hitting trees trying to steal Silat's kills as they fall. :D
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Ok here is my best attempt.
Junky said it well on page 1 i think.
But to address some other well placed "accusations" for lack of a better word.
1. Base taking is a way to win a war.
A. Base Taking is a way to change the complexion of the battlefield. This is important because if not you will just have the score dweebs at 30k over the frontline base doing their best Shawk impersonation. (Sorry Shawk could'nt think of another pickdweeb in short notice).
2. Base taking is FUN organizing and planning missions and the different ways to do it is challenging.
3. I have done a test the last 2 weeks and have run maybe 10 NOE missions all others have been at alt, no change in result just as many work as did'nt in the NOE fashion. So the whole NOE myth is just that. NOE gives u surprise yes but 4 spixteens can crush an NOE is minutes i know we have crushed many recently. The alt mission while it gives the enemy time to prepare it is by far the easier to accomplish.
4. It was stated in a few posts that "LandGrabbers" lack the skill to fight 1 v 1 and i beg to differ with you, I have always been willing and will continue to be available to DA anyone who thinks they are so good at this game, and btw i'm not the best or even close to it, but i will humble most of you that's for sure. Yes there are some guys in my squad who are not the fighter jocks but they are also Noobs in the grand scheme of things and one way for them to learn is to fly with more experienced pilots. And as with all things you must crawl before you walk and walk before you run.
5. Lets face it take 80% of the community when faced with a 1 v 1 with truly elite fighter jock loses. Now i have faced most out there and only a few come to mind as real good sticks, one that comes to mind is Dastrdly most enjoyable fights in the game. However i think most out there just living some sort of dream when it come's to their skills.
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I do alot of land grabbin....mostly hitting trees trying to steal Silat's kills as they fall. :D
At least those planes are easy to pickup on with all of the red high-heels sticking out of the plane. Just another SAPP HTC perk plane..P-38 with stiletto cannon.
:noid
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Ok here is my best attempt.
Junky said it well on page 1 i think.
But to address some other well placed "accusations" for lack of a better word.
1. Base taking is a way to win a war.
A. Base Taking is a way to change the complexion of the battlefield. This is important because if not you will just have the score dweebs at 30k over the frontline base doing their best Shawk impersonation. (Sorry Shawk could'nt think of another pickdweeb in short notice).
2. Base taking is FUN organizing and planning missions and the different ways to do it is challenging.
3. I have done a test the last 2 weeks and have run maybe 10 NOE missions all others have been at alt, no change in result just as many work as did'nt in the NOE fashion. So the whole NOE myth is just that. NOE gives u surprise yes but 4 spixteens can crush an NOE is minutes i know we have crushed many recently. The alt mission while it gives the enemy time to prepare it is by far the easier to accomplish.
4. It was stated in a few posts that "LandGrabbers" lack the skill to fight 1 v 1 and i beg to differ with you, I have always been willing and will continue to be available to DA anyone who thinks they are so good at this game, and btw i'm not the best or even close to it, but i will humble most of you that's for sure. Yes there are some guys in my squad who are not the fighter jocks but they are also Noobs in the grand scheme of things and one way for them to learn is to fly with more experienced pilots. And as with all things you must crawl before you walk and walk before you run.
5. Lets face it take 80% of the community when faced with a 1 v 1 with truly elite fighter jock loses. Now i have faced most out there and only a few come to mind as real good sticks, one that comes to mind is Dastrdly most enjoyable fights in the game. However i think most out there just living some sort of dream when it come's to their skills.
Well said I couldn't agree more :salute
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you know,after reading much of this,especially from Tralfazz,whom I do respect,actually saying that NOE's ANYWHERE is bad form makes me wonder where he was when he was running his missions,many NOE...So you have moved on Tral,thats cool,but why talk trash about those who still do the NOE's weather to a base with alot of people around or not??And then trash talk about the way they do them..
FWIW,it is usually not in a missions best interest to go WAYYYYYYYYYY back,north,south,east,and or west to capture some lonely base where someone will not be watching..Because what happens is,if the base does get captured,it will usually get decimated by the other countrys who's it was..So it really is a waste of time..One has to make sure that something is around to support a base capture,otherwise it is all for nought.
I just cannot believe that people actually get upset about missions.My word,tral wants the mission planner on the clipboard done away with,and probably so do some others and why???
Cause we want to have fun OUR way and not your way???Please guys,get over it already..
Remember "NATURE ABHORS A VACUUM"...As soon as someone stops running missions,and decides to get on the "FURBALL BANDWAGON"someone else will pop up in their place to fill the void...But I dont think it means that since you dont do it anymore,that you NOW have the right to try and de-mean someone into stopping what you now consider pase',and are too good for..
Falcon23 :salute
Falcon :salute
They can't do that! Then they'd have nothing to bellyache about! :rofl :rofl
ROX
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Look, I don't have a problem with players that lack skill. I don't have a problem with missions....high alt or noe. I don't have a problem with field captures or resets.
What I have a problem with is folks that AVOID combat to accomplish the above..by whatever means. Yeah, that includes the suicide monkey that will dive past me to race the last 10 miles to a field so he can drop a couple of bombs and shoot ack until he dies. As often as not, this weenie will kill the VH and ord at the field so that the field can only be remotely defended. Yeah, a viable real world tactic....makes for sucky game play though.
I have a problem with those that subscribe to the Machiavellian belief that the ends justify the means in the game. Many of them are the same people that will "manipulate" the scoring system so that they can get a high rank. Organizational skills and challenging in the same sentence? Oh well, I guess RL is so bad for some that this sort of thing is the only way they can justify their miserable existence.
BTW, if you are really interested in showing off your organizational skills and have a REAL challenge.....organize a scenario.
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4. It was stated in a few posts that "LandGrabbers" lack the skill to fight 1 v 1 and i beg to differ with you, I have always been willing and will continue to be available to DA anyone who thinks they are so good at this game, and btw i'm not the best or even close to it, but i will humble most of you that's for sure. Yes there are some guys in my squad who are not the fighter jocks but they are also Noobs in the grand scheme of things and one way for them to learn is to fly with more experienced pilots. And as with all things you must crawl before you walk and walk before you run.
The majority of fulltime landgrabbers suck. Like 99%. You are an exception to the rule. See the thing is, once you immerse yourself into 1v1 combat, there's no turning back. You never hear any pilots say, "I used to be one of the best sticks in the game but I just got tired of it and decided to start taking bases full time." :rofl I can confidently say that if you weren't a CO of a big squad, you would be getting your nose dirty all the time not worrying about winning the war.
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Maybe a way to please all is to limit which types of planes can be flown (initially) from certain bases. For example, bombers would only be able to fly out of bases deep in their own territory, while fighters and attack planes could be stationed close to the front lines. If a bomber lands at a front line base then it can take off from that base provided it rearms on the rearm pad.Have gv spawns only from vbases so a little more defense would be required from the squad that needs that vbase for their attack. I think it would neutralize the hordes that everyone seems to despise. Squads would have to also consider flying back into their own territory in order to defend bombers that are in the air for some time exposed to long range bomber intercept from the enemy. I think that it would improve the planning aspects that the land grabbing squads seem to like and offering the guy that doesn't like the base taking thing who just likes the fight a chance to enjoy just fighting without the overwhelming numbers disadvantage. It would make the game play more like WW2.
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Maybe a way to please all is to limit which types of planes can be flown (initially) from certain bases. For example, bombers would only be able to fly out of bases deep in their own territory, while fighters and attack planes could be stationed close to the front lines. yaknoww......that's actually a reall good idea. it could be taken a step farther to allow specific planes at specific bases. If a bomber lands at a front line base then it can take off from that base provided it rearms on the rearm pad.Have gv spawns only from vbases so a little more defense would be required from the squad that needs that vbase for their attack. I think it would neutralize the hordes that everyone seems to despise. Squads would have to also consider flying back into their own territory in order to defend bombers that are in the air for some time exposed to long range bomber intercept from the enemy. I think that it would improve the planning aspects that the land grabbing squads seem to like and offering the guy that doesn't like the base taking thing who just likes the fight a chance to enjoy just fighting without the overwhelming numbers disadvantage. It would make the game play more like WW2.
some good ideas dude........
but to me, as i've said before, landgrabbing spawns fights. there's almost always a fight around an attempted base capture.
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So did Grizz441 say I suck.....He states " The majority of land grabbers suck ....like 99%"
999000
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I have a question for land grabbers and my intent isn't to judge your game play but merely understand your motives for it. I'm just curious what motivates you to capture bases and try to win the war. On these gigantic maps you can barely put a dent into any sides actual base numbers. And after your efforts, you log off and go to sleep. When you log back on the next day usually the map is entirely different than how you left it. I'm also curious how many "War Victories" are actually achieved monthly on the large maps and if getting booted from an arena is really an award that makes it worth doing.
I've done the land grab thing before and it was definitely fun but I lost interest in it realllly quick because I finally just asked myself, why am I trying to capture this base? What is this really going to accomplish? What's the point?
Grizz, I was a "win the war" guy from the beginning. Started playing in 2002 + or -. I've not out grown it, and during my last stint of flying, I too began asking myself the same question. The bigger maps had not come out.
Back when, there were not separate arenas. No big maps. Then some bigger maps and no separate arenas. Winning, at least to me, was what a game is all about. Of course, passing the time happily has a part too.
Then came unporkable fuel, more ack, more barracks, reset rules change, uncapturable bases, etc.
The game is definitely geared towards point and shoot now.
And I gather that's been a successful move for HTC. So, and I'm guessing, the changes have been the right move as a business decision.
From what I've read on the BBS lately, there's now some (maybe a very vocal and very minor minority) who feel the same way when it comes to air to air combat.
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some good ideas dude........
but to me, as i've said before, landgrabbing spawns fights. there's almost always a fight around an attempted base capture.
4 engined buffs = large fields only
All others, from any field.
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4 engined buffs = large fields only
all others from any field.
I say
4 engine - large
Medium 2 engine bombers - medium
Light 1 or 2 engine bombers - small
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My beef is that most (nearly all) of the missions I run into show little or no ACM when forced to fight. They break in and toss the furniture but can't put up a fistfight if you make it downstairs in time to catch em. This is a calamity ESPECIALY given that their leaders have enough leverage on them to guide them to whatever means (topical websites, trainers, unofficial tutors, etc) available to push them further up the air COMBAT learning curve, and with some luck get them onto the self-sufficient learning phase.
I love running my D9 into a mission. It's like omfg free beef. Usually I'd walk away w/ 5-6 kills in 3-5min and disengage to head out for safety. I love all aspect of it though. I enjoy furball, land grabbing, bnz, 1 v 1. It just depend on my mood when I log in that day. (like right my account is inactive because i'm not in the mood for AHII =D but i'll come back eventually once i'm not bored of it)
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I say
4 engine - large
Medium 2 engine bombers - medium
Light 1 or 2 engine bombers - small
how long are our runways on the small fields?
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I say
4 engine - large
Medium 2 engine bombers - medium
Light 1 or 2 engine bombers - small
hmm that is not bad either.
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All MA runways are one mile, regardless of base size.
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The ideas regarding base size and airplane availability is garbage.
Why? Because I don't want to have to fly 4 sectors or more just to drop some hanagars. The maps would have to be redesigned.
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grizz441.....Bombers and land grabbin is not the problem ......The only REAL problem this game has ever had is from people like yourself, who try to tell the rest of us how to play our game....end of story.
999000
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The ideas regarding base size and airplane availability is garbage.
Why? Because I don't want to have to fly 4 sectors or more just to drop some hanagars. The maps would have to be redesigned.
I don't want to hop my 163 from the back base...enable it at all bases.
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grizz441.....Bombers and land grabbin is not the problem ......The only REAL problem this game has ever had is from people like yourself, who try to tell the rest of us how to play our game....end of story.
999000
You should play the game like everyone else. Without external view enabled during trigger presses.
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All MA runways are one mile, regardless of base size.
so.....just under 5300ft long...........
that in mind, i like BP's idea, modified like banshee(i think) suggested.would work nicely.
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The ideas regarding base size and airplane availability is garbage.
Why? Because I don't want to have to fly 4 sectors or more just to drop some hanagars. The maps would have to be redesigned.
i don't wanna be unable to fly because some lazy tard that only flew 5 miles dropped my hangars.
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so.....just under 5300ft long...........
that in mind, i like BP's idea, modified like banshee(i think) suggested.would work nicely.
Bronk's edited by me :)
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The ideas regarding base size and airplane availability is garbage.
Why? Because I don't want to have to fly 4 sectors or more just to drop some hanagars. The maps would have to be redesigned.
So, you would rather up Lancs, 25 miles (1 sector) away from target, and Bomb them while flying through the enemy base's ack, or dive bombing the hangars in Lancs?
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i don't wanna be unable to fly because some lazy tard that only flew 5 miles dropped my hangars.
What if the lazy tard didn't need altitude to drop your hangars. You have to remember that my bomber gunning skills are comparable to your infatuation with beenie babies.
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What if the lazy tard didn't need altitude to drop your hangars. You have to remember that my bomber gunning skills are comparable to your infatuation with beenie babies.
Your bait sucks...I reccommend stink bait
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Your bait sucks...I reccommend stink bait
It was a joke.
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My point
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Your bait sucks...I reccommend stink bait
+1
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+1
+2
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grizz441.....Bombers and land grabbin is not the problem ......The only REAL problem this game has ever had is from people like yourself, who try to tell the rest of us how to play our game....end of story.
999000
Whoa, I didn't realize I attacked you personally 999000, but if you want to really go there...
I never told anyone how to play the game, and cmon lets get serious when I say 'suck' I am referring to fighting one versus one. If you take my general insult 'suck' and somehow think I just said "999000 you are a sucky bomber" then you are way off.
Pilots never go from learning acm, getting good at it, seeing the successes from their practice, then abandoning it to landgrab full time and WTW. It just doesn't happen. It happens the other way around all the time though, just read some of the posts in this thread about it. So maybe, just maybe, us 'furballers' as some like to label us as are on to something? So when I say 99% of landgrabbers suck, I'm referring to their ability to fight themselves out of a wet paper bag in a fighter if they find themselves in such a rare situation where they are alone and the nme is closing in. Never told you how to play the game, I'm just stating the obvious.
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+2
:rofl
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It's been my experience that most land grabbers will mix it up with anyone and throw caution to the wind. They are what makes the game exciting in my opinion. So I guess I'm not sure what you mean Grizz when you say that they suck. Suck is such a subjective word. Frankly I think it's actually slang. Now I'm going to warn you that if you do define it you will probably be inundated with sarcastic remarks. Good luck there.
9s, I may pay the knights a visit next week. It would be an honor if I could wing with ya in buffs. :salute Oh, I will die poorly.
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Look, I don't have a problem with players that lack skill. I don't have a problem with missions....high alt or noe. I don't have a problem with field captures or resets.
What I have a problem with is folks that AVOID combat to accomplish the above..by whatever means. Yeah, that includes the suicide monkey that will dive past me to race the last 10 miles to a field so he can drop a couple of bombs and shoot ack until he dies. As often as not, this weenie will kill the VH and ord at the field so that the field can only be remotely defended. Yeah, a viable real world tactic....makes for sucky game play though...
Well said.
Regards,
Hammer
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It's been my experience that most land grabbers will mix it up with anyone and throw caution to the wind. They are what makes the game exciting in my opinion. So I guess I'm not sure what you mean Grizz when you say that they suck. Suck is such a subjective word. Frankly I think it's actually slang. Now I'm going to warn you that if you do define it you will probably be inundated with sarcastic remarks. Good luck there.
9s, I may pay the knights a visit next week. It would be an honor if I could wing with ya in buffs. :salute Oh, I will die poorly.
I did define it, check my last post.
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Look, I don't have a problem with players that lack skill. I don't have a problem with missions....high alt or noe. I don't have a problem with field captures or resets.
What I have a problem with is folks that AVOID combat to accomplish the above..by whatever means. Yeah, that includes the suicide monkey that will dive past me to race the last 10 miles to a field so he can drop a couple of bombs and shoot ack until he dies. As often as not, this weenie will kill the VH and ord at the field so that the field can only be remotely defended. Yeah, a viable real world tactic....makes for sucky game play though.
I have a problem with those that subscribe to the Machiavellian belief that the ends justify the means in the game. Many of them are the same people that will "manipulate" the scoring system so that they can get a high rank. Organizational skills and challenging in the same sentence? Oh well, I guess RL is so bad for some that this sort of thing is the only way they can justify their miserable existence.
BTW, if you are really interested in showing off your organizational skills and have a REAL challenge.....organize a scenario.
<<<<<<<<<<<doesn't ever fly anythign fast enough to run away. :rofl
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You should play the game like everyone else. Without external view enabled during trigger presses.
Moot, IMO, of all stuff that has been done in AHII to try to make flying unescorted buffs around viable (for whatever reason), the external view is the least of us. The fact that they get to fire from a platform with field-gun like steadieness is much worse, for instance.
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<<<<<<<<<<<doesn't ever fly anythign fast enough to run away. :rofl
LIAR!!! You just run REEEEEALY slow. :devil
BTW, just made the perfect film of what I'm talking about. Higher F6 dives as soon as he sees my lower P47. Dives past me to rocket the ord at a field. Dies shortly after he gets the 2nd ord bunker with his rockets. Now THAT's what passes for skill these days. Pathetic. :frown:
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LIAR!!! You just run REEEEEALY slow. :devil
BTW, just made the perfect film of what I'm talking about. Higher F6 dives as soon as he sees my lower P47. Dives past me to rocket the ord at a field. Dies shortly after he gets the 2nd ord bunker with his rockets. Now THAT's what passes for skill these days. Pathetic. :frown:
:rofl :rofl
i hate when they do that.......the diving thing i mean.
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They really need to increase the number of ordinance bunkers, or harden them. Right now they are some of the softest targets next to field ack.
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Moot, IMO, of all stuff that has been done in AHII to try to make flying unescorted buffs around viable (for whatever reason), the external view is the least of us. The fact that they get to fire from a platform with field-gun like steadieness is much worse, for instance.
All of those aspects would be better off more realistic, but lack of air turbulence requires relatively lots of coad. Gun shake and forced external view toggle on trigger press don't..
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LIAR!!! You just run REEEEEALY slow. :devil
BTW, just made the perfect film of what I'm talking about. Higher F6 dives as soon as he sees my lower P47. Dives past me to rocket the ord at a field. Dies shortly after he gets the 2nd ord bunker with his rockets. Now THAT's what passes for skill these days. Pathetic. :frown:
Now hear me out on this one. He set out to kill ords....done. You set out to kill him.....done (sorta, he killed himself). But who's not to say that he had the intention of living through that little rocket run and would gladly come and fight you. I've done it plenty before. Yes, I have gone into a field with others 99% of the time, with the intention of shutting it down. Now, why should I abandon my primary mission and objective to fight you first? The guy behind me coming in to do whatever his job is counts on me to do mine and then mix it up. Why shouldn't I proceed to my target, drop my ords and then fight you? If I fight you with them, depending on the plane matchup, I'll definitely lose. If I drop my ords just to fight you, well there goes what I set out to do out of the window. Sometimes flying one of those screaming fighters with a little ordinance through ack and a group of fighters defending their base is quite fun and exciting to see if you can make it through. It's almost like a different kind of furball for guys flying jabo missions.
Seeing all of these same themed threads, I think I'll post one in the Wishlist to have one arena where bombers (heavy) and gv's are disabled as well as all structures are indestructable with no field ack to steal your kill on the guy diving on your field so all of the "furballers" will have a place where they don't have to worry about the WTW types porking their bases or avoiding fights. But we can't disable ordinance in there for the guys that want to use their point and shoot "missiles".
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You have to remember that my bomber gunning skills are comparable to your infatuation with beenie babies.
Non-existant? :lol
I seem to remember seeing a great screenshot of you talking crap to someone on 200 and he proceeded to take out your whole set of bombers... :noid
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The majority of fulltime landgrabbers suck. Like 99%. You are an exception to the rule. See the thing is, once you immerse yourself into 1v1 combat, there's no turning back. You never hear any pilots say, "I used to be one of the best sticks in the game but I just got tired of it and decided to start taking bases full time." :rofl I can confidently say that if you weren't a CO of a big squad, you would be getting your nose dirty all the time not worrying about winning the war.
Here's the thing Grizz i do go out and fight by myself quite often and yes it is fun however not something i could do all the time.
I prefer the thinking and Strategy as opposed to single 1 v1 combat, yes it is fun, but my whole existence on this game could not be about that.
I have no problem with you furballers out there. I enjoy immensely the fights the gettting owned and owning that goes on, i just could never give someone crap because they don't play my way.
Example the "Pony Dweeb" the one i have the most contempt for. But at the end of the day it's his 15 bucks and if it's so important to him to never engage and pick all day so be it.
I say play and let play my fun is hangin with my squadies a real good group of guys we enjoy all aspects of the game GV'ing bombing capturing and Furballing. not the best at any 1 but competent at all and that makes it fun.
So i say to all you out there maybe tolerance would be something you should all practice, for the game would'nt be better if it changed we need all aspects to make it what it is.
:rock :salute
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Non-existant? :lol
I seem to remember seeing a great screenshot of you talking crap to someone on 200 and he proceeded to take out your whole set of bombers... :noid
He was talking crap to me all night too, and IIRC the score against his bombers was TJ-8, TwentyFo-0
And my favorite..
(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2007/ahss17ut6.png)
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He was talking crap to me all night too, and IIRC the score against his bombers was TJ-8, TwentyFo-0
And my favorite..
(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2007/ahss17ut6.png)
lol...... I meant to say that I'm the 2nd best bomber gunner.
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Here's the thing Grizz i do go out and fight by myself quite often and yes it is fun however not something i could do all the time.
I prefer the thinking and Strategy as opposed to single 1 v1 combat, yes it is fun, but my whole existence on this game could not be about that.
I have no problem with you furballers out there. I enjoy immensely the fights the gettting owned and owning that goes on, i just could never give someone crap because they don't play my way.
Example the "Pony Dweeb" the one i have the most contempt for. But at the end of the day it's his 15 bucks and if it's so important to him to never engage and pick all day so be it.
I say play and let play my fun is hangin with my squadies a real good group of guys we enjoy all aspects of the game GV'ing bombing capturing and Furballing. not the best at any 1 but competent at all and that makes it fun.
So i say to all you out there maybe tolerance would be something you should all practice, for the game would'nt be better if it changed we need all aspects to make it what it is.
:rock :salute
Ditto. I would consider my self more of land grabber than anything else. However, that can get old. So a couple of days ago I went out on a fighter sweep by myself. Got into 3 different 1 vs 1s and came out on top in all 3. I have the film. Granted that is unusual for me. Still though, It was fun fun fun. I can't do that all the time. There is just way too much to do in the game. I like to GV, jabo, capture and defend bases. Every now and then I enjoy a good bomb run.
Let me add that if all of one country furballed you'd be down to 3 bases in short order. And if all everyone did was furball then you would only need 3 uncapturable bases. If I recall wasn't there a post about an online flight sim that only had furballing and now they no longer exist.
Addendum: I played a first person shooter game online for all of 30 seconds. As soon as you spawned in you were dead. Like 10 people just waiting for you to spawn. No strategy at all. That is what would happen if we only had a furball game.
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I agree with you guys.This game would be lame really fast with only one aspect played.I may suck at air combat but I play all of it and that what holds my interest.I have had great fights defending and going for captures.It is really rewarding to get a capture with a good defense going on.If ya just wanna furball that is fine-it is your money but you are missing out on alot of good gameplay.There is nothing more fun that getting together with my squad an planning a good strategy to capture a field.Or we find a big dar and go for a fighter sweep.There has been a many of fun fights at a spawn war with wet,wonder rondar dr7 and other great tankers
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He was talking crap to me all night too, and IIRC the score against his bombers was TJ-8, TwentyFo-0
And my favorite..
(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2007/ahss17ut6.png)
:rofl Being the best buff gunner in the game is like admiting you wear speedo's at the beach. Nobody cares about the package your sportin cause we all know it's a pair of socks.
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:rofl Being the best buff gunner in the game is like admiting you wear speedo's at the beach. Nobody cares about the package your sportin cause we all know it's a pair of socks.
That was the point BigPlay.
Most people here don't seem to get jokes even if it slapped them in the face. I think it is hilarious that someone (ME) would claim to be 2nd best at anything.
Once again....to the AH community lighten up. You guys take this game far too seriously. It's a game and don't be so uptight. The notion of honor in any video game is comical. I just try to have fun.
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Let me add that if all of one country furballed you'd be down to 3 bases in short order. And if all everyone did was furball then you would only need 3 uncapturable bases.
Nothing wrong with that. Don't need but one base. Lot of fun fighting in fighters.
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That was the point BigPlay.
Most people here don't seem to get jokes even if it slapped them in the face. I think it is hilarious that someone (ME) would claim to be 2nd best at anything.
Once again....to the AH community lighten up. You guys take this game far too seriously. It's a game and don't be so uptight. The notion of honor in any video game is comical. I just try to have fun.
:rofl I totally agree. Way too many serious folks in here. I almost get as much fun outta ruffling some of these guys feathers then I do playin the game.
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Nothing wrong with that. Don't need but one base. Lot of fun fighting in fighters.
You can go to DA for that.
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No you can't.
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The notion of honor in any video game is comical. I just try to have fun.
That your idea of fun is trolling around and generally acting like a doof speaks volumes about you in any case...you reap what you sow.
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sounds like someone is in the wrong sqaud or does'nt want anyone to know how they really are huh BP :rofl
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Now hear me out on this one. He set out to kill ords....done. You set out to kill him.....done (sorta, he killed himself). But who's not to say that he had the intention of living through that little rocket run and would gladly come and fight you. I've done it plenty before. Yes, I have gone into a field with others 99% of the time, with the intention of shutting it down. Now, why should I abandon my primary mission and objective to fight you first? The guy behind me coming in to do whatever his job is counts on me to do mine and then mix it up. Why shouldn't I proceed to my target, drop my ords and then fight you? If I fight you with them, depending on the plane matchup, I'll definitely lose. If I drop my ords just to fight you, well there goes what I set out to do out of the window. Sometimes flying one of those screaming fighters with a little ordinance through ack and a group of fighters defending their base is quite fun and exciting to see if you can make it through. It's almost like a different kind of furball for guys flying jabo missions.
Well, I'm here to say he didn't plan on surviving his bomb run. There was no guy coming behind him. I had to log, but, SOP with this kind of thing is to come back and do the vh (ord stay down longer than hangers). Then the attack could begin. BTW, very few players here could survive giving their 6 to an enemy.
The above being said, how do you figure you will toss 3 aces out of your hand and still win the hand? This guy dove from ABOVE me...not below and I see it all of the time. Its shows why I believe the win the war crap is just that...there is no penalty for dying in the MA. Just rinse and repeat until you get the result you want. Heck, I have seen squads use this tactic to win resets. My point is that the whole focus of the MA game has gone haywire. It really is disheartening. :frown:
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The notion of honor in any video game is comical. I just try to have fun.
...spoken like a pre-teen.
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many kids today have no idea of honor. It is just something they read in the history books.
They always seem surprised when you say something about their family being one way or another. They don't realize since we do not know their family, that they, by their actions, are all we have to base their family type on.
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Yes Shuff....I've seen any number of teens come through with that "this isn't real so it doesn't matter" 'tude. Only to find that there really are people on the other end that just might have an impact on their future.
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many kids today have no idea of honor. It is just something they read in the history books.
They always seem surprised when you say something about their family being one way or another. They don't realize since we do not know their family, that they, by their actions, are all we have to base their family type on.
I've had video games in my life since I was practically born. I've had NES, SNES, N64, 3DO, PS1, and PS2. I've battled my friends in games like Madden and Golden Eye, and let me tell you those matches were grudge matches. We cuss at each other and call each other names, and rub it in when someone wins. At the end of the day my friends are my friends....we are still friends. That's the only style I know. That was the video game culture I grew up in.
So when people talk about honor in video games, I just laugh. When I compete in the sky it is super hard for me to be respectful to the enemy. When I lose a fight it is hard as hell for me to salute them. In game, I HATE the enemy. I try my hardest to accept the video game culture that most of you participate in, but it's really hard. Maybe I'll change, you never know.
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large volumes
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nb i know want your taking about. in midwar there's certain guys that use the same planes to do exactly what your describing. im to the point now i just ignore them and keep doing what im doing. and you know in a few minutes thats the next target to be attacked.and the funny thing is on tuesdays the people that do this dont show up. there's could be only 1 reason. i think because of TT a lot of LW guys show up .and by the way MW was a good time last nite
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I wanted to make a point in the spying thread that directly related to this topic...but it got locked so hate me now for posting here.
The battllecry thats yelled in response to why people have taken to the concept of winning the war as fast as possible is " we use the tools given to us by HTC and play within the parameters of the game". I take that as " HTC gives us the tools to form this huge #s missions so we are going to use them and use them to our advantage"
Great!! you guys have fun doing what your doing..I can respect that. I know you guys are very competitive its a part of the game that some like and some hate.
Now..whats there to stop me from using the same tools that HTC gives me and exploiting the same advantage that makes your "fun" well FUN?
My mouth would be watering on the day that I decide to up a tempest and stumble across a NOE mission with 30+ cons when I have the alt/speed advantage. (given Id probably auger).
Why on earth wouldnt I do it the easy way and have some dweeb in your country spot these missions for me so I can have FUN shooting you guys down?
Why? because even though I hate getting ganged by 20 niks/110s, I still have respect that its YOUR fun I dont want to ruin. Im not preaching that I want to ruin your fun. Im just stating an oppinion that this type play is in my mind excessive and wayyy overused and dominating the overall gameplay. Mix it up a bit guys. I was in LW blue last weekend and it was comical..3 bases at the same time got horded with the NOE attack..doesnt it get boring?
Joker..I know some of you guys had it out with some of our guys the other day..throw out any misconceptions that there is hard feelings amongst us. You guys put up a great fight and we respect that..its what makes the game fun :aok
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I never told anyone how to play the game. It's just frustrating that in an aerial combat game in a given night in the MA you might find one good fight. The only way to get a challenge anymore is to put yourself in situations where you are going to get ganged by dweebs and hopefully kill them all. This is why so many vets leave the game. I did get one good fight last night though: Was fighting an F4U in a K4 and the fight didn't dissolve into a sustained one and a half minute flat turn nor did is dissolve into him running to allies. It was almost as if both pilots knew what they were doing and thought they could win the fight. Of course, it was A8Grind ( :salute ), who will never pass on a fight which probably has a lot to do with why he is a good stick. They should really just change the front picture of HTC.com to a P51 dive bombing a fighter hangar from a suicidal angle since winning the war seems to be top priority nowadays.
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grizz441, Am I missing something here??? Sounds Like you would enjoy smaller 1X1 furball type action right? It seems Hitech has provided the structure for this type of fun in many ways ... While as I type this there maybe close to 400 in the large MA......However couldn't you find what you want in the Early war arena(14), Midwar (28),Axis verses Allies(4) or as some have said the dueling arena????(47)
<S>999000..and yes you are implying that we should play the game your way.
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Getback sorry been a bit busy ........ it would be an honor to fly with you Sir!
<S> 999000
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grizz441, Am I missing something here??? Sounds Like you would enjoy smaller 1X1 furball type action right? It seems Hitech has provided the structure for this type of fun in many ways ... While as I type this there maybe close to 400 in the large MA......However couldn't you find what you want in the Early war arena(14), Midwar (28),Axis verses Allies(4) or as some have said the dueling arena????(47)
<S>999000..and yes you are implying that we should play the game your way.
No, EW MW are worse than LW for landgrabbing believe it or not. I am in the DA quite a bit. AvA I need to check out more often. As for MA game play, it is good fun some nights have it be a furball or GVing. I never implied anything, play the game your way, whatever motivates you. Just saying... :noid
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grizz441, Am I missing something here???
acm.
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trying to explain the value of acm and the fun of actually furballing and/or fighting to some people is a moot point :rofl
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I've had video games in my life since I was practically born. I've had NES, SNES, N64, 3DO, PS1, and PS2. I've battled my friends in games like Madden and Golden Eye, and let me tell you those matches were grudge matches. We cuss at each other and call each other names, and rub it in when someone wins. At the end of the day my friends are my friends....we are still friends. That's the only style I know. That was the video game culture I grew up in.
So when people talk about honor in video games, I just laugh. When I compete in the sky it is super hard for me to be respectful to the enemy. When I lose a fight it is hard as hell for me to salute them. In game, I HATE the enemy. I try my hardest to accept the video game culture that most of you participate in, but it's really hard. Maybe I'll change, you never know.
quite often, the way someone carrys themself in something like a game....any game, be it baseball, football, soccer, bowling, or these video games.........accurately reflects the real person.
you'll learn this someday when you grow up, since it sounds as if you don't get out much.
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No, EW MW are worse than LW for landgrabbing believe it or not.
Then you missed one tonite. MW. Baltic. 41,44 & 45 each held by different country. Marvelous fun for a couple of hours. Lots fought, killed, died and saluted (I tried not to whine too much :)). One of those "magic moment" things. :D
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Then you missed one tonite. MW. Baltic. 41,44 & 45 each held by different country. Marvelous fun for a couple of hours. Lots fought, killed, died and saluted (I tried not to whine too much :)). One of those "magic moment" things. :D
cc, I know MW has good fights sometimes. EW is rare though. Sea2 last night was awesome.
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Thanks for the compliment Grizz. :salute Fights like that are very rare (the last one I was in like that was with Gixer a couple weeks ago and I had to PM him to set it up). I actually switched to Knights last night to make that happen. I saw in the roster that the muppets were Bish at that time and figured out by looking at the map and reading the chatter on 200 you guys were fighting the Knights. So off I went. My first sortie up was against you, I upped again and flew all the way to the Bish base only to find the FHs down. Then it was off to the DA.... That was a lot of fun!
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quite often, the way someone carrys themself in something like a game....any game, be it baseball, football, soccer, bowling, or these video games.........accurately reflects the real person.
you'll learn this someday when you grow up, since it sounds as if you don't get out much.
Relax Cap, If you have been around Twentyfo, you can realize what his personality. He gives quit a bit of humor to what is sometimes a bit of an uptight enviroment. His head would of been on the chopping block a long time ago with the squad when he has this habbit of finding the most obnoxious squeaker in the game..invites him to our vox...and leaves to go to work. You wanna kill him..but I promise you will always laugh about it later.
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MW was a good time last night :salute to all who was there last night
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Did not see you. Were you up north?
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dont know how hard your blender was working.but i was at 45 ,44 area i shot you down :P
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Did not see you. Were you up north?
He was the low <cough cough> gurlicane. :D
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no was flying the fm2 then
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He was the low <cough cough> gurlicane. :D
Thought it was a HOicane?
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no HOicane when i fly it
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no HOicane when i fly it
Didn't say it was :) Just a broad general statement
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The battllecry thats yelled in response to why people have taken to the concept of winning the war as fast as possible is " we use the tools given to us by HTC and play within the parameters of the game". I take that as " HTC gives us the tools to form this huge #s missions so we are going to use them and use them to our advantage"
Great!! you guys have fun doing what your doing..I can respect that. I know you guys are very competitive its a part of the game that some like and some hate.
Now..whats there to stop me from using the same tools that HTC gives me and exploiting the same advantage that makes your "fun" well FUN?
I think you are failing to distinguish the game from the meta-game. Switching sides to spy is along the same lines as buying and selling online RPG assets on E-bay, or bribing (with RL money) players on the other side to screw things up for their side or be easy meat for score padding. None of these things is exactly immoral, and all of them use the tools given by the game designer, but they all defeat the purpose of amateur competition in a game in a way that no style of play or form of competition within the game (vulching, picking, huge NOE missions that flee from any resistance, or whatever) can possibly do.
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I think you are failing to distinguish the game from the meta-game. Switching sides to spy is along the same lines as buying and selling online RPG assets on E-bay, or bribing (with RL money) players on the other side to screw things up for their side or be easy meat for score padding. None of these things is exactly immoral, and all of them use the tools given by the game designer, but they all defeat the purpose of amateur competition in a game in a way that no style of play or form of competition within the game (vulching, picking, huge NOE missions that flee from any resistance, or whatever) can possibly do.
And how may I ask is the 30+ mission coming to pile drive an undefended base any form of "competition"? At most your given 1 minute to end your sortie, choose your ride and gain any sort of alt. At best as defenders will get would be 6 to 1 odds on average.
but yet...these guys have no choice but to sit down and shut up.
IMO...both are "weenie tactics" and there is no distinguashable characteristics between them which is why you wont find me doing either. Just dont expect any sympathy from me when these missions get busted by those who choose to take this course. :salute
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last night the pigs went on a fighter sweep.A8 was being attacked and had plenty of uppers and junky went on 200 and told them the pigs were on the way.What did we get but numerous remarks about hoing and vulching.We did have a fun fight though
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last night the pigs went on a fighter sweep.A8 was being attacked and had plenty of uppers and junky went on 200 and told them the pigs were on the way.What did we get but numerous remarks about hoing and vulching.We did have a fun fight though
Is it true Pigs have a 'no-vulching' policy? One of yall said that, not sure was it in jest though, admirable if true. (Logged at 1-ish est, don't think A8 ever fell :D)
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It is not official but majority wont unless provoked-I am a really lousy pilot but will fight honorably.I know it is a game but I want what little kills I get done fairly trying to use real world ACM as most of us do.Ya know you hear alot of whining about hoing on the boards and go out and what happens-ya run into ho tards.
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you can get a good feel of the outcome of a fight on first merge. Try to avoid the HO as much as possible and there would be less whining about it
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And how may I ask is the 30+ mission coming to pile drive an undefended base any form of "competition"? At most your given 1 minute to end your sortie, choose your ride and gain any sort of alt. At best as defenders will get would be 6 to 1 odds on average.
It's competition just like anything else, in that the person doing it has set a goal and is trying to achieve it. No different than vulching, picking, kill stealing, score padding, and everything else people complain about. I'm not saying these are ideal behaviors, but they are ways of trying to do well, as some might define "well", within the framework of the game. They may be playing dirty, but they are playing.
IMO...both are "weenie tactics" and there is no distinguashable characteristics between them
But that's just it... one is a game tactic and one isn't. Switching sides in order to spy is going outside the framework of the game, just like bribery, software hacks, or anything else in real life one might do to sabotage another player from hacking his computer to having a friend phone him and tell him his house is on fire. It's not about whether it's poorer sportsmanship or less honorable (although I think it is both), it's about maintaining the integrity (in the logical sense of the word, not the ethical) or internal consistency of the game's frame of reference. Spying makes no sense inside the game's internal world, it only makes sense if you bring loyalties and motives from outside that world into it - rather like having a bridge partner who keeps sabotaging your mutual play in order to curry favor with one of your opponents.
It's also incompatible with the idea of AH2 being anything even remotely resembling a sim. All the disfavored styles of play I mentioned above are things that could be done and were done by WW2 pilots. The mechanics of base capture were of course extremely different, but it was a military aim and good generals and admirals did it where they thought they would have the biggest advantage, not where the fight would be the most fair for the enemy. Pilots switching sides to gain or give any sort of advantage is, by contrast, utterly absurd on its face.
Finally, it's a betrayal of the people you're supposedly fighting alongside. Base stealing isn't dishonest, spying is. The latter point is why it rubs me the wrong way in a manner that no dishonorable tactic could. There's nothing worse than betraying your teammates. :frown: