Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Anaxogoras on February 23, 2009, 10:59:12 AM
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Last night above 214:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3649/3303318429_9429a3500e_o.png)
Screen shot taken after these guys finished competing for one low bandit.
You hear a lot complaints about fight quality these days in Aces High. Too many players will only fight when they outnumber the enemy, take head-on shots as a matter of course, run away, and just generally suck. Apparently, the game degraded to this state of affairs long before I arrived, but there used to be a "happy time" (to borrow the apt phrase) when people sought out fights with better pilots to learn something, didn't gang (as much), didn't fly Typhoons just for the sake of front quarter shots, etc.
If the above is true, then it was probably only true when AH was still very small and you knew all the people you were fighting. Warbirds was a small venue, and I remember the same complaints that you hear now about Aces High. The scarcity of good fights was one of my motivations for a long break from online flight sims; I remember the frustration. After years away from the genre, I come back and have fun. Recently, I sometimes find myself frustrated with what I can find in the arena, and I've only been back at it since November '07, though my learning curve was mostly a de-rusting process (last night was a fun exception, and FSO always holds my interest). Too much flight time is partly responsible for that, but I'm pretty sure there is a psychological change that a virtual pilot undergoes after so many kills and so many deaths. What was fun previously becomes tiresome.
I'm confident that a lot of you would say that the fights are worse now than they were in, say, 2006. And last year a lot of you would've said the fights were worse than they were in 2005. I hate to break it to ya, but it's most likely you. You have improved and are no longer satiated with easy kills. You no longer shrug off getting ganged because you were able to get one or two before you died: a good challenge is neither too easy nor impossible to overcome. It's high time you start looking for fun in places you haven't looked before. Recently I've had the pleasure to get clobbered by the likes of m00t and battfinkv in the DA, and it was fun. :) If you know there are some people you like to fight in the arena, invite them to start a battle in a less populated area, or start a 2vs2 in the DA. Take a look at yourself and how much you've changed and improved over the years. The fights are probably the same, but you are not. :salute
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At the end of a good day in AH our squad switches to GVs or furballing defense of fields and when I see conga lines forming I usually start feeling my age and go to bed. :salute
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come to MW the fights are more personal and ther is far less gangbanging
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Man, I know how that 87 feels - I keep diving into a mass of red lol.........
You may have a point actually Gav, then again, what the hell do I know, I'm just here to provide easy kills :D
Wurzel
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Anaxogoras,
Although my time in AH is less than 5yrs and I've recently came back from a short break, I'd be more than happy to meet up with you for some fights. I may not be that good but I still enjoy a good fight, or trying to be a good fight.
Just look me up some night,
Sincerely,
Coprhead
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It all has to do with arena size. Back in the day with less people you knew who you were fighting, and anyone who flew like a tard was generally called out and shamed for it. I think that is what is missing these days, arenas get too big and the self policing by the community is hampered by the fact that sissies can hide in the crowd and get away with it, then cry about "bullies" on the occasions someone does take them to task. I'd be all for a 3rd main arena to get the size down even further to undo the horde monkeys' effect.
Hence why Mid War generally has a much better fight atmosphere than Late War.
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Man, I know how that 87 feels - I keep diving into a mass of red lol.........
I'm just here to provide easy kills :D
Wurzel
Well i was banging my head against muppets with numbers yesterday. They kept shooting me down but it was fun fights :aok
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You know a third LW arena might not be a bad idea as long as it isnt even harder for our squad to get together. The squad is the thing I think. :aok
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simple, it's not enough squadron oriented tasks in the LW arenas to satisfy an entire squadron but at the same time they're alot of squadrons that like to do specific things ( Base cap, buff raids, fighter sweeps, etc. ) If the MA had it's scoring system deleted it would be more people concerned about fighting, good historical battles, high alt buff raids, high alt fighting, and squadron vs squadron face offs but currently the scoring system is making most of the LW into score potatos sadly. :O
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I agree Chalenge. It might seem counter-intuitive, but having a 3rd arena might make that easier than just having two. More choice might be the answer, not less.
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I've been flying here for over 7 years, and the fights have changed so much that it was a totally different game back then.
Back then the game was about "combat". Did you know that they use to reset the map once a week back then, ya know why? It was never "won". Not because it was hard to do, there just wasn't that much interest in it. Sure some bases were taken, then they were taken back and so on. The act of taking a base sometimes took all night because people fought over them. One single base, ALL NIGHT ! And no it wasn't because the numbers were so low because it was "new", we had close to what we have on a weeknight in one of the MAs.
Back then it was more history buffs playing out a fantasy role playing game.
Today we have the "I want it now!" generation. Nobody has the will, or patience to put the time and effort in becoming good at which ever type of combat they like. To most people they need it now, that means diving head on into every fight to get the kill first, carpet bombing a single GV because they don't know how to use a single bomb, or hunt with another gv, spawn camping is the only way gvs are used these days, even the Ltars are a shadow of what they were. Nobody takes pride in how they play, its all about wining getting the war won no matter what it takes, including having someone switch countries to occupy a shore battery so their friends can bring the CV in close with out fear of it getting shelled :O
Have I changed? Sure! I fly a lot smarter. I know the planes I fly a lot better, I know where to find fights by reading the map. Even my aim is getting better after I spent some time in the TA with Ghosth for a little training. ( yes even us old timers still look for training!) My expectations for this game however have not changed over all these years. I expect to login and find a few fights, have some fun, get caught up with whats going on with a few of my friends. These days however, the fights are harder to find, so the fun. Its hard to catch-up with some of my old friends because they got tired of the poor game play and don't play as much if they haven't canceled their accounts.
Even the old tricks for starting a fight don't work as well any more. I flew over to an enemy base at about 8-10k had the base flashing for a while. Finally a 109 ups. I let him climb to 5-6k and I start attack. I'm in a C-hog, but I don't fire on the HO or front quarter passes. I burn "E" recklessly until we are close in "E" but co alt at about 3k. I see a tiffy up so now I start to push the fight a bit harder figuring the tiffs going to get some alt while the 109 keeps me busy. Wrong, as I finish off the 109 I look over and the tiffy is on final for a landing. No he's not dragging me to the ack, he is slow and dropping gear and I'm not even in auto ack range yet ! He didn't even bother to try and fight. That is what this game is coming to. Fight even up? heck no I'm landing !!!
I circled for a bit until fuel became an issue and headed home with my one fight. In the old days that would have turned into a huge furball. Why, first off the second guy wouldn't have run away. He would have been someone looking to fight either for the "thrill" or the learning experience it could be. The first guy would have come back figuring his odds might be better with 2 against 1 and it could be time for some payback! :t either way he might learn something about fighting. Had they prevailed in the 2 on 1 I would have come back due to it being a fun fight, and they would he realized that the CV was just 5 miles out. Defenders and attackers would have showed up because a fight was at hand and it would have raged on until some dork sank the CV :D Instead it was one fight, a coward running away with out even engaging ( thats what really blows my mind, if you don't want to fight why are you PAYING to play a COMBAT GAME?) , and the guy that got shot down dishearten because he doesn't think he stands a chance. Had he asked me to give him some room and alt to reset the fight ( like in the old days) I would have just to have another good little fight.
The game is still the same, but how it's played has changed immensely. Too many people not willing to give it the time you need to LEARN how to play, too many "I want it NOW!" types :(
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Me personally. I enjoy fighting anything my 109 comes up against, it helps me assest my skill as a jagdflieger and if I lose I know I had the thrill of the fight and I still have a long way to go.
Only time ill run from a fight is when im severly outnumbered, low on fuel, or ammo. Other than that I love engaging from disadvantages because it teaches you how to fight at a weakness and you're better to adapt to situations if you constanly fight from a disadvantage.
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Anyone who knows me knows I'll fight anyone in anything lol.......or at least try. I'm by far not a good stick, have really bad aim, and lose way more than I win,
but hell, I'll try my hardest - no point in trying to find an easy way to get better, only going to get that by fighting with whats at hand.
Wurzel
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Amen Fugitive :aok
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Here's the problem: Alot of people consider the game to be about "winning the war". And it is not necessary to have combat to take bases.
That's IT, the entire thing, right there. But you know what? Every suggestion to make it obligatory to have combat (dar all the way to the ground, smaller maps) to take bases is ignored or poo-pooed. Every suggestion to make spawn camping less viable and every suggestion to make map-moving less about toolshedding with high buffs is treated the same way, nipped in the bud by naysayers. So please, with all due respect, get behind a couple of the good ideas to make air/ground superiority necessary for map moving, or shut up.
Oh, and Fugi, get off your high horse for Pete's sake. If you want people to willingly fight you, try NOT being higher than them in a fast plane that dives well, rolls well, turns extremely well, and packs 4xHispanos. You know the outcome of Typhoon getting into it with a F4U-1C with superior E as well as I do. Interesting thing I've discovered, MAers almost never run from a Jug or a D9.
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I've been flying here for over 7 years, and the fights have changed so much that it was a totally different game back then.
Back then the game was about "combat". Did you know that they use to reset the map once a week back then, ya know why? It was never "won". Not because it was hard to do, there just wasn't that much interest in it. Sure some bases were taken, then they were taken back and so on. The act of taking a base sometimes took all night because people fought over them. One single base, ALL NIGHT ! And no it wasn't because the numbers were so low because it was "new", we had close to what we have on a weeknight in one of the MAs.
Back then it was more history buffs playing out a fantasy role playing game.
Today we have the "I want it now!" generation. Nobody has the will, or patience to put the time and effort in becoming good at which ever type of combat they like. To most people they need it now, that means diving head on into every fight to get the kill first, carpet bombing a single GV because they don't know how to use a single bomb, or hunt with another gv, spawn camping is the only way gvs are used these days, even the Ltars are a shadow of what they were. Nobody takes pride in how they play, its all about wining getting the war won no matter what it takes, including having someone switch countries to occupy a shore battery so their friends can bring the CV in close with out fear of it getting shelled :O
Have I changed? Sure! I fly a lot smarter. I know the planes I fly a lot better, I know where to find fights by reading the map. Even my aim is getting better after I spent some time in the TA with Ghosth for a little training. ( yes even us old timers still look for training!) My expectations for this game however have not changed over all these years. I expect to login and find a few fights, have some fun, get caught up with whats going on with a few of my friends. These days however, the fights are harder to find, so the fun. Its hard to catch-up with some of my old friends because they got tired of the poor game play and don't play as much if they haven't canceled their accounts.
Even the old tricks for starting a fight don't work as well any more. I flew over to an enemy base at about 8-10k had the base flashing for a while. Finally a 109 ups. I let him climb to 5-6k and I start attack. I'm in a C-hog, but I don't fire on the HO or front quarter passes. I burn "E" recklessly until we are close in "E" but co alt at about 3k. I see a tiffy up so now I start to push the fight a bit harder figuring the tiffs going to get some alt while the 109 keeps me busy. Wrong, as I finish off the 109 I look over and the tiffy is on final for a landing. No he's not dragging me to the ack, he is slow and dropping gear and I'm not even in auto ack range yet ! He didn't even bother to try and fight. That is what this game is coming to. Fight even up? heck no I'm landing !!!
I circled for a bit until fuel became an issue and headed home with my one fight. In the old days that would have turned into a huge furball. Why, first off the second guy wouldn't have run away. He would have been someone looking to fight either for the "thrill" or the learning experience it could be. The first guy would have come back figuring his odds might be better with 2 against 1 and it could be time for some payback! :t either way he might learn something about fighting. Had they prevailed in the 2 on 1 I would have come back due to it being a fun fight, and they would he realized that the CV was just 5 miles out. Defenders and attackers would have showed up because a fight was at hand and it would have raged on until some dork sank the CV :D Instead it was one fight, a coward running away with out even engaging ( thats what really blows my mind, if you don't want to fight why are you PAYING to play a COMBAT GAME?) , and the guy that got shot down dishearten because he doesn't think he stands a chance. Had he asked me to give him some room and alt to reset the fight ( like in the old days) I would have just to have another good little fight.
The game is still the same, but how it's played has changed immensely. Too many people not willing to give it the time you need to LEARN how to play, too many "I want it NOW!" types :(
Post of the week.
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Interesting thing I've discovered, MAers almost never run from a Jug or a D9.
I rarely fly Doras, but I will say that I had Spitfires running from my D25 last week on more than one occasion.
The conclusion Ive drawn is that if you fly with any sort of confident aggressiveness, the other stick gets uneasy, regardless of the aircraft in question.
To each his own.
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I miss the old days-4 yrs ago.When I first started there were many good clean fights and not the gang tards we have now.I am not a good pilot but I wont ho on the merge and spend most of flight time avoiding it.I remember when it was common to let someone get back on an even field and go at it again.My best recent fight there was not even a shot fired by either.We were in spit 8's and spent 10 minutes just manuevering till someone jumped in and nailed me.If I get whacked by a stick that just outflew me no big deal cause he just taught me a lesson.I really love the gv's and a good spawn war or vbase fight.But here come the hordes ruining it.Tankers like a good fight too.Kinda like having a good fight and the conga line joins in.
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I think you may be experiencing fighter fatigue, try getting in a bomber for a long range flight with a pony escort, someone you enjoy talking to. Or take out a gv and camp a spawn, killing people over and over always makes me feel better about myself :lol
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If it wasn't for my squad, I wouldn't spend much time in the MA. The quality of my time in there is poor, the level of general sportsmanship is extremely low, and my frustration is very large. It's really not worth the subscription money as far as I'm concerned.
Now the DA, on the other hand, is a different story. My favorite thing to do is go at it with friends for a few hours in there on a semi-private field. That's what keeps me coming back :aok
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I read Fugitives post and reminded me of last night. I was in a LWArena, OKansas map, anyway I am flying around my base around 10k. I see a Jug come in and dump some ord on the VH, and head toward the sea. I'm in a 51D, and decided to give chase. The Jug and I are all alone and I'm still chasing him. At 2.0 the Jug turns to fight, here he comes at me head on, so with a little nose down angle I avoid the HO. So now it turns into a turn fight. Up and down, twisting and turning, at some point I made a slight mistake, because the Jug is now 800 from me. I level out and start to head out toward the sea. Trying to gain a little separation to reset the fight. At this time I see another Bish plane coming in, I tell him I am OK and I got him. The Bish plane ignores my request. Now the Jug is running from me and the other Bish. I say again "I got this one". The second Bish still ignores. About the same time I see a stream of tracers go by my canopy. To my dismay I have a Zero on my six closing fast to assist his Jug buddy. I drop a notch of flaps and go nose up, and watch the zero go beneath me. Retract the flaps and dive down onto the six of the zero as he's following the other Bish up. I open up the .50s and poof the wing of the Zero is taking a vacation from the rest of the plane. The Jug is now 3.0 away, so I kick in full power and WEP. I close to 1.5 and I see the Jug is heading right for is base. I decide that it’s time to turn back, rather than fight in a large airfields ack. As I am making my turn I notice a Typhoon much higher than I, coming in at a very high rate of speed, BOOM, the tail section of my plane is gone. Movements later I see the Typhoon driver spouting his mouth about ganging his buddy, and running from the Jug and how it’s funny that he shot me down. OK no big deal, So I reupp and I am climbing out and my SA was more focused on the TV than the game, and I get slammed into by another 51. SYSTEM:18Whiskey has collided. Ok no big deal again; I refrain from talking smack to the Typhoon/Pony driver that has taken out two of my planes. Re up again and I settle for an alt of 7k when I see another Pony, we start to tangle then he breaks and starts to run toward the sea. Hes about 800 out, I fire a 1 sec burst to get his attention, and it does. He starts to twist and turn, now I'm 600 out. Still need to get a tad closer due to my convergence. Still trying to escape the Pony driver make a slight sweeping right turn. I line up and have closed to 400, perfect, hold a 4 sec burst in lead fashion and the Pony flies right into my stream and BOOM. SYSTEM: You have kill 18Whiskey. I offer a Salute, vs smack talk, and recieve nothing. But on the other hand I have had amazing fights against Solar10 and countless others. That being said, my opponent seems to dictate my perception of the fight. And my respect for my opponent dictates my perception of the fight.
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Paragraphs are our friend. :O
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Here's the problem: Alot of people consider the game to be about "winning the war". And it is not necessary to have combat to take bases.
That's IT, the entire thing, right there. But you know what? Every suggestion to make it obligatory to have combat (dar all the way to the ground, smaller maps) to take bases is ignored or poo-pooed. Every suggestion to make spawn camping less viable and every suggestion to make map-moving less about toolshedding with high buffs is treated the same way, nipped in the bud by naysayers. So please, with all due respect, get behind a couple of the good ideas to make air/ground superiority necessary for map moving, or shut up.
Oh, and Fugi, get off your high horse for Pete's sake. If you want people to willingly fight you, try NOT being higher than them in a fast plane that dives well, rolls well, turns extremely well, and packs 4xHispanos. You know the outcome of Typhoon getting into it with a F4U-1C with superior E as well as I do. Interesting thing I've discovered, MAers almost never run from a Jug or a D9.
Not to make excuses, but I had upped a C-hog because there was dar bar in the same sector as the CV, so I was hunting buffs. Had I been on the other side of the fight I would have fought. No I don't think I'd have upped a tiffy, but I wouldn't have run no matter what.
Some of you idiots have to keep singing the same song. "It's all about the furballers trying to take away the landgrabbers fun" get off your high horse, if the landgrabbers didn't run off and hide every time some resistance showed up maybe there wouldn't be a problem. Its all about combat. If you don't learn how to fight whether in a fighter, gv, or as a team with multiple elements then your just a horde that MUST run away, because you don't KNOW ANY OTHER WAY!
I'll fight anything, anytime, with anything. I fought 2 spit 16s on the deck in my pony, I lost. I fought a pony and a spit at 8k with my pony, spit ran away, and I killed the pony. Common denominator is I had fun, I hope they did too....well not the spit that ran away ;) There is not problem with winning the war, but make a fight out of it. Instead of hording, or hiding fight for it. Instead of allowing 35 guys to join the mission to attack a base, launch it when you hit 20, or split the force to hit two bases. Why don't the squads do that? I'll tell you, they want it now! they don't want to have to work for it. Take the quickest easiest way in and out. wham, bam, thank-you mame !
We've had threads about how good some of these squads are. Its great to have pride in your squad, but you have to watch what your squad is all about. If your squad is known for running NOE's all night, stealing bases from under the enemies noses only to run off and do it someplace else while the base is recaptured, what are you proud of? I could pick groups of 6 guys out of all of those that I've flown with through the years and send them out in those little groups and have them grab base after base all night and never miss capturing one. Capturing the base is a piece of cake, but wheres the fun in that? Now working for a base thats a thrill! But todays players can't keep interested that long. A mission running more than 15 minutes is pure h@ll these days.
I want it now !!! That attitude is is going to at best make mediocre players, which in turn with make for weaker and weaker game play.
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Our slight disagreement about the "code" (to extend or not to extend, that is the question...) aside, I agree 100% that the fun is shooting a plane with a plane and a tank with a tank. But like I say, things could actually be done to make those things the core of the MA game, things that would be more effective than us sitting here and clucking our tongues about the way the MA has gone.
Not to make excuses, but I had upped a C-hog because there was dar bar in the same sector as the CV, so I was hunting buffs. Had I been on the other side of the fight I would have fought. No I don't think I'd have upped a tiffy, but I wouldn't have run no matter what.
Some of you idiots have to keep singing the same song. "It's all about the furballers trying to take away the landgrabbers fun" get off your high horse, if the landgrabbers didn't run off and hide every time some resistance showed up maybe there wouldn't be a problem. Its all about combat. If you don't learn how to fight whether in a fighter, gv, or as a team with multiple elements then your just a horde that MUST run away, because you don't KNOW ANY OTHER WAY!
I'll fight anything, anytime, with anything. I fought 2 spit 16s on the deck in my pony, I lost. I fought a pony and a spit at 8k with my pony, spit ran away, and I killed the pony. Common denominator is I had fun, I hope they did too....well not the spit that ran away ;) There is not problem with winning the war, but make a fight out of it. Instead of hording, or hiding fight for it. Instead of allowing 35 guys to join the mission to attack a base, launch it when you hit 20, or split the force to hit two bases. Why don't the squads do that? I'll tell you, they want it now! they don't want to have to work for it. Take the quickest easiest way in and out. wham, bam, thank-you mame !
We've had threads about how good some of these squads are. Its great to have pride in your squad, but you have to watch what your squad is all about. If your squad is known for running NOE's all night, stealing bases from under the enemies noses only to run off and do it someplace else while the base is recaptured, what are you proud of? I could pick groups of 6 guys out of all of those that I've flown with through the years and send them out in those little groups and have them grab base after base all night and never miss capturing one. Capturing the base is a piece of cake, but wheres the fun in that? Now working for a base thats a thrill! But todays players can't keep interested that long. A mission running more than 15 minutes is pure h@ll these days.
I want it now !!! That attitude is is going to at best make mediocre players, which in turn with make for weaker and weaker game play.
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Paragraphs are our friend. :O
Sorry, typing on my mobile phone. Paragraph form wasn't my first concern. :aok
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Our slight disagreement about the "code" (to extend or not to extend, that is the question...) aside, I agree 100% that the fun is shooting a plane with a plane and a tank with a tank. But like I say, things could actually be done to make those things the core of the MA game, things that would be more effective than us sitting here and clucking our tongues about the way the MA has gone.
There is nothing wrong with shooting a plane with a tank and vis-a-versa.
Scenario:
Time=0 launch 2 sets of B24s, and one goon from back line base 3 sectors out from target base.
Time= +30 launch launch 4 fighters 1 and half sectors out to meet up with and protect buffs and goons at 15k.
Time= +35 launch 2 fighters from same base as other fighters, but they only climb to 10k and hit adjacent base as decoy Kill radar and deack.
Time= +35 launch 3 panzers 2 wirbles and aM3 to target base. M3 does an end around while wirbles protect panzers from IL2s. Panzers protect wirbles from other gvs, and clean up town that B24 might have missed.
You have 15 people in the mission, you have back up troops, you have a decoy to draw attention away, you have fighter cover, and GV action. Will the plan work? Maybe, but theres the fun. Give it a try and see if it works. Are the launch times good? Do all the attackers reach the target about at the same time? As a defender would you fall for the decoy? Would you have enough cap up? Could you handle an attack from both the air and the ground at the same time?
Thats what this game is suppose to be about.
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Fugitive......You sir are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! :aok
Well said...
Too many momma's boys play this game that just want everything handed to them because they are too used to getting what the want NOW and are just too dang lazy to make any effort.
Sadly, this attitude seems to be the norm with pretty much ALL kids these days. :cry
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Here's the problem: Alot of people consider the game to be about "winning the war". And it is not necessary to have combat to take bases.
That's IT, the entire thing, right there.
I'd combine that with Fugitive's comment that "back then it was more history buffs playing out a fantasy role playing game."
Otherwise I agree.
- oldman
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if the landgrabbers didn't run off and hide every time some resistance showed up maybe there wouldn't be a problem. they don't want to have to work for it. Take the quickest easiest way in and out. wham, bam, thank-you mame !
Wow, that quote could very well be applied to the guys who fly P-51s , 190s , Tempests, C-hogs, spawn campers, etc etc.
As a matter of fact, I think it could be applied to the latter even more so.
All ya gotta do is look around, that statement could be applied to alot of situations with the same frequency that is used against "landgrabbers".
But a few guys in here keep throwing the "landgrabbers" to the lions, forgeting to look around a little more before pigeon holing one type of play as "avoiding" fights.
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It all has to do with arena size. Back in the day with less people you knew who you were fighting, and anyone who flew like a tard was generally called out and shamed for it. I think that is what is missing these days, arenas get too big and the self policing by the community is hampered by the fact that sissies can hide in the crowd and get away with it, then cry about "bullies" on the occasions someone does take them to task. I'd be all for a 3rd main arena to get the size down even further to undo the horde monkeys' effect.
Hence why Mid War generally has a much better fight atmosphere than Late War.
I agree
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Blaming individuals in the manner that pits the "old guard" against the "new generation" is neither constructive, nor even accurate, in trying to understand what's happening in the MA. The reason why many of my own posts are often furiously aimed against the "vet" class of players is specifically because of such intolerance and (rather ill-mannered) misunderstanding coming from the old timers of AH - which is often fueled by distasteful hypocrisy and blatant contempt against what is now a very large player base which easily overshadows the pitiful few numbers of "vets". Instead of trying to understand and observe why the MA has changed so drastically over the years, people simply find a scapegoat and "blame it on the new guy".
Ofcourse, such emotional responses are not necessarily hard to understand. Not everyone can see and accept change at a face value. Although the "vets" still retain a hefty amount of influence in these boards, in the MA their influence is next to non-existant. The style and attitude towards aerial combat which they've enjoyed for so long, just cannot compete against the full-fledged war that is now brewing everyday in the MA. It's not hard to imagine such frustration can easily take note of the 'new guy' and make him a scapegoat. Afterall, that's the basic social psychology behind xenophpbia. Something goes wrong in one's own turf, then start blaming the foreigners.
However, in a general perspective, people have always been familiar with the term, "it's their 15 bucks". As a matter of fact, the "vets" themselves have come up with such care-free and tolerant attitude long before the "Exodus" (events referring to the downfall of AW and WB, which lead to a dramatic increase in AH population), and launching of AH2. Therefore, how the players choose to fly and fight in the MA should pretty much belongs to their own. So what's with all the criticism going around?
For one thing, the overall growth of MA population, and new additions to the game throughout the years, has allowed the three factions of MA to really start up a warring environment. How AH started out, or what AH professed to be millions of years ago, is completely irrelevant a matter in this perspective. The only important fact is that now, the MA is a hands-down wargame in which people compete and fight against "the other country" using vintage WW2-era aircraft and vehicles, and the majority of people fight in the MA for a very different reason than what the "vets" used to fight for. "Fun" is a relative concept.
The problem is, the old "vet" crowds should have a say in this, too. Although they are an ever-shrinking minority nowadays, it shouldn't be impossible for them to find some fun in the MA, nor should they be left out of the game. But such things are happening, and the frustrations and anger coming from such reality makes them lash out towards other people who are just trying to have fun. Why is this happeneing?
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Well, I blame the "why" on HTC.
When the MA first started out, it wasn't exactly an exact science as to how the basic strat system was laid out. The goal of the game was to enjoy aerial combat in WW2 vintage aircraft, and all the rest was basically nothing much more than a mere facade, a colorful gimmick which people could use to add some different flavors to the aerial combat they enjoyed so much. However, as the years went on, AH grew into a larger game. With growing population, each of the three factions in the game could now put up regular numbers of pilots in the air for almost 24-hours straight, regardless of the time zone. More vehicles and aircraft were added in, which strengthened the level of detail in depicting WW2-era combat in the air, land, and sea.
In theory, the game should be getting more fun, now that its starting to look more and more like WW2. So why's it going downhill for the "vets"?
This problem stems up from a classic case of over competition in an environment which lacks structure.
Way back, when we had less than 200 people online, typically around maybe 150 or so in US time zones, and less than 100 in pacific time zones, everyone knew everyone else. Since there was never really a "war" going on, not only did people have the leisure to enjoy fights as they wished, but also the fights itself were much less hectic. It wasn't all that too difficult to survive when there were perhaps maybe five or six people at most in the area. People had the time to try practice, try stuff, and it wasn't an all too distasteful experience to be shot down a couple of times in the process. However, once the war machine started grinding, the purpose of the game shifted to the land-grab. Winning the war was the given objective, and people became a lot more determined in what they do. This sense of purpose gives the people a specific goal, a visible challenge which they can set their minds to, and the "challenge", is now not in winning in the air as an individual fighter pilot, but as an aerial power which operates at a more tactical and strategic level. The overall increase in population means that there are now a lot more enemies flying around in areas if engagement, and none of them are willing to cut you some slack. In short, its a lot harder for new players to survive now.
This explains the tendency of newer generations of AH players to stick to "uber" rides. They need to survive in the air to have some fun in the first place. This is also why the "horde" mentality surfaces - securing a numbers advantage against the enemy is the easiest and most primitive form of tactics in the field, and yet brutally effective. Newbies nowadays don't have the time and leisure to stay and fight with a vet. Like mentioned their sense of fun comes from fullfilling a given objective. Contributing for their faction in game, and being a part of something.
The problem is, despite all these changes, the basic structure of the game has remained virtually unchanged since 1999. As a matter of fact there is no 'structure' at all. In a real war, the effects of military structure, chain of command, economy and attrition all prohibit an individual soldier to act out on his own. Battle plans are carefully laid out, and order is observed and enforced. However, despite all the new additions to the game, such as towns and ports and etc.., the MA is essentially a large-scale form of fighting close to a team-based FFA(Free-for-All) where anyone can do anything they want without an existing military order which limits them. So, imagine what a newbie who first enters the MA would do when he sees that their are some 20~30 planes flying around at a given location in the map.
He looks for friends.
He tags along, and sticks within the group. The larger the group becomes, the higher the chance of survival. Especially when flying in a uberplane. Likewise, if the pilots on other side notice that the enemy group is becoming larger and stronger, he simply chooses to avoid the fight, and move to a location where the odds are better.
"It's their 15 bucks"
They take the most natural, simplest, and easiest way to gaining victories and fullfilling goals in the game - regardless of whether or not such attitudes in the MA can ruin the quality of the game itself.... and there's nothing anyone can do about it because, the MA is essentially a structureless FFA. Everything is upto the players, and the players can do everything - including, ruining the quality of the game for themselves.
And whose fault is that? Cetainly not the new guys. They're just playing how the game needs to be played.
If anyone is to blame, its HTC.
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ROX whats you opinion on this subject? :O
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So, imagine what a newbie who first enters the MA would do when he sees that their are some 20~30 planes flying around at a given location in the map.
He looks for friends.
He tags along, and sticks within the group. The larger the group becomes, the higher the chance of survival. Especially when flying in a uberplane. Likewise, if the pilots on other side notice that the enemy group is becoming larger and stronger, he simply chooses to avoid the fight, and move to a location where the odds are better.
"It's their 15 bucks"
They take the most natural, simplest, and easiest way to gaining victories and fullfilling goals in the game
Kweassa, you're harder on the new folks than the "vets" you're complaining about. When you started playing, did you tag along, stick with the group, fly an uberplane and avoid disadvantaged fights?
Didn't think so. And I'm not inclined to believe that the new folks, as a class, have suddenly become a craven mass. If there were no war to win, they'd be flying and fighting the same as we did a dozen years ago.
- oldman
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ROX whats you opinion on this subject? :O
How would he know? He's never actually fought anyone in the game.
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I'm going to make a drink.................. :rolleyes:
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Didn't think so. And I'm not inclined to believe that the new folks, as a class, have suddenly become a craven mass. If there were no war to win, they'd be flying and fighting the same as we did a dozen years ago.
- oldman
Check out the DA's furball lake to see for yourself.
And while there are some things HTC could have done, I have to disagree that it all boils down to being their fault. If it's their fault that the tools they laid out for players to have fun with were abused, it's also their fault that the game is so much damn fun and addictive, and the latter "fault" pretty much nullifies the former. As far as "blame" goes.
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I think it's ridiculous how a habitual runner, hoarder, advantage flyin dweeb will cast stones at somebody who typically fights by pointing out instances where that player chose to run or what not. For example and for simplistic's sake:
Player A:
Fights: 95% of the time
Runs: 5% of the time
Player B:
Fights: 50% of the time
Runs: 50% of the time
Say Player A calls out Player B for flying like a tard in general. 5 Days later, Player B happens to see Player A running from 3 on the deck and says something to the effect of "SEE, YOU RUN TOO HERO". :rolleyes:
Player B now feels good about his style of gameplay because he has just convinced himself that the high horse players that talk about fighting in the game run themselves! It's bs.
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Wow, that quote could very well be applied to the guys who fly P-51s , 190s , Tempests, C-hogs, spawn campers, etc etc.
As a matter of fact, I think it could be applied to the latter even more so.
All ya gotta do is look around, that statement could be applied to alot of situations with the same frequency that is used against "landgrabbers".
But a few guys in here keep throwing the "landgrabbers" to the lions, forgeting to look around a little more before pigeon holing one type of play as "avoiding" fights.
I agree, and I mention that later on with the comments on the fight I had. As I said, we can keep the "names" out of this. Its NOT about furballers, its NOT about landgrabbers, and its NOT about vets vs newbies either. Its about this community pulling together and doing their part to make it fun for each other, in stead of trying to kill the fun just for the heck of it.
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:rofl I'm glad to see absolutely no one shares my perspective on this issue. :rofl
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The people complaining find fun in complaining I think. :rolleyes:
I mean if they were so good at 'fighting' then they could kill even from a disadvantage and would have no need to complain. Right? Thats what I thought. (http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/Chalenge08/costumed-smiley-011.gif)
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:rofl I'm glad to see absolutely no one shares my perspective on this issue. :rofl
I think you would be surprised how many do Sir.
<Salute>
Way
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You know a third LW arena might not be a bad idea as long as it isnt even harder for our squad to get together. The squad is the thing I think. :aok
There are 4 now.
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perception is a funny thing...the base is in the lower left corner of your picture showing "all" those guys that were on just one...how many were just taking off and not actually involved with the one you speak of? Was that one just the last remaining one from 4-5 that were there? I know the enemy base was to the right of your picture.
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Despite finding something to complain about almost every day, we all keep logging on.
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perception is a funny thing...the base is in the lower left corner of your picture showing "all" those guys that were on just one...how many were just taking off and not actually involved with the one you speak of? Was that one just the last remaining one from 4-5 that were there? I know the enemy base was to the right of your picture.
:rofl hence.....no film. :aok
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perception is a funny thing...the base is in the lower left corner of your picture showing "all" those guys that were on just one...how many were just taking off and not actually involved with the one you speak of? Was that one just the last remaining one from 4-5 that were there? I know the enemy base was to the right of your picture.
If there had been 4-5 there, I probably would have jumped in. You see me up higher because I didn't want to bother with one low bandit.
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From my perspective, the best advance in gameplay since I've been a customer was chaining the bases. I was very disappointed when that facet of MA architecture went away. The best fights I have had are the most even--20v20 or 1v1. Anything we do that focuses the fight is a catalyst, in my opinion, for better individual gameplay.
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From my perspective, the best advance in gameplay since I've been a customer was chaining the bases. I was very disappointed when that facet of MA architecture went away. The best fights I have had are the most even--20v20 or 1v1. Anything we do that focuses the fight is a catalyst, in my opinion, for better individual gameplay.
Get ready for the stoning...Stoney.
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I asked for linked base capture to be brought back and got this response: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,258428.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,258428.0.html)
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Get ready for the stoning...Stoney.
:rofl
I'll continue to go on record that I thought it was a huge success. Perhaps with a fair review, it would have been modified a bit, but overall, the concept is the most promising technique I can imagine to improve MA quality. Others are free to disagree, but for 80% of them, their motivations are questionable. It would be interesting that with (2) LW MA's now, HTC could set one arena for the free-for-all we have now, and one with chained bases, and we'll see how things actually compare; just an idea.
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I agree 100%. Some of the best combat to be had was with that system.
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HTC could set one arena for the free-for-all we have now, and one with chained bases, and we'll see how things actually compare; just an idea.
That will separate the wheat from the chaff. +1
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Make Orange the "chain linked" one. This way it will get a good test as EVERYONE knows ORG is the better arena :noid
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:rofl
I'll continue to go on record that I thought it was a huge success. Perhaps with a fair review, it would have been modified a bit, but overall, the concept is the most promising technique I can imagine to improve MA quality. Others are free to disagree, but for 80% of them, their motivations are questionable. It would be interesting that with (2) LW MA's now, HTC could set one arena for the free-for-all we have now, and one with chained bases, and we'll see how things actually compare; just an idea.
I think it will probably get the same response that EW and MW has received.
The boards were ablaze with firey retoric about separating the arenas.
That worked out well.
And even if you funneled people into an area to fight, you would find guys at 20k+ and on the ground avoiding fights the best they can.
I've said it before, most guys in this game just want kills, they don't wanna have to fight to get them.
Forcing them into a situation isn't going to change that type of thinking.
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come to MW the fights are more personal and ther is far less gangbanging
I went there a couple weeks ago, you and pretty much your whole country were popping gv's near a base, when I got in a good fight with a nearby D9, you picked me with your dreaded A20. I went back to LW
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You know a third LW arena might not be a bad idea as long as it isnt even harder for our squad to get together. The squad is the thing I think. :aok
:confused:
I remember when the arenas first got split up and all the opposition to it.
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I went there a couple weeks ago, you and pretty much your whole country were popping gv's near a base, when I got in a good fight with a nearby D9, you picked me with your dreaded A20. I went back to LW
You got into a fight with a D9 in Mid-War?!?!
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There are 4 now.
I said LW (late war). :aok
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I went there a couple weeks ago, you and pretty much your whole country were popping gv's near a base, when I got in a good fight with a nearby D9, you picked me with your dreaded A20. I went back to LW
um i dont hunt gv,s i dont even carry ord :P
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5 friendlies ignoring 3-4 bandits just in icon range and barely 2k higher for the one lone guy 5k lower that was already engaged by 1-2 friendlies is not rare at all.
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You got into a fight with a D9 in Mid-War?!?!
Good point, (I always assume a 190 is a D9) was my D11 on his A5
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um i dont hunt gv,s i dont even carry ord :P
Dunno what ya were doin, (can only assume it was gv-poppin) as we progressed to deck I saw a LOT of enemies of same country, as I could tell, I was only enemy in air....A20 popped me whilst I was fighting this guy, it said "Cobia##
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I agree Chalenge. It might seem counter-intuitive, but having a 3rd arena might make that easier than just having two. More choice might be the answer, not less.
I'd have to say if this came to pass, that it only rotate small maps only. Less base taking/sneaking, more fighting, and closer fights.
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I agree
Correction;
I agree it is one of the key factors, but not THE single one. Changing that one element would probably have the biggest effect on gameplay environment.
I hate to keep using a non-issue as a comparison, but I saw this same negative effect on game play when AW turned PAC into Big PAC. It was cool, and it was big, and with it came big problems. Pretty much exactly what I see here. I went back the smaller ETO arenas where the fighting was more personal and more like playing football with the guys you all know in the neighborhood, then playing it in a city 4 way stoplight, where in a rat race where no one knows anyone and they all insult, mug and rob each other.
In a nut shell, I think it's a fairly definitive science where a certain threshold population size starts going sour. A point were in as it goes from Mayberry to <insert your fav big city here> with all the crime.
Kinda like overclocking, turn it up until you get errors then back it down a notch, or two. >*I*< think that error threshold has been passed. The game and the realistic settings are falling by the way side to accommodate a large arena (big city) mentality.
Since it's stupid to complain about something without an idea in exchange...
IMO keep the big arenas for events, make it something special. Keep the MAs (practice arenas) more intimate,...as that's where great comradeship is born and that is the core of what holds a community together,... in the long run, and people are more honorable in smaller crowds.
When it becomes too Big City, the happiness and honor milage will vary,...>IMO<
2 cents
Animl
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To me the biggest issue is that the current realities seem to be self sustaining. This is happening in the MWA as well. Just 1 example, on Sat I flew a couple of SBD hops on the 3rd one I was low and slow vs a spitty, pony came in...get spitty to auger, Jug comes in so I pop the ponies engine on a FQ shot I'd been ignoring till then. Jug pops me before I can get any speed or vertical maneuvering room back. I vented my spleen a bit (if you dont #@#$ a bit they will not know its "wrong").
Next afternoon run into jug driver and wingie in spits and they gang my A-20 so I up a 109F...figuring that its a plane I can manage the 1 on ? reasonably well in still having a challenge and fun factor. So we end up with a running 25-30 min fight going to deck and back up between the bases as the fight ebbs and flows...at the end he commented he was going to go watch his film(s) viewing it as a good lesson clip...I was happy to send him mine as well. However he had no issues bouncing me to prevent me from "pwning" another player.
To me the SBD/A-20/P-40 type fights are no different then how I flew way back when as a trainer, you cant learn if someone wont teach....or you wont let them.
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Another factor is the absolute lack of consensus among the players about what type of behavior is acceptable. You've got the fraction that will HO their own mothers at the drop of a hat because it was "historical". You've got the fraction that will gang their own mothers because it was "teamwork". You've got the fraction that will exploit all the game mechanics to suicide pork and take undefended bases because it supports the war effort. Some believe all of this behavior is fair game, and those of us that detest it all. Somewhere in between exists the majority of the players. We can't really do any shaming or apply any community peer pressure because as soon as a few of us do, 30 more come out and decry us as whiners or accuse us of trying to tell them what to do with their $15.
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My take on quality fights from worst type to best.
(Of course I do some or all of these from time to time.)
WORST-
The Gangbang
6 guys come to kill you while you are fighting another guy. Cannons firing all hoping for the kill. Worthless. Learned nothing except you need to get there quicker and aim better than the other guy. Having cannons helps too.
The Pick
A single guy does the same as shown above except there is just one of them. Same results though.
The HO/Ram
Marginally better than the last two. Atleast the guy gave you a chance to hit him...probably sacrifices position and dies soon after. If he won, hes just lucky he didnt get hit or died in a collision. If he lost he has a tower layout refresher course.
1 on 1
These rare fights can be broken down further, and are the cherished fights we can have.
A. You have a superior plane in speed/climb/cannon and use it to maintain the advantage to get a kill.
B. You have a near equal matchup and fight it out striving to fly betterthan the other guy to have the edge in preserving your E state and shooting better.
C. You have an inferior plane and defeat every attempt the superior plane makes in attacking you, bring the the fight to your terms,flying defensively until the time to go on the offesive comes, and then killing him.
You learn the most in 1 on 1 fights,especially if you can maintain a good attitude about winning or losing
the fight. Talk it over with your opponent, and state when you or he lost the advantage and how you or he arrived in the tower.
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This place reminds me of a local roller hockey rink I used to play at. It had your basic rec leagues for different ages, with different levels for each age group. A was the best, B less skilled, and so on. It also fielded a travel team.
The travel team was by invite/tryout only. You had to earn your place on it, and that took sweat and a dose of humiliation now and then. I managed to play on it, but did my time riding the pine and proving myself before I ever got a regular shift.
The rec leagues were open to anyone. It was up to you to choose what level you'd play at. After my travel days, I always preferred to play in "A," even though the competition was stiff, and winning wasn't certain. It took my team a few years of playing together before we finally won a championship (figure four seasons to a year).
I had a friend who always wanted to play in "D." I'd ask him why, and he'd say, "Because then I can get a trophy." He'd brag about how many goals he got in a game like it was a big accomplishment. That always bugged me. He wanted the glamour but didn't want to sweat for it.
That place was a lot like Aces High. There's a travel team here, one high-quality rec league, and then a bunch of less competitive leagues for everyone else. And you know, there's nothing wrong with playing for one of the less competitive ones as a matter of preference or ability... But it does bug me how there's so many people like my friend in this game. Some nights the place seems full of them.
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/snipped/ But in reference to one on ones in general...
I am all for allowing a 1v1 not to be interrupted, but it has to be an isolated 1v1, ya know what I mean? If it's a 1v1 5-10k away from any action, this type of fight shouldn't be interrupted. If your ally looks like he needs help, range should be used and ask him if he needs help. No reply, no action.
Now, what about a 1v1 fight in the middle of a furball? I don't see how you can call this a 1v1 and call somebody a name if they pick you. If I get picked in a furball or near a furball, obviously in the danger zone, you'll never hear me grief on 200. If I get picked in the middle of nowhere randomly in the middle of a fight, I will probably say something.
Getting picked and picking is the nature of the beast in the main arena and imo isn't always dishonorable. The more isolated a 1v1 is though, the more precautions you should take as a pilot not to interrupt a potentially promising fight for the two pilots involved.
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problem here is the people who whine were usually doing the exact same thing they were whining about moments ago. as soon as the tide turns they throw their toys out the pram...
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problem here is the people who whine were usually doing the exact same thing they were whining about moments ago. as soon as the tide turns they throw their toys out the pram...
Agree
Fred
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Even the old tricks for starting a fight don't work as well any more. I flew over to an enemy base at about 8-10k had the base flashing for a while. Finally a 109 ups. I let him climb to 5-6k and I start attack. I'm in a C-hog, but I don't fire on the HO or front quarter passes. I burn "E" recklessly until we are close in "E" but co alt at about 3k. I see a tiffy up so now I start to push the fight a bit harder figuring the tiffs going to get some alt while the 109 keeps me busy. Wrong, as I finish off the 109 I look over and the tiffy is on final for a landing. No he's not dragging me to the ack, he is slow and dropping gear and I'm not even in auto ack range yet ! He didn't even bother to try and fight. That is what this game is coming to. Fight even up? heck no I'm landing !!!
Nice write-up Fug, and very accurate! :aok You are a rarity these days in letting someone get alt & co-E before engaging. Most would vulch you when you're low and slow. That's class and shows a willingness to fight instead of just kill. :salute
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The problem is that its leading to an ever lower overall understanding of ACM within a large segment of the player base. This is a clip from MWA over the weekend. I had "chased" a P-40 from A6 to A5 (he was much more interested in landing his two kills) and then "forced" a mossie in to the ack. As I fly thru the gap between field and town ack a 38 and spitty follow me out from the field...
http://www.az-dsl.com/snaphook/film180.ahf
We've got hundreds (probably really well over 1000) good sticks still flying, but the other 75%+ of the player base seems to either have no desire to learn basic ACM or are unsure/unable how to start? Back when I started the numbers were low enough that a significant % of fights were either 1 on 1 or small number fights. Now you can fly an entire tour and never see a 1 on 1 if you dont want to...a key core strength is disappearing IMO.
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Those are the people who log in, and ask for strategic information about the map, and which base will be the next capture/sneak attempt.
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I log in and try to find all the fat chicks. :rock
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There have been a lot of valid points made so far..
I think that if there is a horde circling around a base that has either just been captured or an existing base that was just raided they are wasting time and could be used else where in the "war effort", unless a new raid on the base in question is immanent.
as far as the HO'ing topic, I think that depends on the situation as well. IF you are in a furball defending against a possible air cap than you need to do what you have to do to break the siege. If you are incoming on a single E/A then I say make a pass to assess the enemy and the turn to engage only after you have attained a little separation.
on to the topic of showing up to a fight after your allies have decided that it's warmer in the tower than in the air, here is what I have to say. If you are that guy who thinks he's John Wayne and decides that he can safely and wisely drop in to a fight and place himself as the victor in a 1v2, 1v3 or 1v whatever mentally than you are placing yourself in a situation that requires you to do what you have to do to survive and shows your opponents (in most cases) that you make poor decisions and you deserve what you get.
While this is just a game many of us like to make it as immersible as we possibly can. This can be from using period call signs, formations, landing patterns, bombing runs with proper escort, CAS missions or what ever else that was historic to the WWII period of flight. We are always are going to deal with those that are run and gunners and those that think they are generals and command the war effort, so what you can do to alleviate the impact that they have in the game is to educate them. You can take a new pilot, one that has just installed the app and just got his first stick. When he takes off he is going to be flabbergasted. To many times do I hear useless banter flung at these guys or you see one pilot making some grave decisions that are affecting the many and they usually get the same treatment. Why not send them a polite PM stating the reasons for the discontent? People respond a hell of a lot better to kind, constructive and clear statements.
for instance: Pilot A moves a CV on to a beach head and is being pummeled by the shore batteries. Pilot A might not understand this and is only thinking of having his/her guns at the opposing base. Pilot B should let them know that it was a mistake to move the CV to it's current position but should do it in a manner that does not belittle Pilot A, it should also be stated in a way that would educate the person in a constructive manner.
There is a training corps for AH II that is effective from what I hear but that is not enough. The real knowledge comes from the veteran players. Take the time to pull someone aside and teach them what they are doing wrong, you may find that most have no idea that they are making mistakes.
Just my 2-cents!
Cheers,
Ciaphas
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I'm sorry....
on to the topic of showing up to a fight after your allies have decided that it's warmer in the tower than in the air, here is what I have to say. If you are that guy who thinks he's John Wayne and decides that he can safely and wisely drop in to a fight and place himself as the victor in a 1v2, 1v3 or 1v whatever mentally than you are placing yourself in a situation that requires you to do what you have to do to survive and shows your opponents (in most cases) that you make poor decisions and you deserve what you get.
While this is just a game many of us like to make it as immersible as we possibly can. This can be from using period call signs, formations, landing patterns, bombing runs with proper escort, CAS missions or what ever else that was historic to the WWII period of flight.
Pure garbage on both counts.
WW2 fighter aviation is full of tremendous accounts of bravery, some widely known others hidden in relative obscurity and some totally unknown. "John Wayne" was nothing other then an attempt to put real bravery in a context the average person could understand, IRL sometimes the Duke got out but often he didn't.
For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty as Leader of a Section of Six Fighter Planes in VMF-112, during aerial operations against enemy Japanese forces off Kolombangara Island in the Solomons Group, 31 January 1943.
Taking off with section as escort for a strike force of dive bombers and torpedo planes ordered to attack Japanese surface vessels, First Lieutenant DeBlanc led his flight directly to the target area where, at 14.000 feet. our strike force encountered a large number of Japanese Zeros protecting the enemy's surface craft. In company with the other fighters, First Lieutenant DeBlanc instantly engaged the hostile planes and aggressively countered their repeated attempts to drive off our bombers, persevering in his efforts to protect the diving planes and waging fierce combat until, picking up a call for assistance from the dive bombers under attack by enemy float planes at 1,000 feet, he broke off his engagement with the Zeros, plunged into the formation of float planes and disrupted the savage attack, enabling our dive bombers and torpedo planes to complete their runs on the Japanese surface disposition and to withdraw without further incident.
Although his escort mission was fulfilled upon the safe retirement of the bombers, First Lieutenant DeBlanc courageously remained on the scene despite a rapidly diminishing fuel supply and , boldly challenging the enemy's superior number of float planes, fought a valiant battle against terrific odds, seizing the tactical advantage and striking repeatedly to destroy three of the hostile aircraft and to disperse the remainder. Prepared to maneuver his damaged plane back to base, he had climbed aloft and set his course when he discovered two Zeros closing in behind. Undaunted, he opened fire and blasted both Zeros from the sky in short, bitterly fought action which resulted in such hopeless damage to his plane that he was forced to bail out at a perilously low altitude atop the trees on enemy-held Kolombangara. A gallant officer, a superb airman and an indomitable fighter, First Lieutenant DeBlanc had rendered decisive assistance during a critical stage of operations, and his unwavering fortitude in the face of overwhelming opposition reflects the highest credit upon himself and adds new luster to the traditions of the United States Naval Service.
FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT
President of the United States
You want to get "immersed" in the realities of WW2 COMBATaviation go wade into a mess of red with a few good friends. Now you can also get immersed in WW2 stateside training and practice call signs and landing patterns...just like they did in BF Oklahoma.
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Anaxogoras/Gavagai,
What is you perception of the quality of this fight?
http://www.mediafire.com/file/idyznnmyzmf/perception.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/file/idyznnmyzmf/perception.ahf)
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You want to get "immersed" in the realities of WW2 COMBAT aviation go wade into a mess of red with a few good friends. Now you can also get immersed in WW2 stateside training and practice call signs and landing patterns...just like they did in BF Oklahoma.
When a single person enters a fight while severally out numbered and he dies he is considered a fool of sorts but if he wins he is considered brave. that ideology makes no sense as the initial act of entering such a situation is foolish to begin with regardless of the end product. Often times those that did enter that type of situation lacked the understanding of the whole war effort. There are exceptions to this but were far and few between but for the most part they were considered reckless and out of the ordinary.
There is one thing to turn on the face of an overwhelming enemy while on a mission or raid and it's something completely different to be the only friendly in the air and dive in to a gaggle..
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I dont know about quality fights I'm a no skilled tard but I dont seem to have any trouble finding kills/deaths but i dont mind deaths :O if they are ack hugging I'll get a squadie to watch my 6 and up a 190 a8 and go deack it. I'll even tangle with a few eny ftrs like i said i dont mind death's.I'll even up a couple times if there is a light cap on a field. If they have a hard spawn/hanger camp i'll up a jabo and pop em with some eggs. I think with the variety of this game its easy to find a fight dont know if its a good fight probably only a few are but I guess its what you can stir up :aok :salute
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When a single person enters a fight while severally out numbered and he dies he is considered a fool of sorts but if he wins he is considered brave. that ideology makes no sense as the initial act of entering such a situation is foolish to begin with regardless of the end product. Often times those that did enter that type of situation lacked the understanding of the whole war effort. There are exceptions to this but were far and few between but for the most part they were considered reckless and out of the ordinary.
There is one thing to turn on the face of an overwhelming enemy while on a mission or raid and it's something completely different to be the only friendly in the air and dive in to a gaggle..
I understand the immersion factor, but where I'll dive into a 1 vs 2, or 1 vs 3 and have fun while supplying fun to others, where you while flying away will be..... just flying away. Seeing it's a game, I'll stick to "playing" and having fun.
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I dont know about quality fights I'm a no skilled tard but I dont seem to have any trouble finding kills/deaths but i dont mind deaths :O if they are ack hugging I'll get a squadie to watch my 6 and up a 190 a8 and go deack it. I'll even tangle with a few eny ftrs like i said i dont mind death's.I'll even up a couple times if there is a light cap on a field. If they have a hard spawn/hanger camp i'll up a jabo and pop em with some eggs. I think with the variety of this game its easy to find a fight dont know if its a good fight probably only a few are but I guess its what you can stir up :aok :salute
Hello haasehole,
I think you have a good point and touched on a good subject here. Exactly what type of quality fight are folks looking for? Is it in a plane only? A single enemy only? The list of qualifiers could go on and on. For example...
I find plenty of quality fights, but not all of them are in a plane, and certainly the greater portion of them are not against a single enemy. What say the rest of the community about this?
Have a great day,
Way
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I dont know about quality fights I'm a no skilled tard but I dont seem to have any trouble finding kills/deaths but i dont mind deaths :O if they are ack hugging I'll get a squadie to watch my 6 and up a 190 a8 and go deack it. I'll even tangle with a few eny ftrs like i said i dont mind death's.I'll even up a couple times if there is a light cap on a field. If they have a hard spawn/hanger camp i'll up a jabo and pop em with some eggs. I think with the variety of this game its easy to find a fight dont know if its a good fight probably only a few are but I guess its what you can stir up :aok :salute
I don't see any reason to kill ack, tho I will. The reason the ack is there is to protect those upping from the base. Well I'm ok with them upping, let them get a few "K" under them and build a bit of speed. They will be much more fun to fight with that way. Those that hide in the ack.... lets say we add a timer, you launch, and you have 2 minutes to get out of your own ack or it kills you for the coward you are :devil Well maybe that should be in the wish list thread.
Me, I'm looking for any fight....minus the "gang tards" If I'm over a fight 1 vs 1 I ask if they need help. If I'm over a fight 2 or 3 vs one enemy I don't bother to look at it, I'm not needed there. If you see me in on a fight with more than a couple guys, it is because I was the lone guy on him and he is either THAT good, or my aim has hit its usual suckage, but once in, I don't stop till he's down or I am. A little common curtasy by other will help cut down on the gangs and will show the new guys a cleaner way to fight. Cutting back on the horde will then lead people to learn more about ACM and BCM because they won't be able to hide any more, which in turns improves game play for everyone.
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I rarely fly Doras, but I will say that I had Spitfires running from my D25 last week on more than one occasion.
lol I had a C-Hog running like a schoolgirl from my P-40E this week and an La7 flopping like a fish trying to get away from my P-40B. :rofl
I bet neither thought they'd be overmatched when they engaged.
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lol I had a C-Hog running like a schoolgirl from my P-40E this week and an La7 flopping like a fish trying to get away from my P-40B. :rofl
I bet neither thought they'd be overmatched when they engaged.
I have 3 planes that seemed to like to do the fishflop when I get on their 6, as rare as that is. First 2 ar 190s a5 and a8 and then the La-7. I do think a8s are the worst though. It is fun to throttle down and saddle-up and let them snaproll themselves into the trees too.
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I think Ill just let Snaphook speak for me for the remainder of this thread's life.
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You know what's really funny? All the talk on this board about the good ol' days and These Kids Today and what have you cut be cut and pasted into any one of about four different boards I follow intermittently on hobbies ranging from Cowboy Action Shooting to movie prop/replica collecting.
IIRC, I started playing AW in 1995 or 1996 and by the time I'd been in it for 3 months you heard all the same complaints.
Gavagai is right - the game may change, but the biggest change is the perception of the player.
As for my perspective, here's a few things I've noticed:
1) Anyone who complains about the behavior of a "newbie dweeb" who wouldn't fight when the complainer tried to jump him with a 262 or F4U-4 and a 5k alt advantage needs a good whap to the head with a clue-by-four. You think newbs flying uber planes is the problem? Well, when was the last time you saw a newb in a 262 or Tempest? Of course most of the vets don't stick with perked planes all the time, but if the newbie is getting slammed by much superior planes every so often, how can you blame him for taking the best ride he can, looking to fight at an advantage, and running when he doesn't have one? What else does every 262 do?
2) In a similar vein, if you're that good of an experienced vet, instead of whining about how "these kids today" - the ones with the .05 k/d ratio - aren't taking on a bigger challenge, why don't YOU look at it as a challenge for yourself? They don't play the way you want? Well, you don't play the way THEY want. Why do you think you're right and they're wrong? And if you're such a good pilot and they're such pathetic ones, why can't you beat them when they have alt and numbers?
3) 90% of this stuff boils down to SA. SA was by far the most important skill for a pilot in WW2, every top ace I know of said it was THE secret to their success. I understand that the game is not a strategic simulation, that base taking is just a frame to make battles happen, but saying the game is all about ACM and 1-1 duels to the exclusion of everything else is ridiculous. Everything here - incoming hordes vs. a few defenders, getting bounced from 10k up, getting picked and gangbanged, enemies running away when they lose the advantage - is a tactical scenario that every WW2 pilot had to face, and dealing with them was every bit as much a part of the pilot's skill set as ACM and gunnery, as was teamwork. No, this isn't a war or even a war simulation, but if you're trying to simulate the tactics, skills, and technical challenges of flying WW2 fighters, 1-1 co-e duels are a poor way to do it.
4) Because of # 3, I like the game the way it is now a heck of a lot more than I'd like it the way some here seem to want it - essentially, just a bunch of DAs. I'm glad to have a decent co-e 1-1 fight sometimes, but I'd get bored very quickly if that's all there was.
5) Two things that are worse than anything anyone here is complaining about: alt-monkeys and whole-country gangbangs.
Alt-monkeys are worse because you can't avoid them. If you don't like 40-plane base captures, just fly somewhere else from where they're attacking. At any given time there are always going to be more people not doing that than doing it, and the ones doing it are all concentrated on 1 or 2 bases. But you can't avoid the alt-monkeys (there always seem to be 1 or 2 everywhere), you can't fight them if they won't commit, and you know if you try to fight someone else you'll just get picked. And who wants to spend 90% of their stick time just climbing, climbing, climbing? (Apparently some people...)
The country gangbangs are bad because they don't just offer an alternative to fighting, they make it all but impossible. It's one thing to fight against the odds, but another when you've got 2-1 odds or worse everywhere on the map and, as if that isn't enough, escorted raids of 3, 4, 5 Lanc boxes at 20,000 feet porking every field within 30 miles of the front. It's all fine getting a big local advantage, but what's the fun of making it impossible for the other side to put up a fight anywhere on the map? And in a 3-player game the whole ENY system is just pointless, because the advantage depends on the interaction of the countries more than the raw numbers for any one of them. Getting slammed everywhere while still having a 20 ENY is just ridiculous.
5) Vulching uppers is establishing local air superiority. Vulching people trying to land is just pathetic (assuming that "vulching" = going in on a new target, not finishing off someone you were already fighting). What are you hoping to accomplish?
6) Has it occurred to you that that guy is "hiding in ack" because he knows if he doesn't he'll get slammed by someone from 10k up before he can get any speed and alt to fight? Because that's what happened to him within 10 seconds the last three times he left the ack? If you're complaining because you can't find anyone willing to enter a "fair fight," come down to his alt and burn off some e, then see if he'll come out of the ack. Or back off a couple of miles and let him come up. (And if someone in a faster plane goes through ack to lose you, all he's really doing is saving you both the bother of a 10-minute race you won't win anyway. If he's in a slower plane, you should have killed him before he got there, and if you don't want to deal with his ack, what are you doing so close it to begin with?)
7) Just don't tune to 200 unless you're amused by it. And if you do find it amusing, why complain about it?
F### the forum. Just fly.
That's all the ranting I can do today. :furious :cry :rolleyes: :salute
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I have been thinking about this a lot lately, because again I'm going through a 'burn out' and not having very much fun.
I've been playing off and on since Beta.
Back when AH1 first came out there were a few exceptional sticks, but most of us were just figuring things out. I would say the split was about 25/75, with about 25% of the pilots interested in ACM and looking for a good fight, and 75% clueless flying around looking for an easy kill and nothing more. The main difference, is back in the day there would only be 100-200 players online, and with just the nature of the maps and population density it was fairly easy to find good fights and avoid the hordes.
Now the main difference is not that pilots are worse, but simply a factor of the population density. With the huge amount of players it simply becomes harder or impossible to find good fights that soon don't turn into boring 5v1 or some other type of dweebery.
IMHO this has nothing to do with the quality of the players, but with the quantity of players. We simply have a lot more kids on nowadays that grew up playing Doom and want instant gratification, and are not as interested in learning ACM. The good sticks have just become diluted to a point where its hard to find a good even fight.
BTW, if you think the HOing is bad now, you should have been playing before the Chog was perked!
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Last night above 214:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3649/3303318429_9429a3500e_o.png)
Screen shot taken after these guys finished competing for one low bandit.
You hear a lot complaints about fight quality these days in Aces High. Too many players will only fight when they outnumber the enemy, take head-on shots as a matter of course, run away, and just generally suck. Apparently, the game degraded to this state of affairs long before I arrived, but there used to be a "happy time" (to borrow the apt phrase) when people sought out fights with better pilots to learn something, didn't gang (as much), didn't fly Typhoons just for the sake of front quarter shots, etc.
If the above is true, then it was probably only true when AH was still very small and you knew all the people you were fighting. Warbirds was a small venue, and I remember the same complaints that you hear now about Aces High. The scarcity of good fights was one of my motivations for a long break from online flight sims; I remember the frustration. After years away from the genre, I come back and have fun. Recently, I sometimes find myself frustrated with what I can find in the arena, and I've only been back at it since November '07, though my learning curve was mostly a de-rusting process (last night was a fun exception, and FSO always holds my interest). Too much flight time is partly responsible for that, but I'm pretty sure there is a psychological change that a virtual pilot undergoes after so many kills and so many deaths. What was fun previously becomes tiresome.
I'm confident that a lot of you would say that the fights are worse now than they were in, say, 2006. And last year a lot of you would've said the fights were worse than they were in 2005. I hate to break it to ya, but it's most likely you. You have improved and are no longer satiated with easy kills. You no longer shrug off getting ganged because you were able to get one or two before you died: a good challenge is neither too easy nor impossible to overcome. It's high time you start looking for fun in places you haven't looked before. Recently I've had the pleasure to get clobbered by the likes of m00t and battfinkv in the DA, and it was fun. :) If you know there are some people you like to fight in the arena, invite them to start a battle in a less populated area, or start a 2vs2 in the DA. Take a look at yourself and how much you've changed and improved over the years. The fights are probably the same, but you are not. :salute
I Have been in the game now for a couple of mos.
and I have yet to get my first kill in a fighter . that doesnt mean im willing to stoop to low tactics such as ganging or hit & run
I got on here to learn to fly and fight like a true pilot. so if you see me fight well and remember that some of us are actually trying to do it right :rock
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I Have been in the game now for a couple of mos.
and I have yet to get my first kill in a fighter . that doesnt mean im willing to stoop to low tactics such as ganging or hit & run
I got on here to learn to fly and fight like a true pilot. so if you see me fight well and remember that some of us are actually trying to do it right :rock
A couple months? :frown:
Hey, if you see me in the arenas send me a message. We'll wing up and try to fix that for you. Turn you into a killer. :aok
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IIRC, I started playing AW in 1995 or 1996 and by the time I'd been in it for 3 months you heard all the same complaints.
While it is true that many of the primary complaints existed back then, they need to be put into context.
Today, you hear the usual whines on 200. Im a whiner, too. Gang this, horde that, etc, etc.
15 years ago, you heard whines as well, but they occurred on a rolling basis. As new players arrived, they were verbally policed and adjusted their behavior. That particular player was, by and large, no longer the target of a whine.
Today, the whines are consistent because there is no behavior adjustment. The sheer number of dweebs simply increases with each day because the current "play style" has, somehow, gained acceptability. As a result, the same players are the targets of the same whines, over and over again. Think of how many 'infamous' players we have who have clearly established scumbag reputations. Plenty.
As an ancillary issue, this is to say nothing of the pre-AOL pay-to-play days. We're comparing todays environment with, in your example, a free version of AW. In that vein, think of the automatic influx of tards that would show up for a free game and then consider that they were far more respectful of the existing game play style than today's $14.95 crowd.
I Have been in the game now for a couple of mos.
and I have yet to get my first kill in a fighter . that doesnt mean im willing to stoop to low tactics such as ganging or hit & run
I got on here to learn to fly and fight like a true pilot. so if you see me fight well and remember that some of us are actually trying to do it right :rock
We need more of you.
As Scotch said, look us up. My in-game name is in my signature. When in any arena, type ".p Mazz" (without quotes and then followed by your desired text) to send me a private message. We'd be glad to show you the ropes.
A new player with your attitude is worth ten times as much to the health of the game than any long-timer who has resolved himself to be a faceless drone amongst the masses of dweebery.
Welcome to Aces High. :salute
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IMHO this has nothing to do with the quality of the players, but with the quantity of players. We simply have a lot more kids on nowadays that grew up playing Doom and want instant gratification, and are not as interested in learning ACM.
Do you think this is because more players means a lower median age? Because 5-10 years isn't enough by itself to mark a generation change.
Anyway, most of us in our late thirties and early forties grew up playing PacMan and Space Invaders, watching MTV videos edited at what back then seemed like the speed of light, and being accused of wanting only instant gratification. ;)
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I Have been in the game now for a couple of mos.
and I have yet to get my first kill in a fighter . that doesnt mean im willing to stoop to low tactics such as ganging or hit & run
I got on here to learn to fly and fight like a true pilot. so if you see me fight well and remember that some of us are actually trying to do it right :rock
What's your in-game name, shppr01? Take Scotch and Mazz on their offers, and know that I'll match it too... Maybe sometime a group of us could go with you to the TA or DA and let you sit in our airplanes while we show you a few basic moves to help you out...
You're the sort of person that we want to see succeed. All you have to do is ask, we'll make the time.
:salute
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I was messing around in KI-67's on Saturday morning, dived down onto a typhie, he bolted like there was no tomorrow and then a pony decided to try and he ended up "extending" think by that point I had around 4 mins of gas left and then decided to hang out near the base where they were upping from, got a little to close to the ack and the rest is history- fun times :)
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Anaxogoras/Gavagai,
What is you perception of the quality of this fight?
http://www.mediafire.com/file/idyznnmyzmf/perception.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/file/idyznnmyzmf/perception.ahf)
Probably not my best effort because I had barely flown the 84 then, but the only thing you would do was try to lure me into a high speed dive when my wings would threaten to break off! :lol I remember that fight; I had hoped you would fly to meet my attack instead of always diving away, which vs the 84 is the safest thing you can do.
I also remember that there were a number of rooks at the base you had come from, mostly pretty low, and I had the suspicion that you were trying to drag me low so that friendlies could come gang me. If I'm wrong about that, then my bad.
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IIRC, I started playing AW in 1995 or 1996 and by the time I'd been in it for 3 months you heard all the same complaints.
Yep, you were one of the "10,000 Dweebs" (I believe Mullah may still hold the copyright on that :)) and with each expansion, the game play took a hit.
1) Anyone who complains about the behavior of a "newbie dweeb" who wouldn't fight when the complainer tried to jump him with a 262 or F4U-4 and a 5k alt advantage needs a good whap to the head with a clue-by-four. You think newbs flying uber planes is the problem? Well, when was the last time you saw a newb in a 262 or Tempest? Of course most of the vets don't stick with perked planes all the time, but if the newbie is getting slammed by much superior planes every so often, how can you blame him for taking the best ride he can, looking to fight at an advantage, and running when he doesn't have one? What else does every 262 do?
Nah, not me complaining in that situation and if I do...it's because the "newbie dweeb" is the one with the alt ad and the sooper plane.
2) ... why can't you beat them when they have alt and numbers?
I do...and your point is?
3) 90% of this stuff boils down to SA. SA was by far the most important skill for a pilot in WW2, every top ace I know of said it was THE secret to their success. I understand that the game is not a strategic simulation, that base taking is just a frame to make battles happen, but saying the game is all about ACM and 1-1 duels to the exclusion of everything else is ridiculous. Everything here - incoming hordes vs. a few defenders, getting bounced from 10k up, getting picked and gangbanged, enemies running away when they lose the advantage - is a tactical scenario that every WW2 pilot had to face, and dealing with them was every bit as much a part of the pilot's skill set as ACM and gunnery, as was teamwork. No, this isn't a war or even a war simulation, but if you're trying to simulate the tactics, skills, and technical challenges of flying WW2 fighters, 1-1 co-e duels are a poor way to do it.
I quoted this so that it would be here for the response below...
4) Because of # 3, I like the game the way it is now a heck of a lot more than I'd like it the way some here seem to want it - essentially, just a bunch of DAs. I'm glad to have a decent co-e 1-1 fight sometimes, but I'd get bored very quickly if that's all there was.
Hmm, I haven't seen anyone ask for a "bunch of DAs" or anything even close to that. I have seen plenty of folks ask for some relief from horde monkeys and suicide weenies...neither of which take ANY strategic or tactical skill (much less ACM skill) to accomplish.
5) Two things that are worse than anything anyone here is complaining about: alt-monkeys and whole-country gangbangs.
Alt-monkeys are worse because you can't avoid them. If you don't like 40-plane base captures, just fly somewhere else from where they're attacking. At any given time there are always going to be more people not doing that than doing it, and the ones doing it are all concentrated on 1 or 2 bases. But you can't avoid the alt-monkeys (there always seem to be 1 or 2 everywhere), you can't fight them if they won't commit, and you know if you try to fight someone else you'll just get picked. And who wants to spend 90% of their stick time just climbing, climbing, climbing? (Apparently some people...)
The country gangbangs are bad because they don't just offer an alternative to fighting, they make it all but impossible. It's one thing to fight against the odds, but another when you've got 2-1 odds or worse everywhere on the map and, as if that isn't enough, escorted raids of 3, 4, 5 Lanc boxes at 20,000 feet porking every field within 30 miles of the front. It's all fine getting a big local advantage, but what's the fun of making it impossible for the other side to put up a fight anywhere on the map? And in a 3-player game the whole ENY system is just pointless, because the advantage depends on the interaction of the countries more than the raw numbers for any one of them. Getting slammed everywhere while still having a 20 ENY is just ridiculous.
In many cases, what you are talking about above is precisely what people are talking about.
5) Vulching uppers is establishing local air superiority. Vulching people trying to land is just pathetic (assuming that "vulching" = going in on a new target, not finishing off someone you were already fighting). What are you hoping to accomplish?
Hadda put this one in since you put in two #5's. :devil
6) Has it occurred to you that that guy is "hiding in ack" because he knows if he doesn't he'll get slammed by someone from 10k up before he can get any speed and alt to fight? Because that's what happened to him within 10 seconds the last three times he left the ack? If you're complaining because you can't find anyone willing to enter a "fair fight," come down to his alt and burn off some e, then see if he'll come out of the ack. Or back off a couple of miles and let him come up. (And if someone in a faster plane goes through ack to lose you, all he's really doing is saving you both the bother of a 10-minute race you won't win anyway. If he's in a slower plane, you should have killed him before he got there, and if you don't want to deal with his ack, what are you doing so close it to begin with?)
Well, obviously it doesn't occur to them that if they didn't take off...there would be no one there to get "slammed from 10k". Anyway, experience tells me that as often as not, these folks are using the alt as a crutch.
7) Just don't tune to 200 unless you're amused by it. And if you do find it amusing, why complain about it?
It is amusing and I find complaints about 200 to be inane.
F### the forum. Just fly.
Perhaps you need a .squelch forums command..... :devil
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Probably not my best effort because I had barely flown the 84 then, but the only thing you would do was try to lure me into a high speed dive when my wings would threaten to break off! :lol I remember that fight; I had hoped you would fly to meet my attack instead of always diving away, which vs the 84 is the safest thing you can do.
I also remember that there were a number of rooks at the base you had come from, mostly pretty low, and I had the suspicion that you were trying to drag me low so that friendlies could come gang me. If I'm wrong about that, then my bad.
You are upset he wouldn't go for your rope. He is upset you wouldn't go for his barrel roll overshoot.
IMO you held all the cards and didn't press the attack. IMO mind you.
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Yes, I think I could have pressed the attack harder. I had just climbed my way out of a tricky situation and was too scared of being brought low for his friendlies (who I couldn't see, but suspected were not far away). Oh well.
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He is upset you wouldn't go for his barrel roll overshoot.
I'm not upset at all. Actually a barrel roll overshoot was not on my mind either.
I just find a great amount of irony between this thread and that film, that is all. :)
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I'm not upset at all. Actually a barrel roll overshoot was not on my mind either.
I just find a great amount of irony between this thread and that film, that is all. :)
Ahhhh haaaa!!!! So you were trying to drag down to friendlies. ;)
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I'm not upset at all. Actually a barrel roll overshoot was not on my mind either.
I just find a great amount of irony between this thread and that film, that is all. :)
It's ironic that a film about which 3 of us have different perceptions is posted in a thread where the OP, who is also a pilot in the film, claims fight quality is largely a matter of perception? ;)
Yes, that is ironic.
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Ahhhh haaaa!!!! So you were trying to drag down to friendlies. ;)
:confused:
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It's ironic that a film about which 3 of us have different perceptions is posted in a thread where the OP, who is also a pilot in the film, claims fight quality is largely a matter of perception? ;)
Yes, that is ironic.
Actually, it's not just what you said in the original post. I just, at the time the film was rolling remembered many of your previous BBS-comments regarding the issue that you, on this thread, approach from a slightly different angle.
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:confused:
Just trying to make a funny. It was Anax's perception you were attempting to drag to friendlies.
No slight intended..hence the smiley.
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Actually, it's not just what you said in the original post. I just, at the time the film was rolling remembered many of your previous BBS-comments regarding the issue that you, on this thread, approach from a slightly different angle.
My opinions change over time. I try to keep learning new things, I've been trying to be more aggressive as my ACM abilities versus superior-energy-state opponents improve, I've been trying new aircraft... If my opinions didn't change that would probably be bad.
We're both rooks right now, but I think next month our squad is going knight for a tour. I'm getting the hang of the Ki-84 and I hope next time I give you a better fight than what that film shows there (and I won't be so paranoid about being dragged to friendlies). :salute
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My opinions change over time. I try to keep learning new things, I've been trying to be more aggressive as my ACM abilities versus superior-energy-state opponents improve, I've been trying new aircraft... If my opinions didn't change that would probably be bad.
We're both rooks right now, but I think next month our squad is going knight for a tour. I'm getting the hang of the Ki-84 and I hope next time I give you a better fight than what that film shows there (and I won't be so paranoid about being dragged to friendlies). :salute
<S>
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You know what's really funny? All the talk on this board about the good ol' days and These Kids Today and what have you cut be cut and pasted into any one of about four different boards I follow intermittently on hobbies ranging from Cowboy Action Shooting to movie prop/replica collecting.
IIRC, I started playing AW in 1995 or 1996 and by the time I'd been in it for 3 months you heard all the same complaints.
Gavagai is right - the game may change, but the biggest change is the perception of the player.
As for my perspective, here's a few things I've noticed:
1) Anyone who complains about the behavior of a "newbie dweeb" who wouldn't fight when the complainer tried to jump him with a 262 or F4U-4 and a 5k alt advantage needs a good whap to the head with a clue-by-four. You think newbs flying uber planes is the problem? Well, when was the last time you saw a newb in a 262 or Tempest? Of course most of the vets don't stick with perked planes all the time, but if the newbie is getting slammed by much superior planes every so often, how can you blame him for taking the best ride he can, looking to fight at an advantage, and running when he doesn't have one? What else does every 262 do?
If you don't fight how can you learn to fight? If im in a P40 and a couple of spit jump me I'm going to give it all I have. If I didn't want to fight I wouldn't play this game. Too many people hide in the hordes.
2) In a similar vein, if you're that good of an experienced vet, instead of whining about how "these kids today" - the ones with the .05 k/d ratio - aren't taking on a bigger challenge, why don't YOU look at it as a challenge for yourself? They don't play the way you want? Well, you don't play the way THEY want. Why do you think you're right and they're wrong? And if you're such a good pilot and they're such pathetic ones, why can't you beat them when they have alt and numbers?
They are shot down in huge numbers ...look at the k/d :rolleyes: However if they step outside the horde and learn a few maneuvers that might get better, and have more fun. I always though living longer and getting more kills was a LOT more fun than dieing 5 times to ever kill I could get.
3) 90% of this stuff boils down to SA. SA was by far the most important skill for a pilot in WW2, every top ace I know of said it was THE secret to their success. I understand that the game is not a strategic simulation, that base taking is just a frame to make battles happen, but saying the game is all about ACM and 1-1 duels to the exclusion of everything else is ridiculous. Everything here - incoming hordes vs. a few defenders, getting bounced from 10k up, getting picked and gangbanged, enemies running away when they lose the advantage - is a tactical scenario that every WW2 pilot had to face, and dealing with them was every bit as much a part of the pilot's skill set as ACM and gunnery, as was teamwork. No, this isn't a war or even a war simulation, but if you're trying to simulate the tactics, skills, and technical challenges of flying WW2 fighters, 1-1 co-e duels are a poor way to do it.
blah blah blad WWII blah blah blah. This isn't WWII ! its a game Yes SA is important, but if someone looks out over their wing and see 3 guys chasing a lone enemy they are not thinking" ah ha !!! I'm going to test this guys SA !" No too many people lookat it as an easy kill IF they can get there before the others.
4) Because of # 3, I like the game the way it is now a heck of a lot more than I'd like it the way some here seem to want it - essentially, just a bunch of DAs. I'm glad to have a decent co-e 1-1 fight sometimes, but I'd get bored very quickly if that's all there was.
From this comment I get the feeling that in most cases of a 1 vs 1 you end up on the losing side too often. To me it sounds like you have given up on being a good fighter and so feel saver in the horde. I have no idea who you are, and I'm not bashing you here, but thats just the way it sounds to me. People suggesting more combat, and you disagreeing with that.
5) Two things that are worse than anything anyone here is complaining about: alt-monkeys and whole-country gangbangs.
Alt-monkeys are worse because you can't avoid them. If you don't like 40-plane base captures, just fly somewhere else from where they're attacking. At any given time there are always going to be more people not doing that than doing it, and the ones doing it are all concentrated on 1 or 2 bases. But you can't avoid the alt-monkeys (there always seem to be 1 or 2 everywhere), you can't fight them if they won't commit, and you know if you try to fight someone else you'll just get picked. And who wants to spend 90% of their stick time just climbing, climbing, climbing? (Apparently some people...)
Alt monkeys are easy, fly low to middle alt and they will see you from their high perches. Of course you have to be able to fight if your flying down there or each flight is a couple minutes climb out a turn or two and your in the tower. Avoiding a Alt Monkeys passes are as easy to avoid as the HO, it just takes a little practice at a maneuver or two.
The country gangbangs are bad because they don't just offer an alternative to fighting, they make it all but impossible. It's one thing to fight against the odds, but another when you've got 2-1 odds or worse everywhere on the map and, as if that isn't enough, escorted raids of 3, 4, 5 Lanc boxes at 20,000 feet porking every field within 30 miles of the front. It's all fine getting a big local advantage, but what's the fun of making it impossible for the other side to put up a fight anywhere on the map? And in a 3-player game the whole ENY system is just pointless, because the advantage depends on the interaction of the countries more than the raw numbers for any one of them. Getting slammed everywhere while still having a 20 ENY is just ridiculous.
From this comment my guess is your a Knight, and a dedicated one at that (won't switch countries). It happens to every side. The think you have to do is play your game. Your looking at it like you have to win the war before you log off that night. Whats wrong with holding a base or two along the front for the night? Of course we could use your "Thats the way it was in WWII", but seeing as the side were never even in the war that doesn't fly so well.
5) Vulching uppers is establishing local air superiority. Vulching people trying to land is just pathetic (assuming that "vulching" = going in on a new target, not finishing off someone you were already fighting). What are you hoping to accomplish?
Call it what ever you want, its cheap kills. Horde mentality. Establishing local air superiority is having enough air support that any one trying to fly out of the ack coverage doesn't stand much of a chance. Of course that means knowing how to fight again, learning those pesky maneuvers to shot down a MANEUVERING plane
6) Has it occurred to you that that guy is "hiding in ack" because he knows if he doesn't he'll get slammed by someone from 10k up before he can get any speed and alt to fight? Because that's what happened to him within 10 seconds the last three times he left the ack? If you're complaining because you can't find anyone willing to enter a "fair fight," come down to his alt and burn off some e, then see if he'll come out of the ack. Or back off a couple of miles and let him come up. (And if someone in a faster plane goes through ack to lose you, all he's really doing is saving you both the bother of a 10-minute race you won't win anyway. If he's in a slower plane, you should have killed him before he got there, and if you don't want to deal with his ack, what are you doing so close it to begin with?)
I don't have a problem with people getting some alt and some speed in the ack. If they don't want to come out why are they bothering to come up there in the first place. Also, if he's getting hammered as soon as he steps out he might want to learn a think about air superiority. As mentioned above, it the enemy has it ack ain't going to save you. Up from another field and start your counter attack.
7) Just don't tune to 200 unless you're amused by it. And if you do find it amusing, why complain about it?
F### the forum. Just fly.
That's all the ranting I can do today. :furious :cry :rolleyes: :salute
It sounds to me you like it the way it is because you don't want to, or think you can't learn to survive with out your mega squad behind you, or at least hiding in the horde. The horde doesn't think strategically much so here's a tip. Next time the knights....or your country is getting ganged, you and a couple of your buddies up in some ponies, or 38s something with some long legs. Add a couple of bomb and up from a base 1 back from the front line. Climb to alt... at least 15k, and go behind enemy lines. There dive bomb the troops at each base along the front until all of you run out of bombs. If done correctly, you can stop the advancement along a whole front for more than an hour even when your out numbered.
To many people don't know "how" to play the game, they are too wrapped up in winning at all cost, HOin, hording, ganging, and running from the fights.
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iam a "newer" stick and iam going to put my 2 cents but something i have found is newer sticks thoughts really dont matter in MA and i bet in this forum. As a noob you get the game load it in and expect to just pick a plane and take off and see a guy and shoot him he dies. thats what you think is going to happen. Now what really does happen is you get on and have no clue how to do any thing my first flight was getting off the runway really took me a minute to find the right keys and get everything set. I asked questions no answer that seems to be a theme vet sticks dont help they just lol call you a noob or dont respond say go to the training channel even though no ones in there. anyway you get up you SEE your first enemy and he may be 5k up but you know no better and you try to climb to him stall out and get hammered in maybe the first 10 secs of real combat. you do things like that for a week or two and you start to only get into massive furballs where you arent the main target so maybe you can get your first kill by having a guy turn in front of you or something. I see no shame in this at that stage your still learning how to shoot. Now ganging a guy is the same you still mabye thirsting for your first kill as you didnt get this game for the scenery or the flying time. All these things the new guys do to learn things for them selfs people say that you learn nothing but coming into this game you know little to nothing so EVERY flight is a learning experience. Iam tired of the "vets" complaining about the new guys when they do nothing to help they dont care they stick with there vet buddies laughing at the noobs as they do something silly and dont tell the new guy what he did wrong all you "vets" should be the leaders of your countries people to go to to get help if you need it. i think if you helped a new guy instead of whining about there newbie tactics this would change.
Get up be a part of the solution instead of the problem. The learning curve in this game is huge and until you vets step up these tactic will keep on as they seem the most viable options for new pilots
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Most of the "vets" i know are nice people in the game. There are lots who have played a long time and run off at the mouth, but I dont consider them vets. They have just played long enough to get better at the game than others, and like to hear themselves talk.
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iam a "newer" stick and iam going to put my 2 cents but something i have found is newer sticks thoughts really dont matter in MA and i bet in this forum. As a noob you get the game load it in and expect to just pick a plane and take off and see a guy and shoot him he dies. thats what you think is going to happen. Now what really does happen is you get on and have no clue how to do any thing my first flight was getting off the runway really took me a minute to find the right keys and get everything set. I asked questions no answer that seems to be a theme vet sticks dont help they just lol call you a noob or dont respond say go to the training channel even though no ones in there. anyway you get up you SEE your first enemy and he may be 5k up but you know no better and you try to climb to him stall out and get hammered in maybe the first 10 secs of real combat. you do things like that for a week or two and you start to only get into massive furballs where you arent the main target so maybe you can get your first kill by having a guy turn in front of you or something. I see no shame in this at that stage your still learning how to shoot. Now ganging a guy is the same you still mabye thirsting for your first kill as you didnt get this game for the scenery or the flying time. All these things the new guys do to learn things for them selfs people say that you learn nothing but coming into this game you know little to nothing so EVERY flight is a learning experience. Iam tired of the "vets" complaining about the new guys when they do nothing to help they dont care they stick with there vet buddies laughing at the noobs as they do something silly and dont tell the new guy what he did wrong all you "vets" should be the leaders of your countries people to go to to get help if you need it. i think if you helped a new guy instead of whining about there newbie tactics this would change.
Get up be a part of the solution instead of the problem. The learning curve in this game is huge and until you vets step up these tactic will keep on as they seem the most viable options for new pilots
People aren't whining about "new" players in the sense of people who have just found these games a few months ago. They're whining about "new" in the generational sense. To give you some perspective, I've been playing these games for close to 11 years and I am still relatively "new" to the genre.
As far as no one helping you... Honestly, I don't think you've looked hard enough or in the right places. There are a great many players willing to help anyone that's willing to learn. However, the sort of person who has the patience and skill to help a first-week, first-time-flightsim new guy who hasn't read the manual is very rare. The more basic knowledge you can bring to a lesson, the greater the supply of helpers available to you.
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iam a "newer" stick and iam going to put my 2 cents but something i have found is newer sticks thoughts really dont matter in MA and i bet in this forum. As a noob you get the game load it in and expect to just pick a plane and take off and see a guy and shoot him he dies. thats what you think is going to happen. Now what really does happen is you get on and have no clue how to do any thing my first flight was getting off the runway really took me a minute to find the right keys and get everything set. I asked questions no answer that seems to be a theme vet sticks dont help they just lol call you a noob or dont respond say go to the training channel even though no ones in there. anyway you get up you SEE your first enemy and he may be 5k up but you know no better and you try to climb to him stall out and get hammered in maybe the first 10 secs of real combat. you do things like that for a week or two and you start to only get into massive furballs where you arent the main target so maybe you can get your first kill by having a guy turn in front of you or something. I see no shame in this at that stage your still learning how to shoot. Now ganging a guy is the same you still mabye thirsting for your first kill as you didnt get this game for the scenery or the flying time. All these things the new guys do to learn things for them selfs people say that you learn nothing but coming into this game you know little to nothing so EVERY flight is a learning experience. Iam tired of the "vets" complaining about the new guys when they do nothing to help they dont care they stick with there vet buddies laughing at the noobs as they do something silly and dont tell the new guy what he did wrong all you "vets" should be the leaders of your countries people to go to to get help if you need it. i think if you helped a new guy instead of whining about there newbie tactics this would change.
Get up be a part of the solution instead of the problem. The learning curve in this game is huge and until you vets step up these tactic will keep on as they seem the most viable options for new pilots
Kilo the Training Arena, Official Trainers, and Duel Arena are made for new players. There's also an AH Wiki (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/wiki/), and if you have feedback on that, it's welcome as well.. Suggestions on what you, as a new player, expect to see there.
The problem with asking questions in the MA is most likely that you (general you) come off as not having made any effort to look for answers on your own. Players in the MA simply can't hold your hand to lead you through everything.. AH is a game with a learning curve that's often steep and that lasts for years. Decades for some. It's also that the players are busy playing, incredible as that might seem. It's an engaging game. You often just can't afford distractions, nevermind taking your hands off the controls to type line after line (notice the text buffer input is fairly limited) of explaining... When it's all already neatly packaged on e.g. the Trainers' website.
There's also clinics. They're usually advertized in the Help & Training forum, and in fact there's one tonight.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,258846.0.html
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Kilo, most of the questions noobs have that don't get answered are not answered because the information is all there if someone would just do a little reading and prep work before they enter the arenas.
edit: like moot says.
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Kilo the Training Arena, Official Trainers, and Duel Arena are made for new players. There's also an AH Wiki (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/wiki/), and if you have feedback on that, it's welcome as well..
I'll take this opportunity to deliver the short version of my favorite AH2 complaint: this game REALLY needs a manual. A manual isn't going to teach people how to fly or fight, but it would address the myriad "How do I...?" questions that come up because the help files are so hopelessly incomplete and disorganized that the newbie *might* - or might not - be lucky enough to find an answer if he logs off and spends two or three hours slogging through them.
Yeah, everyone should read the help files, I did (and spent some time in offline training) before I ever logged on, but no one is going to remember all of them even after two or three read-throughs, and the big advantage with a decent manual is being able to quickly find something you know you've read before when you need to revisit it (like in flight).
Given the amount of time and effort HTC put into this game you'd think a simple pdf manual with everything under one "cover" wouldn't be much trouble in comparison. But I've noticed that computer games have gone further and further from the concept of meaningful, comprehensive game manuals over the last two decades. (With tabletop games the manual *has* to be thorough, because it has to serve as the game engine as well as the how-to guide for players.)
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I'll take this opportunity to deliver the short version of my favorite AH2 complaint: this game REALLY needs a manual. A manual isn't going to teach people how to fly or fight, but it would address the myriad "How do I...?" questions that come up because the help files are so hopelessly incomplete and disorganized that the newbie *might* - or might not - be lucky enough to find an answer if he logs off and spends two or three hours slogging through them.
Yeah, everyone should read the help files, I did (and spent some time in offline training) before I ever logged on, but no one is going to remember all of them even after two or three read-throughs, and the big advantage with a decent manual is being able to quickly find something you know you've read before when you need to revisit it (like in flight).
Given the amount of time and effort HTC put into this game you'd think a simple pdf manual with everything under one "cover" wouldn't be much trouble in comparison. But I've noticed that computer games have gone further and further from the concept of meaningful, comprehensive game manuals over the last two decades. (With tabletop games the manual *has* to be thorough, because it has to serve as the game engine as well as the how-to guide for players.)
Huh never noticed the "web page help" conveniently placed on the clipboard. :rolleyes:
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Huh never noticed the "web page help" conveniently placed on the clipboard. :rolleyes:
Yep. But many of us hate reading online text, plus while you are learning you have to write down shortcuts, etc on a piece of paper until you get them memorized/set your own up.
A manual you can download, in PDF format, would go a long ways to helping newer players learn the game. And if they print parts, they can even learn things while not able to get online. Or maybe even looking up things without having to alt-tab out to the website just to remember what key opens your chute ;)
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Yea because copy and paste is also way to difficult. :noid
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kilo2 your complaining about the very same people the rest of us are. You know why you didn't get any reasonable answers? Because most of the people flying today don't know the answers ! They have just stumble through and think they are the top dogs. Most of the vets log on and off quickly. Experience shows that the map type, or the way its sitting isn't going to show much fun and they move on either to another arena, or another game. I can say I've only seen one time some one asked about something in the game in the last few months, and I gave the answer to the best of my knowledge. I've been on the "help" channel of the radio and tried to help some, but even tho they are tuned, they don't want the help. Like you said, there is a big learning curve, but taking the time to learn it has it rewards!
Those of you complaining about the lack of a manual, there is a key on every keyboard I've ever seen, its called "print screen". Even if you can't figure out how to cut and paste, you can figure out how to hit that key. You may have to hit it a bunch of times to get all the information you want, but it does work !
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Yea because copy and paste is also way to difficult. :noid
The point isn't the "work around", the point is that most other games provide it.
Newbies are looking for those things. *I* look for those things. Easy access to the rules/controls/ideas go a lot farther than any forum post or web site. Frustration and work arounds can have them leave before they even know how good the game is.
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Huh never noticed the "web page help" conveniently placed on the clipboard. :rolleyes:
Sure, you have the technical ability to look things up while in the game, but what I'm saying is if it's going to take you an hour to find what you're looking for, or if what you're looking for just isn't in the help files at all, that doesn't do you much good, does it?
Ever play (original) Squad Leader?
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kilo2 your complaining about the very same people the rest of us are. You know why you didn't get any reasonable answers? Because most of the people flying today don't know the answers ! They have just stumble through and think they are the top dogs.
You don't see any relation to lack of knowledge and lack of readily available information?
I found it funny, the "but even tho they are tuned" section. Tuning the radio and using it is probably the largest reason that newer players don't ask for help ;)
Those of you complaining about the lack of a manual, there is a key on every keyboard I've ever seen, its called "print screen". Even if you can't figure out how to cut and paste, you can figure out how to hit that key. You may have to hit it a bunch of times to get all the information you want, but it does work !
Or you can do what I did and use a crawler program that went through the entire help site and turned it into a PDF. That doesn't retract from the point that it should already be available, without the potential user having to do it themselves.
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The point isn't the "work around", the point is that most other games provide it.
Newbies are looking for those things. *I* look for those things. Easy access to the rules/controls/ideas go a lot farther than any forum post or web site. Frustration and work arounds can have them leave before they even know how good the game is.
Work around? The problem is the need for instant gratification. Instead of down loading the game clicking on an arena and essentially demanding help.... Try downloading the game get familiar with it off-line, checking with web page help when stuck. I know.. that is just way too much effort, spamming country channel with "How come my plane wont move?"is so much simpler. :aok
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I think a comprehensive manual from HTC would be a good thing; it's a mark of professional quality.
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I think a comprehensive manual from HTC would be a good thing; it's a mark of professional quality.
So are you saying HTC lacks this "professional quality"?
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If you don't fight how can you learn to fight?
They are shot down in huge numbers ...look at the k/d :rolleyes: However if they step outside the horde and learn a few maneuvers that might get better, and have more fun. I always though living longer and getting more kills was a LOT more fun than dieing 5 times to ever kill I could get.
True, that is a good point, but it's a steep learning curve and frustrating process, and I don't think wanting to get a kill or three in one's first few weeks in the game is needing "instant gratification." Learning is fun, and leads to fun, but killing now and again is more fun than dying all the time.
blah blah blad WWII blah blah blah. This isn't WWII !
That's a meaningless point, because it can excuse anything. Sharks with laser beams are fun once in a great while, but you don't want them every day, because the game exists within certain parameters and the gist of those parameters is WW2 tactical air combat, with some of the nasty and unfun bits (people really dying, flying for hours and never seeing the enemy) taken out.
From this comment I get the feeling that in most cases of a 1 vs 1 you end up on the losing side too often. To me it sounds like you have given up on being a good fighter and so feel saver in the horde.
Every time I lose is once too often! :cry But no, it isn't that at all, really. I love a good fight. I do fly some big missions, but for a different reason. ("I love it when a plan comes together...")
As far as fighting goes, it's not that I always want an advantage, it's that I consider two or three folks minimum working together against a roughly similar group of enemy planes, or maybe a 20+ plane furball, with a variety of situations going in to be much more fun and interesting than endless 1-1 duels. You need just as much skill to consistently kill and survive in a moderate or large group, if you're willing to get in and mix it up against similar numbers, but the number and complexity of your decisions is much higher. However, the complexity of those situations open the window for some of the behaviors discussed here - for instance, the line between gangbanging and group tactics is a lot hazier when the 21st plane joins 20 others mixing it up than for the 3rd plane joining two others fighting each other. At that point it's hard to draw a bright line. At what point is it no longer gangbanging - 2-1? 3-2? 6-5? All you can really do is criticize the extreme end of the spectrum, but there's always going to be one guy whose definition of "extreme" is different from yours.
To me, that's just part of the action. I'm saying I prefer wide-open, anything goes action even though some will abuse it to a more stiff and formal game where everyone just flies around looking for one opponent to fight without any context. For example, as I said, the alt-monkeying irritates me, but I would rather have that than some heavy-handed rule trying to make everyone always fight co-alt.
I have no idea who you are, and I'm not bashing you here,
I fly as Loki - I've just been too lazy to set up a forums ID with that name. I should do that. And I appreciate the politeness, but if anyone thinks a bash is warranted, feel free - forums, like ch. 200, should be avoided by the thin-skinned!
People suggesting more combat, and you disagreeing with that.
No, I don't disagree with combat - it's the type of combat some seem to want, and even moreso the limitations that would be necessary to make it happen.
From this comment my guess is your a Knight, and a dedicated one at that (won't switch countries).
Yup. And it's not so much wanting to win the war, it's the frustrating lack of options it causes. When all the front-line bases have VHs down and/or hangers camped, and then the second-line bases start getting whacked too, it becomes difficult to find a place where you can even up a GV, much less have a decent fight.
Also, if he's getting hammered as soon as he steps out he might want to learn a think about air superiority. As mentioned above, it the enemy has it ack ain't going to save you. Up from another field and start your counter attack.
Sure. If I get vulched twice at the same field I kick myself for being stupid, not the other guy for recognizing and taking advantage of my stupidity. I'm just saying stones, glass houses, etc.
It sounds to me you like it the way it is because you don't want to, or think you can't learn to survive with out your mega squad behind you,
I don't have a squad, mega- or mini-. There are some folks I particularly enjoy flying with, but I fly solo as often than not. If I run into you while I'm wandering around the map, I promise I'll do my best to give you an interesting fight!
To many people don't know "how" to play the game, they are too wrapped up in winning at all cost, HOin, hording, ganging, and running from the fights.
But who gets to decide how the game is properly played?
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When a single person enters a fight while severally out numbered and he dies he is considered a fool of sorts but if he wins he is considered brave. that ideology makes no sense as the initial act of entering such a situation is foolish to begin with regardless of the end product. Often times those that did enter that type of situation lacked the understanding of the whole war effort. There are exceptions to this but were far and few between but for the most part they were considered reckless and out of the ordinary.
There is one thing to turn on the face of an overwhelming enemy while on a mission or raid and it's something completely different to be the only friendly in the air and dive in to a gaggle..
While I haven't flown in a while, I do believe this still holds true.
No one dies, planes are free.
Why not wade in and fight?
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Well, all the information is there, but it's not always organized well, and it doesn't seem to all be in once place. So... yes. :D
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Well, all the information is there, but it's not always organized well, and it doesn't seem to all be in once place. So... yes. :D
I guess clicking help on the home page doesn't bring you to the relevant info.
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I guess clicking help on the home page doesn't bring you to the relevant info.
That's not what I said, nor is it what I believe.
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While I haven't flown in a while, I do believe this still holds true.
No one dies, planes are free.
Why not wade in and fight?
That's a good question.
I guess for me, while avoiding dying is no more the point of playing AH2 than avoiding losing was the point of playing Little League baseball, still, you hate to lose. You should hate to lose or you're not committed enough to the game. It's a matter of balance. If losing ruins your whole day, or incites you to cheat or to play dirty so you never learn how to win clean, or if you can't stand to risk losing in order to get a shot at winning, you hate it too much. And if you never lost it would be boring and pointless... but still... you hate to lose.
It's one of those paradoxes of the human spirit, I guess.
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Perhaps you need a .squelch forums command..... :devil
Nah, I don't take it that seriously. It's just something to do, the arguments don't affect my enjoyment of the game one way or another, but I have learned a lot of things I find useful.
Some people just seem to get so worked up in here!
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I guess clicking help on the home page doesn't bring you to the relevant info.
Actually no. But then you are purposely being difficult
Examples, you are going to say next.....
Want to know how to Zoom? Cool, click Z. But wait, you can use your [ ] keys to get better control or closer when you are using a GV? Hmm, reference location in the official help section: using Shore Batteries :huh
I'm not saying the information isn't there, I'm saying that it isn't easy to get too. Do you want people flying? Or do you want them searching for the information they want. MANUALS are a standard part of programs, the lack of one in AcesHigh does reflect on it. The overall goal is for players to be more versed with the game, how it works and what they can do. Adding a manual will increase those areas, while the game itself alters slowly enough that it wouldn't take undo effort on HTC's part to keep one up to date.
As far as me figuring out things by myself, been there done that, don't mistake the lack of age in this account as if I've never played before. Plus I've been playing Eve Online for the last 3.5 years. Talk about lack of information in official channels :rolleyes:
AH2 and Eve are about the only programs I can't snap back at someone to RTFM...
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I just don't understand why people are complaining...
If you want better game experience take the the time to pass your knowledge to the people who are not hacking it according to you standards....
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umm... I'm just kinda jumping and reading info, but how about like a quick tutorial on how to take off when you start? It's mandatory, just tells you what to do.
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You don't see any relation to lack of knowledge and lack of readily available information?
I found it funny, the "but even tho they are tuned" section. Tuning the radio and using it is probably the largest reason that newer players don't ask for help ;)Or you can do what I did and use a crawler program that went through the entire help site and turned it into a PDF. That doesn't retract from the point that it should already be available, without the potential user having to do it themselves.
There is an actual "help" radio channel, and you have to tune it to use it. This guy just didn't want to bother with setting things up right, he just wanted to fly and kill things. He was answering, but I guess I didn't have any "codes" to make things easier so he wasn't interested.
If you have a pdf file of the help page, post it. Maybe someone will find it useful, maybe they will post it as a downloadable file on the help page.
umm... I'm just kinda jumping and reading info, but how about like a quick tutorial on how to take off when you start? It's mandatory, just tells you what to do.
Working with the training team I have come up with a number of training tutorials in a flash setup. Murdr has 3 of the 6 poster on the Trainers Files (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/files/files.htm). I would love to do an interactive one walking you through the first flight, but the files would be huge. Seeing as this a "downloaded" game and not a box set you don't have the same luxuries. The information is there for those who wish to find it. Todays player expects to jump in learn a couple of key commands and be on their way. My sons have hundreds of games and I think each and every instruction manual is in pristine condition. They have never been opened. Todays player just doesn't want to use the information that is available, its just the way they play. Its the games they have played before that have molded them into this type of player.
Aces High is much more involved as a game. The game play mechanics just in controls is daunting. Have you ever tried to find an open key to remap something? Good luck, most of them are used already. Then there are the game play mechanics themselves. Tactical, strategic, offensive, defensive, air, land, sea. This stuff can't be learned over night, but most player these days come in learn a couple things and stop.....its just too much trouble. They can succeed as they are in their horde, or under their NOE, or with their "gang". Being the best turd in the bowl still leaves you as only a turd.
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I just don't understand why people are complaining...
If you want better game experience take the the time to pass your knowledge to the people who are not hacking it according to you standards....
I think if you look at the majority of the folks who have concerns, you'll find they've done exactly what you've suggested and then some.
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The information is there for those who wish to find it.
Even after a very long time playing aviation games - and a fair amount of time playing Aces High - I find it difficult to locate useful information on the game. Even AirWarrior had a manual that took you from hanger to sky in a few pages. It shouldn't be that hard to do a "Quick Start" guide for this game. There's really quite a lot to absorb here before you can do even the simplest thing - for example, the initial nightmare of figuring out how to set up your joystick and keyboard. Finding the online help, much less wading through it and making sense out of it, could be a lot easier. The development history of AH - started by an expert, for other experts - shows through in the amount of background knowledge the game implicitly expects from participants.
On the other hand: AirWarrior had a very prominent warning, right at the beginning of its manual, that informed the player he was expected already to be familiar with the basics of a flight simulator. Wouldn't hurt to have something like that here, either.
- oldman
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iam not a uber noob i played for about a year 2 years ago but i was a first time flight sim first time ah guy i think something when you first start up to give you the basics would be nice like taking off for instance. the quality of fights wont change i quess in the end to each his own if you want to fly in the horde all the time so be it i do but i also get away from the horde its not going to change as i recall the is the da for all you.
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iam not uh uber noob ah played fo' about uh year 2 years ago but ah wuz uh first tyme flight sim first tyme ah guy ah th'o't sumfin when ya first start up ta give ya da basics would be nice like taking off fo' instance. da quality o' fights wont change ah quess in da end ta each his own if ya wants ta fly in da horde all da tyme so be it ah do but ah also git away from da horde its not going ta change as ah recall da iz da da fo' all ya. what 'chew trippin foo'
In case others like me had a tough time understanding what you posted, I put it through the Ebonics translator so we can understand what you wrote.
ack-ack
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I guess for me, while avoiding dying is no more the point of playing AH2 than avoiding losing was the point of playing Little League baseball, still, you hate to lose. You should hate to lose or you're not committed enough to the game. It's a matter of balance. If losing ruins your whole day, or incites you to cheat or to play dirty so you never learn how to win clean, or if you can't stand to risk losing in order to get a shot at winning, you hate it too much. And if you never lost it would be boring and pointless... but still... you hate to lose.
It's one of those paradoxes of the human spirit, I guess.
No, it's not. You either play to win, or you lose. That's life. Deal with it.
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iam not a uber noob i played for about a year 2 years ago but i was a first time flight sim first time ah guy i think something when you first start up to give you the basics would be nice like taking off for instance. the quality of fights wont change i quess in the end to each his own if you want to fly in the horde all the time so be it i do but i also get away from the horde its not going to change as i recall the is the da for all you.
Was it also the first time you were exposed to the English language?
:confused:
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iam not a uber noob i played for about a year 2 years ago, But i was a first time flight sim guy and a first time AH2 player at one point. i think something when you first start up to give you the basics would be nice, like taking off for instance. The quality of fights wont change. i quess in the end to each his own if you want to fly in the horde all the time so be it i do but i also get away from the horde its not going to change as i recall there is the DA for all you.
to any one who made fun of the first post the first sentence was screwed up doesn't mean the rest was get lives d-bags :D
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You mean get a life, sweetheartbags.
:aok
Capitalization helps also in getting your point across. At least you got the paragraph part half right.
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Dude when I call you a d-bag i dont have to make it perfect. The point got across. Who made you the english writing police of the forum anyway.
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I did.
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Sadly, there are better fights on the forums than in the skies of AH lately. :(
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Kilo is working on his flying and he doesnt post much. Like him I didnt bother to edit things or worry about punctuation when I started posting and I agree with him it isnt that hard to figure out what he means. Im sure also you are poking fun at him for the entertainment so why are you doing that? :confused:
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When I first joined this game, it was my first ever online flight sim - so I took the time to find out how things worked etc. I've played a lot of other sims, so maybe that helped, but I've never had trouble finding training partners here.
Finding various pages here isnt the most instinctual, but once you get used to it, its easy enough (thank heavens you can save favourites). On the ethos of Guppy, thats what I like to do, go find a fight, win or lose (I mostly lose obvoiusly) and get a nice shiney plane after it.
Attached a film of me vs a few, this is not a slam on them, I put myself there, and had a massive amount of fun on this sortie.
http://www.4shared.com/dir/12693122/cf45463d/sharing.html (http://www.4shared.com/dir/12693122/cf45463d/sharing.html)
Its the one marked 1 v 8 spit 9 - first 6 mins can be ignored, as thats just me flying to the fight. That was a quite intense (for me) fight, and thoroughly enjoyable.
<S>
Wurzel
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I find it is not the questions of "Hey my mouse pointer wont move, what gives?" that draws the ire of the majority of "vets". It's the "How do I start this GV...how come it wont move... how do I put my gear down... ect...ect...ect ?" do.
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You don't see any relation to lack of knowledge and lack of readily available information?
I found it funny, the "but even tho they are tuned" section. Tuning the radio and using it is probably the largest reason that newer players don't ask for help ;)Or you can do what I did and use a crawler program that went through the entire help site and turned it into a PDF. That doesn't retract from the point that it should already be available, without the potential user having to do it themselves.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,257040.0.html
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The best fights occur between 3 and 6 am eastern. How I know this is because its about the time I get off work over here in Korea. Its about 90 people in a arena going at it and usally theres 1 good furball. Tonight it was very interesting getting ganged by muppets :D but Grizz stayed out this one time and let me and Agent360 go at it, <S> Agent probably my best fight yet, even though your G14 ended up ripping my LA7 in half :cry :D :salute
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Actually no. But then you are purposely being difficult
Examples, you are going to say next.....
Want to know how to Zoom? Cool, click Z. But wait, you can use your [ ] keys to get better control or closer when you are using a GV? Hmm, reference location in the official help section: using Shore Batteries :huh
It tells about the zoom functions, in of all places under the View System (http://www2.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/views.html) in The Help Files (http://www.hitechcreations.com/frameset1.html?ahhelp/index.html)
Or, you could download the key command cheat sheet One page quick reference (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/quickref/quickref.pdf) from the Trainers Site (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com) which also has that same information along with just about any key command you'd want to know.
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I am not a uber noob I played for about a year, 2 years ago. I was a first time flight sim guy and a first time AH2 player at one point. I think there should be something when you first start up. Something to give you the basics would be nice, like taking off for instance. The quality of fights wont change. I guess in the end to each his own. If you want to fly in the horde all the time so be it. I do, but i also get away from the horde. It's not going to change. As i recall there is the DA for all of you.
To any one who made fun of the first post the first sentence was screwed up. It doesn't mean the rest was! Get lives d-bags :D
If you won't take a minute to type your message properly, we know you won't bother to take the time to learn to fly well either. That's why you fly in the horde, you KNOW you won't survive out side of it. If you spent an hour a night with a trainer for 5 days you would be in the top 500 of this game as far as skilled players goes. Maybe your content to play a mediocre style among other mediocre players....which in it self is a sad commentary on life.... wanting to be mediocre instead of trying to excel.
The quality of fights HAS changed, it has gone down hill like you wouldn't believe ! By trying to make other aware, and teaching them to play the game better the quality of not only the fights will get better, the quality of the game play will get better.
That's what we are saying here, take the time to learn to play the game well. You don't know how much fun your missing out on !
btw kilo2 whats your ingame name?
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I hope it doesn't offend those of you who have put your time and resources into the documentation for AH that we still say a comprehensive manual would be a good thing. I really appreciate all the work that's been done so for far and have found it very helpful.
However, I grew up with flight sims that had manuals, and I loved to read them, most especially Microsoft Flight Simulator and Falcon 3. Heck, as a kid I even liked to read the dynamix manual for red baron. What makes a good manual for just about anything is that one person is responsible for the finished product; you can tell the difference between that and something that's an amalgamation from multiple people, added to at different times, and without a lot of editing. For example, murdr, the padlock view doesn't seem to be included on that page of the helpfile, but it is part of the viewing system.
I spent some time writing/editing manuals at a job I used to have and it is not easy, but the benefit of a finished product is that all of the information can be found from one, definitive source. You can read it cover to back and say "now I know."
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As far as I can tell, centralizing all the learning resources in one spot is being worked on right now. If any of you guys replying here could add your bit of useful info to the AHWiki, it'd help things along that bit further.
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If you won't take a minute to type your message properly, we know you won't bother to take the time to learn to fly well either. That's why you fly in the horde, you KNOW you won't survive out side of it. If you spent an hour a night with a trainer for 5 days you would be in the top 500 of this game as far as skilled players goes. Maybe your content to play a mediocre style among other mediocre players....which in it self is a sad commentary on life.... wanting to be mediocre instead of trying to excel.
The quality of fights HAS changed, it has gone down hill like you wouldn't believe ! By trying to make other aware, and teaching them to play the game better the quality of not only the fights will get better, the quality of the game play will get better.
That's what we are saying here, take the time to learn to play the game well. You don't know how much fun your missing out on !
btw kilo2 whats your ingame name?
How can you sit there and chastise another for the way he/she types when you can not even be bothered to police your own post?
Here is your post making sense:
That's why you fly in a horde; you know you won't survive outside of it. If you will not take a minute to type your message properly, we know you will not be bothered to take the time and learn to fly well. Here is a bit of advice, if you spend one hour a night for five days with a trainer you could end up scoring more kills, achieving a much higher ranking and eventually earn a little respect from the top sticks of this game. However you might be content being labeled as just another mediocre player. In the end this is your choice, you either chose to excel and take the knowledge that is being passed down through practice or you don’t. I find that last one to be a sad commentary on life, who in their right mind would strive to learn nothing?
The quality of fights has recently changed for the worst; it has gone downhill like you wouldn't believe! If every member tried to make others, especially the newer guys aware of their mistakes and produced a working solution to the individual making the mistake the fights would get better and the quality of the game play would drastically improve as well
That's what we are saying here; take the time to learn to play the game. You don't know how much fun you’re missing out on!
BTW kilo2, what’s your in game name?
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As far as I can tell, centralizing all the learning resources in one spot is being worked on right now. If any of you guys replying here could add your bit of useful info to the AHWiki, it'd help things along that bit further.
Some people prefer to just whine about things and lack of contribution rather than actually contributing :furious.
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How can you sit there and chastise another for the way he/she types when you can not even be bothered to police your own post?
Here is your post making sense:
I'm sorry I was correcting his "texted type" spelling and punctuation with some simple english. You on the other seem to want to talk down to us from your "intellectual" high horse. I believe my post made very good sense with out adding a lot of extra words.
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Nope, that's not what I do.
You validated both of our points with the last part of your statement. If the statement can be understood than there should be no issue as to how it gets typed.
Try not to focus on how an individual types as it's far more important to focus on what they are saying.
I believe my post made very good sense with out adding a lot of extra words
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Nope, that's not what I do.
You validated both of our points with the last part of your statement. If the statement can be understood than there should be no issue as to how it gets typed.
Try not to focus on how an individual types as it's far more important to focus on what they are saying.
I wasn't focusing on it other than to use it to prove my point. His post was a mess, and when called on it he said only part of it was messed up and to get a life. Which tells me that he can't be bothered with even TRYING to get it right. My point was that if he doesn't want to bother to get it right there, then most likely he can't be bother to get it right when it comes to the game.
You on the other hand, instead of adding to this thread would rather turn it to an english lesson.
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Man, I agree with you; the fact remains that you do not like it when some corrects your posts so don't do it to others.
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Man, I agree with you. The fact remains that you do not like it when someone corrects your posts. Don't do it to others.
Improper semi-colon use.
Poor sentence structure.
Elementary use of conjunctions to bridge if/than points of discussion.
There is always someone more articulate.
Thanks.
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Im sure also you are poking fun at him for the entertainment so why are you doing that? :confused:
Because it's entertaining.
ack-ack
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The semicolon is used properly. There is nothing wrong with the sentence structure other than using a comma after "posts". The correction to the "some" to "someone" is a fair one.
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Wow, where did this conversation go? :rolleyes:
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Wow, where did this conversation go? :rolleyes:
All internet-based discussions involving difference of opinion ultimately end up traveling one of two possible avenues:
1.) Why the subject matter, or those actively defending a viewpoint with respect to the subject matter, are comparable to Nazi's and/or Nazi Germany.
OR
2.) Grammar policing actions.
This is a constant more predictable than gravity and is a surefire sign that the thread has run its course.
Skuzzy will be along shortly.
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Because it's entertaining.
ack-ack
Arent you employing a conjunction as a preposition without resolution? :D My English teacher would have you in a dunce cap or writing the corrected sentence 100 times in print (no cursive).
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My English teacher would have you in a dunce cap or writing the corrected sentence 100 times in print (no cursive).
Clearly you attended school prior to a student being able to sue a school district for emotional distress (dunce cap) or have a teacher arrested under suspicion of torture (handwriting assignment).
The way I figure, kids today are just screwy. What 6th grade male in their right mind would press charges against the hot blond math teacher boning him in the utilities closet after gym class?
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http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,257040.0.html
Buried on what page?
:aok
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<---afraid to type anything on this topic. :uhoh
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hehehe ... I get a kick out of the college boys I see working in the engineering area. Most are useless to the point where I'm cautious crossing a bridge. I'd much rather see someone with common sense as it is much more valuable.
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The hypocrisy of the general loudmouth AH player is great. This is what rubs me the wrong way.
It's unfortunate I have to turn 200 off because sometimes people have interesting things to say (those rare occasions) or want to talk about a nice fight.
Often there'll just be those crying and calling your name out about something they were doing themselves just 10 minutes ago (for instance clearing someones six after they asked you for help). It baffles me, and makes me forget that there's a lot of decent people in this game. Not just a bunch of keyboard warriors. Most of the time I ignore them but sometimes I'm baited into a meaningless "discussion" where the other guy is pretending like he never cared in the first place... If these people actually acted in the same way in real life situations their social dysfunction would be glaring- their faces beaten to a bloody pulp (piss off enough people...). The internet is a love muffin's haven to do and say however he pleases without any real repercussions, and so he shall.
I spend half of my time in DA for quality fights. In MA I expect random noodles to happen, that's half of what makes it fun.. I just don't throw my toys out when things dont go my wayyyy- sometimes when im lucky ill find a random and interesting matchup. Where skills and plane choice even out, you can't construct this however, but I will try nontheless.
I'll concede however, criers make me :cry so perhaps I'm a hypocrite as well :noid but ill stand for not opening up with a cry when im picked/attacked by superior plane/done at disadvantage.
So something I stress more than quality of fight is quality of communication/interaction. Instead of creating this ridiculous self righteous wiseguy atmosphere (im right even when im wrong). This more than anything would create a willingness to "fight" a guy than to pull all the advantages and just kill him and his big mouth (cause really, a jagass like that you just want to punish and you do that by giving him what he hates).
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The hypocrisy of the general loudmouth AH player is great. This is what rubs me the wrong way.
It's unfortunate I have to turn 200 off because sometimes people have interesting things to say (those rare occasions) or want to talk about a nice fight.
Often there'll just be those crying and calling your name out about something they were doing themselves just 10 minutes ago (for instance clearing someones six after they asked you for help). It baffles me, and makes me forget that there's a lot of decent people in this game. Not just a bunch of keyboard warriors. Most of the time I ignore them but sometimes I'm baited into a meaningless "discussion" where the other guy is pretending like he never cared in the first place... If these people actually acted in the same way in real life situations their social dysfunction would be glaring- their faces beaten to a bloody pulp (piss off enough people...). The internet is a love muffin's haven to do and say however he pleases without any real repercussions, and so he shall.
I spend half of my time in DA for quality fights. In MA I expect random noodles to happen, that's half of what makes it fun.. I just don't throw my toys out when things dont go my wayyyy- sometimes when im lucky ill find a random and interesting matchup. Where skills and plane choice even out, you can't construct this however, but I will try nontheless.
I'll concede however, criers make me :cry so perhaps I'm a hypocrite as well :noid but ill stand for not opening up with a cry when im picked/attacked by superior plane/done at disadvantage.
So something I stress more than quality of fight is quality of communication/interaction. Instead of creating this ridiculous self righteous wiseguy atmosphere (im right even when im wrong). This more than anything would create a willingness to "fight" a guy than to pull all the advantages and just kill him and his big mouth (cause really, a jagass like that you just want to punish and you do that by giving him what he hates).
How am I supposed to call you a silly your-0-tard metrosexual beyotch if you never tune 200?
Welcome back btw.
:aok
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just cause i use 4 types of lotion doesn't mean im metrosexual it might just mean i "watch" a lot of p0rn.. ok it means im metrosexual, like that time i was in a mudbath n they put the cucumbers on my eyes that was pretty gay but then it wasnt because I like chicks and chicks like it when you have smooth skin. except the ones who like rugged miners and stuff.
thanks for the warm welcome :aok :rofl