Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: The Fugitive on April 06, 2009, 02:27:04 PM
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I spent some time in the DA today at the furball area. Anyone who knows me knows my aim is terrible. I got tired of shooting AI in the off-line mission and thought if I hit furball lake a bit I could practice my shooting.
To understand my point of view, I understand a furball as a free for all. Twist and turn, fight till dead and grab a new plane and come back. I did have a couple of good fights, 5 minutes of fun (lost one won one) out of over an hour. The rest of the time was nothing but HOs, runnning, and cherry pickers from high alt. A poor place to practice, lesson learned.
The problem is the new guys who are just getting started end up there and are being taught that this is how the game is played. I saw one guy in there today that was so excited about his first kill....which he died trying to get, but even so was ecstatic at the kill. I called one guy out for running home in his temp so he could land his 2 kills :rolleyes: His excuse was he was out of ammo, big deal fight it out! that's what the arena is suppose to be about. I'll give you a fight even if I only have half a wing, I can learn from that, everyone knows how to run. While trying to get my point across one of those cherrypickers (707200) decided to butt in and defend that "style" of play. By the time I left, the new guy who was so pumped about his first kill was getting instrution on how to get more.... stay fast and pick guys off of other planes and so on. Another one lost to the stupidity that is allow to fester in that swamp.
Its sad when you can't even get a fight in the DA any more, and now we have the new "trainees" learning this crap from this pond scum. "Yee Hahh!"
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ive noticed that the skill level in the MA has plummeted in the past couple months. IMO training isn't being pushed hard enough. New players should get automated emails explaining to them were they can find resources to learn what is going on. There should always be a MOTD in the arena. One of the items that should always be on it is where and how to find training. A lot of players never look at the main site. They just dive right in to the MA without even reading basic instructions. A nice series of intro videos would do a lot of good. Just the basics. What all the parts of the airplane do, how to control each part in the game, the commands, etc.. Maybe even have a film room button in the game. When you click it, you get sent to a briefing room with a projector. From there you can watch whatever videos are available..right in the game. Experienced players could upload their own videos to the system, to be approved by HTC. Its just a thought. I think if you get everyone setup with the basics quickly, their learning curve will be significantly diminished, and they will be encouraged to learn more. Another benefit may be higher retention rates of players who would otherwise get frustrated and leave because they suck so bad.
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Hell yeah!! When the FNG's get to the main after the poor practice in the DA all of the skilled sticks should be helping them improve their game play. Stop with the rude comments and get in there and help them. Turn them into the pile-its you would like to see in the MA.
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The attitudes of the players has had more effect on the game than anything else. Too many "self-appointed sh*t-hot sticks" who are notorious for other things.
I now just play the game and laugh at the ineptness of others, claiming "greatness."
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killer G ventured out of the furball lake this AM,
He proceeded to interrupt mine and perv's 1vs1 session without responding to country or 200 chat. I make a fool of his C Hog 4 times in a row and then he goes back to his furball lake and starts talking to some other guys that had joined the arena.
Now I dont mind the odd noob upping into a fight because he cant see anything else on. But knowingly interfering and then ignoring people?? come on wtf!!! he obviously found it entertaining in some way.
All it needs is some manners. "Can i fight with you guys?" or "let me watch" would have been better. No excuse for what he did. wasting a good 10 minutes of my precious time to school the guy.
To top it off he even went on to land 2 kills in a spit 16. He needed a cig after that, hard bloody work. :rolleyes:
all the more :pray for private H2H arenas for subscibers.
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I am a new player and have the problem of hitting even a windmill with my guns so I joined a squad.
They have helped me more in a day than the DA could in six months!
I sugest new ones ask a squad or the traing arena ! it helped me .There are a lot of good people here who will help not just hinder the new players just to get an easy kill.
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Bruv, I've asked green guys to stay out and i think just gets them a bit more intent on busting a 1v1 up. Furball Bog is what it is.
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The attitudes of the players has had more effect on the game than anything else. Too many "self-appointed sh*t-hot sticks" who are notorious for other things.
Chicken / Egg.
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Bruv, I've asked green guys to stay out and i think just gets them a bit more intent on busting a 1v1 up. Furball Bog is what it is.
we werent in the furball lake! I realise what the lake is all about i just don't want to see numbskulls coming out of the lake trying to stir watermelon up when they should know better.
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I have stayed out of the DA for this reason. I don't think I have ever seen as many skill-less HOing, picking, running, no fighting, ganging, n00bs in one place (except for when the CLAIM JUMPERS are in the MA :D)
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I spent some time in the DA today at the furball area. Anyone who knows me knows my aim is terrible. I got tired of shooting AI in the off-line mission and thought if I hit furball lake a bit I could practice my shooting.
To understand my point of view, I understand a furball as a free for all. Twist and turn, fight till dead and grab a new plane and come back. I did have a couple of good fights, 5 minutes of fun (lost one won one) out of over an hour. The rest of the time was nothing but HOs, runnning, and cherry pickers from high alt. A poor place to practice, lesson learned.
The problem is the new guys who are just getting started end up there and are being taught that this is how the game is played. I saw one guy in there today that was so excited about his first kill....which he died trying to get, but even so was ecstatic at the kill. I called one guy out for running home in his temp so he could land his 2 kills :rolleyes: His excuse was he was out of ammo, big deal fight it out! that's what the arena is suppose to be about. I'll give you a fight even if I only have half a wing, I can learn from that, everyone knows how to run. While trying to get my point across one of those cherrypickers (707200) decided to butt in and defend that "style" of play. By the time I left, the new guy who was so pumped about his first kill was getting instrution on how to get more.... stay fast and pick guys off of other planes and so on. Another one lost to the stupidity that is allow to fester in that swamp.
Its sad when you can't even get a fight in the DA any more, and now we have the new "trainees" learning this crap from this pond scum. "Yee Hahh!"
I agree the new member to AH should not be allowed in the DA and should be routed to the Training Arena until some kind of in game time limit expires this way they could get the proper introduction to how the game should be played.
I had a second idea of having a select number of volunteer Squads hosting paying new comers to the game to help get them correctly acclimated or at least pointed in the right direction.
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I agree the new member to AH should not be allowed in the DA and should be routed to the Training Arena until some kind of in game time limit expires this way they could get the proper introduction to how the game should be played.
I had a second idea of having a select number of volunteer Squads hosting paying new comers to the game to help get them correctly acclimated or at least pointed in the right direction.
It's not the new player that makes the Furball Lake a cesspool. It's the "Furball Vet" who becomes a terrible role model for the new player. It's cyclical. Bad players teaching new players how to play bad and passing the torch on.
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It's too bad that new players skip over the TA and jump right into the DA. It would be kind of cool if there was a way to forcefully funnel new guys into the TA for a minimum x hours before allowed in any other arenas. The guys in the TA do a great job showing people the ropes and practicing ACM in there is a lot easier than against guys who just want to pad a useless score in the DA with their HOing Temps, Spit16s and N1ks.
I think the DA would really clean up if that cycle Grizz mentions was broken by exposing newbies to the benefits of the TA right away.
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There is no concrete solution aside from a drastic face lift to the way the dueling arena operates.
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ive noticed that the skill level in the MA has plummeted in the past couple months.
Maybe you are just getting better.
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Maybe you are just getting better.
Unfortunately, I plateaued a long time ago. My mind is slowing down and my urge to learn anything new in this game is diminished. Not to say I don't have fun..I have a lot of fun. I just have put all the work i'm willing to put in. But it would be nice if some of the newer players had an easier way to learn if they wanted to. It was just an idea i was throwing out there. I used to be a trainer in AirWarrior, and it seemed like they promoted it more. Maybe it was just because I was apart of it that it seemed that way. Anyway, I know that If a new player just spent a couple of sessions with one of our trainers, they would see incredible improvement in a matter of hours instead of months. A lot of new players just don't know any better.
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The skill level in AH has been plummeting for a long time now....I cant imagine that it can get much worse.
Even fighting a gangbang of 3v1 or more isnt even that challenging anymore. Back in the day AH1 and couple years into AH2 fighting 3v1 even a 2v1 was lucky to win, now its just sad that might not even break a sweat winning it.
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I think we should just do away with furball lake its self. i hopped in there yesterday and noticed how many HO'ers,pickers and gange tards there are.I noticed that these "skills" are popping up in the MA's and making it SUCK!.Especially the new guys who hop into the DA getting a few kills and using those same methods in the MA.Oh and i noticed if you see a typh its a temp if you see a f4u its 4hog.......just my two cents :salute
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another one of these :noid
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another one of these :noid
You may enjoy wallowing around in filth, but most of us don't think the new generation should be brought up in it.
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I think you have to want to learn on here. I spend alot of time looking up moves online and trying them in MA, and Iam still learning. I think
1v1s in the DA are the best way to learn. Co alt no Hos good times. Not all "noobs" are bad players.
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They pay the bill, they them get the thrill.
Let me tell you something. ww2online died for this very reason (pretty much). They forced people to play how they felt would foster a bigger environment. aka brigade spawning. Too confusing, too few battles, too long until battle, too many chiefs.
You NEED the unwashed masses to pay their taxes. :)
Let them do whatever they need to to enjoy the game. Try to guide them toward the fun, not toward YOUR form of fun. I know it's frustrating but hey let me tell you, when I started people like LippyCH and other CH folks gave me tips, as did the rest of the community.
I never heard sh*t like hit alt-f4 d00d like so many prettythanghats are doing today to the n00bs. (not that it isn't still occasionally funny...but that's beside the point)
Eventually they will get in line and follow the status qua
S
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I do not lie awake at night worrying that my future targets will be insufficiently skilled.
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I do not lie awake at night worrying that my future targets will be insufficiently skilled.
lol
sometimes I think the same thing. The way the hordes move as a unit in the MA, I'm more likely to find at least five enemies at once than I am to find one or two isolated. So at least the five I find are not skilled at all, making for a fun little fight. If, instead, I could fly around the MA's and find some good smaller battles with skilled pilots, I'd be equally happy with that as well.
If I am really craving a 1v1 against a good pilot, I just ask on 200 if anyone wants to DA. Most of the time (especially lately) someone is more than willing.
That all said, I do want furball lake abolished, because over enough time there may be a collective amnesia of how to play this game the right way. So remove kills landed messages, remove all chat except PM's perhaps, and you'll have less attitude and more people focused on using that arena for the right reasons.
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As much as seeing some of the antics in the DA bothers me, I'd much rather see it confined to the DA than have it merge into the MA.
To use a comparison, I'd rather have them urinate in the kiddie pool instead of seeing them swim in the big pool with unnaturally warm water surrounding my body.
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What would be nice is to have the DA broken in to plane sets depending on base and have a challenge option enabled. So if driver 1 challenges driver 2 driver 3 can shoot to his hearts content and never do any damage to either driver 1 or 2. In the end it would just waste driver # (insert any number) time and he would eventually move along...
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killer G ventured out of the furball lake this AM,
He proceeded to interrupt mine and perv's 1vs1 session without responding to country or 200 chat. I make a fool of his C Hog 4 times in a row and then he goes back to his furball lake and starts talking to some other guys that had joined the arena.
That guy is just a D-Bag. He has crashed a few of our late night sessions in the same manner. The funny thing is he's the epitome of the "baby seal". He shows up in a C-hog over the fight, dives in, fires on the merge, then finds himself back in the tower within 30 seconds. I have even made comments to him on open that if he wants a fight all he has to do is ask, but he never responds. He's just a lame griefer, no more, no less.
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As much as seeing some of the antics in the DA bothers me, I'd much rather see it confined to the DA than have it merge into the MA.
To use a comparison, I'd rather have them urinate in the kiddie pool instead of seeing them swim in the big pool with unnaturally warm water surrounding my body.
:aok
:lol
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Reading through some of these posts, I think we all agree that, in some capacity, new player orientation is significantly lacking.
The first game that came to mind which *forced* players to learn via an orientation period is America's Army.
Totally different, of course, and the word "force," Im sure, sends shivers up HTC's spine, but I really dont see the harm in putting a new player through an introductory or tutorial period to promote learning. These days, all games with even a minor amount of complexity have one of some sort and, specific to AH, I think the benefit would be huge.
In fact, I think it might even be both fun AND easy to implement. For example, AA puts players through a digital boot camp where they learn controls, how to aim, etc, etc.
Why not put new virtual sticks through a digital flight school? I bet 80% of the foundation for something like this is already done. They called it ToD for awhile.
Lets put it to use.
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Emailing a packet to new players sounds like a good idea. Give them the manual that everyone says they should read.. No way to miss it then. Or at least link to the trainers' website in the new account email confirmation.
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I dont think it should be forced on people, but I do think it should be an option. The email packet thing sounds like a good idea.
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I spent some time in the DA today at the furball area. Anyone who knows me knows my aim is terrible. I got tired of shooting AI in the off-line mission and thought if I hit furball lake a bit I could practice my shooting.
To understand my point of view, I understand a furball as a free for all. Twist and turn, fight till dead and grab a new plane and come back. I did have a couple of good fights, 5 minutes of fun (lost one won one) out of over an hour. The rest of the time was nothing but HOs, runnning, and cherry pickers from high alt. A poor place to practice, lesson learned.
The problem is the new guys who are just getting started end up there and are being taught that this is how the game is played. I saw one guy in there today that was so excited about his first kill....which he died trying to get, but even so was ecstatic at the kill. I called one guy out for running home in his temp so he could land his 2 kills :rolleyes: His excuse was he was out of ammo, big deal fight it out! that's what the arena is suppose to be about. I'll give you a fight even if I only have half a wing, I can learn from that, everyone knows how to run. While trying to get my point across one of those cherrypickers (707200) decided to butt in and defend that "style" of play. By the time I left, the new guy who was so pumped about his first kill was getting instrution on how to get more.... stay fast and pick guys off of other planes and so on. Another one lost to the stupidity that is allow to fester in that swamp.
Its sad when you can't even get a fight in the DA any more, and now we have the new "trainees" learning this crap from this pond scum. "Yee Hahh!"
n mw on time....i was in a p39, attacking gv's. a p38 jumped me. the fight went uphill a little, and out to sea. i ran out of ammo, but had position on him. the fight continued for 3 or 4 minutes till help arrived. it was actually fun, trying to stay on him, even though i could do nothing/
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n mw on time....i was in a p39, attacking gv's. a p38 jumped me. the fight went uphill a little, and out to sea. i ran out of ammo, but had position on him. the fight continued for 3 or 4 minutes till help arrived. it was actually fun, trying to stay on him, even though i could do nothing/
It wasn't meeeee :)
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It wasn't meeeee :)
i know......you'd have handed my arse back to me.
ooooo.....guess what???? i actually got a couple guys in mw to squelch me last night!!!!!! :rofl :rofl
best thing was i didn't even say anything squelch worthy. :rofl :rofl
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The DA has it's place.
A thought...turn on killshooter for a week in the DA and watch the migration to the MA... :P
Ren
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Emailing a packet to new players sounds like a good idea. Give them the manual that everyone says they should read.. No way to miss it then. Or at least link to the trainers' website in the new account email confirmation.
i work for a printing company and would be happy to print it !!
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I blame the horde mission planners for this new breed of dweebery.
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I blame the horde mission planners for this new breed of dweebery.
I didn't know there were mission planners in the DA.
:D
Ren
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Listen guys, just saying that the new guys should go to the TA isn't nearly enough. You're seriously deluding yourself if you think that that alone would make a serious dent.
What happens when a new guys goes into the training arena right now? Well, 90% of the time there are only a few people there. None of them are trainers. So, there's a few guys in there doing their own thing. The new guy is unsure of himself, well, because he is new. Doesn't know who to ask.
Doesn't know what to ask.
If he does toss a question out into the open, he gets either...
1) No answer
2) A wrong answer
3) A smart aleck answer
4) If he is really lucky he'll get somebody who gives him the right answer
5) All of the above from different people. How does a new guy filter that for good information?
Actually finding somebody who will actually spend time actually teaching a new guy how to fly is pretty darn rare. Finding somebody who is even qualified and willing to do so is even rarer.
I had lots of questions when I was new. I tried asking them on Country Channel in the MA. You can imagine the types of answers you get there. I went into the TA to ask questions numerous times. Had all 5 scenarios described above. Not once did anyone ever offer to spend time with me and teach me basic ACM. I even asked if there was anyone who could teach me. It wasn't until I had been flying for several weeks that I even actually ran into a Trainer who was on duty and answering questions.
But let's assume that everyone who is new to the game does actually go to the TA for some training. Let's make it even more amazing and assume that they all go to the TA when there is a trainer on duty.
The trainers would be totally swamped, to the point that teaching anyone anything would be nearly impossible.
I get so tired of hearing/reading all the "hot sticks" telling people to go to the TA. It's pretty much meaningless the way things stand right now.
Before HTC starts sending e-mails and pointing new guys into the TA, they need to draft a lot more trainers and actually make a significant effort to staff the Training Arena close to if not 24/7. Then they need to create a structered curriculum, so a Trainer has a basic plan to get these folks on the right path. It's one thing for a new guy to have to figure out what he needs the Trainer to work with him on, another to force the Trainer to spend time trying to identify what the new guys most immediate needs are. And quite another thing if the Trainer could simply ask what was the last Lesson number that the trainee had recieved.
It would be pretty simple to build a series of basic lessons. Walk the new guys through some basic ACM. Teach them a little about Energy states, how altitude and speed can be interchanged. Teach them about adding a vertical component to their turns and why simple flat turning all the time will get you shot down.
It wouldn't take very many of these lessons to greatly improve a new pilots performance in the Main Arenas.
Basically, I think that if the answer is to route new players into the TA by force, which some of you are suggesting. There darn well better be a system in place in the TA to actually help them once they get there.
Right now, the training system in the TA is anemic at best.
Disclaimer: This is in no way a shot at the guys who are Trainers. I'm just saying that if HTC is going to build forced training into the game, or if the community is serious about improving game play, there really needs to be something different happening in the TA then what is in there right now.
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Listen guys, just saying....blah, blah, blah.....
blah, blah blah.....
....game play, there really needs to be something different happening in the TA then what is in there right now.
Oh, I don't know I seem to be in the TA almost daily. Anyone really have problems getting me to help them? Albeit, one at a time. Wait! Sometime's I help whole squads at a time or at least 8-10 squad members at a time. I helped 2 squads in the past 3 weeks.
Responses welcome.
Thanks
Ren
Aces High Training Corps
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A couple ideas......
HTC receives a newbie signing up for an account. They take an email address, and with it they send a packet. In this packet they could send a manual, made up with links to the trainers site. The manual could be just a basic thing so as to NOT overwhelm the newbi. How to log in, set up your mouse/stick, how to set up views, the commands sheet, how to set up your mic, and how to view films.
At the end, an index linking to films of basic maneuvers that are posted at the trainers site.
As for the trainers, seeing that they are all volunteers its hard to "tie" them up to a schedule. Maybe an assistant trainer setup might help. Have the trainers train a few assistants in basic things say and get them qualified in certain things. If you have 4-5 people qualified to teach a basic course in picking a plane, getting it started, take off, a couple turns then land. You could have a course every other night. Same with BFM, or sets of ACMs. With 4-5 assistants trained in each it wouldn't be as much of a burden to fill the time slots. The trainers could then be freed up for the more advanced 1 on 1 training some might want.
The info is there, its just not advertised that much. A lot of people did a lot of work on the Wiki pages, but I'll bet they aren't accessed that much. Maybe a newsletter with game tips, break downs of moves, tactics, how to take a base WITH OUT NOE :D ok maybe that last one is a bit much, but they have to get the word out there that these resources are available.
Maybe HTC can set up a MOD asking if people would be interested in giving up their email address to be added to a news letter list, see how many would be interested.
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Listen guys, just saying that the new guys should go to the TA isn't nearly enough. You're seriously deluding yourself if you think that that alone would make a serious dent.
What happens when a new guys goes into the training arena right now? Well, 90% of the time there are only a few people there. None of them are trainers. So, there's a few guys in there doing their own thing. The new guy is unsure of himself, well, because he is new. Doesn't know who to ask.
Doesn't know what to ask.
If he does toss a question out into the open, he gets either...
1) No answer
2) A wrong answer
3) A smart aleck answer
4) If he is really lucky he'll get somebody who gives him the right answer
5) All of the above from different people. How does a new guy filter that for good information?
Actually finding somebody who will actually spend time actually teaching a new guy how to fly is pretty darn rare. Finding somebody who is even qualified and willing to do so is even rarer.
I had lots of questions when I was new. I tried asking them on Country Channel in the MA. You can imagine the types of answers you get there. I went into the TA to ask questions numerous times. Had all 5 scenarios described above. Not once did anyone ever offer to spend time with me and teach me basic ACM. I even asked if there was anyone who could teach me. It wasn't until I had been flying for several weeks that I even actually ran into a Trainer who was on duty and answering questions.
But let's assume that everyone who is new to the game does actually go to the TA for some training. Let's make it even more amazing and assume that they all go to the TA when there is a trainer on duty.
The trainers would be totally swamped, to the point that teaching anyone anything would be nearly impossible.
I get so tired of hearing/reading all the "hot sticks" telling people to go to the TA. It's pretty much meaningless the way things stand right now.
Before HTC starts sending e-mails and pointing new guys into the TA, they need to draft a lot more trainers and actually make a significant effort to staff the Training Arena close to if not 24/7. Then they need to create a structered curriculum, so a Trainer has a basic plan to get these folks on the right path. It's one thing for a new guy to have to figure out what he needs the Trainer to work with him on, another to force the Trainer to spend time trying to identify what the new guys most immediate needs are. And quite another thing if the Trainer could simply ask what was the last Lesson number that the trainee had recieved.
It would be pretty simple to build a series of basic lessons. Walk the new guys through some basic ACM. Teach them a little about Energy states, how altitude and speed can be interchanged. Teach them about adding a vertical component to their turns and why simple flat turning all the time will get you shot down.
It wouldn't take very many of these lessons to greatly improve a new pilots performance in the Main Arenas.
Basically, I think that if the answer is to route new players into the TA by force, which some of you are suggesting. There darn well better be a system in place in the TA to actually help them once they get there.
Right now, the training system in the TA is anemic at best.
Disclaimer: This is in no way a shot at the guys who are Trainers. I'm just saying that if HTC is going to build forced training into the game, or if the community is serious about improving game play, there really needs to be something different happening in the TA then what is in there right now.
I'VE NEVER.....EVER.......
asked a questionh in the ta that's gone unanswered. i always seem to find helpful people in there.....ALWAYS.
you don't have to be a trainer to help, and guys like bigrat, morfeind, and some other non-trainers ALWAYS offer advice when asked.
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HTC receives a newbie signing up for an account. They take an email address, and with it they send a packet. In this packet they could send a manual, made up with links to the trainers site. The manual could be just a basic thing so as to NOT overwhelm the newbi. How to log in, set up your mouse/stick, how to set up views, the commands sheet, how to set up your mic, and how to view films.
Now that is a good idea. I suspect some folks may even read the material. There will always be a few that are so impatient they can't wait to get started (read: MOTD...does anyone actually read it or wait until someone tells them to because they are breaking every rule of the arena?).
Ren
Aces High Training Corps
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Oh, I don't know I seem to be in the TA almost daily. Anyone really have problems getting me to help them? Albeit, one at a time. Wait! Sometime's I help whole squads at a time or at least 8-10 squad members at a time. I helped 2 squads in the past 3 weeks.
Responses welcome.
Thanks
Ren
Aces High Training Corps
You've helped two squads, eh? I thought we were talking about helping new players. You know, the new guys that keep getting told to go to the Training Arena by all these hot sticks. Oh wait! Maybe we should be telling the new players to join a squad that has an arrangement with a trainer.
You know, several months ago I wanted some one on one time with a trainer. So I e-mailed every single trainer on the list asking for some training. I got two replies. One from Murdr, who was very kind to spend some time with me. And another one about 3 months later from a different trainer. Most of the trainers never bothered to answer my e-mail. I would have loved to scheduled a session or two with several different trainers. Only Murdr made himself available. Heck, I think there were 6 or 7 of the trainer e-mails that were listed that came back as undeliverable.
Feel free to delude yourself into thinking that all is just fine with the Training Arena.
:salute
I'm more then happy to continue this conversation somewhere else, in a new thread or via PM, but I'm done hijacking this thread.
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Off topic as its unrelated to the DA mess, but related to the nOOb and Training aspect.
I think it would be nice if the Training part of CT was implemented. You are stuck in the TA for a period of time and have to pass through this Flight School to get your wings which allow you to enter other arenas. I'm sure a significant portion of people would not like this idea however and limiting your paying customer base to the TA wouldn't help things on the HTC balance sheet.
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***SNIP***
Listen guys, just saying that the new guys should go to the TA isn't nearly enough. You're seriously deluding yourself if you think that that alone would make a serious dent.
Right now, the training system in the TA is anemic at best.
Disclaimer: This is in no way a shot at the guys who are Trainers. I'm just saying that if HTC is going to build forced training into the game, or if the community is serious about improving game play, there really needs to be something different happening in the TA then what is in there right now.
Another cold, rainy, dreary day in the Northeast...time to waste some bandwidth. :t
Anyone that IS interested in learning how this game functions, will take the time to seek AND find either a trainer or someone that will take the time to explain/demonstrate the basics.
Those that think the DA is an Arena for "pond scum", two(2) choices..(1) stay out of the Arena (2) if you (gasp) venture into the Arena why not ask if anyone would like to learn "the tricks of the trade" as it were.
Knowing that "opinions" are just like Armpits , in that they sometime stink..here's mine: Instead of y'all complaining, why not take a "newbie" under your wing and teach him/her the "ropes" as it were. :cool:
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Pond scum....hmmmmm
Dentin what the heck are you doing herer in the forums? Yer not up flying?
At least I'm at work. :)
What's yer excuse? :D
Ren
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Someone needs to create a AH Bible with lots of pictures. Not graphs (that can come later) but pictures showing the very basics like BigR mentioned. How to improve the views..many new guys have no clue the default views can be changed and saved. Im also a fan of the beginner arena idea. Let them fight eachother rather than coming into an MA and getting flamed every 5 minutes.
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Pond scum....hmmmmm
Not my choice of words...just a quote ;)
Dentin what the heck are you doing herer in the forums? Yer not up flying? What's yer excuse? :D
To much of a good thing has a tendency to turn said "thing" into a not so good thing :)
At least I'm at work. :)
Your at work?? Naww, posting on the BBS is not work..more like fun/entertainment, ergo, your "work" falls under the category of fun/entertainment, soo, it's technically not work. Pretty "cushy" job BTW. :P :D
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i been saying it for years THE DA NEEDS MODS
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i been saying it for years THE DA NEEDS MODS
it almost sounds like the da is full of guys that just like to pat each other on the backs.....no matter what. they seem to like to win.,....no matter what.
forget mods, forget changing anything. just get a large group of veteran sticks together in there with one mission in mind.......provide them with a good fight. they'll either learn to fight well, or they;ll leave.
the other optionm, is to leave em alone, so they stay right there, and don't pollute the ma's.
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i been saying it for years THE DA NEEDS MODS
IMHO the only time a mod might needed in the DA is to stop interferrence with a couple of guys dueling that don't want to nor should be expected to school the perp on arena etiquitte. Perp...lol
As fas as, pond sc...dueling bango....the dueling lake goes...it's an FFA and everyone seems to know it and play the horde way. No biggie there.
Ren
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I spent some time in the DA today at the furball area. Anyone who knows me knows my aim is terrible. I got tired of shooting AI in the off-line mission and thought if I hit furball lake a bit I could practice my shooting.
To understand my point of view, I understand a furball as a free for all. Twist and turn, fight till dead and grab a new plane and come back. I did have a couple of good fights, 5 minutes of fun (lost one won one) out of over an hour. The rest of the time was nothing but HOs, runnning, and cherry pickers from high alt. A poor place to practice, lesson learned.
The problem is the new guys who are just getting started end up there and are being taught that this is how the game is played. I saw one guy in there today that was so excited about his first kill....which he died trying to get, but even so was ecstatic at the kill. I called one guy out for running home in his temp so he could land his 2 kills :rolleyes: His excuse was he was out of ammo, big deal fight it out! that's what the arena is suppose to be about. I'll give you a fight even if I only have half a wing, I can learn from that, everyone knows how to run. While trying to get my point across one of those cherrypickers (707200) decided to butt in and defend that "style" of play. By the time I left, the new guy who was so pumped about his first kill was getting instrution on how to get more.... stay fast and pick guys off of other planes and so on. Another one lost to the stupidity that is allow to fester in that swamp.
Its sad when you can't even get a fight in the DA any more, and now we have the new "trainees" learning this crap from this pond scum. "Yee Hahh!"
I blame the rain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwrL9MV6jSk
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I think any more HELP files and books and manuals are a waste of time. The problem now is the folks who want to start out on top. They don't read anything. Anyone can get most anything they need now by reading... from basics to advanced. Then they would be easy to fine tune.
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IMHO the only time a mod might needed in the DA is to stop interferrence with a couple of guys dueling that don't want to nor should be expected to school the perp on arena etiquitte. Perp...lol
Ren
indeed. our squad has duel training way off in the death canyon bases every week... last sunday we had 2 different interlopers at different times come thru and engage us... very frickin annoying..IIRC one of them responded to our pleas to not join in, but one had to be "corrected". LOL
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You know, the new guys that keep getting told to go to the Training Arena by all these hot sticks. Oh wait! Maybe we should be telling the new players to join a squad that has an arrangement with a trainer.
Quite often, once they figure out how to take off they just want to buzz around and shoot at people. They can't shoot anybody down in the TA so they leave. They don't want to learn how to fight their aircraft. Point 'n Shoot. Pick, Vulch, HO, fly with the Horde. I see them not being able to get off the runway in the TA and an hour later see them in the MA.
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You may enjoy wallowing around in filth, but most of us don't think the new generation should be brought up in it.
same old game, same old people, same old complaints :aok
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same old game, same old people, same old complaints :aok
:noid
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:noid
Need to push the post count up huh.... quote your own post :aok
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:noid
Aren't you one of the squeakies in question here?
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What happened to "make the views MA standard"? That is something I would like to see happen. May not discourage people from moving into the MA's because of a "limited" viewing system.
wrongway
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Not everybody likes to read the instructions right away. Sometimes you just want to get into it. Takes too long to know everything about ACM. I think you read some, apply some then repeat. The game commercial doesnt advertise for training, it makes you envision dogfighting and shooting people down, joining up with a squad..
I enjoy the DA when there is slim fighting going on in the MA. It isnt that much different from the MA, minus the base capturing. A few more new guys in there sure but it is a great place to work on SA and new maneuvers your working on. I go in there to work on getting used to my Trackir.
If you are a good player and want to try and change it, ask if anyone wants to work on there ACM or 1v1. Go to a separate base and teach them a couple of basic moves they can work on. Along with that tell them some basic arena etiquette. We have enough armchair generals who I always hear in the MA's, they should show some new guys some basics rather than telling a group of non-squaddies how to do it and what they are doing wrong.
Complaining folks should start with number one first before they complain about others. Not everyones perfect and some people just want to blow off steam here and dont mind a kamikaze HO with a ram. When I'm stewing about the guy who just Ho'ed/rammed me on my flight back to KILL HIM, I take the time to think about what I did wrong and how to avoid the same from happening, not complain on 200 or in the forums.
The DA is great for what it is, a merciless furball.
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forget mods, forget changing anything. just get a large group of veteran sticks together in there with one mission in mind.......provide them with a good fight. they'll either learn to fight well, or they;ll leave.
:aok
IMHO the only time a mod might needed in the DA is to stop interference with a couple of guys dueling that don't want to nor should be expected to school the perp on arena etiquette.
that's the only reason why i want a mod there for. not to controll furball island. i understand that's a FFA
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Its sad when you can't even get a fight in the DA any more, and now we have the new "trainees" learning this crap from this pond scum. "Yee Hahh!"
What happened to DFC? Clubs like yours is all the change DA needs. New guys could learn a lot from you just from watching, but alas, DFC has to start walking the walk.
It would be pity not to pass all that talent and knowledge down the line. :salute
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Not everybody likes to read the instructions right away.
I just read that the average computer user has an attention span of approximately 10 seconds...................... :O
1001, 1002, 1003, 1004, 1005, 1006, 1007, 1008, 1009, 1010.....
I just read that the average computer user has an attention span of approximately 10 seconds :O
I think it's computer induced ADD............. :O
1001, 1002, 1003, 1004, 1005, 1006, 1007, 1008, 1009, 1010
I think it's computer induced ADD............. :O
And folks wonder why no one reads the MOTD.
Ren
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I've been flying online for aover a decade (September 1996). I spent a long time as a trainer in another game. One remarkably similar to this one.
In 12.5 years I have not noticed any real difference in online behavior.
I came to Aces High about 3 years ago. While Aces High is remarkably similar to the game I came from, HTC has made important changes that make it more accessible to large numbers of people.
And that larger number of people brings out a whole new set of problems. And we see a symptom of it here.
The "behavior" in the Dueling Arena is IDENTICAL to Main Arena behavior. I fly in all the arenas a least a little bit. I run around furball lake to warm up and waits for squadmates to log in. My squadron uses the DA for training events. I poke around in the TA. I fly in the AvA, and all of the Mains.
Behavior is identical in every arena. Before you blame it on some new pervasive degradation of AH society, ITS THE SAME BEHAVIOR I saw over a decade ago when I started online.
The only real change is an ever increasing number of people who believe they have a mandate to dictate other folks behavior. I blame that the easy access to good computer equipment. Back in the day, good gaming rigs were limited to folks who were serious enthusiasts. And aviation gaming was an even more selective subset. For the most part, flying games were populated by people who understood that an individual must take responsibility for themselves. they were the ones with the extra cash to by pricey gaming rigs. Getting yourself killed in an online game wasn't the fault of the "picktards, gangtards, Hotards,Spitdweebs or any other type of 'tard." It was your own damn fault.
Whining about such things would only get you laughed at (politely because no one else could hear you laughing back then) and you would earn a label of a whiner. Of course we had different names back then for those things. "Picking" was called supporting your wingman. (In a furball the closest friendly was your wing man, according to Shaw). Ganging was called flying as a team. Teamwork is now so discouraged that last night I saw a formation of 20 or so planes that was 10 miles long called "Awesome looking". Half a mile in trail is not awesome formation work.
People did whine about Head Ons. And that is where the wheat was separated from the chaff.
This is what I have to say about Head Ons. Never take ACM advice from a guy who whines about Head Ons. He doesn't have a clue if he can't avoid a high aspect guns pass and turn it to his advantage.
Unfortunately, Aces High is filled to the brim with those folks and it all stems back to the silly notion of training with a cold first merge. Dumbest thing I ever saw.
Train like you fight and fight like you train.
Training with a cold merge and then going to an arena and expecting a cold merge in an arena is probably the root of all the HO whining. I'd like to slap the knucklehead that came up with cold merge training.
And don't whine about a particular airplane, just learn how to beat them. every airplane has a weakness. Learn to exploit it. If you can't exploit the weakness sometimes, its not the plane, its the pilot.
So over a decade flying behavior remains the same. The only difference is the level of whining has increased remarkably, mainly because computers are more accessible to folks that blame others for there own failures and seek to remedy that through the imposition of rules restricting the freedom of others.
And that is where I'll have to stop on that topic, for obvious reasons.
NOTE: I'm not the greatest virtual pilot that ever lived but every virtual death I have ever suffered was my own fault. I fly the P38 exclusively because i like P38's. And I don't care how other people choose to play the game. I sincerely wish Aces High had a way of making your squelch list carry over from one game session to the next. Then I could squelch all the whiners and pretend it was 1996 again.
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It's not identical. It's worse at the lake because the lake's setup is even more conducive to dweeby and arcade crap that's nothing like the best the game has to offer.
The only real change is an ever increasing number of people who believe they have a mandate to dictate other folks behavior.
The right to argue. In this instance, argue over what makes the game good, and how to improve gameplay. e.g. Have the new players understand ACM, SA, etc. It takes 15-30min with a trainer.
The real people who follow the pattern in the above quote are armchair generals.. People bickering over which way a CV should go.
Training with a cold merge and then going to an arena and expecting a cold merge in an arena is probably the root of all the HO whining. I'd like to slap the knucklehead that came up with cold merge training.
And don't whine about a particular airplane, just learn how to beat them. every airplane has a weakness. Learn to exploit it. If you can't exploit the weakness sometimes, its not the plane, its the pilot.
Totally off topic.
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What happened to DFC? Clubs like yours is all the change DA needs. New guys could learn a lot from you just from watching, but alas, DFC has to start walking the walk.
It would be pity not to pass all that talent and knowledge down the line. :salute
The problem is like a school yard now. You have a group of kids that are the "cool kids", then you have others like us "old guys" who are here for what your suppose to be here for. Then you have the new guys. Who are they going to "hang" with, or try to?
I did talk with one guy, he was firering at a friendly. I pointed out what would happen, and in stead of coming back with an attitude, he replied that he knew, but his computer had locked up and he was sorting it out. I did have a couple of good fights but the problems started when I was trying to talk to another guy. He was RTBin :rolleyes: he said he had damage :rolleyes: no ammo :rolleyes: Its a fighting area, your suppose to fight, not run away, not land kills, FIGHT.
Then the peanut gallery started in (all the cool guys) defending this stuff. Whats the new guy suppose to do? Listen to the "old guy" trying to explain things, or join the "cool guys"?
Dawger,
I agree that the behavior in all arenas are identical, but it hasn't always been that way. 7-8 years ago here the people played with "honor". ALL where some sort of WWII enthusiast. Wingman tactics were practiced and employed, Buffs flew in formations WITHOUT the formation box checked (we only had singles back then), fighter flew high and low cover, Way points were used with rendezvous of buff and fighter wings. Mission were not only to TAKE a base, but were used to slow defensive responses, destroy radar for the opposing team TACTICAL missions.
The new players....over the last couple of years... have become more of a gamer type player. I'll bet if you could ask and they would answer, over 75% of the people playing have searched the game sites for "codes" and such to get around the game. These people don't play the game they way it was intended. Yes I said "intended" because too many people twist what they want the game to be with things like "well there isn't a rule against that!" Those are the people that are pushing the game inot something its not. Honestly, I can say that the game "was" intended to be a combat game. A place to wage combat using WWII style planes, later expanded to WWII ships, then vehicles. Today, people are not "using" WWII modeled planes and vehicles, they are using what ever "tool" does the job the quickest way possible, and today, the "job" has nothing to do with combat.
Today it's all about grabbing that next base before any defenders show up. It's about loading up a spawn point before the defenders get there. It's about covering your butt, not with a wingman, or BFM's, but with 25 of your closest buddies (half of which they couldn't name 5 of them real names!). I would love to fight against a pair of wingman, but it's never just the two, but 6 or 7 of them, and they don't use wingman tactics...drag and bag, thatch weave and so on, they just go for one HO after the other.
These are the things the new guy learn. That is how they "train" in the DA, so that is how they "fight" in the MAs.
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The problem is like a school yard now. You have a group of kids that are the "cool kids", then you have others like us "old guys" who are here for what your suppose to be here for. Then you have the new guys. Who are they going to "hang" with, or try to?
Sorry about chopping and typing inside your post but I take exception to some of it. 2005 is an old guy? Then what are us guys that have been flying since the early '90's?
I did have a couple of good fights but the problems started when I was trying to talk to another guy. He was RTBin :rolleyes: he said he had damage :rolleyes: no ammo :rolleyes: Its a fighting area, your suppose to fight, not run away, not land kills, FIGHT.
Same issue. Ain't you sitting there typing out rules you wanna live by and so must everyone else? Who died and made you king to say some guy who fought, did or didn't kill someone, got shot up/ out of ammo and tried to make it home should have to stay and fight with nothing but a shot up plane? I gotta call BS. [/color
Then the peanut gallery started in (all the cool guys) defending this stuff. Whats the new guy suppose to do? Listen to the "old guy" trying to explain things, or join the "cool guys"?
Dawger,
I agree that the behavior in all arenas are identical, but it hasn't always been that way. 7-8 years ago here the people played with "honor". ALL where some sort of WWII enthusiast. Wingman tactics were practiced and employed, Buffs flew in formations WITHOUT the formation box checked (we only had singles back then), fighter flew high and low cover, Way points were used with rendezvous of buff and fighter wings. Mission were not only to TAKE a base, but were used to slow defensive responses, destroy radar for the opposing team TACTICAL missions.
The new players....over the last couple of years... have become more of a gamer type player. I'll bet if you could ask and they would answer, over 75% of the people playing have searched the game sites for "codes" and such to get around the game. These people don't play the game they way it was intended. Yes I said "intended" because too many people twist what they want the game to be with things like "well there isn't a rule against that!" Those are the people that are pushing the game inot something its not. Honestly, I can say that the game "was" intended to be a combat game. A place to wage combat using WWII style planes, later expanded to WWII ships, then vehicles. Today, people are not "using" WWII modeled planes and vehicles, they are using what ever "tool" does the job the quickest way possible, and today, the "job" has nothing to do with combat.
More BS. What you are trying to say is people ain't playing the game the way you intended it should be played. Again, same question...who died and made you king? I would think if it was such a big bad thing HTC&Co. would make changes, don't you?
Today it's all about grabbing that next base before any defenders show up. It's about loading up a spawn point before the defenders get there. It's about covering your butt, not with a wingman, or BFM's, but with 25 of your closest buddies (half of which they couldn't name 5 of them real names!). I would love to fight against a pair of wingman, but it's never just the two, but 6 or 7 of them, and they don't use wingman tactics...drag and bag, thatch weave and so on, they just go for one HO after the other.
It's increrdible that such an "old salt" of a few years can't find a fight anywhere in the area that suits his personal requirements. Most of us "young salts" (read 15+ years) seem to have no problems finding any fight we want.
These are the things the new guy learn. That is how they "train" in the DA, so that is how they "fight" in the MAs.
The last time I visited the DA is was the same as it's been for years. FFA. Usually 2 big groups that try to horde their way through dogfights. Both the Rooks and Knits have a group. It's a furball. It suits some folks to fight like that. What they learn is their business. If they're afraid to tangle with the big bad Arena's, who cares? As long as they don't interfere with individual duels/training that other folks use the DA for. Too much time is spent whining about who did what. If it's that bad, why are you here? Wait! It must not be that bad! Are you in the military? I remember way back when...let the soldiers whine, it means they're happy. Be warey of the silent soldier.
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Ren in defence of Fugitive he's been around since the 90's as well though he only registered that name on the BBS back in 05.
As for the content on all the posts so far I have no feelings either way. They play how they want and I play how I want, if it's not how you want to play don't go to that area instead of trying to change, or stop, other people having fun how they want to.
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Sorry about chopping and typing inside your post but I take exception to some of it. 2005 is an old guy? Then what are us guys that have been flying since the early '90's?
I'll take the extra minute to quote a bit clearer....use something other than red next time, hurts the eyes :)
2005 under this name, I was MDJOE before that and have flown since AW4W was on AOHell, so ya I'm an "old guy"
Same issue. Ain't you sitting there typing out rules you wanna live by and so must everyone else? Who died and made you king to say some guy who fought, did or didn't kill someone, got shot up/ out of ammo and tried to make it home should have to stay and fight with nothing but a shot up plane? I gotta call BS.
Call BS all you want, but you have to admit that the DUELING arena is suppose to be for DUELING or we could say "fighting". Every fight or duel I've ever had in the TA or DA was to the end. Once the fight was decided you either bailed, crash/aurgered, or where dead. I thought that was what it was all about there....ummm fighting?
More BS. What you are trying to say is people ain't playing the game the way you intended it should be played. Again, same question...who died and made you king? I would think if it was such a big bad thing HTC&Co. would make changes, don't you?
Again call BS all you want, but you have to admit this is a COMBAT game, and in a DUELING arena you should be able to rightly expect COMBAT. right?
It's increrdible that such an "old salt" of a few years can't find a fight anywhere in the area that suits his personal requirements. Most of us "young salts" (read 15+ years) seem to have no problems finding any fight we want.
I have no trouble finding fights, I'm just trying to point out how things have changed, and not really for the good. I'm saying that maybe the new guys are coming in on a different wave lenght, and what important to them "WIN THE GAME OMGZ !!!" is not what it was to us old timers (read 15+ years). I am suggesting that if we show these newer players how it was and yes how it was intended (not by me, but by HTC who made a COMBAT simulation game) how to play we would have MORE combat, more fighting, more tactics, more strategy.
The last time I visited the DA is was the same as it's been for years. FFA. Usually 2 big groups that try to horde their way through dogfights. Both the Rooks and Knits have a group. It's a furball. It suits some folks to fight like that. What they learn is their business. If they're afraid to tangle with the big bad Arena's, who cares? As long as they don't interfere with individual duels/training that other folks use the DA for. Too much time is spent whining about who did what. If it's that bad, why are you here? Wait! It must not be that bad! Are you in the military? I remember way back when...let the soldiers whine, it means they're happy. Be warey of the silent soldier.
Just because "thats the way it is" doesn't mean thats the way it must stay. I'm sure if you dug around through the cobwebs of your failing memory you might remember how it was. More people asked questions, more people helped other people in stead of ridiculing them. There was trash talk, but it was in jest, and it was never as bad as it gets these days. None of us has acess to HTC's "numbers, but I'm willing to bet he loses a bigger number of 2 weekers these days than he did 5 years ago. The only thing that saves the day is he's keeping a bigger number too.
I don't know why you have to come in here an try to verbally slap me around. I was voicing an opinion, and making a suggestion or two. You give me "crap" assuming that I've only been here since 2005 and so I guess I haven't earned the right to call myself an "old guy". Well maybe it just proves my memory is a bit better than yours. I do remember you from AW, as well as many others. I remember when the game was played as a combat game and everyone had fun FIGHTING. Dieing didn't matter, as long as the fight was still there.
At the end of a long session of AH ask your self how many kills you had, or how many deaths you had, I'll bet its a bit hazy and you'll only be able to guess. But let someone ask you what was the best fight of the night and you'll be able to recite every detail, down to speeds and how many times you rolled out your flaps. THAT is what is slowly disappearing from the game. Maybe if us "old timers" keep pointing out this stuff some of the new guys will give it a shot, and want to learn to last longer in a fight. To experience the trill of a fight that lasts 5-10 minutes with your heart pounding, and sweat flowing. To me, sneaking a base, has its thrill, but its nothing like the thrill of fighting for one. I just would like to see these new guys check it out.
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Call BS all you want, but you have to admit that the DUELING arena is suppose to be for DUELING or we could say "fighting". Every fight or duel I've ever had in the TA or DA was to the end. Once the fight was decided you either bailed, crash/aurgered, or where dead. I thought that was what it was all about there....ummm fighting?
Again call BS all you want, but you have to admit this is a COMBAT game, and in a DUELING arena you should be able to rightly expect COMBAT. right?
OPPS sorry about the red and I hadn't entended it to change ALL the text to red just my responses. Somehow I don't see anyone in the DA not...ummmm fighting. I think that's why they call it...kinda furball lake???[/color]
I have no trouble finding fights, I'm just trying to point out how things have changed, and not really for the good. I'm saying that maybe the new guys are coming in on a different wave lenght, and what important to them "WIN THE GAME OMGZ !!!" is not what it was to us old timers (read 15+ years). I am suggesting that if we show these newer players how it was and yes how it was intended (not by me, but by HTC who made a COMBAT simulation game) how to play we would have MORE combat, more fighting, more tactics, more strategy.
Here's a silly question...how does one "win the game"? Do they just put up a sign saying "we won"? Give us our points?
Just because "thats the way it is" doesn't mean thats the way it must stay. I'm sure if you dug around through the cobwebs of your failing memory you might remember how it was. More people asked questions, more people helped other people in stead of ridiculing them. There was trash talk, but it was in jest, and it was never as bad as it gets these days. None of us has acess to HTC's "numbers, but I'm willing to bet he loses a bigger number of 2 weekers these days than he did 5 years ago. The only thing that saves the day is he's keeping a bigger number too.
People still ask questions. Most people in the MA either answer or tell them go to the TA. That has not changed since I've been flying. Granted there is always some wise remark from time to time.
I don't know why you have to come in here an try to verbally slap me around. I was voicing an opinion, and making a suggestion or two. You give me "crap" assuming that I've only been here since 2005 and so I guess I haven't earned the right to call myself an "old guy". Well maybe it just proves my memory is a bit better than yours. I do remember you from AW, as well as many others. I remember when the game was played as a combat game and everyone had fun FIGHTING. Dieing didn't matter, as long as the fight was still there.
For an "old guy" us "old guys" would have expected to see more from you than whinin about the way you think it should be. Everytime I get up I fully expect to have a fight (Combat Style) and I really have a lot of fun doing it. I was also trained by some of the "older guys" from the late '80's who said, "Would you rather have great fights, and land them or have great fights and die?" DOH!!! Hmmm, same great fights and live or die? Lessee, yeah, I wanna die. Those trainers were guys like Fool (and Dano who came later). I guess we learned from different folks which shows your lack of understanding of the difference.
At the end of a long session of AH ask your self how many kills you had, or how many deaths you had, I'll bet its a bit hazy and you'll only be able to guess. But let someone ask you what was the best fight of the night and you'll be able to recite every detail, down to speeds and how many times you rolled out your flaps. THAT is what is slowly disappearing from the game. Maybe if us "old timers" keep pointing out this stuff some of the new guys will give it a shot, and want to learn to last longer in a fight. To experience the trill of a fight that lasts 5-10 minutes with your heart pounding, and sweat flowing. To me, sneaking a base, has its thrill, but its nothing like the thrill of fighting for one. I just would like to see these new guys check it out.
I guess I'm just an old kid. Unless the guy is a complete noob if we have the time, to fight to the bitter end, I normally like the fight go on for a while. He learns and I have fun. Do I remember the particulars of some fight that happened last month? Nope.
Let me say something here...The reason I became a trainer was because some old trainers took me under their wing. They taught me. Their reasons were part selfish. If I got trained well I would give them a good fight. I learned a lot. I found I was having fun but some of the fights were agasint some real new guys. I began thinking like my old trainers and decided I wanted to give back to the game. The better I can make the new guys fly the more fun they will have as will everyone they encounter in the air. And I will also say, it's partly me being selfish, too. If I get up and have a great fight then find out I it was against someone I helped then both of us had fun.In fact, I had a fight with some guy I had helped the other night. He had a little help as the field was capped by an errant N1K'y and a Spitty and they were on top. The Pony was willing to tangle but everytime I got in the N1K jumped in. I dragged them by the field. The spitty tried to sneak in and I hit him. The ack finished him the N1K drifted off but appeared to stay in range. another of our countryman took off. I told him to look out for the N1K but to climb out from under the Pony while I kept his attention. The Pony then came to the dance and we entered into around a 3 minute rolling scissors. He started to get angles on me to the point I thought he just about had me beat. At that point, my countryman joined the fray and our Pony bolted. I stayed on him and I got a shot because I was in trail and poppped him. Had the other guy not gotten in and I told the Pony driver it on private...I thought he had that fight won. He and I had done training in the past. It was a great fight no matter how it came out. That's what it's all about. And that's also why I have a bone to pick and toss crap at whiners...sorry, if the shoe fits.... Do I remember it? Yep, I can actually remember back a couple days still. Guys come into the TA all the time saying, "Hi ren, do you remember me from a year ago or two years ago?" More times than not I have to say with all the numbers and call sign that come through the TA I can't remember em all.
Ya know, you do good work and I respect you for what you do. But, let me ask you this... when was the last time you heard me whine about this type of thing or pretty much anything? I just expected more from you is all.
Ren
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OPPS sorry about the red and I hadn't entended it to change ALL the text to red just my responses. Somehow I don't see anyone in the DA not...ummmm fighting. I think that's why they call it...kinda furball lake???
SO running from a plane is fighting, circling at 12k over furball lake to pick is fighting.... hmmmm ok I guess I'll have to rethink this :rolleyes:
I have no trouble finding fights, I'm just trying to point out how things have changed, and not really for the good. I'm saying that maybe the new guys are coming in on a different wave lenght, and what important to them "WIN THE GAME OMGZ !!!" is not what it was to us old timers (read 15+ years). I am suggesting that if we show these newer players how it was and yes how it was intended (not by me, but by HTC who made a COMBAT simulation game) how to play we would have MORE combat, more fighting, more tactics, more strategy.
Here's a silly question...how does one "win the game"? Do they just put up a sign saying "we won"? Give us our points?
Well evidently when that host message pops up that says something about "... you have won the war and have been awarded point yada yada yada" This is what the new players are shooting for. They use what ever they can to get there as fast as they can. To me EVERYTIME I get into a fight I've won. Whether I die or the other guy dies really doesn't matter. Your fight with the pony is a great example. That is what the game is about.
When you train someone do you point out that if you use a plane with nose mounted cannons that the best move is to HO the other guy? No of course not, the same goes for vulching you don't teach those skills thats what makes you one of the good guys.
I'm not trying to "whine" I'm just pointing out what I see as a problem, maybe some good will come of it.
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The problem is like a school yard now. You have a group of kids that are the "cool kids", then you have others like us "old guys" who are here for what your suppose to be here for. Then you have the new guys. Who are they going to "hang" with, or try to?
I did talk with one guy, he was firering at a friendly. I pointed out what would happen, and in stead of coming back with an attitude, he replied that he knew, but his computer had locked up and he was sorting it out. I did have a couple of good fights but the problems started when I was trying to talk to another guy. He was RTBin :rolleyes: he said he had damage :rolleyes: no ammo :rolleyes: Its a fighting area, your suppose to fight, not run away, not land kills, FIGHT.
Then the peanut gallery started in (all the cool guys) defending this stuff. Whats the new guy suppose to do? Listen to the "old guy" trying to explain things, or join the "cool guys"?
I didn't mean to single out anyone. I was thinking alone the line that never before in AH existed a group with so much talent and right attitude as it does with DFC.
DFC alone can change a lot with just a mere presence in DA. You can bet that peanut gallery will figure out very quickly what's really cool when it comes to fighting in AH...
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SO running from a plane is fighting, circling at 12k over furball lake to pick is fighting.... hmmmm ok I guess I'll have to rethink this :rolleyes:
LOL point is when I've gone into DA there might be a few sputniks but they gotta come down to die and they eventually do
Well evidently when that host message pops up that says something about "... you have won the war and have been awarded point yada yada yada" This is what the new players are shooting for. They use what ever they can to get there as fast as they can. To me EVERYTIME I get into a fight I've won. Whether I die or the other guy dies really doesn't matter. Your fight with the pony is a great example. That is what the game is about.
LOL I got the part about winning the war....the fact that someone happens to have that as a goal is a good thing. They come to us to get kilt.
I'm not trying to "whine" I'm just pointing out what I see as a problem, maybe some good will come of it.
Lead by example. Unless we're in a real war, you lead I'll follow :) I had a youngster up in the TA last night. He was helbent on shooting me down. He took up every single plane he could. Didn't help. I suspect he'll be up tonight asking for help. That really does work ya know
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Leave it how it is, it's my experimental test facility.
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Negative thread, recurring topic. :rolleyes:
If the DA is so bad, why is it that the current population of the DA is constantly at its highest of anytime in the last 6 years?
Gee, 60+ players in the DA to go play with most nights (compared to the maximum of 30+ ever before, even with killshooter off) and people are still complaining?
Get stuck in there, and stop dipping your toes in then spouting here how bad it is. All you are doing is highlighting how poorly equiped you are for full on furballing.
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Negative thread, recurring topic. :rolleyes:
If the DA is so bad, why is it that the current population of the DA is constantly at its highest of anytime in the last 6 years?
Because all those freeloaders that got mommy and daddy to pay for AH go there since there are no longer H2H arenas.
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SO running from a plane is fighting, circling at 12k over furball lake to pick is fighting.... hmmmm ok I guess I'll have to rethink this :rolleyes:
I haven't been in the DA to witness any of these shenanigans, so I'm definately no expert on the subject.
However, the above quote sounds suspisiously like the MA arenas.
And I have seen the "Ol Timers" perpetrating these "offences"in the MAs many many times.
Personally I couldn't care less what goes on in the DA. I don't go in there.
Everything that I've read about in this thread can be found in the MA.
And worse.
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If the DA is so bad, why is it that the current population of the DA is constantly at its highest of anytime in the last 6 years?
If HOing is so bad, why is it that 90+% of the populous does it?
See how that works? :devil
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The DA is just a scape goat for a much larger problem in the MA this stuff happens in there every day. This is like chasing drugs in some small
town in BFE and Ignoring the drug problem in say LA or some large city like that.
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The DA is just a scape goat for a much larger problem in the MA this stuff happens in there every day. This is like chasing drugs in some small
town in BFE and Ignoring the drug problem in say LA or some large city like that.
D U E L I N G Arena. DA/MA shouldn't be played by the same rules. As someone previously said, it should be called the Melee Arena, it's insulting to the term "Duel" by the way it is used currently.
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Dueling arena fuctions near perfectly for its purpose. You all just cant handle a furball :angel:
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Dueling arena fuctions near perfectly for its purpose. You all just cant handle a furball :angel:
I cant tell you how many times the duels Iv been in were interupted by those idiots from the furball area.
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I cant tell you how many times the duels Iv been in were interupted by those idiots from the furball area.
Same here. I've actually had some 2v1 in there unintentionally. You really know their skill level when they start shooting at 2k out :aok
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so shoot them down untill they get bored....are they too good for you?
you cannot brand anyone from H2H as a freeloader if they have a subscription now.
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so shoot them down untill they get bored....are they too good for you?
That really doesn't solve the problem. Bursting in on someone's 1v1 is plain rude, no matter how good or bad they are. It's a simple thing I like to call RESPECT. All it takes is a simple text in the buffer "hey guys fighting at 22-23, mind if I join..." or along those lines.
But if the DO jump in, and we kill them repeatedly, they will either go back to the furball lake cesspool or burst in on someone else's 1v1.
The solution to this problem: Who really knows?
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D U E L I N G Arena. DA/MA shouldn't be played by the same rules. As someone previously said, it should be called the Melee Arena, it's insulting to the term "Duel" by the way it is used currently.
S E M A N T I C S it doesnt matter what its called you can duel there but theres also though the small area thats a mini ma
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The DA is a terrible place to learn. The many of the pilots are just there to take up the perk planes without risking the perks. Last week, i was fling a Hurri 1 and I got a PM when I was shot dow....."DIE OBIE DIE". Now I take this game with a grain of salt. Needless to say, I didn't care then and I don't care now. Take it for what the DA has become......a breeding ground for honing the HO skills.
Just my .02 cents.
Fugitive, you ever want to fly against a real pilot in the DA, give me PM or call. We'll set up a time and I'll fly with you any day. :aok
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S E M A N T I C S it doesnt matter what its called you can duel there but theres also though the small area thats a mini ma
The 'small area' encompasses 95% of the action. It shouldn't be called the dueling arena. And a true dueling arena should serve an entirely different function than the Lake/MA.
The furball lake is what it is but I think the main grievance with it is that it is associated with the word "duel".
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old DA map, anyone?
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I look at the DA as a training arena with consequences. Consequence being you take damage and get sent to the tower. Each area has it's specific theme. Furball area = anything goes and if you don't feel it is the same as in the MA just visit TT when it's busy. the three way is pretty much as it is. And each corresponding area has the same purpose.
Yes it can get annoying when somebody comes along to a private duel, but from my experience people are pretty obliging and if not you and your duels partner both go to opposing sides and nail the sucker till he/she gets the message. This can then double as wingman training.
Perhaps on the specific duelling bases there could be an option to lock it for the purpose of an uninterrupted duel where people can be invited in with and time limit or even a unlock of said area for inactivity from at least two bases on that particular duels area. I say at least two due to the fact that the canyon areas have three bases on.
On a whole I believe that it is the community elders who need to help the new guys wether it be in the DA or MA. Everybody has the ability to PM and these don't have to be and shouldn't be for abuse (only), give direction to some of these guys you are so vehemently accusing of degrading this game. I know of the few times I have, I have noticed that although there is no reply the actions or direction offered has been followed. Even to the point of facing off with a HO'er guns cold for a couple of passes and replying on the third, I notice that some (yes there are those who don't) will learn or at least the next time we meet aren't continuing in this fashion.
Just my thoughts on the matter
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Do you all really want to end the fun that a large group of people have in the lake? Take away the lake and 100 people are going to be unhappy, or more. Whats the big deal. There is no problem if we just tolerate what we have got.
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Nah the lake is fine but i don't know why it's associated with the dueling arena. Nothing that takes place there which encompasses 95+% of the action in the dueling arena, can be considered anything warranting a duel or an honorable fight. Imo, Furball Lake should have its own arena. And then the dueling arena could be a similar setup to Roscoroo's Sea2 events + areas for 1v1s. Log in and you get an arena message that tells you the ground rules. Regulars in the arena would be given CM status and griefers that break rules would be ejected.
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Do you all really want to end the fun that a large group of people have in the lake? Take away the lake and 100 people are going to be unhappy, or more. Whats the big deal. There is no problem if we just tolerate what we have got.
Like I said in the beginning of the post, its my fault for thinking I'd find "fights" in the DA, but Im not saying to get rid of it. I couldn't care less what happens there. The issue I saw was new guys thinking that flying ..... running, HOin, and picking.... like that is the BEST way to learn to fight. I was just suggesting that maybe there was something that could be done to keep the new guys occupied, and trained a bit better, so that when they go in to the DA and run into the trash thats in there they know that they are running in to trash.
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Do you all really want to end the fun that a large group of people have in the lake?
Improve it to above-mediocre standards. Show me a player whose dogfighting toolbox is the kind of 1 dimensional routine Fugitive describes and I'll show you a player who's marooned on a tiny tip of the "fun" iceberg.
Take away the lake and 100 people are going to be unhappy, or more.
No one's arguing to take the lake away, or remove furballing from the game. Nowhere near it.
Whats the big deal. There is no problem if we just tolerate what we have got.
Wow. Just F****in wow.
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this is on the right path of getting LOCKED IN
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Negative thread, recurring topic. :rolleyes:
If the DA is so bad, why is it that the current population of the DA is constantly at its highest of anytime in the last 6 years?
Gee, 60+ players in the DA to go play with most nights (compared to the maximum of 30+ ever before, even with killshooter off) and people are still complaining?
Get stuck in there, and stop dipping your toes in then spouting here how bad it is. All you are doing is highlighting how poorly equiped you are for full on furballing.
Because they closed H2H.
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Do you all really want to end the fun that a large group of people have in the lake? Take away the lake and 100 people are going to be unhappy, or more. Whats the big deal. There is no problem if we just tolerate what we have got.
So what...thats 100 people compared to how many other people pay to play this game :aok
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So what...thats 100 people compared to how many other people pay to play this game :aok
Wrong!!! If you were one of those 100, who by way, are not complaining about the MA being a hole of inequity that was being told a few from the forum boards "who cares about 100 peeps?" wouldn't you feel just great about a community that you are a paying and contributing member of. That's like saying what's one person, Banshee7 compared to 3 others that play the game? Or 100 others, or 1 other? Let's just get rid of him because he doesn't want to play our way?
This appears to be a case of the few caring about the few and wanting to tell them how to play the game.
I'll bet that if you want to put up the money for each and every one of those "100?" players then maybe, just maybe, they'll play by your rules. Right now the game sets the rules and no one seems to have stepped in to curb the play in the DA. If or until that happens what you see is what you get.
Ren
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The DA can be a plus if all those types stay in there. I think they should rename it though. Something like FFA (no rules). Might even pull more of those types out of the main arenas. Then set it up with no squads and killshooter off. Let them have at it. Then they can setup a Dueling Arena where folks can actually duel with no squads and killshooter off.
I don't think anyone would be unhappy with that setup.
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YAKNOW......
my last answer was somehwat sarcastic, although it would fix the "problem" in there.
the fact, though is that you don't need to go in there if you don;t like the way things are in there. those of you that practice in there, can do so in the ma's, or in the ta. for 1-1 duels, simply go to the far side of the map. there's generally bases close enough together to be short flight time to your duel.
those practicing bombing raids, same thing. if someone ups, then they're actually HELPING your practice, as they'll simply be making it more realistic. if you're a lw flyer, and afraid of hurting your score there, then go to mw or ew to practice. if you're a mw or ew flyer, then go to one of the lw arenas.
there's also the sea arenas, which i'm sure can be used to practice.
not trying to be a wisearse, just sayin.........
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YAKNOW......
my last answer was somehwat sarcastic, although it would fix the "problem" in there.
the fact, though is that you don't need to go in there if you don;t like the way things are in there. those of you that practice in there, can do so in the ma's, or in the ta. for 1-1 duels, simply go to the far side of the map. there's generally bases close enough together to be short flight time to your duel.
those practicing bombing raids, same thing. if someone ups, then they're actually HELPING your practice, as they'll simply be making it more realistic. if you're a lw flyer, and afraid of hurting your score there, then go to mw or ew to practice. if you're a mw or ew flyer, then go to one of the lw arenas.
there's also the sea arenas, which i'm sure can be used to practice.
not trying to be a wisearse, just sayin.........
Howdy Cap,
Long time, no hear! Common sense will get you nowhere sir! :D
Have a great day,
Way
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Ren, great answer sir.
S!
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Just F****in wow.
:lol :D
Rephrase for mootikins.
There is no problem for the regulars like me who still always enjoy my DA time, everytime.
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Howdy Cap,
Long time, no hear! Common sense will get you nowhere sir! :D
Have a great day,
Way
hey way, how ya been?<<S>>
i'm here on and off.....more off lately. i think i've managed to fly a grand total of 10 hours in the last couple months.........
talk soon!
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Of course not Bat. It's all relative.
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* nevermind
Seems like opinions are not welcomed
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* nevermind
Seems like opinions are not welcomed
Well, certainly not YOURS ! :D
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Well, certainly not YOURS ! :D
What I figured..I am one of the most hated players in the game.
#S#
00Banshee7
AH Spy
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What I figured..I am one of the most hated players in the game.
#S#
00Banshee7
AH Spy
No. You're just an avacado.
:aok
;)
wrongway
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What I figured..I am one of the most hated players in the game.
#S#
00Banshee7
AH Spy
No one that I know of hates you. Although some of your ideas might have come from the DA :D
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Aren't you one of the squeakies in question here?
no just tired of all the crybaby stuff people like u post :aok
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Need to push the post count up huh.... quote your own post :aok
yep because that really matters lol :aok
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No one that I know of hates you. Although some of your ideas might have come from the DA :D
Have you been to LW arenas lately?
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Eliminate perk rides, 5k bases...would either help a lot, or further push them into whordes
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and limit even further the plane choice for 1 on 1 duels?
it already sucks that i cant duel someone in an A20 just because people whined about a few bombers griefing the furball.
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and limit even further the plane choice for 1 on 1 duels?
it already sucks that i cant duel someone in an A20 just because people whined about a few bombers griefing the furball.
The grief comes from the fact they haven't figured out how to shoot down a buff. :D
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Just say "No to scores and pilot rankings."
If enough people ignore scores and ranks, others will....oh, who am I kidding? Cartoon pilots won't fight as long as ranks exist.
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Just allow no more then 3 or 4 guys from a single country to take off from same airfield? That would take care of alot of problems.
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Just allow no more then 3 or 4 guys from a single country to take off from same airfield? That would take care of alot of problems.
I agree. Lessee, average number of DA'rs = 60 on a big day. Divide that by 4 is 15. Let's have a DA map that has, oh say...15 countries within .125 miles from each other. Yeah, that'd work....Wow...cool idea....
More countries, more countries! Can I be in the Blue Lily Magenta Purple Country? What about squads? If we have 1 CO and 2 XO's then we'd have 1 custodian, errr Jr. Pilot. Yeah, he can clean the latrines. No wait!!! We can send him in first, low...slow....in a c47.
Want Ads....Hiring 1 Jr Pilot. Enquire within.
Or, you can leave the DA lake to the Pon...guys that like furballing and train interlopers of 1v1/2v2/3v3/4v4 fights that it might not be a good idea. Albeit you spend your whole night capping the interloper and not doing what you paid for.
One thing mid lake has going for it is you get to see how many HO's you can successfully avoid while having 4 guys on yer 6 while chasing down a runstang. Did I mention many were up in 20mm's/30mm tater planes? If you can handle oh say 5 at a time like that then I'd have to say yer ready for most things in the MA's. I mean come on!!! Where can you get training like that?
Which reminds me, I had a frog in my pool last night. I guess it's time to take the cover off and get it up and running for the summer.