Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: PJ_Godzilla on September 21, 2009, 09:22:28 AM
-
So, there I am Saturday, flying my D-9 in a Furball. I'm making out all right, using pitch/roll maneuvers to get on enemy sixes and avoid enemy attackers.
There was one Pony I'd been after for some time. I'd fired on him once and chased him on a couple of different passes.
He was moving in what appeared to be a dive opposite and below my direction of travel so I split-essed down onto his ass. I realized he was missing his elevators right around the same time an accuser who removed said tail-feathers loudly stated "that P-51 is down. It's my kill. Leave him alone. You've got a Yak on your tail. You can kill him."
Now, it was never my intent to steal the kill and while the 51 appeared wounded, he was still lit and, until closer observation revealed the nature of the damage, could easily have still been a threat.
My questions:
1. is kill-stealing actually a problem?
2. What's up with the proximity kill? I recently watched a P-47, in his attempt to evade me, auger. I was awarded a kill even though I had not shot him down; had merely been the cause of his evasive maneuvering.
I evaded the Yak, btw, with a simple series of rolls - then killed some guy name SnoopDog twice in the same day.
-
1. is kill-stealing actually a problem?
Guys who will out-and-out shoot a falling wreck are rare. Most of the time it happens it will be an accident. Friendlies deciding to "pile-on" that bandit in your 12 are less rare unfortunately.
2. What's up with the proximity kill? I recently watched a P-47, in his attempt to evade me, auger. I was awarded a kill even though I had not shot him down; had merely been the cause of his evasive maneuvering.
An opponent made to crash during the course of combat maneuvering is a fair kill, by WWII standards too. If there were no proxies, anyone could avoid giving you an earned kill simply by augering. Of course, if someone else has any lead at all in the bandit, they will get the kill instead of the guy who was merely closest.
-
Most of the time it happens it will be an accident.
I agree with you on that, there are only a few people so desperate that they have to chase a plane that is very obviously down. As I see it, if that plane can still aim and shoot, it's a threat. It especially bugs me when a plane is burning and someone wants you to leave it alone, I know I've done damage before while I was burning. I don't think it really happens too much, you just can't let it get to you.
-
So, there I am Saturday, flying my D-9 in a Furball. I'm making out all right, using pitch/roll 1. is kill-stealing actually a problem?
no
-
no
Pssh I've knocked planes out of the sky before and had people shoot it on the way down a lot. The worst is when I'm in a K4, all you need is one bullet to knock a wing off but that noob spixteen behind me will follow it down and blow it up.... I wouldn't saw no to it being a problem because it does happen.
-
A burning bomber is really the only time I get upset with thieves.......... Especially if it's not over target. You have a 24 burning up, 2 still fine, and the newb comes and starts raking into the flamer. WTF?
A fighter that's on fire can still kill me and my friends......... I say that is fair game.
-
I have several opinions on this matter:
1) I view this as a team sport.......and a war.
2) In crowded...close proximity fighting.......nobody's got a claim... you kill whatever you can...however you can...so they don't kill your nearby team mates.
3) I don't give a flying freak about my score........never have never will.
4) Anyone who whines about "that was my kill" should get the hell out of the war ... and jump into the dueling forum.
5) If I'm working on some enemy for 4 minutes........and a guy on my team swoops in and finished him off.......I'll thank him.
-
A burning bomber is really the only time I get upset with thieves..........
^^^^^^^^
I also concur with this....
if it's a roman candle burning..........then you're just a selfish hoe....leave it alone.
-
I have several opinions on this matter:
1) I view this as a team sport.......and a war.
2) In crowded...close proximity fighting.......nobody's got a claim... you kill whatever you can...however you can...so they don't kill your nearby team mates.
3) I don't give a flying freek about my score........never have never will.
4) Anyone who wines about "that was my kill" should get the hell out of the war ... and jump into the dueling forum.
5) If I'm working on some enemy for 4 minutes........and a guy on my team swoops in and finished him off.......I'll thank him.
When a con is dead... no wing or tail and falling. Would you shoot him?
-
When a con is dead... no wing or tail and falling. Would you shoot him?
hell no.....as I stated above.
-
hell no.....as I stated above.
I did not see where you stated that. I only saw all your other statements which would lead to that question.
-
just ask before you jump in. folks seem to forget that we're all in different stages of experience levels. some guys want the help, others do not. just ask your fellow countryman if he needs a hand. :salute
-
wondering how many times those of us here also were told "leave him..he's dead".......so we do.......and said dead aircraft shoots you in the face.
It pisses me off.......but I figure it's common courtesy.
-
just ask before you jump in. folks seem to forget that we're all in different stages of experience levels. some guys want the help, others do not. just ask your fellow countryman if he needs a hand. :salute
I agree... however zeta states otherwise. That is why I asked him the above question.
-
just ask before you jump in. folks seem to forget that we're all in different stages of experience levels. some guys want the help, others do not. just ask your fellow countryman if he needs a hand. :salute
this is sound advice...and the polite way to be. :aok
-
I'm talking close proximity here......as in everywhere you turn......someone is on your six.........and every one of your countryman's six.......
I always ask if someone needs assistance......and I'll typically drop whatever I'm doing to escort a bomber just to help the cause....
one caveat I feel strongly about though........that seems to be contrary to most here......I WILL shoot you in the face at first pass..... hoeing? I think most call it. I see no issue with that.......like I said.........it's war.
-
Guys who will out-and-out shoot a falling wreck are rare.
One of our more 'popular' rankers I have on film (under his original handle) shooting a bomber sans wing after I called him by name and told him the plane was down. I have seen him do the same thing under his new handle also and he is not alone.
-
One of our more 'popular' rankers I have on film (under his original handle) shooting a bomber sans wing after I called him by name and told him the plane was down. I have seen him do the same thing under his new handle also and he is not alone.
I see that daily. typically........it's new kids who don't know any better
-
One of our more 'popular' rankers I have on film (under his original handle) shooting a bomber sans wing after I called him by name and told him the plane was down. I have seen him do the same thing under his new handle also and he is not alone.
Name names... Call that(those) mofo(es) out. What the hell, fun's fun.
Popular Ranker and other worthless pieces of human garbage, you stand hereby accused of kill thievery. How do you plead, you worthless latex bags of discharged scum?
We'll give them a fair trial and then we'll hang them.
-
I'm talking close proximity here......as in everywhere you turn......someone is on your six.........and every one of your countryman's six.......
I always ask if someone needs assistance......and I'll typically drop whatever I'm doing to escort a bomber just to help the cause....
one caveat I feel strongly about though........that seems to be contrary to most here......I WILL shoot you in the face at first pass..... hoeing? I think most call it. I see no issue with that.......like I said.........it's war.
No it is a game. But if your new then it is probably your only choice to score a kill. Most would rather see who can out fly the other.
-
Posting information as I have done is one thing but linking names to it is a possible violation of rule #8 and Im not going there just to give an ankle humper some fun.
-
Posting information as I have done is one thing but linking names to it is a possible violation of rule #8 and Im not going there just to give an ankle humper some fun.
Okay. You pass. I was hoping to stoke a spectacle.
-
No it is a game. But if your new then it is probably your only choice to score a kill. Most would rather see who can out fly the other.
I don't concur......and I've been here almost 2 years.
honestly.........I think it's a common whine vets use when it happenes.....for obvious reasons.
Its war......that's how I treat it.
-
I dont steal kills, or, if I do its an honest mistake.
I often leave tanks for friendly tankers to kill. Or if I have killed 2 or 3 I'll leave the field to the GV'ers.
Ive even given crippled enemies a pass when asked to do so in PM.
-
I don't concur......and I've been here almost 2 years.
honestly.........I think it's a common whine vets use when it happens to them in front of other vets.....for obvious reasons.
Its war......that's how I treat it.
-
If I tell my boss that i took off today to play a "game" he'll be sooooo pissed :uhoh We MUST call it a war!!!!! :x
Atleast until tomorrow anyway, and then i can go back to being a game
-
Ive even given crippled enemies a pass when asked to do so in PM.
that's curious.........why would they ask?
-
I don't concur......and I've been here almost 2 years.
Some learn quicker than others.
Its war......that's how I treat it.
This is probably why your having problems improving.
-
Some learn quicker than others.
This is probably why your having problems improving.
do you and ack ack share a brain?
you both go out of your way to mis quote........and/or feign a fake understanding of what you already know someone is actually saying?
-
I have several opinions on this matter:
1) I view this as a team sport.......and a war.
2) In crowded...close proximity fighting.......nobody's got a claim... you kill whatever you can...however you can...so they don't kill your nearby team mates.
3) I don't give a flying freak about my score........never have never will.
4) Anyone who whines about "that was my kill" should get the hell out of the war ... and jump into the dueling forum.
5) If I'm working on some enemy for 4 minutes........and a guy on my team swoops in and finished him off.......I'll thank him.
Responses in order:
1.) This game is neither. We sit on our tulips and do 12 oz curls at times. This isn't a "sport" or "war".
2.) I agree.
3.) I've heard too many people say this and they negate their stance, I haven't/won't check yours, but will give you benefit of the doubt.
4.) Again this isn't a "war". This a Online Combat Simulator.
5.) I agree, if it's "takes me too long", I don't deserve it and it promotes "esprit de corps".
-
Responses in order:
1.) This game is neither. We sit on our tulips and do 12 oz curls at times. This isn't a "sport" or "war".
2.) I agree.
3.) I've heard too many people say this and they negate their stance, I haven't/won't check yours, but will give you benefit of the doubt.
4.) Again this isn't a "war". This a Online Combat Simulator.
5.) I agree, if it's "takes me too long", I don't deserve it and it promotes "esprit de corps".
I respect that. fair post.
-
that's curious.........why would they ask?
They might have a bunch of kills to land. Last night after tracking a T-34 I gave him a pass and let him tower with 11 kills.
True I also spend time as a Nit and knew who he was. But a tracked T-34 isnt a threat and why not do someone a good turn? Its only a game.
So I guess thats your answer. Its only a game so why wouldnt they ask?
-
do you and ack ack share a brain?
Well it is common knowledge that the 38 dweebs are without their frontal lobes. :D
-
It just struck me as interesting. it's not something I'd ever ask someone.... but then again..as you said...vets here switch sides and have more interpersonal relationships on various sides. as stupid as this might sound.......I'd never switch sides either.......but.....I understand it.
-
do you and ack ack share a brain?
you both go out of your way to mis quote........and/or feign a fake understanding of what you already know someone is actually saying?
Hmm I pressed quote and it copied your text. If you think it is a misquote you may want to post it in the bug forum.
I see no reason for name calling or dropping to the level your going to. I simply asked questions and made statements based on your own posts.
I understand your posts as they are posted... I simply asked if you meant it as you posted.
-
Hmm I pressed quote and it copied your text. If you think it is a misquote you may want to post it in the bug forum.
I see no reason for name calling or dropping to the level your going to. I simply asked questions and made statements based on your own posts.
I understand your posts as they are posted... I simply asked if you meant it as you posted.
is calling you ack ack name calling? I digress.
-
Well it is common knowledge that the 38 dweebs are without their frontal lobes. :D
:rofl
:aok
-
If some one calls the guy down I leave him be...unless its Rob53, Bushlt or lowman's kill, I will then proceed to shoot the snot out of any remaining pieces :devil
shamus
-
So, there I am Saturday, flying my D-9 in a Furball. I'm making out all right, using pitch/roll maneuvers to get on enemy sixes and avoid enemy attackers.
There was one Pony I'd been after for some time. I'd fired on him once and chased him on a couple of different passes.
He was moving in what appeared to be a dive opposite and below my direction of travel so I split-essed down onto his ass. I realized he was missing his elevators right around the same time an accuser who removed said tail-feathers loudly stated "that P-51 is down. It's my kill. Leave him alone. You've got a Yak on your tail. You can kill him."
Now, it was never my intent to steal the kill and while the 51 appeared wounded, he was still lit and, until closer observation revealed the nature of the damage, could easily have still been a threat.
My questions:
1. is kill-stealing actually a problem?
2. What's up with the proximity kill? I recently watched a P-47, in his attempt to evade me, auger. I was awarded a kill even though I had not shot him down; had merely been the cause of his evasive maneuvering.
I evaded the Yak, btw, with a simple series of rolls - then killed some guy name SnoopDog twice in the same day.
If he had no elevators, he was not a threat and you should not have shot at him.
-
If some one calls the guy down I leave him be...unless its Rob53, Bushlt or lowman's kill, I will then proceed to shoot the snot out of any remaining pieces :devil
shamus
I don't know those cats..........but that was funny as hell.
-
shuffler..........here's pretty much a summation of who I am on message boards....
if you're hip... irreverent ...or funny.......I'm a fan........and we'll get along. if not......we won't.........quickly.
-
is calling you ack ack name calling? I digress.
I'm refering to your "brainless" statement. Sounded as if you lost control of the discussion and reverted back to grade school.
I'm not trying to attack you..... I'm trying to understand your thought process. Ho's happen..... but to go into a fight intending to Ho... I'm at a loss to understand.
-
Sounded as if you lost control of the discussion and reverted back to grade school.
if by "going into a fight".......you mean he heads straight at my level 12........and stays level...... he's making an aggressive move......and yeah..I'll engage. it that is what peeps call hoeing here...... I can assure you.......if I am still here in a decade......I'd remain consistent on that.
save the "first pass for respect" stuff for the duelling arena
-
It just struck me as interesting. it's not something I'd ever ask someone.... but then again..as you said...vets here switch sides and have more interpersonal relationships on various sides.
If I recognize a guy's flying style and he appears rtb, I'll ask him, even if he appears undamaged. If he responds he's rtb, I'll let him go.* This was once a common practice.
Nowadays it's mostly opposite. It seems like the crippled plane is the first target of choice.
* There are several pilots I will give no quarter to, simply because I don't like them. Also, no hordeling gets quarter, ever.
-
It just struck me as interesting. it's not something I'd ever ask someone.... but then again..as you said...vets here switch sides and have more interpersonal relationships on various sides. as stupid as this might sound.......I'd never switch sides either.......but.....I understand it.
Its not even that. I knew who he was but I dont "know him". I'd do the same to anyone else who had a bunch of kills to land and was helpless, "well almost anyone". A guy who can spawn into an airbase in a T-34, with almost all the advantage on the defenders side, and still kill 11 defenders??? He deserves a :salute and a pass if he asks. A T-34, tracked with no friendly uppers or flak around, is basically helpless to my IL2.
I know the game is just make believe but still I live my life by codes. One such code is to respect an honorable enemy and not grind his face into the ground just because I can. And while just a game there are actual people connected to the other end of that cartoon vehicle so why not do a good turn and be respectful towards them?
The fact that I dont shoot up what others have strived to shoot down is also a gesture of respect. Its the same reason I call people "sir' in the game or spend time getting supplies to strangers. The same reason I dont cuss or scream nonsense on the vox.
Most play the same way. While we do have some nitwits in the game, for the most part, guys play honorably.
-
If I recognize a guy's flying style and he appears rtb, I'll ask him, even if he appears undamaged. If he responds he's rtb, I'll let him go.* This was once a common practice.
Nowadays it's mostly opposite. It seems like the crippled plane is the first target of choice.
* There are several pilots I will give no quarter to, simply because I don't like them. Also, no hordeling gets quarter, ever.
I'll let one go every so often if they are damaged and put up a great fight. If they just try to Ho and they try to go home I'll be relentless.
-
great post........I respect that as well. good on ya for being the better man.
in my own warped mind........I tend to think..........that cat is getting away with 8 kills on my guys........no way he makes it back home...
-
oh well........back to work.
mucho interesting thread....... props to the OP and all of you.
-
<<< is all for making this a Holiday :D
-
If they just try to Ho and they try to go home I'll be relentless.
Me too. If they HO, gauranteed I don't like them heheheh. :aok
-
I was called a dirty kill stealer last night in the MW. I removed a Spitfire's wing tip, spiraled around and then came in and finished it off. He apparently thought there were two P-38s attacking him because he told me I was a dirty killstealer with no talent and the other P-38 should have rightfully gotten the kill. I took offense to the dirty kill stealer comment, it hurt my feelings and I had to log and call my mom.
ack-ack
-
hehehe <snicker>
-
do you and ack ack share a brain?
you both go out of your way to mis quote........and/or feign a fake understanding of what you already know someone is actually saying?
I think you mean that crusty old clown with the Mossie as his avatar.
-
If he had no elevators, he was not a threat and you should not have shot at him.
I didn't. I didn't state that explicitly - I never said whether I fired or not. I made a move that doubtless looked as if I were about to shoot up the falling leaf. As I stated, I couldn't SEE that his hori stab was gone until I got up on his six.
Anyway, I was offended at the implication since I've never intentionally stolen anything. I logged off and called Ack's mom.
She invited me over.
-
I'll let one go every so often if they are damaged and put up a great fight. If they just try to Ho and they try to go home I'll be relentless.
Yep. I've let MANY folks rtb. Because we're both banged up, or I banged them up that time.
-
Where did i put that nath/birdo vid?
WooooooWOooooo!!!!
-
I do not see it as a large and frequently occuring problem. It does lead to some fun sparring on range for entertainment purposes! :D
-
Where did i put that nath/birdo vid?
WooooooWOooooo!!!!
:rofl
-
"Make sure you finish em off <expletive>!"
-
Someone in a D-9 complaining about swooping in and kill stealing
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
-
If you dont want your kill stolen. Dont play with your food.
If you get frustrated with over the shoulder shooters clearing your 12. Steer your plane into the bullets comming over your shoulder
Sends em to the tower every time.
Been seeing a lot of shouder shooters lately. Particularly of names I dont recognize. Been hearing a lot of friendlies exploding behind me lately too.
Names I know and trust. I give a free pass to.
The ones I dont I figure need to learn manners the hard way :D
-
Low flying planes over a spawn spraying tanks with 303 with no hope of damaging it is kill stealing. Because the tanker that drove for half an hour to to get into position to shoots that enemy tank and kill it ends up with an assist while the plane that put 200 rounds of 303 on it gets the kill ain't that the same thing?
-
Don't know what some of you cats are talking about with how you don't see it often.. I see kill stealing in almost every sortie and many of them are the biggest complainers if it's done to them..
In fact, some of the people in this very thread.. :D
Also, it's so ignorant to think that the DA is some holy place where no one hoes, no one steals kills, no one hordes, etc. Some of the most childish and retarded ways to the play the game are common place in the DA all day every day.... I get a laugh when you see people say that if you don't want to get horded or hoed or what ever, you should go to the DA.. lmao
-
I have several opinions on this matter:
1) I view this as a team sport.......and a war.
2) In crowded...close proximity fighting.......nobody's got a claim... you kill whatever you can...however you can...so they don't kill your nearby team mates.
3) I don't give a flying freak about my score........never have never will.
4) Anyone who whines about "that was my kill" should get the hell out of the war ... and jump into the dueling forum.
5) If I'm working on some enemy for 4 minutes........and a guy on my team swoops in and finished him off.......I'll thank him.
i agree with every word. well said that man :aok
-
If you dont want your kill stolen. Dont play with your food.
This is unhelpful advice if you're flying an aircraft with a small ammunition clip. For instance, after shooting off the rear fuselage of a bandit with 30mm, a guy in a Spitfire chased him down to the ground firing his 20mm and received credit for the kill. Shooting until they pop is gratuitous. How kills are awarded should be tied to critical damage to parts like wings and fuselages; not total damage distributed in small amounts all over the airframe.
-
can we agree that it's ok to shoot a flaming A6M, seeing as how they'll fly 7 sectors with fire coming from their butt? :salute
-
I evaded the Yak, btw, with a simple series of rolls
You mean stick stiring? :lol
-
You mean stick stiring? :lol
You might call it that. I normally think of stick stirring as barrel rolling while maintaining altitude - here I was just rolling out of phase with the Yak.
Let me just pontificate a bit on the HO. Those who consider it somehow "less than" should consider that maybe, just maybe, there's something to be learned from ho'ing.
Consider Robert Shaw - he devotes a good deal of his book on air combat (the near-bible, for those unwashed enough to be unfamiliar) to the HO, how to combat it, and how best to deal with it.
I just don't understand this disqualification that many pilots - far better ones than novice I - reserve for an entirely legitimate learning opportunity. It was part of RL, it's part of the game, there are methods built around it. It's here, it's queer, get used to it.
Then again, maybe it's something like two chimps in a gym with revolvers and a bottle of tequila.
-
If you dont want your kill stolen. Dont play with your food.
Also, please, everyone: Wash your hands after you handle the meat.
-
Let me just pontificate a bit on the HO. Those who consider it somehow "less than" should consider that maybe, just maybe, there's something to be learned from ho'ing.
Consider Robert Shaw - he devotes a good deal of his book on air combat (the near-bible, for those unwashed enough to be unfamiliar) to the HO, how to combat it, and how best to deal with it.
I just don't understand this disqualification that many pilots - far better ones than novice I - reserve for an entirely legitimate learning opportunity. It was part of RL, it's part of the game, there are methods built around it. It's here, it's queer, get used to it.
In a game it is about competition. Nothing competitive about a HO. A HO is just one's way of saying he is not confident in his abilities and is not interested in improving them.
-
You might call it that. I normally think of stick stirring as barrel rolling while maintaining altitude - here I was just rolling out of phase with the Yak.
Let me just pontificate a bit on the HO. Those who consider it somehow "less than" should consider that maybe, just maybe, there's something to be learned from ho'ing.
Consider Robert Shaw - he devotes a good deal of his book on air combat (the near-bible, for those unwashed enough to be unfamiliar) to the HO, how to combat it, and how best to deal with it.
I just don't understand this disqualification that many pilots - far better ones than novice I - reserve for an entirely legitimate learning opportunity. It was part of RL, it's part of the game, there are methods built around it. It's here, it's queer, get used to it.
Then again, maybe it's something like two chimps in a gym with revolvers and a bottle of tequila.
You sound like you're not as good as you try to talk.....Here are some credible reasons to HO in AH:
some HO because it's a last ditch effort to kill the la7 that's going for the goon...
some HO because they are fighting 1 vs 4 and it's a last ditch effort to just stay alive...
some HO because it is the best shot on a set of bombers....
Here are some coward reasons and responses to HO:
...he was flying right at me.....
...they did it in WWII...
...when I HO and win, it helps my score....
...if you don't like it, go to the DA......
first of all, if you are a 'win the war at all cost' type of fella...nothing I say is going to make sense....but if you are a fighter type....then listen up...
a majority of the times people go for HO's on me, I simply set up my merge around their HO and kill them easily(if they stay and fight)....most just run, after HOing.....Many, many times in game, I see folks HO a 4 vs 1 because they want the kill that bad...lame really...who wants kills they don't fight for, unless they are some nancy boy herbert milktoast scoreboy cheesecake type? There is no reason to go around HOing people that are dogfighting...if you want to fight, learn how, HOing is just not a smart move 1 vs 1...and it wastes time, if you get something damaged..because then you have to rtb, or bail out and start the flight back to the fight...it just doesn't make sense to HO, instead of learning how to increase your acm skills...the skills will give you much more fun than a 50-50 roll of the dice HO...just sayin.... :aok
-
In a game it is about competition. Nothing competitive about a HO. A HO is just one's way of saying he is not confident in his abilities and is not interested in improving them.
Perhaps, but not all HO's are created equal. Consider the following example - and, full disclosure: I know you're a good cartoon pilot. I was on your 6 once and couldn't close the deal. You later shot me down after I lost sight of you. I wasn't in my normal ride but it hardly mattered. You clearly know how to handle a 38.
1. You approach as if to ho but dive to put your lift vector on the approaching con as he passes just overhead. You fire prior to the downward break just to keep him honest.
2. An enemy is on a friendly 6 - both are approaching. You ho to bail out your buddy.
3. You're in a furball and take a snapshot that happens to be HO.
4. You approach a con ho but see that he's closing at sufficient speed that you can nose down, roll right, nose up and flat turn him to an overshoot, even though you risk receiving a snapshot
5. you ho right into the con's cockpit, guns blazing the whole way.
The issue is definitive. 5. is clearly a mindless HO. However, I'd rate 1-4 fair game. 3 reminds me of a lucky cowl-gun pilot kill I got one day in a furball. I look and there's a f6f crossing my path. I fired, cannons off. He died. I learned little about ACM or competition from that kill. Does that mean I shouldn't have fired?
In sum, the restriction just seems a bit arbitrary.
-
You sound like you're not as good as you try to talk.....Here are some credible reasons to HO in AH:
some HO because it's a last ditch effort to kill the la7 that's going for the goon...
some HO because they are fighting 1 vs 4 and it's a last ditch effort to just stay alive...
some HO because it is the best shot on a set of bombers....
Here are some coward reasons and responses to HO:
...he was flying right at me.....
...they did it in WWII...
...when I HO and win, it helps my score....
...if you don't like it, go to the DA......
first of all, if you are a 'win the war at all cost' type of fella...nothing I say is going to make sense....but if you are a fighter type....then listen up...
a majority of the times people go for HO's on me, I simply set up my merge around their HO and kill them easily(if they stay and fight)....most just run, after HOing.....Many, many times in game, I see folks HO a 4 vs 1 because they want the kill that bad...lame really...who wants kills they don't fight for, unless they are some nancy boy herbert milktoast scoreboy cheesecake type? There is no reason to go around HOing people that are dogfighting...if you want to fight, learn how, HOing is just not a smart move 1 vs 1...and it wastes time, if you get something damaged..because then you have to rtb, or bail out and start the flight back to the fight...it just doesn't make sense to HO, instead of learning how to increase your acm skills...the skills will give you much more fun than a 50-50 roll of the dice HO...just sayin.... :aok
But that's the point. See my subsequent post. I qualified as "novice" btw. I've been doing this for a few months. I finally feel like I've got the hang of a D-9 and some feel for a 109.
I should add, flying a d-9 provides plenty of incentive to not HO - although I do remember fondly one occasion in which I took a chance on such a thing.
I had chased a 38 into a base that, naturally, was crawling with red. I was in my d-9, the 38 was smoking but looked likely to land. I had plenty of smash so I just put the nose down and ran out to sea. A con followed but was pretty far back. I knew he was unlikely to catch me. Still, he continued to follow. At a certain point, I said, wtf, reversed via loop and roll, and went at him guns blazing. He exploded. I want to say it was some guy called Devildawg.
I'd've gotten away cleanly, too, were it not for that golden BB in the rad. Now, were I in a P-47, maybe...
-
But that's the point. See my subsequent post. I qualified as "novice" btw. I've been doing this for a few months. I finally feel like I've got the hang of a D-9 and some feel for a 109.
I didn't mean to sound so nasty...it just came off as you were saying you were avoiding with rolls and stuff, but didnt really know what you were talking about...no major disrespect intended.... :salute
-
I didn't mean to sound so nasty...it just came off as you were saying you were avoiding with rolls and stuff, but didnt really know what you were talking about...no major disrespect intended.... :salute
None really taken. I do know something about the D-9 and it has all come hard. Rolling is the only way to avoid getting killed in that thing and rolling is the only way to get on a 6. You can't flat turn your way to stardom in a d-9. That's part of the reason I like it. I had to learn how to use the vertical. I suspect most of the 38 pilots have to deal with this as well. Anyway, I'll claim to be really good when I can barrel roll the d-9 for 1080 degrees with losing a foot of altitude or my compass heading.
My other goal with that plane: learning how to not get killed when I don't have any alt and am at less than 275 IAS. Life's hard when I'm caught low and slow.
-
Guys who will out-and-out shoot a falling wreck are rare. Most of the time it happens it will be an accident. Friendlies deciding to "GANG" that bandit in your 12 are less rare unfortunately.
fixed :aok
-
1. You approach as if to ho but dive to put your lift vector on the approaching con as he passes just overhead. You fire prior to the downward break just to keep him honest.
I don't fire here but do break.....
2. An enemy is on a friendly 6 - both are approaching. You ho to bail out your buddy.
Not a HO if your angled in which I think you would be to keep from hitting your team mate
3. You're in a furball and take a snapshot that happens to be HO.
That happens... non intentional
4. You approach a con ho but see that he's closing at sufficient speed that you can nose down roll, nose up right and flat turn him to an overshoot, even though you risk receiving a snapshot
Approaching from any front point you risk a snapshot
5. you ho right into the con's cockpit, guns blazing the whole way.
No good unless your way outnumbered
-
NVM. Was gonna vent. :D
-
I don't fire here but do break.....
Not a HO if your angled in which I think you would be to keep from hitting your team mate
That happens... non intentional
Approaching from any front point you risk a snapshot
No good unless your way outnumbered
Well, so here we go, Shuffler. On number 2, where I bail out my buddy, how big does the angle have to be to not constitute a HO? I guarantee you, ask 10 of these clowns and you'll get 10 different answers.
Of course, the proper answer is a cone with a central angle of 15 degrees...
Meanwhile, as I intended, you've just rationalized away 4 of 5 (possibly defined by others as) HOs, one with qualification. It's okay in a furball as long as it's unintentional... it's okay if you're bailing your buddy... it's okay to go into it as a fake/feint...
One man's HO is another man's ACM, or, it's kind of like porno: I know it when I see it?
I concede the point on 5, btw. It's mindless and a bad move with the Jumo out front. I'm just saying that the whole argument reminds me of talking about "fariness".
The concept needs to be well-defined before we use it as a standard. I don't see ho'ing as that well defined - except for case 5.
Also, WAYSTIN just checked his swing. What have you got on him?
-
NVM. Was gonna vent. :D
No, no, let it out. Don't self-edit. Express yourself. :lol
-
#1 Last night I ended up being the only green guy in the midst of 4 reds guys (Spit 16, KI-61, P-38J and a P-47)
I dispatched the KI-61 then turned the 47 into a glider and oiled the pony. We were half a sector from their base and the pony and 47 headed for the barn. The spit followed them and I posted 200 that I was off. Was a good fight and no HOs. Had any of them HO'd I would have pressed the fight even though they were egressing. This fight was all under 5k.
#2 Last night I ended up being the only green guy in the midst of 4 reds guys (Spit 16, Mustang B, P-38J and a KI-61)
I dispatched the spit first... just how it worked out. Then as I was on the tony the pony kept coming through. I hit the mustang on a front quarter as he dove through and then continued on the tony. My number 2 engine failed at this point from an earlier oil hit from the spit. The tony was a glider and I continued to adjust for his moves. We were all on the deck over water. Eventually the 38 and pony finished me off and saved the KI. Great fight #2.
No one ever HO'd but in this position if I had to I would shoot.
EDIT>> Don't think waystin's post was in reference to me.
-
No, no, let it out. Don't self-edit. Express yourself. :lol
Sorry but no, those discussions are best handled privately not here on the boards.
:salute
-
Sorry but no, those discussions are best handled privately not here on the boards.
:salute
You pass too. Damn. I knew this was a good clientele.
-
i love when your working on a plane and someone calls out a check 6 call so you break off, only to learn theres no one behind ya, they dive in for the kill :furious
-
i love when your working on a plane and someone calls out a check 6 call so you break off, only to learn theres no one behind ya, they dive in for the kill :furious
Had you been watching you'd know you were clear :)
-
i love when your working on a plane and someone calls out a check 6 call so you break off, only to learn theres no one behind ya, they dive in for the kill :furious
I was in a fight like that a few years ago against Tac, both of us in P-38s. Some guy comes in and gives me a couple of check 6 calls, so I break to avoid what I think is a pick pass on me. Alas, it was just the other guy wanting to get me out of the way so he could pick Tac and claim the kill for himself. After Tac easily reversed on the interloper and shot him down, Tac and I resumed our fight.
ack-ack
-
I was in a fight like that a few years ago against Tac, both of us in P-38s. Some guy comes in and gives me a couple of check 6 calls, so I break to avoid what I think is a pick pass on me. Alas, it was just the other guy wanting to get me out of the way so he could pick Tac and claim the kill for himself. After Tac easily reversed on the interloper and shot him down, Tac and I resumed our fight.
ack-ack
Yup works wonders. When the guy hollers for help just check 6 him. :aok
-
some HO because it's a last ditch effort to kill the la7 that's going for the goon...
some HO because they are fighting 1 vs 4 and it's a last ditch effort to just stay alive...
some HO because it is the best shot on a set of bombers....
If I am turning with a plane that obviously has an ability to turn better but I see him drop flaps in order to get to a headon position... Im going to shoot him. Just one example of how the situation can influence a pilots decision and yet the faster turning plane will ALWAYS scream 'HO' yet its his actions that brought it to that point.
-
This is unhelpful advice if you're flying an aircraft with a small ammunition clip. For instance, after shooting off the rear fuselage of a bandit with 30mm, a guy in a Spitfire chased him down to the ground firing his 20mm and received credit for the kill. Shooting until they pop is gratuitous. How kills are awarded should be tied to critical damage to parts like wings and fuselages; not total damage distributed in small amounts all over the airframe.
So what you do is make a note of who did it. Give em a vox call out noting that they are obviously hard up for kills.
And the next time you see when that person needs a check 6..or his 6 cleared. Dont.
I do that to those and those that decide to use me for bait and dont have the curtsy to let me know they are doing it.
I dont carry a small ammo load But when Im in the D9 I usually cant spend alot of time twisting and turning with my target. Lest I become one myself. I take my shot and then move on to the next available target. Thus i get a lot of assists. I've probobly lost alot kills in the same manner you have mentioned.
But on the other hand. I've also had a quite a few incidents where I've ended up fighting someone. blasting them until they pop, or shot their wings off. and gotten only an assist.
In the end I figure it all balances out.
-
can we agree that it's ok to shoot a flaming A6M, seeing as how they'll fly 7 sectors with fire coming from their butt? :salute
DEFINITELY!
Exactly why I argue that if we are going to have pilot wounds modeled they way they are. we should also have some sort of ill effect modeled into the flaming chariot.
As they are now. Its like if we had blood on the windscreen . But no detrimental effect (blackouts) or anything to discourage continuing to fight.
Cept for bombers that are nowhere near their target.
Any aircraft on fire is still a valid target till it blows up.
-
i like it when someone brags that they own you after they HO you. :rofl
-
i like it when someone brags that they own you after they HO you. :rofl
There is a tool that flies in the MW, he's easy to spot. He'll usually be found where the biggest fight is, flies at 25,000 to 30,000ft and looks for an enemy that is engaged in a fight with someone else. He'll then dive down in his Spitfire and pick the other guy and then will brag on open channel "Player XXX easy kill". He will also park his 2nd account in another country, look for someone in that country and use the .wingman command on the other guy to light him up on the map 'dar. He'll then use his main account to hunt the other person he's marked with the .wingman command on his 2nd account and wait until that person is engaged in another fight and swoop down from his perch and pick the guy. Of course, afterwards on open channel, "Player XXX easy kill".
ack-ack
-
If I am turning with a plane that obviously has an ability to turn better but I see him drop flaps in order to get to a headon position... Im going to shoot him. Just one example of how the situation can influence a pilots decision and yet the faster turning plane will ALWAYS scream 'HO' yet its his actions that brought it to that point.
no matter the plane I am in....I try to put the enemy in a position, where, if he decides to go for that frontal, he will lose a bit of positioning.....now, sometimes, I take it just a bit further, and throw some dice on the fact that, if he goes this far for the frontal, and misses(see additional information in dodging the HO 101)....his scalp will be put on a plate and delivered to my cockpit within next two turns.....I like this gamble....it can only be beaten by running....which, is another reason I am not fond of finding one of the HOing chaps to try and get a decent fight out of....I do have to add, that of recently, I have been finding that the chaps that go for HO's die rather quickly if they stay and fight....and with minimal effort in attention to their threat....funny how that works...... :aok
-
Many times when I have engaged a seemingly undamaged fighter and managed to put a 30mm or a burst of quad 20mms in him and down he goes without a wing etc. and I get an assist. Do I feel like robbed?
I mean if damages and critical damages are not separated in any way who knows who has earned a kill. If you put, say, 600 .303s in an enemy plane here and there without causing any major damage and somebody shoots him down with a single hit from a 30mm which removes a wing, who has earned the kill? You by putting lots of random damage here and there or the guy with single hit causing critical damage?
Of course it is a totally different matter if people keep diving down after planes that are already going down without control surfaces etc.
-C+
-
Many times when I have engaged a seemingly undamaged fighter and managed to put a 30mm or a burst of quad 20mms in him and down he goes without a wing etc. and I get an assist. Do I feel like robbed?
I mean if damages and critical damages are not separated in any way who knows who has earned a kill. If you put, say, 600 .303s in an enemy plane here and there without causing any major damage and somebody shoots him down with a single hit from a 30mm which removes a wing, who has earned the kill? You by putting lots of random damage here and there or the guy with single hit causing critical damage?
Of course it is a totally different matter if people keep diving down after planes that are already going down without control surfaces etc.
-C+
Exactly. The situation is quite murky when it's 7mm damage all over the aircraft before the spud hits (and I wouldn't make a stink over it), but it's crystal clear when the spud has already taken off a critical part.
-
I have been finding that the chaps that go for HO's die rather quickly if they stay and fight....and with minimal effort in attention to their threat....funny how that works...... :aok
Not funny ... logical ... they are 1 trick ponys ... once the HO is gone ... they got nutin'.
If they hang around for the fight, I have more respect for them than the HO 'n Run types. If they hang around and fight, they more than likely will learn something ... either better fighting tactics ... or learn the HO 'n Run move.
-
Many times when I have engaged a seemingly undamaged fighter and managed to put a 30mm or a burst of quad 20mms in him and down he goes without a wing etc. and I get an assist. Do I feel like robbed?
I mean if damages and critical damages are not separated in any way who knows who has earned a kill. If you put, say, 600 .303s in an enemy plane here and there without causing any major damage and somebody shoots him down with a single hit from a 30mm which removes a wing, who has earned the kill? You by putting lots of random damage here and there or the guy with single hit causing critical damage?
Of course it is a totally different matter if people keep diving down after planes that are already going down without control surfaces etc.
-C+
Problem is that we never really know where and how much damage was done prior to the engagement.
For example:
What if a wing required 70% or more damage to fall off.
I fight this guy and I have accumulated 65% damage to his right wing ... you zoom in or if I move onto to some other target ... and you place 1 30mm round to the right wing.
Well ... seeing that I scored 65% damage ... there is only 35% damage left ... and only 5% more damage needed before the wing falls off. No matter how you swing it ... I am going to get the kill after he flutters to the ground.
HiTech did rumble around the idea, in another post, that when a aircraft has taken critical damage (missing wing, missing empanage, etc) ... all damage scoring will be ignored after the critical failure ... which would defeat the vampires that feel the need to suck any and all remaining blood from a wingless aircraft as they head to Terra Firma.
-
Not funny ... logical ... they are 1 trick ponys ...
*cringe*
did it have to be ponies?
-
*cringe*
did it have to be ponies?
Once they come down..... they generally go the rest of the way down soon enough.
-
DEFINITELY!
Exactly why I argue that if we are going to have pilot wounds modeled they way they are. we should also have some sort of ill effect modeled into the flaming chariot.
As they are now. Its like if we had blood on the windscreen . But no detrimental effect (blackouts) or anything to discourage continuing to fight.
Cept for bombers that are nowhere near their target.
Any aircraft on fire is still a valid target till it blows up.
Definitely... once you have a flamer most ( I have come across some guys who will egress the fight) try to get all they can any way they can, so to leave it, especially during a furball situation is dangerous (in the game sense of the word).
-
Once they come down..... they generally go the rest of the way down soon enough.
:rolleyes:
*sigh*
-
This one is just sad...
http://www.mediafire.com/file/mwizzwtnltm/AAhawk.ahf
-
I can understand your frustration. But........As a flaming arrow myself more than a few times, I have been able to knock down several who no longer thought of me as a threat. (most=2 in a sortie) I have very little to lose if I'm going to go down anyway.
I think the most satisfying (while on fire) is getting the guy who torched you.
However I agree that having five or six guys shooting at wreckage as it spirals to the ground is simply ignorant and or greedy.
Just my Buck 'O Five.
-
I can understand your frustration. But........As a flaming arrow myself more than a few times, I have been able to knock down several who no longer thought of me as a threat. (most=2 in a sortie) I have very little to lose if I'm going to go down anyway.
I think the most satisfying (while on fire) is getting the guy who torched you.
However I agree that having five or six guys shooting at wreckage as it spirals to the ground is simply ignorant and or greedy.
Just my Buck 'O Five.
I killed a Pony guy once right after he'd de-engined my Dora. I stirred a bit (half-piped) and he overshot. It was, admittedly, a lucky shot - and he was good in his 51B. He was one of two. I'd called for help and fought as hard as I could but, alas, was overmatched. Once I got the lucky kill (just after a bud had shown up), the other Pony fled. I bailed.
Then I got on the BBS and talked about how I owned his punk a**.
After that, I posted up some pics of my schlong on a photo hosting site, watched Shemale Reformatory* in HD, then logged back on to AHII and practiced HO'ing and colliding with the emmaknee (and an occasional friendly) just to work on my ACM skills. I'm getting really good. Usually, my prop is in the guy's canopy before he's exhausted half his belt. Pretty soon, I'll be able to visit Gunther Rall and talk HOTactics and HOHistory.
*file under Ellis, B.E.
-
My rules are simple: If you see me fighting someone feel free to jump right in there. In MA there are never fair fights. Don't expect one and you won't be disappointed. If you see two guys fighting you have no idea how that fight developed. You can just assume it was not on equal terms. The only exceptions I make is when I see someone I know has solid fighting skills I will stay out or ask. That is the only time. You just can't ask when there are 10 guys all fighting. That's cumbersome.
If a plane is still mobile it's a target. If a plane is dropping out of the sky, missing wings, tails etc or burning, it's not. Although I sometimes wonder about Zeros and Niki's.
-
My opinion:
If it's burning and flying, it's a threat. It's alive and flying, I'll shoot it. Too many times have people said "That zeke is dead, that IL2 is dead" and the burning sucker ends up on my tail and kills me. If it's missing a wing it is no threat.
-
My opinion:
If it's burning and flying, it's a threat. It's alive and flying, I'll shoot it. Too many times have people said "That zeke is dead, that IL2 is dead" and the burning sucker ends up on my tail and kills me. If it's missing a wing it is no threat.
One would think you'd notice something marked by a huge fireball closing on your six.
-
This brings on a different question.
Around two weeks ago I was flying with a bunch of green around me and came upon a red 109 g4. I was of course in -> _ _ _ _ _ _. Those of you who know me can fill those blanks in without a problem ;)
I underestimated the 109 on the merge, and thinking I'm so good and what not pulled a really crappy merge. Needless to say I was very soon in trouble and was forced onto the defensive, something which I suck at. I was thinking 'Man this is so fun, this guy actually knows what hes doing!'. Do you know the feeling when your fighting a very good stick, and you know you've messed up so you just want the guy to finish you off and give him the kill for a job well done all the time your on the defensive?
So needless to say, I was doing what I thought would be my last manouver when I hear tracers then something blowing up. It was a green guy ' coming to save me ', when i never asked him to.
Needless to say I got pissed off and apologized to the guy who I was fighting. I know how that feels.
Are you wrong to get mad at the guy who came in to save you, presumably with the very best of intentions?
-
..I agree that most occasions with most people it's a mistake - keep in mind there is an issue here also that is affected by the size of your monitor.
A missing tail or a partial wing loss that someone can easily see with a 32" monitor at 1000 yards may take someone with a 17" screen at least 400 yards or less to see clearly and they may have been firing at 600yds.
cheers eh!
-
One would think you'd notice something marked by a huge fireball closing on your six.
Thought it was this guy:
(http://images.amazon.com/images/G/01/video/stills/f4-flame_large.jpg)
-
This brings on a different question.
Was it one person who swooped in?, did you ask for others to stay out?.... In a situation like this I would usually ask before entering to take out the red guy ( red guy just entered the area at the wrong time)....sometimes I have had no answer and gone in and got told what a sap I am for doing so. If I get into a fight and want to keep it 1 v 1 I will tell all on vox around me. of course that's not to say somebody who was just out of range pops in but then I am watching the green to ensure my request is being fulfilled, if it is not I will quite often (especially if it is somebody I know was in Vox range) pull out of the fight and let said red guy deal with that threat and re engage the fight after...if he is still there that is.
As a red guy in that situation I would myself be expecting the others to join in and use my SA accordingly. You can soon tell if you are going to be left 1 v 1 or not. It does get annoying when you get a whole string of guys in on you but that's how it goes I suppose and in those situations I take it low and try make some of them hit the deck before I die......
-
Yup announce on vox to please stay clear most will.
-
:cry
:rofl
-
:cry
:rofl
Last time I saw an image like the one depicted in your avatar, it was on the conning tower of a movie prop Type VII U-Boat - and might've sported a different color.
-
I don't concur......and I've been here almost 2 years.
honestly.........I think it's a common whine vets use when it happenes.....for obvious reasons.
Its war......that's how I treat it.
So after you died the first time you quit playing? Cause if it's war, you only get one life :)
-
I have not flown in a long time.
Even when i do i dont get a lot of kills.
I once got accused of kill stealing by a now exsquaddie whom i really respect because i see him as a fair and honerable man.
At the time it was just another target in my sights, perhaps my end had not updated, perhaps i did not see the damage I dont know...
No matter what you do at somepoint someone will accuse you of kill stealing warrented or not
The only person who is gonna know the truth is you.
Its a game play fair and have fun...
>
-
We steal corky/guppy's kills off his six all the time......................... ...........................
The whole time he is..."I got'em I got'em...... only 15 more turns....
-
We steal corky/guppy's kills off his six all the time......................... ...........................
The whole time he is..."I got'em I got'em...... only 15 more turns....
15? HA!
hell, by then he's on fire crashing in to things.
I know he's your CO, but be honest here.
-
ok he says 13 but I rounded up.
-
See Rule #10
-
See Rule #10
-
Actually with the new damage model I doubt this is that big of issue anymore. Usually if you land good solid hits removing parts or causing oil coolant or fuel leaks you'll get the kill. If you set a plane on fire now they don't last near as long as they used to.
-
If I was the OP I would have shot the pony. Just because it was missing its elevators doesn't mean its down. Iv flown back 25-50 miles and landed successfully many times with no elevators. IMO a plane isn't down unless its missing a whole wing, the whole tail, or in flames anything other then that I'm squeezing the trigger.
The last time I "yielded" to a guy who barked out "it's dead...leave it alone".... I turned hard right to avoid it as a favor to the "killer".....and the "killee" (dead plane) shot me down.
-
I try not to steal any kills but it happens sometimes. If someone is having difficult time with someone or couple of planes, I will come and help (when requested if its 1vs1) and sometimes I will just try to get few rounds into the baddie to secure a kill for one of my countrymen even though sometimes I get credit for the kill. I usually apologize for it but still, feel kind of selfish when it happens.
-
wondering how many times those of us here also were told "leave him..he's dead".......so we do.......and said dead aircraft shoots you in the face.
It pisses me off.......but I figure it's common courtesy.
Well i can say it happened to me earlier today. :furious
-
The last time I "yielded" to a guy who barked out "it's dead...leave it alone".... I turned hard right to avoid it as a favor to the "killer".....and the "killee" (dead plane) shot me down.
That's why I don't break off a plane unless I'm positive its going down no matter how much someone is crying.
-
.
-
:headscratch: they remade the damage model so as to stop kill stealing... :lol
-
I'm Bumping this because I think it's one of the best threads ever made here.....and it always seems to bring up impassioned responses. would dig hearing some others chime in on this who have not participated...and/or from any of you who may have changed your mind since your original responses.
Congradulations for getting a thread locked. Guess it's too hard to start a new thread and linking it to the old thread.
Actually, it's still not too late.
IN
wrongway
-
Congradulations for getting a thread locked. Guess it's too hard to start a new thread and linking it to the old thread.
Actually, it's still not too late.
IN
wrongway
I wasn't aware that goes on here. and...why should it? why post a new thread when I would rather bump the original and show due props to the the originator?
the NFL board I belong to deletes new threads that are replica's of old threads...I guess I'm used to that.
additionally...I asked if anyone who posted in this thread had subsequently changed their opinions.
btw....in consideration of your above styled comment.......it sounds a lot more like "skuzzy...please lock this thread". more and more you are reminding me of the kids I used to shove into their lockers back in jr high. good work.
*** if you have not sent skuzzy a message yet...... include this one as well. yet another great thread I bumped (May 18th) that you will hate because it's still going strong:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,266749.45.html
-
I wasn't aware that goes on here. and...why should it? why post a new thread when I would rather bump the original and show due props to the the originator?
the NFL board I belong to deletes new threads that are replica's of old threads...I guess I'm used to that.
additionally...I asked if anyone who posted in this thread had subsequently changed their opinions.
btw....in consideration of your above styled comment.......it sounds a lot more like "skuzzy...please lock this thread". more and more you are reminding me of the kids I used to shove into their lockers back in jr high. good work.
THere's a Sticky in each forum Forum Posting Rules - All users read! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,229014.0.html)
10- Do not punt topics. Punting would be making a non-substantive post for the express purpose of bring the thread to the top of the thread list.
Of course, you did make a substantive post, sort of.
And rule 10 has always seemed to me to contradict:
3- Do not open a new thread that duplicates a current topic.
Maybe seven months ago isn't considered "current".
Just a heads up.
5- Members are asked to not act as "back seat moderators". If you feel a post violates the forum rules, the use the "Report to Moderator" link in the post to report it.
wrongway
Nooooo, not the locker....
-
thank you babygirl...
let skuzzy know about this one too: (I bumped it on May 18)
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,266749.45.html
your dedication is awesome.
-
Just stating a fact here zeta that there's a difference between an already pointless thread that everyone loves and bumping a topic that has an already moot point... HTC redid the damage model to stop kill stealing...
although i gotta say wrongway that you kinda contradicted your statement of rule 5 by stating rule 5 (in addition to 10 and 3) :headscratch: :lol
-
The real question here is why do you fly...
Fly a few fights where the moment you "win" you let the guy go (if he's still got enough plane left to control). Just give him a "fun fight <S>" <--"Plane type" and go about your business....
Then decide how you feel about it later. Does how you feel about the fights matter most....or what the text buffer says when you land. Now the flip side in all fairness is I've flown the vulchematic express and nursed the puppy home with 1/2 of it missing just so I could land my pelts. both can have merit, as a general rule the only time I ever consider "swooping a cripple" is if someone calls it as down that I don't like....then I go shoot it.
-
Just stating a fact here zeta that there's a difference between an already pointless thread that everyone loves and bumping a topic that has an already moot point... HTC redid the damage model to stop kill stealing...
:headscratch: :lol
understood........but that has not stopped many cats here from 'calling out ..he's dead...or he's mine..or leave him alone"... I was just looking at the broader scope of the debate at hand.
-
although i gotta say wrongway that you kinda contradicted your statement of rule 5 by stating rule 5 (in addition to 10 and 3) :headscratch: :lol
Yeah, I know.
:eek: :aok
Everyone loves a hypocrite. ;)
wrongway
-
Since the BUMP has occurred here, I just want to rescind the comments I made 9 months ago!!! Since changes have been made that is! :aok
A burning bomber is really the only time I get upset with thieves.......... Especially if it's not over target. You have a 24 burning up, 2 still fine, and the newb comes and starts raking into the flamer. WTF?
A fighter that's on fire can still kill me and my friends......... I say that is fair game.
-
good on you, sir. well done.
-
While I was flying AH I always called off other friendly planes when I saw it was burning ( bombers mostly) so the guy could have his kill. I my self a few times stole a kill accidentlly when I fired at range 400 meters out in a high G turn not seeing the other guy hidden by my wings. I heard his dismay and I said I was sorry I didn't see you. If you say your sorry that may be the end of it most times but there are some out there that just plain don't care and will reply I don't see your name on it so I kill it. I have had several taken from me and I just say oh man lost another kill but all in all I landed my share of kills in the past. You just have to keep your head up and eyes out and shoot straight the kills will come in due time.
-
The only problem I have with kill steals is when the plane is burning or is missing wing/tails, in other words if it is falling to the ground and some dweeblet decides to steal it, yea I get mad.
-BigBOBCH
-
The only problem I have with kill steals is when the plane is burning or is missing wing/tails, in other words if it is falling to the ground and some dweeblet decides to steal it, yea I get mad.
-BigBOBCH
As it's been said before, this entire thread is a moot point with the new changes. If you shoot a wing off, that bugger can empty all his guns into the plane and not get a kill. Damage stops being added to the plane once a major component is removed.
-
Hit them in the right spot and there won't be anything left to steal. :D
-
It isn't nearly as bad as it used to be. Now it stops counting damage towards the kill once certain kinds of damage is done. Say, missing a wing or a tail and the sort.
-
It isn't nearly as bad as it used to be. Now it stops counting damage towards the kill once certain kinds of damage is done. Say, missing a wing or a tail and the sort.
This. ^
The only way you can "steal" a kill anymore is usually hitting birds with half a wing, as it still keeps counting damage and you can load a ton into the main canopy and it usually soaks up more damage then what half a wing is worth.
-
It isn't nearly as bad as it used to be. Now it stops counting damage towards the kill once certain kinds of damage is done. Say, missing a wing or a tail and the sort.
HiTech<- holds finger to lips. Shhhh you may give away the secret that HTC listens to customers needs.
HiTech
-
understood........but that has not stopped many cats here from 'calling out ..he's dead...or he's mine..or leave him alone"... I was just looking at the broader scope of the debate at hand.
when i call out he's dead i call it out due to the fact i want the others to know an enemy is downed and they do not need to look for it... the he's mine i call out when i know i can handle the fight i'm engaged in and the others can fight more necessary targets to create an efficient and effective fighter force in the air at the time... the leave him alone i call out when the enemy put a good fight up and was rtb or ditching to save score and dignity or on the rare occasion that someone chooses to check my 12 o clock target when i have 5 on MY 6 :furious :furious :furious ...
-
when i call out he's dead i call it out due to the fact i want the others to know an enemy is downed and they do not need to look for it...
That broken sentence is a good point I think Zeta might not quite understand. As I approach 2 years on Aces High, I can tell my SA is drastically improving, I can understand where multiple cons are at and where they might be next. So, it's nice if there are some other friendlies around to call out information, including if the plane has gone down.
Calling out "KI down" is a lot different than calling out "HE'S DOWN HE'S DOWN, DON'T SHOOT HIM"
-
just ask before you jump in. folks seem to forget that we're all in different stages of experience levels. some guys want the help, others do not. just ask your fellow countryman if he needs a hand. :salute
this is the only way to go :aok
froger
-
I still believe that a kill cannot be stolen. Its built into the coad. I have checked the message buffer and it has never said that a kill was stolen from me. I will ask if its a 1v1 if help is needed, if and only if i am 3k or more away. if i am flying around and i see a red plane being chased by somebody else less than 2k away, i will shoot. way too many times, i have been shot down by somebody that said " i got it handled and the dang con turns around and catches me unaware. post all you want about how it should be/could be done. seen lots of people that always complain about somebody else stealing his/her kill, and they in turn will do the same thing.
semp
-
There is no such thing as kill stealing. It's called perk point redistribution.
-
I'm Bumping this because I think it's one of the best threads ever made here.....and it always seems to bring up impassioned responses. would dig hearing some others chime in on this who have not participated...and/or from any of you who may have changed your mind since your original responses.
First, Holy Necro-Bump. What is your major malfunction, numbnuts? (Sorry, but I get that kind of response every time I bump a thread). By taking my frustration with that response out on you now, I figure the score now stands at something like:
Me: 1
The World: 1
Since I got called just about every name in the book for a bump I did a while back. It's amazing what people can read into your character from a bump. For example, did you know that asking for something in a bumped thread means that you're impatient, immature, of unsound character, and untrustworthy around minors? Try to get that DNA out of your clown suit, my good man, else, next thing you know, you're on the sexual predator list.
Second,
Thank you, thank you... it was a good thread when I started it, it's a good thread now.
You're all kill stealers and thread-bumping perverts - which is not to say a bad sort of people.
Oddly, in the intervening months, as I've seen my k/d something like double (but still less than 1, sadly) from the usual noob multiple, I have not run into this issue at all - although I did get annoyed one day with Lute. He doesn't know it, though I made ref to it here a while back. It just seemed like every time I got on someone's six, I'd see a stream of tracers magically appear from somewhere above or below me. Inevitably, it was more accurate than my own. I can't complain, after all, you don't always get a learning opp like that. It just felt like being close enough to whiff the cigar - just in time to be DENIED the cigar.
-
Well i can say it happened to me earlier today. :furious
Yeah, though I shot up a couple of Pony in my g-14 the other day. I'd just killed a 26 and wanted the multiple just to land it but had exhausted my ammo. The 51 had lost parts and was leaking but I was done and had to rtb. Deakon was above and closed on the Pony. I encouraged him. He blew its wing off. I vox'ed, "let's see who they give it to". They awarded it me. I'm assuming under the new model you record some level of damage on the target and they divvy kill/assist based on rrelative level.
Anyway, usually I'm helped by someone coming in and finishing. My squaddie finished an A6m for me the other day as well.
OTOH, Pawz and Mk84 got into it the other day over a 190 kill. Pawz was on the guy's six and MK came in and b n z'ed the guy. Pawz got on 200 and called MK a dork or some such name. MK responded with some form of "fellate me, good sir" and a "next time, I'll let him kill you."
That's all light stuff but, imj, kill stealing isn't that big an issue. If Pawz hadn't closed the deal from the 6, MK had a better position - as was supported by the empirical FACT that MK got the kill quicker.
-
While I was flying AH I always called off other friendly planes when I saw it was burning ( bombers mostly) so the guy could have his kill. I my self a few times stole a kill accidentlly when I fired at range 400 meters out in a high G turn not seeing the other guy hidden by my wings. I heard his dismay and I said I was sorry I didn't see you. If you say your sorry that may be the end of it most times but there are some out there that just plain don't care and will reply I don't see your name on it so I kill it. I have had several taken from me and I just say oh man lost another kill but all in all I landed my share of kills in the past. You just have to keep your head up and eyes out and shoot straight the kills will come in due time.
Whoa, whoa, and triple whoa, here...
Gaboon, are you not the SAME Gaboon who started THIS thread: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,287204.0.html ?
So what happened?
False withdrawal is always risky.
-
D9s split-S ing, P51s diving . . . . sounds like a real fun furball :rofl
-
D9s split-S ing, P51s diving . . . . sounds like a real fun furball :rofl
I'm so glad you're entertained. You could've called it an extended, kind of widely-spread, furball. There was a 262 up there as well. It wasn't like a Hurri/Brewi/Spitty kind of thing. The alt was a little "elevated" too. I still think of that as a bit of an odd fight. I'd still call it fun, though. The clear implication to what you've stated is that there must be tight sustained turning for fun to take place.
I disagree.
-
I The clear implication to what you've stated is that there must be tight sustained turning for fun to take place.
I disagree.
Why do you disagree? Makes it so mach easier for a D9 to give the turning guy a lesson in acm and SA :D
-
Why do you disagree? Makes it so mach easier for a D9 to give the turning guy a lesson in acm and SA :D
I'm not sure where you're going here.
Funny thing, though, is I love all this localized whining about the Spitfire. When I check my stats, I think 51D is the one that kills has me at the worst ratio - and usually because of breakdowns in my own SA. That I get killed by the "pick and run" special, whether I'm in the g-14 or d-9, makes me wonder why there isn't more whining about the Pony. Most Spits can be found low and slow - where you can avoid 'em. Not so the Pony, d9, Typh, Temp, etc. Do away with icons and the advantage shifts even more heavily in favor of speed and firepower.
-
I'm not sure where you're going here.
Funny thing, though, is I love all this localized whining about the Spitfire. When I check my stats, I think 51D is the one that kills has me at the worst ratio - and usually because of breakdowns in my own SA. That I get killed by the "pick and run" special, whether I'm in the g-14 or d-9, makes me wonder why there isn't more whining about the Pony. Most Spits can be found low and slow - where you can avoid 'em. Not so the Pony, d9, Typh, Temp, etc. Do away with icons and the advantage shifts even more heavily in favor of speed and firepower.
That is easy to answer, I think. Typh and Temp dont have numbers. You don;t encounter them that often and most people cant fight in them . They are ground attack after all. The 51 kills you because the D9 is an interceptor, not a dog fighter. It can fly very fast very straight (as the P51), however if a 51 caches you, it can maneuver better than your D9. So, in a fight, it will kill you.
Its like NASCAR. You can make left turns all day long but once the 51 (or anything else for that matter) forces you to make a right, you are lost bahahahahaahahah :rofl :rofl :rofl
-
That is easy to answer, I think. Typh and Temp dont have numbers. You don;t encounter them that often and most people cant fight in them . They are ground attack after all. The 51 kills you because the D9 is an interceptor, not a dog fighter. It can fly very fast very straight (as the P51), however if a 51 caches you, it can maneuver better than your D9. So, in a fight, it will kill you.
Its like NASCAR. You can make left turns all day long but once the 51 (or anything else for that matter) forces you to make a right, you are lost bahahahahaahahah :rofl :rofl :rofl
THAT'S why I fly the g14 more, now. What I give up in speed (not that much - ~20 mph at alt) I feel I get back in some turning ability. I'm painfully aware of the d-9s weakness as a dogfighter. You can only make up for so much of it using a vert/roll immie.
I.E. the answer to "how long can you use vertical + roll to turn with a Pony" is "until I stall" or "until I crash" - and either one results in a dead Dora pilot. And, of course, you can't run 'em since the speed advantage isn't - at least w/r the Pony.
I'm painfully aware of the g14's sustained turn limitations as well but given it's E income and climb rate, you can do a lot of climb and swoop and you can also stay on a 6 for a longer time without having to worry so much about energy loss. Once the E is gone in the d-9, you're pretty well at someone else's mercy.
-
Actually, the 14 without the gondies is not bad at all vs a 51. A lot will depend on the e states at the merge (if there is one) and the pilot stiles, but you have a good chance in it.
-
Actually, the 14 without the gondies is not bad at all vs a 51. A lot will depend on the e states at the merge (if there is one) and the pilot stiles, but you have a good chance in it.
I've been flying most of the last couple of months WITH the gondos. It's a noticeable diff. As long as I SEE the Pony and avoid the HO or diving pass, I'm okay. The Pony can't sustain a climb (though it can zoom one, certainly) with the G14, I don't think even with the gondos. Turnwise, of course, I note that you can always seem to tighten your 109 up, even loaded with the hated wingpods, by dropping the nose a bit. The real danger for the 109 pilot, imj, is that the Pony just runs you - and comes back above you later. Indeed, pursuing the Pony gets pretty hard - you have to be used to using the trim. The Pony is comfortable at speeds at which the 109 will lock up.
-
Whoa, whoa, and triple whoa, here...
Gaboon, are you not the SAME Gaboon who started THIS thread: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,287204.0.html ?
So what happened?
False withdrawal is always risky.
While I was flying AH I always called off other friendly planes when I saw it was burning ( bombers mostly) so the guy could have his kill.
Read carefully before your rants.
-
Read carefully before your rants.
Ah, so sorry... So while Gaboon has sworn off AH, he still frequents the BBS.
That's sort of like owning the cow without getting the milk, isn't it? Getting the crabs without ...?
-
Getting the crabs without ...?
drawn butter?
-
Hmmm I wonder why that HiTech character never gets Skuzzied :D
-
Hmmm I wonder why that HiTech character never gets Skuzzied :D
I bet they have a bypass code to enter any forum at any time........AND unlimited ammo.
-
Why that is just unfair.... :headscratch:
-
Actually, the 14 without the gondies is not bad at all vs a 51. A lot will depend on the e states at the merge (if there is one) and the pilot stiles, but you have a good chance in it.
In a DA fight the G14 will own a p51 if both pilots are of equal skill & p51 actually fights. The p51 looses its advantages once it gets slow, and the G14 can be one hellofa beast. In the MA where there is a large furball, keeping it fast with the P51, you will be more successful than in a G14 due to its speed and better high speed handling (think 1 notch of flaps at high speeds for a quick turn).
-
LOL....I have people follow my kills and shoot at a falling plane without wings OR tail AND on fire and then tell me they just wanted to see if they could get an assist or better yet "stop whining". funny how it's only whining when it's YOUR kill they steal and you say something. my favorite is when they slam into the ground chasing my kill....LOL...to bad you can't get those proxies as well. it ain't all anxious kids stealing kills either and it sure ISN'T a coincidence when you seem to get 25 assists in a row while watching someone shoot till the kill you thought was yours explodes while falling sans wing
-
Ah, so sorry... So while Gaboon has sworn off AH, he still frequents the BBS.
That's sort of like owning the cow without getting the milk, isn't it? Getting the crabs without ...?
Actually I think there are quite a few people on the BBS who aren't in game for a variety of reasons.
:salute
-
Actually I think there are quite a few people on the BBS who aren't in game for a variety of reasons.
:salute
Indeed, I have little doubt there are those who stay here for the "fellowship". Not my thing - no offence... If there's no mission, there's no fun.
But, again, I question the dramatic signoff. To me, it was always the "how" of it, not the what or why.
-
But, again, I question the dramatic signoff. To me, it was always the "how" of it, not the what or why.
Yeah, I can agree with that.
-
I had a guy beotchslap me once after he failed to get a kill credit for a blatant steal attempt. Silly game.
-
LOL....I have people follow my kills and shoot at a falling plane without wings OR tail AND on fire and then tell me they just wanted to see if they could get an assist or better yet "stop whining". funny how it's only whining when it's YOUR kill they steal and you say something. my favorite is when they slam into the ground chasing my kill....LOL...to bad you can't get those proxies as well. it ain't all anxious kids stealing kills either and it sure ISN'T a coincidence when you seem to get 25 assists in a row while watching someone shoot till the kill you thought was yours explodes while falling sans wing
Nice your back playin. Cant wait to hear you on range vox again.
:aok