Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: saantana on October 09, 2009, 02:03:49 PM
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I thought this would be nice. A lot of us have IT experience and participate in one way or another.
HTC could tap into that resource by publishing a specification of what a 3D model should satisfy in order to be considered for the game.
Now, they could hold competitions on submissions and choose models that make it into the game based on usability / how well the model was made.
Thoughts?
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Probably not going to happen any time soon. Look at how long it takes to model a new plane as it is. There's a LOT of work that goes into it. Now imagine trying to weed out submissions from a couple dozen people outside the company.
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It has great intentions but......
I don't tell anyone how I do my work for my business..
Why...
I dont't want them to know how I do it. :bolt:
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Probably not going to happen any time soon. Look at how long it takes to model a new plane as it is. There's a LOT of work that goes into it. Now imagine trying to weed out submissions from a couple dozen people outside the company.
I'm sure weeding through submissions is less work then the actual modeling :aok
It would allow for more models per time at little extra cost to HTC themselves, and allow for more community participation.
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It has great intentions but......
I don't tell anyone how I do my work for my business..
Why...
I dont't want them to know how I do it. :bolt:
That's true, however 3D modeling is hardly a company secret. The algorithms that are used to model the models behavior are I'm sure, but those are not required to be made public for this to work.
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But the submissions may not be up to par. I know you said give us guidelines as to what they want, but I guarantee youll get guys who once find out about submissions, do some crappy plane as a P80 or B29 and submit it. HTC takes time to do each invididual detail, spec, of the plane. I just cant see this coming to pass any time soon...
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As someone who's done a bit of modelling I can tell you that checking for errors, duplicate faces, invalid faces, extra polygons, properly setting meshes, etc. etc. by ITSELF is a time-consuming process. Having twenty guys submit a model for one aircraft is only going to add to the workload.
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But the submissions may not be up to par. I know you said give us guidelines as to what they want, but I guarantee youll get guys who once find out about submissions, do some crappy plane as a P80 or B29 and submit it. HTC takes time to do each invididual detail, spec, of the plane. I just cant see this coming to pass any time soon...
But those wouldn't make the cut then. If this went through, I imagine something like 10 - 15 submissions per year that would take a day to weed through.
Even if only 1 or 2 make the cut, that day spent on weeding through them might be worth it.
Hey, its a wish ;)
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Oh man, no positive thoughts?
:cry
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I would think that aircraft and vehicle models are a lot more complicated than other objects. Perhaps terrain objects would be viable?
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whats up with the negative vibes moriarty.....
They would have to check each model thouroughly to make sure it is done how they do it.
I used to be an architect for a while.....
Going through drawings / models is a pain in the arse and only upsets you.
why ....
Because you waste a day finding the mistakes and you waste a day fixing them. Then you waste a day doing what should have been done the first time. Doing it the way it should have been done from the begining.
This is all proportional to how big of a project it is and only compounds with its complexity. I've spent months fixing what only took weeks to get wrong.
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Just have a peer review thread....let the informed players decide what should be sent in.
Its quite simple to get a object from AC3D into the game once you learn the process.
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I've spent months fixing what only took weeks to get wrong.
Lol, this is so quotable.
:D
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Just have a peer review thread....let the informed players decide what should be sent in.
Its quite simple to get a object from AC3D into the game once you learn the process.
My point exactly. The submission process could be filtered out, and there could be a cap on how many submissions make it, therefore reducing sorting workload.
This idea boosts community participation.
I think it would be vastly interesting to see a model 'tournament' at the end of a lets say couple of months. There could even be a sort of list of desirable models, and designers pick which one they attempt.
The argument for a fix taking months is void; those that need fixing just bounce. An experienced 3d modeler can tell a model is bad within the first couple of minutes of looking at it, I'm sure.
Just a wish remember!
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I would think that aircraft and vehicle models are a lot more complicated than other objects. Perhaps terrain objects would be viable?
Lets say, the HTC accept models for the review only from specified persons/CM's. These are filtering all inbound models from the community.
When 3D model with all external shapes (intact & damaged) plus necessary LOD's, UV-maps and animations is approved by these CM's, then and only then HTC will take just a look to it.
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Sounds a lot like the CM led Terrain Team......
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Yes we can!
:joystick:
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I thought this would be nice. A lot of us have IT experience and participate in one way or another.
HTC could tap into that resource by publishing a specification of what a 3D model should satisfy in order to be considered for the game.
Now, they could hold competitions on submissions and choose models that make it into the game based on usability / how well the model was made.
Thoughts?
You you purchase Multigen we can talk.
HiTech
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You you purchase Multigen we can talk.
HiTech
just curious HT whats Multigen??? :confused:
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just curious HT whats Multigen??? :confused:
Maybe the program they use to model the planes...I dunno...just a quick google search.
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Maybe the program they use to model the planes...I dunno...just a quick google search.
I was thinking the same thing.
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You you purchase Multigen we can talk.
HiTech
You serious....?
I am....
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You serious....?
I am....
:O :O :O :O :O does he really mean it?? i hope so :x
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You you purchase Multigen we can talk.
HiTech
What formats the Multigen can import? What are the requirements for the AH 3D import?
I just ask, because the people are using even the AC3D for the airplane modeling for the another simulations.
I bet the Multigen allows you to manage whole lot more plane specific data, than just a 3D object related area.
(edit)
This is my imaginary work flow right top of my head :):
1.Create a pretty darn accurate 3D model from the target plane.
2.From given 3D model measure:
- A wetted area, possible a part specific
- A x,y,z projected areas in multiple conditions(flaps & ords)
- A fuselage, wing, tail, rudder areas & AC positions
- A aspect rations
- A tail volumes
- A NP location with different flaps positions (P38)
- A effective control surface areas with min/max angels and effective AC's locations
- A thrust & drag(gear&flaps up/down) line heights vs CG and/or NP heights
- A dihedral angles
- A ord. Caused CG shifts & drags line heights
- A prop disk area and even individual blade area
- And so on (?)
3. Create the baseline FM
- Test versus RL data & AH plane set and tinker the settings. Loop * 1000...
5. Create the multiple damage model FM's
- Test versus RL data & AH planes and tinker the settings. Loop * 1000...
6. Create the in-game 3D models (int. & ext.), textures, animations & LOD's
- Test versus the customer baseline HW and tinker the 3D models/LOD settings. Loop * 1000...
7. Ta-Daa! in www.hitechcreations.com
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You you purchase Multigen we can talk.
HiTech
A quick search indicated multigen uses a native format called openflight.
This format is supported as an export plugin to openscenegraph, an open source project.
:pray thoughts?
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It sounds expensive. :bolt:
semp
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Oh well..
:cheers:
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Lets say, the HTC accept models for the review only from specified persons/CM's. These are filtering all inbound models from the community.
When 3D model with all external shapes (intact & damaged) plus necessary LOD's, UV-maps and animations is approved by these CM's, then and only then HTC will take just a look to it.
Sounds reasonable.. Is Multigen a prerequisite for that as well?
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This is probably what you need to get started. :aok http://www.presagis.com/products/content_creation/creator/ (http://www.presagis.com/products/content_creation/creator/)
(http://www.presagis.com/images/kb/content_creation/creator/creatorbroch1_02.jpg)
And of course in one of the future updates the airfield town's will be getting a church upgrade! :lol
(http://www.presagis.com/images/kb/content_creation/creator_buildings_1/church1_logooverlay_01.jpg)
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This is probably what you need to get started. :aok http://www.presagis.com/products/content_creation/creator/ (http://www.presagis.com/products/content_creation/creator/)
And of course in one of the future updates the airfield town's will be getting a church upgrade! :lol
The Blender 3D would be also up to the task. We just need the target format and specifications for the exported data.
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Dont get me wrong. If It means getting the JU87g introduced sooner I am all for it :devil
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The Blender 3D would be also up to the task. We just need the target format and specifications for the exported data.
Blender 3D looks like the open source tool of choice. The target format is most probably open flight (hitech, correct me if I'm wrong) and 3d blender does export into that format.
Specifications? Hitech can we talk now? :headscratch:
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Anyone else notice hitech didn't say anything about formats, or even allowing this... his exact words were :
You you purchase Multigen we can talk.
So, did anyone purchase Multigen?
It doesn't matter what may or may not work, Multigen is what hitech wants.
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If I knew the rules of the game I would consider buying it depending on the cost.
I wont, however, go buy a program and be told, "Just kidding."
Ya know?
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Anyone else notice hitech didn't say anything about formats, or even allowing this... his exact words were :
So, did anyone purchase Multigen?
It doesn't matter what may or may not work, Multigen is what hitech wants.
Multigen is a tool that for most part companies dealing with 3d modeling can afford. Individuals less likely so. Most individuals use open source software, and the question is whether those two can be compatible.
From what I researched Multigen uses a format that is compatible called openflight. Now the question is would models in this format submitted by the community that meet the quality criteria be considered for a model competition.
Maybe just start with GV models for instance? See how that rolls.
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or terrain objects...> I'd have to imagine doing planes is much bigger project than most would realize and be willing to do. Starting a process small and seeing if it works up sounds a bit more viable.
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Here you go guys. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,7234.msg95650.html#msg95650) This was from 2001, so I have a feeling it will knock the wind out of some of you. It did for me back then, but be sure to let us know who is getting on board. ;)
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I know this is not a game model. Pretty impressive details this mrys named guy can make
http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=110320
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A little under one million faces......
:O
The gunsight alone took as many faces as a complete aircraft would normally use in Aces High. Great work....I would die and go to heaven if we could ever have something like that in a game.
Strip
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(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/images/X-wingFWD.png)
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/images/X-wingAFT.png)
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/images/X-wingDorsal.png)
I just feel like showing off now. :D
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Okay....its not even in attack mode, whats up with that!
:D
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No, he clicked "Fighter" in the hangar... :bolt:
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I would buy Multigen only if I got hired at $240k a year... its been a few years since I have seen jobs posted but I remember Fort Rucker and NASA both use this software also.
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Well my guess, after reading through the site and making some comparisons to software packages I've dealt with in the past, is it's going to be between $10K and $15K per seat depending on what module's Hitech would require us to buy.
But it's fun to dream, :eek:
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You did not think he was going to recommend something viable did you?
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You did not think he was going to recommend something viable did you?
Would weed out the weak I guess lol....
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But but but.. what about the open source alternatives we mentioned? :old:
I mean, what matters is the resulting format and its result, not what you made it with?
Ofcourse, what you made it with can affect the quality of the result, but that would have to be seen.
More love for the little guys :D
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You did not think he was going to recommend something viable did you?
You got it exactly ass-backwards. Consider that your convenience is not the primary criteria here. HiTech isn't soliciting help and has limited time so he wants you to use and be familiar with the program he already knows. Most developers wouldn't even talk to you.
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It's not about my convenience as I wasn't going to spend my time doing it. My impression is HT didn't really want to deal with the whole can of worms given how involved something like creating a new plane from scratch was thus threw out the expensive thus unobtainable goal of Multigen. I can't say I blame him as he would be wasting dozens of hours babysitting those who tried. That's why I hijacked in the direction of letting guys create game objects that once approved could be added to the library of acceptable map making objects. It's a much more obtainable goal that would still benefit the company and the community.
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You got it exactly ass-backwards. Consider that your convenience is not the primary criteria here. HiTech isn't soliciting help and has limited time so he wants you to use and be familiar with the program he already knows. Most developers wouldn't even talk to you.
No he was right on the money :lol
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Thanks Hitech! Great new leads on job openings! :D
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You did not think he was going to recommend something viable did you?
It is what it is, and it is what our structure requires.
HiTech
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No problem at all.. Are you receptive to objects that could be used in the online arenas as well? I've seen some great work over the years and it would be most welcome to have some variety in the online maps. It's a pity to see so much hard work relegated to offline maps only. You guys made some nice strides with the new terrain and water why not enable the community to add more depth? It seems like a efficient way to add stuff.
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Well it seems perfectly viable, just not practical for me (or most of us I'm guessing) at this time.
But I sure will ask Hitech and Pyro about it at the CON next week! :)
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Static objects can created in AC3d and then converted with the object editor.
Such as buildings, static planes, static vehicles, trees, shrubs, and so on.
Of course there are guide lines for creating these things and using them, or submitting them as well.
:salute
midi
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No problem at all.. Are you receptive to objects that could be used in the online arenas as well? I've seen some great work over the years and it would be most welcome to have some variety in the online maps. It's a pity to see so much hard work relegated to offline maps only. You guys made some nice strides with the new terrain and water why not enable the community to add more depth? It seems like a efficient way to add stuff.
They are in many online maps, just not main arena maps. The reason they are not there, it becomes impossible to maintain the main arena terrains with user objects.
HiTech
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Could you explain in what respects? Is it footprint size? limitations in object counts? What are the limiting factors? I'm sure this would make a great topic at the con and probably far easier to explain in person. The reason I'm asking is just like skins, this looks like a way where the community can truly help you.
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While we're on the topic of HT game design, does anyone know what (just out of curiosity) language AH is coaded in? C? I've been messing about with Python and got to wondering if a rudimentary flight game could be made.
[/hijack]
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While we're on the topic of HT game design, does anyone know what (just out of curiosity) language AH is coaded in? C? I've been messing about with Python and got to wondering if a rudimentary flight game could be made.
[/hijack]
C++ and no don't think so, python is mostly for scripts I believe :headscratch:
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Could you explain in what respects? Is it footprint size? limitations in object counts? What are the limiting factors? I'm sure this would make a great topic at the con and probably far easier to explain in person. The reason I'm asking is just like skins, this looks like a way where the community can truly help you.
No I can not, but I can give you a few examples.
We will be changing the way the strat system works soon. To do so we will be moving and replacing factories and possible other objects. With custom objects this becomes a much larger volume of work.
We spend a fair amount of time making sure main arena terrains work. With custom objects it because a very large effort to check things, which would now include things like frame rates, buildings that can be hidden in along with many more.
The things you can change is some texture items.
HiTech
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I've been messing about with Python and got to wondering if a rudimentary flight game could be made.
[/hijack]
I'm there and doing exactly that so, my amateur answer is 'Maybe' :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWsKYtdNMWs
[/hijack]
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Betcha I can make a simple flight game in Python, I'll even post it to the boards.
The catch? It will be 2D and have absolutely no FM, just arrow key controls. :lol
I have found Python very useful though, I hope it is a good stepping stone into C++ or C.
edit: Awesome Exjazz! What are you using for the GUI? wxpython, pygame? pyGTK? I've just been messing with menus in Tkinter so far and drawing lines/sprites in pygame.
I guess you could use blender to make the 3d models for the 'sim'.
hijack.quit()
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Nice!!
Ok, so how about the original topic then :D maybe start with a simple GV competition :aok
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I'm guessing M$ Paint is not going to help me join the "new stuff" R&D team, eh? :D
I suggested just this thing not all that long ago... glad to see the ball rolling a positive direction. :)
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I'm guessing M$ Paint is not going to help me join the "new stuff" R&D team, eh? :D
I suggested just this thing not all that long ago... glad to see the ball rolling a positive direction. :)
You did? Lets roll the ball together then. Help me out! Hitech, listen to us!!!
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BTW....does anyone know how to use multigen? :headscratch:
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BTW....does anyone know how to use multigen? :headscratch:
I have heard Waffle and Superfly have some working knowledge of the software. :)
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I have heard Waffle and Superfly have some working knowledge of the software. :)
Rank amateurs at best....
:rolleyes:
:D JK...they are definitely good at their craft!
<S>
Strip
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I wonder if waffle could give us a comment on the switch from 3dmax to multigent? :)
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I wonder if waffle could give us a comment on the switch from 3dmax to multigent? :)
They used 3dstudio max before?
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They used 3dstudio max before?
No clue about HTC but I thought Waffle had experience with it.
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If we could use max or solid works then I could donate my copy to sombody. But I'm not forking out the money to buy multigen. Anyone know if Max or SW file types could be forwarded to another with mutigen and used?
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Multigen is good for creating a very efficient 3d model. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles that 3dsmax has, but multigen is getting better by adding features that are commonly used in 3dsmax, ie expanded materials for normal mapping, specularity, bump, ect.... They just added support for shaders a few versions ago.
Most model I've seen built with 3ds max aren't very "clean"...i guess that would be the appropriate word. I guess that has more to do with the modeler than the software, but I've found it's far more easier to built an optimized low poly mesh in multigen than with 3ds max. There's a learning curve for the software, and sometimes when I use 3ds max, it's like starting all over again. Even things like rotating your eye point in 3ds max is a pain because of the muscle memory from using multigen so much. I'll be hitting the wrong keys and mashing the mouse around trying to get the model to rotate in 3dsmax.
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I guess that it means no? I was saying that if somebody were a proficeint modeler I would send them my copy of max or solidworks. They could do the modeling and forward the model to HTC for use in the game. My biggest question is would that work for HTC/AH purposes?
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The question should be whether this would work for some sort of model competition we were describing.
:airplane:
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No I can not, but I can give you a few examples.
We will be changing the way the strat system works soon. To do so we will be moving and replacing factories and possible other objects. With custom objects this becomes a much larger volume of work.
We spend a fair amount of time making sure main arena terrains work. With custom objects it because a very large effort to check things, which would now include things like frame rates, buildings that can be hidden in along with many more.
The things you can change is some texture items.
HiTech
:pray
(http://downloads.hitechcreations.com/images/combattour/ctcity6.jpg)
(http://downloads.hitechcreations.com/images/combattour/ctcity5.jpg)
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can you say incendiary bombs
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:pray
(http://downloads.hitechcreations.com/images/combattour/ctcity6.jpg)
(http://downloads.hitechcreations.com/images/combattour/ctcity5.jpg)
:O :aok
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Buh-bye frame rates.
Imagine if that city was fully manned by AAA....
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That looks so awesome fencer!
I would love to have bigger towns then what we currently have. Currently taking down the town is to easy.
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Been there done that and saw the frame rates tank, you would lose half the player base for that map.
Strip
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:pray
(http://downloads.hitechcreations.com/images/combattour/ctcity6.jpg)
(http://downloads.hitechcreations.com/images/combattour/ctcity5.jpg)
:O :O :O :rock awesome!
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Check the front page archives for November 2006 for the source of those pictures. They had that almost 3 years ago.
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That is fairly close how our change in strat system will look fencer.
I see you found our city tiles.
HiTech
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Great!
Not sure what you mean about city tiles, I kept the jpgs you posted back in November of 2006 on my work computer (packrat) when you did a CT preview. Then I looked at the date on them today at lunch and went back and found the original post on your archives of your main page @ http://www2.hitechcreations.com/news/2006/nov2006.html did the ole cut and paste for the images then a little :pray and got a message from :old: which has now caused some :banana: inspiring me to go do some :airplane: .
I been waiting for things like that marshalling yard and refinery ever since I saw them! :cheers:
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New strat sounds and looks great, then! Also thanks for the comments Waffle.
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Found? So that presupposes that they are hid in the game some where? Kind of like the sharks with Laser beams?
<S>
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:pray
(http://downloads.hitechcreations.com/images/combattour/ctcity6.jpg)
(http://downloads.hitechcreations.com/images/combattour/ctcity5.jpg)
Those must be the buildings which can be hidden in along with other things, that he found.
:noid
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I didn't find anything! Those are pics from their own website back in November of 2006. And if I did find something I sure as heck would not post it.