Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: oakranger on July 07, 2010, 12:12:00 PM
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There are a few of people who want to perk the spit XVI. However, as some believe, this spit dose not have any weakness. I tried to counter what the spit XVI is doing and in some cases i found it to my advantage. So, for those who are not aware, here is helpful information from Soda's Aircraft Evaluation Pages.
Fighting the Spitfire Mk XVI
Be careful, it doesn’t take a fantastic pilot to make a Spitfire Mk XVI dangerous. It has such quick hitting power and can adjust so quickly to defensive maneuvers that it can be a real handful.
Always assume Spitfires you see are Mk XVI’s unless you know better. If you get over-aggressive and in close with a Mk XVI you can quickly run into real trouble and not be able to escape. Pick your spot carefully and make your attacks count. Given the balance in the Spitfire Mk XVI several other aircraft will have either a speed or turn-rate/radius advantage if the speeds get slow. Spitfires are typically don’t take damage very well, they tend to get holed fuel tanks and lose radiators to even quick snapshots so don’t be afraid to spray a little to try and inflict damage. A damaged Spitfire tends to have very little time before the fuel runs out or the engine overheats which will force the Mk XVI pilot to be very aggressive knowing his time is running out. Give yourself some extra leeway to escape if things turn against you.
Getting jumped by a Spitfire Mk XVI is a bad situation so try and avoid the initial attacks with some hard maneuvers. If you have an opportunity to get in a snapshot, do so, as Spitfires tend to overshoot if they are not carefully being managed well (the huge energy building potential and tendency to attack with lots of alt/speed causes this). Many aircraft in the late war arena are still going to have an overall speed advantage if they can build a little time to extend from the Spitfire Mk XVI although the margin might be a bit slim. In general I try and point out on most aircraft a specific weakness that can be exploited but in the case of the Spitfire Mk XVI there isn’t any one thing specific. It’ll come down to pilot skill and appropriate selection/execution of maneuvers that suit your aircraft. The margins are likely to be small and it’ll be a tough fight
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There are a few of people who want to perk the spit XVI. However, as some believe, this spit dose not have any weakness.
The spit16's primary weakness is that it is usually being piloted by a scrub noob.
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Perks should be switched for 16 and 14. It's tough trying to get kills in a 14, 16, not so much.
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The spit16's primary weakness is that it is usually being piloted by a scrub noob.
:(
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Perks should be switched for 16 and 14. It's tough trying to get kills in a 14, 16, not so much.
The 14 is faster, climbs better, and out accelerates the 16.
Heck, a Spit 14 is only @ 8kias slower (otd) than a 109K, similar acceleration, out turns it and can climb with it.
Methinks you don't fly the Spit 14 that much.
It is a beast down low and an absolute monster high alt.
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The 14 is faster, climbs better, and out accelerates the 16.
Heck, a Spit 14 is only @ 8kias slower (otd) than a 109K, similar acceleration, out turns it and can climb with it.
Methinks you don't fly the Spit 14 that much.
It is a beast down low and an absolute monster high alt.
Absolutely not. The 14 is far from being perkworthy at all.
Unlike the K-4, it's a unstable gunplatform, it's fragile as any Spit, it has serious rolling deficiencies at high speeds, and it has some ugly stall characteristics
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Absolutely not. The 14 is far from being perkworthy at all.
Unlike the K-4, it's a unstable gunplatform, it's fragile as any Spit, it has serious rolling deficiencies at high speeds, and it has some ugly stall characteristics
Fly it like a 109k that can turn better.
Most just don't have a clue how to fly it effectively.
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The spit 16's biggest weakness is the slow speed turn rate.
The scrub noob pilots that fly it just can't handle more than 2/3 sustained turns. Before they run out of E and start stalling.
I will take a spit 8/9 over it all the time. The 16 is comparable to a Brewster in that you don't want it milling around in a furball but get it strictly 1 vs 1 and you can exploit its weaknesses fairly easily. This is down to the average persons bad SA rather than crying for it to be perked.
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Fly it like a 109k that can turn better.
Most just don't have a clue how to fly it effectively.
The deficiencies still stand, and that's what it makes not worth it's perks.
There's a reason why it is the least used and least successfull perk plane, despite the very low perk price. It's a difficult plane to fly, but has little decisive edge in any category over even many non perk planes. Just do a direct comparison between the 16 and 14.
Not more perk worthy than a 109K (the fastest prop plane in game from 8-24k btw.)
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I don't know, how bout perking everything that fly's fast and climbs well while we're at it. Perk the LA7, K4, 190D,Tiff,P47m,Spit 8,9,14,16...
Hell while we're at perk the all the good turny birds to.
Lets just perk everything!
Seriously, spits are so yummy, and they fold up so well with just a couple hits, they're my favorite meal.
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Well i dont know Adolf Galland wanted A Staffelle of Spitfire's HHHMMMMM :uhoh :uhoh :uhoh :uhoh
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The spit16's primary weakness is that it is usually being piloted by a scrub noob.
Yup
Spit14 means easy kill in my mind.
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Yup
Spit14 means easy kill in my mind.
Me too, I usually don't have any problems at all killing them in the K4. the 16s are tougher usually, but still not that awfully tough most of the time, like grizz said, generally piloted by noobs.
That doesn't erase my hatred of them however. I hate them so...
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Well i dont know Adolf Galland wanted A Staffelle of Spitfire's HHHMMMMM :uhoh :uhoh :uhoh :uhoh
That's not entirely true, the following is a quote from his book "The First and The Last".
He asked what were the requirements for our squadrons. Mölders asked for a series of ME-109s with more powerful engines. The request was granted. "And You?" Göring turned to me. I did not hesitate long. "I should like an outfit of Spitfires for my squadron." After I blurted this out, I received rather a shock. It was not really meant that way. Of course fundamentally I preferred our ME-109 to the Spitfire. But I was unbelievably vexed at the lack of understanding and the stubbornness with which the command gave us orders we could not execute - or only incompletely - as a result of many shortcomings for which we were not to blame. Such brazen faced impudence made even Göring speechless. He stamped off, growling as he went.
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Spit16's are the bugs of the sky. They annoy the crap out of you but with one slap of your hand they will die...
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The spit16's primary weakness is that it is usually being piloted by a scrub noob.
Bwahahaha, this is so true. :aok
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If only HTC created for us a clipped version of the Spitfire Mk. XIV... Also a clipped 1943 Spitfire Mk. Vc? :noid
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I will take a spit 8/9 over it all the time.
Amen Bruv. The 8 is my first AH love...
The spit16's primary weakness is that it is usually being piloted by a scrub noob.
I never assume this Grizz. I assume every plane is piloted by Grizz or Toney Joey himself. That way I don't get lazy. I found Kappa in 16 just two days ago. Get my point?
:salute
Way
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A spixteen is, of the non perked planes, a monstrosity. It can out run, out turn and just plane out maneuver anything that it cant out climb. The thing is a weapon in the hands of anyone with half a clue. If your slapping them out of the sky with a K-4 your finding the ones flown by retards. The only thing a K does better than a spixteen is run and the climb chart looks like a DNA string. It can climb away from a LALA and will out turn one full flaps. It out climbs, out turns (no flaps) and out accelerates a KI-84, beats the crap out of a NIKI in everything but a flat turn, 1D hog can out run it but is meat in a climb fight or anything but a flap turn contest, all a D-pony can do is run away, it out climbs, out runs, out turns, and out accelerates a 38J. Dora? Same as the Pony, it can run away. Don't even bother with a Jug. Yeah, I know, the situation counts for a lot and disparity of pilot skill is always a factor (in anything) but if your saying the spixteen is anything but an evil beast your deluding yourself. And yes, I hate them too.
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:aok
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Perks should be switched for 16 and 14. It's tough trying to get kills in a 14, 16, not so much.
Ever run into/against a spit 14 that's been cruising at +20k? I know it's rarer than dirt at that altitude in the MA, but lord help you if you do.
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Amen Bruv. The 8 is my first AH love...
I never assume this Grizz. I assume every plane is piloted by Grizz or Toney Joey himself. That way I don't get lazy. I found Kappa in 16 just two days ago. Get my point?
:salute
Way
Did I tell ya about the stick stiring muppet I nailed in his N1Ki after chasing him to the deck last week?
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Did I tell ya about the stick stiring muppet I nailed in his N1Ki after chasing him to the deck last week?
Lies, muppets don't fly N1K2-J's.
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Perk the Brewster! ;)
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A spixteen is, of the non perked planes, a monstrosity. It can out run, out turn and just plane out maneuver anything that it cant out climb. The thing is a weapon in the hands of anyone with half a clue. If your slapping them out of the sky with a K-4 your finding the ones flown by retards. The only thing a K does better than a spixteen is run and the climb chart looks like a DNA string. It can climb away from a LALA and will out turn one full flaps. It out climbs, out turns (no flaps) and out accelerates a KI-84, beats the crap out of a NIKI in everything but a flat turn, 1D hog can out run it but is meat in a climb fight or anything but a flap turn contest, all a D-pony can do is run away, it out climbs, out runs, out turns, and out accelerates a 38J. Dora? Same as the Pony, it can run away. Don't even bother with a Jug. Yeah, I know, the situation counts for a lot and disparity of pilot skill is always a factor (in anything) but if your saying the spixteen is anything but an evil beast your deluding yourself. And yes, I hate them too.
I out ran a few Spit XVI in a P47D-25. All you need to do manage you E right.
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A Spixteen is what it is. Fight your fight and not his and you'll be alright most of the time.
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A Spixteen is what it is. Fight your fight and not his and you'll be alright most of the time.
Quoted for truth. :aok
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Did I tell ya about the stick stiring muppet I nailed in his N1Ki after chasing him to the deck last week?
Wow, you must be good! :O
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A spixteen is, of the non perked planes, a monstrosity. It can out run, out turn and just plane out maneuver anything that it cant out climb. The thing is a weapon in the hands of anyone with half a clue. If your slapping them out of the sky with a K-4 your finding the ones flown by retards. The only thing a K does better than a spixteen is run and the climb chart looks like a DNA string. It can climb away from a LALA and will out turn one full flaps. It out climbs, out turns (no flaps) and out accelerates a KI-84, beats the crap out of a NIKI in everything but a flat turn, 1D hog can out run it but is meat in a climb fight or anything but a flap turn contest, all a D-pony can do is run away, it out climbs, out runs, out turns, and out accelerates a 38J. Dora? Same as the Pony, it can run away. Don't even bother with a Jug. Yeah, I know, the situation counts for a lot and disparity of pilot skill is always a factor (in anything) but if your saying the spixteen is anything but an evil beast your deluding yourself. And yes, I hate them too.
Oh I'm not deluding myself at all, that is why I hate them. I'm just saying that the vast majority of the guys that you run into in 16s are the ones with only half a clue. Usually you get guys trying to flat turn you or just follow you around a furball till they catch you tied up. I usually use throttle work and reversals to get a quick crossing shot which usually takes off a wing. If I have the room I work the rolling scissors, which the Kurfurst is absolutely wonderful at. I don't really turn with them ever. It's too dangerous.
Usually, you can tell pretty quickly if the guy you're fighting is any good or not, and that will dictate how you handle the fight. I respect them, yeah, in some hands, but I don't fear them anymore.
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However, as some believe, this spit dose not have any weakness. I tried to counter what the spit XVI is doing and in some cases i found it to my advantage.
Huh? You found a weakness in a plane that you say has no weakness? :headscratch:
The spit16's primary weakness is that it is usually being piloted by a scrub noob.
Or me.
The spit 16's biggest weakness is the slow speed turn rate.
That totally depends on the match-up. It just might be it's biggest advantage but you already knew that. Why did you even say that?
The reality is the XVI does everything very very well but is not the best at anything and most planes can find at least one advantage to try to exploit. Of course a favorably outnumbered situation goes a long way to beating one and they do seem to draw enemy hoards like undefended bases. That's part of the reason I like flying them.
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It all depends who is in it. If its kappa or BiPolar, and your not in a spit 16, your as good as dead. That being said, thats 2 players out to thousands, so the rest, well the majority will just yank that stick back as hard as they can until it has no e and no place to go.
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If its kappa or BiPolar, and your not in a spit 16, your as good as dead.
Hmmm... had an extended fight against kappa last weekend. I was in an F6F-5. I did lose but it was an epic fight.
In fact, in the end he got a hit that killed my engine. Then as I was attempting to ditch he finished me off. I was hoping he'd let me ditch after the fight we had as a show of respect. Regardless of that I saluted him then and will agian.
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I watched that one from my perch. Went on for quite a spell.
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Hmmm... had an extended fight against kappa last weekend. I was in an F6F-5. I did lose but it was an epic fight.
In fact, in the end he got a hit that killed my engine. Then as I was attempting to ditch he finished me off. I was hoping he'd let me ditch after the fight we had as a show of respect. Regardless of that I saluted him then and will agian.
He was probably hoping you'd auger/bail to the tower as a show of respect, but to no avail. ;)
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I watched that one from my perch. Went on for quite a spell.
Were you in the LA? I did adjust slighly each time it appeared to be approaching. I commented afterward that I thought the LA would interfere but didn't. I was grateful that we were able to continue without inteference.
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Hmmm... had an extended fight against kappa last weekend. I was in an F6F-5. I did lose but it was an epic fight.
In fact, in the end he got a hit that killed my engine. Then as I was attempting to ditch he finished me off. I was hoping he'd let me ditch after the fight we had as a show of respect. Regardless of that I saluted him then and will agian.
I enjoy fighting them, always fun but here... try it with a k4...
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Were you in the LA? I did adjust slighly each time it appeared to be approaching. I commented afterward that I thought the LA would interfere but didn't. I was grateful that we were able to continue without inteference.
That was me, staying out till something that needed killing wandered by.
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If only HTC created for us a clipped version of the Spitfire Mk. XIV... Also a clipped 1943 Spitfire Mk. Vc? :noid
You can find lots of clipped Vbs, but Vc's are a bit tougher to find. Clipped XIV's were postwar
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The spit 16's biggest weakness is the slow speed turn rate.
The scrub noob pilots that fly it just can't handle more than 2/3 sustained turns. Before they run out of E and start stalling.
I will take a spit 8/9 over it all the time. The 16 is comparable to a Brewster in that you don't want it milling around in a furball but get it strictly 1 vs 1 and you can exploit its weaknesses fairly easily. This is down to the average persons bad SA rather than crying for it to be perked.
Supposing you don't want to learn the skils to defeat it. Isn't it just much easier to moan about it on here and try and get it perked ? :D
TBH I dont fly it anymore except with the bombs as the 9 and 8 are better and the 14 is miles more fun. The 9 seems to be the best in a one on one and the 8 is more stable. I would only go back to the 16 if my rudder pedals broke.
I wish we had a later war 9 with a bit more power which I guess would be identical to an unclipped 16. Imagine the whingeing :uhoh :D
I should think it would be easy enough to model.
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You can find lots of clipped Vbs, but Vc's are a bit tougher to find. Clipped XIV's were postwar
Mk XII is needed.... :D
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Looking at the Stats there are about 12 unperked planes commonly flown as fighters with better K/D's than the 16 including the Nik, La7 and KI84. All this stuff about perking it is just people over estimating themselves again isn't it and wanting to blame something for their lack of performance :frown:
I would say to the whingers someone must be killing the Noobs in their 16's its just not you ;)
If you respect the plane not the pilot the one I fear most of the unperked is the Nikki becase of all that cannon to spray and or HO with even if the pilot is a rubbish shot. Its the first plane I landed 4 kills in and I hadn't run out of ammo.
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spit16s eh!? They pretty much always go for the Head On. :noid
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spit16s eh!? They pretty much always go for the Head On. :noid
And just about 95% of those who fly in the MAs will HO- regardless of the situation. There are people here on the forums who claim they never HO, yet I get HOed by them on a regular basis. Never expect a fair fight in the MAs.
And with that said, whenever I come across a Spit 16, I never engage unless he is low on E. I fly the P38 a lot, so it may be a different fight if youre flying a Spit 8 or 9. Otherwise youre fate is sealed if you fight it on his terms. If I see a Spit 16 with more E than myself, I will seek a way to gain some separation first before engaging. When engaged, I will try to stall out the Spit 16 as best I can so that I can flop over and shoot it. Make him fight his engine torque. With his nose high and low on airspeed, the engine torque will pull the Spit 16 to the left and as such, if the pilot fights it too much, he will careen out of control. When the plane stalls, I then swoop in for the kill.
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My *ahem* 2 cents:
Weaknesses: The Spit 16 does have two basic weaknesses IMO though the latter is really a matter of skill. Primary weakness: Toughness. Even though a zeke catches fire easier, when I'm low on ammo I target Spits. Those dainty wings are all too happy to pop off- and oh it is beautiful. Secondary weakness: Short clip. While many pilots can get several kills with Spits the clip IS a little on the scanty side. The desire to line up a "good" shot only lengthens the amount of time exposed to other enemies in the area. Combined with its lack of toughness a Spit is especially vulnerable when "sealing the deal."
Opinion: The 16 is indeed "easy mode" in terms of maneuverability- it is an amazing point and click machine that has a major edge over virtually every aircraft in the game (speed, turn, climb, roll). It seems to do everything very well short of running down the speed demons. The problem with all Spits is that you are always one ping away from dead meaning you can't sacrifice even the smallest snapshot without seeing your cartoon pilot life flash before your eyes...and as we all know, in the MA :cry happens. So while the 16 may be "easy mode" in terms of getting shots, it is "insane mode" when it comes to surviving them and requires a superior level of SA to actually land kills. It does seem that despite their wide use, 16s land proportionally fewer kills then other LW rides. You can create shots with virtually any fighter in the game but after pilot SA, aircraft survivability is what makes or breaks a k/d ratio. (And yes, in general it seems the average 16 driver is below par.)
Relative to the 14: The 14 may be better in terms of climb and speed but the 16 has big advantages in the areas of stability, turn and roll. Since I consider speed the single most important factor for fighters (allowing engagement at the time/place of your choosing) it is hard for me to argue against placing a lower perk value on the 14 relative to the 16 even if it is an inferior furballer. Both aircraft are beasts with the 14 requiring more time to master. Given the relative parity of these two aircraft in the hands of the average pilot it seems logical to me to either attach a very modest perk cost to the 16. (IE 1-2 points) Perhaps better yet, unperk the 14 and have the MA cope with a few lethal K4 drivers switching to the 14.
Tactics: I like American iron and most of my AH kills have come in the 47,F6F and 38 (in that order). With the exception of speed, the Spit16 generally holds the same turn and climb advantages over the entire US planeset minus the Wildcat and Brew. My best advice for dealing with Spits.
1. In virtually any ride it is a bad omen if you fly UNDER a Spit to engage it 1v1. Chances are you will never hold any initiative in the coming engagement unless you are that rare "uber pilot" or the Spit makes a big mistake.
2. Fly with a friend. A good Spit16 driver will probably beat a good 47 driver in a co-E engagement. You cannot simply run away from a Spit every time you see one Co-E. My theory: (With speed being equal) As the number of aircraft in an engagement increases (and the SA level of the average pilot is exceeded) the premium on turn performance you would see in a 1v1 shifts to the benefits of toughness and firepower. Even though it is natural to expect Spits to be dominant in large furballs, US planes seem to hold their own just fine since they can both take a hit and spray lead for 30 seconds or more.
3. In many vs many go with the jink not the break. If you find a Spit trailing your Jug 600 out and he is not closing, yes you may die. :confused: .... but consider jinking instead of turning or attempting to force an overshoot. I think this for a few reasons. A. You present the smallest possible target profile. This is a common Spit mistake, they are pulling away in a climb 1.0 out but send some tracers by their cockpit and they perform a break turn exposing the whole of that fragile wing to your mercy. B. Regardless of whether you make him overshoot you just dumped E that you will not get back any time soon. In a many v many this is bad. The Spit has a VERY effective rudder and much less inertia than typical US rides allowing a smart Spit driver to dump E faster when traveling a straight line. Rarely will a Spit blow by you completely, usually a scissors is in order. The problem here is that the Spit turns better slow and has much better roll performance than US rides at typical slow scissor speeds (90-200kts). Against an F6F this is especially pronounced. C. He has a short clip, even if he manages to kill you chances are if you're doing a proper jink (tracing tiny squares with your flight path seems to work well) he has wasted so much ammo as to make him combat ineffective against your remaining buds. D. You're lining his fragile fighter up for an easy shot any green icon should want. Z. In a hypothetical conga line on the deck consisting of say 6 Jugs alternating with 6 spits spaced 600 apart, the Spits should disappear faster than the Jugs. If said line is heading toward friendly territory you've just dragged several fixated Spits to their doom. :cheers:
4. 345 is a special number. It is approximately the speed of the Spit 16 on the deck. An aircraft that can sustain this speed can withdraw from a Spit horde so long as it doesn't need to accelerate to get there. FOr US rides this means the ability to DIVE for acceleration. Most US aircraft have superior high-speed handling, if a Spit tries to follow a very fast dive, gaining the upper hand is possible. Early recognition is key. If there are 3 co-alt Spitxteens with your Jug it may be time to evaluate your current skill set and withdraw. The whines on 200 will most definitely not reflect that you may be missing part, are outnumbered, bingo fuel or out of ammo, only that you are a coward without honor. This translates roughly into "Come back so we can have an easy kill." Learn to enjoy it. If you want to furball, turn around, if you feel like living it's your 15 bucks.
5. Last and most disturbing scenario. You are low, Spit16 on your 6 and closing at a controlled rate. In a Hellcat the 6 view sucks, thus it is difficult to accept a faster, more agile aircraft on your 6 and OUT of sight than in the Jug. Altitude permitting (800 ft+ for me) you can induce a spin and hope for the overshoot. The spin move will probably get you nailed at least a little bit but there is the chance that hits will be so distributed around your aircraft that you will not suffer catastrophic damage. In the 51,47,F4U,38 you have a fair chance of actually being able to look back at where the bad guy is pointing his guns. This takes a lot of time but after enough looking down the barrel you will see what a proper gun solution looks like in a tail chase. Depending on range and ballistics (IE a N1K 800-1000 out) you actually have good chances with "See and Avoid", actually dodging bullets after firing. This is obviously not a winning technique if the con is overtaking but for a good overshoot you probably want him within your turn radius. (This depends on speed, faster=bigger) Chop throttle FIRST. The con knows something is up when you roll but slowing due to throttle will delay recognition. Then go about roll, pull, flaps etc. Include rudder inputs for increased speed decay. US aircraft are very stable and with proper rudder a light Jug can virtually hang at 80 knots. Getting a shot after the overshoot is often just as hard as forcing one and your options are fewer now. But! the odds are, at least momentarily, better than when he was on your 6.
6. They are all Spit 16s. MkVIII and up I like a 16. Unless you have a magic method for measuring energy states, treat that IX like a XVI and accept the safety margin. There will always be more Spits later.
7. Don't grab a wolf by the ears. If you can help it, don't slow down for a shot on a Spit, regardless of whether you are in a BnZ ride or not. If you nail him great, but everyone misses and when you do it is guaranteed by Murphy that the 16 driver is good enough to get around on you.
8. Know thy enemy. Flying the Spit16 offline and in the MA a little bit vs maneuvering targets gives a good feel of just how careful you should be with them. They are not great long range deflection shooters nor do they have a big clip. Flying the Spits will define where your best odds are in the flight envelope, just please, don't turn into one of THEM. :old:
Obviously, Spit killing is near and dear to my heart or I wouldn't have written this book^^^
Kill'em dead! :salute
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The 14 is faster, climbs better, and out accelerates the 16.
Heck, a Spit 14 is only @ 8kias slower (otd) than a 109K, similar acceleration, out turns it and can climb with it.
Methinks you don't fly the Spit 14 that much.
It is a beast down low and an absolute monster high alt.
Snail covered it well. The 14 is extremely unstable, rolls poorly, and is about as strong and sturdy as a toothpick. The 16 is a Jack of all trades plane that rolls extremely well, climbs almost on par with K4, can dive well, and is an extremely stable gun platform at low speeds. While it does fall apart like the rest of them, I think the 16 is much easier to fly than the 14.
PS: Trying to fit my name in a message is much tougher than lute is ;)
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IMO the 14 is a waste of perks.
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My *ahem* 2 cents:
Weaknesses: The Spit 16 does have two basic weaknesses IMO though the latter is really a matter of skill. Primary weakness: Toughness. Even though a zeke catches fire easier, when I'm low on ammo I target Spits. Those dainty wings are all too happy to pop off- and oh it is beautiful. Secondary weakness: Short clip. While many pilots can get several kills with Spits the clip IS a little on the scanty side. The desire to line up a "good" shot only lengthens the amount of time exposed to other enemies in the area. Combined with its lack of toughness a Spit is especially vulnerable when "sealing the deal."
Opinion: The 16 is indeed "easy mode" in terms of maneuverability- it is an amazing point and click machine that has a major edge over virtually every aircraft in the game (speed, turn, climb, roll). It seems to do everything very well short of running down the speed demons. The problem with all Spits is that you are always one ping away from dead meaning you can't sacrifice even the smallest snapshot without seeing your cartoon pilot life flash before your eyes...and as we all know, in the MA :cry happens. So while the 16 may be "easy mode" in terms of getting shots, it is "insane mode" when it comes to surviving them and requires a superior level of SA to actually land kills. It does seem that despite their wide use, 16s land proportionally fewer kills then other LW rides. You can create shots with virtually any fighter in the game but after pilot SA, aircraft survivability is what makes or breaks a k/d ratio. (And yes, in general it seems the average 16 driver is below par.)
Relative to the 14: The 14 may be better in terms of climb and speed but the 16 has big advantages in the areas of stability, turn and roll. Since I consider speed the single most important factor for fighters (allowing engagement at the time/place of your choosing) it is hard for me to argue against placing a lower perk value on the 14 relative to the 16 even if it is an inferior furballer. Both aircraft are beasts with the 14 requiring more time to master. Given the relative parity of these two aircraft in the hands of the average pilot it seems logical to me to either attach a very modest perk cost to the 16. IE 1-2 points perhaps better yet, unperk the 14 and have the MA cope with all the lethal K4 drivers switching to the 14.
Tactics: I like American iron and most of my AH kills have come in the 47,F6F and 38 (in that order). With the exception of speed, the Spit16 generally holds the same turn and climb advantages over the entire US planeset minus the Wildcat and Brew. My best advice for dealing with Spits.
1. In virtually any ride it is a bad omen if you fly UNDER a Spit to engage it 1v1. Chances are you will never hold any initiative in the coming engagement unless you are that rare "uber pilot" or the Spit makes a big mistake.
2. Fly with a friend. A good Spit16 driver will probably beat a good 47 driver in a co-E engagement. You cannot simply run away from a Spit every time you see one Co-E. My theory: (With speed being equal) As the number of aircraft in an engagement increases (and the SA level of the average pilot is exceeded) the premium on turn performance you would see in a 1v1 shifts to the benefits of toughness and firepower. Even though it is natural to expect Spits to be dominant in large furballs, US planes seem to hold their own just fine since they can both take a hit and spray lead for 30 seconds or more.
3. In many vs many go with the jink not the break. If you find a Spit trailing your Jug 600 out and he is not closing, yes you may die. :confused: .... but consider jinking instead of turning or attempting to force an overshoot. I think this for a few reasons. A. You present the smallest possible target profile. This is a common Spit mistake, they are pulling away in a climb 1.0 out but send some tracers by their cockpit and they perform a break turn exposing the whole of that fragile wing to your mercy. B. Regardless of whether you make him overshoot you just dumped E that you will not get back any time soon. In a many v many this is bad. The Spit has a VERY effective rudder and much less inertia than typical US rides allowing a smart Spit driver to dump E faster when traveling a straight line. Rarely will a Spit blow by you completely, usually a scissors is in order. The problem here is that the Spit turns better slow and has much better roll performance than US rides at typical slow scissor speeds (90-200kts). Against an F6F this is especially pronounced. C. He has a short clip, even if he manages to kill you chances are if you're doing a proper jink (tracing tiny squares with your flight path seems to work well) he has wasted so much ammo as to make him combat ineffective against your remaining buds. D. You're lining his fragile fighter up for an easy shot any green icon should want. Z. In a hypothetical conga line on the deck consisting of say 6 Jugs alternating with 6 spits spaced 600 apart, the Spits should disappear faster than the Jugs. If said line is heading toward friendly territory you've just dragged several fixated Spits to their doom. :cheers:
4. 345 is a special number. It is approximately the speed of the Spit 16 on the deck. An aircraft that can sustain this speed can withdraw from a Spit horde so long as it doesn't need to accelerate to get there. FOr US rides this means the ability to DIVE for acceleration. Most US aircraft have superior high-speed handling, if a Spit tries to follow a very fast dive, gaining the upper hand is possible. Early recognition is key. If there are 3 co-alt Spitxteens with your Jug it may be time to evaluate your current skill set and withdraw. The whines on 200 will most definitely not reflect that you may be missing part, are outnumbered, bingo fuel or out of ammo, only that you are a coward without honor. This translates roughly into "Come back so we can have an easy kill." Learn to enjoy it. If you want to furball, turn around, if you feel like living it's your 15 bucks.
5. Last and most disturbing scenario. You are low, Spit16 on your 6 and closing at a controlled rate. In a Hellcat the 6 view sucks, thus it is difficult to accept a faster, more agile aircraft on your 6 and OUT of sight than in the Jug. Altitude permitting (800 ft+ for me) you can induce a spin and hope for the overshoot. The spin move will probably get you nailed at least a little bit but there is the chance that hits will be so distributed around your aircraft that you will not suffer catastrophic damage. In the 51,47,F4U,38 you have a fair chance of actually being able to look back at where the bad guy is pointing his guns. This takes a lot of time but after enough looking down the barrel you will see what a proper gun solution looks like in a tail chase. Depending on range and ballistics (IE a N1K 800-1000 out) you actually have good chances with "See and Avoid", actually dodging bullets after firing. This is obviously not a winning technique if the con is overtaking but for a good overshoot you probably want him within your turn radius. (This depends on speed, faster=bigger) Chop throttle FIRST. The con knows something is up when you roll but slowing due to throttle will delay recognition. Then go about roll, pull, flaps etc. Include rudder inputs for increased speed decay. US aircraft are very stable and with proper rudder a light Jug can virtually hang at 80 knots. Getting a shot after the overshoot is often just as hard as forcing one and your options are fewer now. But! the odds are, at least momentarily, better than when he was on your 6.
6. They are all Spit 16s. MkVIII and up I like a 16. Unless you have a magic method for measuring energy states, treat that IX like a XVI and accept the safety margin. There will always be more Spits later.
7. Don't grab a wolf by the ears. If you can help it, don't slow down for a shot on a Spit, regardless of whether you are in a BnZ ride or not. If you nail him great, but everyone misses and when you do it is guaranteed by Murphy that the 16 driver is good enough to get around on you.
8. Know thy enemy. Flying the Spit16 offline and in the MA a little bit vs maneuvering targets gives a good feel of just how careful you should be with them. They are not great long range deflection shooters nor do they have a big clip. Flying the Spits will define where your best odds are in the flight envelope, just please, don't turn into one of THEM. :old:
Obviously, Spit killing is near and dear to my heart or I wouldn't have written this book^^^
Kill'em dead! :salute
All in all, I think that was a very good post.
One thing that I see people use frequently however when talking about how best to fight against a particular plane, (and you use it here as well) is to fly with a friend. That is simply not an acm. It's a tactic, yes, but it doesn't really have anything at all to do with how best to fight a plane.
That would be like in a martial arts discussion about techniques, you say "just shoot him." Yeah, it works, but that's not the discussion.
Not trying to pick on you at all here, you've written a good post, that's just something I see people write frequently that always sticks out to me.
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Stay out of the speed ranges all Spitfires dominate at (medium speeds) and things get far easier when fighting a Spitfire outside of their comfort zone. Maneuvers that take advantages of your plane strengths and the enemy plane's weaknesses (i.e. Cloverleaf) help as well.
ack-ack
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IMO the 14 is a waste of perks.
Agree, a total wast. Why is it perk in the first place? Why do we even have it on AH?
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Agree, a total wast. Why is it perk in the first place? Why do we even have it on AH?
Lol woah woah. calm thine horses. The Spitfire XIV is a whole new awesome taste of Spitfire. I'm not fond of it being perked either but it certainly deserves a spot on AHII.
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Agree, a total wast. Why is it perk in the first place? Why do we even have it on AH?
Because they built 957 of them and it was the main air-to-air Spitfire from mid-1944 to the end of the war in Europe.
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XIV is what, 10 perks? Who cares... It's a nice ride, shame I don't fly it more often.
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Fighting the Spitfire Mk XVI... To answer your question bring a Spitfire Mk IX? lol
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It pains me to see MA players fly Spitfire the way they do. :cry She's capable of such great feats of aerial acrobatics, if only they knew.
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Why bring anymore spits. We have seven versions of spirt while we lack IJ, Russian, Italian, and French AC.
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Fighting the Spitfire Mk XVI... To answer your question bring a Spitfire Mk IX? lol
and then bring a spit 8 to kill both :bolt:
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Tricycles with training wheels
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If you know how to use flaps, basically every plane can beat the spit XVI.
38, mossie, A-20, even these big hunks of metal can outturn a spixteen with the use of flaps.
Only if youre in a 1v1 situation though. It's stupid to bleed off energy to pull flaps if theres more than 1 con around.
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If you know how to use flaps, basically every plane can beat the spit XVI.
38, mossie, A-20, even these big hunks of metal can outturn a spixteen with the use of flaps.
Only if youre in a 1v1 situation though. It's stupid to bleed off energy to pull flaps if theres more than 1 con around.
Mossie is a hunk of wood. :P
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Its just another plane, the whole a spit is dangerous by itself is garbage
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If you know how to use flaps, basically every plane can beat the spit XVI.
38, mossie, A-20, even these big hunks of metal can outturn a spixteen with the use of flaps.
Only if youre in a 1v1 situation though. It's stupid to bleed off energy to pull flaps if theres more than 1 con around.
:rofl Umm, No. Only the 38 would have even a chance of outturning the 16 (of the planes you mentioned) because of it's flap deployment at 250. But the fight slows down fast from there, and the spit16 will come around with ease. Just because you outturned 8675309 once in an a20, doesn't mean it's the norm.
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:rofl Umm, No. Only the 38 would have even a chance of outturning the 16 (of the planes you mentioned) because of it's flap deployment at 250. But the fight slows down fast from there, and the spit16 will come around with ease. Just because you outturned 8675309 once in an a20, doesn't mean it's the norm.
QFT.
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Hey, that's just what I do.
And unless the spit uses flaps, which it rarely ever will, All the planes with flaps will outurn the spixteen.
Even the A-20 and the mosquito.
It's better not to get into a turning fight with them, but If you absolutely, positively, have to, then these planes will do it if you use flaps.
I use spit VIII's and IX's alot though so I usually dont have to deal with a turning problem.
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Snail covered it well. The 14 is extremely unstable, rolls poorly, and is about as strong and sturdy as a toothpick. The 16 is a Jack of all trades plane that rolls extremely well, climbs almost on par with K4, can dive well, and is an extremely stable gun platform at low speeds. While it does fall apart like the rest of them, I think the 16 is much easier to fly than the 14.
PS: Trying to fit my name in a message is much tougher than lute is ;)
I agree Joey, the stability of the mark 14 is terrible from a gunnery and stalls point of view. The mark 16 is alot better but none surpass the MkV
PS: no kidding
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If you know how to use flaps, basically every plane can beat the spit XVI.
38, mossie, A-20, even these big hunks of metal can outturn a spixteen with the use of flaps.
Only if youre in a 1v1 situation though. It's stupid to bleed off energy to pull flaps if theres more than 1 con around.
I think you are over exaggerating their performance with flaps down. The Spit 16 will outturn all of those aircraft in both directions. Only a noob in a Spit 16 cant outturn a A20, P38, or Mossie. If you are in the P38 or Mossie, you will want to stall out the Spit 16 first and roll over for the kill. Never fight the Spit 16 on his own terms, and that is turn fighting.
The Mossie, however, can outturn (full flaps in the horizontal) all of those twin engined aircraft except for, perhaps, the Bf110. I know that a Mossie can outturn an LA7 with 25% fuel and reduced ammo.
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A-20 will eat a 16 in a stall fight
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I think you are over exaggerating their performance with flaps down. The Spit 16 will outturn all of those aircraft in both directions. Only a noob in a Spit 16 cant outturn a A20, P38, or Mossie. If you are in the P38 or Mossie, you will want to stall out the Spit 16 first and roll over for the kill. Never fight the Spit 16 on his own terms, and that is turn fighting.
He's not exaggerating, rather more of a generalization devoid of any specifics. In certain situations, a P-38 can out turn a Spitfire Mk XVI but as long as the Spitfire Mk XVI (or any Spitfire) is allowed to stay in the medium speed range (where the Spitfire pretty much out performs most planes in AH) then the P-38 driver can only hope that his death is quick and painless. However, get the Spitfire Mk XVI (and any other Spitfire) out of it's comfort zone, it's a far more manageable fight for the P-38 driver. Not saying it will guarantee victory 100% of the time, it will at the least give the P-38 driver a fighting chance at coming out on top.
ack-ack
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He's not exaggerating, rather more of a generalization devoid of any specifics. In certain situations, a P-38 can out turn a Spitfire Mk XVI but as long as the Spitfire Mk XVI (or any Spitfire) is allowed to stay in the medium speed range (where the Spitfire pretty much out performs most planes in AH) then the P-38 driver can only hope that his death is quick and painless. However, get the Spitfire Mk XVI (and any other Spitfire) out of it's comfort zone, it's a far more manageable fight for the P-38 driver. Not saying it will guarantee victory 100% of the time, it will at the least give the P-38 driver a fighting chance at coming out on top.
ack-ack
Yes like Ack-Ack is saying the Spitfire has it's comfort zone's like all other aircraft. And take any aircraft out of these zone's and it's either game over for that particular aircraft. The greatest example of aircraft comfertzone's is the situation and tactic's used by early Wildcat and A6m Driver's ( pilots ). If an F4F fought the A6m on it's terms ( the F4F ) The F4F was very effective against the Zero. But take the F4F out of it's Comfort Zone ( Tactic's ) The Zero would Rule the F4F.
And by comfort zone's i mean the best and proven tactics for the individual aircraft.
And as we have seen the likes of an F4F in the game using the right tactic's for the plane you can still compete with faster and more manoeuvrable aircraft.
At the end of the day the plane is a tool of war. And it's up-to the craftsman to get the best result's from his tool's. :)
And some people may argue over which is the best aircraft for dealing with another aircraft. BUT REMEMBER an aircraft is only as good as the pilot allows it to be and wants it to be. In the end it's the man/woman who flys it that decides hey I'm going to beat you by fighting my way. :) :) :aok
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A-20 will eat a 16 in a stall fight
care to test that? im ya huckleberry
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I haven't read much of this great thread.......... But I'll tell you this.......
If I'm on an egotrip and want my name in lights, I default to the 16.
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A-20 will eat a 16 in a stall fight
There are vary few people that can do that, that is you.
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There are vary few people that can do that, that is you.
The only other two that I know that are capable of going toe to toe with a Spitfire mk XVI in an A-20G is Widewing and snaphook.
ack-ack
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care to test that? im ya huckleberry
Would be fun to watch. We all know that only 3-4 folks in this entire game could give a good Spit 16 pilot a run for their money in an A-20.
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The only other two that I know that are capable of going toe to toe with a Spitfire mk XVI in an A-20G is Widewing and snaphook.
ack-ack
Wow Ack-Ack you not commenting on my post WoW or are just ignoring me???
Sorry Ack-Ack i couldn't resist saying it :lol :salute
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care to test that? im ya huckleberry
sure i,ll go a few rounds
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If you know how to use flaps, basically every plane can beat the spit XVI.
38, mossie, A-20, even these big hunks of metal can outturn a spixteen with the use of flaps.
Only if youre in a 1v1 situation though. It's stupid to bleed off energy to pull flaps if theres more than 1 con around.
I want in on this one too. DA; you try every plane against me in a Spit XVI then report back on which ones you out-turned me in.
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Wow, you must be good! :O
In a horde maybe :devil
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I want in on this one too. DA; you try every plane against me in a Spit XVI then report back on which ones you out-turned me in.
hmm lets see, A6M2, A6M5, brewster, c202, D3A, B5N, 109 E,109 F4, F4U1, 1A, 1D, F6F, Hurri 1, hurri 2c, I16, Ki84, seafire, Spit 1/5/8/9, SBD,
In flat turns I say all of the above may have missed a few.
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I want in on this one too. DA; you try every plane against me in a Spit XVI then report back on which ones you out-turned me in.
I'll say it now, Spit IX, Spit VIII, Spit V, Spit I, Seafire, A6M, 109F, 109E, F4F, FM2, F4U-1A, Maybe F4U-4, P-39D I think, Maybe Q also, P-38G if I have a great day, La-5 maybe, La-7 Maybe, Fokker D7, Fokker DrI, Sopwith Camel, the other WW1 plane, and I think I'm leaving a couple out.
That's my pre duel predictions.
What time do you want to do this? I'd like to see how I match up against an accomplished pilot flying the spixteen.
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I'll say it now, Spit IX, Spit VIII, Spit V, Spit I, Seafire, A6M, 109F, 109E, F4F, FM2, F4U-1A, Maybe F4U-4, P-39D I think, Maybe Q also, P-38G if I have a great day, La-5 maybe, La-7 Maybe, Fokker D7, Fokker DrI, Sopwith Camel, the other WW1 plane, and I think I'm leaving a couple out.
That's my pre duel predictions.
What time do you want to do this? I'd like to see how I match up against an accomplished pilot flying the spixteen.
I'll be on tonight... maybe eightish at the latest.
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I'll be on tonight... maybe eightish at the latest.
Ok.
Pm me in game when you get online.
I'm 49Drunk in game.
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hmm lets see, A6M2, A6M5, brewster, c202, D3A, B5N, 109 E,109 F4, F4U1, 1A, 1D, F6F, Hurri 1, hurri 2c, I16, Ki84, seafire, Spit 1/5/8/9, SBD,
In flat turns I say all of the above may have missed a few.
I think we could have all named most of those so I won't be surprised.
I'll say it now, Spit IX, Spit VIII, Spit V, Spit I, Seafire, A6M, 109F, 109E, F4F, FM2, F4U-1A, Maybe F4U-4, P-39D I think, Maybe Q also, P-38G if I have a great day, La-5 maybe, La-7 Maybe, Fokker D7, Fokker DrI, Sopwith Camel, the other WW1 plane, and I think I'm leaving a couple out.
That's my pre duel predictions.
What time do you want to do this? I'd like to see how I match up against an accomplished pilot flying the spixteen.
Where's the Mossie, A-20 and P-38?
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Let me know when you guys are going to test this. Id like to help out too.
PM me in game 82Plazus
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sure i,ll go a few rounds
shoot me a pm when youll be on or when is best for you
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Let me know when you guys are going to test this. Id like to help out too.
PM me in game 82Plazus
Hell i will even help by flying a Spit 8 Against a Spit 16 to show it up :lol :D :rock
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Hell i will even help by flying a Spit 8 Against a Spit 16 to show it up :lol :D :rock
I'm thinkin' no, no you won't...
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Well, we fought several fights. As the XVI pilot I tried to remain in relatively, but not total, flat turns.
Sandwitch tried the Mossie, 109G-14, F4F-4, Spit IX and P-38G. About the only fight that he was able to easily out-turn me in was the A6M2.
Here's a film of the fight against the F4F-4 which shows just how slow and how tightly a Spit XVI can turn. I almost out-turned him in this one:
http://www.mediafire.com/?z2zz4ejjiry
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Well, we fought several fights. As the XVI pilot I tried to remain in relatively, but not total, flat turns.
Sandwitch tried the Mossie, 109G-14, F4F-4, Spit IX and P-38G.
Of course he's going to be out turned in a P-38G doing flat turns against a Spitfire Mk XVI or against any other Spitfire. Someone that knows how to fight in a P-38 won't be doing flat turns against a Spitfire, we'll be using vertical turns and maneuvering to get an angle for the shot. Not to knock on sandwich but you didn't fight someone that knows the P-38 all that well if he tried to flat turn fight a Spitfire.
ack-ack
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Of course he's going to be out turned in a P-38G doing flat turns against a Spitfire Mk XVI or against any other Spitfire. Someone that knows how to fight in a P-38 won't be doing flat turns against a Spitfire, we'll be using vertical turns and maneuvering to get an angle for the shot. Not to knock on sandwich but you didn't fight someone that knows the P-38 all that well if he tried to flat turn fight a Spitfire.
ack-ack
I've been in a few of those right on the deck with 16s where the stall horn is blaring and you are waiting to see who stalls out first. 9 out of 10 times the Spit 16 drops a wing first and I can get em in my 38G
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Of course he's going to be out turned in a P-38G doing flat turns against a Spitfire Mk XVI or against any other Spitfire. Someone that knows how to fight in a P-38 won't be doing flat turns against a Spitfire, we'll be using vertical turns and maneuvering to get an angle for the shot. Not to knock on sandwich but you didn't fight someone that knows the P-38 all that well if he tried to flat turn fight a Spitfire.
ack-ack
Sandwitch was using the vert in most of our fights while I remained mostly in flat turns. The exception to that was if I got behind him, then I would also use the vert to follow him.
As to the Spit IX for those who claim an VIII or IX will eat a XVI for lunch in a turn, it was virtually a stalemate. IIRC Sandwitch eventually augered in that one when the fight got slow.
For a guy who's only been playing for around a year Sandwitch did a great job. Could a more seasoned pilot have done better? Probably but he accounted for himself well and is one we'll all be watching out for in the future.
:salute Sandwitch. Fun fights. I'd be totally comfortable with you on my wing.
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Unless the FM changed drastically in the past couple years, the Spit 16 can do virtually anything the Spit 9 can do, and still have something left in reserve.
I haven't pick up a joystick since the WW1 update (and even that didn't hold my interest long, and it was a couple years prior to that) but I'd be willing to bet there isn't ANYONE playing who could consistantly kill me in an A-20 or Mossie if I was in a Spit 16.
You need to differentiate between people who have at least a half a clue about how to fight, and the other 90% of the people playing.
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I'm thinkin' no, no you won't...
It no be the first time i'v defeated a spit 16 useing the spit 8 :) :salute
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It no be the first time i'v defeated a spit 16 useing the spit 8 :) :salute
Not fighting BE in the 16 you ain't.
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Yeah bullet, BE would absolutley tear you up in a dogfight.
Not a knock against you but BE can absolutely hover that spit in mid air.
And good fights BE, you really showed me what an experienced pilot can do in a spixteen.
<S>
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Yeah bullet, BE would absolutley tear you up in a dogfight.
Not a knock against you but BE can absolutely hover that spit in mid air.
And good fights BE, you really showed me what an experienced pilot can do in a spixteen.
<S>
I welcome any pilot who can teach me and improve my skill's in a Spit of any Mark and i have fought BE before in the D/A He was in his Spit 16 an me my Spit 8 the fight lasted for about 5 minute's till a tempy from the third party picked us both :)
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I welcome any pilot who can teach me and improve my skill's in a Spit of any Mark and i have fought BE before in the D/A He was in his Spit 16 an me my Spit 8 the fight lasted for about 5 minute's till a tempy from the third party picked us both :)
Is your chest soar now?
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Is your chest soar now?
Im afraid not Bear why is you'r cos if it is i'd advise you go and see you'r doctor you may have anything from TB 2 a chest infection lol
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Im afraid not Bear why is you'r cos if it is i'd advise you go and see you'r doctor you may have anything from TB 2 a chest infection lol
Just wanted to make sure you didn't hurt yourself thumping your chest
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Like I said, the spixteen is an evil monstrosity.
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Since they fixed the tator problem I havnt had too much problems with spits in general. When flyiing a tator bird you put everything into that one shot, used to be you couldnt count on that but now you can.
I like how the OP posted Sodas eval and it said watch for overshoots...thats normally where Ill get a spit. They got bigger wings and look awesome getting hit by a tator.
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Just wanted to make sure you didn't hurt yourself thumping your chest
Oh cool thankyou for your concern its much appreciated :) :salute
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Since they fixed the tator problem I havnt had too much problems with spits in general. When flyiing a tator bird you put everything into that one shot, used to be you couldnt count on that but now you can.
I like how the OP posted Sodas eval and it said watch for overshoots...thats normally where Ill get a spit. They got bigger wings and look awesome getting hit by a tator.
Strangely, I've been having a high number of tater duds lately. None on the spixteen though. Maybe it's a thing that has to be fixed on a plane by plane basis?
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Strangely, I've been having a high number of tater duds lately. None on the spixteen though. Maybe it's a thing that has to be fixed on a plane by plane basis?
I believe that's how they explained it, remember a problem previously with tator duds on the mossie that is gone.
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The only usable disadvantage of the SpitXVI vrs. perhaps the majority of AH rides is that the Spit airframe cannot bleed energy as quickly as some others. Of course, energy retention is no real disadvantage in the hands of a competent pilot, but can be used to force the overshoot and a quick shot against the uninitiated. Helps if the uninitiated is such a bloody bad shot they can't do fatal damage spraying with the Hizookas during the overhoot and also wishes to scissors back and forth in front of you, instead of simply using level or climbing turn to out-rate everything in the plane set in a nose-to-tail chase. Oh, before any of the resident idiots says something about "not knowing how to fight Spixeteens", I have in fact flat murdered hundreds of Spixteens in close fights flying a frickin' P-47D-11. Fortunately rising to a skill level that allows me to exploit the usual level of AH pilotage has not made me a liar about relative plane capacities, as seems to be the case for many experienced AH players.
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The only usable disadvantage of the SpitXVI vrs. perhaps the majority of AH rides is that the Spit airframe cannot bleed energy as quickly as some others.
This isn't exactly true. The Spit slows down like a boat when you shut the trottle down at least in relatively level flight. Go test this yourself. Of the planes I fly the most (Bf109K-4, F6F-5, FW190A-8 and all Spit variations) the Spit slows the fastest of every one in a landing glide pattern and by a wide margin.
What the Spit does do inceredibly well though is retain E under power, particularily in a turn. In my fights with Sandwich the other night there were times after 2-3 turns I was trying to get the flaps down and I still couldn't do it because I was still too fast.
Spits just don't like to bleed E in a turn.
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BnZs is right the spit's one major weakness / akilisheel is it's in ability to bleed the energy from any dive over 100feet persecond. This if i remember and i probally will be corrected on this But it is nose heavy like a lot of other water cooled fighter's. It doesn't have a nice big air brake upfront like the F4u And P47 and their radial aircooled engine's. Allwater cooled engine fighters Are streamlined from nose con tip to the tail. But the radial end=gee actually work's like a big airbrake that is why they have tremendous dive speed's and are easy to pullout of the dive's.
Come on who is going to argue with me on this one :)
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BE is spot on here.
While the Spitfire holds energy great under power, it will also slow down incredibly quickly w/o it.
It is just most Spit pilots don't have the slightest clue what they are doing and tend to fly around full throttle.
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It is a horrible plane when you have somebody on the stick at the other end who knows how to use it.....come to think of it....this counts for any of the plane set.....yes the spit 16 has many strong points...with the right stick...but so do the others.....My opinion of it is the general way the 16 is used is bad...but yes when you come across somebody who uses it right it does seem like it has no real weakness...but I find this with the likes of the KI84 also.... all this just comes down to though, is my need to learn more..... the monster plane in my mind, is the K4....this is one plane that seems to have the choice to engage and disengage at will....once again..the stick counts though.
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BE is spot on here.
While the Spitfire holds energy great under power, it will also slow down incredibly quickly w/o it.
It is just most Spit pilots don't have the slightest clue what they are doing and tend to fly around full throttle.
WMLute if you read some of the Spitfire vetrans books and note's an stuff. They all comment that the Spit V and abouve where great at diving but getting out of the dive was the tricky bit even to a skilled pilot. that is why we lost so many Spits to the 109 as it could slow quiker thus the Spit over takes or overshoots the 109. :)
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WMLute if you read some of the Spitfire vetrans books and note's an stuff. They all comment that the Spit V and abouve where great at diving but getting out of the dive was the tricky bit even to a skilled pilot. that is why we lost so many Spits to the 109 as it could slow quiker thus the Spit over takes or overshoots the 109. :)
None of those authors fly AcesHigh or are good sources of references for how the Spitfire behaves in this game.
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WMLute if you read some of the Spitfire vetrans books and note's an stuff. They all comment that the Spit V and abouve where great at diving but getting out of the dive was the tricky bit even to a skilled pilot. that is why we lost so many Spits to the 109 as it could slow quiker thus the Spit over takes or overshoots the 109. :)
You can maintain a much more controlled dive (i.e. keep it from getting too fast) in a Spit than you can in a 109 and it's much easier to pull out of even though the dive speed may be faster.
The 109's generally continue to gain speed in a dive even with the throttle off. In an extended dive you're forced to cross-control so as not to stiffen the elevators beyond the point that you can trim out. You rarely if ever have to cross control in a Spit; simply reducing throttle holds it well within it's dive paramaters.
And speaking of overshooting, while you might reduce throttle to saddle up a shot there are other ways to prevent an overshoot even at maximum throttle and those methods might actually be preferable in order to maintain E.
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WMLute if you read some of the Spitfire vetrans books and note's an stuff. They all comment that the Spit V and abouve where great at diving but getting out of the dive was the tricky bit even to a skilled pilot. that is why we lost so many Spits to the 109 as it could slow quiker thus the Spit over takes or overshoots the 109. :)
Odd, I've never seen that commented on even once. I have seen it stated in regards to the Bf109 though. I think you have it backwards.
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Odd, I've never seen that commented on even once. I have seen it stated in regards to the Bf109 though. I think you have it backwards.
I may have but i'm sure that the like's of the Mk16 and beond had the same problem. As speed's got higher and the movable control surfaces werent increased in size to sufficiently handle the stronger force's encountered.
As i believe that Mitchell's original design of the Spitfire's Airframe could only be sufficent up-to certain speed' like 425 knot, 450 mph or sumit like that. ????
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I may have but i'm sure that the like's of the Mk16 and beond had the same problem. As speed's got higher and the movable control surfaces werent increased in size to sufficiently handle the stronger force's encountered.
As i believe that Mitchell's original design of the Spitfire's Airframe could only be sufficent up-to certain speed' like 425 knot, 450 mph or sumit like that. ????
You have it backwards. Everything you're saying matches everything I've read about the 109's and is counter to everything I've ever read about Spitfires. Beyond that the in-game models support the accounts by pilots in WWII.
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You have it backwards. Everything you're saying matches everything I've read about the 109's and is counter to everything I've ever read about Spitfires. Beyond that the in-game models support the accounts by pilots in WWII.
HHMM it is looking like i have got it backword's oops i just went and reread the book i was reading oops sorry :) :salute
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I just want to know what's with the guys that bring a Spit 16 to a fight where they have both alt and numerical advantage over the enemy. To me, that's the LAST plane I'd bring if I wanted to add to my 7k perk tally.
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I just want to know what's with the guys that bring a Spit 16 to a fight where they have both alt and numerical advantage over the enemy. To me, that's the LAST plane I'd bring if I wanted to add to my 7k perk tally.
Name in lights...mostly. Those looking for a challenge look for the XVI last on the list. It deserves a small perk cost, as does the LA-7, just to make those flying it pay attention to what they're doing ;)
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Name in lights...mostly. Those looking for a challenge look for the XVI last on the list. It deserves a small perk cost, as does the LA-7, just to make those flying it pay attention to what they're doing ;)
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Thats agreeable that one perk it for around 15 perk's then the new player's shant have the aircraft's ability's thus they wont get killed alot in it. They shall have to work up the skill's to fly it and bring it back down safely. HHHmmm good idea that one is :) :aok :salute
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Name in lights...mostly. Those looking for a challenge look for the XVI last on the list. It deserves a small perk cost, as does the LA-7 and P-51, just to make those flying it pay attention to what they're doing ;)
Fixed for you if you want to be consistent. Personally I don't think any of them require any perks whatsoever.
Late war tour 125 2010-06-01 to 2010-06-30
Plane Name Kills Deaths Kill/Death Ratio
P-51D: 21467 17995 1.19
Spitfire Mk XVI: 18347 16347 1.12
La-7: 10221 9006 1.13
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Fixed for you if you want to be consistent. Personally I don't think any of them require any perks whatsoever.
Late war tour 125 2010-06-01 to 2010-06-30
Plane Name Kills Deaths Kill/Death Ratio
P-51D: 21467 17995 1.19
Spitfire Mk XVI: 18347 16347 1.12
La-7: 10221 9006 1.13
The problem with that stat is they are subjective. A lot of people that fly them do not how to fly them correct. If we where to have something set up that only people who knows how to fly them, there will be a big difference. And that goes for any AC too.
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The Spit XVI and LA7 are much more perkworthy than the Spit 14 and Chog, if you want to be honest with yourself.
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I have scanned this bit of info from my collection of in formation on aircraft since WW1 to present day.
This shows what the Spitfire mk 1 to the last version is capable of in speed so have a read it may help in determing how you cope with a Spit on your Tail.
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/9b29b6432ce13dcf2867b790e385c4126g.jpg)
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The Spit XVI and LA7 are much more perkworthy than the Spit 14 and Chog, if you want to be honest with yourself.
If you really want to be honest with yourself, the Spitfire Mk XVI nor the LA-7 are perk worthy. Why? Because neither plane in their current state and player usage unbalances the game play in the arena. I mean, since we're talking about being honest....
ack-ack
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The Spit XVI and LA7 are much more perkworthy than the Spit 14 and Chog, if you want to be honest with yourself.
That's just untrue.
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The Spit XVI and LA7 are much more perkworthy than the Spit 14 and Chog, if you want to be honest with yourself.
I don't know about the 14..but those chogs need more...those have alot of nasty guns that seem to only need 1-2 hit and you are toast...I'd rather be hit by a tater...more chance of survival
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I don't know about the 14..but those chogs need more...those have alot of nasty guns that seem to only need 1-2 hit and you are toast...I'd rather be hit by a tater...more chance of survival
lol go to the DA lake, there you can get ho'd by temps and now CHogs all day long. its the 'international' past time there, heavily practiced by the Bish, Rook & Knights!