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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: cveirs on August 05, 2010, 11:19:14 AM

Title: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: cveirs on August 05, 2010, 11:19:14 AM
I just wish to ask a question about the Pink arena totals that change every 15 minutes or so. I wish to fly with my squadron and can't get in because the total is set to 100, 200 etc...  and the arena is full. Which makes it very difficult to get into the arena in the evenings. Then it jumps to 400 for about 5 minutes and back down to 200. Is there a dot command to over ride this? There must be a way to fly with your squadron when you have squad night. By the way when are we going to get some new maps in AH? Thank you
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Lusche on August 05, 2010, 11:21:38 AM
There must be a way to fly with your squadron when you have squad night.

There is a way... called "let's all meet in other arena" ;)
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: pervert on August 05, 2010, 11:31:41 AM
I just wish to ask a question about the Pink arena totals that change every 15 minutes or so. I wish to fly with my squadron and can't get in because the total is set to 100, 200 etc...  and the arena is full. Which makes it very difficult to get into the arena in the evenings. Then it jumps to 400 for about 5 minutes and back down to 200. Is there a dot command to over ride this? There must be a way to fly with your squadron when you have squad night. By the way when are we going to get some new maps in AH? Thank you

Just keep logging in and out and you will get in as the totals change. I've never had to wait longer than 5 minutes about the same time as it takes to long in on the forum and write a post out  :D  :aok
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: meandog on August 05, 2010, 11:56:24 AM
lad to see the longest wait for you has only been 5 min. I have had nights of clicking for up to nearly 20 minutes while listening to the squad over TS talking about what they are doing IN the game. I don't understand why the pink arena is like this especially at peak times.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Lusche on August 05, 2010, 11:59:55 AM
lad to see the longest wait for you has only been 5 min. I have had nights of clicking for up to nearly 20 minutes while listening to the squad over TS talking about what they are doing IN the game. I don't understand why the pink arena is like this especially at peak times.

You are already having the answer to this in your own posting. Your squad is in pink arena, you are outside, but they are not willing to meet up with you in LWBlue. And that's why it is the way it is. Instead you are trying to get in and get in and get in....
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: pervert on August 05, 2010, 12:03:03 PM
lad to see the longest wait for you has only been 5 min. I have had nights of clicking for up to nearly 20 minutes while listening to the squad over TS talking about what they are doing IN the game. I don't understand why the pink arena is like this especially at peak times.

How do you do it? I quit out at the arena clipboard and then go back into the username log on screen and log in out until the cap changes.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: grizz441 on August 05, 2010, 12:05:30 PM
The caps jump up one hundred more when Blue reaches 70% capacity.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: APDrone on August 05, 2010, 12:06:10 PM
I just go into LW blue, then exit.  2 or 3 times and 90% the time the numbers change so I can get into Pink.

I think the longest I've ever had to wait was 8 tries before it finally opened up.

By going into blue, it adjusts the numbers of that arena which, I believe, impacts the slots in pink.

I could be wrong, tho.

Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Traveler on August 05, 2010, 12:06:58 PM
It's never a problem on Tuesday evenings.  that's when they run it like it should always be run.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: meandog on August 05, 2010, 12:16:35 PM
You are already having the answer to this in your own posting. Your squad is in pink arena, you are outside, but they are not willing to meet up with you in LWBlue. And that's why it is the way it is. Instead you are trying to get in and get in and get in....

I might just be a simple man...but that doesn't make any sense at all...if they are in there why in the world would they get out....have them just quit the mission there on to change arenas? Why should our squad sufer just cuz sum1 can't get in?

Now I might give that logging into blue and back out a try to see what that does...thanks for that info.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Larokkit on August 05, 2010, 12:23:46 PM
Yeah its a gripe and i should'nt post when upset but its a consistant problem for me.

  There are 150 people in the pink arena with a 100 cap. There are 12 in the blue with 3 and 4 on the other teams. That means 1 or 2 are fighting each other and i have to hunt a whole map for 1 or 2 people. No problem if i have all day . Between work and kids i get very little fly time.. maybe an hour or two a week.This makes an outstanding game not a lot of fun.

 I dont feel its good to squeak without at least offering a suggestion. So here are couple: 1.Dont institute caps until peak fly times. Or  2. (my fav.) do away with it all together and if people don't like large numbers they will go to the other arenas on there own.

  OK, done. know its nothing new but need to vent so i can justify paying my $15 for a while longer.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: meandog on August 05, 2010, 12:27:12 PM
I would like to understand it so here's the question.....

Why are there caps on the arenas?
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Soulyss on August 05, 2010, 12:33:38 PM
I would like to understand it so here's the question.....

Why are there caps on the arenas?

Do a search for arena caps, and/or posts by HiTech and Skuzzy (who was just paraphrasing things HT had said previously IIRC).  There have been a lot of threads over the years about it and the reasons have been given.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Lusche on August 05, 2010, 12:38:39 PM
I might just be a simple man...but that doesn't make any sense at all...if they are in there why in the world would they get out

Because off YOU maybe? Because a squad should be about camaraderie? Not expecting them to drop everything instantly... but how about "let's meet all in 15 minutes in LWB to have some fun together"?
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: gyrene81 on August 05, 2010, 12:42:02 PM
It's never a problem on Tuesday evenings.  that's when they run it like it should always be run.
So you enjoy the massive b.s. noob session that is Titanic Tuesday...have you looked at the actual numbers at peak times on Tuesdays versus the rest of the week?


Arena caps server a purpose, if you can give a valid argument for changing them, HiTech may consider it.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: AWwrgwy on August 05, 2010, 12:44:54 PM
Because off YOU maybe? Because a squad should be about camaraderie? Not expecting them to drop everything instantly... but how about "let's meet all in 15 minutes in LWB to have some fun together"?

Actually, that's probably why they're in the full arena.

They planned it that way....   :noid

 :rofl


The secret to a short wait is to go to the other LW arena.  You need to get those numbers up to increase the caps in the full arena.  Trying to get into the full arena and going back to the select screen does you no good.

And, who knows, if enough people go to the other, not fun because you're in it arena, it may become the fun arena.

 :aok


wrongway
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Wobbly on August 05, 2010, 12:45:59 PM
As a euro, cap kicks in just before I get home from work in the evening. Numbers seem down atm (to me early euro evening), pushing cap back a few hours in the summer would be nice :)
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: AWwrgwy on August 05, 2010, 12:47:31 PM
As a euro, cap kicks in just before I get home from work in the evening. Numbers seem down atm (to me early euro evening), pushing cap back a few hours in the summer would be nice :)

Or, starting them earlier.

You need to recruit more "locals" to play.  Get the numbers up and more even faster.

It's all Yurps failt.

 :huh


wrongway
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Lusche on August 05, 2010, 12:49:29 PM
So you enjoy the massive b.s. noob session that is Titanic Tuesday...have you looked at the actual numbers at peak times on Tuesdays versus the rest of the week?

Actually Tuesday was made the Titanic day because the numbers had always been quite low that day - before TT was installed.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Lusche on August 05, 2010, 12:50:51 PM
As a euro, cap kicks in just before I get home from work in the evening. Numbers seem down atm (to me early euro evening), pushing cap back a few hours in the summer would be nice :)

Or maybe: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,292342.0.html  ;)
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Shuffler on August 05, 2010, 12:58:23 PM
Another individual suffering from self induced grief.

Get the squad to meet up in another arena.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Traveler on August 05, 2010, 01:00:33 PM
Wow, easy guy, I didn’t create Titanic Tuesday, Hitech Creations did.   If you have a problem with it, take it up with Hi Tech.   I was just pointing out to the frustrated player that caps are not an issue on Tuesday evening.  Just as HiTech intended.   Squads flying on Tuesday evening are not faced with the cap issue. And that’s fact.

So you enjoy the massive b.s. noob session that is Titanic Tuesday...have you looked at the actual numbers at peak times on Tuesdays versus the rest of the week?
No I haven’t looked at the actual numbers at peak times on Tuesday.  I’m to busy flying with my squad and I don’t think I would know or care to know how to look at the numbers.  I have no idea what the peak times are .  again, nor do I care.

Arena caps server a purpose, if you can give a valid argument for changing them, HiTech may consider it.
I don’t have to give a valid argument, HiTech already did.  They created Titanic Tuesday, No caps, no problems with squads flying together.   If you get booted you can rejoin right where you were without taking 10 or 15 attempts jumping from arena to arena .  If the caps are a problem just fly on Tuesday the NO CAP NIGHT.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: ImADot on August 05, 2010, 01:23:55 PM
Between work and kids i get very little fly time.. maybe an hour or two a week.

Make your hour or two a week on Tuesday night.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: meandog on August 05, 2010, 01:46:40 PM
Lushe...sorry to tick ya off. Was not ment to do it. But your respnse was not needed in that manner. In 15 min or so I would finally get in the arena so why have whole squad change to a different one. We have swapped arenas b4 for other reasons but we like to fly against and with those we usually do. Well...this is going no where and I should have deleted this post but have already put the time of typing it...lol..I am done...Thanks to all for the usefull info.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Lusche on August 05, 2010, 01:51:40 PM
Lushe...sorry to tick ya off. Was not ment to do it. But your respnse was not needed in that manner.


Tick me off?  :huh

And what exactly was the "wrong manner" in my response?  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Shuffler on August 05, 2010, 02:10:41 PM
Lushe...sorry to tick ya off. Was not ment to do it. But your respnse was not needed in that manner. In 15 min or so I would finally get in the arena so why have whole squad change to a different one. We have swapped arenas b4 for other reasons but we like to fly against and with those we usually do. Well...this is going no where and I should have deleted this post but have already put the time of typing it...lol..I am done...Thanks to all for the usefull info.
..

When you dig yourself in a hole...... it is hard for others to get you out.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: SlapShot on August 05, 2010, 02:20:35 PM
In 15 min or so I would finally get in the arena so why have whole squad change to a different one.

So you had to wait a whopping 15 minutes to get in ?  :O ... zOmfG
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: kvuo75 on August 05, 2010, 02:37:12 PM
 If you get booted you can rejoin right where you were without taking 10 or 15 attempts jumping from arena to arena .



I can do that every day of the week. I play in the lower populated arena.


Quote
  If the caps are a problem just fly on Tuesday the NO CAP NIGHT.


or play in the lower populated arena.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Wobbly on August 05, 2010, 04:09:34 PM
You need to recruit more "locals" to play.  Get the numbers up and more even faster.
wrongway

What, like I book a an advert on commercial TV or take a half page in the Times or do a leaflet drop round the neighbourgood asking for more euros to join?

Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Shuffler on August 05, 2010, 04:11:33 PM
What, like I book a an advert on commercial TV or take a half page in the Times or do a leaflet drop round the neighbourgood asking for more euros to join?



Do you have any friends?
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Wobbly on August 05, 2010, 04:14:35 PM
Do you have any friends?

off course not, thats why I play AH
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Shuffler on August 05, 2010, 04:15:59 PM
off course not, thats why I play AH

 :rofl


 :neener:
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Traveler on August 05, 2010, 04:50:18 PM

I can do that every day of the week. I play in the lower populated arena.


or play in the lower populated arena.


ON Tuesday night there is no lower populated LW Arena.  HiTech only establishes one LW arena and sets the cap so high there is no limit.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Babalonian on August 05, 2010, 07:11:47 PM
I just wish the arena caps recorgnized players signing in that haven't previously logged in for ~12 hours and give them leniancy, or at the very least detect when more than 80% of their squad's online members are in a single locked arena and allowing them access to it.  Seems a little rediculous to me to be paying a monthly fee and to have people trying to log in 8+ hours in advance of actualy playing just to get a spot in the arena (that can't be lowering operational costs for us (part of our $15) or increasing profit on HTC's end) and denying a player from flying with 10+ buddies online in a locked arena.  Don't we have ENY on the insdie of the arenas to deal with the issues that may arise from allowing certain players to join a capped arena while limiting others?
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: BulletVI on August 05, 2010, 07:26:24 PM

I just wish that they say hey 100 players for the Rooks / 100 Players for the Knight's and 100 Players for The Bishop's. I mean im fed-up of coming in ( logging on ) and seeing pink arena with 145/100 players then fly for a while in Purple and come out of that then see pink arena at 199/250 or 199/200

I mean what's :headscratch: :headscratch: the crack here  :headscratch: :headscratch:
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: AWwrgwy on August 05, 2010, 08:20:55 PM
I just wish the arena caps recorgnized players signing in that haven't previously logged in for ~12 hours and give them leniancy, or at the very least detect when more than 80% of their squad's online members are in a single locked arena and allowing them access to it.  Seems a little rediculous to me to be paying a monthly fee and to have people trying to log in 8+ hours in advance of actualy playing just to get a spot in the arena (that can't be lowering operational costs for us (part of our $15) or increasing profit on HTC's end) and denying a player from flying with 10+ buddies online in a locked arena.  Don't we have ENY on the insdie of the arenas to deal with the issues that may arise from allowing certain players to join a capped arena while limiting others?

Denying?  Exactly who's fault is that?  It's like whining about having season tickets to a sporting event because the matches don't meet your schedule.

Give me a break.

There are means for the individual to fix the problem.  Seems it's too difficult.

Where's my welfare check?
 :neener:


wrongway
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: falcon23 on August 05, 2010, 08:44:09 PM
I am curious..I went into pink at 199/200..left some hours later and it said 264/200..how does that happen???is that telling me that 64 people got in after me during that time frame?And if so..if 64 people had to leave in order for 64 people to get in,why wouldnt it read an even 200/200 when I leave?
                                                                    Thanks,
                                                                        Falcon23 :salute
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: grizz441 on August 05, 2010, 08:46:41 PM
I am curious..I went into pink at 199/200..left some hours later and it said 264/200..how does that happen???is that telling me that 64 people got in after me during that time frame?And if so..if 64 people had to leave in order for 64 people to get in,why wouldnt it read an even 200/200 when I leave?
                                                                    Thanks,
                                                                        Falcon23 :salute

It got up in the mid 200's when the cap was up to 300.  Once a few people logged out of blue and its capacity dropped below 70%, Pink's cap dropped back down to 200.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: falcon23 on August 05, 2010, 08:48:19 PM
AHHH....thanks grizz.. :aok
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: pluck on August 05, 2010, 08:55:36 PM
off course not, thats why I play AH

nice one :aok
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: ImADot on August 05, 2010, 10:00:18 PM
Damn...

A civil question, a civil answer, and a civil acknowledgement.  No flames, no rants, no panties in a wad.  :salute  :cheers:
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: kvuo75 on August 05, 2010, 10:38:04 PM
ON Tuesday night there is no lower populated LW Arena.  HiTech only establishes one LW arena and sets the cap so high there is no limit.

you missed the point. sorry.. tuesday you can have it your way. the rest of the week, play in the less populated arena.

this really is similar to the country/eny threads, you realize.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: gyrene81 on August 05, 2010, 10:47:09 PM
you missed the point.

(http://www.ratewall.com/cpics/7b0a37b6-b362-4006-b146-9132b433c7b7_Jeff_Dunham_Peanut.jpg)

You know where this is going don't you?
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Nemisis on August 06, 2010, 12:58:46 AM
Here, I'll rant for ya  :banana::


Stupid arena caps. Its always too low, I mean 103/100 and 43/150? Thats just dumb, so I demand HTC fix it RIGHT NOW. Why do we even have arena caps? Clearly everyone wants larger fights and the maps that are run in LW Pink.


Thats all I got for now, sorry  :D.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: AWwrgwy on August 06, 2010, 02:54:20 AM
Here, I'll rant for ya  :banana::


Stupid arena caps. Its always too low, I mean 103/100 and 43/150? Thats just dumb, so I demand HTC fix it RIGHT NOW. Why do we even have arena caps? Clearly everyone wants larger fights and the maps that are run in LW Pink.


Thats all I got for now, sorry  :D.


Uhhhhhhh

(http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/7febda3e-a62e-40f6-8d26-76266d3c6a4c.jpg)



wrongway
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: RTHolmes on August 06, 2010, 07:19:08 AM
Yeah its a gripe and i should'nt post when upset but its a consistant problem for me.

  There are 150 people in the pink arena with a 100 cap. There are 12 in the blue with 3 and 4 on the other teams. That means 1 or 2 are fighting each other and i have to hunt a whole map for 1 or 2 people. No problem if i have all day . Between work and kids i get very little fly time.. maybe an hour or two a week.This makes an outstanding game not a lot of fun.

 I dont feel its good to squeak without at least offering a suggestion. So here are couple: 1.Dont institute caps until peak fly times. Or  2. (my fav.) do away with it all together and if people don't like large numbers they will go to the other arenas on there own.

  OK, done. know its nothing new but need to vent so i can justify paying my $15 for a while longer.

agreed. #2 is the way to go with it. :aok
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Ghastly on August 06, 2010, 07:36:21 AM
Quote
Or  2. (my fav.) do away with it all together and if people don't like large numbers they will go to the other arenas on there own.

Oh really?  I have news for you, that's just not human nature.  Nobody is going to leave an arena where 600 people are flying to be the first 1, 2nd, or even 25th player in another arena.  Instead, they just get tired of the ill effects of an overpopulated arena.  Some would come to the board to bellyache about (insert behavior), and others would simply discontinue playing.

HTC didn't randomly decide one day to torque off a portion of the player base by adding roadblocks to getting into the arenas - they did it in response to a problem with large group behaviors and the effects they were having on the player base.

<S>


Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: RTHolmes on August 06, 2010, 07:55:27 AM
actually that is human nature, and a look at the arena numbers confirms it. with very low numbers (ie. caps dont effect arena choice) there are a small number of players who prefer the empty arena. when we had 2 fixed cap arenas, there was always a small number of players in the emptier arena. given a free choice and low overall numbers, figure 5-10% of the player base prefers the lower numbered arena, even if that means only 10 players in flight.

as the overall numbers go up and the more populated arena becomes more crowded, more of the player base prefers the less populated arena (as you would expect.) As an arena becomes crowded and gameplay issues start happening as a result, there are a significant number of players who will decide to go to the less popular arena.

in theory we should have a nice self-balancing system here where players can choose where they want to fly. the few weeks we had of dual fixed cap arenas bore this out as far as I could tell. I'm still :headscratch: why the dynamic caps were turned on again.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Ghastly on August 06, 2010, 08:08:17 AM
RTHolmes, you are right.  I should have said "only a small minority" rather than "Nobody".   One thing about human nature is that there are no absolutes.   

+297 on your sig... Oh, the irony, the irony!

<S>
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Lusche on August 06, 2010, 08:13:23 AM
in theory we should have a nice self-balancing system here where players can choose where they want to fly.

I am not that optimistic.
For example each Titanic Tuesday I see the very same players complaining on Ch200 again and again about TT's drawbacks: Dweebery, lots of warping and lagging, mega hording, and so on. All allegedly being a result of TT and too many players on a map. Yet they refuse to play anywhere else, for example in MW.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: thndregg on August 06, 2010, 08:20:58 AM
Yet they refuse to play anywhere else, for example in MW.

No flying exclusively top-end planes there. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: RTHolmes on August 06, 2010, 08:26:15 AM
true, but (human nature again) theres always going to be a small % of players who will find something to moan about. the wednesday babe thread is a classic example - "pfff. megan fox isnt that hot - her earlobes are 0.5mm too big. I could do better." :rolleyes:



Oh, the irony, the irony!
Ive yet to see a better definition ;)
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: gyrene81 on August 06, 2010, 08:38:53 AM
I am not that optimistic.
For example each Titanic Tuesday I see the very same players complaining on Ch200 again and again about TT's drawbacks: Dweebery, lots of warping and lagging, mega hording, and so on. All allegedly being a result of TT and too many players on a map. Yet they refuse to play anywhere else, for example in MW.
Lusche, as long as you have been around here, you know that it's easier for some people to whine than to change something on their end. These forums are full of that mentality for all to see.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Traveler on August 06, 2010, 09:47:36 AM
I am not that optimistic.
For example each Titanic Tuesday I see the very same players complaining on Ch200 again and again about TT's drawbacks: Dweebery, lots of warping and lagging, mega hording, and so on. All allegedly being a result of TT and too many players on a map. Yet they refuse to play anywhere else, for example in MW.

Exactly what is “Dweebery” ?    I really  don’t know what that means.

Lots of Warping and lagging,  This is not an issue caused by the large number of players in an arena and is not the reason that HiTech implemented CAPS.  According to HiTech each arena could handle 1000 or more players with no impact.  So it has to do more with an individuals ISP or internet connection or their machine and not the game servers.  If you feel otherwise , take it up with HiTech Creations.

“Mega hordin”  It is their $15.00 they can play it how they like.  If that mean organizing an a large group into coordinating an attack on a airfield or town, so what.  This is a game about capturing fields and fighting to hold or gain ground.  And to be honest you have to admit that CAPS really did nothing to stop “hordin”.   

“and so on”  Have no idea what problem that represents.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Lusche on August 06, 2010, 09:51:06 AM
Exactly what is “Dweebery” ?    I really  don’t know what that means.

Neither do I :)

  If you feel otherwise , take it up with HiTech Creations.

I don't feel otherwise.

Somehow I have the odd feeling you have misread my post ;)
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Traveler on August 06, 2010, 10:00:36 AM
Neither do I :)

I don't feel otherwise.

Somehow I have the odd feeling you have misread my post ;)

No I didnt' misread it, I was commenting on the content of your post.  Which I think was the comments of other's.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Shuffler on August 06, 2010, 10:13:07 AM
“Mega hordin”  It is their $15.00 they can play it how they like.  If that mean organizing an a large group into coordinating an attack on a airfield or town, so what.  This is a game about capturing fields and fighting to hold or gain ground.  And to be honest you have to admit that CAPS really did nothing to stop “hordin”.   


Actually it is a game of cartoon arial combat. The other items were added for those that do not like arial combat.

Caps are not designed to stop hording. Eny is the closest to leveling the field when a hord builds.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: SlapShot on August 06, 2010, 10:19:38 AM
And to be honest you have to admit that CAPS really did nothing to stop “hordin”.   

Hording was not the reason for CAPS nor was it intended to stop hording.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Traveler on August 06, 2010, 10:58:36 AM
Actually it is a game of cartoon arial combat. The other items were added for those that do not like arial combat.

Caps are not designed to stop hording. Eny is the closest to leveling the field when a hord builds.
I think it’s your interpretation that the game is about “cartoon arial combat”, however HiTech Creations describes it in different terms and it appears that the ground games was always part of their thinking.

According to HiTech the game is about capturing Territory.
HiTech Creations Web Site,
Help Menu Index -> Playing the Game
“Capturing territory through the use of air, land and sea power is the objective in Aces High.   The arena terrain is divided into three countries (Bishop, Knight, and Rook), with each country starting with an equal number of fields, towns, cities, task groups, and a single headquarters for each country.  All countries have an equal amount of territory at the beginning of a war. “
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: WMLute on August 06, 2010, 12:42:14 PM
Homepage->Features

Quote
Aces High is a massive multi-player online combat simulation centered around the World War II air-war.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Shuffler on August 06, 2010, 12:50:16 PM
I think it’s your interpretation that the game is about “cartoon arial combat”, however HiTech Creations describes it in different terms and it appears that the ground games was always part of their thinking.

According to HiTech the game is about capturing Territory.
HiTech Creations Web Site,
Help Menu Index -> Playing the Game
“Capturing territory through the use of air, land and sea power is the objective in Aces High.   The arena terrain is divided into three countries (Bishop, Knight, and Rook), with each country starting with an equal number of fields, towns, cities, task groups, and a single headquarters for each country.  All countries have an equal amount of territory at the beginning of a war. “


Try searching hitech quotes on the boards.


Your quoting a sales pitch.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Traveler on August 06, 2010, 01:26:05 PM
Try searching hitech quotes on the boards.


Your quoting a sales pitch.

I'm just looking at what HiTech is telling his customers.  I'm sure if it was not accurate he would have it corrected or removed.  The game includes all kinds of combat, ground, air and sea, with the object of the game being to capture and hold fields.   The rules of the game support that basic concept.  It's more then just a sales pitch, it's how the rules support the play of the game.  The pure Air combat is available in the DA.  But the original OP was questioning the continued need for CAPs that many people feel serve no purpose.



 
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Shuffler on August 06, 2010, 01:42:47 PM
Ok go to the sales pitch.... you'd make a lousy detective. :)
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: SlapShot on August 06, 2010, 01:58:35 PM
But the original OP was questioning the continued need for CAPs that many people feel serve no purpose.

Yeah ... we get that ... what they don't get, and fail to understand, even after repeatedly being told, the reasons that HTC decided to implement CAPS.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Traveler on August 06, 2010, 02:16:52 PM
Yeah ... we get that ... what they don't get, and fail to understand, even after repeatedly being told, the reasons that HTC decided to implement CAPS.

The CAPS originally came into play; what three, four years ago?  It happened not long after AHII released.  I've read many things posted about the what and why of the CAPs and I can honestly say that, as a long time player, I never experienced the problems that CAPs were implemented to correct.  I came over from AW.  I played AH one, for a long time.   I really didn't see a problem.  After CAPS the only problem I saw was not being able to get back into an arena to my squad if I got booted or if my squad was in a arena and the cap had some of us locked out.  It's never a problem on Tuesday night and I guess that the social problems that existed every  other night of the week, the poor social climate that caused the creation of the CAPS, don't exists on Tuesday nights.   I think if they wanted to have a better social climate in the arena, do away with 200.  Problem solved
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: SlapShot on August 06, 2010, 02:51:43 PM
The CAPS originally came into play; what three, four years ago?  It happened not long after AHII released.  I've read many things posted about the what and why of the CAPs and I can honestly say that, as a long time player, I never experienced the problems that CAPs were implemented to correct.  I came over from AW.  I played AH one, for a long time.   I really didn't see a problem.  After CAPS the only problem I saw was not being able to get back into an arena to my squad if I got booted or if my squad was in a arena and the cap had some of us locked out.  It's never a problem on Tuesday night and I guess that the social problems that existed every  other night of the week, the poor social climate that caused the creation of the CAPS, don't exists on Tuesday nights.   I think if they wanted to have a better social climate in the arena, do away with 200.  Problem solved

I have been here since 2002 and active in the game and on this BBS since that date, so I have seen it all.

AHII was first available for download on June 16, 2004.

3 years later ...

CAPS was introduced in October of 2007.

Titantic Tuesdays was introduced on November 27, 2007

3 years later ...

A refresher ... CAPS was introduced because HTC, thru data and research, came to the conclusion that a single arena, with the current numbers logging into a single arena, had reached and surpassed a saturation point to which the community can survive together in a "heathy" manner. It had become, what they described as a "slumfest", and it was costing them real money.

With that, they chose the current solution (CAPS) to distribute the total population across like servers/arenas along with offering other new types of arenas (EW and MW) that might attract certain individuals on a regular basis and that in turn would also lessen the population strain on the LW servers.

It doesn't matter what you or I have experienced ... it all comes down to dollars and cents in or out of HTC's pockets ... nothing more, nothing less ... and they have stated that since the CAPS were introduced, their player base has increased where it was stagnant and losing people before CAPS.

As long as they continue to grow, or it is proven that CAPS is costing them money, CAPS will be here forever. We may see it change its face in the future, but the basic premise will always be there.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Soulyss on August 06, 2010, 02:57:22 PM
Just because you didn't experience a problem doesn't mean that everyone else in the arena had the same experience.  HTC have stated why the system is like it is and they are also the only party with all the information to make such a decision.  The change was made to fix something they saw as a problem, and from what I can gather from reading the posts over the years/months it seems to have done the trick, or at least offered the best possible band-aid until a more suitable idea comes along.

Just as an example of different experiences, I rarely have a problem with the arena caps and generally seem to find myself having a better time in AH during nights other than Tuesdays, which I would gauge to be the least fun nights for me on average.  I completely believe that more isn't always better, that there is a critical mass in population that once reached means a decline in community and game play.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Nemisis on August 06, 2010, 02:58:06 PM
i have no problem with caps in general, but you just CAN'T have fights on the Trinity or Doughnut maps with 53 people. I'd like to see the minimum cap increased to 175. Caps are a real problem early in the day when you have maybe 210 people on total. One arena is capped out, and the other arena has the the 50-60 not in LWP, EW, MW, or the DA.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 06, 2010, 03:01:58 PM
I'm just looking at what HiTech is telling his customers.  I'm sure if it was not accurate he would have it corrected or removed.  The game includes all kinds of combat, ground, air and sea, with the object of the game being to capture and hold fields.   The rules of the game support that basic concept.  It's more then just a sales pitch, it's how the rules support the play of the game.  The pure Air combat is available in the DA.  But the original OP was questioning the continued need for CAPs that many people feel serve no purpose.



 

Caps were a business decision taken to improve the quality of the game that was in decline and causing customers to leave.  HiTech as stated this as the reason in many threads if you took the time to search for the threads.  HiTech has also said that since the caps have been in place, business has improved and more new players have come aboard than what was previous before the caps.

So while you may feel they serve no purpose, HiTech feels they do.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: BulletVI on August 06, 2010, 03:10:23 PM
Caps were a business decision taken to improve the quality of the game that was in decline and causing customers to leave.  HiTech as stated this as the reason in many threads if you took the time to search for the threads.  HiTech has also said that since the caps have been in place, business has improved and more new players have come aboard than what was previous before the caps.

So while you may feel they serve no purpose, HiTech feels they do.

ack-ack

And if they improve his business then he will tell you where to shovel it for the removal of them. But i would like to see him sort out the problem i see when i first log on to Ace's and that is this      :-      Late War Pink Arena 264/200

Now couldn't it say this   Late War Pink Arena 264/270 ????????????????

As i believe that for new player's that seeing this will confuse them by them thinking hey wait a mo there's 264 player's in there but only 200 players allowed how come that's like that or they may think that there is space for another 64 player's.


Its just a thought like :)
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Traveler on August 06, 2010, 03:13:06 PM
[quote author=SlapShot
A refresher ... CAPS was introduced because HTC, thru data and research, came to the conclusion that a single arena, with the current numbers logging into a single arena, had reached and surpassed a saturation point to which the community can survive together in a "heathy" manner. It had become, what they described as a "slumfest", and it was costing them real money.

[/quote]

I never saw a "Slumfest" in any of the arenas,  So I don't understand what that really means. nor to I understand what "healthy manner " means and how it relates to business dollars.   But I do understand customers leaving the game and a business haveing to respond.  I think perhaps the economy has more to do with it then CAPS.  But I'm sure that  HiTech does not publishes their books so you and I really don't know.  I fly on Tuesday nights so I don't have to worry about CAPs and I guess the Slumfest doesn't exists on Tuesday nights. Nothing that happens on tuesday night drives away paying customers.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Shuffler on August 06, 2010, 03:14:20 PM
If there was a problem and you didn't experience it..... you may have been the problem  :neener:
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: SlapShot on August 06, 2010, 03:15:26 PM
i have no problem with caps in general, but you just CAN'T have fights on the Trinity or Doughnut maps with 53 people.

I have flown in MW with a total of 30 people and have had some of the best fights and best times in AH with that amount of people.

I fly in blue more than I do in orange, and I never have a problem finding a fight. Some how I manage to maintain a 2:1 or 3:1 K/D ratio and almost always a 10 kills/hour average in the Blue arena.

I remember playing AHI when there were only 100+ people on at prime time ... and the fights/battles back then were epic in relation to what I have experienced in the past 3 or 4 years.

If you can't find fights in any of these arenas,  you need to look closer at how you are playing the game and what you will do to create or enter a fight.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Traveler on August 06, 2010, 03:15:59 PM
Caps were a business decision taken to improve the quality of the game that was in decline and causing customers to leave.  HiTech as stated this as the reason in many threads if you took the time to search for the threads.  HiTech has also said that since the caps have been in place, business has improved and more new players have come aboard than what was previous before the caps.

So while you may feel they serve no purpose, HiTech feels they do.

ack-ack

I never said CAPS serve no purpose, I said they are not an issue on Tuesday nights.  I advised the OP to play on Tuesday nights when CAPS don't exists.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Traveler on August 06, 2010, 03:21:27 PM
If there was a problem and you didn't experience it..... you may have been the problem  :neener:

it must be you guys playing on other then Tuesday nights causing the problems.  You guys are the ones with the caps.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Nemisis on August 06, 2010, 03:22:21 PM
Oh, there are always a few airfights and sneak busting, but you can't really find GV fights because there is so much room for them to slip through. There are a few like me who will actually seek engagment when driving their panzer. But most seem to want to kill the hanger and ack, call in an M3 to take the base, and, that failing, slip away to land their camp  kills or the damage they've done.

Also, and I may just have bad luck on this, but fewer people in an arena tends to induce HO'ing in an attempt to end the fight quickly and get on with what you set out to do. I've seen people who make use of ACM only as a way to get nose on nose with you.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: SlapShot on August 06, 2010, 03:28:38 PM
[quote author=SlapShot
A refresher ... CAPS was introduced because HTC, thru data and research, came to the conclusion that a single arena, with the current numbers logging into a single arena, had reached and surpassed a saturation point to which the community can survive together in a "heathy" manner. It had become, what they described as a "slumfest", and it was costing them real money.



I never saw a "Slumfest" in any of the arenas,  So I don't understand what that really means. nor to I understand what "healthy manner " means and how it relates to business dollars.   But I do understand customers leaving the game and a business haveing to respond.  I think perhaps the economy has more to do with it then CAPS.  But I'm sure that  HiTech does not publishes their books so you and I really don't know.  I fly on Tuesday nights so I don't have to worry about CAPs and I guess the Slumfest doesn't exists on Tuesday nights. Nothing that happens on tuesday night drives away paying customers.

It doesn't matter what you and I saw ... the only thing that matters is what HiTech saw.

Stick 3 people in a 10 x 10 room for week ... At the same time stick 30 people in a 10 x 10 room for a week ... which room will experience a "social" meltdown first ?

That's what happened to the single arena ... people got real nasty to one another and that nastiness translated to driving new subscribers away from the game and I am sure that some of the people who had been here for years decided that they didn't like the environment anymore and packed their bags and left.

The economy has hit everything ... it had nothing to do with the introduction of CAPS ... HTC most likely does exit-type interviews and they saw something they didn't like. I would also think that they had logged on (incognito) and witnessed the ugliness themselves.

Like I noted in my prior post, I have been here since 2002. I first started with the MAW, a total of close to 60 members across 3 wings ... there are maybe 3 still active. I then joined the 13th TAS, with about 8 guys that flew this game since day 1 ... not one of them is left. I then joined the Blue Knights which had a dozen of so members ... there is only 2 or 3 of us flying now. The common denominator ... basically the "community" sucked and there were better things to do with their time.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: SlapShot on August 06, 2010, 03:34:32 PM
but fewer people in an arena tends to induce HO'ing in an attempt to end the fight quickly and get on with what you set out to do.

Wow ... that's a stretch.

How's this ... I would tend to believe that in an arena that has fewer people, HOing would be lessened because you wouldn't think that you need to take out the other guy as fast as you can before his 5 or 6 friends decide to jump into the fight.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Shuffler on August 06, 2010, 03:35:05 PM
It doesn't matter what you and I saw ... the only thing that matters is what HiTech saw.

Stick 3 people in a 10 x 10 room for week ... At the same time stick 30 people in a 10 x 10 room for a week ... which room will experience a "social" meltdown first ?


Slaps idea for a new reality show. Aces High House
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Nemisis on August 06, 2010, 03:50:45 PM
Like I said, maybe I'm just unlucky and happen to bump into the HO's. Luckly I'm usually able to dodge them with only a ping or 2 at most.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: SlapShot on August 06, 2010, 03:55:44 PM
Like I said, maybe I'm just unlucky and happen to bump into the HO's. Luckly I'm usually able to dodge them with only a ping or 2 at most.

99% of the people that I encounter attempt to HO ... 99.99% of the time I make them miss ... 98% of the time they die if they stick around.

I worry only when I merge with a guy and he doesn't HO.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 06, 2010, 04:20:49 PM
And if they improve his business then he will tell you where to shovel it for the removal of them. But i would like to see him sort out the problem i see when i first log on to Ace's and that is this      :-      Late War Pink Arena 264/200

Now couldn't it say this   Late War Pink Arena 264/270 ????????????????

As i believe that for new player's that seeing this will confuse them by them thinking hey wait a mo there's 264 player's in there but only 200 players allowed how come that's like that or they may think that there is space for another 64 player's.


Its just a thought like :)

What's why there should be a sticky thread explaining the arena cap system to help stem some of this confusion.  In most cases, the arena caps will refresh and update within a few minutes if you are that determined to enter Pink.  Otherwise, there is Blue that you can play in until there is enough free room on Pink to enter.  I've never had to wait more than 5 minutes to get into a full arena, usually just entering into Purple and exiting out is enough.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Traveler on August 06, 2010, 04:37:34 PM

HTC most likely does exit-type interviews and they saw something they didn't like.

I was forced to terminate my internet connection for 3 months because of the economy and when I shut down my account with AH there was no exit type interview.  I guess not as many have left the game because of the CAPS.  Although if CAPS is the best thing for the game, why is Tuesday night left open?  And Tuesday night is not the night with the fewest numbers.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Lusche on August 06, 2010, 04:42:17 PM
  Although if CAPS is the best thing for the game, why is Tuesday night left open? 

It's not been left open, it's been introduced after a long time of caps.


And Tuesday night is not the night with the fewest numbers.

Which one is?
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: grizz441 on August 06, 2010, 04:43:16 PM
Although if CAPS is the best thing for the game, why is Tuesday night left open?

It's a one night per week compromise for people who let the tears flow like the salmon of Capistrano on the bbs.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Traveler on August 06, 2010, 04:52:34 PM

That's what happened to the single arena ... people got real nasty to one another and that nastiness translated to driving new subscribers away from the game and I am sure that some of the people who had been here for years decided that they didn't like the environment anymore and packed their bags and left.

By people being real nasty, you mean people on the same side or channel 200 Smack talk?  If Peoples behavior was taking money out of Ht Techs pocket. I hope they were identified and removed from the environment permanently. 
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: grizz441 on August 06, 2010, 04:59:06 PM
That's what happened to the single arena ... people got real nasty to one another and that nastiness translated to driving new subscribers away from the game and I am sure that some of the people who had been here for years decided that they didn't like the environment anymore and packed their bags and left.

I don't buy this explanation at all.

I do however, buy the explanation that two 70% full arenas equals more fun for more people than one giant arena.  And two arenas, with relatively smaller fights than one massive arena, will provide more opportunities for new players to be successful.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Traveler on August 06, 2010, 04:59:34 PM
It's not been left open, it's been introduced after a long time of caps.
Why, Why no CAPS on Tuesday?  If CAPS is such a good thing for The Social  game play, what is different on Tuesday nights?  


Which one is?

For the few weeks that I checked it was Wed.  the Average was lower on Wed.  But that was over a year ago.  Have no idea today.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Lusche on August 06, 2010, 05:03:11 PM
Why, Why no CAPS on Tuesday?  If CAPS is such a good thing for The Social  game play, what is different on Tuesday nights?  


My guess: because one night per week doesn't hurt HTC as much as 7 days a week, while at the same time being an appeasement to folks like me ;)
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: SlapShot on August 06, 2010, 05:13:10 PM
I don't buy this explanation at all.

I do however, buy the explanation that two 70% full arenas equals more fun for more people than one giant arena.  And two arenas, with relatively smaller fights than one massive arena, will provide more opportunities for new players to be successful.

You don't have to buy it ... that's your prerogative ... They believed that the environment became toxic and nasty when it reached critical mass and that was driving new people away.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Lusche on August 06, 2010, 06:00:42 PM
You don't have to buy it ... that's your prerogative ... They believed that the environment became toxic and nasty when it reached critical mass and that was driving new people away.


I don't "buy" the toxic environment in the classical "nasty" sense. The were no more complains or insults on country or ch 200 than we have today. In fact, the most "toxic" and unfriendly environments I have ever flown in were the absolute low-number Early War and AvA arenas. If there ever was an "unhealthy" environment & gameplay, it was in the EW a few tours after the split.

What is being different that there is much less social positive interaction possible when numbers are getting too big. In a crowd, a single new person can easily feel being lost & lonely.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: grizz441 on August 06, 2010, 06:45:45 PM
You don't have to buy it ... that's your prerogative ... They believed that the environment became toxic and nasty when it reached critical mass and that was driving new people away.

Yeah, and I'm calling hogwash.  ;)
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Magnus on August 06, 2010, 11:02:59 PM
Last I knew I was a customer .... not working for HTC..... I understand arena caps.....But when there is an unease in the paying customers..... then you need to think about the service or the product your trying to sell. And to try improve & provide a good customer base service for the product. The word of mouth can always help or hinder your business.....Last I knew the customer is always right, regardless of what other customers think .... If you want to continue to sell the product to the buyer or customer, then the business need to look into switching their ways or make changes .... fear of losing customers. So if customers can't get onto Aces High II and have fun ... and they pay the bill .... what do you think the customer will do? ... leave and tell his friends not to join or buy the product..... because you can never get on Aces High II to fly or battle with them ... during their time in the evening or when ever they try to get together..... Next someone says: Bad customer service there at Aces High II / High Tech Creation they don't listen to the customers...... Next thing you here people say that game sucks .....etc..... Aces High II / HTC loses customers  ... can't pay the bills and closes doors. This should be a wake up call and ease the arena caps.... help the customers out, ease the arena caps to 400 for the late war arenas.  

This is suppose to be fun and a get away from the not so nice time in the real world.  :salute
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: BulletVI on August 06, 2010, 11:08:49 PM
Last I knew I was a customer .... not working for HTC..... I understand arena caps.....But when there is an unease in the paying customers..... then you need to think about the service or the product your trying to sell. And to try improve & provide a good customer base service for the product. The word of mouth can always help or hinder your business.....Last I knew the customer is always right, regardless of what other customers think .... If you want to continue to sell the product to the buyer or customer, then the business need to look into switching their ways or make changes .... fear of losing customers. So if customers can't get onto Aces High II and have fun ... and they pay the bill .... what do you think the customer will do? ... leave and tell his friends not to join or buy the product..... because you can never get on Aces High II to fly or battle with them ... during their time in the evening or when ever they try to together..... Next someone says: Bad customer service there at Aces High II / High Tech Creation they don't listen to the customers...... Next thing you here people say that game sucks .....etc..... Aces High II / HTC loses customers  ... can't pay the bills and closes doors. This should be a wake up call and ease the arena caps.... help the customers out, ease the arena caps to 400 for the late war arenas.  

Or if they only want the late war arenas to have around 200 player's when both reach those amounts why not start a third late war arena :) that only comes on line when one arena has 200 player's and is full. Even if there is some squad member's in the full arena and some arnt then they can tell each other hey we in late war red and its quiet want to come in its a simple answer to all this nonsense. :)
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Blooz on August 06, 2010, 11:17:58 PM
Last I knew I was a customer .... not working for HTC..... I understand arena caps.....But when there is an unease in the paying customers..... then you need to think about the service or the product your trying to sell. And to try improve & provide a good customer base service for the product. The word of mouth can always help or hinder your business.....Last I knew the customer is always right, regardless of what other customers think .... If you want to continue to sell the product to the buyer or customer, then the business need to look into switching their ways or make changes .... fear of losing customers. So if customers can't get onto Aces High II and have fun ... and they pay the bill .... what do you think the customer will do? ... leave and tell his friends not to join or buy the product..... because you can never get on Aces High II to fly or battle with them ... during their time in the evening or when ever they try to together..... Next someone says: Bad customer service there at Aces High II / High Tech Creation they don't listen to the customers...... Next thing you here people say that game sucks .....etc..... Aces High II / HTC loses customers  ... can't pay the bills and closes doors. This should be a wake up call and ease the arena caps.... help the customers out, ease the arena caps to 400 for the late war arenas.

Where you want to go, we've already been. The caps are necessary to fill the late war arenas evenly at US prime time. By your model, If you are customer #401 you get to play in the arena with 30 people in it. With the caps working, you get to play in an arena with 150 people in it instead of 30 because it forces the people to even the arena populations out. We won't do it ourselves so it was done for us. Learn to like it because until someone comes up with a better way, this is the way it's going to be. HTC knows better than to let the inmates run the asylum.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: SlapShot on August 07, 2010, 08:37:41 AM
But when there is an unease in the paying customers..... then you need to think about the service or the product your trying to sell. And to try improve & provide a good customer base service for the product.

That is the exact reason why we have CAPS.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: kvuo75 on August 07, 2010, 08:49:27 AM
That is the exact reason why we have CAPS.

someone post hitech's quote which says to the effect their job is to "give the customer what he wants, not necessarily what he says he wants" which can be 2 different things.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Blooz on August 07, 2010, 09:06:29 AM

And a final note. In the gameing world, you need to give the customer what he wants, not what he ask for. Because the 2 are vary rairly the same thing.

HiTech
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: SlapShot on August 07, 2010, 09:30:23 AM
Yeah, and I'm calling hogwash.  ;)

COndor06:

I would tend to see it as "you do not see the problem", regardless of what you think of the current solution.

The basic problem is all about the same thing you wish to promote, Having fun with friends.

My view is we had crossed a point where it became very difficult for a new person entering the game to make new friends.

Please do a search as for detailed resones I think this was so. But in a nut shell it amounts to ....

When you have to many people in 1 place pier presure no longer is a control on peoples behavior. Once pier pressure is no longer a control, people will start to exibit hostill behavior to eachother, (in esence overcrowding).

Because of the over crowding we had been forced to implement at lot of game changes (more police type force) to try to control the over crowding.

The arena became much less of a fun social place, then it had at other times.

The current change is an attempt at removing the over crowding and letting pier pressure back into the system.

With some time people will change there behavior back to a more social friendly enviorment.

If you understand the above, then the question becomes.
How do you spit a group of people while letting them maitain there current set of friends.

Our first attempt was as follows.

Lower arena caps,make arenas of slightly different game play (I.E EW/MW/LW) to see if people can be drawn off the old main population.

The first itteration drew some people to other arenas, but the force of wanting to go to the arena with the most players was to great. And hence to make 2 sustained 250 peek time arenas was not working, because no one wated to be the first into the empty arena.

While we contemplated a new solution we raised the caps back to 390. This still was not large enof to handle the people still wanting to go to the big arena.

So the current emplemtation is designed toward minimizing the time the 2nd arena is below critical mass.

I had hoped that also by always bumping the limit on the lower arena, people would relize that if the numbers were close to equal, the lower populated arena would be where they would next have the most people.

This at times keeps both arneas in a non full state, and hence, as you wish , you could always fly with your squad.

Also understand that  peoples behavior will only change over time. And in a few weeks it is well possible, that both arenas will allways have space to go play with your squad.


HiTech

I would think that "hostill" relates to "nasty" ... ;)
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: grizz441 on August 07, 2010, 10:21:20 AM
I would think that "hostill" relates to "nasty" ... ;)

I don't doubt that HiTech believes that, but it is unprovable and unscientific.  There is no basis to say that an arena of 450 players is more hostile than an arena of 250 players.

That being said, I think there are other perfectly valid and provable positive reasons to have the caps.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Ghastly on August 07, 2010, 12:56:55 PM
Like I said, maybe I'm just unlucky and happen to bump into the HO's. Luckly I'm usually able to dodge them with only a ping or 2 at most.

Nemesis, are you the guy that flies HurriIIC's at around 20K in the DA, or do I have my call signs mixed up?

<S>
 
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: AWwrgwy on August 07, 2010, 04:04:17 PM
I don't doubt that HiTech believes that, but it is unprovable and unscientific.  There is no basis to say that an arena of 450 players is more hostile than an arena of 250 players.

That being said, I think there are other perfectly valid and provable positive reasons to have the caps.

Studies in the effect of overpopulation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Calhoun):

Quote
He claimed that the bleak effects of overpopulation on rodents were a grim model for the future of the human race. During his studies, Calhoun coined the term "behavioral sink" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink) to describe aberrant behaviors in overcrowded population density situations and "beautiful ones” to describe passive individuals who withdrew from all social interaction.


No caps---> HTC losing players.  More than likely not retaining NEW players.

Caps---> Obviously HTC is happy.  $$$ maybe?

Do you really think they chose an arbitrary number for caps?


wrongway
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: grizz441 on August 07, 2010, 04:22:05 PM
Studies in the effect of overpopulation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Calhoun):


No caps---> HTC losing players.  More than likely not retaining NEW players.

Caps---> Obviously HTC is happy.  $$$ maybe?

The definition of 'overpopulation' is subjective in a video game.  In real life, overpopulation can be defined more objectively as it is directly correlative to the food supply.  As far as overpopulation in our game?  Well, lets see, the mega maps that HTC has decided to go with are big enough for a population of 1000+ players to fill up to where all fronts will have a fight, so I wouldn't call 500ish over crowded.  As far as a 500 player arena being more 'hostile' then a 250 person arena?  Hogwash.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: The Fugitive on August 07, 2010, 10:37:37 PM
The definition of 'overpopulation' is subjective in a video game.  In real life, overpopulation can be defined more objectively as it is directly correlative to the food supply.  As far as overpopulation in our game?  Well, lets see, the mega maps that HTC has decided to go with are big enough for a population of 1000+ players to fill up to where all fronts will have a fight, so I wouldn't call 500ish over crowded.  As far as a 500 player arena being more 'hostile' then a 250 person arena?  Hogwash.

Look at it this way, just as an example, 10% of those in the arena are Aholes (OK maybe I'm on the low side  :neener: ) In an arena of 250 thats 25 people, in an arena of 500 thats 50 people. You just double your chances of running into an Ahole.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: grizz441 on August 07, 2010, 10:45:23 PM
Look at it this way, just as an example, 10% of those in the arena are Aholes (OK maybe I'm on the low side  :neener: ) In an arena of 250 thats 25 people, in an arena of 500 thats 50 people. You just double your chances of running into an Ahole.

Check your math there fugitive.  :lol

25/250 is the same percentage as 50/500.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: guncrasher on August 07, 2010, 10:51:17 PM
I agree it is the same percentage but the number of >sss@@) doubles.  It has to do with numbers x number of beer consumed /eny.


Semp
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: The Fugitive on August 08, 2010, 08:40:38 AM
Check your math there fugitive.  :lol

25/250 is the same percentage as 50/500.


That's the point I'm trying to make. 10% is 10%, but by doubling the number of people in the arena you have also doubled the number of Aholes, there by giving you a better chance of running into them. This is one of the reasons HTC has to cut back the arena numbers. As the numbers increase in the arenas the "Ahole" density increases which is the "negative factor" that they are trying to tone down.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: grizz441 on August 08, 2010, 10:45:32 AM

That's the point I'm trying to make. 10% is 10%, but by doubling the number of people in the arena you have also doubled the number of Aholes, there by giving you a better chance of running into them. This is one of the reasons HTC has to cut back the arena numbers. As the numbers increase in the arenas the "Ahole" density increases which is the "negative factor" that they are trying to tone down.

I must be having a slow weekend because I still don't see how the density increases in your example.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Lusche on August 08, 2010, 10:48:06 AM
As the numbers increase in the arenas the "Ahole" density increases which is the "negative factor" that they are trying to tone down.

No it doesn't. The density is still the same, you are just increasing total numbers. ;)

And as I said earlier: The most toxic hostile environments I have ever found in Ah were LOW number arenas. Particularly EW, where many dolts went bigmouth on "ALL" channel who would have never dared to do that in the LW main.

I can only guess how many new players where instantly driven away by this, as many joined EW first, being the first arena on the list.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: The Fugitive on August 08, 2010, 10:59:45 AM
I must be having a slow weekend because I still don't see how the density increases in your example.

maybe I'm just using the wrong words. If there are 25 Aholes in the arena, I have a "chance" of running into, or having to deal with some of them. If there are 50 Aholes in the arena I have a much better chance of running into or having to deal with them. See what I mean?

Pick the most annoying guy you know in the game... the guy you squelch as soon as you log in. Even if he only represents 1% of the arena population, if the numbers hold true, 5X the arena population would make you have to squelch 5 guys as soon as you log on. It's still only 1% but now your annoyed by 5 guys instead of 1.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: grizz441 on August 08, 2010, 11:02:12 AM
maybe I'm just using the wrong words. If there are 25 Aholes in the arena, I have a "chance" of running into, or having to deal with some of them. If there are 50 Aholes in the arena I have a much better chance of running into or having to deal with them. See what I mean?

You have no better chance of running into him in the skies.  However if you are referring to having to listen to more bholes talk it up on 200, that's true.  But once again, that channel is detunable.  All the other channels are usually very mild, regardless of numbers.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: The Fugitive on August 08, 2010, 11:11:01 AM
Well having the radio channels detuned is a bit unrealistic don't you think? You can't tell me you have 200, country, and squad channel all detuned. You can't ask newbies to do that. They have questions, the wish to join in the fun, the wish to work with others to achieve a goal. Unfortunately the numbers I pointed out don't just pertain to 200. The are countrymen I can't stand on each country, I have had squadmates I couldn't stand.

The bad apples are there, and HTC can't do away with them. So he limits the "density" by spreading them out over a number of arenas. If I run out of squelch spots I can still change arenas. That's how he limits the negativity of some players/game play in his game.

Also as far as running into him in the sky, many a time I've run into some of the better sticks and keep going back to that area to try and get another fight....well more like a shot to "pick" them while they are busy  :neener: but the same holds true if you keep coming to an area where the same 5 guys do nothing but go for the HO while ganging you. No fun for me so I leave that area, now they are mad because nobody will "fight" them, I'm grumpy because there are no fights. Again negativity.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Lusche on August 08, 2010, 11:13:10 AM
Well having the radio channels detuned is a bit unrealistic don't you think? You can't tell me you have 200, country, and squad channel all detuned. You can't ask newbies to do that.

Newbies generally do not know about 200. Usually they start on HELP, then they move over to COUNTRY. It often takes a long time until they discover 200.

And I may point out that's the small number arenas that do have channel 1 "all" enabled...
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: grizz441 on August 08, 2010, 11:13:54 AM
The bad apples are there, and HTC can't do away with them. So he limits the "density" by spreading them out over a number of arenas. If I run out of squelch spots I can still change arenas. That's how he limits the negativity of some players/game play in his game.

Who's to say all the 'bad apples' won't find their way into Pink arena leaving it over densified with punks?  There's too many unknowns to make any sound conclusions about the relationship between players and 'arena nastiness'.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: The Fugitive on August 08, 2010, 11:17:08 AM
I'm sure there are no exact numbers, but you have to admit that by spreading them out or diluting the waters so to speak you have a better chance of missing the negative aspects and running into the more positive aspects.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Magnus on August 09, 2010, 10:13:58 AM
So a person could still run into 50 butt heads out of 250 in the one area. Or 50 out of 150...... since the arena has been capped at 7PM EST @ the 150 mark average. You might just got to the different area and find ..... 50 out of 80 .... hmmm.... So I would run into more chances of more butt heads in the lower area.  :huh
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Shuffler on August 09, 2010, 12:51:38 PM
So a person could still run into 50 butt heads out of 250 in the one area. Or 50 out of 150...... since the arena has been capped at 7PM EST @ the 150 mark average. You might just got to the different area and find ..... 50 out of 80 .... hmmm.... So I would run into more chances of more butt heads in the lower area.  :huh

It seems you don't have to go anywhere to run into one... :D
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Traveler on August 09, 2010, 01:36:30 PM
I'm sure there are no exact numbers, but you have to admit that by spreading them out or diluting the waters so to speak you have a better chance of missing the negative aspects and running into the more positive aspects.

are there so many bad apples that HiTech Creations must allow them to subscribe or go out of business if they were turned away?    Isn't bad behavior , just that, bad behavior and should be put out of the game.  When someone starts trouble in a popular crowed bar, they bounce the trouble maker,   they don’t  open a second bar and move half the population to it. 
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: RTHolmes on August 09, 2010, 01:40:41 PM
When someone starts trouble in a popular crowed bar, they bounce the trouble maker, they don’t open a second bar and move half the population to it.

:rofl
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Babalonian on August 09, 2010, 06:42:47 PM
Denying?  Exactly who's fault is that?  It's like whining about having season tickets to a sporting event because the matches don't meet your schedule.

Give me a break.

There are means for the individual to fix the problem.  Seems it's too difficult.

Where's my welfare check?
 :neener:


wrongway

de·ny  /dɪˈnaɪ/  [dih-nahy]
–verb (used with object), -nied, -ny·ing.
To withhold something from, or refuse to grant a request of.

Sorry it took me so long to reply, I worked 13 hours last friday (58 hours this week) and pulled 12 hours on sunday just so I could enjoy my Saturday at an airshow this weekend.  What did you do to be productive, gainfuly employed, show your support of our troops, and get outside to get some sun and fun this weekend?


Ooookkk...  So far off the mark for only one self-interpretation of a word I used, lol.   :D   Internet anonymity for a good laugh here too on the welfare comment, I'm probabley what you wish most of my generation was, I haven't been unemployed from fulltime in my life for more than two weeks since I was 18, through school and many, what the welfare office would consider, grevious injury and all.  When the sweet day of retirement eventualy comes, dang skippy I'll be asking for where my government check is and blaming your worthless children and grandchildren for being lazy and ungrateful because I will be uncapable anymore of carrying them on my individual back and the few others like me in this country.

And because I'm too busy working all day and too tired to have the patience of spamming my login information until eventualy 20-30 minutes later the one arena that has over a dozen of my squadies online in it to open up, I consider it a denial of service.  Yes I can play, but not with the same guys I always like to play with.  Yes I can find a fight to fight in, but it feels hollow compared to fighting along side you mates who you trust are watching out for you and who trust that you're always watching out for them.  Is this sup-par result and experience, that occurs to me on half of the any given weekday evenings, what I subcribed to this month and went through the effort of launching the game to play?  NO.

Yes, I know there are individual means for one to wait and then join an arena, I'm glad that you proudly admit you have so much of your time to spare and waste.  My problem is that I been waiting at work that past 10-14 hours to play and know that when I get home to request to participate in the one arena that has all my squadies in it and is locked that it will be denied, and with me wishing to go to bed anyways within an hour, I do not have ~20-30 minutes to spare spamming the loging screen and helping fillup the other arena while just attempting to have my intial request honored by HTC's servers.
Title: Re: Arena Cap stuff
Post by: Magnus on August 19, 2010, 09:53:34 AM
^^^^ Very well put Babalonian .... I agree completely  :aok

Quote
de·ny  /dɪˈnaɪ/  [dih-nahy]
–verb (used with object), -nied, -ny·ing.
To withhold something from, or refuse to grant a request of.

Sorry it took me so long to reply, I worked 13 hours last friday (58 hours this week) and pulled 12 hours on sunday just so I could enjoy my Saturday at an airshow this weekend.  What did you do to be productive, gainfuly employed, show your support of our troops, and get outside to get some sun and fun this weekend?


Ooookkk...  So far off the mark for only one self-interpretation of a word I used, lol.... Internet anonymity for a good laugh here too on the welfare comment, I'm probabley what you wish most of my generation was, I haven't been unemployed from fulltime in my life for more than two weeks since I was 18, through school and many, what the welfare office would consider, grevious injury and all.  When the sweet day of retirement eventualy comes, dang skippy I'll be asking for where my government check is and blaming your worthless children and grandchildren for being lazy and ungrateful because I will be uncapable anymore of carrying them on my individual back and the few others like me in this country.

And because I'm too busy working all day and too tired to have the patience of spamming my login information until eventualy 20-30 minutes later the one arena that has over a dozen of my squadies online in it to open up, I consider it a denial of service.  Yes I can play, but not with the same guys I always like to play with.  Yes I can find a fight to fight in, but it feels hollow compared to fighting along side you mates who you trust are watching out for you and who trust that you're always watching out for them.  Is this sup-par result and experience, that occurs to me on half of the any given weekday evenings, what I subcribed to this month and went through the effort of launching the game to play?  NO.

Yes, I know there are individual means for one to wait and then join an arena, I'm glad that you proudly admit you have so much of your time to spare and waste.  My problem is that I been waiting at work that past 10-14 hours to play and know that when I get home to request to participate in the one arena that has all my squadies in it and is locked that it will be denied, and with me wishing to go to bed anyways within an hour, I do not have ~20-30 minutes to spare spamming the loging screen and helping fillup the other arena while just attempting to have my intial request honored by HTC's servers.