Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Devil 505 on February 26, 2011, 06:35:07 PM
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An update of sorts on George Lucas' film about the Tuskegee Airmen.
http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/786103/where_is_george_lucas_red_tails.html
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I just read that Lucas himself is writing the script... after Jar Jar and the last Indiana Jones movie, I think he could screw up a wet dream.
He doesn't need to write the script, he is far better researching it.
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Terrible Director, bad script writer, okay story creator, good producer
Tronsky
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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0485985/
http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=54254
Written by George Lucas.
Starring: Cuba Gooding Jr, Terrence Howard, Method Man (wtf? lol).
Coincidentally, this will be the second time Terrence Howard has played a member of the 332nd. He played a 332nd pilot in the movie Hart's War.
And the second time for Cuba Gooding Jr as well... Of course playing in The Tuskegee Airmen.
And anything that has George Lucas in it.. expect awesome sfx.
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I'm REALLY hoping that they do this right. :pray
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We'll see, it'll depend on much Lucas is back seat directing...he's a great producer, and an okay writer but is terrible when it comes to screenplays, and awful at directing
It could end up a CGI soaked kiddie fest with german pilots stepping in crap while saying "Mesa gonna fly the 109..then BOOM! The mustangs are gonna do terrible...TERRRIBLE things to me...Mesa gettin' very very scared!"
Tronsky
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We'll see, it'll depend on much Lucas is back seat directing...he's a great producer, and an okay writer but is terrible when it comes to screenplays, and awful at directing
It could end up a CGI soaked kiddie fest with german pilots stepping in crap while saying "Mesa gonna fly the 109..then BOOM! The mustangs are gonna do terrible...TERRRIBLE things to me...Mesa gettin' very very scared!"
Tronsky
:rofl
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I highly suspect it will be full of false bravado, chest thumping, and Cuba Gooding making large ostentatious face grimaces.
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We'll see, it'll depend on much Lucas is back seat directing...he's a great producer, and an okay writer but is terrible when it comes to screenplays, and awful at directing
It could end up a CGI soaked kiddie fest with german pilots stepping in crap while saying "Mesa gonna fly the 109..then BOOM! The mustangs are gonna do terrible...TERRRIBLE things to me...Mesa gettin' very very scared!"
Tronsky
Anthony Hemingway is listed as the director.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0376006/#Director
He has done a few different episodes of some decent shows... True Blood, Battlestar Galactica :rock, and has some decent Assistant Director credits. This is his first major projector credited as the Director.
I highly suspect it will be full of false bravado, chest thumping, and Cuba Gooding making large ostentatious face grimaces.
Probably right. But still... a film with WWII aviation in it. I'm in. Who else has fast forwarded through Pearl Harbor just to watch the P40 vs Zero scenes? I don't care if they weren't ultra realistic. Still cool to watch.
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And anything that has George Lucas in it.. expect awesome sfx.
Only if cartoony and obvious CGI counts as "awesome sfx."
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Here is the trailers, looks good.
http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1810095581/video (http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1810095581/video)
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Here is the trailers, looks good.
http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1810095581/video (http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1810095581/video)
Trailer looks very very promising!
No sign in that trailer of the dreaded "Love Story".... :aok
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Trailer looks very very promising!
No sign in that trailer of the dreaded "Love Story".... :aok
God i hope there is not one. :furious
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I was expecting more…. The air scenes in the trailer look like Saturday morning cartoons.
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I say impressive.
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This looks great! :rock
Me in the theater: TURN UP THE VOLUME!!!
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Oh yeah...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/29/red-tails-trailer-and-release-date_n_913320.html
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This looks great! :rock
Me in the theater: TURN UP THE VOLUME!!!
lol that or i'll be yelling "check 6 " "look out for the HO"
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Holy shizzle!!!
Bout time!!!
If I were HTC, I"d be finding out when the ads are running on this movie and follow them up with a Aces High ad. PRONTO!!
Looks like it may be a real winner!!!!
Tuskagee AirMEN. :salute :salute :salute
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Wish the p51 in the game could loop like that to kill 262's.
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I highly suspect it will be full of false bravado, chest thumping, and Cuba Gooding making large ostentatious face grimaces.
Probably, but then again its a movie.
Trailer looks GREAT!!!!!
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damn just the trailer left me with a heavy heart...... :(
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Correct me on this, but is that emblem in the 109 correct? Looks like a backward SS emblem.
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp20/skbluestem/2011-07-29_1517.png)
Jg-3?
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp20/skbluestem/2011-07-29_1531.png)
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Probably, but then again its a movie.
Trailer looks GREAT!!!!!
I agree looks awesome
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Love the trailer. You always must remember that cgi and aircraft markings will look unrealistic because that is what the public is familiar with. The 109s look like they're from the Battle of Britain. That's because thats where the majority of people identify them from. There seem to be no 190s, because the 190 could be mistaken for an American aircraft in German markings, also because the 109 is much uglier, portraying that good bad guy look.
Hollywood will always do cartoonish cgi because it is exciting.
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Did the 332nd ever actually encounter 262s?
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Did the 332nd ever actually encounter 262s?
I think 2 or 3 332nd pilots got 262 kills
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Three pilots were given credit for one jet each on 24 March 1945, after 4 months without a kill.
http://www.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-070207-059.pdf
Somewhere, someone has insisted "yellow noses, dem 109s gotta have yellow noses." Emblem does indeed look like a mirrored SS death's head.
I wonder if the old "never lost a bomber" chestnut will be perpetuated...
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They got some of the first jet kills of the war.
Oh, and somebody wanna try to loop a Mustang like that and post the film? :) I say it can be done!
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Somewhere, someone has insisted "yellow noses, dem 109s gotta have yellow noses." Emblem does indeed look like a mirrored SS death's head.
Trying to remeber if some Jg group had the emblem. But it is safe to safe that they are "Gustav" 109, look 2x 20mm gondolas.
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp20/skbluestem/2011-07-29_1747.png)
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp20/skbluestem/2011-07-29_1745.png)
Thumsdown on the skin 262 and 109 look the same. Did not see any 190, 110, or 410.
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Looks like a CGI yuckfest.
My guess is it will do poorly at the box office and history/aircraft buffs (like many of us) will tear it to shreds.
When a trailer starts with "Inspired by real events" or some such disclaimer, I'm pretty well turned off.
I'm pretty bummed too. I was hoping for something more substantial than the re-hashed "We can fight gud too" theme.
Lucas is a dork and Cuba's "large, ostentatious face grimaces" (well said bodhi) are just annoying.
My opinion. :salute
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Looks like a CGI yuckfest.
My guess is it will do poorly at the box office and history/aircraft buffs (like many of us) will tear it to shreds.
When a trailer starts with "Inspired by real events" or some such disclaimer, I'm pretty well turned off.
I'm pretty bummed too. I was hoping for something more substantial than the re-hashed "We can fight gud too" theme.
Lucas is a dork and Cuba's "large, ostentatious face grimaces" (well said bodhi) are just annoying.
My opinion. :salute
That is the problem, Idiotwood do not do there reseach well.
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The air scenes in the trailer look like Saturday morning cartoons.
:headscratch:
Looks pretty damn good to me.
I'm not gonna get carried away with if the aircraft were perfectly represented, not after seeing so many old movies with T6 Texans as Zeros, grainy clips of the wrong aircraft entirely etc.
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:headscratch:
Looks pretty damn good to me.
I'm not gonna get carried away with if the aircraft were perfectly represented, not after seeing so many old movies with T6 Texans as Zeros, grainy clips of the wrong aircraft entirely etc.
While I mostly agree. The yellow noses are a little to much. There are plenty of distinct paint schemes for the 109 and 262, without having to resort to pure fiction. How much more effort would it have taken to get it right? Not much more I imagine, probably less.
Other than that, I'm sold. :aok
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Here is the trailers, looks good.
http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1810095581/video (http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1810095581/video)
I will rank this up there with Pearl Harbor.
In case you are wondering, that is in the "Complete and utter crap" ranking.
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I will rank this up there with Pearl Harbor.
In case you are wondering, that is in the "Complete and utter crap" ranking.
Amazing, did you go forward in time and watch the completed movie? If so, awesome! Also who wins the superbowl this year? I need to get on the phone to Vegas.
Oh, you don't have a time machine? I suppose judging something you haven't seen and acting pretentious is ok too. :aok
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I will rank this up there with Pearl Harbor.
In case you are wondering, that is in the "Complete and utter crap" ranking.
:lol
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I agree looks awesome
Maybe we could get together to go see it.
You're only about 30 minutes north of me.
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Maybe we could get together to go see it.
You're only about 30 minutes north of me.
that would be very cool :aok
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Ok, I'll go see this and you naysayers can enjoy the ridiculous black and white flag wavers from the 40's, that substitute spitfires as P-40's etc.
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Apparently the anal retentive will not enjoy this historicaly incorrect cartoon.
I will!!!! :rock
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Amazing, did you go forward in time and watch the completed movie? If so, awesome! Also who wins the superbowl this year? I need to get on the phone to Vegas.
Oh, you don't have a time machine? I suppose judging something you haven't seen and acting pretentious is ok too. :aok
The highlights appeared to be mostly embellishment. That is crap. I need not see anymore. If you want to water down your version of history with second rate entertainment, have at it.
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The highlights appeared to be mostly embellishment. That is crap. I need not see anymore. If you want to water down your version of history with second rate entertainment, have at it.
Most war movies are embellished versions of history.
They ARE entertainment for some of us less intelligent mindless masses.
We're really stupid, and we love being "duped" by Hollywood.
Its fun.
I'll be there wearing a light up dunce cap and a smile. :D
Second rate entertainment indeed.
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:x :x :x
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpA6TC0T_Lw
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:x :x :x
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpA6TC0T_Lw
Funny reading the comments on that borad.
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maybe Hitech should get in touch with George or some cinema chains and get some advertising up to go along with this movie.
a screen still before or after the movie might whip up some American patriotism.
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The highlights appeared to be mostly embellishment. That is crap. I need not see anymore. If you want to water down your version of history with second rate entertainment, have at it.
Jeeze, you sound like a fun guy. Like my buddy who had nothing good to say about Saving Private Ryan because in reality depression era kids wouldn't have had as good a teeth as those actors did.
Me, I can get my history from books and still enjoy those visuals and special effects that look more like really being there than anything I'm likely to see anytime soon.
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If only the 8th Air Force was flying out of Italy. Seems to me it was the 15th. Note the bombers being escorted are all in 8th AF Paint. ARGGGGGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!
You'd think the CGI folks could have taken the time to get the markings at least close to correct. The LW birds markings have already been commented on I see.
That and the pre basketball/football/ or whatever game chant was way over the top. I can just imagine Benjamin Davis leading one of those with his pilots :rolleyes:
I hate what Hollywood does to history!
All I can hope now is that it will at least get folks to read a book and find out the real history.
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2:10 in the trailer killed it for me, George Lucas must watch Dogfights.
I thought I saw a 109F in there too....
You know, despite all the threads about how that move is impossible, with enough throttle control I can make the K4 do just about anything, including some weird stall turns. I take that above comment back after thinking about things I've done while in a stall.
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If only the 8th Air Force was flying out of Italy. Seems to me it was the 15th. Note the bombers being escorted are all in 8th AF Paint. ARGGGGGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!
I was wondering if the bombers where part of the 8th. You are correct, 15th was in Italy. Another thing I did not see are not B-24s. Even thou there were six BGs of B-17, 15th was dominated by 12 BGs of B-24.
Three good point i see so far:
1) Micheal Bay did not direct the movie.
2) no love story dominate the whole thing.
3) Hopfally, their story is getting you for people to learn and understand.
It could be better if Steven Spielberg directed it, but we will take what we have. I would like to see Spielberg do a movie of WWII air battle, some along the line on a JG group.
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If only the 8th Air Force was flying out of Italy. Seems to me it was the 15th. Note the bombers being escorted are all in 8th AF Paint. ARGGGGGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!
You'd think the CGI folks could have taken the time to get the markings at least close to correct. The LW birds markings have already been commented on I see.
That and the pre basketball/football/ or whatever game chant was way over the top. I can just imagine Benjamin Davis leading one of those with his pilots :rolleyes:
I hate what Hollywood does to history!
All I can hope now is that it will at least get folks to read a book and find out the real history.
I understand where you're coming from. That being said, it's not a documentary. I'll go see it for the entertainment value. Cmon guys, it's a movie about airplanes... We don't get many of them, and until I see it and verify that I wasted my money, I'm going to look forward to it. Again, we don't know what the script or final effects will be like. Give it a chance, eh?
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I just wish someone could make a movie about "the blonde knight of germany"(bubi hartman) or "the star of africa"(Hans-Joachim Marseille), or Heinz Bar
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd313/natorino/cobrajet.jpg)
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Maybe Lucas should have checked with all the experts on this BB/game......... :devil :D :bolt:
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Maybe Lucas should have checked with all the experts on this BB/game......... :devil :D :bolt:
That would have been better then not checking with ANY experts at all... :bolt:
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It's enough for me that the plane types are reasonably correct. Inaccurate paint schemes and markings aren't something that most people, even here, are going to pay attention too.
As hated as Pearl Harbor was, it still had the coolest looking air combat scenes I've seen to date.
Iv'e read plenty of books and watched umpteen different documentaries
Now I want to see lot's of photo realistic planes dogfighting all over the place.
I'm looking forward to this one.
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has anybody seen this movie thats coming out. :O :O :O
http://www.bet.com/news/celebrities/2011/07/30/trailer-for-tuskegee-airmen-film-red-tails-premieres.html
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Nope, haven't heard about it. :uhoh
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Cuba Gooding's 2nd time around as a Red Tail.
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Two threads about this already.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,317499.0.html
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,316600.0.html
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A little late on the trigger of this one sir. :airplane:
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I'm very excite about this movie
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Now I want to see lot's of photo realistic planes dogfighting all over the place.
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But you won't see any of that.
You'll see a bunch of CGI fighter planes coming within 10 feet of bomber wings.
If you look closely you'll see a young Anakin Skywalker in blackface.
$20 says that Cuba Gooding Jr. starts weeping like a girl. (You owe me 50 if it happens during the love scene with the white broad.)
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I understand where you're coming from. That being said, it's not a documentary. I'll go see it for the entertainment value. Cmon guys, it's a movie about airplanes... We don't get many of them, and until I see it and verify that I wasted my money, I'm going to look forward to it. Again, we don't know what the script or final effects will be like. Give it a chance, eh?
True - films are generally made for the average movie goer, not for history buffs but that doesn't mean some film makers don't try their best to be as close as they can be...sure a real Tiger in SPR would've been great but Spielberg appreciates the history and tried his best imo...whereas Michael Bay was just lazy.
I think the trailer was okay - I also think theres maybe an argument about the prevalence of the B-17's & absent B-24's, but thats only based off a 2min trailer.
As long as its more Memphis Belle & 12 O'clock High, and less Flyboys I'm hopeful
Tronsky
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I hope it will be an interessting Movie but the trailer shows to much CGI Imho
especialy the flightscenes, its like watching the trailer for the next PS3 Flight shooter :/
that feeling comes because the way the camera moves, ie following a plane like in games.
The Movie Battle of Britain (1969) the flight scenes there still looking by far much better.
..bla bla...well, better a new ww2 movie then none ;)
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Cuba Gooding's 2nd time around as a Red Tail.
the first being in 'whatshisname's war' with Bruce willis in it?
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Looks great. I even saw some ME262's in the trailer. :O
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Whatever... looks like it should have a parental warning label for AH 'pilots' to get their cgi fix on :)
I'll hit the theater for this one
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Watch, we will see a massive increase of 51's trying todo that move o the 262
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I will skip this one
Reeks of political messages
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the first being in 'whatshisname's war' with Bruce willis in it?
No, in Tuskegee Airmen (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=18&ved=0CKUBEBYwEQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.imdb.com%2Ftitle%2Ftt0114745%2F&ei=-d01Tuj8Nc22tgeQ7ZWHDQ&usg=AFQjCNGr2hFTcN0WC4UXUpKBfSAGcSr0fA&sig2=yWqukh8AAFv4fm-FBa6jxw)
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1st one with Cuba Gooding jr
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tuskegee_Airmen
Edit: Fugi beat me to it.
I will skip this one
Reeks of political messages
I will ignore the political messages and any historical inaccuracies and enjoy the visual effects.
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If the movie draws attention to the heroism and courage of the pilots of WWII and elsewhere, if it gets anyone enthused to look at the history of these Airmen at all, if it simply does service to those who fought and died, it will be a success. It is easy to pick something apart, nothing can be that historically correct, and get the audience in, to pay for the effort. My hats off to all of those who took the time and effort to bring this to the big screen! i will be watching it, CGI and all, with a big smile on my face :)
:aok :aok
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If the movie draws attention to the heroism and courage of the pilots of WWII and elsewhere, if it gets anyone enthused to look at the history of these Airmen at all, if it simply does service to those who fought and died, it will be a success. It is easy to pick something apart, nothing can be that historically correct, and get the audience in, to pay for the effort. My hats off to all of those who took the time and effort to bring this to the big screen! i will be watching it, CGI and all, with a big smile on my face :)
:aok :aok
^^^^^
'Inspired by' does not mean historically accurate. Chill out and enjoy the ride folks
To the Red Tails :salute
:cheers:
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So to sum up this thread so far:
A bunch of biggest WW2 aircraft enthusiasts in all of the internet aren't going to watch this movie about WW2 aircraft and their pilots because the CGI paint jobs don't meet their expectations, and the black actors don't behave like they did in the movie Glory.
K.
I'll let you know if the movie is any good after I see it on opening night.
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Most war movies are embellished versions of history.
They ARE entertainment for some of us less intelligent mindless masses.
We're really stupid, and we love being "duped" by Hollywood.
Its fun.
I'll be there wearing a light up dunce cap and a smile. :D
Second rate entertainment indeed.
Thanks for admitting your level of intellect. It is duly noted.
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Jeeze, you sound like a fun guy. Like my buddy who had nothing good to say about Saving Private Ryan because in reality depression era kids wouldn't have had as good a teeth as those actors did.
Me, I can get my history from books and still enjoy those visuals and special effects that look more like really being there than anything I'm likely to see anytime soon.
Sadly, you mentality is becoming prevalent. It's good enough is probably your motto, right?
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Sadly, you mentality is becoming prevalent. It's good enough is probably your motto, right?
No, but since I have no control over what is produced, I will set aside the BS in order to watch some cool visuals involving WW2 aircraft.
We get so very little of that.
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No, in Tuskegee Airmen (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=18&ved=0CKUBEBYwEQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.imdb.com%2Ftitle%2Ftt0114745%2F&ei=-d01Tuj8Nc22tgeQ7ZWHDQ&usg=AFQjCNGr2hFTcN0WC4UXUpKBfSAGcSr0fA&sig2=yWqukh8AAFv4fm-FBa6jxw)
I will take a look at it.
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Just as long as they don't perpetuate the "never lost a bomber" myth I'll be on with it.
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Wish the p51 in the game could loop like that to kill 262's.
I wish the 262 could ROLL like the one ine the trailers!
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Just as long as they don't perpetuate the "never lost a bomber" myth I'll be on with it.
They meaning the movie guys? The Tuskegee Vets do not make that claim.
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Did anyone notice that the P51 actually flips around on a 109, then the screen changes to show a 262 in flames?
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I will take a look at it.
It's cheesy but it has WW2 airplanes so it's worth watching once. :D
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Watch, we will see a massive increase of 51's trying todo that move o the 262
that's supposed to be the one and only candelaria maneuver on a (109). its not a 262 the next cut is a burning 262. two different points in the film.
Political messages? :headscratch:
noticed... are all those JG units true markings? it looks it
also looks like they may actually put realistic tactics used by the fighters into the movie :ahand
but hey you cant tell a book by its cover guys. wait till it comes out before you say its bad <S>
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Looks good and keep in mind that a trailer is always just a bunch of segments that have been cut and pasted from all parts of the movie in order to make the trailer look exciting.
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keep in mind that a trailer is always just a bunch of segments that have been cut and pasted from all parts of the movie in order to make the trailer look exciting.
:aok you went to Film School didn't you?
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No but I have seen a lot of terrible trailers for good films.
Recently I suggested vTROOPER watch Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. He's currently getting his law enforcement degree at Pig U. and I thought that might help him appreciate it on an extra level. I looked up the trailer to send him a link and thought to myself.... Wow this trailer really sucks and doesn't make the film look good at all.
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still, it was a good suggestion to make :cool:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-P0yBfnKJ0_A/TX2HHrR-9rI/AAAAAAAAABA/ibOh7I07GgU/s1600/16432_512x288_manicured__JD9zo3uMwk%252BqESsOvvI3Nw.jpg)
"move confidently into their midst"
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They meaning the movie guys? The Tuskegee Vets do not make that claim.
The movie guys. The last Tuskegee movie made a point of mentioning it too. With the exception of this BBS's population most people still believe it.
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still, it was a good suggestion to make :cool:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-P0yBfnKJ0_A/TX2HHrR-9rI/AAAAAAAAABA/ibOh7I07GgU/s1600/16432_512x288_manicured__JD9zo3uMwk%252BqESsOvvI3Nw.jpg)
"move confidently into their midst"
awesome Movie
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Trailer looks good to me. If your standard is 100% historical accuracy, you're probably eliminating the likelyhood you'll ever allow yourself to watch much of anything on TV or the movie screen again, ever, apart from a handful of documentaries.
Face it... the movie is there to tell a story to an audience that is composed 99% of people who know ZERO about WWII, it's aircraft, or the men who faught. Are they gonna get things wrong? Sure. Would it be just peachy if they got everything 100% correct? Sure.
Ultimately, does that really matter?
Well, if they were trying to pass the movie off as a 100% true, historically correct account of specific events, then Yeh, I'd say it would matter.
But they aren't.
So chill, and enjoy what looks to be a pretty awesome movie. :aok
:salute RedTails
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I just wish someone could make a movie about "the blonde knight of germany"(bubi hartman) or "the star of africa"(Hans-Joachim Marseille), or Heinz Bar
http://www.amazon.com/Star-Africa-Joachim-Hansen/dp/B000JLGGSU
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If only the 8th Air Force was flying out of Italy. Seems to me it was the 15th. Note the bombers being escorted are all in 8th AF Paint. ARGGGGGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!
Yeah I picked up on the "Triangle L" right away!
Its amazing something like that got through the process... oh wait.. its Hollywood.
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Got this info from another BBS regarding the movie The Dam Busters.
"Work on a remake of The Dam Busters, produced by Peter Jackson (Lord of the Rings Trilogy and forthcoming The Hobbit) and directed by first time director Christian Rivers, began production in 2008. Jackson said in the mid-1990s that he became interested in remaking the 1954 film, but found that the rights had been bought by Mel Gibson. In 2004, Jackson was contacted by his agent, who said Gibson had dropped the rights. The rights were purchased by Sir David Frost from the Brickhill family in 2005. Stephen Fry is writing the script of the film. It will be distributed by Universal Pictures and StudioCanal. Filming was planned to commence in early 2009, on a budget of USD 40 million, although no project-specific filming had begun as of May 2009. Weta Workshop is making the models and special effects for the film and have made 10 life size Lancaster bombers. The last living pilot of the strike team, Les Munro, joined the production crew in Masterton as technical adviser. Jackson will also use newly declassified War Office documents to ensure the authenticity of the film.
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Got this info from another BBS regarding the movie The Dam Busters.
Here's the trailer they just released... I'm pretty excited.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKHc-U2FNHk
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Here's the trailer they just released... I'm pretty excited.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKHc-U2FNHk
jeeze, I fell for it.
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Here's the trailer they just released... I'm pretty excited.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKHc-U2FNHk
:rofl
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I'm in automatically if it's a movie with fighter planes, cowboys, or baseball players.
Like the proverbial perfect country song, my perfect movie would include all the above, and to be completely honest, Sasha Grey.
HONK!
Gooss
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Uh there was 1 movie with cowboys and fighter planes released in the 80's I think.
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Yeah I picked up on the "Triangle L" right away!
Its amazing something like that got through the process... oh wait.. its Hollywood.
OTOH, the markings for the titular Mustangs seem to be generally correct. And at least show them initially flying P-40s. Compare the HBO movie where they're flying P-51Ds in AFRICA. Or Memphis Belle, which shows P-51Ds. In May 1943. That didn't have the range to stay with the bombers.
I'd say wait until we have a better context of what we're seeing than a trailer. Those 8th AF B-17s might be a part of a "general condition of the Air War in Europe" opening montage, for all we know.
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I'd say wait until we have a better context of what we're seeing than a trailer. Those 8th AF B-17s might be a part of a "general condition of the Air War in Europe" opening montage, for all we know.
I have to disagree, the yellow noses on the German aircraft indicates that the graphics studio decided on aircraft schemes based on public association of aircraft and paint scheme. Therefore you have 8th AF B-17s in Italy, and yellow nosed Messerschmitts.
Please keep in mind, this is nitpicking on my part. I can't wait to see this movie. I hope that it will be commercial success. I hope that it inspires more intrest in WW2 for the mass public. After all, that it the target audience. Not us.
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I have to disagree, the yellow noses on the German aircraft indicates that the graphics studio decided on aircraft schemes based on public association of aircraft and paint scheme. Therefore you have 8th AF B-17s in Italy, and yellow nosed Messerschmitts.
Please keep in mind, this is nitpicking on my part. I can't wait to see this movie. I hope that it will be commercial success. I hope that it inspires more intrest in WW2 for the mass public. After all, that it the target audience. Not us.
They really do need to remake your movie Cool Hand ;)
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They really do need to remake your movie Cool Hand ;)
Yeah they do.
At least the movie got the right squadron, VA-196.
Too bad they can't clone William Defoe to do a remake. He was perfect for Tiger Cole.
While we're cloning, Tom Berringer would be a good Grafton.
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I will rank this up there with Pearl Harbor.
In case you are wondering, that is in the "Complete and utter crap" ranking.
Amen to that sir! I just watched "Tora Tora Tora" this past week :aok One of the better made war movies in my opinion.
"Pearl Harbor" on the other hand was just nonsense.
+1 for Willem Defoe...."Lay it in on me Sandy. I'd do it for you"...Flight of the Intruder
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+1 for Willem Defoe...."Lay it in on me Sandy. I'd do it for you"...Flight of the Intruder
Better line from Cole to Grafton. "If you turned out to be a candy-ass, I was going to ask for a new pilot. But, you'll do."
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Just for giggles last night I watched the trailer again and used Hypersnap to get some captures to look more closely at the detail.
First one. We have an entire formation of 8th AF OD/Gray B17Fs being escorted by 15th AF marked P51Ds. Never happened. Show me a photo of 8th AF B17Fs being escorted by 8th AF P51Ds and I'll tell you it's a fake. Should be G model 17s and obviously not 8th AF marked.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap1-30.jpg)
109 attacking the B17Fs. Interesting to see all the kill markings on the fuselage of the 109. Thought LW practice was to put them on the rudder :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap8-9.jpg)
Kudos to the folks who outfitted the pilots. It's a good mix of RAF and USAAF issue stuff which is correct. Do note all the 51s have postwar uncuffed Hamilton standard props.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap3-31.jpg)
All 8th AF B17Gs now. Clearly it was only one Bomb Group that was ever escorted too. Triangle L is the 381st BG
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap4-24.jpg)
The 332nd gets new P51s! Oops, all P51D-5s without the dorsal fin fillet. The 332nd got P51Cs. When they got D models it was after the addition of the fin fillet. Oh well :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap5-25.jpg)
And here we are again with the now red tailed 51Ds escorting the 381st. Not a silver B17G to be seen although this would have to be the last half of 44 or early 45.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap6-16.jpg)
Here come those yellow tailed 262s! At least the 17s are finally silver :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap9-9.jpg)
And last but not least, that incredible move by the 51 to shoot the 262...although it turns out it's a 109G and the 262 bit was spliced in to the trailer and appeared to be what the 51 got with his fancy move. Combat flaps and lots of rudder on that 51.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap10-7.jpg)
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Better line from Cole to Grafton. "If you turned out to be a candy-ass, I was going to ask for a new pilot. But, you'll do."
"Usually I'm gabby but I sat on this one" :D
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Just for giggles last night I watched the trailer again and used Hypersnap to get some captures to look more closely at the detail.
First one. We have an entire formation of 8th AF OD/Gray B17Fs being escorted by 15th AF marked P51Ds. Never happened. Show me a photo of 8th AF B17Fs being escorted by 8th AF P51Ds and I'll tell you it's a fake. Should be G model 17s and obviously not 8th AF marked.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap1-30.jpg)
109 attacking the B17Fs. Interesting to see all the kill markings on the fuselage of the 109. Thought LW practice was to put them on the rudder :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap8-9.jpg)
Kudos to the folks who outfitted the pilots. It's a good mix of RAF and USAAF issue stuff which is correct. Do note all the 51s have postwar uncuffed Hamilton standard props.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap3-31.jpg)
All 8th AF B17Gs now. Clearly it was only one Bomb Group that was ever escorted too. Triangle L is the 381st BG
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap4-24.jpg)
The 332nd gets new P51s! Oops, all P51D-5s without the dorsal fin fillet. The 332nd got P51Cs. When they got D models it was after the addition of the fin fillet. Oh well :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap5-25.jpg)
And here we are again with the now red tailed 51Ds escorting the 381st. Not a silver B17G to be seen although this would have to be the last half of 44 or early 45.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap6-16.jpg)
Here come those yellow tailed 262s! At least the 17s are finally silver :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap9-9.jpg)
And last but not least, that incredible move by the 51 to shoot the 262...although it turns out it's a 109G and the 262 bit was spliced in to the trailer and appeared to be what the 51 got with his fancy move. Combat flaps and lots of rudder on that 51.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap10-7.jpg)
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok that is awsome
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It seems clear that the film makers saw all the Toni Frissell images of the 332nd. This one had to have helped with the image I posted above. Guy in the center with an RAF type D flying helmet. The others in USAAF A-11 helmets. Guy on the right has an RAF Mae West. Classic fighter pilot look
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/13263u.jpg)
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ehhhhh, red X doc
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Fixed the red X :)
Kinda think the briefing scene was inspired by this one.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/news_10292007_1.jpg)
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Somebody contact Hollywood and tell them they need to check with the AH subscriber base before they screw up another potentially good movie.
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Somebody contact Hollywood and tell them they need to check with the AH subscriber base before they screw up another potentially good movie.
The biggest thing that they scew up the most is the bomber skin.
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The moive looks amazing. I didn't even notice skins :D muchless care :p
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For those of you who haven't seen it, the trailer for the George Lucas film "Red Tails" is out. It is awesome. it can be seen at www.fandango.com
Tee
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Been in the o'club for like a week now
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http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,317499.0.html
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,307572.0.html
:aok
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LOL now there are 4 threads.
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meh
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That movie looks like one of the best I have seen previews for in a while.
Don't look @ production details.
Look @ the story.
I am proud to say that the red tails squad leader was born and raised in the same place I was. Makes me feel good to see someone trying to tell the tale.
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Looks like an amazing movie and its about time that the Tuskegee Boys get some of the Respect and thanks they deserve. Good Post Tee, I never even knew about this film til now! :aok
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I am not a movie theater person.
I think I'll be at opening night for this movie.
:salute Tuskegee airmen
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and its about time that the Tuskegee Boys get some of the Respect and thanks they deserve.
:confused: They already made a Tuskegee movie and at least 2 of the stars in this one were in that one!
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Honestly I cringe every time Hollywood comes out with a new war movie. Still gun-shy after Pearl Harbor.
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We need a movie about the Harlem Hellfighters now. The 369th Infantry Regiment
"The Germans dubbed the unit the "Hellfighters," because in 191 days of duty at the front they never had any men captured nor ground taken. Almost one-third of the unit died in combat."
This is kind of like the Red Tailsseeing as how they didn't lose one bomber under their command. Starting to see a pattern here.
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:confused: They already made a Tuskegee movie and at least 2 of the stars in this one were in that one!
I know about that one, but this one looks like it will draw the crowds it should and really show people what those boys did for this country when so many did not want them to fight!
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This is kind of like the Red Tailsseeing as how they didn't lose one bomber under their command.
myth :aok
"A good record of protecting U.S. bombers, losing only 25 on hundreds of missions"
"Throughout July, and through October of 1944, the Redtails flew countless missions, usually bomber escorts. Sometimes they shot down German aircraft, and began to build a respectable Group tally. Less often, they lost one of their own;
but they never lost a bomber.
(That last claim, which circulated for years, was eventually discredited. The 332nd lost 25 bombers.)
At least 25 bombers being escorted by the Tuskegee Airmen over Europe during World War II were shot down by enemy aircraft, according to a new Air Force report. The report contradicts the legend that the famed black aviators never lost a plane to fire from enemy aircraft. But historian William Holton said the discovery of lost bombers doesn't tarnish the unit's record."
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I know about that one, but this one looks like it will draw the crowds it should and really show people what those boys did for this country when so many did not want them to fight!
This one does look better.
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:O :O :O
Looks to be a great film...cant wait.
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This one does look better.
Looks are one thing. Sticking to historical facts is another. Hollywood doesn't have a good record of doing that. I'm sure they will beat the political correctness drums on this one.
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hat it is,
Looks are one thing. Sticking to historical facts is another. Hollywood doesn't have a good record of doing that. I'm sure they will beat the political correctness drums on this one.
I don't know about that. Hollywood has changed a bit in the last 15 years. The ability for small time movie makers to make quality movies has raised the bar a bit on the moguls. With technology these days, small timers are giving the Hollywood a run for its money. If some kid with a camera is willing to tell it like it is, Hollywood has little choice but to push their limits or they risk losing a modern audience. I bet they surprise us.
As for sticking to the historical facts, that is something that is easier said than done. Some historians will tell you it's better that a movie get made with discrepancies than not get made at all. At least people are getting introduced to obscure pieces of history that hopefully drives them to learn the reality.
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I'm not expecting total historical accuracy and given the story, some political correctness is bound to seep in, however....
Some historians will tell you it's better that a movie get made with discrepancies than not get made at all. At least people are getting introduced to obscure pieces of history that hopefully drives them to learn the reality.
+1
And at least we will get to see some cool aerial scenes.
Even with incorrect paint schemes etc, it's worth it to me.
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I don't know about that. Hollywood has changed a bit in the last 15 years. The ability for small time movie makers to make quality movies has raised the bar a bit on the moguls. With technology these days, small timers are giving the Hollywood a run for its money.
IF that were true we would see ALOT more original movies coming out of Hollywood, but we aren't seeing them. We are seeing remakes far more than anything new and the few new movies that are coming out aren't very good.
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IF that were true we would see ALOT more original movies coming out of Hollywood, but we aren't seeing them. We are seeing remakes far more than anything new and the few new movies that are coming out aren't very good.
You should define your idea of original. Ive done some reading on the movie business, and "original" has NEVER been their first priority. Going all the way back to beginning of film making, the majority of films have and always will be adaptations of literature and other movies. You would probably be amazed at how many of your favorite films were based on another movie.
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Just came across a query on the TA shooting down 2 SAAF Dakotas. Don't think that will be in the movie. :devil
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You should define your idea of original. Ive done some reading on the movie business, and "original" has NEVER been their first priority. Going all the way back to beginning of film making, the majority of films have and always will be adaptations of literature and other movies. You would probably be amazed at how many of your favorite films were based on another movie.
The Godfather, Schindler's List, One flew over the cuckoo's nest, Star Wars, Jaws, Raider's of the Lost Ark, Silence of the Lambs, Forest Gump, Dr. Strangelove, Citizen Kane, Alien, Lawerence of Arabis, etc., etc., etc.
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The Godfather, Schindler's List, One flew over the cuckoo's nest, Star Wars, Jaws, Raider's of the Lost Ark, Silence of the Lambs, Forest Gump, Dr. Strangelove, Citizen Kane, Alien, Lawerence of Arabis, etc., etc., etc.
Most of those you listed are in fact adaptations of novels. Alien, at its core is just Jaws on a space ship.
Dont get me wrong, all the titles you named are fantastic films, but hardly "original".
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Just came across a query on the TA shooting down 2 SAAF Dakotas. Don't think that will be in the movie. :devil
And the source for that one is? Sounds like someone made that up. Don't think apartheid fight was really on the radar back then. Think I saw the same post on another board. Someone heard from someone. Need to do better then that as a source :)
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*nice* air to air stuff .. the 262 kill by the Stang was very cool ..nice gritty 'real' feel to all of the air to air stuff.
note: not a single shiny plane .. paint jobs that look 'used' .. they got the wartime look right, IMHO.
-Frank aka GE
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What was the last movie that Lucas wrote that wasn't a steaming pile? I'm drawing a complete blank here.
-Sik
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Most of those you listed are in fact adaptations of novels. Alien, at its core is just Jaws on a space ship.
Dont get me wrong, all the titles you named are fantastic films, but hardly "original".
Original movies, yes. Never said they weren't based off of books. My point is that Hollywood doesn't want to take any risks anymore. They know that they will sell enough tickets to people that will go and watch the remake to justify making it. However since you brought it up, look at all the great books that have been written and not a single movie has been made.
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All valid points, but I don't consider an adaptation of a novel to be "original".
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All valid points, but I don't consider an adaptation of a novel to be "original".
It is if its the first movie ever made of that book.
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http://www.ropeofsilicon.com/article/pics-poster-trailer-george-lucas-produced-red-tails
Just released today.
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I don't care what anybody says I think it looks like a decent flick and I'll be seeing it in the theater
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I don't care what anybody says I think it looks like a decent flick and I'll be seeing it in the theater
Ditto.
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Can't wait to see this. That train derailing scene looks sweet! :aok
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CGI. :mad:
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Same here!
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It worries me they can't even get the poster right.
For the little guy in my avatar I really want it to be a good film. But when they preface it with "inspired by true events', I get worried. That's the disclaimer for "none of this is actual history, we're trying to make money with a story we think we can tell better then the truth".
I'm much more a fan of the truth. My best hope is it gets kids to watch it and take the extra step to read up on the Tuskegee Airmen. My fear is it becomes the 'truth' for the kids who see it, and diminishes the accomplishments of the real men who endured that fight
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It worries me they can't even get the poster right.
For the little guy in my avatar I really want it to be a good film. But when they preface it with "inspired by true events', I get worried. That's the disclaimer for "none of this is actual history, we're trying to make money with a story we think we can tell better then the truth".
I'm much more a fan of the truth. My best hope is it gets kids to watch it and take the extra step to read up on the Tuskegee Airmen. My fear is it becomes the 'truth' for the kids who see it, and diminishes the accomplishments of the real men who endured that fight
Bingo.
Did nobody notice how hokey the formation flying or that "trainwreck" scene was? To me it looked awful.
EDIT: Dear George Lucas,
This isn't Star Wars. Your complete disregard for physics, history and general reality will get you crucified in the "based on true events" genre.
You have been warned,
Melvin
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Your complete disregard for physics
If you are talking about the flip the pony did, I have done that before in the game, and I remember reading about another pony pilot doing it as well.
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If you are talking about the flip the pony did, I have done that before in the game, and I remember reading about another pony pilot doing it as well.
Ugh, pay attention.
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I agree with Corky. It is nothing more than a Pearl Harbor with lots of pretty eye candy and short of facts.
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Damn...I was just about to say "Hey and no cheesy unrealistic Hollywood ACM" and at that moment the Pony did the cliche 360-15G-turn-and-spray manuever that every movie uses LOLOL. :cry
STILL LOOKS AWESOME THOUGH!!! :x :x :x :x :airplane:
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I winced at the P-51 backflip but honestly didn't notice anything goofy about the formation flying - although I hardly had time to see much since the scenes change so rapidly.
I'm prepared for a certain amount of Hollywood treatment, and I'll overlook inaccuracies like the wrong tail code on the B17s, etc - because it is SO SO SO much better than seeing a C130 sub for a Japanese patrol plane in the 70s-era "Midway" movie, where Hellcats served as Wildcats, or the corny model-plane-on-wires Japanese fighters of Duke Wayne's 1942 "Flying Tigers" film. It looks like they spend a lot of time in P-40s, too, which is fantastic.
I hope it has such success that it generates interest for several more WWII air combat films (would love a "Band of Brothers-style series on the Flying Tigers). I'll probably read up on the Tuskegee Airmen, too. I figure there's a lot I don't know about them.
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Plus, it opens on my birthday!
Here is a quote from a comment on IMDb by a screenwiter, who addresses the complainers about historical accuracy on that BB- and I thought it was a well-written response, and he made a couple of points I hadn't thought of:
OK folks, I can appreciate the criticisms and you historical advocates are correct that there are a lot of inaccuracies in this depiction of the Tuskegee Airmen, but as a screenwriter and someone who knows a few things (not all things) about the movie business, this movie isn't trying to be anything that it says it isn't. "Inspired By True Events" gives a LOT of lateral leeway in telling the story, especially surrounding some of the details. If non-fictional characters were used, the families would likely sue the studio for unlicensed use of people's likenesses and images. Movie killed. Moreover, the goal of telling stories in Hollywood is to entertain, inspire and tell great stories. Even if some of the facts are fudged a bit. "Gladiator" wasn't based on exact history, but was rather a composite of several characters and stories that were based in historical fact that were assembled in a fictional way to make a great story. "Gladiator" rocked, did it not? Same thing with "Saving Private Ryan". They got the beaches historically wrong, and the storming of the beach at the beginning was only true for 1 or 2 of the beaches while the majority of the invasion didn't see that kind of action. Moreover, while it is true that there was a "Ryan" who's brother's did die in combat, and there was a mission to bring him back home, almost none of the events that happened in the movie were historically accurate as relates to that story. Another awesome movie, and even a lot of vets gave it props...
The bottom line is that Hollywood is about entertainment and making stories that people will pay money to see, and feel great about seeing at the end. "Red Tails" is going to hit the "marks" of the underdog African American pilots of the 332nd Fighter Wing (true) over coming adversity and racism (true) to be assigned to highly risky bomber escort missions over Europe (true) and kicking total bellybutton doing it (also true). Sounds like a great MOVIE to me! I am willing to bet money that a large part of using "inaccurate" colors and insignias on the planes was more geared for the audience to be able to distinguish who was who in the fighter sequences than to flagrantly snub historical facts. That's my 2 cents worth, I can't wait to see the movie, and I hope the rest of it is a great story. Thank you.
I do hope everybody has a chance to go and see it.
Might be a nice opportunity for some new 332nd skins in AH too - what a wonderful marketing opportunity to put our game with P-51 and P-40 skins right out of the movie in front of people who are hyped after just having seen it. Who doesn't want to be a fighter pilot after having a movie experience like that?
<S>
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Too funny, guys decide in advance that the movie must be crap because of historical inaccuracies on a bbs about a game that is in large part Spit v Spit and Corsair v Mustang.
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Too funny, guys decide in advance that the movie must be crap because of historical inaccuracies on a bbs about a game that is in large part Spit v Spit and Corsair v Mustang.
QFT.
also, the best part of that preview was that 262 going bye bye. the p51 crazy flip, well, thats obviously a bit off but do we have to get into a big brouhaha about it?
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Anybody hear anything on the progress on Peter Jackson's remake of "Dambusters"?
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Too funny, guys decide in advance that the movie must be crap because of historical inaccuracies on a bbs about a game that is in large part Spit v Spit and Corsair v Mustang.
I don't know about you, but some of us have spent a large majority of our adult lives in the restoration business and really get agitated that hollyweird and half-assed restorers take every liberty they can in trying to promote something for the "sake of history". History deserves to be delivered in an untarnished manner. When you change it for the sake of entertainment or pure laziness and don't do the research you do it a great disservice. It is why many blatantly false rumors persist to this day.
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I still think it will be cool to see some WW2 air combat scenes with big budget special effects and the correct (in general) planes, rather than ridiculous substitutes.
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I don't know about you, but some of us have spent a large majority of our adult lives in the restoration business and really get agitated that hollyweird and half-assed restorers take every liberty they can in trying to promote something for the "sake of history". History deserves to be delivered in an untarnished manner. When you change it for the sake of entertainment or pure laziness and don't do the research you do it a great disservice. It is why many blatantly false rumors persist to this day.
Bodhi
You know I like and respect you but I disagree on this point. The hollyweird guy got it right. THEY have to, for lack of a better phrase, dumb down, their entertainment to what the general public will buy. True historians have the job of getting it 'right'.
So the question is. Would you prefer a dumbed down version that will sell and possibly encourage people to research and learn or no version at all?
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Bodhi
You know I like and respect you but I disagree on this point. The hollyweird guy got it right. THEY have to, for lack of a better phrase, dumb down, their entertainment to what the general public will buy. True historians have the job of getting it 'right'.
So the question is. Would you prefer a dumbed down version that will sell and possibly encourage people to research and learn or no version at all?
I agree. It would be nice if Hollywood got it right for once, but it's enough (in my opinion) that they produce something that will interest a new generation to the topic. The ones with enough interest will eventually learn of the errors for themselves.
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My problem with the deal is that Lucas has sooooo much cash, yet he still can't get it "right".
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My problem with the deal is that Lucas has sooooo much cash, yet he still can't get it "right".
Ok, so instead of whining about CGI and minor details, go out and make something more accurate. These movies are made for entertainment. If you can't accept that, then don't watch it. This "I'm going to crap on a movie I haven't even seen because I don't like the way it's been presented in two trailers that amounted to roughly three minutes of unfinished film." is a load of crap.
Hope that it's farily accurate, and enjoy a movie. I know I will.
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Ok, so instead of whining about CGI and minor details, go out and make something more accurate. Get over yourself already.
I can't get over myself.
And I can't fork over the cash to make something better, or else I would.
I prefer to read non-fiction.
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I can't get over myself.
And I can't fork over the cash to make something better, or else I would.
I prefer to read non-fiction.
So you whine about things that are beyond your control? Sounds like a fairly futile gesture to me.
EDIT above.
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So you whine about things that are beyond your control? Sounds like a fairly futile gesture to me.
EDIT above.
Well said. :salute
I HOPE the movie kills. Doubt it will is all.
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Fair enough. I'll be watching it on opening night. We can debate the details after we see what it truly is. :salute
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Fair enough. I'll be watching it on opening night. We can debate the details after we see what it truly is. :salute
As will I (because you put it so succinctly).
And we will.
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No offense intended bro. I apologize if I came off harsh.
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I'm just going to approach it in the spirit of fun.
Finally get to see an air combat movie made with modern special effects.
Warts and all, this is a good thing.
We need more of such to revive interest in this era we are all so enamored with.
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No offense intended bro. I apologize if I came off harsh.
None taken.
For crying out loud, it's a bulletin board titled " The O'Club"
It's where guys like us go to shoot the breeze.
:salute
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man... looks awesome!!! can't wait for it to get to Singapore!!!
:salute
p.s... it doesn't say based on true events... it says inspired by true events...
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For variety, here is a thread about the movie on a non-WWII aviation focused forum:
http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1152516
I am curious what you guys think of how the people there look at it?
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For variety, here is a thread about the movie on a non-WWII aviation focused forum:
http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1152516
I am curious what you guys think of how the people there look at it?
It was the same argument were having here. Someone is upset about Hollywood getting minutiae incorrect (e.g. Hollywood used a 109G-6 instead of a 109G-14, used the wrong color scheme and the wrong Gruppe emblem) when that level of accuracy doesn't enter into Hollywood's thinking (according to the screenwriter's post).
If those are the worst historical inaccuracies I think we're in for a pretty fair movie. Bottom line I think is that Hollywood's goals as storyteller here are quite different than what our goals would be. We have to accept that now or we won't enjoy the movie. It is SO much better than not having the movie at all, isn't it? Enjoy the special effects and advances in CGI. (I wonder if there will be a 3D offering?)
I am also reminded that it isn't just Hollywood that doesn't let facts get in the way of a good story. I grew up reading as much by Martin Caidin as I could get my hands on, and those books are considered nonfiction histories of the men and aircraft of WWII. But they often stray from the facts; I suppose for the same reason - the author felt he had to dress up the stories to sell some books. He sure piqued my interest in WWII air combat like no one else though, I can tell you that.
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well in all fairness...i think hollywood could have done it better being more historically correct... after all its still CGI... it would just be a matter of putting more effort into researching... its less than a couple more hours only.. why couldn't they do it?
http://youtu.be/UNbTVobWzTw (http://youtu.be/UNbTVobWzTw)
but i'm going to watch it for the story... for the love of dogfights... for the love of flying... not the colour of the plane's skin., or the type of plane *who the hell doesn't know its a 109 or a 262???*
you guys are forgetting the whole point... this isn't about the planes they flew.. its about the people that flew them... if you stopped judging and just watched it for its pure entertainment value and also for the story behind it....you would be a less miserable person. i hated pearl harbour not because of the historical incorrectness or the twist in the story behind it... i hated it cos they made it into a LOVE STORY... and a very badly made love story that made the heroine look like a slurt!
P.s dissing this movie solely because of it historical incorrectness.....its almost like dismissing a beautiful blonde girl solely cos she has a pimple on her face or for wearing the wrong clothes...it seems its all about the aesthetics.. we need to look beyond and find whats on the other side and what really matters, than constantly being blind with just looking at your own behind...
just an opinion.. :salute
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I think people sometimes expect too much - plenty of excellent films from the 50s,60, & 70's would make do with whatever they could source...how many wehrmacht would roll up in M-48's, and grey M3 halftracks.
CGI is of course different but as already stated plenty of things are made generic for the general public to easily identify, as was the case for pre CGI films. People could nit pick the Battle of Britain to pieces for its late marks of Spitfires, Merlin engined Hispanos' & Casa HA-2111's if they wanted to, but that doesn't stop it from being a classic. And the general public can at least get an understanding of the look and types of period aircraft.
In the end it should be the story and tone that makes the difference - pre CGI films didnt rely on equipment, but story and performance. It shouldn't matter as long as the "insignificant" details don't damage the story and tone ie. Pearl Harbor
Tronsky
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like i said on the first trailer, to much CGI, some flightscenes looking like a PS3 game.
sure CGI is much cheaper then flying real planes, but you see the difference unmistakable.
Nevertheless, i cant wait to see a new flight Movie!
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For those that think I am not interested in this movie or "dis" it because of an incorrect aircraft sub-type or incorrect group markings, you completely misunderstood my second post. To clarify, I think it is a joke (like Pearl Harbor) because their research level allowed much better accuracy and because they throw in completely inaccurate representations of what aircraft could do. It goes beyond simple identity issues and into serious mistakes of history when people start believing that aircraft performed in certain ways when they didn't, performed roles they did not, and people are placed as having accomplished something when they did not.
The amount of false information from movies of this genre that will be perceived as fact after seeing it is what bothers me. Not the little bits and pieces like inaccurate group markings (there really is no excuse for that when it is so easy to research) and plane subtypes.
Lastly, it really agitates me when some clown walks up to me and asks me a question about an artifact and then tells me I am wrong because they saw it in a movie. Keep in mind, I do not mind being told I am wrong, I simply do not like history being misrepresented.
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An example of what Bodhi is talking about....
Years ago I was hanging out in the TA (no recollection why) when a new player came in having just had a Spitfire Mk V hand his P-51D its buttocks. He grabbed a Spitfire Mk V to learn how to use it, but while he was doing so he was ranting about how mismodeled the airplanes were in the game because the P-51 was the greatest fighter of WWII and should out turn anything. I engaged him in conversation and tried to help him get his legs under him. His source of info on the P-51 was TV shows on the history/discovery channels (we all know how they hype whatever aircraft the show is about) and he had fully believed the hype about it.
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I'm just going to approach it in the spirit of fun.
Finally get to see an air combat movie made with modern special effects.
Warts and all, this is a good thing.
We need more of such to revive interest in this era we are all so enamored with.
exactly....I wont care about the minor stuff, as long as they dont use a p 40 for a 51, I wont care I am just glad they are getting some WW2 on the big screen.
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I still haven't seen anything that's on the level of "Pearl Harbor" stupidity. I'm going to go, because if we don't, we'll never see another WWII era movie for a long time.
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come on melvin, did you actually expect hollywood to destroy a million dollar train for your entertainment?
i know you watched this one
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/91hBKcrIyUL._AA1500_.jpg)
did you see this one?
(http://image.betamonline.com/sdimages/disk12/622727.jpg)
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For those that think I am not interested in this movie or "dis" it because of an incorrect aircraft sub-type or incorrect group markings, you completely misunderstood my second post. To clarify, I think it is a joke (like Pearl Harbor) because their research level allowed much better accuracy and because they throw in completely inaccurate representations of what aircraft could do. It goes beyond simple identity issues and into serious mistakes of history when people start believing that aircraft performed in certain ways when they didn't, performed roles they did not, and people are placed as having accomplished something when they did not.
The amount of false information from movies of this genre that will be perceived as fact after seeing it is what bothers me. Not the little bits and pieces like inaccurate group markings (there really is no excuse for that when it is so easy to research) and plane subtypes.
Lastly, it really agitates me when some clown walks up to me and asks me a question about an artifact and then tells me I am wrong because they saw it in a movie. Keep in mind, I do not mind being told I am wrong, I simply do not like history being misrepresented.
It's a movie. If they don't have a love triangle and then, the good guys die in heroic way, then no one would buy tickets.
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Does Dark Blue World belong in these later movies of WW11?
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Never mind, another love triangle.
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Movies are entertainment, theater and drama. They may tell an important story, social commentary or reflect on moral values, but they are still theater, made to thrill and entertain.
Documentaries are made to retell history in accurate detail.
"Red Tails" is the former, and I for one am looking forward to it.
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True, I guess.
Shakespeare's historical plays do not, in fact, bear more than a passing resemblance to the actual events.
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Pearl Harbor may have been stupid, but I did enjoy the combat, especially the BoB scenes. I didn't nitpick the details, i just enjoyed the visuals.
People like us are not a large enough audience for a big budget film.
What would appeal to us would bore the rest of the population.
There has to be a human interest story to get chicks to go see it.
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People like us are not a large enough audience for a big budget film.
What would appeal to us would bore the rest of the population.
I believe that this is where you are wrong. Simply telling the truth is the always the correct direction to take. The reason they do not is pure laziness.
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I believe that this is where you are wrong. Simply telling the truth is the always the correct direction to take. The reason they do not is pure laziness.
:aok could we send you to hollywood to do this to lucas?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQDpL_JNQ5A&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQDpL_JNQ5A&feature=related)
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Frankly when I hear some director like Lucas use the term, "inspired by", I kinda shudder. Who knows what version of history such an arrogant, rather unskilled, director like that can cook up? Most of all when the actual true story is so inspiring and would make such a great film. I saw this yesterday in the theater when I went and saw Conan. They didn't even mention "Tuskegee" in the trailer. That modern Pearl harbor movie was so painful I walked out of the theater, "a habit of mine with bad movies".
I just hope Lucaisn'tnt writing thdialogge for the movie. Hidialogge in Star Wars was just awful. Luckily he was smart enough to let another write Empire/Strikes and Return/Jedi.
If this is turned into a twisted version of Lucas-History then I'll pass.
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I agree with the comments that it doesn't matter about total historical accuracy. Realistically it can't be done. The key to a good movie is the story. If it's a good story you can ignore the compromises. So if it proves to be a proper tribute to the Red Tails and a good story then it will have done it's job.
On the other hand, :bhead , the CGI. The bloody CGI. You would have thought that they could have made it convincing by now! Now the graphics are remarkable, in many ways almost real. But here we go again, exaggerated speeds, compressed formations. The old Star Wars galactic battle scene! Tie fighters and X wings. They just can't let that go can they? :ahand
Ah well, maybe Peter Jackson can do better if he ever gets his film off the ground. He at least is a Warbird buff.
We live in hope.
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I bet most of you already know of this, but there is a new movie coming out by Lucas Films on WW2 combat called Red Tails. Its about the Tuskegee airmen. The story will probably be cheesy but the special affects look very much like the cold death I used to hand out when I played this stupid game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpA6TC0T_Lw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpA6TC0T_Lw)
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Welcome to the forums!! :)
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No, no no, you're already months behind. :D While not absolute that it won't be cheesy, Lucas is just paying for it and getting his team do all the CGI in-house, and he hired somoene else to direct it, and it's cast is pretty promissing, including one member who stared and did a great job in the last Tuskegee Airmen movie.
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I am looking forward to it :aok
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I cant wait.
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(http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/3688510/aview/c_Poster_For_Red_Tails_Made_Sheer_Awesomeness_1318639739.jpg)
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:x
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:rofl :x :huh
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(http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/3688510/aview/c_Poster_For_Red_Tails_Made_Sheer_Awesomeness_1318639739.jpg)
Does anyone notice the vertical HO in the picture?
-Penguin
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Does anyone notice the vertical HO in the picture?
-Penguin
I'm not sure what is going on in that drawing.
Is he shooting fireballs from his eyes? And why are his hands not on the controls?
I guess it doesn't matter, as he's about to compress anyway. :confused:
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They're strafing a ship.
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but didn't the tuskegee airmen sink the italian destroyer using P-47s?
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I dont see any controls except what looks like a lil itty bitty steering wheel
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http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1810095581/video/27233569 (http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1810095581/video/27233569)
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looks good :aok would love see a remake of the memphis belle.
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I'll get out of the house to see that one. The story of the Red Tails is one of the most compelling of WWII. Sure it will be Hollywooded up but I'll enjoy it nonetheless.
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I'm looking forward to seeing it too.
I really don't like the little "trick" moves the P51 pulls against the 109, etc, so I hope there's not too much of that junk in the film...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpA6TC0T_Lw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpA6TC0T_Lw)
I can't really describe this movie, just as the best WWII movie trailer I have ever seen my entire life.
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Read Catch-22 sometime.
Red Tails looks like it will be great.
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Watch this and be blown away... i CAN NOT wait to see this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpA6TC0T_Lw
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Drat! Got my hopes up!
I have some clips that I've taken with my camcorder of redtails making some pretty sweet kills too.
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Apparently the internet runs slowly in Virginia :D
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Here you go Mtnman :) . A redtail is present, but so is nature's finest fighter pilot!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpz66RYD110 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpz66RYD110)
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This is the latest trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uQdUOWcsCrE
The official YouTube page has a few behind the scenes videos as well: http://www.youtube.com/user/RedTailsMovie
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Here you go Mtnman :) . A redtail is present, but so is nature's finest fighter pilot!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpz66RYD110 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpz66RYD110)
Pretty cool clip, isn't it?
I actually know the guys who filmed it (they filmed one of my birds last year for an upcoming show that shows redtails hunting squirrels). And I got to climb up on top of that cliff last summer when a few friends of mine rappelled down to the peregrine's nest ledge to work on placing some raccoon barriers (if you've seen the rest of the video that the clip you posted was cut from, one of them was the guy that climbs up on the Lansing power plant stack).
The peregrine is an awesome predator, that's for sure (I have one of those, too :D). In that clip, it doesn't kill the redtail though, it just taps it to drive it away from the nest. Those falcons do the same thing to the bald eagles and even the great horned owls if they show themselves during the day.
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This is the latest trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uQdUOWcsCrE
The official YouTube page has a few behind the scenes videos as well: http://www.youtube.com/user/RedTailsMovie
This definitely looks like a fun movie to go see. I'm guessing it's full of the normal Hollywood inaccuracies, but it looks pretty dang call just the same!
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You need to start a thread with some pictures of your birds! I know I've mentioned to you before I would love nothing more than to be in a spot in life where I had the time to start working with raptors, so pictures are all I have to go on for now :) .
I know Redtails are great hunters in their own right, but I always get taken back to a story of the second Redtail my father ever got his hands on. It had been neglected by the previous handler and not flown in quite some time and they really struggled to get her to fly again. She still could fly of course, she wasn't injured or anything, just refused to. It got as bad as my Dad finding a steep hill with the wind howling down over it, and having a friend release her about 300 yards down the hill into the wind. She flew up and did a few circles around the friends head, saw the glove with the treat and immediatley landed and hopped up the entire hill. Flying again only to go from the ground to the glove! I laugh every time :) .
And with the help of a much more experienced falconer they were able to get her into hunting shape and released much later.
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This definitely looks like a fun movie to go see. I'm guessing it's full of the normal Hollywood inaccuracies, but it looks pretty dang call just the same!
Skin of bombers and LW AC. preformace of 262 is quesionable too.
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They shot down 262s? Hollywood or is it true?
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They shot down 262s? Hollywood or is it true?
Click Me! (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Did+the+tuskegee+airmen+shoot+down+any+me262s)
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Click Me! (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Did+the+tuskegee+airmen+shoot+down+any+me262s)
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
4 rofls
:aok
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:rofl
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Click Me! (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Did+the+tuskegee+airmen+shoot+down+any+me262s)
That is awesome in some many ways... :aok :aok :aok
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I hope that didn't come off too mean, no offense raptor. I didn't know either, so I clicked it after I made it. :devil
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:O THATS AWESOME, both what you did and the fact they shot em down :rock
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If I wanted historical accuracy I would watch a documentary on the Tuskegee airmen.
It's about the story to me, not how real it can get.
I'd still watch it even if it was a cartoon.
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You need to start a thread with some pictures of your birds! I know I've mentioned to you before I would love nothing more than to be in a spot in life where I had the time to start working with raptors, so pictures are all I have to go on for now :) .
I know Redtails are great hunters in their own right, but I always get taken back to a story of the second Redtail my father ever got his hands on. It had been neglected by the previous handler and not flown in quite some time and they really struggled to get her to fly again. She still could fly of course, she wasn't injured or anything, just refused to. It got as bad as my Dad finding a steep hill with the wind howling down over it, and having a friend release her about 300 yards down the hill into the wind. She flew up and did a few circles around the friends head, saw the glove with the treat and immediatley landed and hopped up the entire hill. Flying again only to go from the ground to the glove! I laugh every time :) .
And with the help of a much more experienced falconer they were able to get her into hunting shape and released much later.
Maybe I'll start a thread and post a few. I'm not sure it would be appropriate place to post a lot of them though. I have some that just show the birds without kills, etc, that I suppose I could post.
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If I wanted historical accuracy I would watch a documentary on the Tuskegee airmen.
It's about the story to me, not how real it can get.
I'd still watch it even if it was a cartoon.
I can see that, and I'll go see it for the story and the planes. I'm ok with a movie that has no value beyond the story.
But when they portray factual events and/or characters, I really wish they'd make more of an effort to do it "right". The Tuskegee Airmen all on their own is a great story. And with all the effort put forth for a movie like this, I'm always left wondering why they couldn't have just done a bit more research or kept to the facts.
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Please understand, most of the reason bombers and fighters do not bare common or accurate numbers is on purpose.
Imagine seeing the bomber that 8 men lost there lives on,and one of them happens to be your father,or your grand father.
This is not a history documentation, it is a movie based on something In history.
The last thing any of you would want for your family members is some 13 year old net nerd looking up your family members bomber number so he can find out who died in that "HELLA COOL EXPLOSION WHERE THE WING RIPS OFF AND YOU CAN HEAR THE GUY SCREAM ALL THE WAY DOWN TILL HE HITS THE GROUND!"
get it? :mad:
Some things are just to close to home guys.
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Apparently they did...
http://clem.mscd.edu/~christib/wprof/sharedinfo/FieldTripWIA/Tuskegee%20Airmen%20Facts.doc
I'm still not sure about that claim of never losing a bomber...
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. :salute
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Hey I already posted a topic about this though.
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I can see that, and I'll go see it for the story and the planes. I'm ok with a movie that has no value beyond the story.
But when they portray factual events and/or characters, I really wish they'd make more of an effort to do it "right". The Tuskegee Airmen all on their own is a great story. And with all the effort put forth for a movie like this, I'm always left wondering why they couldn't have just done a bit more research or kept to the facts.
They've been doing research for this movie since 1988, I have a feeling its going to be pretty dang accurate in the battles and the way they trained. They've even brought in a few of the actualy tuskegee airmen in the late 1990s i believe. But you don't see too many air to air WW2 movies, so I'm very excited to see this.
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Hey I already posted a topic about this though.
I think I've seen 3-4 threads on this same topic.
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I watched several trailers for the new Lucas movie coming to theaters on 20 Jan 12. Looks like its gonna be pretty good. I hope it wont be a disappointment.
There's a part in the trailer where it shows a Pony taking to the vertical, pulling hard into an almost stall then flipping its nose around for a shot landing hits on a 109. Pretty cool affects.
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As long as you will grant some liberties in terms of historical accuracy, this will be a fine film. Just don't think of it as the "true" history of the Tuskegee Airmen, but the story of black avaitors in WW2 usinng the name "Tuskegee Airmen".
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:rock
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I watched several trailers for the new Lucas movie coming to theaters on 20 Jan 12. Looks like its gonna be pretty good. I hope it wont be a disappointment.
There's a part in the trailer where it shows a Pony taking to the vertical, pulling hard into an almost stall then flipping its nose around for a shot landing hits on a 109. Pretty cool affects.
Trailor is full of tricks and fails. The split second reverse was on a 109, but they slid a 262 in place to make it look like a 262 kill. Another the p51 variants are incorrect, along with many of bombers and German paint on there aircraft
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Trailor is full of tricks and fails. The split second reverse was on a 109, but they slid a 262 in place to make it look like a 262 kill. Another the p51 variants are incorrect, along with many of bombers and German paint on there aircraft
"I'm bringing him in closer."
"You're gonna do WHAT?"
"I'll hit the brakes, and he'll fly right by."
Red Tails is going to be more accurate than that... Good enough for me. :D
(Top Gun is one of my favorite movies btw)
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"I'm bringing him in closer."
"You're gonna do WHAT?"
"I'll hit the brakes, and he'll fly right by."
Red Tails is going to be more accurate than that... Good enough for me. :D
(Top Gun is one of my favorite movies btw)
Great balls of fire.
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"I'm bringing him in closer."
"You're gonna do WHAT?"
"I'll hit the brakes, and he'll fly right by."
Red Tails is going to be more accurate than that... Good enough for me. :D
(Top Gun is one of my favorite movies btw)
Don't hate! :old: :D :airplane:
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As long it is good movie about WWII, i'm fine with it :D
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andhave plenty of these
(http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad152/camnite/ussalabama029.jpg)
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Trailor is full of tricks and fails. The split second reverse was on a 109, but they slid a 262 in place to make it look like a 262 kill. Another the p51 variants are incorrect, along with many of bombers and German paint on there aircraft
Wow. This actually hurt to read.
Anywhatever, what incorrect Mustang variants?
wrongway
(spellchecks every time, usually)
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The CGI still looks too much like CGI to me.
Why is it older films like say Tora Tora Tora, Or Blue Max for example seem to be able to pull it off better then todays film makers?
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Wow. This actually hurt to read.
Anywhatever, what incorrect Mustang variants?
wrongway
(spellchecks every time, usually)
Boom
First one. We have an entire formation of 8th AF OD/Gray B17Fs being escorted by 15th AF marked P51Ds. Never happened. Show me a photo of 8th AF B17Fs being escorted by 8th AF P51Ds and I'll tell you it's a fake. Should be G model 17s and obviously not 8th AF marked.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap1-30.jpg)
109 attacking the B17Fs. Interesting to see all the kill markings on the fuselage of the 109. Thought LW practice was to put them on the rudder :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap8-9.jpg)
Kudos to the folks who outfitted the pilots. It's a good mix of RAF and USAAF issue stuff which is correct. Do note all the 51s have postwar uncuffed Hamilton standard props.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap3-31.jpg)
All 8th AF B17Gs now. Clearly it was only one Bomb Group that was ever escorted too. Triangle L is the 381st BG
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap4-24.jpg)
The 332nd gets new P51s! Oops, all P51D-5s without the dorsal fin fillet. The 332nd got P51Cs. When they got D models it was after the addition of the fin fillet. Oh well :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap5-25.jpg)
And here we are again with the now red tailed 51Ds escorting the 381st. Not a silver B17G to be seen although this would have to be the last half of 44 or early 45.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap6-16.jpg)
Here come those yellow tailed 262s! At least the 17s are finally silver :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap9-9.jpg)
And last but not least, that incredible move by the 51 to shoot the 262...although it turns out it's a 109G and the 262 bit was spliced in to the trailer and appeared to be what the 51 got with his fancy move. Combat flaps and lots of rudder on that 51.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap10-7.jpg)
Info provided by guppy :)
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looks pretty entertaining, i think that's why they make movies. for entertainment, not historical accuracy. if they did, the titanic would've turned the wrong way! :D
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If people approach this movie about a historical event developed by a Hollywierdo who's sole purpose is to entertain, then all will be fine. But as soon as people start to nit-pick the tid-bits, then too bad for them. I highly suggest that people remember that this is for entertainment, not historical documentation.
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If people approach this movie about a historical event developed by a Hollywierdo who's sole purpose is to entertain, then all will be fine. But as soon as people start to nit-pick the tid-bits, then too bad for them. I highly suggest that people remember that this is for entertainment, not historical documentation.
I agree with you on that. Problem is folks often times take the movie for actual history and run with it. No need to name names on those films <cough> Pearl Harbor<cough> If it gets the kids to pick up a book and do a bit of research on who the real Tuskegee pilots were, then it will have done it's job.
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Im curious, was all the combat in Memphis Belle, Top Gun, IRON EAGLE 1-3, The Battle of Britain, Pearl Harbor or any other movie involving air combat accurate?
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Im curious, was all the combat in Memphis Belle, Top Gun, IRON EAGLE 1-3, The Battle of Britain, Pearl Harbor or any other movie involving air combat accurate?
Remember this is just my opinion :)
The remade movie "Memphis Belle" was completely inaccurate in terms of the actual flights and crew of the real Belle. Any one of the old guys like myself who built the Revell model kit of the Belle back in the day knows that the only wound suffered by a Belle crewman was a 'pin scratch' suffered by the tail gunner John Quinlin. No tail blown off, no dramatic winding down the wheels, nowdead but brought back to life radio man. They certainly weren't fighting like junior high kids in the waist. That part seems to really bother the old bomber guys who saw it that I've talked to.
Top Gun was what it was. I enjoyed it as it never claimed to be anything but a recruiting film. "Watch the canopy!" Poor Goose. My oldest when he was little referred to it as "Top Gug"
Iron Eagle? You are kidding right?
Battle of Britain was probably the best air to air stuff and they went the extra mile to do it. Saved an awful lot of Spits, Hurris and Spanish 109s and He111s that otherwise probably wouldn't still exist.
Pearl Harbor? P40Ns running Zekes into each other after out maneuvering them on the deck? Welch and Taylor rolled over in their graves on that one. The idea that Jimmy Doolittle and the Tokyo Raiders flew in formation in the flak over Japan is hilarious. I'm still trying to figure out how the guy got from the RAF to the USAAF fighters, only to end up in a B25 over Tokyo 4 months later too.
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Don't hate! :old: :D :airplane:
Ill hate all day.
Will be an entertaining movie. Joach1m got it right but very vaguely explained what was inaccurate. Guess he doesnt have time if he wants to maintain 68 posts a day.
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I used to despise the movie "Pearl Harbor" (the latest movie done a few years back with modern warships at pearl harbor). Yeah this movie, half a chick flick and the other half historically inaccurate to say the least. For years we called it the "PH Film" as in - you never talked about it being so inaccurate.
However, if it was made a documentary these days, just how many people would view it? what maybe a few hundred? thousand at most?
The movie has to sell to an audience, regardless of how "accurate" it is sadly.
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Ill hate all day.
Will be an entertaining movie. Joach1m got it right but very vaguely explained what was inaccurate. Guess he doesn't have time if he wants to maintain 68 posts a day.
Yup, I have the time to grammar critique everyones in a certain squad. I also posted what was inaccurate In a couple posts down.
Since I have some time right now there is an apostrophe between the "n" and "t" in doesn't.
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I used to despise the movie "Pearl Harbor" (the latest movie done a few years back with modern warships at pearl harbor). Yeah this movie, half a chick flick and the other half historically inaccurate to say the least. For years we called it the "PH Film" as in - you never talked about it being so inaccurate.
However, if it was made a documentary these days, just how many people would view it? what maybe a few hundred? thousand at most?
The movie has to sell to an audience, regardless of how "accurate" it is sadly.
I get that part too. My problem with a film like "Pearl Harbor" is by naming it that you are suggesting it's history. "From Here to Eternity" is a better movie about Pearl Harbor. And it's got all the same elements, but it doesn't claim to be "Pearl Harbor". It's a film based around the time of Pearl Harbor.
I understand why they did what they did in "Memphis Belle" as they wanted to show lots of the horror of the air war. But by naming it Memphis Belle they suggest that it is what happened to one crew. "12 O'Clock High" is in my mind the better film as it does the same thing, without claiming it's history. What's interesting about that film is that if you know the history you can catch all the specific incidents they refer to that really happened, but you don't walk away thinking it's just this one crew that went through all this stuff.
Again, just my opinion.
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Remember this is just my opinion :)
The remade movie "Memphis Belle" was completely inaccurate in terms of the actual flights and crew of the real Belle.
I think what they were trying to show was what happened to many of the B17's all in one mission/plane. From readings many of that stuff did happen, just not to the Belle or to it's group in that last mission. Should've had one of the actors do an explanation next to the real Belle at the end (or beginning) of the movie.
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Ill hate all day.
Will be an entertaining movie. Joach1m got it right but very vaguely explained what was inaccurate. Guess he doesnt have time if he wants to maintain 68 posts a day.
This is fun, you guys' back and forth bickering BS does not belong on a public forum. Is there an ignore/squelch function for the BBS? If so, please point me to it.
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I get that part too. My problem with a film like "Pearl Harbor" is by naming it that you are suggesting it's history. "From Here to Eternity" is a better movie about Pearl Harbor. And it's got all the same elements, but it doesn't claim to be "Pearl Harbor". It's a film based around the time of Pearl Harbor.
I understand why they did what they did in "Memphis Belle" as they wanted to show lots of the horror of the air war. But by naming it Memphis Belle they suggest that it is what happened to one crew. "12 O'Clock High" is in my mind the better film as it does the same thing, without claiming it's history. What's interesting about that film is that if you know the history you can catch all the specific incidents they refer to that really happened, but you don't walk away thinking it's just this one crew that went through all this stuff.
Again, just my opinion.
I agree completely, It should of never been named after "PH", rather re-named something else - anything other then directed towards a history timeline.
Sadly my ol lady agrees its one of the best movies of all times, so I have no choice to watch it now and then. *Grumbles something about nuclear carriers..
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I agree completely, It should of never been named after "PH", rather re-named something else - anything other then directed towards a history timeline.
Sadly my ol lady agrees its one of the best movies of all times, so I have no choice to watch it now and then. *Grumbles something about nuclear carriers..
Hell, it's not even good if you ignore the the "history" part and focus on the love story. You got a love triangle where NO ONE had chemistry.
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I just think it's cool to watch reasonably correct planes zipping around shooting each other.
I can ignore the inaccurate paint schemes etc. I find the CGI a lot better than using A6 Texans for Zeros ala TORA, TORA, TORA.
Almost every trailer Iv'e ever seen is cropped misleadingly but even I could tell that reversal was on a 109 and not a jet.
I'll just watch it and enjoy the visuals. Too bad for those who can't.
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Hell, it's not even good if you ignore the the "history" part and focus on the love story. You got a love triangle where NO ONE had chemistry.
Actually I think that's kind of accurate in a way. Young Servicemen with a one track mind and (one of) the only ways to get a lil milk back then was to buy the whole cow!
They just about married the first girl they saw. Us modern fellas know better than to commit to someone you barely know, or it all goes horribly wrong! :uhoh
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WOW! Where to start? First, the idea that after a particular date the only bombers we put up were silver B-17Gs is wrong. We flew what we had. Squadrons only received replacements after losses or planes just getting worn out without replacement parts available. If a plane was Olive Drab, it stayed Olive Drab throughout it's useful life. You would be amazed at what a maintenance crew could do with parts from other aircraft.
Second, I definitely see B-17 G models in the photos of the trailers posted here.
Third, How did they do so much better filming Tora Tora Tora!, Battle of Britain, etc etc? They actually had more planes available. The other thing was many planes were "converted" from AT-6s to Zeros, and etc. Something one wouldn't do with the dwindling number of surviving aircraft and costs of today. In the Battle of Britain, Spain was actually still using HE-111s when the movie was filmed.
Fourth, The Movie Memphis Belle was in fact extremely inaccurate for the Belle's last flight. From what I have found, the things that happened to the Belle were straight out of Martin Caidin's Book "Flying Forts".
Lastly, The Movie "Red Tails" will focus on an important group of men who have been until lately, repeatedly overlooked when telling the story of the Air War in Europe. It is about making people aware that the history is out there, they can then read a more factual account on their own. Frankly, that is where History and entertainment intersect: when something like this move can pique your interest enough to make you want to learn more.
And besides, I really DO want to be entertained when I go to see this film.
TeeArr
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If people approach this movie about a historical event developed by a Hollywierdo who's sole purpose is to entertain, then all will be fine. But as soon as people start to nit-pick the tid-bits, then too bad for them. I highly suggest that people remember that this is for entertainment, not historical documentation.
Exactly. Lighten up, sheesh. :lol 99% of the people that will see this movie will have no idea what you were just whi- err nitpi- err talking about. It's just a movie, not a documentary.
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Hmm... It does say inspired by true events... The 262 'kill' annoyed me though, the pony pilot only took out te left jet engine in the real world. :old:
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Buy the cow? I'd marry Kate Beckinsale in a heartbeat and show her some of my pilot moves, like the split S!
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Stuka!
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Lastly, The Movie "Red Tails" will focus on an important group of men who have been until lately, repeatedly overlooked when telling the story of the Air War in Europe. It is about making people aware that the history is out there, they can then read a more factual account on their own. Frankly, that is where History and entertainment intersect: when something like this move can pique your interest enough to make you want to learn more.
I agree with everything you say except this part. The unfortunate truth to the matter is we do such a piss poor job of teaching history in our public schools that the majority of youngsters get their US history from the movies. I saw a study where college students were surveyed about the Kennedy assassination and something like 90% of the "facts" they knew about it came directly from that lieing-sack-of-shxt-rat-fk-bastard Oliver Stone's left-wing-propaganda film JFK. I'd be willing to bet that the great majority of those under 25 don't get the joke when Bluto says "Was it over when the German's bombed Pearl Harbor?"
While I'd prefer to see historical accuracy on issues like paint jobs and aircraft models I expect to see at least a nodding acquaintance with actual historical background and facts. "Technical" inaccuracies, like the constant depiction of a three-plane flight of dive bombing Dauntless' as Japanese dive bombers in almost every documentary of the Pearl Harbor attack, happen and are disappointing but they usually don't misrepresent the essence of what actually occurred in the battle. Those whose sole education about Pearl Harbor comes from this latest "based on a true event" movie (the majority of those under 25) means that they have learned that poor defenseless little Japan was forced to attack the US because of the evil US embargo against them. It's not clear why the US embargo happened, I guess it was probably because of America's inherent racism. Not one single mention that Japan had been at war in Asia for 10 years, or the occupation of Manchuria, or the rape of Nanking. This is the single most disgusting thing about this trashy movie and an insult to those that died there and in the rest of the Pacific war.
Overall, I think the whole Hollywood schtick about using a grand historical event as just a background to a political agenda like Stone's or an excuse to use special effects or belabor a pathetic love story like in Titanic or Pearl Harbor is sad. Don't you think that telling a real story about what really happened to real people would be exciting enough? Telling the story of the men who stayed aboard Titanic knowing they'd die while the women and children were put in the lifeboats isn't as dramatic or interesting as a dumb-axx gun chase through a sinking boat that never happened? It's bad enough we have to put up with the rewriting of history through fantasies like "Dances with Aliens" (otherwise known as "Avatar" with it's incredibly thinly disguised story of the peace-loving-native-Americans-that-were-one-with-nature-who-loved-everything-and-everyone-and-never-experienced-violence-until-whitey-came-yet-still-had-warriors-for-some-unknown-reason) without Hollywood rewriting actual events because they're not exciting or PC enough. All of these films are a massive abuse of artistic license and, at best, shallow excuses for storytelling.
I have no hope that this new movie with be anything but more of the same inane Hollywood crap and nothing but another self flagellation on the evils of whitey's racism while relegating WWII to nothing but an excuse for special effects to keep the rednecks in their seats going "ohh" and "ahhh" during the lecture. This is unfortunate because this story is worth telling and worth telling accurately.
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I've grown up aggravated by historical inaccuracy's in movies, in particular any move that has to do with aviation. It looks like this is another one I will not waist my time with.
I hope that it can at least properly convey what the men of the 332nd had to go through, just to serve their country. The fact that they had, hand me down equipment, were purposely given the most hazardous ground attack missions (in North Africa), and had to fly 2 to 3 times the number of combat missions of other groups, is a testament to what these men did. They were not some uber fighter group that never lost a bomber (they did record the loss of bombers), but they dealt with a lot of discrimination while fighting for their country.
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History is accurate. History books, flawed in most cases, as they are documents created by flawed individuals. I.E. Man. Books are wrong all the way back to when books were created. History movies, far more flawed because they are entertainment. The ones MAKING them know they are entertainment. Anyone watching them darn well better know they are unless they are unable to grasp reality. Once again, back to the flaws of Man.
And Mace, that was a fairly bizarre rant where if read in the wrong way, seems to convey that indeed the native Americans were in dire need of the genocide we provided for them. We are not a perfect people, and we have a fairly sordid past in the name of "civilization" and continue to look unfavorably upon "others". I think it is getting better, but it is not gone, nor will it ever be, watch the news. But nothing can be learned from movies except entertainment. Anyone not able to understand that is gleefully still calling a crow (or a bluebird, or a finch) a bird, because to them, it only matters that it is a bird.
Bob
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You guys ever see a movie called "Piece of cake"? I think it was a BBC series. Watched it when I was younger. Can't remember but I thought they did a pretty good job with authenticity.
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"I'm bringing him in closer."
"You're gonna do WHAT?"
"I'll hit the brakes, and he'll fly right by."
Red Tails is going to be more accurate than that... Good enough for me. :D
(Top Gun is one of my favorite movies btw)
the only untrue part about that move was, it was origanally done in combat. and in an F4 Phantom
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Lastly, The Movie "Red Tails" will focus on an important group of men who have been until lately, repeatedly overlooked when telling the story of the Air War in Europe. It is about making people aware that the history is out there, they can then read a more factual account on their own. Frankly, that is where History and entertainment intersect: when something like this move can pique your interest enough to make you want to learn more.
And besides, I really DO want to be entertained when I go to see this film.
TeeArr
Really? under represented? How many Dick Bong, Bud Anderson, 356th, Frank Gabreski movies have you seen? This will make the third Tuskeegee airmen movie I've seen.
Yes there were a lot of recruiting shlock made during the war, and few good bomber movies like Twelve O'Clock high, Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo, but there have been very few movies telling the story of specific American Fighter pilots. I think the Tuskeegee airmen have been well represented, as they should be. :salute
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Really? under represented? How many Dick Bong, Bud Anderson, 356th, Frank Gabreski movies have you seen? This will make the third Tuskeegee airmen movie I've seen.
Yes there were a lot of recruiting shlock made during the war, and few good bomber movies like Twelve O'Clock high, Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo, but there have been very few movies telling the story of specific American Fighter pilots. I think the Tuskeegee airmen have been well represented, as they should be.
Let's see. There was "Reach for the Sky" about Douglas Bader, there was "Spitfire" about R. Mitchell, there was "The Battle of Britain" among whom were represented Ginger Lacey, 'Sailor' Malan, Keith Park, Hugh Dowding, but to name a few. There was the Television series "Baa Baa Blacksheep" about Greg Boyington, and his squadron, there was the "Joseph McConnell Story", There was "Red Baron" about Richthofen, and "The Blue Max" loosely based on Ernst Udet. Then there's "God is my Co-Pilot" about Bob Scott, Spirit of St. Louis, "Memphis Belle" (two) about Robert Morgan and his crew. There are others such as "30 Seconds Over Tokyo" basically about Ted Lawson, "Dark Blue World" A Czech film about Czech pilots that flew with the RAF, Flying Tigers, Flying Leathernecks, Midway...the list goes on Just because your favorite pilot may not have been singled out for his own feature length film, doesn't mean American, British, or German Aviators have been under represented.
TeeArr.
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Okay but if a movie points 100 people towards researching and keeping alive the actual history of the event isn't that a good thing?
Frankly I liked PH and still do. A couple of weeks after watching it I saw an advert for AH on the Military Channel and I've been here off and on since.
I've flown strictly Allied and strictly Axis and I've learned more in the last several years about the thoughts, challenges, and feelings, of those crewman than I ever would have had I not bothered with watching that movie.
Sometimes a movie is just a movie. Lighten up all you Francises.. jeez
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Seeing it opening night with my grandfather, really looking forward to this movie!!
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I never expect historical accuracy from a movie. I take what I can enjoy and don't worry about the rest.
There were some scenes in PH that I liked. The BOB scene was pretty good. The attack on battleship row etc.
You would have to be a complete moron to believe that the two pilots who did get off the ground in P-40's, just happened to also get to participate in the Doolittle raid, like bomber and fighter pilots were interchangeable with no training required.
Yeah accuracy would be nice, but it's better to have an inaccurate movie showing visually impressive WW2 air combat scenes than to not have any at all.
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Really? under represented? How many Dick Bong, Bud Anderson, 356th, Frank Gabreski movies have you seen? This will make the third Tuskeegee airmen movie I've seen.
Yes there were a lot of recruiting shlock made during the war, and few good bomber movies like Twelve O'Clock high, Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo, but there have been very few movies telling the story of specific American Fighter pilots. I think the Tuskeegee airmen have been well represented, as they should be. :salute
56th FG Zemke's Wolfpack, now that would be a show worth seeing! Imagine all the jugs!
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You guys ever see a movie called "Piece of cake"? I think it was a BBC series. Watched it when I was younger. Can't remember but I thought they did a pretty good job with authenticity.
Battle of France done with Spitfires. Should have been Hurricanes since the Spits didn't get sent to France in 1940 :) Loosely based on a Novel by Derek Robinson, which was inspired by or stolen from (depending on who you ask) Paul Richey's wartime book called "Fighter Pilot" about his time flying Hurricanes with 1 Squadron in France.
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I've grown up aggravated by historical inaccuracy's in movies, in particular any move that has to do with aviation. It looks like this is another one I will not waist my time with.
I hope that it can at least properly convey what the men of the 332nd had to go through, just to serve their country. The fact that they had, hand me down equipment, were purposely given the most hazardous ground attack missions (in North Africa), and had to fly 2 to 3 times the number of combat missions of other groups, is a testament to what these men did. They were not some uber fighter group that never lost a bomber (they did record the loss of bombers), but they dealt with a lot of discrimination while fighting for their country.
One of the interesting stories we heard from our old Airwarrior buddy Earl Miller, was that his fighter group, the 350th FG, got hand me down 39s from the 332nd. The 350th flew 39s into August 44 in the MTO before finally getting Jugs. The Red Tails had been in Jugs and then 51s for a bit by then.
My youngest son is African American so I really want this movie to be decent for him. He's got a 1/18th scale Red Tail Mustang hanging in his room and I have to take the pilot out for him every day. He points to the pilot and then to himself indicating that's him. (He's deaf so he's signing it) I was worried that he was going to wear out the pilot as I'd like it to stay intact for when he gets older so I tried to find another he could carry around. All I could find was a 1/18th scale white Mustang pilot. He took one look and set it down. He wanted the black pilot as that's him :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/MustangMatt.jpg)
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And Mace, that was a fairly bizarre rant where if read in the wrong way, seems to convey that indeed the native Americans were in dire need of the genocide we provided for them.
And Jeep, that was a fairly bizarre stretch to take my heartburn with Hollywood's Polyannish depictions of native Americans as innocent cherubs in the Garden of Eden and turn it into a call for genocide.
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That's an awesome photo CorkyGuppyDanJr. :aok
I'd like to have that as a wallpaper
Crew weight 200 lbs!! Hell I'm too fat the fly the 51 :furious No wonder I can't rope anybody :(
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And last but not least, that incredible move by the 51 to shoot the 262...although it turns out it's a 109G and the 262 bit was spliced in to the trailer and appeared to be what the 51 got with his fancy move. Combat flaps and lots of rudder on that 51.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap10-7.jpg)
joachim that 51 spin you see is taken right out of the series Dogfights. Its the imfamous Richard Candelaria kill... The one and only documented to pull this maneuver during WWII :lol
(and yes the 51 can actually do this maneuver but i doubt most real war pilots would ever chance this. even in AH this move is dangerous to pull off as i have learned is a hit or miss... :ahand though spin from the 65th will most likely back me up in saying its possible :neener: )
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And Mace, that was a fairly bizarre rant where if read in the wrong way, seems to convey that indeed the native Americans were in dire need of the genocide we provided for them. We are not a perfect people,
I understood perfectly where Mace was coming from of Hollywood's depiction of only the imperfections of one race, ignoring for example the Soiux's attempted genocide of the Pawnee and them the Arapahoe and them those that came before them in their immutable claim to the Northern plains, not to mention always ignoring the unspeakable tortures visited upon women and children of settlers by the "angelic cherubs."
The thing we have in common as the family of mankind, is that we were all horrible in our own own ways.
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One of the interesting stories we heard from our old Airwarrior buddy Earl Miller, was that his fighter group, the 350th FG, got hand me down 39s from the 332nd. The 350th flew 39s into August 44 in the MTO before finally getting Jugs. The Red Tails had been in Jugs and then 51s for a bit by then.
My youngest son is African American so I really want this movie to be decent for him. He's got a 1/18th scale Red Tail Mustang hanging in his room and I have to take the pilot out for him every day. He points to the pilot and then to himself indicating that's him. (He's deaf so he's signing it) I was worried that he was going to wear out the pilot as I'd like it to stay intact for when he gets older so I tried to find another he could carry around. All I could find was a 1/18th scale white Mustang pilot. He took one look and set it down. He wanted the black pilot as that's him :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/MustangMatt.jpg)
I'm digging the helmet. Looks like he is working on his fighter pilot's face, already :rock
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One of the interesting stories we heard from our old Airwarrior buddy Earl Miller, was that his fighter group, the 350th FG, got hand me down 39s from the 332nd. The 350th flew 39s into August 44 in the MTO before finally getting Jugs. The Red Tails had been in Jugs and then 51s for a bit by then.
My youngest son is African American so I really want this movie to be decent for him. He's got a 1/18th scale Red Tail Mustang hanging in his room and I have to take the pilot out for him every day. He points to the pilot and then to himself indicating that's him. (He's deaf so he's signing it) I was worried that he was going to wear out the pilot as I'd like it to stay intact for when he gets older so I tried to find another he could carry around. All I could find was a 1/18th scale white Mustang pilot. He took one look and set it down. He wanted the black pilot as that's him :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/MustangMatt.jpg)
That's awesome! He's lucky to have you as a parent :aok
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One of the interesting stories we heard from our old Airwarrior buddy Earl Miller, was that his fighter group, the 350th FG, got hand me down 39s from the 332nd. The 350th flew 39s into August 44 in the MTO before finally getting Jugs. The Red Tails had been in Jugs and then 51s for a bit by then.
Well as you know (especially in the MTO) squadrons were constantly getting shuffled around and reorganized. I mean look at how much the the 99th bounced around in it's first year in combat.
33d Fighter Group (29 May 1943 – 29 June 1943)- P-40's
324th Fighter Group (29 June 1943 – 19 July 1943)- P-40's
33d Fighter Group (19 July – 16 October 1943)- P-40's
79th Fighter Group (16 October 1943 – 1 April 1944)- P-39's
324th Fighter Group (1 April – 6 June 1944)- P-39's
86th Fighter Group (11–30 June 1944)- No planes
332nd Fighter Group (1 July 1944)- P-51's
As the 100th, and 300th squadrons got setup in January of 44 they initially had 39's as well, but they wanted to consolidate the fighter group. So the 100th and 300th started the switch to P-47 in March of 44 and then into P-51s about May of 44 (if I remember correctly). So if you were one of the original pilots with the 99th when it deployed you got to fly many different planes before your tour was up.
- P-40F
- P-40L
- P-39Q
- P-47D
- P-51B/C
- P-51D
That's quite a list of planes to fly in less than two years!
BTW great photo! :aok
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If people approach this movie about a historical event developed by a Hollywierdo who's sole purpose is to entertain, then all will be fine. But as soon as people start to nit-pick the tid-bits, then too bad for them. I highly suggest that people remember that this is for entertainment, not historical documentation.
:aok :aok :aok
I swear...Just watch the damn movie for fun....geeesh this is whats wrong with people half the time...some smartass knows to much and just has to prove it.
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Really? under represented? How many Dick Bong, Bud Anderson, 356th, Frank Gabreski movies have you seen? This will make the third Tuskeegee airmen movie I've seen.
Yes there were a lot of recruiting shlock made during the war, and few good bomber movies like Twelve O'Clock high, Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo, but there have been very few movies telling the story of specific American Fighter pilots. I think the Tuskeegee airmen have been well represented, as they should be.
Let's see. There was "Reach for the Sky" about Douglas Bader, there was "Spitfire" about R. Mitchell, there was "The Battle of Britain" among whom were represented Ginger Lacey, 'Sailor' Malan, Keith Park, Hugh Dowding, but to name a few. There was the Television series "Baa Baa Blacksheep" about Greg Boyington, and his squadron, there was the "Joseph McConnell Story", There was "Red Baron" about Richthofen, and "The Blue Max" loosely based on Ernst Udet. Then there's "God is my Co-Pilot" about Bob Scott, Spirit of St. Louis, "Memphis Belle" (two) about Robert Morgan and his crew. There are others such as "30 Seconds Over Tokyo" basically about Ted Lawson, "Dark Blue World" A Czech film about Czech pilots that flew with the RAF, Flying Tigers, Flying Leathernecks, Midway...the list goes on Just because your favorite pilot may not have been singled out for his own feature length film, doesn't mean American, British, or German Aviators have been under represented.
TeeArr.
I didn't say American fighter pilots were under represented. I said the idea that the Tuskeegee airmen were under represented is simply not true by any comparison. :salute
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Battle of France done with Spitfires. Should have been Hurricanes since the Spits didn't get sent to France in 1940 :) Loosely based on a Novel by Derek Robinson, which was inspired by or stolen from (depending on who you ask) Paul Richey's wartime book called "Fighter Pilot" about his time flying Hurricanes with 1 Squadron in France.
Corky, if you lived around the DC area, you would be an awesome docent. I talk to those guys all the time and they have a blast doing it.
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(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/MustangMatt.jpg)
That pic is full of awesome, Guppy.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpA6TC0T_Lw
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Really?
Did we need another thread about this movie?
Please just make it stop... :bhead
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Hasn't there been like 4 threads already?
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Hasn't there been like 4 threads already?
multiply that by 1000 and you got it.
:rolleyes:
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multiply that by 1000 and you got it.
:rolleyes:
:rofl
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multiply that by 1000 and you got it.
:rolleyes:
silly! not even close again that number is well way to low, u MUST go into the 6 digit numbers then mulitply that buy 4to the power of another 6 digit number and thats .0000000001 of the threads that have been made in the past 2 seconds. lol im tired.
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Great film! It should be spammed. :aok
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I'd go easy on the "great" until it comes out. It is Lucas afterall, he didn't even direct the best Star Wars movie. That being said are you guys whining about a WW2 aviation movie getting too much attention in the Aces High forum? Come on.
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u MUST go into the 6 digit numbers then mulitply that buy 4to the power of another 6 digit number
lets not, and say we did? :bolt:
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What is this... maths... you speak of?
x=(-b±√(b^2-4ac))/2a
That stuff?
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I'd go easy on the "great" until it comes out. It is Lucas afterall, he didn't even direct the best Star Wars movie.
Ain't that the truth. Lucas is a BRILLIANT idea man, but he personally sucks at execution. He needs to learn how to come up with the ideas, but then step back and let people who know what they're doing actually MAKE the thing. That's why Empire was the best in the series. He had his input, but he ultimately let his production team actually do their jobs without meddling in it (Doug Chiang once tried to tell Lucas that the proposed design for the Naboo fighters in Episode I wouldn't work--they really don't, either. It's literally physically impossible for Artoo to actually fit in one without resorting to Hammerspace--but George told him to STFU and do the design his way. Then again, when Spielberg did Jaws, Peter Benchley--y'know, the guy who actually WROTE THE DAMN BOOK--told him his revised ending with the shark blowing up was ridiculous, but Spielberg told him to STFU because he wanted to do it his way. So it's not like George has a monopoly on this behavior).
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Spielberg's movie was a lot better than Benchley's book, despite the awzum blowzup shark at the end.
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How did the fish meet his demise in the book?
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How did the fish meet his demise in the book?
IIRC, Quint harpooned it before he died.
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How did the fish meet his demise in the book?
IIRC it gets within a few feet of a helpless Brody and then expires. Not with a bang, but with a whimper, so to speak.
I think the scientist dies too, though in the book he's such a repugnant little gobshite I no longer cared very much what happened to him.
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Gobtoejame is in fact the correct terminology.
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There's a part in the trailer where it shows a Pony taking to the vertical, pulling hard into an almost stall then flipping its nose around for a shot landing hits on a 109. Pretty cool affects.
That sounds a lot like what Bud Anderson did to a 109 in his 'Old Crow' P-51D
..of course his move was a rope instead of a timed vertical engagement
(like I useda do in my Zeke against boom an zoomers way back in DOS AW)
.. principles are sound tho,
..if a guy is at the edge of compressibility in his diving engagement
..he cannot pull up harder (either the plane wont or he will black out),
.. timing is everything.
When it works it is a beautiful thing ..ideally a canopy shot from dead above as the bandit passes under you.
Takes a bit of practice and knowing the bandits capabilities.
ie: tuff to pull off against a Mustang because even at 400ias they can put guns on you while a spit or p-38 are just about ballistic, they cannot deviate from a ballistic arc much due to compressibility.
-Frank
-just sayin, tm Pasha
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IIRC it gets within a few feet of a helpless Brody and then expires. Not with a bang, but with a whimper, so to speak.
I think the scientist dies too, though in the book he's such a repugnant little gobtoejame I no longer cared very much what happened to him.
Yeah Hooper gets pulled out of the shark cage and chomped in the book.
I think Quint gets tangled in a harpoon line, pulled under and drowned, definitely doesn't slide down the deck into the sharks waiting mouth like in the movie.
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One of the best lines of all times. "I think we need a bigger boat"
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One of the best lines of all times. "I think we need a bigger boat"
Ad-libbed, so rumour has it.
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Holy off-topic Batman! Anywho, just saw my first ad for this movie, and it looks awesome. Can't wait to see it!!! :banana:
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Saw the first commercial for it, pissed me off to no end. They ruined it with dubstep. :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
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Looks like more cheezy blue screen FX crap.. Like the actors are an afterthought.. All these crappy movies are like that..
Kinda like that dorky Pearl Harbor movie, but now marketed toward 10yo black boys.. These days hollywood couldn't write a decent comic book!
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Oh please say dubstep was just for the commercial and not for the movies background soundtrack.
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Looks like more cheezy blue screen FX crap.. Like the actors are an afterthought.. All these crappy movies are like that..
Kinda like that dorky Pearl Harbor movie, but now marketed toward 10yo black boys.. These days hollywood couldn't write a decent comic book!
From what I've seen, their actually trying to make it good. At least they have them in different airframes at different points P-40 and P-51
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpA6TC0T_Lw
Looks very good, got a few good actors in it as well.
Hopefully I wont be disappointed.
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If I had a nickel...
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If I had a nickel...
$$$$$$$$$
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happy new year!!!! oh wait...
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If I had a nickel...
You could afford this?...Nickels do add up >.<
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn3F1kBHlqU
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Any movie with WW2 airplanes in it gets my dime. I know the story has been told to many times, I'd rather simply see a movie about the air war period.
That said Ive worn out DVDs of Battle of Britain, Tora...ect. P-51s, B-17s, P-40s, 190s, 109s,262s? I'll be in line opening day.
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A Saints pregame chant? I doubt it and very weak.
:salute 11
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Jb! How you been bud? Hope all is well with the recent move... :salute :cheers:
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I hope the movie doesn't end up like "pearl harbor" last thing I want to see is nuclear carriers in a ww2 love movie.
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Have to Admit I got a tingle when I saw the trailer for Red Tails on TV. Hopefully has a lot of combat scenes and not too much fluff. Based on the Tuskegee Airmen I assume. Hope it's not too much "Hollywood" fantasy.
(http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff435/kwamie42/movies/red_tails.jpg)
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I have not had a Tingle for years :old:
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I saw the trailer on TV. CGI was not up to snuff in the scenes they showed.
I will probably not be spending money to see it. Looked like a waste of time.
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I saw the trailer on TV. CGI was not up to snuff in the scenes they showed.
I will probably not be spending money to see it. Looked like a waste of time.
Its Kinda hard to picture LucasFilm LTD bombing on CGI in 2011. http://www.redtails2012.com/airfieldbase.html?dogfight=true#/trailers
Its very hard guaging on TV , or monitor, how a movie is going to look on big screen. Todays digital theatres deliver an immersion that cant be replicated outside of them. And Loud? They are so LOUD nowdays.
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I viewed it on a 61" LED with DLP. Surround sound was on.
The trailer was poor.
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Saw another trailer for Red Tails the other night and the musical score was to RAP. That 100% seals the deal that I will not waste any money to support Hollywood revisionist caca del toro.
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Saw another trailer for Red Tails the other night and the musical score was to RAP. That 100% seals the deal that I will not waste any money to support Hollywood revisionist caca del toro.
Yeah, the choice of trailer music REALLY has any bearing whatsoever on the movie itself. Marketing firms make trailers, not the filmmakers.
A movie about an all-black fighter squadron during WWII facing racial adversity by their own countrymen while proving themselves in battle? Gee, who do you think your target audience is going to be? What's one of the most popular forms of "music" in that target audience? What's a quick way to grab the attention of that target audience when they're flipping channels or watching previews before another film?
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Yeah, the choice of trailer music REALLY has any bearing whatsoever on the movie itself. Marketing firms make trailers, not the filmmakers.
A movie about an all-black fighter squadron during WWII facing racial adversity by their own countrymen while proving themselves in battle? Gee, who do you think your target audience is going to be? What's one of the most popular forms of "music" in that target audience? What's a quick way to grab the attention of that target audience when they're flipping channels or watching previews before another film?
Target audience would be WWII buffs not the musically challenged.
As I was told last night.... the movie might be good for someone with no knowledge of the Tuskegee Airmen. Doubt it will be historically accurate in much of any way. Might be entertaining.
Hopefully, as all seem to be saying here in defense of the movie, the music and the graphics will not be the same as in the trailers.
Funny ... I always thought they put some of the best parts in trailers.
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Funny ... I always thought they put some of the best parts in trailers.
They put the parts they think will snag their target demographic for that trailer. Want white rash teenagers? Toilet humor and the promise of partial nudity. Want women? Love story and weeping. Want older filmgoers? Make it look like a nostalgic throwback. Families? It's ANIMATED!
90% of trailers have nothing to do with the films they advertize, and many blatantly use footage and dialogue that doesn't even appear in the film. If the CG isn't up to snuff, chances are they either got hold of it before it was fully finished to get the trailers out on time, or it was cut before being completed and they started over. Trailers coming out months ahead of the release date are notorious for this, because they often haven't completed the film until a week or two before it releases.
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Anyone catch Lucas w/ Jon Stewart last night plugging this movie? I missed it.
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Yeah, he says he's written a prequel and a sequel already and been trying to get Red Tails made for the past 20 years but couldn't get the funding.
You can see it on comedy central's website or here commercial free (2 popups to close) http://www.tubeplus.me/player/1970376/The_Daily_Show/season_17/episode_4/George_Lucas/
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or it reairs 6PM EST on Comedy Central tonight.
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white rash
Ouch, you might want to get a doctor to look at that. :old: :neener:
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I would love to see a BoB style mini-series about the Mighty Eighth... If they must tell stories about racial diversity during the war, why must they keep telling the the same one over and over? I think a film about the Red Ball Express would be cool and I'd pay to see it.
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Target audience would be WWII buffs not the musically challenged.
Of the film itself, yes. But don't tell me the marketing department managing this film wouldn't try to squeeze as much money out of race as they can.
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I would love to see a BoB style mini-series about the Mighty Eighth... If they must tell stories about racial diversity during the war, why must they keep telling the the same one over and over? I think a film about the Red Ball Express would be cool and I'd pay to see it.
+1 on the 8th Air Force. And this story is overplayed because of the incessant pandering to a certain demographic. And speaking of such, the "WE FIGHT!" chant in the trailer reminds me of what an NFL football team does before a game. 100% chance that that never happened in WWII. The CGI may end up good, but the story will be the same "overcoming discrimination and being better than everyone else" propaganda rehashed again. Waiting for it to come out on Netflix.
What about the Japanese Americans who were imprisoned and given the choice, fought for their country over in Europe?
Look up Medal of Honor winner Daniel Inouye: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Inouye
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or it reairs 6PM EST on Comedy Central tonight.
That is my plan, but I often get stuck at work late.
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That is my plan, but I often get stuck at work late.
Yeah, the website usually has it up the next day. http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/mon-january-9-2012-george-lucas
It was a interesting interview, Lucas was making some bold statements.
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Yeah, he says he's written a prequel and a sequel already and been trying to get Red Tails made for the past 20 years but couldn't get the funding.
You can see it on comedy central's website or here commercial free (2 popups to close) http://www.tubeplus.me/player/1970376/The_Daily_Show/season_17/episode_4/George_Lucas/
Take anything on the Daily Show with a hefty load of salt, but the part about him trying to get it going for 20 years is true and not a bit of self-referencial humor. A 1993 issue of Starlog (#191) shows Lucas began the project as early as 1988.
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Take anything on the Daily Show with a hefty load of salt, but the part about him trying to get it going for 20 years is true and not a bit of self-referencial humor. A 1993 issue of Starlog (#191) shows Lucas began the project as early as 1988.
Did you watch the episode? Lucas discusses the prequel and sequel a bit, basically saying he was going to see how this movie did.
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Well "Dam Busters" is on Netflix so I guess I'll screen that tonight. There isnt much of a stream of WW2 flight movies coming down the pipe and thats the main reason I'll sit thru RedTails once at least.
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I said it before, but how the biggest WW2 aircraft nerds on the planet (that would be everyone posting in this thread) can say they aren't going to see this movie for something lame like "they had rap music in the trailer", is completely retarded. If after the movie comes out, and there's no rap music in it, you still won't see it? I'd have to use the other R word to describe you.
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I said it before, but how the biggest WW2 aircraft nerds on the planet (that would be everyone posting in this thread) can say they aren't going to see this movie for something lame like "they had rap music in the trailer", is completely retarded. If after the movie comes out, and there's no rap music in it, you still won't see it? I'd have to use the other R word to describe you.
lolzs... Of course, that must be it.
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You can watch 7 minutes here: http://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/01/10/red-tails-seven-minutes-lucas/
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Its Kinda hard to picture LucasFilm LTD bombing on CGI in 2011. http://www.redtails2012.com/airfieldbase.html?dogfight=true#/trailers
Its very hard guaging on TV , or monitor, how a movie is going to look on big screen. Todays digital theatres deliver an immersion that cant be replicated outside of them. And Loud? They are so LOUD nowdays.
This trailer makes me want to see it more than the trailer I saw on TV. On TV the CGI looked terrible, in this trailer it looks really well done.
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Well?
Will this movie be EPIC?
Like SPR, The Pacific, Band of Brothers, Wild Geese, Cross of Iron, Platoon, Untergang, etc??
With great plot, tremendous acting that stands on its own, and great realistic battle scenes..
Or pathetic, silly cheerleader kid stuff?
Like Pearl Harbor, GIJoe, Iron man, Transformers, blah blah..
No believable plot, acting from grammer school quanza pageant, and cheezy CGI battle scenes?
You see, geeks to make Cheezy CG, cost less than good actors..
And lame CG is less embarrassing to the film makers, than bad actors, lol!
And besides, there aren't many good actors around anymore..
Sounds like Blacksploitation again, like the ghetto avenger B/flicks from the 70's.
A military themed, "Imma gonna git you sucka".. Just in time for THC's "black history month" too, lol..
Go figure?
So which will it be,
Any bets??
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So which will it be,
Any bets??
I think that'll be a nice PNG.
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I think that'll be a nice PNG.
What??? This is a hollywood production right?
Just being real? That IS the game in hollywood ya know!
It's all about money, not quality.. This is an exploitation film..
WORTHY FILMS on this, have already been done..
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Late to this thread, but Red Tails has been in the can since 2009 if I remember correctly. They must have put one hell of a CGI job on it to take this long. I doubt the story will be anything close to historically accurate beyond a few facts. What I have seen is a mishmosh of ACM credited to the Red Tails that didn't necessarily happen.
But, it is a movie.
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Why do I feel like it is just this:
(http://www.teachwithmovies.org/guides/tuskegee-airmen-DVDcover.jpg)
but with CGI?
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I said it before, but how the biggest WW2 aircraft nerds on the planet (that would be everyone posting in this thread) can say they aren't going to see this movie for something lame like "they had rap music in the trailer", is completely retarded. If after the movie comes out, and there's no rap music in it, you still won't see it? I'd have to use the other R word to describe you.
From this post I'd say you're an advertisers dream............ kool-aid and all.
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Watch the Lucas interview on Jon Stewart, if you believe Lucas, this movie was NOT about money, at least for him. Obviously the production companies in Hollywood want to make money, and it sounds like they didn't think this movie could do that, part of the reason it took Lucas so long to get this made (23 years).
To me, it looks like there will be a lot of CGI, for obvious reasons, apparently they can't build 1000 working WWII aircraft and then shoot them done, weird right? Some of it looks a little cheezy, but it's Hollywood, it's almost always cheezy. This crowd might be a tough sell for this movie, some of you get way way to caught up in historical accurate information (not that it's not important, but getting caught up on the color of the instrument panel guarantees you won't enjoy this movie).
I for one am glad that a (hopefully mostly accurate) WWII movie is hitting the mainstream. There are too many people who don't know the story of the Tuskegee airman, and if they can be informed and entertained at the same time, all the better. Maybe we'll get a few new players out of the deal.
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as long as they don't try to perpetuate the "never lost a bomber" nonesense...
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Watch the Lucas interview on Jon Stewart, if you believe Lucas, this movie was NOT about money, at least for him. Obviously the production companies in Hollywood want to make money, and it sounds like they didn't think this movie could do that, part of the reason it took Lucas so long to get this made (23 years).
To me, it looks like there will be a lot of CGI, for obvious reasons, apparently they can't build 1000 working WWII aircraft and then shoot them done, weird right? Some of it looks a little cheezy, but it's Hollywood, it's almost always cheezy. This crowd might be a tough sell for this movie, some of you get way way to caught up in historical accurate information (not that it's not important, but getting caught up on the color of the instrument panel guarantees you won't enjoy this movie).
I for one am glad that a (hopefully mostly accurate) WWII movie is hitting the mainstream. There are too many people who don't know the story of the Tuskegee airman, and if they can be informed and entertained at the same time, all the better. Maybe we'll get a few new players out of the deal.
I fully agree but still havent gotten to see the interview yet. Also, if I recall some history about Mr. Lucas, he started toying with a camera in dirt lots next to his house with his budies. A favorite genre of theirs: WWII. I wouldn't doubt that he has wanted to do something like this for a long time.
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I am very excited (still) I will be going to see it Jan 20th.
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Of the film itself, yes. But don't tell me the marketing department managing this film wouldn't try to squeeze as much money out of race as they can.
They were talking on the news a while back about a study that was done earlier this year and found that of all americans, African Americans spend a lot more money per capita on going to the movies than any other demographic. And are also likely too see a good movie in a theatre more than once. Regardless of whether or not this had any bearing on them finally deciding to make this film, I'm very happy that they made it and can't wait to spend a years worth of aces high on seeing it and enjoying a large movie theatre soda with a bucket of movie theatre heart attack helper with extra butter.
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I am very excited (still) I will be going to see it Jan 20th.
Me too :aok
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At least I guess we can be thankful that Lucas didn't actually direct this. Given his fetish for cutting off hands (or limbs) in the Star Wars movies I keep having these nightmares about all those twirling props.
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I wonder if HiTech put money into the advertising of Ace High II in this movie?
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I wonder if HiTech put money into the advertising of Ace High II in this movie?
The product placement was less than subtle. After missions the pilots unwind buy hooking up to the internet and showing the rest of us in the MA how it's really done. :ahand
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My father in law talked the local theater into giving him the floor-to-ceiling movie poster from the lobby after they're done with it. I expect his Tuskegee P-40 and P-51 models will be hung in front of it and an altar placed to burn the proper incense within a week. :rolleyes:
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(http://collider.com/wp-content/uploads/red-tails-image-41.jpg)
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With exception to it looking like it's never even been kissed by any oil, looks fantastic.
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I said it before, but how the biggest WW2 aircraft nerds on the planet (that would be everyone posting in this thread) can say they aren't going to see this movie for something lame like "they had rap music in the trailer", is completely retarded. If after the movie comes out, and there's no rap music in it, you still won't see it? I'd have to use the other R word to describe you.
Stick it in your arse buddy before you try and allude to me being an effing racist.
This movie is yet another focus on the same story line that will be factually challenged while leaving out many different other alternatives that have never been told.
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Stick it in your arse buddy before you try and allude to me being an effing racist.
This movie is yet another focus on the same story line that will be factually challenged while leaving out many different other alternatives that have never been told.
So I guess you got an advanced screener that the rest of us haven't seen?
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I said it before, but how the biggest WW2 aircraft nerds on the planet (that would be everyone posting in this thread) can say they aren't going to see this movie for something lame like "they had rap music in the trailer", is completely retarded. If after the movie comes out, and there's no rap music in it, you still won't see it? I'd have to use the other R word to describe you.
Interesting concept, no matter what kind of dreck is produced, if you don't choose to see it, you're a racist? Kind of narrow
minded reason to call folks names. Like others have mentioned, this movie is targeted at a specific audience. That audience
<from the trailers anyway> does not appear to be history buffs. :rolleyes:
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Interesting concept, no matter what kind of dreck is produced, if you don't choose to see it, you're a racist? Kind of narrow
minded reason to call folks names. Like others have mentioned, this movie is targeted at a specific audience. That audience
<from the trailers anyway> does not appear to be history buffs. :rolleyes:
In the Stewart interview, Lucas said he wanted to make the movie as an inspiration to teenage boys.
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Interesting concept, no matter what kind of dreck is produced, if you don't choose to see it, you're a racist? Kind of narrow
minded reason to call folks names. Like others have mentioned, this movie is targeted at a specific audience. That audience
<from the trailers anyway> does not appear to be history buffs. :rolleyes:
You know as well as many here that the racist is usually the one who pulls the racist card.
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Watching the trailer the other day, saw that move where a P-51 does a nose over stall in front of an oncoming 109. Then as it gets nose down, it fires at a high deflection angle right as the 109 passes under and flames him.
Too bad in real life the 109 would have just nosed up 15 degrees and been able to blast the mustang as it sat motionless in a stall, the proverbial aBB hanging in the breeze. :x
Anyway I have this sinking suspicion the movie will be as cliche as possible, but the special affects will be good. :salute
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Watching the trailer the other day, saw that move where a P-51 does a nose over stall in front of an oncoming 109. Then as it gets nose down, it fires at a high deflection angle right as the 109 passes under and flames him.
Too bad in real life the 109 would have just nosed up 15 degrees and been able to blast the mustang as it sat motionless in a stall, the proverbial aBB hanging in the breeze. :x
Anyway I have this sinking suspicion the movie will be as cliche as possible, but the special affects will be good. :salute
that move in the trailer has actually been done by a pilot. His name was Richard Candelaria. The time he did it is the only recorded time a pilot had flown a mustang during that type of stall in combat during WWII. so yes chiche :aok
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seen the move in game as well, it occured while in a tight turn though. I was trying to pull to get my nose on the guy within 200yds infront of me and he did this sort of a cartwheeling flail thing. He peppered me and I could not bring myself to lose the speed quick enough to get any shot. Speeds were low and riding the stall up until the guy did it...I forget it it was a p-51or not
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The movie used artistic licence to show a actual event. The interview with the pilot is really good.
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I've got no problem with any potential story line...as long as it stays away from the "myths" surrounding the unit. Stick to the facts as much as possible....they will speak more eloquently of the units accomplishments than some of the "they were the perfect unit" guff.
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If, like some say, you approach it as just entertainment it may be fine.
The actual story is interesting.
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There were many things that happened during the war that defy explaination.
When your in the heat of battle and in the hot seat, you'll do anything to get out of the situation. Sometimes successful and sometimes not.
Prevailing winds, temperature, ground conditions (dark ot light... thermals), all play into what happens. It may not be repeatable without everything just so.
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There were many things that happened during the war that defy explaination.
When your in the heat of battle and in the hot seat, you'll do anything to get out of the situation. Sometimes successful and sometimes not.
Prevailing winds, temperature, ground conditions (dark ot light... thermals), all play into what happens. It may not be repeatable without everything just so.
Agreed! :aok
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After watching "Dogfights" today about the 332nd and then "Double Victory" this evening, my little Red Tail and I are ready for the movie. I'll teach him the history when he gets older. We're going to just enjoy seeing red tail Mustangs on a big screen :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/RedTail-1.jpg)
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After watching "Dogfights" today about the 332nd and then "Double Victory" this evening, my little Red Tail and I are ready for the movie. I'll teach him the history when he gets older. We're going to just enjoy seeing red tail Mustangs on a big screen :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/RedTail-1.jpg)
I'm going to wait and the review from you two before I spend any money on it. :D
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After watching "Dogfights" today about the 332nd and then "Double Victory" this evening, my little Red Tail and I are ready for the movie. I'll teach him the history when he gets older. We're going to just enjoy seeing red tail Mustangs on a big screen :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/RedTail-1.jpg)
How DARE you enjoy a movie for entertainment and not historical reasons?!
Lucky kid...
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After watching "Dogfights" today about the 332nd and then "Double Victory" this evening, my little Red Tail and I are ready for the movie. I'll teach him the history when he gets older. We're going to just enjoy seeing red tail Mustangs on a big screen :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/RedTail-1.jpg)
i watched the same ones :) your little guy looks like he's ready for the full CH setup! hook him up dad!
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After watching "Dogfights" today about the 332nd and then "Double Victory" this evening, my little Red Tail and I are ready for the movie. I'll teach him the history when he gets older. We're going to just enjoy seeing red tail Mustangs on a big screen :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/RedTail-1.jpg)
There is another WW2 story he, and all, should also hear told. That of the 761'st Tank battalion who fought under George Patton. Or the brave drivers of The Red Ball Express without whom the army couldnt have moved.
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There is another WW2 story he, and all, should also hear told. That of the 761'st Tank battalion who fought under George Patton. Or the brave drivers of The Red Ball Express without whom the army couldnt have moved.
I know of the stories. He'll learn em all in time. You should see the book shelves around here :) Since WW2 aviation has been my passion for the last 40 years +, he, like my older son, gets the airplanes first :aok
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After watching "Dogfights" today about the 332nd and then "Double Victory" this evening, my little Red Tail and I are ready for the movie. I'll teach him the history when he gets older. We're going to just enjoy seeing red tail Mustangs on a big screen :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/RedTail-1.jpg)
The wife and I have date for it next Saturday. We watch the same programs last night. :lol
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There is another WW2 story he, and all, should also hear told. That of the 761'st Tank battalion who fought under George Patton. Or the brave drivers of The Red Ball Express without whom the army couldnt have moved.
761st being inherently superior to any of the others due to it being an armored formation.
(http://www.army.mil/-images/2007/02/09/2601/army.mil-2007-02-09-150539.jpg)
:rock
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Yeah, I don't think the 761st will be getting any movies made.'
Not after what Patton said about them.
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Yeah, I don't think the 761st will be getting any movies made.'
Not after what Patton said about them.
Patton's an overrated prima-donna who only got such success out of his troops because he drove them nearly to death and didn't give two s***s about casualties as long as they were moving forward. He's the US Army's Twentieth Century version of Custer, only this time with the numbers and equipment to back his monstrous ego instead of just a Regiment against a whole alliance.
Not to mention he was a bigoted ass.
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I'd take Bradley over Patton, myself.
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:x :x :joystick: :x :bolt:
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I'd take Bradley over Patton, myself.
Agreed.
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Patton's an overrated prima-donna who only got such success out of his troops because he drove them nearly to death and didn't give two s***s about casualties as long as they were moving forward. He's the US Army's Twentieth Century version of Custer, only this time with the numbers and equipment to back his monstrous ego instead of just a Regiment against a whole alliance.
Not to mention he was a bigoted ass.
Patton the heartless, bigoted, egotistic A-Hole. I learn something new every day.
-Penguin
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Patton's an overrated prima-donna who only got such success out of his troops because he drove them nearly to death and didn't give two s***s about casualties as long as they were moving forward. He's the US Army's Twentieth Century version of Custer, only this time with the numbers and equipment to back his monstrous ego instead of just a Regiment against a whole alliance.
Not to mention he was a bigoted ass.
You are correct.
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Some preview clips here,
http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/fox/redtails/
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Skuzzy has another thread to move to the O'Club. :uhoh
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In the Stewart interview, Lucas said he wanted to make the movie as an inspiration to teenage boys.
And... because, chyaknow... Lucas's good budy, Mr. HiTech, tipped him off on all that money that there is to be made targeting us ol'-duffer WWII-aviation-history fans. :noid :aok
Patton the heartless, bigoted, egotistic A-Hole. I learn something new every day.
-Penguin
He had a heart.... it was just made outa the same cold steel as his tanks, and issued to him by the Army.
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Patton the heartless, bigoted, egotistic A-Hole. I learn something new every day.
-Penguin
He had a heart.... it was just made outa the same cold steel as his tanks.
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Patton's an overrated prima-donna who only got such success out of his troops because he drove them nearly to death and didn't give two s***s about casualties as long as they were moving forward. He's the US Army's Twentieth Century version of Custer, only this time with the numbers and equipment to back his monstrous ego instead of just a Regiment against a whole alliance.
Not to mention he was a bigoted ass.
I think Patton changed over time, the performance of the 761'st helping to educate him. Just like it changed the infantrymen the 761'st supported. Just like the Army changed ; Just like the country changed. If theres one hisorical fact that pisses me off its the fact that German POWs in America could walk into a PX, or sit at a lunch counter, when American soldiers of color, fresh from the fighting, could not. That will always be a permanent stain on our history.
But in combat, with the bullets flying, racism didnt last one second.
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He had a heart.... it was just made outa the same cold steel as his tanks, and issued to him by the Army.
Problem was the crews of said tanks were flesh and blood and that cold steel wasn't very thick.
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Looks like they're not pre-screening for critics. Several other movies opening on the 20th have reviews up on RottenTomatoes, but nothing yet about Red Tails.
Edit:
Interesting article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/magazine/george-lucas-red-tails.html?pagewanted=all
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Saw some pictures elsewhere. Someone must have gotten to them about the 8th AF tail markings as some new images show a more generic 15th AF tail marking on the 17s. Either way it will have big planes on the screen. That can't be a bad thing :)
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Looks like they're not pre-screening for critics. Several other movies opening on the 20th have reviews up on RottenTomatoes, but nothing yet about Red Tails.
Edit:
Interesting article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/magazine/george-lucas-red-tails.html?pagewanted=all
I like this quote
For a model, Lucas studied flag-waving World War II films like Nicholas Ray’s “Flying Leathernecks,” which starred John Wayne. “We made movies like this during the war, and everybody just loved them,” he said. “I said, ‘There’s no reason why that idealism, that kind of naïveté, can’t still exist.’ ”
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Yep.
I think Lucas is a bit overly defensive on the whole studio executive cuts thing. Yes, sometimes executives can destroy a film by mandating changes (take a look at Kingdom of Heaven. Ridley Scott's director's cut was by FAR superior to the theatrical release, restoring several MAJOR subplots and even details of the main plot). However sometimes a filmmaker NEEDS to be put on a leash, and those changes and cuts end up for the better. Part of the reason the original Star Wars films (and especially Empire) are so much more highly regarded than the prequels was because Lucas did NOT have free reign to do things exactly as he pleased.
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Looks like they're not pre-screening for critics. Several other movies opening on the 20th have reviews up on RottenTomatoes, but nothing yet about Red Tails.
Edit:
Interesting article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/magazine/george-lucas-red-tails.html?pagewanted=all
I read about 1/4 of it..... seemed blah blah blah.
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Yep.
I think Lucas is a bit overly defensive on the whole studio executive cuts thing. Yes, sometimes executives can destroy a film by mandating changes (take a look at Kingdom of Heaven. Ridley Scott's director's cut was by FAR superior to the theatrical release, restoring several MAJOR subplots and even details of the main plot). However sometimes a filmmaker NEEDS to be put on a leash, and those changes and cuts end up for the better. Part of the reason the original Star Wars films (and especially Empire) are so much more highly regarded than the prequels was because Lucas did NOT have free reign to do things exactly as he pleased.
I thought the Pre-quels were better movies with the exception of the two people who played Anakin Skywalker. The young kid (Jake Lloyd) was too goody-goody, and nausiatingly virtuous and humble to sow the seeds that he would grow up to be Darth Vader. Hayden Christensen who played grown up Anakin was such a bad actor he couldn't portay the Charming cockiness required to be a love interest for Queen Amadala, nor the the imature, insecure, self-obsessed, narcisist that could be seduced by the dark side. Two better actors could have made them great movies. Oh and subtract Jar-Jar Binks, how ruined every scene he was in.
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strangely the two of em strafing the destroyer is true... :ahand
at least they got one of their many stories right :aok
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Just bought tickets for me and my 15 year old brother. We'll see it on Friday in between when he gets out of school and I fly in FSO!
That little booger better remember his school ID :furious
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I bought my tickets for the 11:45am showing already, I'm hoping the movie turns out well.
Regardless, after working a 14 day stretch, going to the movies alone without the wife or the kids is just the break I need. :aok
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Patton's an overrated prima-donna who only got such success out of his troops because he drove them nearly to death and didn't give two s***s about casualties as long as they were moving forward. He's the US Army's Twentieth Century version of Custer, only this time with the numbers and equipment to back his monstrous ego instead of just a Regiment against a whole alliance.
Not to mention he was a bigoted ass.
You obviously have spent no amount of serious time studying the man.
Yes he drove his men. But he cared a great deal about casualties very much. Which is why he drove his men so hard,
As for his bigotry. It was no better or worse then was the common attitude of the time.
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I just hope he doesn't flub it too bad.
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You obviously have spent no amount of serious time studying the man.
Yes he drove his men. But he cared a great deal about casualties very much. Which is why he drove his men so hard,
As for his bigotry. It was no better or worse then was the common attitude of the time.
Agreed, same argument goes towards Rommel - he drove his men to the same standards as he drove himself, he ate the same rations as his men.
Unless you read a few books on both men (not wikipedia..) its a long discussion.
/only love-hate I have is for MacArthur
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Agreed, same argument goes towards Rommel - he drove his men to the same standards as he drove himself, he ate the same rations as his men.
Unless you read a few books on both men (not wikipedia..) its a long discussion.
/only love-hate I have is for MacArthur
Both Rommel and Patton believed the best way to limit casualties was in victory. Hopefully quick victory. All three Generals mentioned here had as their greatst sin "pride". They were made into the Rock Stars of their day, even bigger. Patton, Rommel, and MacArthur all proved themselves in combat during The Great War. If I remember right all three were injured during it as well. These were not "paper Generals" Like Ike.
Of the three the easiest to hate is probably MacArthur. His ego knew no bounds. On one hand he abandoned his troops in the Phillipines. On the other hand his strategy saved countless allied lives by bypassing strategically meaningless Jap garrisons, on strategically meaningless Islands, and just leaving them to starve as he gained back the south pacific. He gave Hirohito and the Royal family a pass on war crimes yet quickly turned Japan into a functioning Democracy and a bastion against communism in Asia. Of the three he was probably the greatest pure Intellectual. He had great Political skills yet he secretly despised Politicians.
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Of the three the easiest to hate is probably MacArthur. His ego knew no bounds. On one hand he abandoned his troops in the Phillipines. On the other hand his strategy saved countless allied lives by bypassing strategically meaningless Jap garrisons, on strategically meaningless Islands, and just leaving them to starve as he gained back the south pacific. He gave Hirohito and the Royal family a pass on war crimes yet quickly turned Japan into a functioning Democracy and a bastion against communism in Asia. Of the three he was probably the greatest pure Intellectual. He had great Political skills yet he secretly despised Politicians.
IIRC, MacArthur didn't "abandon" anything. He was pretty much dragged kicking and screaming out of there by direct order.
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IIRC, MacArthur didn't "abandon" anything. He was pretty much dragged kicking and screaming out of there by direct order.
Still, I am a little against the idea that he left his troops the way he did, and secondly in korea took a huge huge gamble on the Inchon Landing.
unnecessary risk is always a topic I try to avoid, (same with politics, religion and war) - He might of saved lives, but with a stroke of luck it didn't happen.
I've always had interesting hatred towards field commanders who did this, took any kind of unnecessary risks, although in war time things have to happen.
And sometimes they simply have no choice, prime example is the Hürtgen Forest, I always questioned the tactical sense of this entire operation.
Then again I think its honestly better I stop this topic before it gets out of hand for the wrong reasons.
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On the other hand his strategy saved countless allied lives by bypassing strategically meaningless Jap garrisons, on strategically meaningless Islands, and just leaving them to starve as he gained back the south pacific.
I disagree to that blanket statement as MacArthur could of bypassed the Philippines and instead focused on the islands surrounding Japan, bringing the war to an end sooner. Even the Japanese military were surprised the Philippines got that attention when it clearly wasn't an important target as it was isolated already. The only good thing to come out of the Letye invasion (other than the Phillippino people being free, once again) is the fact the Japanese threw the last of their Naval assets into losing battle.
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I disagree to that blanket statement as MacArthur could of bypassed the Philippines and instead focused on the islands surrounding Japan, bringing the war to an end sooner. Even the Japanese military were surprised the Philippines got that attention when it clearly wasn't an important target as it was isolated already. The only good thing to come out of the Letye invasion (other than the Phillippino people being free, once again) is the fact the Japanese threw the last of their Naval assets into losing battle.
In the end how do you bypass the Phillipines when a promise was made to return? At the time it was a huge morale statement and not invading would have meant leaving the Philipino people, and many POWs, at the mercy of their tormentors even longer. Plus, as you arleady said, the IJN was basically an empty shell after the campaign. The American/Phillipines relationship was very close in those days. It just would have been politically impossable to bypass the Islands most of all when Japan had left such a large force there. Most of all when the Philipino people had fought on with so much courage in a guerrilla campaign.
Its difficult to bypass 400,000 enemy troops when your mission is to destroy them. Also the IJA units were commanded by the brilliant Jap General Tomoyuki Yamatshida "curse blocker wont let me spell it right" and he was a guy you didnt want to leave running Loose. After the war he was railroaded for war crimes, by both MacArthur and Hirohito, even tho he had declared Manila a free city and it was mostly IJN marines who went on rampage there. MacArther hated the guy cause he never defeated The Tiger of Malaysia in combat. Even in the Phillipines the Tiger held out until Hirohitos direct order forced him to surrender. Had Japans feudal Military Govt. listened to geniuses like Yamatoejama and Yamamoto the war could have gone much different.
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In the end how do you bypass the Phillipines when a promise was made to return?
Even in the Phillipines the Tiger held out until Hirohitos direct order forced him to surrender. Had Japans feudal Military Govt. listened to geniuses like Yamatoejama and Yamamoto the war could have gone much different.
Those two statements helped my argument...
1. A general made the promise, not Congress nor the Commander in Chief. MacArthur usurping the power of the President is EXACTLY the reason Truman sacked him in Korea. A general needs to follow orders, just like any other soldier and not make policy.
2. The fact that the Japanese forces didn't surrender on the Philippines until Hirohito commanded it is a good point. If the Philippines were bypassed and the war was over 3 months earlier, Hirohito would of demanded all his forces surrender a few months earlier, saving more American soldiers and possibly some Of the Philippine populace as well.
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Those two statements helped my argument...
1. A general made the promise, not Congress nor the Commander in Chief. MacArthur usurping the power of the President is EXACTLY the reason Truman sacked him in Korea. A general needs to follow orders, just like any other soldier and not make policy.
2. The fact that the Japanese forces didn't surrender on the Philippines until Hirohito commanded it is a good point. If the Philippines were bypassed and the war was over 3 months earlier, Hirohito would of demanded all his forces surrender a few months earlier, saving more American soldiers and possibly some Of the Philippine populace as well.
Another good fact is that Philippines could not of been bypassed, it was one of the largest Naval, Air and Land campaigns of World War two.
Leyte Gulf was the nail in the coffin for the Japanese Navy, also it cut off all free oil from Balikpapan and Palembang - which were extremely vital with oil, the Japanese still could run from Singapore, to Thailand, southern china - but the risk of it when the American's took Philippines was a huge problem.
The Japanese were basically protecting this vital oil which already in short supply, By taking Manila and advancing to northern Philippines it put Bangkok in danger as well as the shipping lanes used to transport oil.
I am quite surprised the American's didn't choose Java or Palembang as an offensive, with soerabaja and batavia a pretty viable target to launch a strike on Singapore, then again I see the U.S. were heading straight for Japan rather then take time to cut off these vital areas.
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WOO HOO! Sitting in the theater right now, waiting for the movie to start. Will report in with details. :banana: :airplane:
More to come...
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I'm gonna see it Saturday Matinee.
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I'm gonna see it Saturday Matinee.
Wife ack deployed chaff on ME! She learns well... Won two free tickets from a local radio station so I took the only ungrounded kid with.
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WOO HOO! Sitting in the theater right now, waiting for the movie to start. Will report in with details. :banana: :airplane:
More to come...
No spoilers plz... but your opinion of the movie shall suffice. :D
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No spoilers plz... but your opinion of the movie shall suffice. :D
Of course.
well, this one.. Hitler dies...
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Of course.
well, this one.. Hitler dies...
Hitler's still pissed the Packers missed the NFL playoffs this year... <insert link to hitlers rampage video #992394234824>
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Of course.
well, this one.. Hitler dies...
YOU'VE RUINED IT!!! :furious :furious
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IIRC, MacArthur didn't "abandon" anything. He was pretty much dragged kicking and screaming out of there by direct order.
This is true. But not all of those left behind agree he should have listened.
There used to be a guy that worked where my mom did when I was a teenager who was one of those left behind and was very bitter at MacArthur leaving and his "shall return statement"
"Yea that (expletive) said. "I shall return." We never (expletive) left."
and would go on ranting about him. Man oh man he hated that man. And I mean LOATH hate. He said alot of guys felt very betrayed by him for following that order.
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Ok gents, here goes.
I enjoyed it! The opening scene was fun, but then again every time they were in the air I liked it. It is probably the closest I will ever come to Data Recovery Labs??????????????Data Recovery Labs??????????????Data Recovery Labs??????????????Data Recovery Labs??????????????Data Recovery Labs??????????????Data Recovery Labs??????????????Data Recovery Labs??????????????Data Recovery Labs??????????????&@r &@r 275922982MltCpy2.10 FILL FILLed Sector; ST500DM002-9YN14 (CC4H) S1D5GMZY Data Recovery Labs??????????????Data Recovery Labs??????????????Data Recovery Labs??????????????Data Recovery Labs??????????????Data Recovery Labs?????????????? forced to choke on. The dialog was so poor at times that even Cuba Gooding Jr. looked like a soft-core porn actress trying to go main stream. I had hoped for more depth here, intelligent conversation or decent character development. Heck! I'd have settled for dialog that approached normal conversation instead of the wooden, dry bread, overly simplified and overly obvious interaction the characters often had. There was often enough cheese that I had to wonder if the Wisconsin Dairy Board had paid for product placement. I seem to remember hearing that they were targeting a specific audience... Apparently it is the "don't bore me with talk, give me 'splosions" crowd. I had an eight year old with me and the dialog never even came close to going over his head.
On a positive note, this wasn't Titanic or Pearl Harbor with its history sprinkled into a love story BS. Is there a little romance? Yes, but it's predictable. Though, they are probably some of the best acted scenes in the movie and the only time you get ANY character development or depth.
Here's where many of you will get grumpy. The added a good dose of Hollywood to your history. Without revealing any specifics, there are a few scenes that are, shall we say, a stretch. I don't mind a few historical liberties in a movie because, first and foremost, it's entertainment, but there are some parts that will get :furious and :bhead from you :old: out there.
Over all, I'd give it a five out of ten stars. I didn't go in with any great expectations so I wasn't really let down too much. Eliminate some of the "acting" and add more CGI dog fights and it would get a lot more stars because THAT is what I wanted to see more than the rest. It does earn eleventy stars out of ten from my eight year old. I happily endured the ride home answering as many questions as my limited knowledge could bare and listened to the rave review about how cool this or that was, and that one time the one thing did that other thing, and I think that there is the point. This movie wasn't made for those of us who are "in the know." It was made to imbue the rest with perhaps just a little curiosity. I don't expect that it will turn its target demographic into rabid historians but perhaps it will grab a few.
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which were extremely vital with oil, the Japanese still could run from Singapore, to Thailand, southern china - but the risk of it when the American's took Philippines was a huge problem.
By then, the Japanese tanker fleet was so badly decimated and hunted by American submarines they couldn't move the fuel to the home islands. In fact, many of their ships weren't even anchored at the home islands for just that reason.
the critical line between Singapore and Japan, efficiency declined by 45% between May 1943 and May 1944, with further substantial declines later (36 Strategic Bombing Survey, Japanese Transportation, p. 51.)
Like I said, we could of bypassed the Philippines. The entire campaign was for MacArthur, we could of ended the war a few months earlier without it. Heck, we could of had a shooting spree with aircraft and naval assets upon any kind of cargo ship to and from the Philippines once islands closer to Japan were taken.
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Entertaining movie, I came in without high expectations, but I thought it was beautifully done. All the special effects and eye candy make it worth the big screen or future blue ray release - in the end it's what should draw most viewers in and someday would be nice to see in 3D maybe, but it's probabley not going to go there. They chose a good cast, each had some really great moment of acting, but I'm not a fan of hollydrama (which when you're filming an actor jammed into a simulated cockpit infront of a camera is bound to happen) so I might just be turned off to what were otherwise better scenes.
I don't really want to spoil any of it, I'll try my sincerest best, but otherwise its best to ignore any opinions until you see it yourself. I sincerely don't think most of us can find anything better to complain about than spending a couple hours and a few bucks to sit in a theater and looking at wonderfuly CGIed WWII aircraft.
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I defend the love story they put into it, they didn't "Pearl Harbor" it, but the end will definitely leave most feeling "corned".
They hollywooded/condensed the stages of the war campaign and these mens role and presence throughout it through and through, and for shoehorning a story expanding almost the entire timespan of the ETO, even for one unit, I thought it was well done. The history buffs will feel robbed to some degree , like I honestly do (is there ever "enough"? But seriously, with a lack of further information, you'd think the Tuskegee Airmen consisted of only 6-8 pilots and participated in only a handful of operations and two bomber escort missions throughout the majority of their time in Italy and the ETO), but I was expecting this (the best we can hope for is a 12+ hour HBO documentary, but you get all you can possibly get in less than 150-minutes).
Still the CGI and graphics were excelent, and a couple of the maneuvers were sometimes shown in a nice pretty, tight framed shots turning faster and tighter than possible, I'd rate it not AH, but not UFO.
The story itself... well, my friend who went with me put it best - if they were going for a classic WWII aviation movie/story, they missed the part where you need a single or greater-ultimate villain to climatically triumph over, and for hollywood... it was surprisingly anticlimatic. Yes there was "the german ace/flight leader", but they never referred to him or established him in relation to these pilots as any specific threat to them until it was no longer relevant - he was just one of the bad guys, maybe a little better than the rest, throughout. And the edited trailers/teasers for the film vilified the bigamous pentagon general/generals better than the movie too.
Probably the greatest and only real killjoy - and I'm sure Lucas will shortly be getting a long, detailed, and in-depth letter from gramps (Bustr) and others in our community about it - is someone mixed up the ballistics and lethality of the Mk108 30mm with the Browning .30cal... really bad. And that's just a shame, would of really underlined the lethality and fear instilled upon the 262 in allied buff crews, and upped the climatic victory factor if the viewer thought each 262 that the Tuskegee were portrayed shooting down was actually as capable and a lethal weapon against the buffs as they were.
It's late here, g'night, hope others add their thoughts on the movie as they go and gather them.
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Got awful reviews :bhead
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I posted this in the 80th squad forums...
I just got back from seeing the movie and it was exactly what I expected. 'Don't let facts get in the way of a good story', but it just might sucker some kids into getting interested in the period. If I had a son between the ages of 5-9, it would of been a perfect 'father/son' outing.
As Hollywood as it was, I hope it does well or future films (accurate or not) about the period have a slim chance of being made.
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I highly suspect it will be full of false bravado, chest thumping, and Cuba Gooding making large ostentatious face grimaces.
Went to the premier this afternoon....
False bravado = CHECK
Chest thumping = CHECK
Cuba Gooding making large ostentatious face grimaces = CHECK :lol
Good flick! :aok
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Got awful reviews :bhead
Well, I wouldn't say it was fantastic, but it delivered greater than what I expected. I wonder what the movie critics specificly were hoping for or thought that it was lacking? And I mostly mean comparatively, they are from inside the industry, and we're the rare-breed WWII-aviation nuts.
I posted this in the 80th squad forums...
Agreed, I for one feel there is more riding on this film than just itself. And Hollywood could of easily done a lot worse , but I think we might actually have Lucas to thank for that one, there could of been a lot more fingers reaching into it.
I'm wondering today how much I want to see it again... In comparison, at this time into Pearl Harbor's most recent release, you couldn't pay me to see it again before it got released on DvD... I wouldn't go outa the way by myself (probabley rather play AH), but if a friend asked me I wouldn't think twice.
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Just got back from seeing it.
Had a blast. :rock
You have to really not like movies to not enjoy this film. The dialoge was hit or miss, but mostly good. Most pro reviewers seem to lack the understanding that the corn, cheese, and campiness was intentional. Either that or they dont care. It really did have the feel of an old timey war film. I half expected to see John Wayne show up in "cinematic blackface" and rally the pilots. "Saddle up your horses, pilgrims. We're goin' north of the border. That's right, we're takin' the fight to the Krauts."
The combat scenes were well done. Some aspects were a bit hokey, but I've seen worse in more realistic films. Even the "flat plate" manouver shown in the trailer was set up well, both in terms of shot scripting and story scripting. The pilot was inspited by seeing the German ace pull a similar move in a 109: the Tailslide. :devil
Dont go in expecting "Band of Brothers" but instead a film like "The Dirty Dozen"
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Just found out that it wont be playing at my Cinemark Theater, they have done this to other movies.
Disappointed, but I plan on going to Pittsburgh tomorrow. Will see it there.
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So, can I take my seven year old Son to the movie?
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Just saw the movie. Very entertaining. It is nicely done and more than met my expectations. My buddy Sweet16 and I sat next to a guy who mentioned "High Tech Creations". Huh? Then I introduced myself to PD37. Small world.
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Just got home from the theater.. IN my opinion the 1st movie is better, i would recommend u guys to not waste your money
CobraJet
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Went and saw it with my roommate, who didn't think she was going to like it. Instead she was on the edge of her seat. The whole theater was applauding when "Pretty Boy" went down and after the credits began to roll. While it won't win any awards for writing, it was definitely a crowd-pleaser.
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I'd be interested in hearing your complaints or kudos regarding the ACM depicted in Red Tails.
My points:
1. The trick flying: Watching the German pilot during that sequence I was like "Yup...yup...yup...". While it was more extreme than your usual flying, I definitely recall getting reversed by K4's and on occasion reversing while flying a K4 using similar tactics. Maybe not a flip stall, but definitely pulling sharply enough to evade and end up on the other guy's six. Also, I can't tell if the German was flying a K4 or not. He had the nose cannon, but I couldn't tell if it was a 20 or a 30. :)
Of course, doing the same thing with a Mustang is a different question. I'm several months from flying in AH, but it seems to me that yes, you could flip a pony like that, but not at high speed, and really, why would you want to when someone might nail you at the top of the stall?
2. I think it was somewhat of a disservice to other escort squadrons to depict them as getting suckered by decoys. The implication was that this was a consistent problem, but by that time had they not developed better escort doctrine?
3. I can forgive the images of the fighters flying so close to the heavies, since the public perception of what close escort means is very different than in reality. Also, there weren't many shots of the fighters chasing each other through the bomber boxes. Mostly it looked like they were fighting around the bomber formations rather than going right through them.
4. Late Model P-40's against 109's? Discuss?
5. Of the jet kills shown in the film, one was a deflection shot, one was a HO, one was a tail end shot at extreme range, and I can't remember the last one. I'm willing to buy that despite what my personal experience in the main arenas tells me. Then again, they all sound pretty much like how you do get kills on jets, other than catching them landing or taking off. BTW, does anyone know how the Red Tails really got their 262 kills on that mission? Did they get them defending the bombers or did they stake out an airfield and get the jets on takeoff and landing?
Interested in hearing everyone's thoughts.
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It's late, I can't read :( .
I just didn't like how shallow some parts were. "Oh, it's a colored guy flying a p51, they won't be much help." "Oh wow, they didn't take the bait, I sure hope they fly with us forever." With the actual time span of that dialogue not much more stretched out than the time it takes to read off this page.
Not sure why they fell in love with that trick move for the movie, but meh. Not sure you could tumble it like that exactly.
Did love the Italian girl!
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I dont exactly recall how the 262's were downed. I'm working off memory from a couple of years back but I thought it was four confirmed air to air kills with two damaged and an additional probable. I also recall the old dogfights series and I know they did one on the Tuskegee airmen. The 262 encounter was covered on that episode.
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shockingly enough there are these things called 'books' that one could read to get around the actual truth to the events.
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shockingly enough there are these things called 'books' that one could read to get around the actual truth to the events.
Shockingly enough not everyone has these books in their personal or local library.
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So, can I take my seven year old Son to the movie?
I took my eight year old and I didn't have any reservations. In fact he loved it! He has spent all of his earned computer time since, looking up the planes he saw and flying offline in Ah. :aok
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I'd say my biggest complaint was that the ACM was clearly made to look cool to someone whos never seen a military aircraft, yet alone an actual dogfight, first and foremost, with realism being secondary. P-51 pulling that fast of a reveral at the top of his zoom? I think not!
Second, some parts of the film were kind of just "oh look a black man, hes gonna be stupid....... oh wow, hes new but he flys like a veteran..... OK, I instantly think black men are equal now".
Third, really kind of cheesy at some parts.
It was made for the people that don't know jack crap about WWII fighters and ACM, on screen it was what that description would suggest, but I was expecting worse and so came away mildly pleased.
Oh, and btw, whats that....... thing... in your avatar?
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Red Tails is a movie meant to entertain. Aces High is a game meant to entertain. The aerial combat experiance on this BBS is all in cartoon aircraft.
Everybody on this board is as full of it as George Lucas. :aok
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Shockingly enough not everyone has these books in their personal or local library.
:O
That is very true though. And some of those books can be pricey. I looked at the Redstar Black cross series. 400 dollars for the first book.
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I'd say my biggest complaint was that the ACM was clearly made to look cool to someone whos never seen a military aircraft, yet alone an actual dogfight, first and foremost, with realism being secondary. P-51 pulling that fast of a reveral at the top of his zoom? I think not!
Second, some parts of the film were kind of just "oh look a black man, hes gonna be stupid....... oh wow, hes new but he flys like a veteran..... OK, I instantly think black men are equal now".
Third, really kind of cheesy at some parts.
It was made for the people that don't know jack crap about WWII fighters and ACM, on screen it was what that description would suggest, but I was expecting worse and so came away mildly pleased.
Oh, and btw, whats that....... thing... in your avatar?
Yes, flying a video game makes you an expert in the field of ACM.... please... unless you actually flew the damn planes you really do not know jack-crap... I can make my Cessna 172 do things it was never designed to do...
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Shockingly enough not everyone has these books in their personal or local library.
and yet everyone in this discussion has access to Amazon.com and various other sources for obtaining literature.
As to the pricey aspect? That is a valid point. I rely on Half Price Books. Picked up four interesting ones for under $20 just last weekend. I believe I saw one on the Tuskegee Airmen for under $5 but that's not exactly my focus at the moment.
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BTW, does anyone know how the Red Tails really got their 262 kills on that mission? Did they get them defending the bombers or did they stake out an airfield and get the jets on takeoff and landing?
I think this has the answers some place on the clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FACecpfY_HA&feature=related
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Shockingly I see that many here forget there is a source of books, particularly historical ones written by the folks who really did the deeds, that can be found in libraries at no cost.
Forget the ACM you see / hear / do in this GAME. It is not the same as the real world combat and folks who make great game players are not real experts.
Hollywierd rarely gets much of anything historical correct in an entertainment product. Watch it like you did avatar. Enjoy the effects but keep in mind it was made by folks who probably never handled the yoke of a Cessna 152 much less a fighter. Was the film entertaining enough to justify the bucks you spent in going to it? If so then great, but don't go in thinking it contains much reality on the screen.
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Shockingly I see that many here forget there is a source of books, particularly historical ones written by the folks who really did the deeds, that can be found in libraries at no cost.
Forget the ACM you see / hear / do in this GAME. It is not the same as the real world combat and folks who make great game players are not real experts.
Hollywierd rarely gets much of anything historical correct in an entertainment product. Watch it like you did avatar. Enjoy the effects but keep in mind it was made by folks who probably never handled the yoke of a Cessna 152 much less a fighter. Was the film entertaining enough to justify the bucks you spent in going to it? If so then great, but don't go in thinking it contains much reality on the screen.
You might be surprised on the state of some public libraries.
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Shockingly I see that many here forget there is a source of books, particularly historical ones written by the folks who really did the deeds, that can be found in libraries at no cost.
Forget the ACM you see / hear / do in this GAME. It is not the same as the real world combat and folks who make great game players are not real experts.
Hollywierd rarely gets much of anything historical correct in an entertainment product. Watch it like you did avatar. Enjoy the effects but keep in mind it was made by folks who probably never handled the yoke of a Cessna 152 much less a fighter. Was the film entertaining enough to justify the bucks you spent in going to it? If so then great, but don't go in thinking it contains much reality on the screen.
QFT!
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Journalist (and movie reviewers) need to research their facts before publishing their ignorance on aviation related topics.
Right away, the film plays fast and loose with period by enabling their buddies back at the base to watch footage of the explosive strike, as if every plane were equipped with a camera that could provide nightly ESPN-style highlights. Talk about kowtowing to a younger generation that supposedly requires instantaneous and repeated gratification.
http://entertainment.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/19/10189804-red-tails-flies-but-never-soars (http://entertainment.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/19/10189804-red-tails-flies-but-never-soars)
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Talking I talian girl was the most believable part of the movie. The acting was well..........
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does anyone know when/if it is going to be released outside of the US?
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If you play a game like this you will probably not only like the movie but will also buy the Blue Ray. Lucas has a long history of ruining good actors with trite dialog but as long as you can see these airplanes flying....who cares? I Thought it a good movie.
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saw it last night, it was entertaining, albeit kind of hokey at times. good as far as movies go. i felt they could have done much more. would have been cool to know more about the German ace, i noticed he was wearing oak leaves.
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I really enjoyed it. kudos to George Lucas for putting up the 58 million out of his pocket to make it. :salute My son pointed out in the opening scene they got the M3 and then they took down the flak train .
Later on the German dragged them over the base ack :x where they took down the manned ack and vulched the field and porked the field. :neener:
At the theater where we watched it the audience clapped at the end.
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Same at mine. It's been a while since I've been to a movie where the audience applauded when the credits rolled.
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Oh, and somebody wanna try to loop a Mustang like that and post the film? :) I say it can be done!
I bet 100 bucks kappa can do that move . I got to see this movie .
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I bet 100 bucks kappa can do that move . I got to see this movie .
Search the thread, it's already been done in the game and was also pulled off IRL as well.
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Forget the ACM you see / hear / do in this GAME. It is not the same as the real world combat and folks who make great game players are not real experts.
Oh, really? And your expertise on the subject comes from where?
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Oh, really? And your expertise on the subject comes from where?
Please, this is a game, not even a sim of the same kind of controls you see in a real plane. Maybe 5 tops including stick, rudder, throttle, and oh views if you use track ir and a keyboard to adjust rpm and maybe, MAYBE trims. You think you could take a real plane and do the same stuff you can in this game? HAHAHA wow. Really think about it gamer. This game doesn't make you a pilot by any stretch of the imagination. It's a game man, come on back down to earth now. :O
If you hung it up for someone to take you in a WAR you are finished for good. In here you up a new plane. Think about it you don't need expertise to see that one. lol
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and yet everyone in this discussion has access to Amazon.com
Everyone has access to amazon.com, yes. You fail to realize that not everyone on this board is as financially 'set' as you may be.
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:headscratch:
Please, this is a game, not even a sim of the same kind of controls you see in a real plane. Maybe 5 tops including stick, rudder, throttle, and oh views if you use track ir and a keyboard to adjust rpm and maybe, MAYBE trims. You think you could take a real plane and do the same stuff you can in this game? HAHAHA wow. Really think about it gamer. This game doesn't make you a pilot by any stretch of the imagination. It's a game man, come on back down to earth now. :O
If you hung it up for someone to take you in a WAR you are finished for good. In here you up a new plane. Think about it you don't need expertise to see that one. lol
Oh, .....ahhh........O.K. :eek:
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The acting was well..........
Did Cuba yell: "SHOW ME THE NAZIS!" during climb out?
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Please, this is a game, not even a sim of the same kind of controls you see in a real plane. Maybe 5 tops including stick, rudder, throttle, and oh views if you use track ir and a keyboard to adjust rpm and maybe, MAYBE trims. You think you could take a real plane and do the same stuff you can in this game? HAHAHA wow. Really think about it gamer. This game doesn't make you a pilot by any stretch of the imagination. It's a game man, come on back down to earth now. :O
If you hung it up for someone to take you in a WAR you are finished for good. In here you up a new plane. Think about it you don't need expertise to see that one. lol
thats actually not true at all.......up until I was 40 years old I have never been in an airplane, except in AH
on my 40th Bday I went and took up a aerobatic plane and flew it no problem at all as far as controlling it goes.....I taxied down the runway and took off myself....did barrel rolls....loops.........
I knew what all the gauges were....
the guy who took me up was very surprised I was never in a plane before....( hell I never even looked inside a cockpit before).the only problem I had was the fact that my body had never experienced real flight/Gforce before...so vertigo set in.
I have absolutely no doubt I could fly ANY small plane.
this is the plane I flew
I will say one of the most amazing days of my life :rock
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/stacey024.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/stacey051.jpg)
I will admit I was happy they gave me a parachute :D
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/stacey044.jpg)
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When his hands aren't busy, he keeps his wrist cocked at the same angle as his foot! :devil
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Please, this is a game, not even a sim of the same kind of controls you see in a real plane. Maybe 5 tops including stick, rudder, throttle, and oh views if you use track ir and a keyboard to adjust rpm and maybe, MAYBE trims. You think you could take a real plane and do the same stuff you can in this game? HAHAHA wow. Really think about it gamer. This game doesn't make you a pilot by any stretch of the imagination. It's a game man, come on back down to earth now. :O
If you hung it up for someone to take you in a WAR you are finished for good. In here you up a new plane. Think about it you don't need expertise to see that one. lol
Funny, I flew one of these with only my AH experience to guide me.
(http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/7/6/5/1870567.jpg)
What's even funnier is you saying this to Puma. :lol
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Puma is one of the most experienced aviators on this board
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Puma is one of the most experienced aviators on this board
And he would do things in a plane that he does in the game? Don't think so. Pull an immelman because the invisible enemy plane was going to get you on that little jaunt? No. maybe take it for a vert tailslide? Probably not. That was a movie and a war is also kind of different maybe.
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And he would do things in a plane that he does in the game? Don't think so. Pull an immelman because the invisible enemy plane was going to get you on that little jaunt? No. maybe take it for a vert tailslide? Probably not. That was a movie and a war is also kind of different maybe.
Are you a fighter pilot?
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And he would do things in a plane that he does in the game? Don't think so. Pull an immelman because the invisible enemy plane was going to get you on that little jaunt? No. maybe take it for a vert tailslide? Probably not. That was a movie and a war is also kind of different maybe.
I don't want to sound like an @$s hole, but you seem to have absolutely no idea what your talking about. Aces High simulates flight physics a lot better than most other computer programs with the word "simulator" in it's name, also AH simulated flight physics better then some of the level 6 and 7 simulators (that are FAA certified).
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And he would do things in a plane that he does in the game? Don't think so. Pull an immelman because the invisible enemy plane was going to get you on that little jaunt? No. maybe take it for a vert tailslide? Probably not. That was a movie and a war is also kind of different maybe.
You get your expertise from where? And make your judgements based on what?
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Finally seen the movie. I say it's pretty good. I wont take the points off for adding all the hollywood BS as they did want people who don't know anything about flying to enjoy it.
I do have one big comment for the movie; it is extremely predictable. Very predictable maneuvers, events, characters, ect...
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When his hands aren't busy, he keeps his wrist cocked at the same angle as his foot! :devil
:cry
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This thread is full of win!
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Besides the last 10-15 minutes... I thought the movie was boring.
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@ INK get a haircut you Hippie :cheers: jk
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I don't want to sound like an @$s hole, but you seem to have absolutely no idea what your talking about. Aces High simulates flight physics a lot better than most other computer programs with the word "simulator" in it's name, also AH simulated flight physics better then some of the level 6 and 7 simulators (that are FAA certified).
The only thing that simulators do, is give a familiarity to flight... but because you will always lack to physical characteristics of flight, you can never consider yourself an "expert" in any sense. So to mock a movie because the ACM are not correct is laughable at best... unless you actually flew the damn WWII planes, you need to keep your mouth shut.
As for the bold statement... I really doubt that... I would love to believe you, but please post a video with comparisons or statements from actual pilots... oh wait, I am a pilot... I will tell you that it is not true...
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Besides the last 10-15 minutes... I thought the movie was boring.
I agree, it was a rather slow movie. The mrs. and I went to see it last night. It was ok, nothing special.
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The only thing that simulators do, is give a familiarity to flight... but because you will always lack to physical characteristics of flight, you can never consider yourself an "expert" in any sense. So to mock a movie because the ACM are not correct is laughable at best... unless you actually flew the damn WWII planes, you need to keep your mouth shut.
As for the bold statement... I really doubt that... I would love to believe you, but please post a video with comparisons or statements from actual pilots... oh wait, I am a pilot... I will tell you that it is not true...
Okay...in that case could you explain us what is wrong with AH's physics characteristics?
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@ INK get a haircut you Hippie :cheers: jk
hippy.......last thing anyone would mistake me for :D
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Probably the greatest and only real killjoy - and I'm sure Lucas will shortly be getting a long, detailed, and in-depth letter from gramps (Bustr) and others in our community about it - is someone mixed up the ballistics and lethality of the Mk108 30mm with the Browning .30cal... really bad. And that's just a shame, would of really underlined the lethality and fear instilled upon the 262 in allied buff crews, and upped the climatic victory factor if the viewer thought each 262 that the Tuskegee were portrayed shooting down was actually as capable and a lethal weapon against the buffs as they were.
I liked the movie...give it a 7/10, it did the job and was entertaining...not a great movie but I would watch again. With that said, ^^^that part really bothered me....someone gets hit with 30mm and they're not gonna live to fly for 5 mins longer.
I think my major gripe with the movie, is that you never really felt like the pilots were in danger. Yeah some planes would come in shooting...and some parts would get ripped up...but the execution kind of downplayed this. "Oh Captain...I'm hit....damn I'm bleeding....oh there's fuel leaking too....I'm ok though" :bhead
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Please, this is a game, not even a sim of the same kind of controls you see in a real plane. Maybe 5 tops including stick, rudder, throttle, and oh views if you use track ir and a keyboard to adjust rpm and maybe, MAYBE trims. You think you could take a real plane and do the same stuff you can in this game? HAHAHA wow. Really think about it gamer. This game doesn't make you a pilot by any stretch of the imagination. It's a game man, come on back down to earth now. :O
If you hung it up for someone to take you in a WAR you are finished for good. In here you up a new plane. Think about it you don't need expertise to see that one. lol
Who are you?
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Finally seen the movie. I say it's pretty good. I wont take the points off for adding all the hollywood BS as they did want people who don't know anything about flying to enjoy it.
I do have one big comment for the movie; it is extremely predictable. Very predictable maneuvers, events, characters, ect...
Unfortunately...that is an inherent problem with movies based on historical events. Just like Titanic....extremely predictable...Tora Tora Tora! Extremely predictable...MIDWAY! Extremely predictable. Memphis Belle. Extremely predictable. etc. etc.
The only thing they can do with a movie of this type is flesh out some "character" in the characters. Give the viewer a "sense" of what it was like. When the facts are "known" the only thing left to carry it...are the characters involved.
I have not see the movie yet...but I am planning on going to see it.... I hope the character development is good because I already KNOW the story and the history.
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Unfortunately...that is an inherent problem with movies based on historical events. Just like Titanic....extremely predictable...Tora Tora Tora! Extremely predictable...MIDWAY! Extremely predictable. Memphis Belle. Extremely predictable. etc. etc.
The only thing they can do with a movie of this type is flesh out some "character" in the characters. Give the viewer a "sense" of what it was like. When the facts are "known" the only thing left to carry it...are the characters involved.
I have not see the movie yet...but I am planning on going to see it.... I hope the character development is good because I already KNOW the story and the history.
I'm not referring to the story line. While your watching the movie and see two airplane fight, your thinking "I bet this is going to do this maneuver right now" and he did, same thing with which character survives and doesn't survive.
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Are you a fighter pilot?
I think he is of the good graphics = good flight model brigade :D
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I'm the guy saying playing a game does not make you a fighter pilot. Really think about how you sound arguing against that. Good graphics don't make a good flight model by the way. We have a good flight model. No need to be a ---- edited to play nice :D
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I saw it and liked it. Only complaint was the 30mms looked like .22s.
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I'm not referring to the story line. While your watching the movie and see two airplane fight, your thinking "I bet this is going to do this maneuver right now" and he did, same thing with which character survives and doesn't survive.
Was he wearing a "Red Shirt" when he died. LOL.
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I saw it and liked it. Only complaint was the 30mms looked like .22s.
i thought 30's would be like using HEIT rounds on a bomber after seing some footage and pictures in the books I have.
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I'm the guy saying playing a game does not make you a fighter pilot.
I agree with you there. However we do have a couple of real fighter pilots that play this game.
Puma and Eagle are two of them.
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I'm the guy saying playing a game does not make you a fighter pilot. Really think about how you sound arguing against that. Good graphics don't make a good flight model by the way. We have a good flight model. No need to be a ---- edited to play nice :D
How so? you do complain about this on a pretty regular basis and for a long time. I remember reading once that you thought the P51 was modelled incorrectly because you saw a TV program and drew your own conclusions, why do you think HTC has got this wrong? What do you think HTC has got wrong that you constantly bleat on about his being a game rather than a sim?
You understand that if you keep on expressing these opinions without an explantion as to why people are going to have to ask you why you think that is the case and your going to have to back it up.
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I agree with you there. However we do have a couple of real fighter pilots that play this game.
Puma and Eagle are two of them.
Right on, but this game doesn't have all the controls even modeled for this to be a simulator. This game hasn't made anyone a fighter pilot. I'm pretty sure they didn't come here for training hahahaha. They also probably fly much faster planes than what was in that movie or in here hehehe.
Movie was great except Cuba looked like he was trying to pretend he was DeNiro in men of honor with the pipe :bolt:
No one said the flight model in here was too poor or the current physics were either. There are controls to prop planes like the f4u and others for cooling, engine management, and other things that we don't have modeled that strike it from being a complete sim. A sim to me would be the planes modeled exactly like the real thing was. Things like the gyro stabilized gunsights on the p 51's, but alot of people here say it would make the game unbalanced by putting that in. Hence, just a game in the end.
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Things like the gyro stabilized gunsights on the p 51's, but alot of people here say it would make the game unbalanced by putting that in. Hence, just a game in the end.
So define a simulator? Were do we stop here? is it something you play until you die for the first time then your never allowed to play again because your dead? Do you want the commands all mappable to a control panel? So you can flick a switch to feel more real?
I would class Aces High as a combat sim why do you think its a game?
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They also probably fly much faster planes than what was in that movie or in here hehehe.
I'm not so sure Puma looks like he wore brown boots and flew spads.
Covered for ya Puma. ;)
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Now you've done it, Shifty! :lol My secret about flying with knee length cavalry boots is out. :O. .... and just when I got 'em broke in real good. And don't you be talking bad about my Spad. :furious. :salute
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Are you a fighter pilot?
....and the answer is?
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Okay, well how would you say the ACM in Red Tails compares to "Pearl Harbor"? I seem to recall a few mild objections to the latter.
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Now you've done it, Shifty! :lol My secret about flying with knee length cavalry boots is out. :O
CHARGE!
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/F-106_Delta_Dart_5th_IS.JPEG/800px-F-106_Delta_Dart_5th_IS.JPEG)
:salute
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Were do we stop here? is it something you play until you die for the first time then your never allowed to play again because your dead?
I would class Aces High as a combat sim why do you think its a game?
I would say the game simulates combat, but I wouldn't say it simulates the planes as far as controls and what is in a plane. Take falcon 4.0 as an example. You could even turn the lights on in the plane. This game you can use a stick to fly and throttle and what controls it has. It simply is incomplete at the controls it could have. Is that a better way to put it for you maybe? We have a main arena full of 109 vs 190 and spit vs corsair. You saying that's sim? We could both go round and round about what is a sim and what isn't for a long time. I call this a game you call it a sim. We good or did I make you angry?
http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=84480 <---- simulator by the initial looks of it
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CHARGE!
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/F-106_Delta_Dart_5th_IS.JPEG/800px-F-106_Delta_Dart_5th_IS.JPEG)
:salute
Gotta love 106s. What a pretty bird.
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I would say the game simulates combat, but I wouldn't say it simulates the planes as far as controls and what is in a plane. Take falcon 4.0 as an example. You could even turn the lights on in the plane. This game you can use a stick to fly and throttle and what controls it has. It simply is incomplete at the controls it could have. Is that a better way to put it for you maybe? We have a main arena full of 109 vs 190 and spit vs corsair. You saying that's sim? We could both go round and round about what is a sim and what isn't for a long time. I call this a game you call it a sim. We good or did I make you angry?
http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=84480 <---- simulator by the initial looks of it
you are right AH is not a true "flight/combat" sim...I would say closer to a combat sim then flight sim......
I think its basically a perfect mix for a great game that simulates Aerial Combat.....that will certainly teach ya the ACM involved in Air combat :aok
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I would say the game simulates combat, but I wouldn't say it simulates the planes as far as controls and what is in a plane. Take falcon 4.0 as an example. You could even turn the lights on in the plane. This game you can use a stick to fly and throttle and what controls it has. It simply is incomplete at the controls it could have. Is that a better way to put it for you maybe? We have a main arena full of 109 vs 190 and spit vs corsair. You saying that's sim? We could both go round and round about what is a sim and what isn't for a long time. I call this a game you call it a sim. We good or did I make you angry?
http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=84480 <---- simulator by the initial looks of it
So how are people to operate all these controls considering Aces High with the very basic controls has a full keyboard? Would this add to your enjoyment or distract you from combat? You haven't made me angry its just your hopping around here belittling people that play a game that you play as well? Is there something special about you we should know? I find it a bit cringeworthy tbh
Please, this is a game, not even a sim of the same kind of controls you see in a real plane. Maybe 5 tops including stick, rudder, throttle, and oh views if you use track ir and a keyboard to adjust rpm and maybe, MAYBE trims. You think you could take a real plane and do the same stuff you can in this game? HAHAHA wow. Really think about it gamer. This game doesn't make you a pilot by any stretch of the imagination. It's a game man, come on back down to earth now. :O
If you hung it up for someone to take you in a WAR you are finished for good. In here you up a new plane. Think about it you don't need expertise to see that one. lol
Are you a real pilot or something? Do you fly planes? How do you know this?
History channel and military channel call it the best fighter of the war as far as turning ability and overall performance. Just finished watching the historians get down and dirty about all these little ratios on the history channel. Seems like our version of the p-51d is really castrated. Not a pilot but for a plane to have so much praise and so much performance and yet it turns like a brick and for not very long before the E gets sucked out of it.... hmmm don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that our version is made of the same stuff a nerf football is.Don't hurt your heads crunching numbers. The benchmarks of the guys making these models is really off or using different information it seems. Cheers anyway and hope the planes (not just the p51D) get fixed at least a bit. See you guys in the MA.
James
:huh :huh :huh Have you flown a p51?
And ps just so you know I would class that link you posted as a genre of a 'game' the same as Aces High different but still a game, reality is reality playing on a PC is a game no matter how many buttons you have to push. :rofl
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So how are people to operate all these controls considering Aces High with the very basic controls has a full keyboard? Would this add to your enjoyment or distract you from combat? You haven't made me angry its just your hopping around here belittling people that play a game that you play as well? Is there something special about you we should know? I find it a bit cringeworthy tbh
Are you a real pilot or something? Do you fly planes? How do you know this?
:huh :huh :huh Have you flown a p51?
And ps just so you know I would class that link you posted as a genre of a 'game' the same as Aces High different but still a game, reality is reality playing on a PC is a game no matter how many buttons you have to push. :rofl
Ok pal no I haven't flown a p51, just a piper warrior II. I don't think using all the controls would detract from the game, but I don't think it would hurt it either. In 2008 I hadn't realized how a p51 stacked up against other planes and yes I wrote that thinking things in here were wrong. I was still pretty new to this game. Your quoting skills are noteworthy. To you this is a sim and that's ok man. Yes playing on a computer is a game no matter what, we do agree there. That makes my point though that playing a game does not make you a fighter pilot nor does playing this game. Those guys train for months on stuff and use REAL simulators that move. Navigation, avionics, and so forth. I would say the p51 game in that link would be a sim because of the amount of detail to each system. That is a horrible gunsight in the one picture as well though.
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Darn lag
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Mongo pi-lut, Mongo like fly plane. Mongo like make planes go boom. Mongo virtually certifiable to fly any plane.
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Ok pal no I haven't flown a p51, just a piper warrior II. I don't think using all the controls would detract from the game, but I don't think it would hurt it either. In 2008 I hadn't realized how a p51 stacked up against other planes and yes I wrote that thinking things in here were wrong. I was still pretty new to this game. Your quoting skills are noteworthy. To you this is a sim and that's ok man. Yes playing on a computer is a game no matter what, we do agree there. That makes my point though that playing a game does not make you a fighter pilot nor does playing this game. Those guys train for months on stuff and use REAL simulators that move. Navigation, avionics, and so forth. I would say the p51 game in that link would be a sim because of the amount of detail to each system. That is a horrible gunsight in the one picture as well though.
If you guys want to get wrapped up in semantics about what's a sim and what's a game that's fine but the answer is really simple, it's both.
A simulator is intended to reproduce certain aspects of flight. But all simulators have limitations and none of them actually reproduce the total flight experience as much as they represent portions of it to some degree. Some simulators are simple PC based affairs designed just to teach fundamentals (pull the stick back, the earth gets small; push the stick forward, the earth gets big). Some even represent specific airplanes, cockpits and controls like MS Flight Sim but even when talking about the "real" multi-million-dollar simulators with motion bases and full cockpits they still don't really reproduce G-force for instance as much as "representing" it. There are many "real" simulators that are perfect reproductions of a specific airplane's cockpit and performance which are great for instrument and emergency training but are absolutely worthless for ACM. None of the simulators can reproduce the most important aspect of aviation which is you crash, you likely die.
As a basic flight sim to provide an introduction to the principles of flight AH is decent. Someone who "flew" this sim for a few hours would have a basic understanding that would help in actual flight training. Could you spend hours and hours on this sim and then go out and solo a real airplane? Once. On the other hand, it's actually better in some ways than the multi-million dollar simulators (i.e., "real" simulators) for ACM, even the ones intended to teach ACM. That's because you can do things over and over again for hours against other live "pilots." It uses an accurate physics model to reproduce aircraft performance capabilities and it's perfectly acceptable for teaching ACM fundamentals, tactics, principles of energy management and lookout in either a 1 on 1 or multi-bandit environment so yeah, it's a sim.
Is it a game? Sure it is. As Wikipedia defines it: "A game is structured playing, usually undertaken for enjoyment and sometimes used as an educational tool." This is basically a perfect definition of AH, structured play that we do for enjoyment with aspects of providing a form of education about WWII air combat. So, the answer is simple, it's both a game and a sim. What's wrong with that?
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So, the answer is simple, it's both a game and a sim. What's wrong with that?
Because if you resolve it so simply we can't drag on hijacking this topic for another dozen pages.
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Because if you resolve it so simply we can't drag on hijacking this topic for another dozen pages.
:rofl :aok
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CHARGE!
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/F-106_Delta_Dart_5th_IS.JPEG/800px-F-106_Delta_Dart_5th_IS.JPEG)Was'nt this jet nicknamed "Thud"?
:salute
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This is the F-106 Delta Dart....the F-105 was nicknamed the "Thud". :salute
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Believe there was a Delta Dart and a Delta Dagger. One was F-102 and the other the F-106. I *think*.
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How about that red tails movie?
:noid
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How about that red tails movie?
:noid
Nice hijack :rock
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Believe there was a Delta Dart and a Delta Dagger. One was F-102 and the other the F-106. I *think*.
The Dart had a pointy vertical stab, the 106 didn't.
F-102:
(http://www.warbirdphotos.net/aviapix/postww2/fighters/us-vietnamera/f102-deltadagger/MK-dagger.jpg)
F-106:
(http://www.avsim.com/pages/0708/AlphaSim2/11%20FSX%20F106%20Montana%20ANG.jpg)
Ironically, while TDY to Tyndall AFB in 1983, I saw QF-102s and F-106s sharing the same ramp. The drones were
there to be wasted by the 106s. The top picture is actually a QF-102, with a QF-100 in the background.
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Because if you resolve it so simply we can't drag on hijacking this topic for another dozen pages.
:rofl :aok
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Believe there was a Delta Dart and a Delta Dagger. One was F-102 and the other the F-106. I *think*.
F-102 was a bit smaller and had a pointy tail. Was also flared front and rear (area rule) so it could go supersonic.
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Not pleased about the movie, the effects were good, but acting poor.
Kam
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I saw it on Saturday. It was a good helping of cheese and corn. But very fun. I was in a movie theater in Homestead, (Pittsburgh) and there were moments whether I didn't know to laugh or act shocked. I do know that it was well received in the theater I was in. :rofl
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I saw it on Saturday. It was a good helping of cheese and corn. But very fun. I was in a movie theater in Homestead, (Pittsburgh) and there were moments whether I didn't know to laugh or act shocked. I do know that it was well received in the theater I was in. :rofl
Same here. It wasn't what a perfect WWII air combat movie would be in my opinion, but it was enjoyable to watch and everyone I watch it with seemed to agree :)
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Just got back from watching it - enjoyable movie. Coincidentally, sat next to the son of a guy who flew in the bomber streams - interesting conversation post film too.
Wurz
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I saw the movie on Saturday, the matinee. I thought the movie was okay. People clapped at the end. I went to the movie with a attitude of watching a ww2 movie somewhat based on fact and being entertainted. As said, some of lines and acting so-so.
I'll wait for the movie to come out on dvd and watch it again someday.
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Saw it last night, generally enjoyed it. Several scenes appeared to have been chopped and just left hanging (for time restraints I imagine) and the predictability of who lives and who dies was distracting.
The theater clapped at the end too.
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I might just wait for Netflix.
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One thing to consider is that the cheese and "poor" writing may have been intentional. Lucas intended the movie as a throwback to those actually made during or not long after the war (so we're looking at the war movies of the 40s and 50s). And I could definitely hear John Wayne speaking dialog like what was in the film.
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That you even thought john wayne when watching that movie..... :rolleyes:
It was nice to see a movie with P-40s, P-51s, 109s and 262s in it on the big screen. It was nice to see crowds turn out to watch a movie with those a/c in it. And even though I thought the movie barely bordered on entertaining it was nice to see people clap during the credits. Shows people still care.... and makes me believe that maybe we're not all crazy for being so consumed with ww2 a/c that we play this game so much :D
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Not pleased about the movie, the effects were good, but acting poor.
Kam
My only qualms - the story and acting wasn't as deep as something you would get out of say an HBO documentry. But still, I can't chastise it for what it did do in 2-hours, the movie was enjoyable.
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My only qualms - the story and acting wasn't as deep as something you would get out of say an HBO documentry. But still, I can't chastise it for what it did do in 2-hours, the movie was enjoyable.
Lucas is such a Godawful dialog writer. Frankly, and for someone who Loved them at the time, even the first 3 Star Wars movies are tough for me to get thru now cause of Lucas's dialog. The second three were even worse. The one possible exception in the six was "Empire strikes back" and I dont think he even wrote that.
But WW2 aircraft flying across the sky? Thats a winner in my book, even with the laughable lines by the German Pilots. Its also a feel good story about men overcoming adversity. I'll buy the Blue Ray just for the airplane shots.
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Agreed x100 about the script, but I think the characters were genuinely fun. The effects were great... half the time I had trouble telling the difference between a real and fake P-40 or P-51. It's too bad that the airfield scenes were almost all green-screened though.
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The vulch/strafing scene was a major :rolleyes: for me, considering how big that airfield was. I mentioned it to g/f during the scene and got a sharp elbow to the stomach :aok
I would love to see a Blacksheep re-make or any squadron along the line of Band of Brothers.
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If hollywood would just tell the stories from the airmen, as they themselves tell it without spin, and then put their special effects wizardy to work simulating the events, it would work.
It would be so much better than the stuff managed and shaped by industry execs that we call entertainment. Guess I'll have to retire and then get funding and then learn how to make movies and make my own one day.
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Agreed x100 about the script, but I think the characters were genuinely fun. The effects were great... half the time I had trouble telling the difference between a real and fake P-40 or P-51. It's too bad that the airfield scenes were almost all green-screened though.
*phone rings*
"Hello, this is Hollywood... uh huh... wait, what!? No, Marv, just what do you mean when you say you can't find us six-dozen WWII vintage P-40s or P-51s?! The demolitions guys are scheduled and have pulled the permits already!"
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You think you could take a real plane and do the same stuff you can in this game?
Been there, done that.
I could post the video of a pop up following a low pass (below tree tops) to line up a SAM site (ack suppression) over the Naval Weapons Training center in Florida I did a few years ago in the TF-51D 'Crazy Horse' .. duplicating all the speeds, angles, site pictures I had experienced in the years of Air Warrior-Aces High.
To this day Lee (CFI in type) doesn't believe I only had 17 hours dual in 'real' airplanes before strappin on Crazy Horse and doing a full set of power-on stall recoveries, accelerated stall recoveries, aerobatics, then low level fun buzzin the trees, airfield, searchin for tanks (real tanks, they use em as targets out there) ..simulating strafin runs and ending with me landing Crazy Horse back at Kissimee.
Aces High (and Air Warrior before it) teaches you one hell of a lot about approach management, thinking ahead of the plane, aircraft control, all of it.
If you ever decide to actually fly you may surprise yourself at how much you know just from flyin in this 'game' .. seriously.
Talk to Blesk sometime about his experience flyin air combat against an F-15 pilot with the laser tag planes (T-34 Mentor's I beleive)
He was told to 'take it easy' on the guy after the first round .. and the F-15 guy ..well
.. it was his day job to be sharp in ACM
..he got owned by Blesk.
Badly.
-GE aka Frank
(just sayin)
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I are the bestest spitty pilot on all virtualdom....
(http://www.stupidhumans.org/image/stupidhumans/1102/online-gaming-freak-disturbing-stupid-human-1296795909.jpg)
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I are the bestest spitty pilot on all virtualdom....
(http://www.stupidhumans.org/image/stupidhumans/1102/online-gaming-freak-disturbing-stupid-human-1296795909.jpg)
Total Recall 2: Mission to Ghey
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I are the bestest spitty pilot on all virtualdom....
(http://www.stupidhumans.org/image/stupidhumans/1102/online-gaming-freak-disturbing-stupid-human-1296795909.jpg)
Thats just uncalled for...
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Thats just uncalled for...
Just when you think you trust someone, my wife posts THAT pic to the web........
Bob
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I are the bestest spitty pilot on all virtualdom....
(http://www.stupidhumans.org/image/stupidhumans/1102/online-gaming-freak-disturbing-stupid-human-1296795909.jpg)
Thats ok, not like I ever needed to sleep again in my life
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Been there, done that.
I could post the video of a pop up following a low pass (below tree tops) to line up a SAM site (ack suppression) over the Naval Weapons Training center in Florida I did a few years ago in the TF-51D 'Crazy Horse' .. duplicating all the speeds, angles, site pictures I had experienced in the years of Air Warrior-Aces High.
To this day Lee (CFI in type) doesn't believe I only had 17 hours dual in 'real' airplanes before strappin on Crazy Horse and doing a full set of power-on stall recoveries, accelerated stall recoveries, aerobatics, then low level fun buzzin the trees, airfield, searchin for tanks (real tanks, they use em as targets out there) ..simulating strafin runs and ending with me landing Crazy Horse back at Kissimee.
Aces High (and Air Warrior before it) teaches you one hell of a lot about approach management, thinking ahead of the plane, aircraft control, all of it.
If you ever decide to actually fly you may surprise yourself at how much you know just from flyin in this 'game' .. seriously.
Talk to Blesk sometime about his experience flyin air combat against an F-15 pilot with the laser tag planes (T-34 Mentor's I beleive)
He was told to 'take it easy' on the guy after the first round .. and the F-15 guy ..well
.. it was his day job to be sharp in ACM
..he got owned by Blesk.
Badly.
-GE aka Frank
(just sayin)
see the bold.. had a family friend who is a CFI and got CFI of the Year award a couple times take me up for an introductory flight. he was genuinely surprised at how natural it felt to me. I wasn't paying attention to the controls though on that section of briefing.... one look at the cockpit and I knew what each dial was in his 1970-something Cessna..... when asked if I wanted to expierence a stall I almost said yes, but figured I wouldnt risk wanting to try and recover one my first time flying after he showed me.....
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Sounds like the first time I experienced a real stall in the back seat of a T-6. The pilot was practicing aerobatics (and just racking up some time) and asked "I want to try some stalls, you OK with that?" my imediate reaction was an audible "sure!" followed by my brain actually thinking about it (and worry a little) and about what I just agreed to go along with for my first time.... :uhoh ...they were an absolute blast to actually experience though. :aok
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I are the bestest spitty pilot on all virtualdom....
(http://www.stupidhumans.org/image/stupidhumans/1102/online-gaming-freak-disturbing-stupid-human-1296795909.jpg)
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/001/248/cannot_be_unseen.jpg)
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roflmfao :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :aok
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My caption should of read, "Don't worry my fellow passengers I can land this plane. I'm from the internets!!!"
or
"No, I don't have any real world pilot in command time but I've got thirteen THOUSAND hours "sim" time. I'm just waiting for the Air Force to call in a time of crisis!!"
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MasonZ:
Recovering in a C-172 is almost a non-event :)
Stop pulliing back ..the nose drops and she flies again. Have to use a touch of rudder to keep her straight is all.
My first stall ever was in a 172.
I had been 'flying' the USAF F-4 sim for years, whenever I got the chance when I was off duty and one was nearby.
Now .. an F-4 ..you point nose down, pull power back, and wait till airspeed is 180ias before attempting to ease the nose back up .. gently!
So.. my instructor walks me into my first stall in Four-Zero-Romeo (the plane I solo'd in no less) .. power on.
He tells me to keep pullin back .. pull back ..pull back ..watch your heading, use rudder to keep the nose on your target ..
..the nose goes up . and up ..and up some more, I can feel her slowing down, a bit of shake ..more and more rudder input as P-effect is amplified at high AoA and slow speeds..
..and she breaks.
Ever been on a roller coaster? When they fall off the top and ZOOM down ..ya .. feels like that.
I mean I was keyed up .. *ready* .. I was on TOP o' that baby.
I quick-like-a-bunny pointed the nose STRAIGHT down, ..umm .. elbow hit the door window release and the window popped open.
\All of a sudden it was WINDY, LOUD, and we were going STRAIGHT DOWN!!!
(did I mention it was power on? ..our lil '68 Cessna had straight stacks right out the bottom of the cowling,
sounded cool idling down the taxi-way .. satisfyingly loud on takeoff roll ..hot rod sorta)
It was LOUD!
My brain took a holiday, running around like a frantic, panicked squirrel.
Reactions took over totally.
Pulled the power back, checked airspeed (already nearing 180ias, right on the edge of the yellow !!)
Yellow is for smooth air only, do not yank the airplane around here or the wings may come OFF!
Began a steady, gentle pull out.
Then ..closed the window.
Mike, my instructor .. asked in a fairly well controlled voice without breaking:
'Where did you learn to do THAT!!'
From that moment on he was convinced I was an F-4 pilot out to pull his chains for a laff.
He still does not believe that was my first hour in a real plane.
I had been flyin Air Warrior for most of a year by then.
I solo'd after 7 hours of dual.
We had a few other adventures along the way :)
-Frank aka GE.
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Great tale - I'm gonna have to remember that patented elbow-the-window-open-after-imediate-and-sudden-stall-departure, that's a good one to put an instructor through. :aok :rofl
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When I was flying sailplanes I took spin training just because my instructor suggested that I learn to recover from unusual attitudes.
My first hint was when he trotted out the parachutes. We had never worn parachutes for any of the other training. BTW, you wear those things cinched down so tight you can't stand up straight. You walk hunched over because every time you try to stand straight it pull the groin straps right up ;) You learn pretty quick that hunched over is ok.
On the way up we were doing the usual stuff behind the tow plane, boxing the wake and the like. He was telling me what to expect. "You pull back on the stick and let it coast up. Just at the point where the nose drops through in the stall, tromp hard on the rudder in the direction of your choice to start the spin. Let it wrap itself up for at least two turns before beginning recovery. Push forward on the stick, opposite rudder, until the spin stops. Then gently pull back on the stick and don't pull too hard or you'll put yourself in another spin."
Seemed simple. . .
We disco'd from the tow plane and built up some speed. He told me to start. I put the nose up and watched the speed fall off. This particular plane stalled at about 65mph or so. Right at 65 the nose fell through and he said, "ok kick the rudder". Now I don't know about you but I didn't really expect a sailplane with a 65 foot wing span to spin very fast. I don't know how fast it was but it was plenty too fast for me. The ground was spinning around like an Bugs Bunny cartoon of an airplane crash. I remember there was a little pick up truck following a two laner in the center of my vision, going around and around.
The other thing I noticed right off the bat was that every time before the view out the canopy had been some ratio of sky/ground, usually with the sky on the top and ground underneath. Now that we were pointed straight down, the horizon was even with the top of my head and all I could see was ground. I had to look up and back to see sky. Bit disconcerting. Ground seems to be coming up faster when you look at it.
The third thing is that the plane doesn't spin around the nose but around its CG which feels like the spin point is under your nose. Feels and looks wierd.
I'm starting to get a bit anxious cause it seems we've gone around at least 10 times, so he says, "Ok that's two. Let's recover." I went stick forward like a shot out of a gun and opposite rudder. When I started to pull back it seemed like we were going real fast, sailplanes are pretty low drag and pick up speed in a hurry. I fought the urge to pull the stick back behind my ear, and pulled it out gently.
He said, "That wasn't bad. How about another one. . . ."
We did two and about that point my stomach was making itself known. Discretion being the better part of valor, and honor being served I passed on #3.
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Movies are entertainment, theater and drama. They may tell an important story, social commentary or reflect on moral values, but they are still theater, made to thrill and entertain.
Documentaries are made to retell history in accurate detail.
"Red Tails" is the former, and I for one am looking forward to it.
I saw it last night and just wanted to say I was wrong in this case. Very wrong.
Wooden acting, appalling clichéd script, overt and embarrassing patriotism, an over reliance on CGI and a clumsy soundtrack. However remarkable the achievements of the real Tuskegee Airmen, "Red Tails" is an unworthy telling of their story that will satisfy only the most unsophisticated viewers.
The script is heavy-handed, contrived, and banal. The dialogue is horribly stereotypical, predictable and lifeless. Much of the acting is painful to watch. The directing is muddled and unclear, stringing together in the crudest manner a series of contrived and often-disposable vignettes obviously designed to push a message or elicit an emotional response rather than to develop the story. I think the script may have been written in crayon.
This is a very unfortunate attempt to tell an important story and is a disservice to the men who lived these historic events.
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The script is heavy-handed, contrived, and banal. The dialogue is horribly stereotypical, predictable and lifeless. Much of the acting is painful to watch. The directing is muddled and unclear, stringing together in the crudest manner a series of contrived and often-disposable vignettes obviously designed to push a message or elicit an emotional response rather than to develop the story. I think the script may have been written in crayon.
Sounds like a George Lucas film...
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I saw it last night and just wanted to say I was wrong in this case. Very wrong.
Wooden acting, appalling clichéd script, overt and embarrassing patriotism, an over reliance on CGI and a clumsy soundtrack. However remarkable the achievements of the real Tuskegee Airmen, "Red Tails" is an unworthy telling of their story that will satisfy only the most unsophisticated viewers.
The script is heavy-handed, contrived, and banal. The dialogue is horribly stereotypical, predictable and lifeless. Much of the acting is painful to watch. The directing is muddled and unclear, stringing together in the crudest manner a series of contrived and often-disposable vignettes obviously designed to push a message or elicit an emotional response rather than to develop the story. I think the script may have been written in crayon.
This is a very unfortunate attempt to tell an important story and is a disservice to the men who lived these historic events.
Amen. Finally saw it last night and it was just awful.
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Saw it 2 nights ago too, was terrible. Acting wasn't great, historical accuracy was terrible, and in my opinion they focused to much on the graphics of the movie.
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Saw it 2 nights ago too, was terrible. Acting wasn't great, historical accuracy was terrible, and in my opinion they focused to much on the graphics of the movie.
That seems to be the focus of EVERYTHING lately. Games, movies, TV, hell, even books.
I'm just waiting for the day when some idiot starts seriously complaining that life has worse graphics than CoD.
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That seems to be the focus of EVERYTHING lately. Games, movies, TV, hell, even books.
I'm just waiting for the day when some idiot starts seriously complaining that life has worse graphics than CoD.
I used to play real life, the gameplay was okay and the graphics were meh.
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Saw it about a week ago. I couldn't even watch the whole thing. What a terrible piece of crap.
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If you think Red Tails is the worst, what about Pearl Harbor made that movie any better?
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I was happy that I waited for it to come out on pay per view it was easier to turn off a 5 dollar piece of crap than to have spent a buttload at the movie theater.
I enjoyed the p51-C painted in the squad colors at the "Thunder over Michigan" airshow a hell of alot more than "Redtails" the movie
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Its Cheesy, The Anglo American Acting (Bomber Crews) is crap (The African American acting IMO was excellent), NO authentic planes, Historical inaccuracies by the tonne.........
I liked it.
I know that sounds impossible, but the cheesiness of a movie, as long as its not too bad, can be part of the charm. The story was predictable... but on the otherhand anyone with a brain knows that, showing a pic of the GF\Wife is instant death. So why disappoint.
I had fun watching it. As a work of film.... its more turd than the amount shovelled in an Outback sheep station..... as a time killer with funny black guys and aviation action.... it is a complete triumph.
P.S
Pearl Harbor is THE definition, of crappy war movie. Red Tails at least doesn't bog you down too much with crappy love triangles. Its about blasting Nazi's to hell. Something I personally approve of.
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If you wanted it to be a documentary, you lost. If you wanted it to be "Flying Tigers' updated to be "Redtails" it was just fine. In many ways it was exactly what Lucas said it was. It was an homage to the 1940s wartime films that also weren't history.
Watch John Wayne in "Flying Tigers". Then watch this one. Script about the same. Useless love story, a buddy story with one fighting inner demons while the other fights authority. The bad Luftwaffe guy was just like the evil Japanese pilots in WW2 movies.
I watched it on Pay for View with my little guy. All he saw were Mustangs and pilots with flying helmets like the one he plays with. Needless to say he spent his time hand flying and pointing at the pilots and then at himself. (He's deaf so saying it's a bit tough other then sign)
Is it great acting? Nah. I felt sorry for the actors being given such wooden, predictable lines. But it was also watchable for a kid for the most part. Very little blood and gore. Again, think about what Lucas was aiming at. Do we really believe a Mustang and a 262 in a head on shooting match is going to leave anyone intact? The guy kept fighting and talking despite cannon shells to his chest and shoulders. Had Lucas been doing it "Saving Private Ryan" style, he'd have been vaporized. Instead it was pure 1940s wartime movie, as the guy gets to say his good byes and voice his regrets while his buddy has to rise above and overcome his demons.
I enjoyed it. I'll teach the history to the little guy as that's my job, not a Hollywood movies. He loved the Mustangs and the pilots. That's what mattered.
What the little guy saw. They did a good job on the flight gear. The photo of my little guy was taken before we saw the movie. Needless to say he saw himself.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/DGS%20Scenario%20bits/Redtails.jpg)
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I am sure they made a TV moive of this and it was very good.
To be honest alot of American flims produced are poor in quality, this remaking of old films is cheap and nasty. (dont get all moody about this comment) its not a personal slight against you all.
HBO seems to be the only producer of good programs.
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I am sure they made a TV moive of this and it was very good.
To be honest alot of American flims produced are poor in quality, this remaking of old films is cheap and nasty. (dont get all moody about this comment) its not a personal slight against you all.
HBO seems to be the only producer of good programs.
We generally reserve the words "cheap and nasty" for other things besides movies. I watched this one to look at WW-ll airplanes, nothing more. Just like I own DVDs of movies like BOB, Memphis Belle, Tora-Tora-Tora....ect.
On another note. American made movies sell like hotcakes in foreign venues as much as are own. So I guess somebodys watching them overseas.
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ok criticism is not allowed in the US :)
Name one decent movie of 2012 :)
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Certainly not the best war movie I've seen but I did enjoy it. I'd watch it again.
Zack is right though. Hollywierd hasn't put out an exceptional film in over a decade IMO....if not longer. I think they'd rather throw together some crap in a couple months to make a quick buck rather then take the time to develop a outstanding story line.
Loved the part where the P40s followed the 109 back to his base. Pretty boy was pissed :lol
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funny that this thread would pop up now, i just finnished watching redtails..........all i gotta say is;
THERES A COUPLE OF HOURS OF MY LIFE I WILL NEVER GET BACK!!!!!!!!!
one more lame movie in a lengthening list of lets re-write WWII to make it more politically correct films.
once i knew lucas was involved that it was gunna be trash.....i intended to never watch it, but boredom won out on this tragic day!!!!
why dont we have a "poke my own eyes out with an ice pick" smiley-con?!?!?!?!?!?!
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I watched "Sink The Bismark" yesterday Fantastic.
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I watched "Sink The Bismark" yesterday Fantastic.
you mean the old movie? or did they make a new one that i havent heard about yet?
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funny that this thread would pop up now, i just finnished watching redtails..........all i gotta say is;
THERES A COUPLE OF HOURS OF MY LIFE I WILL NEVER GET BACK!!!!!!!!!
one more lame movie in a lengthening list of lets re-write WWII to make it more politically correct films.
once i knew lucas was involved that it was gunna be trash.....i intended to never watch it, but boredom won out on this tragic day!!!!
why dont we have a "poke my own eyes out with an ice pick" smiley-con?!?!?!?!?!?!
I see you were a victim of wanting a docudrama :)
Note that no a single historical name was used for any character. No mention of even Benjamin Davis. Think Ww2 made for the home front kiddies movie. It's the only way to watch it. It was a perfect reflection of "Flying Tiger", "flying Leathernecks", "Air Force" or any number of those wartime films.
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I see you were a victim of wanting a docudrama :)
Note that no a single historical name was used for any character. No mention of even Benjamin Davis. Think Ww2 made for the home front kiddies movie. It's the only way to watch it. It was a perfect reflection of "Flying Tiger", "flying Leathernecks", "Air Force" or any number of those wartime films.
i just wanted a good war movie with modern special effects that at least kinda tried to stick to some sembalance of factual events..........
this lets make up puffy mushy distorted and completely inaccurate history telling is really getting lame! we have so much more information today and the ability to tell a great story effects wise compared to what they had 40-50 years ago that they should be able to make the damn movie keep it factual, it just P'es me off when they dont even bother to try.
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you mean the old movie? or did they make a new one that i havent heard about yet?
The old one, in the new film it does not sink:)
And the Germans win the war :)
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i just wanted a good war movie with modern special effects that at least kinda tried to stick to some sembalance of factual events..........
this lets make up puffy mushy distorted and completely inaccurate history telling is really getting lame! we have so much more information today and the ability to tell a great story effects wise compared to what they had 40-50 years ago that they should be able to make the damn movie keep it factual, it just P'es me off when they dont even bother to try.
You'll never get one like that :)
Can you name me a single war movie that got it historically accurate in 2 hours or less? And this one the director never claimed he was telling the real story.
I chewed it up for all it's inaccuracies early on too. Then I remembered who it was aimed at, and it wasn't me so much as my little guy. That let me enjoy the airplanes and pilots from his perspective as he really enjoyed it for those reasons
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(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/242/3163963522_6ea873be40.jpg)
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Can you name me a single war movie that got it historically accurate in 2 hours or less?
I like the way '12 O'clock High' was done (132 minutes long, over your 2 hour duration limit); a lot of history, even if they condensed a bunch of stories into one single unit. Personally, if you're going to sacrifice reality for story telling, don't invent a new story altogether.
That said, I'm still going to enjoy the movie with my son when he gets old enough to enjoy it.
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Then people grow up thinking that fake movies (that didn't really need to be remade in the first place) are history. This is a disservice to everyone. Why couldn't the movie have been made equally entertaining without throwing historical details to the wind?
I'd argue that the movie wasn't even well made or entertaining. I'd have to find a new word to define cliche. I seldom turn off a film without watching the whole thing, and I almost did for this one. I expected far more, and they seemed to steer the script, the acting and the visuals in all the wrong directions. If I was one of the historical figures being bastardized by this bit of silliness I'd probably be offended.
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unfortunately they do imply that it was factual by saying based on factual events and then at the ending of it stating certain facts found in the historical record. so they im[ly that they are being historically accurate.
i understand the facination of it all from your little guys point of view, but the unfortunate side is that he will learn the history from a false perspective and that is a sad out come for him.
didnt the real men of the redtails squardon earn the honors of having thier history told with truth and integrity? would a touch of reality have made the explosions any less than what they showed or made the story line boring? those men lived and died and in a valiant manner, if we allow the hollywooders to tell the story in a less than truthful manner, when it is very possible for them to do so, then isnt that insulting those real men and the truth of their story?
if it was a fake squad and a fake enviroment that was potrayed with fake events and it was a complete piece of historical fiction then that is one thing, (as most of the old war flicks) but this movie uses real events, people, places and squads to tell a complete fabrication.....it just bothers me thats all.
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ok criticism is not allowed in the US :)
Name one decent movie of 2012 :)
Prometheus for one. The Dictator for another, not that I go to theater very often. And I dont care about criticism but your mistaking it for personal taste. Clearly somebody overseas likes these movies. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/foreign-box-office-avengers-sherlock-holmes-dark-shadows-johnny-depp-dictator-327004
Myself? I like older movies, and have seen more foreign films then most. I'd say the amount of foreign bombs are about the same as Hollywood ones. I still watch a lot of B&W movies.
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Prometheus for one. The Dictator for another, not that I go to theater very often. And I dont care about criticism but your mistaking it for personal taste. Clearly somebody overseas likes these movies. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/foreign-box-office-avengers-sherlock-holmes-dark-shadows-johnny-depp-dictator-327004
Myself? I like older movies, and have seen more foreign films then most. I'd say the amount of foreign bombs are about the same as Hollywood ones. I still watch a lot of B&W movies.
Avengers was good..so was Sherlock Holmes and Dark Shadows :aok
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ok criticism is not allowed in the US :)
Name one decent movie of 2012 :)
Prometheus, Chronical, The Dictator, The Avengers, Sherlock Holmes.
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unfortunately they do imply that it was factual by saying based on factual events and then at the ending of it stating certain facts found in the historical record. so they im[ly that they are being historically accurate.
i understand the facination of it all from your little guys point of view, but the unfortunate side is that he will learn the history from a false perspective and that is a sad out come for him.
didnt the real men of the redtails squardon earn the honors of having thier history told with truth and integrity? would a touch of reality have made the explosions any less than what they showed or made the story line boring? those men lived and died and in a valiant manner, if we allow the hollywooders to tell the story in a less than truthful manner, when it is very possible for them to do so, then isnt that insulting those real men and the truth of their story?
if it was a fake squad and a fake enviroment that was potrayed with fake events and it was a complete piece of historical fiction then that is one thing, (as most of the old war flicks) but this movie uses real events, people, places and squads to tell a complete fabrication.....it just bothers me thats all.
For what it's worth, the "Red Tail Project" based near where I live had a big gathering for the premiere. Matthew and I support that particular P51C and what they do with their traveling education program as I have a long history with that bird, and obviously I'm dad to a little Red Tail pilot. There were also surviving Red Tail pilots involved.
I think the key thing to remember here is no one movie, book, TV show etc is going to tell the whole story. Any history buff worth their while always gets more sources. I would never let Matthew stop with the movie as his only source of the story. What would I expect a kid to get from the movie? That there was a group of black fighter pilots that were segregated from white pilots during WW2 that eventually proved their worth as bomber escorts. It's up to me to make sure he learns the rest of the story if he wants to.
As a little kid in the 60s I got my start on this WW2 aviation obsession due to one TV show. "12 O'Clock High". Now if I'd stopped learning after seeing that show, my knowledge would be that the 918th BG commanded by Colonel Gallagher and his top turret gunner "Sandy" won WW2 in the air. I'd also believe that every B17 ever made was painted OD/Gray and had a triangle A on the tail. Thankfully my parents, seeing the interest, made sure I knew where the history section was in the library and made sure I got there. I also found it at my grade school and devoured all I could find.
It's the reason I keep using "Flying Tigers" with John Wayne as my comparison. I used to watch all those movies as as kid. Again if I'd stopped with that, I'd have a very skewed view of history. Instead each opened the door to more questions, and my desire to learn was encouraged by my parents and teachers.
My oldest son was Matthew's age when Top Gun came out. He referred to it as "Top Gug" as he was so little. But it had big planes and pilots and it hooked him. His imagination went wild building cardboard cockpits and begging to get to try and put together model kits of mine that were far beyond his years. He'd sit and do his absolute best to make the parts fit. Was Top Gun history? Nope. About all that fit was that there is was a Fighter Weapons School at Miramar called Top Gun. Again it was up to me to feed the interest. It wasn't the movies job to do anything but entertain.
It's funny that I'm defending the movie as I really ripped it early on for all the same reasons you gents are. It just took me getting reminded of "12 O' Clock High" from my childhood, "Top Gun" from my oldest son's childhood and then thinking about my littlest guy's view to get me to relax and see it for what the movie is.
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I will probly still buy it when its out on Bluray:)
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It is out on Bluray, has been for a couple weeks.
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hurrah!
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If you think Red Tails is the worst, what about Pearl Harbor made that movie any better?
As bas as Pearl Harbor was, Redtails was worse.
Really, Redtails was garbage.
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Best film I have seen this year....
Hands down it has to be Prometheus. There is no competition until Batman.
Sherlock Holmes though I haven't seen yet but desperately need to. LOVE RDJ.
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I know it sounds like a kid movie but, I thought 'Snow White and the Huntsman' was a excellent movie. I give it a 9/10 I like how they added more of a dark story to the movie. I also saw Prometheus, It was a good movie.
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As bas as Pearl Harbor was, Redtails was worse.
Really, Redtails was garbage.
Nah, nothing tops Pearl Harbor for garbage.
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That Snow White was appalling I cant get that Hi Ho! song out of my head :old:
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Prometheus stank to high heaven felt like I had been conned after viewing it big hype big letdown when will I learn! :lol
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Abraham Lincoln vampire hunter?
Winston Churchill and the temple of doom :old:
Sir Hugh Dowding masked avenger.
Beggers belief :old:
By the way its not historical fact the new film about Abraham Lincoln killing vampires :old:
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Abraham Lincoln vampire hunter?
Winston Churchill and the temple of doom :old:
Sir Hugh Dowding masked avenger.
Beggers belief :old:
By the way its not historical fact the new film about Abraham Lincoln killing vampires :old:
yes it is...I read on the internet it was...so must be :uhoh
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I cannot find anything on this fact :old:
I started watching that Snow White film and was upset that Walt Disneys famous fable was without little people singing songs :old:
Why do they distort historical facts in such a manner :old:
Thanks by the way for Abraham doing all those Vampires in, I feel safe in my bed.
Thank goodness for Hollywood bringing us the real truth that has been kept from us :old:
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I have not watched the movie yet but it looks like it is a lot of computer generated special effects. I think the best all time WWII plane movie ever done was The Battle of Britain (1968). They used real planes and pilot. Many were real pilots that were in the Battle of Britain from both sides. Adolf Galland was an adviser on set as well as former squad leaders from the RAF. I know these guys are all gone or to old to fly now so computer stuff is what we end up with. As a side note the B-25 Mitchell bomber used to film The battle of Britain lived in Medina Ohio at Freedom Field after her movie work was done. I had a ride in it the summer after and it still had some of the camera mounts in it. If I recall right she crashed in Pennsylvanian in like 1971 or 72 and was destroyed.
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Robert Shaw fantastic :)
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The BOB probably had the most awsome "real shot" ever made in a war movie. The shots of the Spanish 111's all flying in formation was awsome. The scenes of the airfield being bombed was also, for the time, impressive pyrotechnics. But the Stuka shots were laughable, all and all the dialog was trite, and the Love scenes with the blond were awful except for the fact the blond was smoking hot. Dont get me wrong, I wore out a DVD of BOB I watched it so many times. But it was far from perfect.
What it was, was a WW2 flight movie and those things are rare enough without pecking them apart. 633 Squadron and Mosquito squadron are both pretty Lame movies but I love em anyway cause they have Mossies in them. Thats enough for me. I thought Damn Busters was pretty droll too. But since I Love watching Lancs its a classic for me, "a remake would have to find a new name for the dog". :uhoh
Actually I think the best shots in RedTails are of the P-40s. But lets face it, everyone of them seem to have one evil German or Japanese, highly skilled, pilot with a scar on his face that the good guys have to overcome. Its the nature of the genre. RedTails could have been better, but any film that honors the service of non-white US soldiers, sailors, and marines honors us all as well. It was a WW2 flight movie, which is pretty rare. So like it for what it is.
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Just watched "Fortress" about B17 crew +1
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The BOB probably had the most awsome "real shot" ever made in a war movie. The shots of the Spanish 111's all flying in formation was awsome. The scenes of the airfield being bombed was also, for the time, impressive pyrotechnics. But the Stuka shots were laughable, all and all the dialog was trite, and the Love scenes with the blond were awful except for the fact the blond was smoking hot. Dont get me wrong, I wore out a DVD of BOB I watched it so many times. But it was far from perfect.
What it was, was a WW2 flight movie and those things are rare enough without pecking them apart. 633 Squadron and Mosquito squadron are both pretty Lame movies but I love em anyway cause they have Mossies in them. Thats enough for me. I thought Damn Busters was pretty droll too. But since I Love watching Lancs its a classic for me, "a remake would have to find a new name for the dog". :uhoh
Actually I think the best shots in RedTails are of the P-40s. But lets face it, everyone of them seem to have one evil German or Japanese, highly skilled, pilot with a scar on his face that the good guys have to overcome. Its the nature of the genre. RedTails could have been better, but any film that honors the service of non-white US soldiers, sailors, and marines honors us all as well. It was a WW2 flight movie, which is pretty rare. So like it for what it is.
+1 Well said.
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Nah, nothing tops Pearl Harbor for garbage.
I'd have to disagree. I actually got all the way through Pearl Harbor. Only got about 3/4 of the way through Redtails before I gave up.
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Just watched "Fortress" about B17 crew +1
Zack, I'm surprised at you. Fortress was a dreadful horrible awful bag of smelly bottoms. I think I endured about 20 mins of this unadulterated tripe before bunging the said dvd into the appropriate receptacle :old:
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I will clarify :)
It was better than Redtails, admit I know this is no benchmark.
I watched the 13th Warrior the other day this is a entertaining film :)
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I will clarify :)
It was better than Redtails, admit I know this is no benchmark.
I watched the 13th Warrior the other day this is a entertaining film :)
one of my favorite movie's :aok
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Fantastic :)
I read the book its very good :)
I mean i opened the pages and looked like i could read :old:
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Best film I have seen this year....
Hands down it has to be Prometheus. There is no competition until Batman.
Sherlock Holmes though I haven't seen yet but desperately need to. LOVE RDJ.
#1 Avengers
#2 Ted
Why Promethius? I found it a movie in search of a plot. Those guys who wrote Lost, did it again. Another plotline that leaves more questions than answers, and of course the answers make no sense. I was annoyed at their attempt to take a "where did we come from" plotline, and fail at trying to make it an Alien prequel, just so they could tap the Alien franchise. :salute
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excuse the punt but I watched this film yesterday and thought it was pretty good!
Why were all you guys hating on it?? lets strip away the race / fake love story bit and historical inaccuracies for a sec.
It portrayed the Germans as evil BAD guys. check
had awesome CGI visuals I thought I was playing AH 4.0 from the get go.
the 109 did a jo / redbull / krup flip reversal I always go :eek: when they try it on my spitty.
Lightning HO ed a 262 and got splattered but not before it went BOOM!
he also killed a ship and a train single handedly with 50cal = awesome what a guy!
It had all the guts and thunder of a day in AH and from that POV I was like :rock. I want to login and kill some people. :banana:
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excuse the punt but I watched this film yesterday and thought it was pretty good!
Why were all you guys hating on it?? lets strip away the race / fake love story bit and historical inaccuracies for a sec.
It portrayed the Germans as evil BAD guys. check
had awesome CGI visuals I thought I was playing AH 4.0 from the get go.
the 109 did a jo / redbull / krup flip reversal I always go :eek: when they try it on my spitty.
Lightning HO ed a 262 and got splattered but not before it went BOOM!
he also killed a ship and a train single handedly with 50cal = awesome what a guy!
It had all the guts and thunder of a day in AH and from that POV I was like :rock. I want to login and kill some people. :banana:
:aok :aok
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:banana: :banana: old thread :banana: :banana:
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excuse the punt but I watched this film yesterday and thought it was pretty good!
Why were all you guys hating on it?? lets strip away the race / fake love story bit and historical inaccuracies for a sec.
It portrayed the Germans as evil BAD guys. check
had awesome CGI visuals I thought I was playing AH 4.0 from the get go.
the 109 did a jo / redbull / krup flip reversal I always go :eek: when they try it on my spitty.
Lightning HO ed a 262 and got splattered but not before it went BOOM!
he also killed a ship and a train single handedly with 50cal = awesome what a guy!
It had all the guts and thunder of a day in AH and from that POV I was like :rock. I want to login and kill some people. :banana:
These would perhaps be reasonable points, were it not for the fact that the film was vomit inducing :old:
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Bonkers. Just, pure bonkers.