Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: olds442 on January 10, 2012, 03:22:06 PM
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How dose these pics look bad?
(http://i40.tinypic.com/2qncfhf.jpg)
and this must look like its from 1998 :rolleyes:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/ciwk8.jpg)
and no image editing was used. my point for posting this is for the people who say "the bad graphics drive people away" how the??? how are these graphics bad? really get a new computer before you start making a bad rap for the games graphics when u can even run them on high and have video on 800x600 :rolleyes:
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I'd like to know where your reading that people say AH has bad graphics.
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Post some pics of other WW2 games to compare graphics. I honestly don't have a very good feel for where AH stands since this is the only one I fly and will ever fly.
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(http://img.brothersoft.com/screenshots/softimage/w/wings_of_prey-324051-1262229538.jpeg)
Wings of Prey.
AH doesn't have bad graphics, but it's not exactly Crysis either. I'm happy with it.
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(http://img.brothersoft.com/screenshots/softimage/w/wings_of_prey-324051-1262229538.jpeg)
Wings of Prey.
AH doesn't have bad graphics, but it's not exactly Crysis either. I'm happy with it.
looks pretty but sux hugely compared to AH.....if we had the graphics of crysis AH would not run the way it does. half the people wouldn't be able to play(half) is used figuratively :aok
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Rise of Flight.
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I'd like to know where your reading that people say AH has bad graphics.
There's been a thread going about it in the O'Club
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It may not have "bad graphics" but it doesn't have excellent, great, or good graphics. They're meh. It's our meh though.
Also eff everything about how you spelled the title.
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Rise of Flight.
Would be nice to have a sky and terrain looking like this in AH.
(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm94/Ack-Ack/2009_6_30__9_3_23.jpg)
ack-ack
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Would be nice to have a sky and terrain looking like this in AH.
(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm94/Ack-Ack/2009_6_30__9_3_23.jpg)
ack-ack
It's the clouds and their shadows that really make the effect there. If AH had them man would it look better.
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AH runs relatively well on 2 generations old, entry level graphics chips. nuff said
Something for something.
Whats missing is a better ground texture, but the patch is OTW :aok
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looks pretty but sux hugely compared to AH.....if we had the graphics of crysis AH would not run the way it does. half the people wouldn't be able to play(half) is used figuratively :aok
Right, but we're talking graphics here, and AH is a 6/10 for me. RoF and WoP gets a 9.5/10.
But you're right, and so is HTC's decision to not make AH "Crysis-standard". The game is a gift, better graphics would be an extra cake. :aok
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AH has great graphics on recent planes. Everything since around the time of the remodeled Hellcat. The problem is when you have old models still in the mix. The HTC staff still has many planes to remodel but only a small staff to do it with. Wish they would take a break on the GV-oriented stuff of late and bring at least the first generation models up to date.
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/zeke-1.png)
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/zeke-2.png)
The new A6M2 model looks amazing, however the Yak from 1999 doesn't:
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/yak-1.png)
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/yak-2.png)
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Looks ok to me, but then again having started with a green screen MS Flight Sim game way back when, I'm not real picky. If I can look out the window of my bird and see correctly skinned 38s from my Squad, it doesn't get much better then that :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap7-14.jpg)
Lots of clouds to contend with in the last scenario
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap6-18.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Snap16-5.jpg)
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Rise of Flight certainly is very pretty if you have a computer strong enough to run it...
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w220/Davis_Andrews/dawnpatrol.jpg)
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Wings of Prey has a fantastic game engine. Back when I was testing the beta I could pretty much run the game maxed out and still achieve a triple digit frame rate. I've not touched it since because it wasn't a hard core sim.
Rise of Flight also looks fantastic but I would say that it's definitely not that well optimised.
IL2- Cliffs of Dover has fantastic plane models but that's about it:
(http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/11/jan/dover4.jpg)
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IL2- Cliffs of Dover has fantastic plane models:
(http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/11/jan/dover4.jpg)
Sadly like IL2, the flight model isn't up to par. RoF on the other hand, has the eye candy and a flight model that is the equal, if not better than AH.
ack-ack
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RoF on the other hand, has the eye candy and a flight model that is the equal, if not better than AH.
ack-ack
RoF's flight model definitely "feels" more right then AH's WW1 arena.
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Sadly like IL2, the flight model isn't up to par. RoF on the other hand, has the eye candy and a flight model that is the equal, if not better than AH.
ack-ack
But the game engine is not equal to WoP. The graphics between WoP and RoF are very similar, yet I can't run RoF without seeing a slideshow (unless on the very lowest settings), while I can run WoP maxed out with 60+ FPS.
Radeon 5570, 4GB RAM, Windows 7 32 Bit, 2.9GHz Core2Duo.
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How dose these pics look bad?
(http://i40.tinypic.com/2qncfhf.jpg)
and this must look like its from 1998 :rolleyes:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/ciwk8.jpg)
and no image editing was used. my point for posting this is for the people who say "the bad graphics drive people away" how the??? how are these graphics bad? really get a new computer before you start making a bad rap for the games graphics when u can even run them on high and have video on 800x600 :rolleyes:
I don't believe you when you say no post production image editing was used. These images were clearly tampered with, you made AH look like Crysis with WW2 planes!!!
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But the game engine is not equal to WoP. The graphics between WoP and RoF are very similar, yet I can't run RoF without seeing a slideshow (unless on the very lowest settings), while I can run WoP maxed out with 60+ FPS.
Radeon 5570, 4GB RAM, Windows 7 32 Bit, 2.9GHz Core2Duo.
I got the same result when I tested RoF some time ago. I also didn't get much gain in FPS when lowering the settings, it was very odd.
Intel I7 @ 4.2Ghz
2x ATI 5850
6GB DDR3 RAM @ 1600mhz.
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I got the same result when I tested RoF some time ago. I also didn't get much gain in FPS when lowering the settings, it was very odd.
Intel I7 @ 4.2Ghz
2x ATI 5850 OC
6GB DDR3 RAM @ 1600mhz.
You might try RoF again, if it has been a long time since you tested it. I had purchased it when it first came out, then shelved it for over a year. When I came back to it a few months ago it seemed to run better then I had recalled.
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You might try RoF again, if it has been a long time since you tested it. I had purchased it when it first came out, then shelved it for over a year. When I came back to it a few months ago it seemed to run better then I had recalled.
Thanks, I did exactly the same thing, shelved it. I'll give it another chance even though I'm not really into WWI era of aerial combat.
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Il-2: Cliffs of Dover has absolutely beautiful graphics. The Do-17 and He-111 in it are SEXY BEAST. :x
I think AH would EASILY contend (if not out right beat them) with the other flight sims that are out there in both eye candy AND flight modeling if they had the manpower and financial power that the others possess. :aok
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What are the other 2 flight sims are you guys talking about and are they cool to play?
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Well at least IL2: Cliffs of Dover has the correct Barr & Stroud GM MKII gunsight in the spitI.
Round 76MM(3inch) glass with the 120Mil 100m.p.h. ring.
The generic MKII in our spitfires and Hurri is a MKII* POST BoB 1941 with the 114mm(4.5inch) square glass. The corners of the glass should also have pronounced quarter rounds. Hitech must own a real one becasue one of the serial numbers show a (/48) in at the end of it which means it is a MKII* refurbished in 1948. Or it's one of Waffels jokes to catch players like me.
Our spitI and HurriI should have the MKII round reflector glass Barr&Stroud model.
By the way if you look in the Typhoon you will notice the glass reflector rectangle is rendered vertical in front of the projector lense rather than angled toward you from behind the projector lense on the MKII gunsight. It is not attached to the two angled mounting brakets. But, then again in the F4U-1 the projector glass does not render on top of the gunsight body. It's just a black metal plate and it looks like the lense is rendered under it. Oh the inhumanity of it alllll.....
Waffel could put a Type I MKIII Beumont modfied gunsight in the Typhoon which renders a dot on the inside of the windscreen. That would be accurate for the late war Typhoons. Thats what is being attempted in the Tempest by not rendering the MKII's(/48) with reflector plate. At least when the Mossi VI was remodeled it got a properly rendered MKIII N projecting the graticle onto the windscreen.
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Rise of Flight.
Really Tobias? Really? Haven't seen that one.
:D
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Really Tobias? Really? Haven't seen that one.
:D
wrong, thanks for playing :D
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What are the other 2 flight sims are you guys talking about and are they cool to play?
Wings of Prey, IL2: Cliff of Dover, and Rise of Flight.
The first two have poor modeling but excellent graphics. Rise of Flight has both but is WWI only, and requires a monster of a machine to run fully maxed out.
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Wings of Prey, IL2: Cliff of Dover, and Rise of Flight.
The first two have poor modeling but excellent graphics. Rise of Flight has both but is WWI only, and requires a monster of a machine to run fully maxed out.
What taxes your system with RoF is running the game with the terrain on max detail.
ack-ack
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Wings of Prey, IL2: Cliff of Dover, and Rise of Flight.
The first two have poor modeling but excellent graphics. Rise of Flight has both but is WWI only, and requires a monster of a machine to run fully maxed out.
I wouldn't say monster at any stretch.
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I wouldn't say monster at any stretch.
That screenshot I posted was taken on my old machine (2.3GHz Dual Core; ATI AGP 3850; 2gigs RAM; WinXP) with high settings for everything but terrain (medium settings) and I was averaging a steady 40fps. Now with my new machine I can run at full settings on everything and get an average of 53fps. The RoF developers have made good improvements in lowering the resources needed with the updates during this past year.
ack-ack
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Hmm, maybe I'll take it off my shelf and redownload it again (3rd time), like I mentioned, I have a Radeon 5570 which is pretty low end. But my CPU is stronger than yours so I guess we'll see. Only I don't like from the last time I tried it was the fact that AI rear gunners seems to have some sort of 21st century laser targeted technology. It was either stay out of their line of fire or die in 2 bursts.
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Hmm, maybe I'll take it off my shelf and redownload it again (3rd time), like I mentioned, I have a Radeon 5570 which is pretty low end. But my CPU is stronger than yours so I guess we'll see. Only I don't like from the last time I tried it was the fact that AI rear gunners seems to have some sort of 21st century laser targeted technology. It was either stay out of their line of fire or die in 2 bursts.
There are a couple of mods available that help with that and also improve the way the AI fights.
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wrong, thanks for playing :D
:headscratch: Spikes a muppet... :huh spikes not in muppet roster... :O tobias in muppet roster... :aok spikes is tobias.
:old: Used power of deductive reasoning.
:D :P
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:headscratch: Spikes a muppet... :huh spikes not in muppet roster... :O tobias in muppet roster... :aok spikes is tobias.
:old: Used power of deductive reasoning.
:D :P
Ummm.....no :D
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Would be nice to have a sky and terrain looking like this in AH.
+1 but can't see AH ever competing on the graphics front.
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How dose these pics look bad?
(http://i40.tinypic.com/2qncfhf.jpg)
and this must look like its from 1998 :rolleyes:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/ciwk8.jpg)
and no image editing was used. my point for posting this is for the people who say "the bad graphics drive people away" how the??? how are these graphics bad? really get a new computer before you start making a bad rap for the games graphics when u can even run them on high and have video on 800x600 :rolleyes:
Same thing I see. AH graphics pretty nice. Can always improve but nice already. :aok
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+1 but can't see AH ever competing on the graphics front.
Me either. Its a shame really. AH would be truly amazing with better graphics. The only reason I'm still here is because of the GV's. If not for them I would have switched to another game with better graphics already.
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I can not run any of those games on my laptop.
I can play AH just fine, although low res with almost everything turned off, or way down. It looks pretty good to me. Especially the new plane and GV models from the last couple of years. (and I'm not even with hi res) The terrain is MEH..and clouds are worthless (which strikes me as odd considering it's a combat sim)
...but if those improved then it wouldnt run on my pc I bet... :uhoh
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yeah the only thing now that could get a nice improvment would be the skies IMO, clouds and stuff would create one dynamic feel to the simulator, but then if you go to AvA right now you will feel one amazing difference.
the beta has some new ground stuff and I think Aces high is moving forward, step by step, on the graphic's matter, imagine with all the planes remodeled just like the A6m's, this would already make a huge difference and I bet it is in work already :aok
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+1 but can't see AH ever competing on the graphics front.
You'll be very surprised at how good Aces High would look with post processing effects - HDR, bloom, dynamic exposure, volumetric light scattering (god rays), screen space ambient occlusion.
Just adding a few of the above would transform the way Aces High looks.
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I like AH graphics in general.
I don't like the colors used for terrain.
TOO MUCH DAMNED GREEN :D
:salute
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Rise of Flight would be good if it featured WW2 era airplanes, and a different business model.
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looks pretty but sux hugely compared to AH.....if we had the graphics of crysis AH would not run the way it does. half the people wouldn't be able to play(half) is used figuratively :aok
well,
i fly AH2 at 1900 * 1080 all features maxed out, just not self shadow, i get steady 70-85 frames. using vsync steady 60, never below
Wings of Prey at 1900 * 1080 all graphic features maxed oout, all shadow etc on, 3d clouds, i got 110-130 frames
suggestion, first checkout what you talking about! Better graphics does not mean lower framerates. AH2 compared with all other current avaible ww2 Fligh sims has one unique thing. The Arena concept. Dozens of events and scenarios, player driven content, sound packs etc. Currently there is no other Flight which reaches the overall level. But all new coming sims have new graphic engines. At Wings of Prey you can fly through real 3d clouds and have raindrops running over you canopy, looks and feels absolute amazing and gives a great feeling. Most long timers doesen't hurt that fact that other have better graphic, but new player just only see the graphics at first! Humans being controlled by the first impression! What you see is what you get! They see all the other great things at a second view, but only if they still here.....
Thats why i like to see these changes to bump mapping etc. Maybe HTC will change the clouds also soon. Its just great! So don't be so childish and wanna keep the old graphic engine, the world is turning, nobody waits for us. We need new customers, so we are in need to make the game look better. Thats what HTC is doing right now!
Salute
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I could think to buy a more performance pc, if AH bill was half time
then now for about ... 10 years :D
:salute
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you obviously missed when I said I have all those games and played them all. :rolleyes:
I never said I wouldn't be OK with updated graphics....
what I was basically saying is stop crying or go play those games if you like them so much. :aok
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You'll be very surprised at how good Aces High would look with post processing effects - HDR, bloom, dynamic exposure, volumetric light scattering (god rays), screen space ambient occlusion.
Just adding a few of the above would transform the way Aces High looks.
I'm not so sure. There are conscious design decisions that limit the eye candy: there are only 12 ground textures allowed per terrain and the grid for elevation, i.e. the grid that defines the terrain shape, is purposely coarse at 1/2 mile. That makes the terrain look very polygonal. But those decisions were made to optimize terrain download time: remember when there is a new terrain, or terrain mod, in AH the automatic update is so fast, a matter of only seconds, that it is pretty much unnoticeable. I personally would prefer, say, 256 ground textures and a elevation map spatial resolution of 165 ft, but if I got my wish everyone would immediately cancel as it would take hours to download a terrain update.
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You should see my graphic settings, its stuck around 1999 or 2000 - LOL I refuse to take screenshots mainly because of this.
Can't wait to see what Aces High actually looks like in a few weeks.
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TO theose who thing AH bbs az spelcheeker: :bolt:
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I'm not so sure. There are conscious design decisions that limit the eye candy: there are only 12 ground textures allowed per terrain and the grid for elevation, i.e. the grid that defines the terrain shape, is purposely coarse at 1/2 mile. That makes the terrain look very polygonal. But those decisions were made to optimize terrain download time: remember when there is a new terrain, or terrain mod, in AH the automatic update is so fast, a matter of only seconds, that it is pretty much unnoticeable. I personally would prefer, say, 256 ground textures and a elevation map spatial resolution of 165 ft, but if I got my wish everyone would immediately cancel as it would take hours to download a terrain update.
If this is truly the reason why AH terrain is the way it is, I suggest this...
When a new map, with the fancy kick butt graphics is available, have it auto download in the same manner that skins do now. Leave it in the system like that for a couple weeks and announce the crap out of it so everyone knows. Most active players will have it auto downloaded long before it is put into play.
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Many objects were improved over the years and that's great but....
Fix The Sun! :furious
...or don't have a setting or rising Sun. Just got killed by a tank hiding in it's awesome light :O as it shone through mountain!
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Ummm.....no :D
Prove it. :devil
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6 Screen shot from Wings of Prey from my 2010, i3, Radeon 5770 system.
From the Replay Film
(http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/578933579050598473/DBEED57844287B3F60054C0FB3DE80C578FFD336/)
(http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/577805776737067444/7B0D18C93E5BDA51B5AEEF792EF0122D1976CAA3/)
(http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/577805776743620799/C2805AF6D839030B44AC893EDE8A16DE147740E8/)
In Game
(http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/577805776720509897/890DAED9FB2C7FC3BFB1C8FE1257A15DFA693DF1/)
(http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/576677340151650076/49D38832EE51342BC8901ECB2C9BE593EF050C2B/)
(http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/577805776665593017/0BE5AFA815B42DC4980DB69B75FE6E0F1410C4BE/)
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What I see in AH is a game almost completely focused on aerial combat, or Air Combat Maneuvering (ACM). That is... where is the other guy in relation to you and how do you get guns on him? All these other games are all about simulating and visually representing a particular era the combat of that era and to a limited degree, Wings of Prey & Cliffs of Dover is WW2... Rise of Flight is WWI. So they limit themselves and can create this fantastic scenery after years of development (which is not continuous development) and give you something that simulate that particular niche of the genre. If you can't recognize what the niche is that HTC has ventured into and expanded upon since release, well then you don't understand what Aces High is in the first place. Sure... nothing wrong with better graphics, I'm all for it. But please look at what AH has that NONE of these other games have. Aces High has struck a golden combination of smooth gameplay supporting hundreds of people, visuals, continuous development, historical accuracy and community contact. WHAT other game HAS this?
Like I said, nothing wrong with wanting better graphics but... no reason to whine or call Aces High a bad game. Because Aces High is in a class of its own if get down to listing all the features.
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Like I said, nothing wrong with wanting better graphics but... no reason to whine or call Aces High a bad game. Because Aces High is in a class of its own if get down to listing all the features.
None of us says AH is bad, hell, we all play it. We're just dreaming about future eye candy and "what ifs?"
HTC made a great game, could it be better? Yes. There's always room for improvement and HTC continues to work at it. :cheers:
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Fix The Sun! :furious
yes the sun could use one nice fix together with the light effects, depending on which direction you look the ligh is different :uhoh
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Good enough for the girls I go out with.
Keep up the good work HTC
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None of us says AH is bad, hell, we all play it. We're just dreaming about future eye candy and "what ifs?"
HTC made a great game, could it be better? Yes. There's always room for improvement and HTC continues to work at it. :cheers:
:cheers:
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one of the last "Coral Sea" scenario terrain / weather and overall arena settings and game play was spectacular , there was also a few other scenarios that looked visually awesome......
compared to your everyday Main Arena play........
I see people keep posting that Aces High is using an old dated graphics engine, this just isn't the case...... as Skuzzy posted in another thread and confirmed what I had posted in an earlier post..... Skuzzy posted that Aces High / HTC is currently on their 3rd FM and Graphics engine at this time........
if HTC turned it up full bore, I would assume it would knock probably 3/4's of the users out of being able to play the game online......
we have had clouds, weather along with other things...... it is the customers / players who are being thought about the most in regards to this....... in the game/graphics engine before the last one which couldn't come close to this 3rd generation engine, we had clouds we could fly through & hide in...... if ircc it even seemed like we had "weather" to a degree, looked like it anyways.......
I like to think my PC is near the top for a top gaming rig....... if I max everything out and use 1920 x 1200 screen res, I can choke my system down to an average 29 to 30 FPS or there abouts in that new up and coming game made by the same people who made Wings Of Prey........ going by the 3d alpha benchmark....... I posted a handful of results over on their forum in that particular thread.......
What I see in AH is a game almost completely focused on aerial combat, or Air Combat Maneuvering (ACM). That is... where is the other guy in relation to you and how do you get guns on him? All these other games are all about simulating and visually representing a particular era the combat of that era and to a limited degree, Wings of Prey & Cliffs of Dover is WW2... Rise of Flight is WWI. So they limit themselves and can create this fantastic scenery after years of development (which is not continuous development) and give you something that simulate that particular niche of the genre. If you can't recognize what the niche is that HTC has ventured into and expanded upon since release, well then you don't understand what Aces High is in the first place. Sure... nothing wrong with better graphics, I'm all for it. But please look at what AH has that NONE of these other games have. Aces High has struck a golden combination of smooth gameplay supporting hundreds of people, visuals, continuous development, historical accuracy and community contact. WHAT other game HAS this?
Like I said, nothing wrong with wanting better graphics but... no reason to whine or call Aces High a bad game. Because Aces High is in a class of its own if get down to listing all the features.
nice post 33Vortex
TC
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if HTC turned it up full bore, I would assume it would knock probably 3/4's of the users out of being able to play the game online......
Heh. You've been reading over the old "no icons" posts?
The observation is plainly true. The remarkable thing (to me) is how good the graphics are, given the wide range of computers that can handle them.
- oldman
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I experimented that with hue setting on max, AH colors looks good now for me. No more too much damned green
and so i can see enemies planes better then before too.
:salute
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I think that undeniably some of the graphics in Aces High appear outdated compared to other products - particularly the terrain. The newer plane models look great, and I suspect the interior design is intentionally functional compared to realistic like in other games such as IL-2.
That said, the base download for AH is just over 200MB. I looked at a direct download for IL-2, and it's over twice that size (close to 500MB). I looked at a direct download for the Rise of Flight demo, and it was 3.7GB. MB for MB, AH clearly has the best "bang for the buck" around graphics-wise. Outdated in some aspects, yes, but it's amazing how compact they're able to keep the game without making enormous compromises. I've seen player mods for Neverwinter Nights that weighed in at more than 200MB.
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I wish HTC would licence World of Planes' game engine and create AHIII. :pray
(http://worldofplanes.ru/upload/image/media/screenshots/december_22nd_11.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Kzrt_-o5IA&feature=player_embedded
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I wish HTC would licence World of Planes' game engine and create AHIII. :pray
(http://worldofplanes.ru/upload/image/media/screenshots/december_22nd_11.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Kzrt_-o5IA&feature=player_embedded
I wish Kazaa would sign back in to AH and fight Midway. :pray
:frown:
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I wish Kazaa would sign back in to AH and fight Midway. :pray
:frown:
I wish I could get back into AH. :frown:
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Not sure if yall are trying to prove WOP is bad or good. You say good then post some pics that look bad.
I know folks who like that game will play that game. Folks who like Aces High will play this game.
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I wish HTC would licence World of Planes' game engine and create AHIII. :pray
(http://worldofplanes.ru/upload/image/media/screenshots/december_22nd_11.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Kzrt_-o5IA&feature=player_embedded
You know... As good as the P51 looks in that picture, the shell casing don't look right at all.
For me, the arguments that AH is fine how it is because it is a better simulator just don't make sense to me. I fear that AH falling behind on graphics will cause the player base to continually shrink as players churn.
The game needs to look good to attract more players. Then those who enjoy the realistic flight model will stay for that reason. But if they never get here because they initially chose the better looking game, how are they going to know that AH is better?
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The thing is, if any of these game publishers can do even part of what they say they’re trying to do, namely combine accurate flight and damage models with arcade play elements and outstanding graphics, I fear all the paying subscribers with high end PCs will migrate over. That will leave AH with all the people with low end rigs that want to migrate over as soon as they can upgrade. I can't help but hope that this is regularly discussed over in Fort Worth.
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The game needs to look good to attract more players. Then those who enjoy the realistic flight model will stay for that reason. But if they never get here because they initially chose the better looking game, how are they going to know that AH is better?
I agree with this, there is a threshold regarding graphics which should not be crossed. What all the other flight sim releases do, if anything, is raising that bar within the genre and for AH. This is a factor which HTC is aware of because what graphics upgrades have we had in the last few years?
However, there is also the customer group who couldn't tell the difference between realistic flight modeling and a simulated boat ride, and most of those will never be attracted to a game like AH simply because it is too darn difficult. I'm sure we all would like to have more targets around, but this is a fact which will always limit the AH customer base. At least that is what I hope because if AH would lower their ambitions of realism to attract more customers... I'll be one of those leaving. Seen it happen before in another game and it certainly didn't work out for them. I do believe HTC is smarter than that though.
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The thing is, if any of these game publishers can do even part of what they say they’re trying to do, namely combine accurate flight and damage models with arcade play elements and outstanding graphics, I fear all the paying subscribers with high end PCs will migrate over. That will leave AH with all the people with low end rigs that want to migrate over as soon as they can upgrade. I can't help but hope that this is regularly discussed over in Fort Worth.
IF is a big word and all have failed to this point. What IF folks who play those games decide that better FM is more important.
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When you look at the WoP sptifire video from the alpha, you will notice in the cockpit view they are increasing your lateral FoV so your 1 to 1 visual aspect for your head can be closer than in Aces High's default cockpit views. They do this by compressing the center of the view field which makes the 114mm square glass reflector plate on the GM MkII gunsight about 76mmW X 114mmH. This also means they are using a none historic main ring diameter for the reticle.
I've noticed in the youtube videos from some competitors that they use this strategy unlike AH which gives you a true 1:1 on full zoom. But, then I'm not sure how many AH players know anything about the real gunsights used by each nation in WW2 either. HTC may be a tad behind on the graphics but, they do a good job on the localised proportions.
You guys don't even realise you are WoP's Marketing Strategy. There are a few AH players who have been in their Alpha and more signing up for their beta. They have had their own people playing AH and reading this board to understand how to get you guys to throw HTC under the bus.
A few highly touched up stills from the game around the Internet. Then YouTube alpha testing game video that only shows you snap shots of action and never gives you time to realy see anything long enough to find the flaws in it. Their terrains are preaty much repeating tiles like ours. Just oriented to historical locations in the WW2 like our maps in the AvA and Scenarios. Our MA is a fantasy land and thats what the maps for it reflect in the terrain tiles. Their YouTube footage is showing a 2 country orientation for that game or the equivalent of our AvA or Scenarios. And you know how imbalanced the AvA can get when everyone wants to fly the best rides so their EGO's don't get hurt.
Just look at how many of you are hooked by this marketing strategy and are throwing Hitech under the bus in his own forum.
Unless you are an alpha tester for that game currently and will identafy your self, none of us know what it realy looks like at this point. So far everything being released to the Internet looks like it's being carefully targeted at a specific kind of unhappy usefull fool. He then is emboldened to infect others with his unhappienss by the virtue of looky, looky, guys. Shiney, shiney, things that go boom and flashy flashy everywhere you see..... theirs is OUR DREAM COME TRUE.
Welcome to Marketing 101........works good don't it??
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whatever you say bustr, AH still looks bad even compared to the older IL2 Sturmkovik series, so saying that WoP will look better than Aces High is a safe bet, even with Photoshopped screenshots.
AH2 engine is showing his age, also on the terrains topic, isn't it the custom textures that make the terrain files grow in size? I have trouble believing that more precise 3D coordinates would increase the terrain sizes beyond the acceptable.
HTC could start by reviewing/making more MA maps that use the refinements offered by the AH2 engine, not reprocessed boring and bad looking AH1 maps. It's been years and years we're waiting now.
Also in the years of broadband, 4.7Gb DVD's, 1Tb HDD's, the client download size is irrelevant. I'd download a 10Gb Aces high client with a big smile on my face.
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one of the last "Coral Sea" scenario terrain / weather and overall arena settings and game play was spectacular , there was also a few other scenarios that looked visually awesome......
compared to your everyday Main Arena play........
I see people keep posting that Aces High is using an old dated graphics engine, this just isn't the case...... as Skuzzy posted in another thread and confirmed what I had posted in an earlier post..... Skuzzy posted that Aces High / HTC is currently on their 3rd FM and Graphics engine at this time........
if HTC turned it up full bore, I would assume it would knock probably 3/4's of the users out of being able to play the game online......
we have had clouds, weather along with other things...... it is the customers / players who are being thought about the most in regards to this....... in the game/graphics engine before the last one which couldn't come close to this 3rd generation engine, we had clouds we could fly through & hide in...... if ircc it even seemed like we had "weather" to a degree, looked like it anyways.......
I like to think my PC is near the top for a top gaming rig....... if I max everything out and use 1920 x 1200 screen res, I can choke my system down to an average 29 to 30 FPS or there abouts in that new up and coming game made by the same people who made Wings Of Prey........ going by the 3d alpha benchmark....... I posted a handful of results over on their forum in that particular thread.......
nice post 33Vortex
TC
Just because a game can use a lot of performance doesn't mean it has good graphics. Sure I can turn shadows all the way up and get 10fps but it doesn't really make the game have good graphics.
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Just because a game can use a lot of performance doesn't mean it has good graphics. Sure I can turn shadows all the way up and get 10fps but it doesn't really make the game have good graphics.
+1, and these shadows are just a hinder when thaey make the gunsights unreadable
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You guys don't even realise you are WoP's Marketing Strategy. There are a few AH players who have been in their Alpha and more signing up for their beta. They have had their own people playing AH and reading this board to understand how to get you guys to throw HTC under the bus.
Lobbying... aka propaganda, lies and deception but it could also involve truth and just information. However, all dirty tricks are played and the target is our minds. It is all about how the target percieve the information they are recieving. In this case, it would be percieved as coming from just another community member, a customer just like you.
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...a specific kind of unhappy usefull fool. He then is emboldened to infect others with his unhappienss by the virtue of looky, looky, guys. Shiney, shiney, things that go boom and flashy flashy everywhere you see..... theirs is OUR DREAM COME TRUE.
Welcome to Marketing 101........works good don't it??
Spot on... works in politics too and it doesn't stop there! :aok
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Also in the years of broadband, 4.7Gb DVD's, 1Tb HDD's, the client download size is irrelevant. I'd download a 10Gb Aces high client with a big smile on my face.
I highly doubt that client size is irrelevant to HTC.
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I highly doubt that client size is irrelevant to HTC.
Likely true, but I would gladly download a 100gig file if it improves my overall AH experience.
:salute FPH Leviathn
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What I don't understand is why HTC wont make the graphics clip board with boxes to check for people who have pc's that can run graphics like the other sims out there.
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Just because a game can use a lot of performance doesn't mean it has good graphics. Sure I can turn shadows all the way up and get 10fps but it doesn't really make the game have good graphics.
+1, and these shadows are just a hinder when thaey make the gunsights unreadable
ok so both of you are now throwing World of Planes under the bus???? I do not understand either of y'alls replys quoting me........
I was refering to both Wings of Prey and World of Planes regarding how it will choke a person's system down if they try to max out the detail
I am an alpha tester for World of Planes,...... my take on it is if you like game play like Wings Of Prey, then you will / or you might like World of Planes
if you like Aces High's melee Arena, or as bustr put it, fantasy land with 3 sides fighting each other 24 / 7 , then you will rather play Aces high...
every mmo flight sim, since Air Warrior has always worked toward offering the ability of having more people online fighting at the same time........ wwiionline even promised a server with 1,000 people online, I remember that like it was yesterday........ not many have been able to do that and stay consistent with it......... ( I am talking about any flight sim capable of hosting 300 to 600 or more players on a continous uninterupted basis )
The main thing is, people will go play what interests them the most....... that is all there is to it.........
Aces High is one type of genre about WWII aerial , Sea and Land combat while WOPl or WOPr or WB3 or IL2(whatver expansion pack) are completely different types of genre about WWII Aerial Combat or Aerial and land Combat, or like Aces High has all 3 Air Sea and Land........ ( well WB3 is probably the closest to Aces High outof all the rest....... )
some of these flight sims have ok to decent flight models, some of them seem more arcadish......... some of them just plain outright suck.........
I am not going to say Aces High is better than any of them, nor will I say any of the others is better than Aces High......... no one can do that, because it is not an Apples to Apples comparison, it is like trying to compare Apples to Oranges......
and for christ's sake....... read what people write or reply in these threads..... how many other sims completely redesign their flight model / graphics -game engine every few years? Aces high has done it around 3 times........ people keep posting that Ace High is using a dated game engine, and do not even know what they are talking about.....
I also agree with bustr, these other flight sim developer/companys are doing exactly as he posted regarding his reply # 71 in this thread........
TC
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What I don't understand is why HTC wont make the graphics clip board with boxes to check for people who have pc's that can run graphics like the other sims out there.
Some like myself and possibly the OP would say that they already do. In any case, the grass will always be greener on the other side of the fence.
If you recall, or read on their about page, HTC has always intended to stay a small intimate company. With that in mind, they still pipeline the improvements to their game. We may still be playing with 3 or 4 generations of graphics models, yet none of them lack the physics component that has set AH2 apart from other WW2 sims (a pony handles characteristic to it's historical specs and not like a spitfire or a 109 or a corsair). While the relatively small staff and 3D modelers and skinners are banging out new metal and upgrading old metal, new art and graphics goodies are being developed side by side.
I have to say that as a matter of taste, I prefer the detailed terrain of AH2 to the cartoonish terrain of other "next generation" sims that it has been compared to. I most definitely enjoy the entire experience (multiple arenas, special events, community interaction, historical model accuracy, flight physics) and am somewhat blinded by it, to even notice anything other than what I should be doing next, to keep my cartoon pilot alive and end another's career.
Joachim, I fear that there is no slider that could be added to influence someone's personal opinion. Sure there might be a sharp angle here or there, that pierces the vail of reality that we are actually looking at a flatscreen. But if their would ever be a game to capture AH2's audience, it would need to do a lot more than look prettier. Also, just because a function has a slider, doesn't mean that was a simple task, either to create the button or make it functional. Let's not even go into the work gone into creating a "separate" world designed just for those few enthusiasts who believe they have a system to handle the eye candy.
I bet that a good portion of the bug complaints in the next version, will be folks complaining that they loose fps while flying with all the eye candy on. Here's a clue for those of you, turn the ground clutter off in flight, unless you are crop dusting, or strafing pollen clusters.
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whatever you say bustr, AH still looks bad even compared to the older IL2 Sturmkovik series, so saying that WoP will look better than Aces High is a safe bet, even with Photoshopped screenshots.
AH2 engine is showing his age, also on the terrains topic, isn't it the custom textures that make the terrain files grow in size? I have trouble believing that more precise 3D coordinates would increase the terrain sizes beyond the acceptable.
HTC could start by reviewing/making more MA maps that use the refinements offered by the AH2 engine, not reprocessed boring and bad looking AH1 maps. It's been years and years we're waiting now.
Also in the years of broadband, 4.7Gb DVD's, 1Tb HDD's, the client download size is irrelevant. I'd download a 10Gb Aces high client with a big smile on my face.
You obviously have not read this thread.
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Likely true, but I would gladly download a 100gig file if it improves my overall AH experience.
:salute FPH Leviathn
Question is.. would you pay to download a file that size?
There is cost involved on Ah side.
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Question is.. would you pay to download a file that size?
There is cost involved on Ah side.
Sure, or if the cost is too high to download, I'll gladly purchase the CD. :aok
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Studies on word of mouth PR by customers to potential new customers show the following as a consistant generalisation:
Every customer with a bad product experience will within 48 hours tell at a minimum 10 people the product sucks.
Every customer with a good product experience will tell maybe 10 people about it within 3 weeks or never.
You can see how subtile negative PR has a broader faster effect than positve PR in the Internet age. There are about 2% of the customer base who are never satisfied with most products or services. One might beleive their real satisfaction is in finding what dissatisfies them. They can be very engaging, authoritive, and convincing while communicating their dissatisfaction. Satisfaction with a service or product for the average consumer is sistered to doubt in ones choice. Look at the way automobile advertisments are structured. Choice is always a risk, and that risk's sister doubt is where the 2% do their damage.
Make the dissatisfied present their case in a full data supported format. Othere wise they are presenting you a false advertisemnt to part ways with your product. Then gaining the side benifit of enjoying your emotional discomfort while spitting in the manufactuer's eye in his own show room. Consider the disaffected's personal agenda more so than their issue with the product. (Flollow the Money so to say.) Why if they are so unhappy with this product do they continue to spend so much time at the showroom telling any customer who will listen how bad it is? Both you and the dissafected are aware that the manufactuer is a few feet away listening to the whole conversation.
The manufacturer cannot afford to say anything, becasue then you the customer having been primed by the disaffected's sales pitch will assume the manufacturer has something to hide. Why then as the customer are you entrusting your happiness into the hands of a person who dosen't care about you or your investment? But, wants to use you to spite the manufacturer while enjoying your gulibility as a bonus.
Word of mouth Pre-Marketing 101: Sow as many seeds of dissatisfaction in the competitors product by investing in the 2% who enjoy preying on the insecurity of the average customer. Spread a few flashy pictures on the Internet and some realy good looking videos and the 2% will spread their joy untill the real product is released. By then the legions of the dissatisfied will jump on the new product even if it's for a short time before leaving it.
There is absolutly no difference in Marketing or a Confidence Racket. They are preying on the same emotions and telling the same lies that your exact dreams will come true for a small sum. And if the Marketing company is smart, isn't paying any taxes either.
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I will play wop when it comes out just to play it. but if there's anything like wot then it will be the best players are those that can spend the most money rather than those who are skilled. wop will have nothing on aces high for those of us who would rather play for the fun of it rather than to get some higher tier plane. I can just imagine now having mig's and sabres in the arenas because you paid 30 bucks for the plane lust another 10 or 20 cents for each heat seeking missile. after all they do have the type59 tank in wot and the word is that wot is based on ww2 but not dedicated to it.
semp
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I will play wop when it comes out just to play it. but if there's anything like wot then it will be the best players are those that can spend the most money rather than those who are skilled. wop will have nothing on aces high for those of us who would rather play for the fun of it rather than to get some higher tier plane. I can just imagine now having mig's and sabres in the arenas because you paid 30 bucks for the plane lust another 10 or 20 cents for each heat seeking missile. after all they do have the type59 tank in wot and the word is that wot is based on ww2 but not dedicated to it.
semp
You mean WoWp?
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How realistic the game looks can also highly depend on factors like weather, terrain, aircraft skins, and shot composition -- things that aren't a matter of anything new in the game but just how the already-present capabilities are set.
Here are a bunch of shots from various scenarios that play around with the above factors in ways that might differ from what folks are used to (different clouds, different terrains, different sky color to simulate weather, etc.) along with shot composition intended to give best effect, of course.
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201110_enemyCoastAhead/pics/frame1/002-bombAway-Image-0001.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201110_enemyCoastAhead/pics/practiceFrame/007-spit9ourCoast2-Image-0011.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201110_enemyCoastAhead/pics/frame4/007-missTyphoon-Image-0010.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201110_enemyCoastAhead/pics/frame2/012-chasingDrBone-Image-0024.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201105_roadToRangoon/pics/frame4/009-bombers-Image-0016.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201102_battleOverGermany/pics/frame2/015-goForIt-Image-0024.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201008_philippinePhandango/pics/frame1/007-otwIn-Image-0013.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201003_finalBattle/pics/frame1/013-sturdy51-Image-0036.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/200910_redStormKruppSteel/pics/frame2/003-il2s-Image-0004.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/200910_redStormKruppSteel/pics/frame2/025-hit109-Image-0055.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/200910_redStormKruppSteel/pics/frame4/006-passing-Image-0020.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/200910_redStormKruppSteel/pics/frame1/010-hit190-Image-0018.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/200907_coralSea2009/pics/frame2/022-run-Image-0060.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/200907_coralSea2009/pics/frame1/009-brookeAndClone155-Image-0024.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/stalins_fourth/pics/frame2/005-RompaAA.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/stalins_fourth/pics/frame1/009-brookeAndGB.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/malta_2005/pics/frame3/f3_022_glideBack.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/200808_rangoon42/pics/frame3/001-takeoff-Image-0000.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/200808_rangoon42/pics/frame4/014-sbd-Image-0029.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/200907_coralSea2009/pics/frame1/032-otwBack-Image-0094.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/200907_coralSea2009/pics/frame1/033-theField-Image-0098.jpg)
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Rise of Flight.
Another 10minutes of my life has been wasted staring at spike's avatar
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Also in the years of broadband, 4.7Gb DVD's, 1Tb HDD's, the client download size is irrelevant. I'd download a 10Gb Aces high client with a big smile on my face.
In the years of broadband, 4.7Gb DVD's, 1Tb HDD's, I still have a 32kb/s download speed. If I've been a good boy.
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Another 10minutes of my life has been wasted staring at spike's avatar
:old: Appreciating the beauty of art and nature is never a waste of time.
Huh, Tobias (err I mean Spikes)?
:D
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First off, I'm not complaining. I just got back into AH after a ~three year hiatus and I'm lovin' every minute of it.
That said, it's time for AH3.
It's not just that the graphics are bad, it's that the engine is dated. You shouldn't be able to make a modern computer chug along with graphics like this just because you turned up the shadows. Seriously.
There's always people in threads like these who are concerned about whether their current hardware would run a modern AH, but...whether you like to admit it or not, and whether this game is the only one you play or not, you're still a gamer. And gamers have to upgrade their hardware. That's just the way it is.
BTW, this is coming from someone who would probably have to upgrade if we really did get an AH3. C2D @ 3.6ghz, 2GB RAM, 9800GT, WinXP. Well, upgrade to get the full experience anyway. I'm sure the game would run on this hardware, just not sure how well.
Also, maybe it's because I'm used to paying $30-50 for a game and that's it. But a new plane model here and there doesn't make me and my $15/month happy. Yeah, I know, servers bandwidth blah blah blah. Still, it adds up. But, like I said, I'm not complaining (that much). At this point in my life I'm perfectly happy to pay monthly for the kind of experience I get here. No other game gets my blood going quite like this one. Doesn't mean I have to stay quiet about it. :devil
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:old: Appreciating the beauty of art and nature is never a waste of time.
Huh, Tobias (err I mean Spikes)?
:D
If you had to survive by fishing alone................
You'd starve to death :D
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It's not just that the graphics are bad, it's that the engine is dated. You shouldn't be able to make a modern computer chug along with graphics like this just because you turned up the shadows. Seriously.
Then buy an old computer, problem solved ; your modern computer is no longer 'suffering' through these 'bad' graphics.
How do you know whether or not the engine is outdated? Did you create it or help with its upkeep? If not, you've never been hit by a cluebyfour.
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This was just posted by USRanger in another thread, but it works here.
(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/374/firemw.jpg)
I dont know but that looks good to me.
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Wow that looks good.
Except that the ground clutter...well..kinda disappears quite abruptly. I was told it was not possible to extend it, which honestly sucks, but damn imagine if it did, it would be pretty on par with most other mmo's Wish my PC could show those graphics.
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Wow that looks good.
Except that the ground clutter...well..kinda disappears quite abruptly. I was told it was not possible to extend it, which honestly sucks, but damn imagine if it did, it would be pretty on par with most other mmo's Wish my PC could show those graphics.
Actually not so. As I've said before it seems that the AH2 graphics engine has severe problems with handling shadows and reflections, the latter which are missing almost totally.
One notable thing is that other games do not require the use of 8 meg shadow textures, which effectively eat up all vram, to produce semi-decent shadowing effect. This in itself shows something is flawed in the design.
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I wish HTC would licence World of Planes' game engine and create AHIII. :pray
(http://worldofplanes.ru/upload/image/media/screenshots/december_22nd_11.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Kzrt_-o5IA&feature=player_embedded
Download WoP benchmark and run it. Compare the avg FPS with what you get in AH. You'll realize that state of AH graphics makes sense for a game that it is.
Unless you want to play with maybe 10 another peeps in MA during prime time, you shouldn't wish for WoP=AHIII...
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One notable thing is that other games do not require the use of 8 meg shadow textures, which effectively eat up all vram, to produce semi-decent shadowing effect. This in itself shows something is flawed in the design.
Many games are using texture based shadows, but not many have settings for texture size, and just because you don't understand HTC's design goals doesn't mean design is flawed.
You can play AH with most settings maxed on mid-range graphic card, you can't do that with any other games mentioned in this thread.
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:O :joystick: I want that terrain!!!!!
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First off, I'm not complaining. I just got back into AH after a ~three year hiatus and I'm lovin' every minute of it.
That said, it's time for AH3.
It's not just that the graphics are bad, it's that the engine is dated. You shouldn't be able to make a modern computer chug along with graphics like this just because you turned up the shadows. Seriously.
There's always people in threads like these who are concerned about whether their current hardware would run a modern AH, but...whether you like to admit it or not, and whether this game is the only one you play or not, you're still a gamer. And gamers have to upgrade their hardware. That's just the way it is.
BTW, this is coming from someone who would probably have to upgrade if we really did get an AH3. C2D @ 3.6ghz, 2GB RAM, 9800GT, WinXP. Well, upgrade to get the full experience anyway. I'm sure the game would run on this hardware, just not sure how well.
Also, maybe it's because I'm used to paying $30-50 for a game and that's it. But a new plane model here and there doesn't make me and my $15/month happy. Yeah, I know, servers bandwidth blah blah blah. Still, it adds up. But, like I said, I'm not complaining (that much). At this point in my life I'm perfectly happy to pay monthly for the kind of experience I get here. No other game gets my blood going quite like this one. Doesn't mean I have to stay quiet about it. :devil
Asking for AH3 is meaningless, it's just a name. In fact, HTC changed the named of the game from Aces High 2 back to Aces High, which makes sense. The newest downloadable version is always the latest game version.
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Download WoP benchmark and run it. Compare the avg FPS with what you get in AH. You'll realize that state of AH graphics makes sense for a game that it is.
Unless you want to play with maybe 10 another peeps in MA during prime time, you shouldn't wish for WoP=AHIII...
I have the benchmark on my 2009 gaming system. Below are my computer specs, benchmark settings and results.
Intel core I7 2.6Ghz @ 4.0Ghz.
6GB RAM @1600mhz DDR3, 8-8-8-24.
ATI HD5850 X2 (Please note that WoP doesn't currently have a CAP profile so multi GPU scaling is non existent. Only one GFX card was used during the test)
I have no love for motion blur so it wasn't used in this benchmark.
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/Image1-1.jpg)
Results for day benchmark (massive amounts of volumetric clouds)
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/Image2.jpg)
Results for night benchmark (much less amounts of volumetric clouds)
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/aces2012-01-1318-45-47-77.jpg)
Conclusion
Even without CF support the game runs butter smooth.
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I have the benchmark on my 2009 gaming system. Below are my computer specs, benchmark settings and results.
Intel core I7 2.6Ghz @ 4.0Ghz.
6GB RAM @1600mhz DDR3, 8-8-8-24.
ATI HD5850 X2 (Please note that WoP doesn't currently have a CAP profile so multi GPU scaling is non existent. Only one GFX card was used during the test)
I have no love for motion blur so it wasn't used in this benchmark.
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/Image1-1.jpg)
Results for day benchmark (massive amounts of volumetric clouds)
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/Image2.jpg)
Results for night benchmark (much less amounts of volumetric clouds)
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/aces2012-01-1318-45-47-77.jpg)
Conclusion
Even without CF support the game runs butter smooth.
Wassup cheddarbob! :D
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Bwahahaha! Wassup!
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This was just posted by USRanger in another thread, but it works here.
I dont know but that looks good to me.
When did AH start rendering lens flare??
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My thoughts exactly... Plus the 190 is boxy compared to other new models. It was one of the earlier ones.
See here for the P-39:
http://downloads.hitechcreations.com/news/images/p39d/p39d5.jpg
See here for a 109:
http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201102_battleOverGermany/pics/frame4/008-backTo47s-Image-0011.jpg
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(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/200907_coralSea2009/pics/frame1/033-theField-Image-0098.jpg)
Is that how nighttime looks in AH? That looks fantasic!
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My thoughts exactly... Plus the 190 is boxy compared to other new models. It was one of the earlier ones.
See here for the P-39:
http://downloads.hitechcreations.com/news/images/p39d/p39d5.jpg
See here for a 109:
http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201102_battleOverGermany/pics/frame4/008-backTo47s-Image-0011.jpg
All of the second gen models look outdated when compared to the newer ones. Don't even get me started on the Spitfire...
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Welcome the 2% as they become emboldened in their dissafection for HTC while reveling they don't care about anyone elses problems. That negative Marketing I was speaking about earlier Mr. CheddarBob.
Follow the money or motivation by looking at his PC specifications and game test results in the flashy pictures. The login message makes me think he is an Alpha tester for WoP, or signed up for the Beta. Tickle sister doubt while expressing your dissafection for HTC with a bold and flashy picture presentation. Eventualy other 2% will express themselves if Hitech allows this post to continue in this fashion. Or it's just that point in WoP's production strategy to get more players into the upcomming Beta phase.
Aces High looks a certain way. Even with the most powerful gaming PC on the market today, it still looks that way. The essence of Aces High is two fighters on a mat killing each other. Best man wins. Not a panoramic eyeball fest which is the only other way to compete against Aces High. The Big Lie being told here from the dissaffected is that they don't know what the essence of Aces High is. Then hiding behind this Lie to sell any player who can be infected by their Lie that Aces High is a dated POS.
Does anyone know what the end of life date is for Microsoft's support of XP sp3?
Sometime in 2014. How many current players are running XP sp3??????????
There is a small snapshot file that updates HTC to your basic PC stats like OS, CPU, and video card everytime you logon I beleive. It's in your Settings directory called (sysinfo.cfg).
Which version of DirecX is XP stuck at? Dx9.
The other part of the Lie is the dissaffected have been angry at Hitech for as long as I can remember. Specificaly for not making Aces High as eyeball festively modern and flashy as they wanted every time they complained in this forum over the years. Which would mean heartlesly crapping on part of HTC's consumer base who could not afford to upgrade to the dissafecteds elitist gaming hardware standards. Looks like WoP was listening and looking for a few good dissafected Jedi.
----------------------------------------------------------
Act01, Scene 144. Year 12 of the New Era.
But the Dark Side of the Force was STRONG with the Dissaffected and they NEEEEEDed their revenge for years of being ignored by the Hitech. So they proselytized the Dark Side in the house of HTC in the hopes of stealing converts to their new religion. Long live the Dark Side for it dazzles your need for bright and flashy. Feeds your desire to leave your body. Gives all that has been longed for and trecherously denighed by the House of HTC. The time is near and your dreams will be realised in the Dark Side.
Got Milk?
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The Big Lie being told here from the dissaffected is that they don't know what the essence of Aces High is. Then hiding behind this Lie to sell any player who can be infected by their Lie that Aces High is a dated POS.
QFT
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Welcome the 2% as they become emboldened in their dissafection for HTC while reveling they don't care about anyone elses problems. That negative Marketing I was speaking about earlier Mr. CheddarBob.
Follow the money or motivation by looking at his PC specifications and game test results in the flashy pictures. The login message makes me think he is an Alpha tester for WoP, or signed up for the Beta. Tickle sister doubt while expressing your dissafection for HTC with a bold and flashy picture presentation. Eventualy other 2% will express themselves if Hitech allows this post to continue in this fashion. Or it's just that point in WoP's production strategy to get more players into the upcomming Beta phase.
Aces High looks a certain way. Even with the most powerful gaming PC on the market today, it still looks that way. The essence of Aces High is two fighters on a mat killing each other. Best man wins. Not a panoramic eyeball fest which is the only other way to compete against Aces High. The Big Lie being told here from the dissaffected is that they don't know what the essence of Aces High is. Then hiding behind this Lie to sell any player who can be infected by their Lie that Aces High is a dated POS.
Does anyone know what the end of life date is for Microsoft's support of XP sp3?
Sometime in 2014. How many current players are running XP sp3??????????
There is a small snapshot file that updates HTC to your basic PC stats like OS, CPU, and video card everytime you logon I beleive. It's in your Settings directory called (sysinfo.cfg).
Which version of DirecX is XP stuck at? Dx9.
The other part of the Lie is the dissaffected have been angry at Hitech for as long as I can remember. Specificaly for not making Aces High as eyeball festively modern and flashy as they wanted every time they complained in this forum over the years. Which would mean heartlesly crapping on part of HTC's consumer base who could not afford to upgrade to the dissafecteds elitist gaming hardware standards. Looks like WoP was listening and looking for a few good dissafected Jedi.
----------------------------------------------------------
Act01, Scene 144. Year 12 of the New Era.
But the Dark Side of the Force was STRONG with the Dissaffected and they NEEEEEDed their revenge for years of being ignored by the Hitech. So they proselytized the Dark Side in the house of HTC in the hopes of stealing converts to their new religion. Long live the Dark Side for it dazzles your need for bright and flashy. Feeds your desire to leave your body. Gives all that has been longed for and trecherously denighed by the House of HTC. The time is near and your dreams will be realised in the Dark Side.
Got Milk?
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :aok
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I have the benchmark on my 2009 gaming system. Below are my computer specs, benchmark settings and results.
Intel core I7 2.6Ghz @ 4.0Ghz.
6GB RAM @1600mhz DDR3, 8-8-8-24.
ATI HD5850 X2 (Please note that WoP doesn't currently have a CAP profile so multi GPU scaling is non existent. Only one GFX card was used during the test)
I have no love for motion blur so it wasn't used in this benchmark.
Conclusion
Even without CF support the game runs butter smooth.
You didn't compare it to AH with similar settings. I did. You get nearly twice the frame rate in AH. Imagine players who get 100FPS or less in AH. How many are they? They'd get 50FPS or less in WoP (or hypothetical AHIII). Bellow 50 is hardly playable. How many would have to upgrade their hardware? How many wouldn't upgrade and just leave AH altogether?
Can HTC afford experiment like that with already low subscriber numbers?
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Many games are using texture based shadows, but not many have settings for texture size, and just because you don't understand HTC's design goals doesn't mean design is flawed.
You can play AH with most settings maxed on mid-range graphic card, you can't do that with any other games mentioned in this thread.
As many have shown with an advanged game engine you can run superb graphics with mid level hardware. In AH2 the engine looks and feels years old and the feeling does not change when ramping up the settings to the max. It reminds me of F1 2002 a bit if I remember the year right... That game was choppy on 2002 hardware and continues to be choppy on 2012 hardware. I remember booting it up for shiggits and giggles because it used to be the game where I wondered when would there be fast enough computer to run it smoothly.
Yay 10 years later it was still choppy. Except now the graphics were totally dated and the new F1 game had a mindbogglingly more advanced graphics and still running much faster on the same hardware :)
The game engine makes all the difference. Among all this complaining you should remember that HTC is a very small company that has very limited resources and income. They can't work miracles.
AH2 excells in flight model, online play and general fun factor. Even if you took all the graphics sliders to the minimum and played at 640x480 the core experience of AH is still there. Something you can NOT say about wings of prey, IL2 cliffs of bend over or the likes IMO.
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You didn't compare it to AH with similar settings. I did. You get nearly twice the frame rate in AH. Imagine players who get 100FPS or less in AH. How many are they? They'd get 50FPS or less in WoP (or hypothetical AHIII). Bellow 50 is hardly playable. How many would have to upgrade their hardware? How many wouldn't upgrade and just leave AH altogether?
Can HTC afford experiment like that with already low subscriber numbers?
I don't think most of the settings in WoP go low enough to directly compare it to AH with similar settings. The clouds are so much more detailed; the ocean isn't a flat 2D surface, it's also animated; I can't toggle off the lighting, particle and post process effects either. Don't forget that the software is still in beta and could possible be optimised further. If you could only hypothetical render AHIII* (maximum settings) at 50FPS then you wouldn't have to upgrade hardware, just lower a few resource hungry settings to achieve the magical 60FPS. Fact is, even with everything turned off, not only do you gain a lot more FPS but it still arguably looks better than Aces High.
What about all the revenue lost from potential customers who don't give Aces High a chance because they can't get past how dated the game looks? I've lost count at how many times I've had to defend Aces High's honour in other gaming circles. Can't HTC just add the eye candy but make it a toggleable option? Win, win?
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Bwahahaha! Wassup!
:rofl
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and for christ's sake....... read what people write or reply in these threads..... how many other sims completely redesign their flight model / graphics -game engine every few years? Aces high has done it around 3 times........ people keep posting that Ace High is using a dated game engine, and do not even know what they are talking about.....
It sounds like you are one of those people who don't know what they are talking about. Aces High hasn't redone their engine. They have made some better textures and added some new features. The core game is still the same as it ever has been. All they have done is add small cosmetics.
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It sounds like you are one of those people who don't know what they are talking about. Aces High hasn't redone their engine. They have made some better textures and added some new features. The core game is still the same as it ever has been. All they have done is add small cosmetics.
TC was correct in his posts. HiTech, Pyro and Skuzzy have each said parts of the engine have been rebuilt, and not just adding small cosmetic changes.
ack-ack
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TC was correct in his posts. HiTech, Pyro and Skuzzy have each said parts of the engine have been rebuilt, and not just adding small cosmetic changes.
ack-ack
The engine has not changed you said it yourself, "parts of the engine have been rebuilt" the thing is it is still the same engine. A new engine would be like going from Battlefield 2 to Battlefield 3. Completely different engine. AH is using the same core components and the same engine and just changing parts of it to suit their needs. It is the same.
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:rofl :rofl :rofl :noid :rofl :rofl :rofl
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This is turning into a very functional Honey Pot for 2%er Bees.
There is nothing wrong with customer dissatisfaction since it's a valid source of feed back towards product or process improvment. Customer dissatisfaction becomes a problem when the dissatisfaction is it's own emotional reward. Learning to know the two kinds of customer can be an art.
One is valuble to the growth of the company becasue they understand by being given a forum to complain in they are valuble to the company. The other is toxic to the longevity of current customers and by it's own self reward function a deterent to new customers if they are exposed unprepaired to it. Revenge for percieved injury by the dissatisfaction is often the primary motivation of the toxic driven through out their lives.
Welcome to the guessing game.
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This is turning into a very functional Honey Pot for 2%er Bees.
There is nothing wrong with customer dissatisfaction since it's a valid source of feed back towards product or process improvment. Customer dissatisfaction becomes a problem when the dissatisfaction is it's own emotional reward. Learning to know the two kinds of customer can be an art.
One is valuble to the growth of the company becasue they understand by being given a forum to complain in they are valuble to the company. The other is toxic to the longevity of current customers and by it's own self reward function a deterent to new customers if they are exposed unprepaired to it. Revenge for percieved injury by the dissatisfaction is often the primary motivation of the toxic driven through out their lives.
Welcome to the guessing game.
I hope I don't sound dissatisfied. The game is great it does its job flawlessly. I'm just trying to tell the truth.
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One is valuble to the growth of the company becasue they understand by being given a forum to complain in they are valuble to the company.
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When did AH start rendering lens flare??
They don't. I added it to the pic.
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It sounds like you are one of those people who don't know what they are talking about. Aces High hasn't redone their engine. They have made some better textures and added some new features. The core game is still the same as it ever has been. All they have done is add small cosmetics.
maybe HiTech, Pyro or Skuzzy will come along and hand out a clue rake for you, so you will not be so lost.....
it is all over these forums in different posts, as well as the different versions that HTC has come out with about Aces high
example: Aces High went through an overhaul to a new modeling/graphics engine when it went from Aces High to Aces High II
I will stop with that...... no need to argue with someone who clearly does not want to acknowledge anything anyone tells them to be so.......
AckAck just told you that it is correct , yet you go and tear his post apart getting so technical as to tell him that he said Aces high only has rebuilt parts of its engine........
if you do not think I know what I am talking about or posting, then by all means call HTC up and ask them your damn self.......
or you can go and look at the other thread in the Officers Club, where Skuzzy posted that Aces high is on its 3rd engine.....
you reference BF2 and BF3 ......... what makes you think that these 2 versions are done by 2 completely different game design engines? most of what I read/researched, was BF2 was so taxing on peoples PC's that they had to go in and redo it to lower the resource hogging that BF2 was doing..... BF3 actually has a lower cpu/graphics/memory draw / usage... than BF2 had .......
anyways, good luck with that cluerake
TC
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I have the benchmark on my 2009 gaming system. Below are my computer specs, benchmark settings and results.
Intel core I7 2.6Ghz @ 4.0Ghz.
6GB RAM @1600mhz DDR3, 8-8-8-24.
ATI HD5850 X2 (Please note that WoP doesn't currently have a CAP profile so multi GPU scaling is non existent. Only one GFX card was used during the test)
I have no love for motion blur so it wasn't used in this benchmark.
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/Image1-1.jpg)
Results for day benchmark (massive amounts of volumetric clouds)
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/Image2.jpg)
Results for night benchmark (much less amounts of volumetric clouds)
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/aces2012-01-1318-45-47-77.jpg)
Conclusion
Even without CF support the game runs butter smooth.
you must have one awesomely built gaming rig, Kazaa...... to have such high FPS rates with everything maxed out....... below is my benchmark results and my pc specs for the WOP alpha benchmark:
Link to my post in the benchmark thread on the WOP Gaijin forums:
http://forum.gaijinent.com/index.php?/topic/4081-world-of-planes-directx-9-benchmark-feedback/page__st__309
[quote name='TC_aka_TequilaChaser' timestamp='1316673028' post='31099']
Good Evening,
my latest Benchmarks:
1024x768 Screen resolution V-Sync Off
game graphics MAXed Out
FX Slider Maxed Out
all ticked in post effects:
Day mission:
Average FPS 147.4
Minimal FPS Factor 103.1
Rating 33559
1680 x 1050 Screen resolution V-Sync Off
game graphics HIGH setting
FX Slider Maxed Out
all ticked in post effects:
Evening mission:
Average FPS 74.1
Minimal FPS Factor 32.2
Rating 16853
1920 x 1200 Screen resolution V-Sync Off
game graphics Maxed Out setting
FX Slider Maxed Out
all ticked in post effects:
Morning mission:
Average FPS 44.6
Minimal FPS Factor 17.5
Rating 10140
1920 x 1200 Screen resolution V-Sync ON
game graphics Maxed Out setting
FX Slider Maxed Out
all ticked in post effects:
Morning mission:
Average FPS 33.5
Minimal FPS Factor 15.6
Rating 7619
my computer Spec's:
* Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit
*Thermaltake Level 10 GT (VN10001W2N) Black SECC / Plastic ATX Full Tower Computer Case
*Thermaltake Black Widow W0319RU 850W ATX 12V v2.3, EPS 12V v2.91 CrossFire Certified 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
*ASUS P8Z68 Deluxe LGA 1155 Intel Z68 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
*Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I72600K
*CORSAIR CAFA70 120mm Dual-Fan CPU Cooler
*Crucial M4 CT128M4SSD2 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive <--- flashed with Crucial SSD firmware rev 009
*HITACHI Deskstar 7K3000 HDS723015BLA642 (0F12114) 1.5TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
*CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CML16GX3M4A1600C9B
*XFX HD-695X-CDDC Radeon HD 6950 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 <------------------------------------------------------------------------------> currently using XFX AMD/ATI Cat. 11.8 drivers
*ASUS Xonar DS 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Audio Card
*ASUS Black 12X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 12X DVD-RAM 8X BD-ROM 8MB Cache SATA Blu-ray Burner BW-12B1LT LightScribe Support
*LG Black 10X BD-ROM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM SATA Internal Blu-ray Drive DVD-DL Rewriter LightScribe Support - Model UH12LS28
*Koutech IO-RCM621 All-in-one USB 2.0 3.5" USB 2.0 Front Panel Multi-format Card Reader with USB 2.0 Port
*Hanns-G HZ281HPB 27.5'' 3ms Full HD 1080P HDMI WideScreen LCD Monitor Built-in Speakers
*TekNmotion TM-YB100A 3.5mm Connector Circumaural Black Yapster Universal Gaming Headset
*Logitech G510 gaming Keyboard wired USB
*GIGABYTE GM-M6880 Noble Black 5+1 Buttons 1 x Wheel USB Wired Lazer Dual Lens Gaming Mouse
* CH Products USB Fighter Stick, USB ProThrottle, USB Pro Pedals
I am thinking that all those Higher numbered Benchmark reports are at the original benchmark-install default setting of ---> 1024x768 screen res / graphic Option = high setting,
I don't think that anyone knew they could change anything on their first run of the benchmark........
just an assumption
<S>
TC
[/quote]
wondering why mine are so bad, for the 1920 x 1200 vsync off everything maxed out on the graphics.........
oh well........... <S>
TC
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As many have shown with an advanged game engine you can run superb graphics with mid level hardware. In AH2 the engine looks and feels years old and the feeling does not change when ramping up the settings to the max. It reminds me of F1 2002 a bit if I remember the year right... That game was choppy on 2002 hardware and continues to be choppy on 2012 hardware. I remember booting it up for shiggits and giggles because it used to be the game where I wondered when would there be fast enough computer to run it smoothly.
Yay 10 years later it was still choppy. Except now the graphics were totally dated and the new F1 game had a mindbogglingly more advanced graphics and still running much faster on the same hardware :)
The game engine makes all the difference. Among all this complaining you should remember that HTC is a very small company that has very limited resources and income. They can't work miracles.
AH2 excells in flight model, online play and general fun factor. Even if you took all the graphics sliders to the minimum and played at 640x480 the core experience of AH is still there. Something you can NOT say about wings of prey, IL2 cliffs of bend over or the likes IMO.
Couldn't agree more.
The thing with modern engines is that they aren't exactly easy to produce. And with HTC's small staff I have doubts about whether a complete revamp is even attainable. Sure, I'd love an AH with all the eye candy a modern engine can provide...but I've seen more than one company go south once they decided to expand, so I definitely respect their decision to stay small.
Asking for AH3 is meaningless, it's just a name. In fact, HTC changed the named of the game from Aces High 2 back to Aces High, which makes sense. The newest downloadable version is always the latest game version.
Then buy an old computer, problem solved ; your modern computer is no longer 'suffering' through these 'bad' graphics.
How do you know whether or not the engine is outdated? Did you create it or help with its upkeep? If not, you've never been hit by a cluebyfour.
What remarkable additions to the thread! Thanks! :neener:
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I don't think that AH graphics is so bad after all.
I recognize that my hue settings were wrong - they was on a medium level.
I adjust they - put they at maximum - and now colors look so well that the only
differences between AH and Wings of Prey are a matter of palette choosed to
color the terrains by AH staff and WOP respectively.
Max hue means that every color look exactly like they are in 'nature'.
I can play WOP whit my pc with poor frame rate but I think that it's graphic is
a bit as a 'cartoon's graphic'. It don't add nothing more to the game.
Here the problem is that WE HAVE VERY POOR ARENA TERRAIN COLORS AND PATTERNS DEVELOPMENT.
I'm pretty sure that if we have also just one or two different arena terrain color and patterns all this
discussions would be not do.
:salute
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you must have one awesomely built gaming rig, Kazaa...... to have such high FPS rates with everything maxed out....... below is my benchmark results and my pc specs for the WOP alpha benchmark:
Link to my post in the benchmark thread on the WOP Gaijin forums:
http://forum.gaijinent.com/index.php?/topic/4081-world-of-planes-directx-9-benchmark-feedback/page__st__309
wondering why mine are so bad, for the 1920 x 1200 vsync off everything maxed out on the graphics.........
oh well........... <S>
TC
Thank you, I'm very proud of my 2009 build. It cost me around Ł1,100.00 and was my first ever "do it yourself" build. I added the second graphics card later once prices for the ATI HD5850 dropped from Ł250 to Ł180.
Maxing out the FX slider will destroy your FPS, it also does it on my machine. If you look at my benchmarks I have the slider all the way to the left. Do the same and I'm sure you'll be much happier with the results.
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Let me share something with you guys. I bought Rise of Flight long time ago not long after it was released, tested it in single player and flew a few missions. I don't believe I have spent more than a couple hours or so in it since then. The WW1 era aircraft are more like kites, the aerodynamic properties of the wings (and whole a/c) are just so poor and yes flying was in its infancy at the time. I find the feeling to be more like drifting with the wind in a kite, than actually controlled flight. Air combat is very close-range and the vertical can't be used much because of structural limits of the kites. Weapons are crude and not really effective, many times a kill is the result of killing/fatally injuring the pilot.
All in all, WW1 era is not mature air combat wise. Which makes it boring, but that is just me... I know a lot of people are charmed by the sheer beauty and immersion of the game. My perspective however is that Aces High is superior... I mean come on, we had 360 players last night in FSO, it was a riot. :rock
No visual effects can ever replace the experience of upping with friends in squadron strength and the chatter on vox throughout the event, but again... that's just me.
:cheers:
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CBA.
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The game is unplayable after the last update. With other games I have no problem.
The graphics look like game of 2000 year. I still useable framerate 30-16 with full detail. WTF?
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I agree with everything you said. But a more realistic looking sim is much more immersive and that's what us simmers are chasing, the most immersive experience possible.
Of course it is, but the mass engagements we see in Aces High (with actual people) is just not possible in these other games. It is the essence of Aces High and what make the game what it is. There can be 50 planes in a fight over a base (+ defending vehicles) and the complexity of these fights is just beyond anything any other game can replicate. HTC will improve the graphics, they have in the past and they will in the future. They are doing it right now. So I for one am not worried about that aspect, at all.
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Of course it is, but the mass engagements we see in Aces High (with actual people) is just not possible in these other games. It is the essence of Aces High and what make the game what it is. There can be 50 planes in a fight over a base (+ defending vehicles) and the complexity of these fights is just beyond anything any other game can replicate. HTC will improve the graphics, they have in the past and they will in the future. They are doing it right now. So I for one am not worried about that aspect, at all.
Isn't WoP suppose to feature an MMO style arena just like Aces High? It's going into open beta next week so we'll soon find out.
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Isn't WoP suppose to feature an MMO style arena just like Aces High? It's going into open beta next week so we'll soon find out.
I do not know about that, but really am not interested in a combat sim which does not have realism in terms of aircraft performance (including weaponry and ballistics), air combat and MMO gameplay as its core features. World of Warplanes seem to be more arcadeish in their approach and being the natural sceptic that I am, they will have to prove themselves before I am trying what they offer. I have seen and played a lot of sims throughout the years, since late 1980's and IBM XT 8086 machines, and online since 1998. Aces High is by far the best air combat simulation currently available to the public. It will take a lot from a newcomer to change that. I am of the opinion that HTC has experience and expertise in the genre which is difficult to match. They have found a niche market which is very small, and they know it. The general public is not interested in a difficult and challenging game, they want instant reward not a game you have to learn or even re-learn if you thought you knew something about air combat. A lot of people are intimidated if put in their proper place by a realistic sim, just look at all the whining going on even here in the "that wasn't fair" category.
So anyone who want to make big money on a large customer base, will have to satisfy them in ways which are not compatible with realistic simulation of WW2 air combat. War is not fair, if you set up a fair fight you are fundamentally wrong in your strategy. It is ruthless exploitation of your own strengths vs the weaknesses of the enemy, without mercy, and a lot of people have a problem with that even in a game. Usually you don't get much whining from dead people, their opinion is sortof nullified but in here they find themselves in a tower somewhere and somehow have this idea in their head that it wasn't their fault that they got shot down. Possibly it wasn't... war isn't fair after all, but to whine about it? This is a game... right? :headscratch:
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(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/679/ahss20.jpg)
(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/9678/ahss18.jpg)
(http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/1918/ahss16.jpg)
Today main arena
:bhead :bhead :bhead
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Maxing out the FX slider will destroy your FPS, it also does it on my machine. If you look at my benchmarks I have the slider all the way to the left. Do the same and I'm sure you'll be much happier with the results.
Yes, I noticed that it was all the way to the left in your images........ but to me the graphics are not truly maxed out if the FX slider is not being used or is all the way left
I would agree that my results would be much improved if I did not use the FX slider in my tests.....
<S>
TC
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Yes, I noticed that it was all the way to the left in your images........ but to me the graphics are not truly maxed out if the FX slider is not being used or is all the way left
I would agree that my results would be much improved if I did not use the FX slider in my tests.....
<S>
TC
To be honest I thought that option was either completely bugged or I didn't have enough video RAM to run it. I've tested the benchmark with the slider half way and the game still runs triple digits.
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I do not know about that, but really am not interested in a combat sim which does not have realism in terms of aircraft performance (including weaponry and ballistics), air combat and MMO gameplay as its core features. World of Warplanes seem to be more arcadeish in their approach and being the natural sceptic that I am, they will have to prove themselves before I am trying what they offer. I have seen and played a lot of sims throughout the years, since late 1980's and IBM XT 8086 machines, and online since 1998. Aces High is by far the best air combat simulation currently available to the public. It will take a lot from a newcomer to change that. I am of the opinion that HTC has experience and expertise in the genre which is difficult to match. They have found a niche market which is very small, and they know it. The general public is not interested in a difficult and challenging game, they want instant reward not a game you have to learn or even re-learn if you thought you knew something about air combat. A lot of people are intimidated if put in their proper place by a realistic sim, just look at all the whining going on even here in the "that wasn't fair" category.
So anyone who want to make big money on a large customer base, will have to satisfy them in ways which are not compatible with realistic simulation of WW2 air combat. War is not fair, if you set up a fair fight you are fundamentally wrong in your strategy. It is ruthless exploitation of your own strengths vs the weaknesses of the enemy, without mercy, and a lot of people have a problem with that even in a game. Usually you don't get much whining from dead people, their opinion is sortof nullified but in here they find themselves in a tower somewhere and somehow have this idea in their head that it wasn't their fault that they got shot down. Possibly it wasn't... war isn't fair after all, but to whine about it? This is a game... right? :headscratch:
I also want the most complex simulation. I played Aces High religiously for about 3 years and in total 6? There is not a single genre of gaming that comes even close to the feeling I got from playing AH. I find that even other titles of the genre don't come close to what AH offers in terms of physics and gameplay, the MMO style format is simply unbeatable.
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To be honest I thought that option was completely bugged or I didn't have enough video RAM to run it. I've tested the benchmark with the slider half way and the game still runs triple digits.
it very well may be buggy....... I could not say, and noone has offered up how the FX slider is suppose to work..... I would think that it worked similar to the way ones graphics sliders worked like having notches or whatever one calls them like x1 , x 2, x4, x 8 , x16 etc...... but not much info regarding the FX slider.....
it does take away or includes parts of the weather( clouds ), terrain, sun glare, etc...... but without any detailed information on setting it, everything is just a guess or just try and see .......
did you notice the vsync on / off option........ with vsync on, all a persons rates will plummet...... I do like the option of having the ability to play in a window verses full screen though.....
all of what I have said can be found out by loading the alpha benchmark, btw.....
you posted that it is going into open beta next week, I must have missed that........ haven't heard anything about it going open beta......
cheers
TC
-
So for you 2%. Now everyone knows who you are and it's obvious you have been Personaly unhappy with Hitech Creations for some time.
What are you accomplishing besides getting revenge in HTC's showroom and feeding your addiction to spreading your unhappiness? Is it your intention to convert as many of HTC's customers to WoP as you can to salve your hurt feelings? Or is it your intention to hold court as long and as loudly as you can telling HTC's customers how bad the Aces High product is?
So do you believe what you are doing will force HTC in fear for their customer base, or to repair their relationship with yourselves personaly, will tear this game apart and produce a game engine to satisfy your fantasies as a result of this?
Why do you personaly need this revenge? Common and answer. You have outed yourselves. Now cut out all of the sales pitch for WoP and tell your audience why you want revenge against Hitech Creations by selling WoP in the HTC showroom. Now if you are a paid employee of Gajin that's a different story and another kind of evil. But, I doubt you are paied employees so then why do you feel the need for revenge against HTC?
-
(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/679/ahss20.jpg)
(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/9678/ahss18.jpg)
(http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/1918/ahss16.jpg)
Today main arena
:bhead :bhead :bhead
LOL u have graphics as low as possable yet you complaining?
-
LOL u have graphics as low as possable yet you complaining?
He's only getting 37FPS in the first picture with his graphics turned all the way down. What kind of specs are you running in that system with such settings kazan? My set up is almost 6 years old in a quad core 2.6 with 6 gb of ram and running a 512 mb 9600gt card. I get a solid 59 FPS because my monitor is not able to push faster. Still only see 1 core doing any work in the display as I play the game. I'm not into the overclocking stuff. I'd rather have something that works within its design until I replace it for something better.
-
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 12/22/2011, 17:04:01
Machine name: TOMASZ-PC
Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_gdr.110622-1506)
Language: German (Regional Setting: German)
System Manufacturer: System manufacturer
System Model: System Product Name
BIOS: BIOS Date: 01/26/11 18:07:46 Ver: 08.00.14
Processor: AMD Phenom(tm) II X6 1055T Processor (6 CPUs), ~2.8GHz
Memory: 8GB RAM
Available OS Memory: 4096MB RAM
Page File: 1872MB used, 6316MB available
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
DxDiag Version: 6.01.7601.17514 32bit Unicode
------------
DxDiag Notes
------------
Display Tab 1: No problems found.
Sound Tab 1: No problems found.
Sound Tab 2: No problems found.
Input Tab: No problems found.
--------------------
DirectX Debug Levels
--------------------
Direct3D: 0/4 (retail)
DirectDraw: 0/4 (retail)
DirectInput: 0/5 (retail)
DirectMusic: 0/5 (retail)
DirectPlay: 0/9 (retail)
DirectSound: 0/5 (retail)
DirectShow: 0/6 (retail)
---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series
Manufacturer: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
Chip type: ATI display adapter (0x689E)
DAC type: Internal DAC(400MHz)
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_689E&SUBSYS_30701682&REV_00
Display Memory: 2806 MB
Dedicated Memory: 1014 MB
Shared Memory: 1791 MB
Current Mode: 1680 x 1050 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor Name: PnP-Monitor (Standard)
Monitor Model: VW225
Monitor Id: ACI22A0
Native Mode: 1680 x 1050(p) (59.954Hz)
Output Type: DVI
Driver Name: aticfx64.dll,aticfx64.dll,aticfx64.dll,aticfx32,aticfx32,aticfx32,atiumd64.dll,atidxx64.dll,atidxx64.dll,atiumdag,atidxx32,atidxx32,atiumdva,atiumd6a.cap,atitmm64.dll
Driver File Version: 8.17.0010.1107 (English)
Driver Version: 8.920.0.0
DDI Version: 11
Driver Model: WDDM 1.1
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 11/10/2011 04:15:20, 927232 bytes
WHQL Logo'd: Yes
WHQL Date Stamp:
Device Identifier: {D7B71EE2-2BDE-11CF-6171-7A10BEC2C535}
Vendor ID: 0x1002
Device ID: 0x689E
SubSys ID: 0x30701682
Revision ID: 0x0000
Driver Strong Name: oem11.inf:ATI.Mfg.NTamd64.6.1:ati2mtag_Evergreen:8.920.0.0:pci\ven_1002&dev_689e
Rank Of Driver: 00E62001[quote author=james link=topic=326732.msg4278421#msg4278421 date=1326
slideshow :cry
Optimize the game code!
Why do we bump mapping? It does not you can see in the game ... from a distance of 100 yards
-
I Pay and expecting a good product
-
LOL u have graphics as low as possable yet you complaining?
Maybe your parents bought you a newer setup, but some of us can't afford to upgrade.
-
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 12/22/2011, 17:04:01
Machine name: TOMASZ-PC
Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_gdr.110622-1506)
Language: German (Regional Setting: German)
System Manufacturer: System manufacturer
System Model: System Product Name
BIOS: BIOS Date: 01/26/11 18:07:46 Ver: 08.00.14
Processor: AMD Phenom(tm) II X6 1055T Processor (6 CPUs), ~2.8GHz
Memory: 8GB RAM
Available OS Memory: 4096MB RAM
Page File: 1872MB used, 6316MB available
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
DxDiag Version: 6.01.7601.17514 32bit Unicode
------------
DxDiag Notes
------------
Display Tab 1: No problems found.
Sound Tab 1: No problems found.
Sound Tab 2: No problems found.
Input Tab: No problems found.
--------------------
DirectX Debug Levels
--------------------
Direct3D: 0/4 (retail)
DirectDraw: 0/4 (retail)
DirectInput: 0/5 (retail)
DirectMusic: 0/5 (retail)
DirectPlay: 0/9 (retail)
DirectSound: 0/5 (retail)
DirectShow: 0/6 (retail)
---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series
Manufacturer: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
Chip type: ATI display adapter (0x689E)
DAC type: Internal DAC(400MHz)
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_689E&SUBSYS_30701682&REV_00
Display Memory: 2806 MB
Dedicated Memory: 1014 MB
Shared Memory: 1791 MB
Current Mode: 1680 x 1050 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor Name: PnP-Monitor (Standard)
Monitor Model: VW225
Monitor Id: ACI22A0
Native Mode: 1680 x 1050(p) (59.954Hz)
Output Type: DVI
Driver Name: aticfx64.dll,aticfx64.dll,aticfx64.dll,aticfx32,aticfx32,aticfx32,atiumd64.dll,atidxx64.dll,atidxx64.dll,atiumdag,atidxx32,atidxx32,atiumdva,atiumd6a.cap,atitmm64.dll
Driver File Version: 8.17.0010.1107 (English)
Driver Version: 8.920.0.0
DDI Version: 11
Driver Model: WDDM 1.1
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 11/10/2011 04:15:20, 927232 bytes
WHQL Logo'd: Yes
WHQL Date Stamp:
Device Identifier: {D7B71EE2-2BDE-11CF-6171-7A10BEC2C535}
Vendor ID: 0x1002
Device ID: 0x689E
SubSys ID: 0x30701682
Revision ID: 0x0000
Driver Strong Name: oem11.inf:ATI.Mfg.NTamd64.6.1:ati2mtag_Evergreen:8.920.0.0:pci\ven_1002&dev_689e
Rank Of Driver: 00E62001[quote author=james link=topic=326732.msg4278421#msg4278421 date=1326
slideshow :cry
Optimize the game code!
Why do we bump mapping? It does not you can see in the game ... from a distance of 100 yards
Just how old is your ATI Radeon HD 5800? I can't even find it for comparison on any of the hardware websites, that would explain your problem.
-
Just how old is your ATI Radeon HD 5800? I can't even find it for comparison on any of the hardware websites, that would explain your problem.
I think there is something wrong with his system. I have an Intel E7400 and an ATI HD5830 and I can run it almost maxed out (minus shadows) and see 60FPS almost all of the time. I know the AMD processor only runs on one core but I think something else is amiss here as well...
-
I think there is something wrong with his system. I have an Intel E7400 and an ATI HD5830 and I can run it almost maxed out (minus shadows) and see 60FPS almost all of the time. I know the AMD processor only runs on one core but I think something else is amiss here as well...
My laptop (far inferior to his setup) runs almost 20-80 frames given the same action he is in, however I don't know the settings he is using,
I am assuming something is critically an issue as well, perhaps his video drivers are garbage - I know mine for example, i had to get 5-6 different versions of forceware drivers to eventually land the right one that doesn't cause an issue.
I suggest he check out http://downloads.guru3d.com/
look up his video card, and pray its the right drivers.
-
Need to see what your wattage is for your power supply and might need to tweak or upgrade the graphics card. It's been too long since i've been into cards. 6 cores aren't great with an amd for this game. It still only takes advantage of one core. Your net status is wierd too. maybe because of coming from across the pong?
-
Kazan_HB, is that AMD's on-chip video solution? I seem to remember they were following Intel's lead and including it in some of their products. I suppose it might not work any better then Intel's.
If not an on-chip video solution, there's help to be found in the Technical Help or Hardware forums on this board, there's definitely something wrong if that's all the performance you can get from your rig.
It's screen shots like that, that I'd like to become a thing of the past!
-
Maybe your parents bought you a newer setup, but some of us can't afford to upgrade.
bought the new 6790 HIS video card with my own money bought the sound blasters card with my own money and the ram was a trade with one of my Friends because he needed DDR2 and had DDR3 and i needed DDR3. at first this computer was a sorta hand me down i upgraded it first to a 5670 HIS card and a new MB. then i upgraded to a new CPU and a 600 watt PSU. then i started playing this game with this computer. then i upgraded to where I'm at now. all with my own money that I make over the course of 2 years yes but I'm happy where I'm at.
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I Pay and expecting a good product
No one is forceing you to continue using this product if it does not meet your expectations. Unlike cellphone plans there is no forfiture of a bond if you choose to leave the contract. You are free to invest your time and money in another product.
Why do you need to remain here and seek revenge against HTC? The revenge part is a bit emotionly toxic for any healthy person.
Elaborate on what precisely sanctions you to commit revenge against HTC. I'm not sure this audience understands your motivation or even what you want to achive by it.
Give it a go. Who knows, at the least it will make a good story.
-
:noid :noid :noid :noid
No one is forceing you to continue using this product if it does not meet your expectations. Unlike cellphone plans there is no forfiture of a bond if you choose to leave the contract. You are free to invest your time and money in another product.
Why do you need to remain here and seek revenge against HTC? The revenge part is a bit emotionly toxic for any healthy person.
Elaborate on what precisely sanctions you to commit revenge against HTC. I'm not sure this audience understands your motivation or even what you want to achive by it.
Give it a go. Who knows, at the least it will make a good story.
-
The game is unplayable after the last update. With other games I have no problem.
The graphics look like game of 2000 year. I still useable framerate 30-16 with full detail. WTF?
then leave and quit your whining.
-
then leave and quit your whining.
You have nothing to decide, what I should do.
-
You have nothing to decide, what I should do.
Of course he does not. But if it's unplayable..why do you play? (serious question)
-
Of course, for my friends here. That was fun but not anymore. I like this game.
The problems must be solved.
I'm not alone http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,326972.0.html
-
Of course, for my friends here. That was fun but not anymore. I like this game.
The problems must be solved.
I'm not alone http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,326972.0.html
Really dude? I don't get it...if you don't like it it's really pretty simple, quit playing and leave the rest of us to enjoy the awesomness of this game. I would rather HTC focuses on content than to turn this game into another arcade flying "sim." just to appease your retina.
-
I Pay and expecting a good product
you computer illiterate idiot;
1. use high performance under windows power options
2. turn off Cool n Quiet in the BIOS
:o :o :o
-
Really dude? I don't get it...if you don't like it it's really pretty simple, quit playing and leave the rest of us to enjoy the awesomness of this game. I would rather HTC focuses on content than to turn this game into another arcade flying "sim." just to appease your retina.
You're dumber than I thought. All those who have any problem, they should leave the game?
-
You're dumber than I thought. All those who have any problem, they should leave the game?
No
I would like nothing more than to corrupt and turn more people into sheep loving, AH zealots. As would alot of others.
But the "I'll quit if it doesnt go my way" attitude doesn't really factor in. These people typically continue to play (believe it or not) but if they don't..thats ok to, I want the game to have a positive feeling.
Also very, VERY few products are successful by doing exactly as the customer wants. (Thats a standard marketing reference)
-
No
I would like nothing more than to corrupt and turn more people into sheep loving, AH zealots. As would alot of others.
But the "I'll quit if it doesnt go my way" attitude doesn't really factor in. These people typically continue to play (believe it or not) but if they don't..thats ok to, I want the game to have a positive feeling.
Also very, VERY few products are successful by doing exactly as the customer wants. (Thats a standard marketing reference)
This ^
-
The engine has not changed you said it yourself, "parts of the engine have been rebuilt" the thing is it is still the same engine. A new engine would be like going from Battlefield 2 to Battlefield 3. Completely different engine. AH is using the same core components and the same engine and just changing parts of it to suit their needs. It is the same.
Ahh to be so belligerent towards AH and yet you stay here and fly. Why is that?
You can go play the pretty game you know.
-
You can go play the pretty game you know.
If he can't run Aces High without any graphics, he won't be able to run much of anything else either.
There is something definitely wrong there, he should have no problems within Aces High with those specs.
-
If he can't run Aces High without any graphics, he won't be able to run much of anything else either.
There is something definitely wrong there, he should have no problems within Aces High with those specs.
If it's not the hardware, the issue is usually related to the operator of that hardware. ;)
-
This fits here too :devil
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/WoP.jpg)
-
This fits here too :devil
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/WoP.jpg)
People have left Warbirds. History can be repeated. What then? :)
-
People have left Warbirds. History can be repeated. What then? :)
Maybe because warbirds failed to update...
-
Warbirds had an update, but too late.
-
Warbirds I believe was also having other issues as well. I'm sure there will be some that go and some that play both. Saw 500 people in the MA this evening though. Hopefully we don't go back to 2 CAPPED arenas before long. Someone is doing something right somewhere and the other game is still being developed just as the update we are getting here is. Got something mean to say to HTC i'm sure he would hear you out in an email. If you don't like it here, vote with your wallet. I'm sure someone here could help you with the system you have to get you the FPS you might want. Things that are on the wishlist here don't happen over night.
-
Is good to see you back, 6Gun....... I noticed your inactive status has been removed out of your sig.
:cheers:
TC
-
well,
AH can do more than most would imagine
(http://www.loose-deuce.net/wp-content/Cimy_Header_Images/0/LD%20site%20temp%203.jpg)
first left is from an SEC i ran, and i changed the color setup to have a nice cold early morning sky, second at the left side is a typical november northsea setup, both to the right are standard main blue.
So why not change the colors and push the variuos different colors like we have in real weather?
-
So why not change the colors and push the variuos different colors like we have in real weather?
probably the same reason as the question
'why not have some desert/snow terrain maps (or indeed, ANY new maps at all) in the MA'
........
?
-
Rise of certainly is very pretty if you have a computer strong enough to run it...
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w220/Davis_Andrews/dawnpatrol.jpg)
good god that looks amazing. tighten the heck up HTC. $16 a month/$180 year deserves more eye candy for crying out loud. An for those who dont have the cpu to run it? We all go thru that stage in our lives where we cant afford the best cpu. However, those who really want a good cpu, eventually get one. So plz don't short change the ppl who invested in decent runnning pc's.
-
Is good to see you back, 6Gun....... I noticed your inactive status has been removed out of your sig.
:cheers:
TC
Thank you TC. Needed a little break and found i'm still too co-dependent on the game. I wish it looked better but will stay and see how things go. Will take another look this summer when my new pc is built. Simply not going to take this game as a sim anymore that's for sure hahaha.
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Some like myself and possibly the OP would say that they already do. In any case, the grass will always be greener on the other side of the fence.
If you recall, or read on their about page, HTC has always intended to stay a small intimate company.
Then why dont they charge a subscription rate to matches that statement. WoW for example, and i dont like to use this for an example; cost about the same price and they give you loads more of content. $5 a month sounds more like a company wanting to stay small. $15 a month is mega mainstream prices.
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Then why dont they charge a subscription rate to matches that statement. WoW for example, and i dont like to use this for an example; cost about the same price and they give you loads more of content. $5 a month sounds more like a company wanting to stay small. $15 a month is mega mainstream prices.
Why are you here..... ??
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Of course, for my friends here. That was fun but not anymore. I like this game.
The problems must be solved.
I'm not alone http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,326972.0.html
He appears to be having HARDWARE issues.
You too.
wrongway
-
Then why dont they charge a subscription rate to matches that statement. WoW for example, and i dont like to use this for an example; cost about the same price and they give you loads more of content. $5 a month sounds more like a company wanting to stay small. $15 a month is mega mainstream prices.
If HTC charged $5/month, the number of players would grow dramatically - i.e. exactly the opposite of trying to stay small.
Supply and demand: It's not just for economists anymore. Learn it and love it.
-
ppl who wont pay 15 bucks most likely wont pay 5 bucks. Granted after a 2 week freebie, a 5 buck rate would keep the costumer, longer.
-
ppl who wont pay 15 bucks most likely wont pay 5 bucks.
Then why charge $5 at all? What does that do for HTC except destroy their revenue?
-
Then why charge $5 at all? What does that do for HTC except destroy their revenue?
HT should make AH free then he'd have time to shine our boots, mow the lawn... etc. :rolleyes:
Then we could all follow suit and go to our jobs and tell them to keep the weekly paychecks, we'll just work for free.
Then go to the grocery store and tell them not to charge youas you work for free.................. and so on and so on.....
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HT should make AH free then he'd have time to shine our boots, mow the lawn... etc. :rolleyes:
Then we could all follow suit and go to our jobs and tell them to keep the weekly paychecks, we'll just work for free.
Then go to the grocery store and tell them not to charge youas you work for free.................. and so on and so on.....
There is a program like that... Insert all the posting rules here.
How much does HTC charge for the game, itself? I think WoW is fifty bucks for the basic program, and how many add ons can you get, at what price? HTC is charging a very fair price.
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I recently found an e-mail I had sent a little over ten years ago, during the time I had just begun to play AH. At that time I was playing only on H2H to learn some basics. I and my friend Kanttori didn't want to enter the Main Arena too fast in fear of being ridicule...
Now, back to the subject, on the e-mail I argumented, that for a fresh family man $ 14.90 a month was quite a big sum, especially when multiplied with the annual amount of months. For a saved $ 178.80 you could buy a lot of Christmas presents back then, even if changed to €'s. That kind of calculations kept me from opening an account for half a year. Today the price still remains the same, although the game has developed tremendously.
Novelty games, even remakes of an existing one, always have the advantage of starting from a clean board. Think about annual sports/rally/F1 games, for example. How much would it cost to buy a new game twice a year, updating your gaming rig accordingly, learning the physics and adjusting the settings and finally dumping it for a new one. It would be relatively easy to produce new eye candy with vague assumptions of future compatibility with existing hardware like many of them do, especially for the Christmas marketing. AH's strength is its longevity and HTC's solicitude of paying customers. I admit there are graphically more appealing flying sims and games, but as long as the landscapes don't prevent the adrenaline boost when I'm desperatively trying to turn into someone's six, the graphics are good enough. In the middle of the fight glaring at sceneries would be lethal...
A long time ago an elderly friend told me about having danced to gramophone records. The old 78's rasped and hissed, the spring driven turntable caused swaying and the reproducer gave a metallic sound, but no one noticed that. The human sound processor soon eliminated all distractions, leaving only the danceable music audible.