Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SHawk on September 27, 2012, 08:15:48 PM
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Found this on the "Phil DeFranco" show
Not sure if you've seen this but Holy Crap :O
Is this guy a hero or an idiot? <Not my words>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLHU-_OhT8g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLHU-_OhT8g)
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Idiot
Undeniably lucky though, not to get himself or any of his buddies hurt, the way he was acting
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Is the use of cover not taught nowadays? :headscratch: I know he says he went out in the open to draw enemy fire so his buddies could move to safety. I think he's actually a dumbarse who's played to much Call of Duty. Lucky lucky lucky.
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:confused: did the guy survive? :headscratch: how many times was he hit?
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The video says he survived. And needed no medical attention due to no rounds punching through his body armor.
But yeah, standing on the side of a hill while taking fire is not the best place to be. :bhead
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Is the use of cover not taught nowadays? :headscratch: I know he says he went out in the open to draw enemy fire so his buddies could move to safety. I think he's actually a dumbarse who's played to much Call of Duty. Lucky lucky lucky.
Agreed... I guess this guy wasn't trained to use suppressive fire to allow buddies to move to safety. :old:
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none of you guys were there. he didnt hide behind a rock and started crying or turn tail and ran the other way. he did what he thought was best and he lived. at least he didnt play a hero and shot a guy with one arm and one leg in the back of the head.
semp
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Idiot.
Head behind rock, make yourself as small as possible, and DON'T move.
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Ive been 'accidentally' shot at (I refuse to hunt with that individual ever again) and the sound of a 7mm mag rifle round going 10ft over your head is scary as hell. Enough to contemplate shooting back. I cant imagine people trying to kill me using automatic weapons on a hillside with basically zero cover in sight, no telling how you're going to handle that until it happens to you. I'm glad he did not get hurt but hes gonna need a change of britches. :uhoh
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I simply can not believe anyone calling this guy an idiot. What right do you have to make disparaging comments about a soldier who is showing courage under fire, and and advancing as rounds are literally kicking the dirt up by his feet?
Its disgraceful, because you may have a good k/d ratio on Call of Duty this does not qualify you to comment intelligently on a member of the armed forces in front line combat :bhead
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Yeah, it's kinda sad. But I guess we're desensitized what with the war being endless and all that. :devil
I'll respect the guy for puttin' his butt on the line for sure. Doesn't mean he did the right thing, but I've got no expertise and no knowledge of the situation other than what was presented so I'll refrain from judgement.
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none of you guys were there. he didnt hide behind a rock and started crying or turn tail and ran the other way. he did what he thought was best and he lived. at least he didnt play a hero and shot a guy with one arm and one leg in the back of the head.
semp
I was with ya til you beat the dead horse somemore (http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/1/11/Beating-a-dead-horse.gif)
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Don't they teach fireteam work any more?
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:confused: did the guy survive? :headscratch: how many times was he hit?
He was hit 4 times, when he dropped his rifle, it was actually shot out of his hand, and rendered his grenade launcher useless.
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ESAPI Plate Armor, level 3+, Multi Hit Rated..
2x plates (front and back) $260.00 on Ebay..
SecretCitySupply
Would ya rather have a $1000 dollar rifle??
Or, a $700 dollar rifle, and $300 dollar body armor????
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Remarkable footage. It's not often you actually see bullet strikes so close. He was a very lucky man indeed. Caught out in the open like that and alone. Extremely fortunate not to be actually wounded despite being hit several times. He used up all his luck that day.
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Idiot
Undeniably lucky though, not to get himself or any of his buddies hurt, the way he was acting
Maybe you should volunteer and go show them how its done. :rolleyes:
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Ok, I'm going to preface this post by saying if I'm wrong about it, I'm wrong.
However, having spent some time over there myself, I have a few observations.
I believe this video to be a FAKE.
My reasons are as follows.
1. Sound. Yes, the rifle/machine gun fire sounds authentic, however you do not ONCE hear any communication from other people in this guys unit. He yelled out dozens of times, and wasn't answered once. Having been in his situation on a few occasions, I can attest to the fact that there is so much verbal exchange that it can become a problem processing everything everyone else is saying all at once. Yet in this video, you hear nothing but silence in that department. Just this guy yelling out stupidly. Also, I've heard the reaction from when people are shot. They don't yell out in any way shape or form in the manner this idiot does. It just sounds too fake. In the last sequence going "uhhh" to yelling out "I'm hiiiiit" in the same virtual instant...sorry doesn't happen like that. I mean just listen to it and try not to laugh at this guy faking it.
2. This persons lack of skills. His magazine change and empty mag management were a joke at best, and no trained soldier I've ever seen would fumble about this badly. Also, something about the way he struck the magazine release to send his bolt forward just struck me as amateurish like an untrained range shooter or something like that as well. Also, as you can see when he dropped his weapon several times that he didn't have it secured to his body when there was a nice double loop sling just sitting right there. Nobody I've ever seen or worked with would leave cover to begin an ascent or descent without first ensuring his kit, primarily his WEAPON was attached to him first. Also, he set his weapon DOWN ON THE GROUND while performing a reload. This in of itself is beyond laughable. There are several other things which just scream amateur. Also, when using a hand to assist you in moving through obstacles or terrain, you NEVER use your primary weapon hand, you use your SUPPORT hand. That's why it's called a SUPPORT hand. This guy just does so many things wrong I can't begin to point them all out.
Also, his emergency reload as I said is a complete joke. He makes two distinct movements inserting his magazine, then "slappin er home" just like you see guys do at the aforementioned ol' shootin range is precisely how NOT to do a rapid magazine change. When you are under fire you show just a tad more intensity when executing these things than this moron does. Rolling his rifle to observe the chamber during a non-malfunction drill was also a complete waste of time and very VERY lacking in the economy of motion that most well trained persons will execute during a tactical or emergency reload.
3. Equipment in Video. The rifle this guy is using is just too.....clean Also, it is nearly black in color still. Ask Junky or Iraqvet, or anyone else who has been in the desert theaters, and they'll agree that NO rifle has ever been so "black" and clean before or since this video. Also, his "Oakley gloves" may look cool in video games and the like, but they are far too clean and white still to belong to any operator I've ever seen. Also, where is the AN/Paq 4 laser designator? Something that isn't very common on the ol' range M4, but an item that is attached to virtually every M4 you can find in the 4th Infantry Divisions pictures from Afghanistan.
4. Dust hits from incoming fire. These are way WAY to small to represent strikes from 7.62x39 or 7.62x54 fire, the typical Taliban ammunition. They in fact are strikes from a paintball gun shooting dust balls or something similar, I'll bet my fortune on it. Look at them again in the video yourselves, and take out your trusty rifle and shoot it into some dust like in this terrain, and you'll get the idea. Also, when the rounds supposedly come in and "strike and destroy his m203", it looks more like he half bellybutton flips/tosses his rifle away when he drops it, as opposed to having it blown out of hands. Watch it a few times and look really close at the rifle when the sound of the rounds striking is added in.
In closing, what we are seeing here I believe is a guy in a rock quarry in the good ol US of A and his buddy filming a few shots going out with another guy behind the camera shooting some dust balls into the ground, and then a sound edit on PC desktop software adding in some realistic battle sounds taken from other videos.
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Why's he wearing a helmet cam? Is that Army orders?
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Ok, I'm going to preface this post by saying if I'm wrong about it, I'm wrong.
However, having spent some time over there myself, I have a few observations.
I believe this video to be a FAKE.
My reasons are as follows.
1. Sound. Yes, the rifle/machine gun fire sounds authentic, however you do not ONCE hear any communication from other people in this guys unit. He yelled out dozens of times, and wasn't answered once. Having been in his situation on a few occasions, I can attest to the fact that there is so much verbal exchange that it can become a problem processing everything everyone else is saying all at once. Yet in this video, you hear nothing but silence in that department. Just this guy yelling out stupidly. Also, I've heard the reaction from when people are shot. They don't yell out in any way shape or form in the manner this idiot does. It just sounds too fake. In the last sequence going "uhhh" to yelling out "I'm hiiiiit" in the same virtual instant...sorry doesn't happen like that. I mean just listen to it and try not to laugh at this guy faking it.
2. This persons lack of skills. His magazine change and empty mag management was a joke at best, and no trained soldier I've ever seen would fumble about this badly. Also, something about the way he struck the magazine release to send his bolt forward just struck me as amateurish like an untrained range shooter or something like that as well. Also, as you can see when he dropped his weapon several times that he didn't have it secured to his body when there was a nice double loop sling just sitting right there. Nobody I've ever seen or worked with would leave cover to begin an ascent or descent without first ensuring his kit, primarily his WEAPON was attached to him first. Also, he set his weapon DOWN ON THE GROUND while performing a reload. This in of itself is beyond laughable. There are several other things which just scream amateur. Also, when using a hand to assist you in moving through obstacles or terrain, you NEVER use your primary weapon hand, you use your SUPPORT hand. That's why it's called a SUPPORT hand. This guy just does so many things wrong I can't begin to point them all out.
3. Equipment in Video. The rifle this guy is using is just too.....M4goery ish. I mean look at the rail system on it...el-cheapo, and with no bumper pads on the unused section of the rails, something not often seen on rifles in the military, however QUITE often seen on cheap bellybutton guys rifles at the ol' shootin range. Also, it is nearly black in color still. Ask Junky or Iraqvet, or anyone else who has been in the desert theaters, and they'll agree that NO rifle has ever been so "black" and clean before or since this video.
4. Dust hits from incoming fire. These are way WAY to small to represent strikes from 7.62x39 or 7.62x54 fire, the typical Taliban ammunition. They in fact are strikes from a paintball gun shooting dust balls or something similar, I'll bet my fortune on it. Look at them again in the video yourselves, and take out your trusty rifle and shoot it into some dust like in this terrain, and you'll get the idea.
In closing, what we are seeing here I believe is a guy in a rock quarry in the good ol US of A and his buddy filming a few shots going out with another guy behind the camera shooting some dust balls into the ground, and then a sound edit on PC desktop software adding in some realistic battle sounds taken from other videos.
Those dust hits can add in after production phase. It's possible to do even with freeware 3D stuff.
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Those dust hits can add in after production phase. It's possible to do even with freeware 3D stuff.
Hah, I didn't know that, but I have zero photoshop/3d software experience. However this guy did them, they're fake IMO.
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Hah, I didn't know that, but I have zero photoshop/3d software experience. However this guy did them, they're fake IMO.
I noticed the publish date, which doesn't have to mean the actual date the video was made, its Sept 26 2012.
In a couple of shots you get a quick glance at his shoulder patch which appears to be 4th Infantry Division.
I wonder if the 4th ID is over there right now?
[EDIT] I just checked a 4th ID website and they had Soldiers return from Afghanistan on 15 September, so your guess is a good as mine on the authenticity
of the video.
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Hah, I didn't know that, but I have zero photoshop/3d software experience. However this guy did them, they're fake IMO.
The 3D technique is called as a rotor-scoping, which is widely used in films these days.
Example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFv46XQUO34
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Very cool Xjazz. You learn something every day.
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You guys are gonna look awful silly if you are wrong.
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You guys are gonna look awful silly if you are wrong.
It swings both ways, you know. "I saw it in YT" don't mean really nothing in these days.
Even with modern days home PC you CAN re-produces a picture or even film to fit to your what ever agenda.
As a person with one PC, the rotor-scoping rendering will take a time to get it right, but if you have a render farm to make even a pixar jealous...
In some countries the digital photo or film is not valid evidence any more...
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It swings both ways, you know. "I saw it in YT" don't mean really nothing in these days.
Even with modern days home PC you CAN re-produces a picture or even film to fit to your what ever agenda.
As a person with one PC, the rotor-scoping rendering will take a time to get it right, but if you have a render farm to make even a pixar jealous...
In some countries the digital photo or film is not valid evidence any more...
I realise it swings bothe was thats why I put that "IF" out there.
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none of you guys were there. he didnt hide behind a rock and started crying or turn tail and ran the other way. he did what he thought was best and he lived. at least he didnt play a hero and shot a guy with one arm and one leg in the back of the head.
semp
No he did something stupid.
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Like I said in my first sentence, if I'm wrong I am. The dust impacts and however they were created are the smallest bit of evidence which points to BS. The guys kit, the sounds, the lack of skills, the lack of others communication...all the other stupid things..... I stand by my statements and the personal experience which allows me to make them. Granted the majority of the contact I came into was around vehicles and roads, not on hilly terrain as an Infantry soldier does as in this video, but as I stated earlier I've been doing this a long time and the behavior of people who are professionals and soldiers under fire remains a constant. This guy exhibits NONE of these behavior traits.
Also note that there is no information regarding who is in the video. No name, unit, date and time....
Then check out this guys funker360 Page.....doesn't exude loads of confidence to me that this one video is authentic compared to some of his others. He won't answer my questions regarding who and where this video was acquired from yet either.
Also, a few final points, this guy yells out "I'm hit, I'm hit" about 15 times in the last sequence on the video. Point 1: Nobody answers him...strange huh? Point 2: Although he's "hit", he can grab the sling of the rifle he "dropped" (snicker, flipped away from himself) and yank it back to himself, but he isn't OK enough to get up and move to better cover, or better yet, CHECK HIMSELF FOR WOUNDS. Yelling I'm hit over and over again, yet not saying where or showing any indication of checking the spot where he's been hit with either of his hands which show to be uninjured in the video? Come ON. Then the video description says he took "all 4 rounds in the armor".... Oooh this is getting better and better. Try and watch the video again without laughing, I can't.
For the gun guys on the board, did you notice the brand stamp on the right side of the receiver in dull white letters when he does his thirty second reload? This is the one bit of physical evidence that proves me right beyond any shadow of a doubt. The US military sources its M4 rifles from only certain manufacturers. This isn't one of them.
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No he did something stupid.
i think gman is right that is a fake video.
semp
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i think gman is right that is a fake video.
semp
Yup
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Let me be clear. This guy is an idiot for posting this on YouTube....
This guy is an idiot for how he reacted under fire. He is a little girl for crying like one.
My mind on the matter doesn't change with semp's point because a firefight is a firefight.
Suppression is the biggest part of a fight, then you move when you have them pinned down.
If you are suppressed you pop smoke, break contact and bring in the steel rain.
This guy acted like a gun hoe butter bar who put more lives in danger with his foolish actions.
He brings bad credit to the US Army Infantry, something I take pride in being apart of.
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My fat butt would have been rolling down that hill screaming like a girl.
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Video is a fake
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Like I said in my first sentence, if I'm wrong I am. The dust impacts and however they were created are the smallest bit of evidence which points to BS. The guys kit, the sounds, the lack of skills, the lack of others communication...all the other stupid things..... I stand by my statements and the personal experience which allows me to make them. Granted the majority of the contact I came into was around vehicles and roads, not on hilly terrain as an Infantry soldier does as in this video, but as I stated earlier I've been doing this a long time and the behavior of people who are professionals and soldiers under fire remains a constant. This guy exhibits NONE of these behavior traits.
Also note that there is no information regarding who is in the video. No name, unit, date and time....
Then check out this guys funker360 Page.....doesn't exude loads of confidence to me that this one video is authentic compared to some of his others. He won't answer my questions regarding who and where this video was acquired from yet either.
Also, a few final points, this guy yells out "I'm hit, I'm hit" about 15 times in the last sequence on the video. Point 1: Nobody answers him...strange huh? Point 2: Although he's "hit", he can grab the sling of the rifle he "dropped" (snicker, flipped away from himself) and yank it back to himself, but he isn't OK enough to get up and move to better cover, or better yet, CHECK HIMSELF FOR WOUNDS. Yelling I'm hit over and over again, yet not saying where or showing any indication of checking the spot where he's been hit with either of his hands which show to be uninjured in the video? Come ON. Then the video description says he took "all 4 rounds in the armor".... Oooh this is getting better and better. Try and watch the video again without laughing, I can't.
For the gun guys on the board, did you notice the brand stamp on the right side of the receiver in dull white letters when he does his thirty second reload? This is the one bit of physical evidence that proves me right beyond any shadow of a doubt. The US military sources its M4 rifles from only certain manufacturers. This isn't one of them.
Fake? Are the rounds hitting the rocks in front of him fake? There's lots of shooting going on, who is doing the shooting? Colt builds all of the M4 carbines. Sole source. FN is the current contract holder for M16s. Units sometimes add identification markings. If he's at extreme range, a 7.62x39 round will not penetrate the body armor. I'm not saying this is not a staged video, just that I don't see enough evidence to draw that conclusion.
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Lol at the people calling this fake. Put your tinfoil hats on.
Oh and you know why the funker360 page isn't answering you? Because that isn't THE soldier. That's a website that takes videos posted by military personnel and then uploads them. Go check out their FB page. Good lord.
Even in the video description it says "From the cameraman"
"No rounds penetrated his body armor, and he made it home with no permanent injuries. This happened in Kunar Province, Afghanistan.
*READ* From the cameraman:
" I got a hit a total of 4 times. My helmet cam died and i made it down the mountain on my own. I was also hit in the side of my helmet and my eye pro was shot off of my face. We were doing overwatch on the village to recon and gather intel. I was point heading down the face of the hill with the LT. when we got hit. the rest of the squad was pinned down by machine gun fire. I didn't start the video until a few mins into the firefight for obvious reasons. I came out into the open to draw fire so my squad could get to safety."
"A round struck the tube by my hand of the 203 grenade launcher which knocked it out of my hands. When I picked the rifle back up it was still functional but the grenade launcher tube had a nice sized 7.62 cal bullet hole in it and was rendered useless. "
This footage is part of an ongoing documentation of the war in Afghanistan. Subscribe for more footage uploaded daily."
Not even worth an argument. Think it's fake? You can check out their page, ask who sent it and they'll talk to the uploader and get their permission to give you their information.
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Wtf :headscratch:
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To answer Widewing: Yes units may add stuff to their receivers. However in this case the markings are of a particular brand. I'll let you figure that part out on your own. And yes, as I said, it isn't Colts manufacturing or Diemaco, which is here in Canada and made units that were purchased by the US military prior to being acquired by Colts. Also don't forget HK which has built thousands for the US Military in 4.16 and other variants. One of my former team mates Kevin Boland also is the military sales rep and Knights Armament, and I do believe they've sold a few as well. Again, this rifle in the video isn't from ANY of them.
If he's at extreme range, a 7.62x39 round will not penetrate the body armor
Not sure what this has to do with what I've been saying proves this is fake, I realize this, and never said the armor can't stop the incoming rounds, and in fact I can attest to the fact that ParaClete armor will stop x39 rounds at any range, not just long, and it is similar to the plates the US Army uses. My point is that the rounds aren't there period. The impacts appear to be WAY TO small for rounds coming in at any reasonable range especially the rounds that are impacting in front of him when he's just laying on the ground yelling "I'm hit". Look at them yourself, then take your G3 out and put some rounds into the dirt a couple or few hundred yards away, or better yet have another shooter do it and observe the impacts. And again, where are his teamates sounding off. If he's bothering to call out that he is moving down the hill, why is there no response from the dozens of other things he calls out to them, and not a single call out from them to him about ANYTHING, or even calls out between other team mates. The reason why is that they aren't there, as he isn't part of a squad or platoon. Look at 1.33 for example, that round hit is laughable if you think it came from anything large caliber.
There's lots of shooting going on, who is doing the shooting?
That's my point, there ISN'T ANY, at least not from enemy fire from the Taliban. The sound as I said in the first post has been added in with some fancy desktop work. In fact, watch the video and closely listen to the sound. There are many spots where the incoming rounds don't match up with the sound, or there is a multi shot burst and a single fake dust impact pops up with it. IF there is any shooting going on, it's with an accomplice from behind out of the camera viewpoint, and with a small caliber like a .22 or a dustball paintball gun.
Another thing I'd like to point out is the kit this guy is using to hold his magazines. At 0.25 in the video you can see him swaping (poorly) his magazines with it during his terrible reload drill. You can also see it hanging down, on a lame around the neck sling, not attached to any carrier system, at 1.54 in the video when he is flopping around trying to climb back up the hill. Notice the fact that it is a 3 or 4 magazine welfare pouch in drab green....what did he forget his issued chest rig this particular day? I know, the LT who he mentioned must have taken it back up the hill to the rest of the guys to give him some extra support with his ammo.
To answer Marine: Yes, I realize that Funker isn't the guy in the video, do you think I'm retarded or something? Try reading what I wrote more closely. All I said is that he hasn't responded to my email or Facebook PM regarding the questions I asked him about the video's origins. He's answered questions of mine before on Facebook with some rapidity, and I think he's doing checking of his own after looking at the points I made and sent him, so I believe this answers your points. I said compared to his other videos which he puts up, this one is VERY suspect. Why do you think the name of the soldier isn't mentioned anywhere around this video? If it was you in the vid, don't you think you would chime in and have your name put up with it, or at least somebody by this point would have commented that "oh hey, that's so and so from the operation here on that day, remember when he got hit 4 times and was OK?". Starting to see a pattern perhaps??!! Als
Also, this guys BS testament to the video makes no sense whatsoever. "I was moving on point WITH THE LT down the hill when we were hit?" OK, you think maybe the LT may have had something to say to him or the ENTIRE REST OF HIS UNIT under fire perhaps? Yet not a single thing said through the entire video? Oh I know, the LT was down right! Or he ran back and abandoned this hero to save the day by drawing fire! Or maybe this guy acted on his own initiative to save his team from incoming fire, yet nobody bothered to stay in contact with him or answer his calls of distress, or call out "where is so and so"...maybe the LT forgot he was with him! COME ON. Oh ya, and THEN you decided to switch your camera on, after you and the LT were in contact, and you under fire....it just gets more and more unbelievable.
So you ask do I think it is fake? No, I KNOW it is fake. In fact, the one thing you point out to me is the quote he gives about the 203 being struck. LOOK AT THE VIDEO. Watch him flip the rifle away from himself on to the ground when it apparently is "hit". There is so much BS in this video I don't know how anyone with any time in the service can even believe it.
Don't worry BTW Junky, this guy can't bring shame on to your, your unit, or YOUR ARMY because he isn't in and hasn't been in any of them. A guy that's been shot 4 times in one engagement, including survivable hits to his body armor AND HEAD, would be something of a legend in his unit, and the luckiest SOB in the country. There is no way his identity would be hidden.
BTW Marine, it isn't TIN FOIL hat time, look back in this BBS and try and find one post I've made regarding anything tin foil hatish, I dare you. The reason I'm outing this is that I've lost friends, including my best friend in Afghanistan, and seen many other friends lives wrecked and ruined after participating in what this guy thinks is funny to emulate for UTube fame, and it pisses me right the fck off. Any of you who believe I'm wrong, that's fine, you can have any opinion that you want, and I'll accept your apologies as quickly as I'll offer mine if I was wrong. In fact, if the guy in the video's ID comes out and he claims to be the one in the video with details and proof, or any of you can find it and verify it, I'll personally fly to his location, apologize for this BBS post in a Utube video with him, and offer him a job if he's out of the service anytime soon and train him how to behave properly in contact with the enemy.
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Reviewing the video, I see what appears to be an MRAP down on the road...
Spent rounds don't move much dust... I know, I've done a fair amount of shooting at 800 to 1,000 yards. Been hit by a spent round (ricochet) too. The mangled jacket cut through two layers of clothing, my flesh and badly bruised a rib. Hurt quite a bit.
I can't determine the maker of the M4 in use for certain, but I don't know any owner of AR type rifle who would throw their's onto rocks... I say that because you seem to be saying that the weapon was not issue...
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wow... retard
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BTW Marine, it isn't TIN FOIL hat time, look back in this BBS and try and find one post I've made regarding anything tin foil hatish, I dare you.
The reason I'm outing this is that I've lost friends, including my best friend in Afghanistan, and seen many other friends lives wrecked and ruined after participating in what this guy thinks is funny to emulate for UTube fame, and it pisses me right the fck off. Any of you who believe I'm wrong, that's fine, you can have any opinion that you want, and I'll accept your apologies as quickly as I'll offer mine if I was wrong.
In fact, if the guy in the video's ID comes out and he claims to be the one in the video with details and proof, or any of you can find it and verify it, I'll personally fly to his location, apologize for this BBS post in a Utube video with him, and offer him a job if he's out of the service anytime soon and train him how to behave properly in contact with the enemy.
So, because you have NEVER said anything that involed :noid before means that anything you say ever will be truthful and free of paranoia? :rolleyes:
You're not the only person who has lost friends over there. I've been there myself and lost more than just a single friend. Anyone who has been over there and been in a firefight has lost a little of something. Just because you've had friends get killed doesn't give you the right to refuse the idea that something like this is real just because it doesn't fit YOUR idea of how it's SUPPOSED to be over there when you've never set foot in that POS place.
And that....that just makes me want to locate this guy myself.
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I spent nearly two years there over the course of four years total BTW Marine. And yes, I believe that past behavior is a good way to measure future behavior, which is why I challenged you to find something I've said previously that's "out there" with the tin foil hat crowd. You don't agree with my points regarding the video, fine, but don't resort to some blanket statement without knowing me. Sort of like your last sentence of stating it is "someplace I've never been". I can just as easily say the same thing about you, but notice that I DON'T, as I don't assume anything about anyone without seeing their behavior or reading what they write. As for me not having the "right" to comment on the authenticity of this video, we'll have to agree to disagree. Using my personal experience from similar situations and careful examination of the so called soldier in the videos behavior is what led me to believe and post regarding the fact that I believe it to be fraudulent. Simple enough, without resorting to juvenile insults, yes? I assume Marine you were there with the Corps? We likely know some of the same people, as both of the PMC's I've worked for have hired many Marines, and one of my good friends Sgt. Brent Clearman worked side by side with me for a year before he was killed after deciding to take a "safer" job with the CHP. He was a Scout Sniper and also ran the Mountain warfare high angle shooting course, as well as working as an instructor at the Sniper School among other things prior to coming to work with us. So I give you respect for your service, and gladly listen to your point of view without acting like I'm ten. It shouldn't be unreasonable to expect the same in return.
Also, watch the vehicle in the video closely. It's sitting still at the start of the shooting, right in the middle of the threat axis, then moves forward about ten feet, and stops again and sits motionless for the duration of the time it is viewable in the video. Somewhat strange behavior while being under fire, no? I know when I was behind the wheel of vehicles during contact, I used this incredible tactic called MOVEMENT to escape the enemy fire and get off of the "X" of the enemy ambush or assault. Not rolling 10 feet at 2 mph then stopping again.
I'll leave the investigating to the pros, and when I get the answer I'll give it.
In the meantime, if anyone wants to challenge my following points, please do so with your reasons and explanations.
1. The lack of any other voices being heard in the video.
2. The equipment, particularly the civilian surplus magazine carrier being slung around his neck, and the non-use of his sling at any point. The missing An/Paq 4 laser designator. Civilian manufacturers markings on the right hand side of the receiver. Also, why the lack of M203 rounds being fired? Kinda hard to get a hold of outside of a military unit in a Combat Deployment, or Training, which explains why he isn't firing any in the video.
3. Horrible skills demonstrated, from setting down his rifle to reload it, the terrible magazine management, even worse tactical reload.
4. The flipping of his rifle obviously out of his hands, as if faking it being impacted, the fact that he not once checked himself for wounds or felt to see where he had been hit with his hands....not once, watch his hands.
EDIT! Gee what a shocking surprise! Over at lightfighter (It takes time to get approval to the forums as they mainly accept only Soldiers etc.) the video has been already proven to have been made at an area in the rear of Fort Carson, by somebody goofing around, NOT in Afghanistan. The buildings and roads matched up perfectly from pictures to the video apparently. More to follow shortly.
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I'm now in a unit which just came from the Kunar Province...they think they recognize the place. Just sayin what they said.
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Another Afghan vet thinks this is a staged video...
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2001282/pg1 (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2001282/pg1)
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I wish I could link in some of the things being said at Lightfighter.com, but I don't want to lose my privileges there. I always set store to the fact that the truth eventually comes out, and I believe that today (the 29th) will be the day of reckoning for whoever shopped this video is staged, fake, fraudulent...whatever anyone wants to call it. Now that all the major networks have given it coverage, there will be hell to pay for some poor shmuck. I only hope that it isn't a case of somebody getting a hold of a prank video and then sending it without the permission of the creator, or damage will be done to the wrong person. Somebody made some decent money on Utube with the millions of hits/pageviews/etc, and they did it at the expense IMO of the guys who actually HAVE been in crappy situations like the video tried to emulate. I know from a very reputable source on another bbs that one major news source is digging into this story regarding the validity and authenticity of this video. Like I said, it'll come out, and sooner than later.
Either way, somebody should answer for it as this video has been up on the PTSD sites etc as a tool of sorts for them (don't shoot he messenger, I'm just copying what they say on the boards linked in from the original video poster Funker). It isn't just the site you've linked in Widewing, there are TONS with guys in the service calling BS for most of the same reasons I said before this video went as wide as it has. Huffingtonpost has some funny ones if you want some laughs. Light fighter is THE site for soldiers and armed professionals though and it has by far the best posts from guys like Junky who have been there recently and others who are there right now. Again, it is a shame I can't link them here, or even risk copy/paste as they have no sense of humor about such things over there. The mods there make Skuzzy on an angry day look like a substitute teacher, believe me.
Anyhow, I stand by all of my earlier statements, and if by some small chance this video turns out to be real, I'll apologize for being wrong and such. As always Widewing, i appreciate your posts and they way you put arguments forward etc, a class act as always, and somebody that others, including myself perhaps at times, should try to emulate on this bbs.
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Honestly, I didn't watch the vid..
Never watch the vids of our guys under fire..
For my own reasons, I cant, just hurts too much..
But, If this is faked, :furious :furious :furious
I hope someone thrashes him with his own weapon..
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after watching several times, I tend to agree that it is fake, for all the reasons I read, but never once did I hear a bullet. I know I have never been in combat and had bullets shot AT me, but I have been at some long rifle ranges where you sit in a "pit" and the bullets go over your head, you can hear them, and I would imagine that you would hear the occasional ricochet. The sound in the pits is the bullets sonic crack, or so I have been told, but whenever I was working in the pits you could here a zzzzzzz as the bullet went over your head. I have spent quite a bit of time at these ranges at 1000 yards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXihrlYRlWY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyhgC4wF7MU
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I wish I could link in some of the things being said at Lightfighter.com, but I don't want to lose my privileges there. I always set store to the fact that the truth eventually comes out, and I believe that today (the 29th) will be the day of reckoning for whoever shopped this video is staged, fake, fraudulent...whatever anyone wants to call it. Now that all the major networks have given it coverage, there will be hell to pay for some poor shmuck. I only hope that it isn't a case of somebody getting a hold of a prank video and then sending it without the permission of the creator, or damage will be done to the wrong person. Somebody made some decent money on Utube with the millions of hits/pageviews/etc, and they did it at the expense IMO of the guys who actually HAVE been in crappy situations like the video tried to emulate. I know from a very reputable source on another bbs that one major news source is digging into this story regarding the validity and authenticity of this video. Like I said, it'll come out, and sooner than later.
Either way, somebody should answer for it as this video has been up on the PTSD sites etc as a tool of sorts for them (don't shoot he messenger, I'm just copying what they say on the boards linked in from the original video poster Funker). It isn't just the site you've linked in Widewing, there are TONS with guys in the service calling BS for most of the same reasons I said before this video went as wide as it has. Huffingtonpost has some funny ones if you want some laughs. Light fighter is THE site for soldiers and armed professionals though and it has by far the best posts from guys like Junky who have been there recently and others who are there right now. Again, it is a shame I can't link them here, or even risk copy/paste as they have no sense of humor about such things over there. The mods there make Skuzzy on an angry day look like a substitute teacher, believe me.
Anyhow, I stand by all of my earlier statements, and if by some small chance this video turns out to be real, I'll apologize for being wrong and such. As always Widewing, i appreciate your posts and they way you put arguments forward etc, a class act as always, and somebody that others, including myself perhaps at times, should try to emulate on this bbs.
I try to be objective. I do try to keep debates civil, although I can have my moments...
Relative to this video, I haven't been to Afghanistan. I am no longer familiar with the current kit the average soldier carries. Therefore, I keep an open mind to things like this, weighing both arguments and not coming to any conclusions until the evidence is overwhelming... I'm an Engineer and that's how I approach things where the reported facts and reality may conflict.
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I watched the video yesterday on another website. I had some of the same questions I have seen here. One thing that really got my attention is that I heard the sounds of incoming shots before impact. Even in the case of mid range incoming fire, the impact should arrive before the sound of the gunshot that launched it. There should have been impacts and a second or two later the sound of the burst of fire that sent them.
I agree that there was a lot of silence on the part of that guys unit. There was a dearth of return fire too. Folks under fire are not the quiet types. They tend to be rather vocal and US troops are not going to sit and wait for an obvious target to show when under fire. You return fire and then try to spot the bad guys while they are suppressed, not the other way around.
I don't know if the vid is fake or not but it doesn't pass the smell test to me at this point.
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I still think it is fake from what I have seen and been reading but I have watched the footage several more times.
I'm very interested in any further info that may emerge.
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As a former grunt, if this is real this guy shows no Infantry (at least Army) training whatsoever.
Maybe he's not an Infantryman? I can tell you this, trained or not, his actions are stupid for being
under fire. I'm leaning more towards BS.
:cheers: Oz
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Found this on the "Phil DeFranco" show
Not sure if you've seen this but Holy Crap :O
Is this guy a hero or an idiot? <Not my words>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLHU-_OhT8g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLHU-_OhT8g)
The video is fake.
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One thing that I did miss in my original analysis of the video is the road the vehicle is on. It's PAVED!? I've yet to see any paved roads in tiny villages in Afghanistan, especially in Kunar province apparently (I've never been in Kunar, but the guys on LightFighter, and I'm sure anyone here will attest to this). From what I've read on Light Fighter is that this is an area used for training NATO and US troops, and some handsomehunk made his video there. Reports vary on if it is some sillyvillian or just some guy from a POG unit, but time will tell either way. Nobody has come forward yet to claim they are the guy in the video, which in of itself is sort of strange with the hundreds of millions of views it is getting having gone "viral".
Also, another guy at LightFighter has made the point that NONE of the sounds are from Soviet Block weapons, and after listening closely dozens of times, I believe he is right. You can hear what I believe to be a lot of M240G fire, some M4/SAW fire, but no AK, no RPD, no PK sounds. A guy from LightFighter posted up some good video examples of the differing sounds of NATO weapons to Soviet block from various videos from Afghanistan. It makes it very easy for anyone without experience with either of the types of weapons to distinguish the difference in sound, fire rates, etc. This coupled with the fact that the sounds themselves are suspect in terms of matching up with the incoming rounds, something I've said from post.....BS flag on the field, AGAIN.
Just more evidence to pile on the stack that I already put down. I don't understand how ANYONE can still possibly believe this video to be authentic, combat experience or not.
The most damning thing is that the guy who put up the video originally has gone "comms dark". He hasn't posted a single response to the hundreds of messages myself and many others have sent him on Twitter, email, and PM on Facebook about the authenticity of this video, and the name of the soldier who made it. A little strange with a super-viral video that's sizzling around the web. Strange unless you have something to hide that is. I think he got suckered like so many others out there, as he has a lot of good videos on his site, but doesn't know what to do in terms of a retraction now that MSNBC and the like have gushed over it (lol). Also, notice that he promises "more footage from this guy tomorrow" on his site when asking people to subscribe, yet low and behold...no more footage today! I wonder what could have happened?! (sarcasm).
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I wont dawdle. I never served. Nam finished up just before I graduated. I have the utmost respect and gratitude to all of you who served and all others in the wild who served. When I see something questionable, like this video, I almost hate to say I doubt what I see and hear. I do not want anyone to have any doubts that I truely respect their service to our country. If anyone deserves the freedoms we have it is certainly those who fought for them.
I had doubts about this vid. Reading your doubts and discussions, based on your experiences, only strengthens my resolve to thank every individual who has put it on the line for us.
Please keep up the gentlemanly discussion and post the information you find avalable so that we may, in the end, find this video truthful or not.
In the end if it is real..... I'm glad the gentlmen was not physically harmed. If it is fake, it is not embarrassment to our armed forces.
I still feel it is not realistic but I bow to yalls first hand knowledge as to what and how things happen over there.
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well the truth about that video is that it's making a lot of money to the guy that posted due to ads. now i understand why lots of people will copy videos and post them as their own. they get paid for the ads and they will keep doing it unless they get caught.
semp
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Not Fort Carson. I live next to the post. I have driven all over that base for work and those hills are not on that post. Maybe Pinon Canyon I'll have to check the maps. Most of the hills on Fort Carson have reddish colored rock. Some on the east side are lighter grays but NONE are that high.
Not Pinon Canyon either.
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one would think that if friendlies were near him that you would be able to hear their return fire much better than the distance rounds?
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It is Real. Just understand that in battle some man brake down, he didnt know what he was doing.
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Am I the only one seeing the enemy rounds impact near him? Or hear the sounds of the impacts?
I do not think this is fake.
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Never been to war but the sounds remind me off training ammo being fired off, bangs but no supersonic crack. And the dirt hits are about the same size I see from .22lr when hunting bunnies, my .243 splashes a lot more than that when it hits dirt.
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Unlike many of you guys I watch every single video from the people who post it. Which is Funker530, they show helmet cam footage from Afghanistan and now sometimes Syria. I watched this video like 20 minutes after it was posted, and I can tell you it had a lot of really nice comments on the video before it went total viral. Then all the anti-american's started setting in on the video telling people lies of it's fake and what not.
Before you guys go saying there lies and cheats the people who post this go back and look at what they actually do. The people who post the video talk to soldiers and are supporters of wounded warrior foundation. Along with most of the people who run it are former military. Now the reason I can say this isn't fake because they pretty much post daily footage of combat footage that has TOW missiles, J-DAM bombs, FLIR footage from AH-64 Apaches. Now unless they like spending millions of dollars to make all that other fake footage that only makes 200,000 views on youtube. To only be fake and make less money than they spent, then please tell me another reason why this is fake.
Obviously I've never been in war, the thing is not only is the guy getting hated on for being an American soldier. He's also being hated on for the way he reacts when he's getting shot at from multiple enemy's, all alone all by himself. Come on there is no need to tell the guy how to fight when I think he learned his lesson from getting shot 4 times.
http://www.youtube.com/user/FUNKER530 (http://www.youtube.com/user/FUNKER530)
Just in case you guys didn't read the description of the video
No rounds penetrated his body armor, and he made it home with no permanent injuries. This happened in Kunar Province, Afghanistan.
*READ* From the cameraman:
" I got a hit a total of 4 times. My helmet cam died and i made it down the mountain on my own. I was also hit in the side of my helmet and my eye pro was shot off of my face. We were doing overwatch on the village to recon and gather intel. I was point heading down the face of the hill with the LT. when we got hit. the rest of the squad was pinned down by machine gun fire. I didn't start the video until a few mins into the firefight for obvious reasons. I came out into the open to draw fire so my squad could get to safety."
"A round struck the tube by my hand of the 203 grenade launcher which knocked it out of my hands. When I picked the rifle back up it was still functional but the grenade launcher tube had a nice sized 7.62 cal bullet hole in it and was rendered useless. "
This footage is part of an ongoing documentation of the war in Afghanistan. Subscribe for more footage uploaded daily.
http://funker530.prochan.com/ (http://funker530.prochan.com/)
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You are experiencing a logic fail. No one is doubting the validity of all the videos posted. Some are doubting the validity of this video.
As a former infantryman, I find some pieces of the story questionable. Whether the video is in fact genuine is not something I can definitively say. At best he displayed extremely poor skill and judgement in a bad situation and is lucky to be alive. At worst, it was a staged event which has successfully gone viral.
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Oh hell. Went down A mountain with hardly any cover got shot 4 times and got his grenade launcher screwed up. He's lucky the grenade launcher didn't go off. Geez.
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Oh hell. Went down A mountain with hardly any cover got shot 4 times and got his grenade launcher screwed up. He's lucky the grenade launcher didn't go off. Geez.
The M203 more than likely wasn't loaded at the time.
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Is the use of cover not taught nowadays? :headscratch: I know he says he went out in the open to draw enemy fire so his buddies could move to safety. I think he's actually a dumbarse who's played to much Call of Duty. Lucky lucky lucky.
Whatever happened to shoot, move communicate?
I would hate to think that someone faked this but I know it happens.
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Unlike many of you guys I watch every single video from the people who post it. Which is Funker530, they show helmet cam footage from Afghanistan and now sometimes Syria. I watched this video like 20 minutes after it was posted, and I can tell you it had a lot of really nice comments on the video before it went total viral. Then all the anti-american's started setting in on the video telling people lies of it's fake and what not.
Before you guys go saying there lies and cheats the people who post this go back and look at what they actually do. The people who post the video talk to soldiers and are supporters of wounded warrior foundation. Along with most of the people who run it are former military. Now the reason I can say this isn't fake because they pretty much post daily footage of combat footage that has TOW missiles, J-DAM bombs, FLIR footage from AH-64 Apaches. Now unless they like spending millions of dollars to make all that other fake footage that only makes 200,000 views on youtube. To only be fake and make less money than they spent, then please tell me another reason why this is fake.
Obviously I've never been in war, the thing is not only is the guy getting hated on for being an American soldier. He's also being hated on for the way he reacts when he's getting shot at from multiple enemy's, all alone all by himself. Come on there is no need to tell the guy how to fight when I think he learned his lesson from getting shot 4 times.
http://www.youtube.com/user/FUNKER530 (http://www.youtube.com/user/FUNKER530)
Just in case you guys didn't read the description of the video
No rounds penetrated his body armor, and he made it home with no permanent injuries. This happened in Kunar Province, Afghanistan.
*READ* From the cameraman:
" I got a hit a total of 4 times. My helmet cam died and i made it down the mountain on my own. I was also hit in the side of my helmet and my eye pro was shot off of my face. We were doing overwatch on the village to recon and gather intel. I was point heading down the face of the hill with the LT. when we got hit. the rest of the squad was pinned down by machine gun fire. I didn't start the video until a few mins into the firefight for obvious reasons. I came out into the open to draw fire so my squad could get to safety."
"A round struck the tube by my hand of the 203 grenade launcher which knocked it out of my hands. When I picked the rifle back up it was still functional but the grenade launcher tube had a nice sized 7.62 cal bullet hole in it and was rendered useless. "
This footage is part of an ongoing documentation of the war in Afghanistan. Subscribe for more footage uploaded daily.
http://funker530.prochan.com/ (http://funker530.prochan.com/)
I'm so American I even make you look communist.
I did not read any of the comments on youtube. I only read the description. At first I was going by what I see and hear in this video. Note I said this video as I am not referring to any other video posted.
There are comments here detailing why others doubt the legitimacy of this video from folks who have been over there.
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.
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Am I the only one seeing the enemy rounds impact near him? Or hear the sounds of the impacts?
I do not think this is fake.
They are saying they were placed in the video by editing software. Looks pretty damn real to me.
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They are saying they were placed in the video by editing software. Looks pretty damn real to me.
No, what I said was that the sounds had possibly been edited by desktop software. I said that the dust from the rounds impacting were too small, as Vulcan just pointed out again, and that they were either made with something like a small caliber rifle or a dustball gun as used by hollywood special effects guys, being fired by an accomplice behind the field of view of the camera. Watch the video closely, and observe some of the strikes in the dirt, and notice the direction that the dust flies.
Unlike many of you guys I watch every single video from the people who post it. Which is Funker530, they show helmet cam footage from Afghanistan and now sometimes Syria. I watched this video like 20 minutes after it was posted, and I can tell you it had a lot of really nice comments on the video before it went total viral. Then all the anti-american's started setting in on the video telling people lies of it's fake and what not.
Before you guys go saying there lies and cheats the people who post this go back and look at what they actually do. The people who post the video talk to soldiers and are supporters of wounded warrior foundation. Along with most of the people who run it are former military. Now the reason I can say this isn't fake because they pretty much post daily footage of combat footage that has TOW missiles, J-DAM bombs, FLIR footage from AH-64 Apaches. Now unless they like spending millions of dollars to make all that other fake footage that only makes 200,000 views on youtube. To only be fake and make less money than they spent, then please tell me another reason why this is fake.
Obviously I've never been in war, the thing is not only is the guy getting hated on for being an American soldier. He's also being hated on for the way he reacts when he's getting shot at from multiple enemy's, all alone all by himself. Come on there is no need to tell the guy how to fight when I think he learned his lesson from getting shot 4 times.
http://www.youtube.com/user/FUNKER530
Just in case you guys didn't read the description of the video
No rounds penetrated his body armor, and he made it home with no permanent injuries. This happened in Kunar Province, Afghanistan.
*READ* From the cameraman:
" I got a hit a total of 4 times. My helmet cam died and i made it down the mountain on my own. I was also hit in the side of my helmet and my eye pro was shot off of my face. We were doing overwatch on the village to recon and gather intel. I was point heading down the face of the hill with the LT. when we got hit. the rest of the squad was pinned down by machine gun fire. I didn't start the video until a few mins into the firefight for obvious reasons. I came out into the open to draw fire so my squad could get to safety."
"A round struck the tube by my hand of the 203 grenade launcher which knocked it out of my hands. When I picked the rifle back up it was still functional but the grenade launcher tube had a nice sized 7.62 cal bullet hole in it and was rendered useless. "
This footage is part of an ongoing documentation of the war in Afghanistan. Subscribe for more footage uploaded daily.
Again, please read what I wrote a bit more closely. I've already stated that I think Funker530 possibly put this video up with the rest of his real videos without knowing it's a fake, and now after it has gone viral and made him a little famous and some money, is unsure how to retract it. I know of nearly a dozen people that have tried contacting him in the last three days to get more information, such as the identity of the person in the video, but he won't answer. Strange, don't you think.
Also Stealth, O master of all things recorded in Afghanistan on video, try this on for size. In the ten years worth of videos on the web taken during this war, can you find ONE SINGLE other video that has no other soldiers in it but the one with the camera, or no faces shown, or no voices to be heard other than this guys? Try and find one. Good luck, because you WON'T. I've posted since the first hour that this video has been up my reasons for believing that it's staged, I didn't decide out of the blue after the fact to try and follow some "anti American" agenda like you claim. I worked and fought together with many Americans, the first company I worked for IS American, and the last one I worked for comprised about 50% Americans. Also, regarding videos, I've been in several myself that have ended up both in the news, and on Utube. I've also been in a feature length documentary, seen by members of congress, the senate, and the entire United Nations committee investigating the war, and the private companies conducting operations there. www.shadowcompany.com, feel free to check it out yourself. I think I have a reasonable degree of experience regarding videos of action in Afghanistan, and what they look like, and sound like, etc. This experience and knowledge is what set my BS sense off the first time I watched this ridiculous forgery. After watching it through a dozen times, I made the dozen or so points I've already posted which lead me to believe it's a fake. If you can watch the video and go down my list of points, and then at the end watch this "soldier" fake being hit in the armor several times while either having his body turned sideways to the threat axis, thus exposing the un armored side of his body while making fake grunts simulating "hits", then do another one while lying down, claiming his armor took the hit in this position, then watch the so called "m203" strike, and how he flips the rifle intentionally out of his hands FORWARD, toward the direction it is shot from, and then to top it off, not once check himself with his hands for wounds or hits to himself or his body armor. Why does the m203 in the video not show any damage, or even paint chipped off it when the video is slowed and zoomed in after he retrieves it? If you can explain all of these things away, on top of the first points I made regarding this, and still believe it not to be stage, I give up trying to argue reason with you.
I encourage you to try and contact Funker530 yourself, and see if you can get him to answer a simple question - who is this guy in the video, and why has nobody come forward to claim all the fame it's garnered? Why has nobody come forward saying "hey I remember that day when so and so moved down that hill in the face of enemy fire, and saved us from being pinned down, and to top it off took 4 hits and walked away with nary a scratch"?
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What Fame? The guy who sent this video out is losing rank!!!! Real or fake.
That being said.....looks like Afghanistan for sure. Different from Kandahar, but definitely similar.
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No, what I said was that the sounds had possibly been edited by desktop software. I said that the dust from the rounds impacting were too small, as Vulcan just pointed out again, and that they were either made with something like a small caliber rifle or a dustball gun as used by hollywood special effects guys, being fired by an accomplice behind the field of view of the camera. Watch the video closely, and observe some of the strikes in the dirt, and notice the direction that the dust flies.
ok, my bad. What's the give away on the dust?
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No, what I said was that the sounds had possibly been edited by desktop software. I said that the dust from the rounds impacting were too small, as Vulcan just pointed out again, and that they were either made with something like a small caliber rifle or a dustball gun as used by hollywood special effects guys, being fired by an accomplice behind the field of view of the camera. Watch the video closely, and observe some of the strikes in the dirt, and notice the direction that the dust flies.
Again, please read what I wrote a bit more closely. I've already stated that I think Funker530 possibly put this video up with the rest of his real videos without knowing it's a fake, and now after it has gone viral and made him a little famous and some money, is unsure how to retract it. I know of nearly a dozen people that have tried contacting him in the last three days to get more information, such as the identity of the person in the video, but he won't answer. Strange, don't you think.
Also Stealth, O master of all things recorded in Afghanistan on video, try this on for size. In the ten years worth of videos on the web taken during this war, can you find ONE SINGLE other video that has no other soldiers in it but the one with the camera, or no faces shown, or no voices to be heard other than this guys? Try and find one. Good luck, because you WON'T. I've posted since the first hour that this video has been up my reasons for believing that it's staged, I didn't decide out of the blue after the fact to try and follow some "anti American" agenda like you claim. I worked and fought together with many Americans, the first company I worked for IS American, and the last one I worked for comprised about 50% Americans. Also, regarding videos, I've been in several myself that have ended up both in the news, and on Utube. I've also been in a feature length documentary, seen by members of congress, the senate, and the entire United Nations committee investigating the war, and the private companies conducting operations there. www.shadowcompany.com, feel free to check it out yourself. I think I have a reasonable degree of experience regarding videos of action in Afghanistan, and what they look like, and sound like, etc. This experience and knowledge is what set my BS sense off the first time I watched this ridiculous forgery. After watching it through a dozen times, I made the dozen or so points I've already posted which lead me to believe it's a fake. If you can watch the video and go down my list of points, and then at the end watch this "soldier" fake being hit in the armor several times while either having his body turned sideways to the threat axis, thus exposing the un armored side of his body while making fake grunts simulating "hits", then do another one while lying down, claiming his armor took the hit in this position, then watch the so called "m203" strike, and how he flips the rifle intentionally out of his hands FORWARD, toward the direction it is shot from, and then to top it off, not once check himself with his hands for wounds or hits to himself or his body armor. Why does the m203 in the video not show any damage, or even paint chipped off it when the video is slowed and zoomed in after he retrieves it? If you can explain all of these things away, on top of the first points I made regarding this, and still believe it not to be stage, I give up trying to argue reason with you.
I encourage you to try and contact Funker530 yourself, and see if you can get him to answer a simple question - who is this guy in the video, and why has nobody come forward to claim all the fame it's garnered? Why has nobody come forward saying "hey I remember that day when so and so moved down that hill in the face of enemy fire, and saved us from being pinned down, and to top it off took 4 hits and walked away with nary a scratch"?
You pose a very valid argument of good reasoning under the assumption this video is fake. Also just to get it out there I was not pointing my comment towards you, it's more pointed to the less logical comments that say things like "idiot". Anyway from what you say looking at the video dozens of times scanning the smoke, muzzle flash, reaction, impact of rounds etc. That you say this video is fake, is very well possible and someone could very well know for sure. We may never know if this is real or fake but we must admit it did look what some people would say looks "awesome". I will be contacting Funker530 as I've done before referring to the credibility to the video if it's real. If this is fake, I'm contacting them anyway because the people who made it for sure performed some really high possible combat footage that media entertainment companies and I would sure be interested in on how they fooled 10,000,000 people.
Lastly I do have to say you did a lot of great research on if it's real or not, which doesn't really matter if it is or not. Just out of curiosity why go into such depth of looking for the truth of the video. Also NBC managed to do coverage on this video might wanna check that out. Anderson Cooper did as well just saw it on TV. Just a little more evidence that Funker doesn't wanna reveal the truth or they'll get pounded.
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/nbcnews.com/49196413/#49196413 (http://video.msnbc.msn.com/nbcnews.com/49196413/#49196413)
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I've watched that video multiple times now and I'm not seeing any BS. When the enemy rounds impact that kick up dust and the dust carries off in the wind. You can see the dust and rocks kick up plain as day. As far as NATO vs Com-bloc weapons fire, if the thought ever crossed people's minds that the baddies could have gotten their hands on a gimpy or SAW? Highly possible.
There is just too much evidence and too many other things going on for someone to act this stuff out. I can understand how some may want to call "BS" from their keyboard but I'm not willing to. I'll give the guy his due.
Watch from the 2:25 mark and *see* the impacts, the dust kick up, and *hear* his voice. There is no BS in this, at least in not what we are seeing.
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The M203 more than likely wasn't loaded at the time.
Yeah true.
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I've watched that video multiple times now and I'm not seeing any BS. When the enemy rounds impact that kick up dust and the dust carries off in the wind. You can see the dust and rocks kick up plain as day. As far as NATO vs Com-bloc weapons fire, if the thought ever crossed people's minds that the baddies could have gotten their hands on a gimpy or SAW? Highly possible.
There is just too much evidence and too many other things going on for someone to act this stuff out. I can understand how some may want to call "BS" from their keyboard but I'm not willing to. I'll give the guy his due.
Watch from the 2:25 mark and *see* the impacts, the dust kick up, and *hear* his voice. There is no BS in this, at least in not what we are seeing.
People who have been shot at in real life are saying the kick-ups and sounds seem fake. I agree with their opinions...
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People who have been shot at in real life are saying the kick-ups and sounds seem fake. I agree with their opinions...
Personally the sounds of guns aren't what I heard....I personally was giving out fire commands and looking for targets.....
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Understood Stealth, thank you for the clarifications as well everyone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jyk7e0VMwmw
Check this video out. Notice at 2:15 the incoming rounds, and the snap coinciding with the impacts into the soft vertical wall (you can barely see the impacts due to the material they are hitting). Then notice that the "thump" of the rifle fire is 1/2 to 2/3 of a second AFTER this sound. Much different then the BS video. There is also DOZENS of helmet cam videos on Funker's site that are excellent. Each of them has a notation of the unit involved at the very LEAST, and in some cases much more information, such as the location, and the exact troops involved. They also have other faces, voices, much larger dust sprites - a lot of things this staged video being discussed doesn't.
Also I agree with Junky in some respects, I've not always heard the incoming fire either being mostly inside a vehicle when it's began, and if you are wearing any kind of a headset system it becomes much harder. The headset I used would block out a lot of really loud stuff, and amplify the quieter sounds, which can screw up your sense of sound as well if that feature is enabled. That said, I've heard a lot of fire without anything on my ears both outgoing and incoming, just not all the time depending on the circumstances.
As for the arguments for and against the sounds/dust, these are just a small part of my argument against the authenticity of the video. Remember, these strikes COULD be coming from a real military rifle or MG - my point is that I don't believe that whatever made them is coming from the Taliban in the hills in the distance where this guy was shooting, that they originated from an accomplice behind him. It's very easy with a large caliber paintball or airgun even to make those close strikes by his feet, and even easier to replicate the ones further away.
I STILL can't believe ANYONE can buy that hit on his m203 when he rolls/flips the rifle from his hands, then doesn't check himself once in over a minute while claiming "he's hit" a dozen times vocally. Also, I don't know of anyone who has been hit by 4 different bursts of fire, one of them in the head, and not gotten a "scratch" as he claims. I mean seriously, what are the odds of being hit FOUR times in about two minutes or less, all in different locations, and having everyone hit either your front/rear plate, or your helmet. Ridiculous.
Also, yes I know Anderson Cooper did a spot on this. Dara Brown at MSNBC was the first reporter to do a "wide" story on this. This is the reason FOX news has been foaming at the mouth the last 24 hours and called me half a dozen times since I tipped them off regarding this- they want to make their competitors look stupid, as they apparently haven't ran a wide story on this yet like they did. Yet for some strange reason, with all the investigating power at their command, they STILL cannot get a response regarding the authenticity, origin, or even the name of the unit or location this video apparently occurred. A little strange for a "real" video, don't you think? With one of the major news agencies involved, I'm confident the facts and truth will come to light, very shortly as well. I know Funker530 is a Canadian, and I think that he was just duped by this video, and didn't intentionally post it knowing he would make some extra money and exposure, as every single other video I've seen of his appears legit. The reason they appear legit is they have NONE of the problems or issues described regarding this staged video.
Anyhow, I respect everyone's opinion to BE their opinion, and there IS logic in saying that calling this video out to be BS without absolute proof is wrong, and as I said from post number 1, if I'm wrong, hey, I'm wrong and my instincts and process failed me, but I do believe I'm correct.
The truth will come out, it always does. As far as the "reduction" in rank Junky mentioned, if this guy IS a soldier and just made this video up as a laugh and it got loose, I'd say he may be facing some serious punishment as well. If he intentionally claimed to Funker when he sent this in to him that he's a hero for saving his unit that was under fire, I bet there is a court martial over it (I'm not US Army, so I don't know the criteria, but in the Canadian Army he would be for sure). I feel badly for Funker, as his little site he has going is an excellent collection of videos of troops under fire, and I only wish he would have taken the time when I first asked him a bunch of questions regarding this video to answer them. He could have easily gotten the video down long before it went viral and ended up on national news while he checked out who sent it to him, and from where etc.
Final Points of the day: He claims he was doing "recon on the village to gather intel" or some such nonsense. Recon insinuates this was an intel gathering operation. Is the US Army real big on letting films made for intel gathering purposes hit UTube? For that matter, would a recon element get into a protracted firefight in the first place and not bug out, or at least try to? Recon Guys I know have all said that this is contrary to what recon does in the first place.
Also, head direction. Notice how he keeps his head down and forward as much as possible, even when calling out to others? "hey, I'm moving down the hill" or "lay down some effing fire". Wouldn't you turn your head, even slightly towards the direction you were yelling? No, his head stays pointed straight downhill, not even really towards his 'arc', and doesn't move once while calling out to others. The reason I believe is that there IS no others there for him to be calling. Just think about it - when you yell at somebody, no matter the circumstance, you turn your head towards them by human nature - you don't look away from them then call out. Do you? Watch any other video of guys under fire using yelling out vocal commands or information - their heads always turn up the line, or in the direction of the person they want to call the information too. Yet helmet cam man in this video doesn't.
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I've watched that video multiple times now and I'm not seeing any BS. When the enemy rounds impact that kick up dust and the dust carries off in the wind. You can see the dust and rocks kick up plain as day. As far as NATO vs Com-bloc weapons fire, if the thought ever crossed people's minds that the baddies could have gotten their hands on a gimpy or SAW? Highly possible.
There is just too much evidence and too many other things going on for someone to act this stuff out. I can understand how some may want to call "BS" from their keyboard but I'm not willing to. I'll give the guy his due.
Watch from the 2:25 mark and *see* the impacts, the dust kick up, and *hear* his voice. There is no BS in this, at least in not what we are seeing.
He's the only voice you hear, which is the biggest Red Flag of the video and I have only watched the video once. That was one of about 10-15 things "wrong" with it. Also, watch the video again and notice "what direction the wind is blowing".
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He's the only voice you hear, which is the biggest Red Flag of the video and I have only watched the video once. That was one of about 10-15 things "wrong" with it. Also, watch the video again and notice "what direction the wind is blowing".
From memory, the wind takes the dust to the right of the camera view.
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As someone who has been through dozens & dozens of combat engagements over many years, I wholeheartedly back everything Gman has said in this thread. :salute
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Thanks for the support USRanger and Karaya.
I've been on the phone for 2 hours with the office of the US Army Public Affairs. They have all of the information I've posted here and some I collected from other sites. After going step by step through the video with several people on a conference call box, they all agreed as well and are launching their own investigation outside of the media's and my own little crusade regarding this. The US Army asked me to leave this matter with them now, so I'm going to stop my campaign of trying to get an ID and information, and leave it to those who have a stake in how they are perceived in the media.
Results should be forthcoming shortly I would hope.
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As someone who has been through dozens & dozens of combat engagements over many years, I wholeheartedly back everything Gman has said in this thread. :salute
I'm completely convinced as well....
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Thanks for the support USRanger and Karaya.
I've been on the phone for 2 hours with the office of the US Army Public Affairs. They have all of the information I've posted here and some I collected from other sites. After going step by step through the video with several people on a conference call box, they all agreed as well and are launching their own investigation outside of the media's and my own little crusade regarding this. The US Army asked me to leave this matter with them now, so I'm going to stop my campaign of trying to get an ID and information, and leave it to those who have a stake in how they are perceived in the media.
Results should be forthcoming shortly I would hope.
Good on you man, hope everything gets cleared up quickly.
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Thanks for the support USRanger and Karaya.
I've been on the phone for 2 hours with the office of the US Army Public Affairs. They have all of the information I've posted here and some I collected from other sites. After going step by step through the video with several people on a conference call box, they all agreed as well and are launching their own investigation outside of the media's and my own little crusade regarding this. The US Army asked me to leave this matter with them now, so I'm going to stop my campaign of trying to get an ID and information, and leave it to those who have a stake in how they are perceived in the media.
Results should be forthcoming shortly I would hope.
:cheers: and Thank you for Serving.
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:cheers: and Thank you for Serving.
Amen
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Thanks for the support USRanger and Karaya.
I've been on the phone for 2 hours with the office of the US Army Public Affairs. They have all of the information I've posted here and some I collected from other sites. After going step by step through the video with several people on a conference call box, they all agreed as well and are launching their own investigation outside of the media's and my own little crusade regarding this. The US Army asked me to leave this matter with them now, so I'm going to stop my campaign of trying to get an ID and information, and leave it to those who have a stake in how they are perceived in the media.
Results should be forthcoming shortly I would hope.
Thanks Gman keep us updated will you please. :salute
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He's the only voice you hear, which is the biggest Red Flag of the video and I have only watched the video once. That was one of about 10-15 things "wrong" with it. Also, watch the video again and notice "what direction the wind is blowing".
I don't have a bone to pick in this discussion other then my curiosity, but I did hear voices in the distance when I watched it again.
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Ok, I'm going to preface this post by saying if I'm wrong about it, I'm wrong.
However, having spent some time over there myself, I have a few observations.
I believe this video to be a FAKE.
My reasons are as follows.
1. Sound. Yes, the rifle/machine gun fire sounds authentic, however you do not ONCE hear any communication from other people in this guys unit. He yelled out dozens of times, and wasn't answered once. Having been in his situation on a few occasions, I can attest to the fact that there is so much verbal exchange that it can become a problem processing everything everyone else is saying all at once. Yet in this video, you hear nothing but silence in that department. Just this guy yelling out stupidly. Also, I've heard the reaction from when people are shot. They don't yell out in any way shape or form in the manner this idiot does. It just sounds too fake. In the last sequence going "uhhh" to yelling out "I'm hiiiiit" in the same virtual instant...sorry doesn't happen like that. I mean just listen to it and try not to laugh at this guy faking it.
2. This persons lack of skills. His magazine change and empty mag management were a joke at best, and no trained soldier I've ever seen would fumble about this badly. Also, something about the way he struck the magazine release to send his bolt forward just struck me as amateurish like an untrained range shooter or something like that as well. Also, as you can see when he dropped his weapon several times that he didn't have it secured to his body when there was a nice double loop sling just sitting right there. Nobody I've ever seen or worked with would leave cover to begin an ascent or descent without first ensuring his kit, primarily his WEAPON was attached to him first. Also, he set his weapon DOWN ON THE GROUND while performing a reload. This in of itself is beyond laughable. There are several other things which just scream amateur. Also, when using a hand to assist you in moving through obstacles or terrain, you NEVER use your primary weapon hand, you use your SUPPORT hand. That's why it's called a SUPPORT hand. This guy just does so many things wrong I can't begin to point them all out.
Also, his emergency reload as I said is a complete joke. He makes two distinct movements inserting his magazine, then "slappin er home" just like you see guys do at the aforementioned ol' shootin range is precisely how NOT to do a rapid magazine change. When you are under fire you show just a tad more intensity when executing these things than this moron does. Rolling his rifle to observe the chamber during a non-malfunction drill was also a complete waste of time and very VERY lacking in the economy of motion that most well trained persons will execute during a tactical or emergency reload.
3. Equipment in Video. The rifle this guy is using is just too.....clean Also, it is nearly black in color still. Ask Junky or Iraqvet, or anyone else who has been in the desert theaters, and they'll agree that NO rifle has ever been so "black" and clean before or since this video. Also, his "Oakley gloves" may look cool in video games and the like, but they are far too clean and white still to belong to any operator I've ever seen. Also, where is the AN/Paq 4 laser designator? Something that isn't very common on the ol' range M4, but an item that is attached to virtually every M4 you can find in the 4th Infantry Divisions pictures from Afghanistan.
4. Dust hits from incoming fire. These are way WAY to small to represent strikes from 7.62x39 or 7.62x54 fire, the typical Taliban ammunition. They in fact are strikes from a paintball gun shooting dust balls or something similar, I'll bet my fortune on it. Look at them again in the video yourselves, and take out your trusty rifle and shoot it into some dust like in this terrain, and you'll get the idea. Also, when the rounds supposedly come in and "strike and destroy his m203", it looks more like he half bellybutton flips/tosses his rifle away when he drops it, as opposed to having it blown out of hands. Watch it a few times and look really close at the rifle when the sound of the rounds striking is added in.
In closing, what we are seeing here I believe is a guy in a rock quarry in the good ol US of A and his buddy filming a few shots going out with another guy behind the camera shooting some dust balls into the ground, and then a sound edit on PC desktop software adding in some realistic battle sounds taken from other videos.
In regards to the rifle. My brother in law is over there right now and recently a photo to my sister that included his M4. His son did a year over there as a SAW gunner with the 101st as well. When I saw you mention the 'black' rifle, I thought of this picture. I'll tell him it's too clean :) I note the sling is a different color as is the magazine in his M4. Looks similar though.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/DGS%20Scenario%20bits/M4-1.jpg)
You mentioned seeing white writing on the M4. Just out of curiosity I went step by step to see if I could find it. No go. Again I have no thoughts either way on the validity of the video just trying to see what you were seeing.
Left side
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/DGS%20Scenario%20bits/RifleLeft.jpg)
right side
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/DGS%20Scenario%20bits/RifleRight.jpg)
Another look from further back left
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/DGS%20Scenario%20bits/Rifle.jpg)
The grenade launcher
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/DGS%20Scenario%20bits/M203.jpg)
You mentioned the gloves. Not correct? The 4th ID patch shows up
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/DGS%20Scenario%20bits/Glove.jpg)
The sling when he yanks it back
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/DGS%20Scenario%20bits/Sling.jpg)
Two of the town from different angles. Some suggestion it's a training base in the states?
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/DGS%20Scenario%20bits/Town2.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/DGS%20Scenario%20bits/town.jpg)
The only other thing I noticed that seemed out of place. What's this string doing here? :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/DGS%20Scenario%20bits/String.jpg)
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if you know anybody that is familiar with plants other than you stoners, if you can identify that plant on the lower left corner then you know the location where it was filmed. anybody that has been over there should be able to identify the "cactus" looking plant i the picture with the glove.
semp
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4th I.D Headquartered Ft. Carson Co.
4th Brigade Combat Team redeployed from Afghanistan 9/15
Could be a training area on Carson.
String is also visible in other pictures there.
:cheers: Oz
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I wouldnt let the differences in rifle slings, fore ends, magazines, rails, etc, lead you to believe that this guy is fake. So many commercial companies are throwing their gear at the US military for "trial" purposes, or there may be tons of back orders on official stuff that in turn allows variances on different items to be used. PLUS... I know for a fact that soldiers over their are having their families send them things to help with their duties that the military does not issue or does not issue enough of (lip ice w/ sunblock, tan colored tape and/or spray paint, silly string, wet wipes, etc). Gloves are one item that the military allows much leeway on. When you're crawling around on rocks all day protecting your hands is important, neoprene or other such rubber gloves do the trick nicely.
The mag in the first photo is a "PMag" made here in the US by a company called Magpul. They've developed an entire line of items to "enhance" the M16 and M4 series of weapons. The soldier that is the topic of this video is using a standard USGI STANAG (STAdard NAto Gear) magazine. Both are fine magazines and work well, the British just placed an order of 100,000 of the PMags for their SA80's. The slings are of a newer design and a huge improvement over the standard strap that went from buttstock to front sight. Both of the designs allow the rifle to hang freely at the front of their person and the need to sling it over the should is eliminated. The optical sight is a 4x Trigicon TA31, they are an optic of the highest quality and each sight alone is worth $700 or so on the commercial market (I own that exact model).
I can not comment on the grenade launcher, but nothing seems too out of place on that. My biggest question is why did he not lob a few of them in? It has a max range of 400 yards, yes?
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4th I.D Headquartered Ft. Carson Co.
4th Brigade Combat Team redeployed from Afghanistan 9/15
Could be a training area on Carson.
String is also visible in other pictures there.
:cheers: Oz
Already told you guys that was NOT on Fort Carson or any of their Colorado training ranges.
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If it's any consolation, the local news group here apparently spoke to the soldier in question and confirmed the video.
If you can find it on their website, be my guest (http://www.wctv.tv) I can't find it, I just saw it on the television.
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4th I.D Headquartered Ft. Carson Co.
4th Brigade Combat Team redeployed from Afghanistan 9/15
Could be a training area on Carson.
String is also visible in other pictures there.
:cheers: Oz
One of the 4th ID. BCTs replaced 3BCT 25th ID in the spring time, in the Kunar Province.....going a long way to make a fake TIC video....
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I'm completely convinced as well....
I haven't a clue, but this is all fascinating as hell :aok
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dumb question, but what's that reddish band going from the top turret on the sight to the front of the sight? Is that a scope cap?
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dumb question, but what's that reddish band going from the top turret on the sight to the front of the sight? Is that a scope cap?
Fiber optic light gathering device so he doesn't need to use batteries during daylight hours on the scope for lighted reticle.
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Fiber optic light gathering device so he doesn't need to use batteries during daylight hours on the scope for lighted reticle.
There are no batteries in an ACOG TA31. However, that strip of red certainly is a piece of fiber optic that gathers light. It lights up the "donut" or triangle that serves as an aim point during day light hours. The sights uses tritium at all times but it is so dull during daytime that an extra boost is required to light itself up, hence the red fiber optics (green can be had, too). Check out Trijicon's website for more info: http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product1.php?id=ACOG
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btw... I've been hearing some people call BS on the account of body armor "not stopping AK rounds". For you folks trumpeting that cause may I suggest you investigate the efficiency of a bullet as it travels downrange, especially to 400-600 yard mark. You'd be surprised at what can stop an AK bullet that is only moving 500-700fps. Same goes for a 5.56 NATO bullet as well. In the world of down range performance (600 yds +) the Russian 7.62X54R and the 7.62 NATO reign supreme in terms of personal weapon cartridges. :aok
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IK personally cover the silly red crap....makes the site too bright
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IK personally cover the silly red crap....makes the site too bright
Electrical tape all day.
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Electrical tape all day.
yep :aok
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An idiot
I only watched half the video, up to the point where he got hit then cried for the rest of it saying that he was hit. First off, when is it in your right mind is it alright to stand up and start shooting in an open area like that? Secondly, where in the hell was his fire team? Even though I'm an air winger in the Marine Corps, in an open firefight like that, my first reaction would be to drop down and start laying rounds down range, while looking into the sight. I'm not about to shoot rounds and waste them if you can see where your shooter is. Next thing I would do would either be to find cover, while my fire team was suppressing fire, or I would be suppressing fire for my buddies to find cover. There is a little ditty that they taught us in boot camp, "I'm up, they see me, I'm down" Basically, you jump up, you run a few feet then drop back down. You run that ditty in your head every time you maneuver under fire. By the time you found cover or your buddies did, you start hitting the targets, with accurate shots.
This guy completely forgot his training, and suffered the price for it.
<S>
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Even though I'm an air winger in the Marine Corps,
Did you fly with Butcher?
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An idiot
I only watched half the video, up to the point where he got hit then cried for the rest of it saying that he was hit. First off, when is it in your right mind is it alright to stand up and start shooting in an open area like that? Secondly, where in the hell was his fire team? Even though I'm an air winger in the Marine Corps, in an open firefight like that, my first reaction would be to drop down and start laying rounds down range, while looking into the sight. I'm not about to shoot rounds and waste them if you can see where your shooter is. Next thing I would do would either be to find cover, while my fire team was suppressing fire, or I would be suppressing fire for my buddies to find cover. There is a little ditty that they taught us in boot camp, "I'm up, they see me, I'm down" Basically, you jump up, you run a few feet then drop back down. You run that ditty in your head every time you maneuver under fire. By the time you found cover or your buddies did, you start hitting the targets, with accurate shots.
This guy completely forgot his training, and suffered the price for it.
<S>
The description of the video can answer some of your questions. What he did however was pretty waky though. :rolleyes:
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An idiot
This guy completely forgot his training, and suffered the price for it.
<S>
Correct on all accounts except his fire team was probably doing the right thing in that situation. Open terrain your movement formations open up, since he is regualr Army Infantry his team was probably wedged out.(I used the diamond for my team just because of the terrain and tactics we were in) So the rest of his team could have easily been 35-40 meters away because of the open space....depending on the Team Leader/Squad Leaders SOPs.
:salute
People also need to remember that helmet cams dont pick up noise very well
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Correct on all accounts except his fire team was probably doing the right thing in that situation. Open terrain your movement formations open up, since he is regualr Army Infantry his team was probably wedged out.(I used the diamond for my team just because of the terrain and tactics we were in) So the rest of his team could have easily been 35-40 meters away because of the open space....depending on the Team Leader/Squad Leaders SOPs.
:salute
People also need to remember that helmet cams dont pick up noise very well
That's true, or they were probably covered somewhere lol.
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An idiot
I only watched half the video, up to the point where he got hit then cried for the rest of it saying that he was hit. First off, when is it in your right mind is it alright to stand up and start shooting in an open area like that? Secondly, where in the hell was his fire team? Even though I'm an air winger in the Marine Corps, in an open firefight like that, my first reaction would be to drop down and start laying rounds down range, while looking into the sight. I'm not about to shoot rounds and waste them if you can see where your shooter is. Next thing I would do would either be to find cover, while my fire team was suppressing fire, or I would be suppressing fire for my buddies to find cover. There is a little ditty that they taught us in boot camp, "I'm up, they see me, I'm down" Basically, you jump up, you run a few feet then drop back down. You run that ditty in your head every time you maneuver under fire. By the time you found cover or your buddies did, you start hitting the targets, with accurate shots.
This guy completely forgot his training, and suffered the price for it.
<S>
*sigh*
You were not there, you do not know where the enemy was, you do not know what happened prior to the video and can only see from the authors digi-cam perspective. You also have the luxury of hindsight. Maybe he had a position of very good cover picked out 50 yards away? Lots of unanswered questions, far more than any one of us with or without combat experience can accurately make such scathing review as you did. The one thing most of us can agree on is that he left cover to "move on down". That's it. He made a choice to do so and he got hit, luckily for him he was hit where he was protected. Maybe his actions allowed enough time for back up to arrive, or for his team to reposition, or maybe his movement spooked the enemy in to falling back. We do not know. But this I do know: there is a lot of finger pointing and a lot of judgments being made by people who have no business doing so simply because there are too many things unknown that the video does not tell us.
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*sigh*
You were not there, you do not know where the enemy was, you do not know what happened prior to the video and can only see from the authors digi-cam perspective. You also have the luxury of hindsight. Maybe he had a position of very good cover picked out 50 yards away? Lots of unanswered questions, far more than any one of us with or without combat experience can accurately make such scathing review as you did. The one thing most of us can agree on is that he left cover to "move on down". That's it. He made a choice to do so and he got hit, luckily for him he was hit where he was protected. Maybe his actions allowed enough time for back up to arrive, or for his team to reposition, or maybe his movement spooked the enemy in to falling back. We do not know. But this I do know: there is a lot of finger pointing and a lot of judgments being made by people who have no business doing so simply because there are too many things unknown that the video does not tell us.
You were not there either. Maybe he said he got hit...... maybe there was no threat.
I don't think anyone has shown the video is real or not.
Not guessing at what happened before the video. If real, all the video shows is someone moving out in the open on what seams to be a ridge. That is just not smart when under fire. Draw fire by shooting at the enemy, not completely exposing yourself. If hit and wounded or killed then he endangers everyone around him as they have to recover him.
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*sigh*
You were not there, you do not know where the enemy was, you do not know what happened prior to the video and can only see from the authors digi-cam perspective. You also have the luxury of hindsight. Maybe he had a position of very good cover picked out 50 yards away? Lots of unanswered questions, far more than any one of us with or without combat experience can accurately make such scathing review as you did. The one thing most of us can agree on is that he left cover to "move on down". That's it. He made a choice to do so and he got hit, luckily for him he was hit where he was protected. Maybe his actions allowed enough time for back up to arrive, or for his team to reposition, or maybe his movement spooked the enemy in to falling back. We do not know. But this I do know: there is a lot of finger pointing and a lot of judgments being made by people who have no business doing so simply because there are too many things unknown that the video does not tell us.
I can break this down clearly, so you can better understand the things that I've said.
Number one: He was never under cover. From the moment the video started, he was standing up and shooting at the target, and not aiming down the sight (and you can clearly tell that he is not aiming down the sight). Now that right there tells me two things: either he knew where the target was, or he was just firing rounds pretty much for absolutely no reason. I know for a fact, regardless of training either army or Marine Corps, that we won't fire unless we know where the target lies. Now what I can see a reason why he was shooting without looking down the sights tells me that he knew the general location of where the target(s) were, and he laid some suppressive fire. It still doesn't makes sense to me why he stood there and moved maybe 50 yards and didn't think he wouldn't get shot at.
There isn't many variables in this. This video is clear as day, and I can get very deep into what he did wrong and what should have happened.
<S>
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Well we've gone from it's a 'definate fake" to now it's 'probably real'.
Funny how the wind blows sometimes. Anyone have a definitive answer?
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Until the guy in the video comes forward and says it's fake....it's real to me.
My reasons are simple....too much research went into knowing 4th ID is in Kunar.
Second, I have about 20 buddies who have been in that area...literally like the mountain he is shooting at.
Third, MAXXPROs don't get full up armor anywhere but Afghanistan. The ones used in training are all first generation. Only place you might see them is at JRTC or NTC.
:salute
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Well we've gone from it's a 'definate fake" to now it's 'probably real'.
Funny how the wind blows sometimes. Anyone have a definitive answer?
I mentioned earlier that a local news station confirmed it was real.
Then gman never said anything else....
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Well we've gone from it's a 'definate fake" to now it's 'probably real'.
Funny how the wind blows sometimes. Anyone have a definitive answer?
I found another camera angle of the incident.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLRXKlU02Oc
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If that's narrowed down to Kunar province or Ft Carson area, looks like it could be found on Google Earth
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I can break this down clearly, so you can better understand the things that I've said.
Number one: He was never under cover. From the moment the video started, he was standing up and shooting at the target, and not aiming down the sight (and you can clearly tell that he is not aiming down the sight). Now that right there tells me two things: either he knew where the target was, or he was just firing rounds pretty much for absolutely no reason. I know for a fact, regardless of training either army or Marine Corps, that we won't fire unless we know where the target lies. Now what I can see a reason why he was shooting without looking down the sights tells me that he knew the general location of where the target(s) were, and he laid some suppressive fire. It still doesn't makes sense to me why he stood there and moved maybe 50 yards and didn't think he wouldn't get shot at.
There isn't many variables in this. This video is clear as day, and I can get very deep into what he did wrong and what should have happened.
<S>
We did not see him behind cover at he the beginning of the video, doesn't mean he wasn't prior and it doesn't mean he wasn't moving to cover when he took direct enemy fire. Again, we simply do not know. As far as "aiming" down the sight, I beg to differ. Watch as he fires he rifle from :08 to :21, he moves his head down to the sights on the 1st and 3rd volley. The 2nd volley I'm guessing he is watching for his rounds impacting to adjust fire. Just because the camera does not line up each time with the rifle the same way does not mean he does not have a "cheek weld" and is not using the sights, I've fired enough AR15 variants in enough rifle and carbine course to tell you that. Also, he was firing while kneeling, not standing. Watch the video again. ;)
As far firing his rifle: "that we won't fire unless we know where the target lies", that certainly is not an accurate statement. If it is known that there is an enemy combatant at position A, and there is cover all around or near to their flanks, especially if those positions provide an avenue of approach for the enemy to close the gap, you had better believe there will be come suppression fire dealt in to those areas. In this situation, I'm guessing he could see the enemy muzzle flashes and were firing at that position until arty, air, or heavy weapons could lend a hand. Again, all speculation. It'd be very nice to have the author narrate this video, wouldn't it?
I'm not claiming to know the details of the fire fight, or to even say what this guy did was right or wrong, I'm trying to make sure those of you so quick to crucify this soldier are aware that you can not know all the details of the fight either. There are so many variables missing for any of us to blatantly judge. Only is immediate comrades and his superiors will know the actual events prior, during, and after this video. Some of you guys need to lay off the arm chair general BS.
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I mentioned earlier that a local news station confirmed it was real.
Then gman never said anything else....
Well to be correct, you said a local TV station claimed it was real then the story can't be found anywhere on their website. I looked as well. That leads me to believe they may have pulled it after finding it lacked any verification. I also have not seen any other documentation or media confirmation anywhere else of the video as either real or fake to date. To me that means it's still up in the wind. Unless we get outside confirmation or something to corroborate the video, it's still suspect IMO. YMMV
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If that's narrowed down to Kunar province or Ft Carson area, looks like it could be found on Google Earth
Eye witnesses have told me Kunar...don't need to investigate further.
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Just to show that the soldier was real and what not. To hopefully end any further doubt for you that do or did. :salute http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/soldier_describes_firefight_after_GonI2RmhT2T2LlVfrWgSxL (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/soldier_describes_firefight_after_GonI2RmhT2T2LlVfrWgSxL)
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Just to show that the soldier was real and what not. To hopefully end any further doubt for you that do or did. :salute http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/soldier_describes_firefight_after_GonI2RmhT2T2LlVfrWgSxL (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/soldier_describes_firefight_after_GonI2RmhT2T2LlVfrWgSxL)
Thank you for posting this
:salute Pfc. Ted Daniels
Gman, Ranger, Karaya, Wide
Nuthin to say now? Like ....we were wrong? You especially Gman... Nada?
Disgusting,
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Gman, Ranger, Karaya, Wide
Nuthin to say now? Like ....we were wrong? You especially Gman... Nada?
Disgusting,
It hasnt even been 24 hours geez not everybody trolls the bbs on an hourly basis, put your troll bait away
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It hasnt even been 24 hours geez not everybody trolls the bbs on an hourly basis, put your troll bait away
:rofl :aok
Spot on.
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I doubt we'll hear much from anyone. It is not typical for anyone to step forward and "repent", I bet we'll see, if anything, a few say "it proves nothing".
I still say no one could "edit" in the bullet impacts so very near him, nor could they edit the sound so well to mimic the echoes of the gun shots mixed in with the sounds of his foot steps. There are far too many legit things going on in that video for it to be fake. But, to each his own. I'm not wasting sleep on anyone's opinion. ;)
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They'll still fault him or something in the video for whatever reason. Someone will disect the creases in his uniform to highlight that the guy didn't fold or stow it correctly if they get the fancy to.
I remember reading last year someone saying the logic of drawing fire is sound, but his execution and form were in need of improvement. That now seems to be correct. In the story/interview, even he admits it was stupid what he did, but doing something you have to do isn't stupid if it works (I think I'll call it luck).
Oh, and In.
(http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com/blog/wp-content/lolz/images/hurrithreadgy6.jpg)
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I doubt we'll hear much from anyone. It is not typical for anyone to step forward and "repent", I bet we'll see, if anything, a few say "it proves nothing".
I still say no one could "edit" in the bullet impacts so very near him, nor could they edit the sound so well to mimic the echoes of the gun shots mixed in with the sounds of his foot steps. There are far too many legit things going on in that video for it to be fake. But, to each his own. I'm not wasting sleep on anyone's opinion. ;)
dude repent for what, not like we were protesting on somebody's lawn. based on the information available the doubts raised were valid, that they turned out to be wrong well guess what this is just an obscure bb that didnt make it to the new york times.
have you repented for all the wrong things you have said on this bb?
midway
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dude repent for what, not like we were protesting on somebody's lawn. based on the information available the doubts raised were valid, that they turned out to be wrong well guess what this is just an obscure bb that didnt make it to the new york times.
have you repented for all the wrong things you have said on this bb?
midway
*leg humps guncrasher* Relax. Don't take it so personal. :)
Based on the information that was available passing judgement on this infantryman is the last thing any of us should have done. I neither supported or dogged him for what he did because coming from a LEO background I KNOW there are things that video does not show or explain and that people will pick and choose what to see and not see unless there is absolute commentary from the author. Even if the author would have lost his life I would have not called this fake for the reason I've already mentioned. I just get a kick out of the people who are so quick with the judgements when they have little or no experience with maneuvers, firearms, etc, and they judge so quickly with nothing to stand on. I'm not pointing to anyone here in specific, that is just a general statement.
Has anyone else seen the entire Rodney King video? Does anyone know what the Use of Force guidelines and laws were in CA at that time?
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*leg humps guncrasher* Relax. Don't take it so personal. :)
Based on the information that was available passing judgement on this infantryman is the last thing any of us should have done. I neither supported or dogged him for what he did because coming from a LEO background I KNOW there are things that video does not show or explain and that people will pick and choose what to see and not see unless there is absolute commentary from the author. Even if the author would have lost his life I would have not called this fake for the reason I've already mentioned. I just get a kick out of the people who are so quick with the judgements when they have little or no experience with maneuvers, firearms, etc, and they judge so quickly with nothing to stand on. I'm not pointing to anyone here in specific, that is just a general statement.
Has anyone else seen the entire Rodney King video? Does anyone know what the Use of Force guidelines and laws were in CA at that time?
they were not so quick in passing judment. the questions about the video were valid from putting the rifle down to reload, not another voice heard on the video, the soldier shooting at nothing all the way to gunfire sounds.
and I saw the entire rodney king video as it was shown on tv way back then. and the police guidelines and laws of California at the same did not include beating the crap out of somebody once he posed no threat.
but here it is for you. you can actually see an officer trying to stop another from beating him at about 27 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OauOPTwbqk
midway
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I doubt we'll hear much from anyone. It is not typical for anyone to step forward and "repent", I bet we'll see, if anything, a few say "it proves nothing".
I still say no one could "edit" in the bullet impacts so very near him, nor could they edit the sound so well to mimic the echoes of the gun shots mixed in with the sounds of his foot steps. There are far too many legit things going on in that video for it to be fake. But, to each his own. I'm not wasting sleep on anyone's opinion. ;)
I still say, it's possible to add a after-effects to the films with rotor-scoping.
Why those bullet hits are beyond todays CGI?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQHw6scdQ7E
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I just watched the video for the first time. It's hard to see what he is shooting at, but that is understandable given the situation. There is one thing that I am certain is real, he is firing the gun with real bullets. You don't get that kind of recoil when firing blanks.
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they were not so quick in passing judment. the questions about the video were valid from putting the rifle down to reload, not another voice heard on the video, the soldier shooting at nothing all the way to gunfire sounds.
and I saw the entire rodney king video as it was shown on tv way back then. and the police guidelines and laws of California at the same did not include beating the crap out of somebody once he posed no threat.
but here it is for you. you can actually see an officer trying to stop another from beating him at about 27 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OauOPTwbqk
midway
Again, regarding the soldier's video: You mention "shooting at nothing", while we can not see what he is shooting at means he is not shooting at "nothing". I bet he know where the incoming fire was originating, hence his aiming his outbound fire. The reload? Yeah, I agree but that was a luxury he took (grabbing in to a bag) for the new mag. My question is why he didnt grab one out of his vest? Did he run those mags dry and now he was digging in to his reserve? We dont know, so I'll give him his due since we do not have the info to judge. Voices? Maybe they were cut out by gunfire noise? Maybe he was being responded back to with hand signals? We dont know. With the incoming rounds impacting within camera shot, I find it hard to believe that was acted out.
Regarding King-
Here is some information for you, King tossed those COPS around like rag dolls, but we didnt see that in the news. All we saw was Koon swinging his PR24 (baton) like a bat at King's legs, which in itself was all about pain compliance. Thing was though, King could not feel pain thanks to his PCP trip. Did the COPs go too far? Tough call, the courts said yes for obvious reasons. Trust me when I say I was on the bandwagon at one point in condemning what the COPs did, but after watching the entire tape and knowing the ins and outs of law enforcement I've pulled my condemnation back. Nailing someone in the shins or thighs is completely within the realm of pain compliance. Kings body was not feeling the pain but his joints were swelling so badly that he couldn't walk, and it was THEN that Sgt Koon should have stopped but he kept going and that is when he crossed the line. There was enough man power to subdue King once his body was not able to hardly move, but until then King literally tossed COPs over the hood of their car and didn't even flinch when checked, OC'ed, or threatened with deadly force. This in a subject for an entirely different thread, the point I was trying to make was to NOT jump to conclusions without knowing the entire story. This goes for everything.
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I just watched the video for the first time. It's hard to see in the video what he is shooting at, but that is understandable given the situation. There is one thing that I am certain is real, he is firing the gun with real bullets. You don't get that kind of recoil when firing blanks.
Did you notice the incoming bullet impacts? You'll see bits of dust and rock fragments kick up in view of the camera as he moves down.
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Lol I still have my message I sent to Gman some time ago when Funker Tactical proved it was legit after the posting. He never replied.
Matter of fact:
I mentioned earlier that a local news station confirmed it was real.
Then gman never said anything else....
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Has anyone else seen the entire Rodney King video? Does anyone know what the Use of Force guidelines and laws were in CA at that time?
Prior to the Video you mention.
Rodney King was speeding in excess of 100mph, under the influence of alcohol (around .2 [twice the legal limit] when the whole situation unfolded) and refused to pull over (Toxicology reports proved no PCP was not in his system). He then stopped, got out flashed some fingers at the cops. Got back in his car and proceeded to exceed 100mph again. King later admitted in court, that he attempted to outrun the police at dangerously high speeds because the charge of DUI would violate his parole for a previous robbery conviction. They took his BAC fives hours later, after he was arrested and it was just under the Legal limit.
So no, that part of the video doesn't exist. He was also resisting arrest while still under the influence of alcohol. The "video" starts as he is tazed for the second time. What would you have done? His two passengers weren't even charged and gave no resistance while being restrained temporarily on the scene.
"Use of Force Continuum" :rofl The Office in Charge of the scene ordered weapons holstered, long before that video even started.
It was followed to be honest:
Verbalization — Force is not-physical. (This went out of the window when he got back into his car and sped away with intent to evade)
Officers may increase their volume and shorten commands in an attempt to gain compliance. Short commands might include "Stop," or "Don't move." (Pretty sure before he flipped off the 5.0, verbal commands were used by the LEO's and his passengers. Comments would have been "WTF are you doing?" or along those lines.
Empty-Hand Control — Officers use bodily force to gain control of a situation. (This was used prior to the video)
Soft technique. Officers use grabs, holds and joint locks to restrain an individual.
Hard technique. Officers use punches and kicks to restrain an individual.
Less-Lethal Methods — Officers use less-lethal technologies to gain control of a situation. (This was used to no effect as well as Empty-Hand)
Blunt impact. Officers may use a baton or projectile to immobilize a combative person. (Oh he was combative and charged Officers a couple of times and LEO's aren't too receptive of that. They also tried a couple of times to hog tie him and finally succeeded)
Chemical. Officers may use chemical sprays or projectiles embedded with chemicals to restrain an individual (e.g., pepper spray). (I have never seen a report or heard of this being used, but it wouldn't have mattered)
Conducted Energy Devices (CEDs). Officers may use CEDs to immobilize an individual. CEDs discharge a high-voltage, low-amperage jolt of electricity at a distance. (I doubt the tazers back then were as quality as they are today. Also, they are still know to be fickle at times.)
The only thing left is to use Lethal Force. So are you implying they shouldn't have holstered weapons? ;)
Fast forward from 1993 to the present. Convicted of DUI, running into his wife with a car, a couple more Reckless Driving charges and even another DUI in 2003, after he ran a red light, refused to pull over (there seems to be a pattern here) and ran into a house IIRC. In 2011, he was cited for Driving without a License and later skipped the hearing, so that was added to him being arrested for Reckless Driving in 2012. He drowned after a night of drinking, snorting blow and puffing weed. No sympathy for him here.
I am trying to wonder what angle you are looking for here? Comparing Rodney King to the video from the OP, is pointless and a straw man reach at best. Portions of a City were burned and Reginald Denny took a brick to his head point blank, all because a drunken idiot resisted arrest after breaking countless Misdemeanors and a couple of Felonies in one night. "Use of Force Continuum" is your hill to die on? :rofl
Semp. Correct and Thank you. Three Veterans and myself questioned the authenticity. Valid points were made/discussed, some went at length and in great detail. If the video IS real, then I apologize.
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I still say, it's possible to add a after-effects to the films with rotor-scoping.
I'm guessing you mean rotoscoping, and it's pretty clear you don't know anything about it.
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Prior to the Video you mention.
Rodney King was speeding in excess of 100mph, under the influence of alcohol (around .2 [twice the legal limit] when the whole situation unfolded) and refused to pull over (Toxicology reports proved no PCP was not in his system). He then stopped, got out flashed some fingers at the cops. Got back in his car and proceeded to exceed 100mph again. King later admitted in court, that he attempted to outrun the police at dangerously high speeds because the charge of DUI would violate his parole for a previous robbery conviction. They took his BAC fives hours later, after he was arrested and it was just under the Legal limit.
So no, that part of the video doesn't exist. He was also resisting arrest while still under the influence of alcohol. The "video" starts as he is tazed for the second time. What would you have done? His two passengers weren't even charged and gave no resistance while being restrained temporarily on the scene.
"Use of Force Continuum" :rofl The Office in Charge of the scene ordered weapons holstered, long before that video even started.
It was followed to be honest:
Verbalization — Force is not-physical. (This went out of the window when he got back into his car and sped away with intent to evade)
Officers may increase their volume and shorten commands in an attempt to gain compliance. Short commands might include "Stop," or "Don't move." (Pretty sure before he flipped off the 5.0, verbal commands were used by the LEO's and his passengers. Comments would have been "WTF are you doing?" or along those lines.
Empty-Hand Control — Officers use bodily force to gain control of a situation. (This was used prior to the video)
Soft technique. Officers use grabs, holds and joint locks to restrain an individual.
Hard technique. Officers use punches and kicks to restrain an individual.
Less-Lethal Methods — Officers use less-lethal technologies to gain control of a situation. (This was used to no effect as well as Empty-Hand)
Blunt impact. Officers may use a baton or projectile to immobilize a combative person. (Oh he was combative and charged Officers a couple of times and LEO's aren't too receptive of that. They also tried a couple of times to hog tie him and finally succeeded)
Chemical. Officers may use chemical sprays or projectiles embedded with chemicals to restrain an individual (e.g., pepper spray). (I have never seen a report or heard of this being used, but it wouldn't have mattered)
Conducted Energy Devices (CEDs). Officers may use CEDs to immobilize an individual. CEDs discharge a high-voltage, low-amperage jolt of electricity at a distance. (I doubt the tazers back then were as quality as they are today. Also, they are still know to be fickle at times.)
The only thing left is to use Lethal Force. So are you implying they shouldn't have holstered weapons? ;)
Fast forward from 1993 to the present. Convicted of DUI, running into his wife with a car, a couple more Reckless Driving charges and even another DUI in 2003, after he ran a red light, refused to pull over (there seems to be a pattern here) and ran into a house IIRC. In 2011, he was cited for Driving without a License and later skipped the hearing, so that was added to him being arrested for Reckless Driving in 2012. He drowned after a night of drinking, snorting blow and puffing weed. No sympathy for him here.
I am trying to wonder what angle you are looking for here? Comparing Rodney King to the video from the OP, is pointless and a straw man reach at best. Portions of a City were burned and Reginald Denny took a brick to his head point blank, all because a drunken idiot resisted arrest after breaking countless Misdemeanors and a couple of Felonies in one night. "Use of Force Continuum" is your hill to die on? :rofl
Semp. Correct and Thank you. Three Veterans and myself questioned the authenticity. Valid points were made/discussed, some went at length and in great detail. If the video IS real, then I apologize.
Whoa there big fella... first off my point about the King video was plain and simple: the video we were shown by the media did not tell the entire story. That is it. Same goes for the soldier's video. Please to not draw any other conclusions and certainly do not assume anything. I mentioned the continuum simply to make a statement of fact that pain compliance is what the media (and most viewers) would describe as beating King to within an inch of his life and that is hard to do when the blows are to the legs. Again, point being is that the video does not tell the entire story.
As for your grandeur speech on the Force Continuum and how it relates to King, his charges/convictions, that situation, the video, etc,.... If I need to spell it out for you I was partially defending the COPs that night because outside of Koon's continued PR24 barrage once King was confined to the ground they did things by the book. They used OC spray, it didn't work. They had guns drawn on him, it didn't work. They tried the stun gun (you termed it tazer but that wasn't available until the late 1990's), that didn't work. Using the PR24 was the next in line in their bag of tricks, and that ultimately did not work. Also, for what it is worth I wore the star of a deputy for 6 years (2001-2007) and spent more time in classes regarding the use of force the the continuum than I remember. It all blurs together. I'm well versed in where and how it begins, ends, and resets. I'm certainly not defending King in any way.
Oh, and stop using Wikipedia as your major source of info. :aok
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Whoa there big fella... first off my point about the King video was plain and simple: the video we were shown by the media did not tell the entire story. That is it. Same goes for the soldier's video. Please to not draw any other conclusions and certainly do not assume anything. I mentioned the continuum simply to make a statement of fact that pain compliance is what the media (and most viewers) would describe as beating King to within an inch of his life and that is hard to do when the blows are to the legs. Again, point being is that the video does not tell the entire story.
As for your grandeur speech on the Force Continuum and how it relates to King, his charges/convictions, that situation, the video, etc,.... If I need to spell it out for you I was partially defending the COPs that night because outside of Koon's continued PR24 barrage once King was confined to the ground they did things by the book. They used OC spray, it didn't work. They had guns drawn on him, it didn't work. They tried the stun gun (you termed it tazer but that wasn't available until the late 1990's), that didn't work. Using the PR24 was the next in line in their bag of tricks, and that ultimately did not work. Also, for what it is worth I wore the star of a deputy for 6 years (2001-2007) and spent more time in classes regarding the use of force the the continuum than I remember. It all blurs together. I'm well versed in where and how it begins, ends, and resets. I'm certainly not defending King in any way.
Oh, and stop using Wikipedia as your major source of info. :aok
Never used Wiki. Former CJ major, it is ingrained. :aok
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Well smokinloon mistakes can be made by looking at a video. For example you claim that rodney could not have been killed because he was only hit in the legs however in reality he was hit several times on the head and back.
Midway
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I'm guessing you mean rotoscoping, and it's pretty clear you don't know anything about it.
Thanks for the clarification.
True, I never used it by myself, but I'm just aware of this CGI technique in general.
My comment was towards SmokinLoon's "I still say no one could "edit" in the bullet impacts so very near him,..." comment.
Why a small buffs of dust are too difficult to rotoscoping, when it's possible to add a half world full of action to the films?
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Well smokinloon mistakes can be made by looking at a video. For example you claim that rodney could not have been killed because he was only hit in the legs however in reality he was hit several times on the head and back.
Midway
He also said King was on PCP. :rofl
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Well smokinloon mistakes can be made by looking at a video. For example you claim that rodney could not have been killed because he was only hit in the legs however in reality he was hit several times on the head and back.
Midway
If would have read the entire report you would have known that most of his head injuries were from him being pressed/stepped on while (pin the head and *usually* pin the body) on the ground for reasons of immobilization. They didn't used their batons on his head, he suffered no concussion or fractures to his head/skull and a PR24 would certainly have done that ease.
Trust me, you are fighting battle you cant win. Stop trying to be the White Knight and move along.
As far as the PCP goes- the toxicology reports showed that he did not not have PCP in his system, but they did show elevated levels of other such pain numbing chemicals (which ones I do not remember). King admitted to having consumed a number of illegal substances within the previous 4-5 days but PCP was not one of them. King did not respond to any of the pain compliance, hence the initial theory that he was high on PCP. During the trial more than one person testified that King may have not felt a thing thanks to the multiple chemicals he had in his body. The parallels of alcohol and tranquilizers were made. PCP was a term thrown around in comparison, my bad for using it directly.
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That Looked not very Coordinadet ,IM going down Hill thats not Teamwork
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If would have read the entire report you would have known that most of his head injuries were from him being pressed/stepped on while (pin the head and *usually* pin the body) on the ground for reasons of immobilization. They didn't used their batons on his head, he suffered no concussion or fractures to his head/skull and a PR24 would certainly have done that ease.
Trust me, you are fighting battle you cant win. Stop trying to be the White Knight and move along.
Those guys got railroaded. Thanks also to old man Bush for that one. So a lifelong felon gets millions of the taxpayers $$ and finally drinks and snorts himself to death with it. Only in America.
To the subject. Its very hard to know what happened watching a helmet vid cam. To begin with with soldiers arent trained to automatically duck and wait out gun fire. They deploy towards it in order to take out the enemy. But every situation is different and who knows what actually happened there? "If", and I say "If" the guy wanted his Kodak moment and exposed himself for the footage then he no doubt regretted it after getting hit. But nobody knows except those there.
Strange but a video doesn't capture the sound of actually having a high power weapon fired AT you. Its far different then hearing one at a range towards your side. I guess only the human ear can really capture what its like to have someone trying to shoot you. Its not a pleasant experience.
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Those guys got railroaded. Thanks also to old man Bush for that one. So a lifelong felon gets millions of the taxpayers $$ and finally drinks and snorts himself to death with it. Only in America.
To the subject. Its very hard to know what happened watching a helmet vid cam. To begin with with soldiers arent trained to automatically duck and wait out gun fire. They deploy towards it in order to take out the enemy. But every situation is different and who knows what actually happened there? "If", and I say "If" the guy wanted his Kodak moment and exposed himself for the footage then he no doubt regretted it after getting hit. But nobody knows except those there.
Strange but a video doesn't capture the sound of actually having a high power weapon fired AT you. Its far different then hearing one at a range towards your side. I guess only the human ear can really capture what its like to have someone trying to shoot you. Its not a pleasant experience.
Really?
Reaction to Effective Enemy Fire : Dash, Down, Crawl, Observe, Sights, Fire. Maybe he didn't think the fire was effective although bullets round your feet is usually a good indication.
It is definitely possible to hear the difference, even on recorded footage, but then we don't know the range or the type of weapon used, you could however make a comfortable bet at a certain ubiquitous Soviet Block weapon. Which would suggest pretty damn close, within 4-600 m. Further with an RPK or even a Degtyaryev.
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If would have read the entire report you would have known that most of his head injuries were from him being pressed/stepped on while (pin the head and *usually* pin the body) on the ground for reasons of immobilization. They didn't used their batons on his head, he suffered no concussion or fractures to his head/skull and a PR24 would certainly have done that ease.
Trust me, you are fighting battle you cant win. Stop trying to be the White Knight and move along.
As far as the PCP goes- the toxicology reports showed that he did not not have PCP in his system, but they did show elevated levels of other such pain numbing chemicals (which ones I do not remember). King admitted to having consumed a number of illegal substances within the previous 4-5 days but PCP was not one of them. King did not respond to any of the pain compliance, hence the initial theory that he was high on PCP. During the trial more than one person testified that King may have not felt a thing thanks to the multiple chemicals he had in his body. The parallels of alcohol and tranquilizers were made. PCP was a term thrown around in comparison, my bad for using it directly.
See that is the reality people can look at a video and reach different conclusions. I can clearly see him getting hit on the head at least 10 times, you don't and yet we are looking at the same video.
As for the soldiers video, bullets hitting nearby, well look at saving pv Ryan it's not difficult to create the same effect as for sounds, bullets hitting nearby is easy to make. Add the fact that the guy who uploaded it didnt bother to reply when asked about the video. Well it turns out later that it was not fake well basically great, and that's it.
Midway
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I bet this guy is well liked in his squad. He has the great idea of walking down the hill exposing himself to any enemy fire possible 'to draw fire from the rest of the team'. Then he gets tagged and calls for the rest of his team to rescue him, effectively getting the exact opposite effect.
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Really?
Reaction to Effective Enemy Fire : Dash, Down, Crawl, Observe, Sights, Fire. Maybe he didn't think the fire was effective although bullets round your feet is usually a good indication.
They "access". They might even get an order to attack into the teeth of it. Of course your immediate reaction should be to find cover but theres no way to know what was actually going on in that video. People can do strange things when under fire.
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They "access". They might even get an order to attack into the teeth of it. Of course your immediate reaction should be to find cover but theres no way to know what was actually going on in that video. People can do strange things when under fire.
In my limited experience the strange result is immediately trying to dig shell scrapes with my eyelids :confused:
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See that is the reality people can look at a video and reach different conclusions. I can clearly see him getting hit on the head at least 10 times, you don't and yet we are looking at the same video.
Well, SmokinLoon is an LEO or ex-LEO
Those guys see things differently from regular folks
For example, they can see a securely handcuffed person wriggling around on the ground and think that they are enough of a threat to need to be shot or tased
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Well, SmokinLoon is an LEO or ex-LEO
Those guys see things differently from regular folks
For example, they can see a securely handcuffed person wriggling around on the ground and think that they are enough of a threat to need to be shot or tased
If I saw someone hwiggling aroundf on the ground after I told them to stay still and kNoing they could be taking something out of a pockket yeah I would be concerend aswell.
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Well, SmokinLoon is an LEO or ex-LEO
Those guys see things differently from regular folks
For example, they can see a securely handcuffed person wriggling around on the ground and think that they are enough of a threat to need to be shot or tased
Ex-LEO, deputy sheriff to be exact. And no, not hardly do I see the world differently than regular folks. Don't be so liberal and over-generalize, that isn't right. :aok But, I will admit I did hit a guy in the head with my 16in Asp baton. I was aiming for his arm when he put up his arm to deflect but it was under my swing. The result was my baton glancing off his shoulder and hitting him the side of his head. Needless to say he dropped to his knees and put his hands up immediately. No concussion and just a wee bit of blood, but swelling the size of a goose egg. With that information, lets see what conclusions you and the other analyst can draw regarding that occurrence, shall we? ;)
*hands hook back to coombzy*
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Found this on the "Phil DeFranco" show
Not sure if you've seen this but Holy Crap :O
Is this guy a hero or an idiot? <Not my words>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLHU-_OhT8g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLHU-_OhT8g)
IDIOT
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I will admit I did hit a guy in the head with my 16in Asp baton. I was aiming for his arm when he put up his arm to deflect but it was under my swing. The result was my baton glancing off his shoulder and hitting him the side of his head. Needless to say he dropped to his knees and put his hands up immediately. No concussion and just a wee bit of blood, but swelling the size of a goose egg. With that information, lets see what conclusions you and the other analyst can draw regarding that occurrence, shall we? ;)
*hands hook back to coombzy*
Cool story...but I'm not really sure what (if anything) it has to do with you saying you can watch a video of someone clearly being hit in the head multiple times, and come back with 'If you read the report you can see that his head injuries just came from being stepped on while they immobilised him' :bhead
It's not really surprising, as I have seen LEOs on other forums write pages and pages attempting to justify and excuse police brutality. Not surprising, just kind of disgusting.
Luckily the increasingly widespread use of handheld media recorders and dashboard cams is doing a great job at bringing those kinds of incidents to light these days.
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If would have read the entire report you would have known that most of his head injuries were from him being pressed/stepped on while (pin the head and *usually* pin the body) on the ground for reasons of immobilization. They didn't used their batons on his head, he suffered no concussion or fractures to his head/skull and a PR24 would certainly have done that ease.
Trust me, you are fighting battle you cant win. Stop trying to be the White Knight and move along.
As far as the PCP goes- the toxicology reports showed that he did not not have PCP in his system, but they did show elevated levels of other such pain numbing chemicals (which ones I do not remember). King admitted to having consumed a number of illegal substances within the previous 4-5 days but PCP was not one of them. King did not respond to any of the pain compliance, hence the initial theory that he was high on PCP. During the trial more than one person testified that King may have not felt a thing thanks to the multiple chemicals he had in his body. The parallels of alcohol and tranquilizers were made. PCP was a term thrown around in comparison, my bad for using it directly.
You are assuming I knew none of this. You were wrong. He was never on PCP, like my non-Wiki'd post said. That night he was drunk, that was it. It is funny to others that you are trying to glamorize the facts that anyone can read. :rofl
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You are assuming I knew none of this. You were wrong. He was never on PCP, like my non-Wiki'd post said. That night he was drunk, that was it. It is funny to others that you are trying to glamorize the facts that anyone can read. :rofl
No one is glamorizing anything, 'cept you and coombzy trying to blow your own trumpets. The fact remains that I've watched the entire video multiple times, listened to prosecutors and defenders point fingers and debate the merits of their side (with the luxury of hindsight), and I've seen the official reports of the incident including how everything pertains to *then* CA and federal law. Drunk or high or superman, it doesn't matter. He was not responding to the pain compliance and that is what got the COPs in trouble. How much longer do you want to keep swinging your purses on an issue you're really not even vouching for or against???
Coombzy... nothing needs to be said about you. Your record of being an extreme lefty and anti-everything that isn't left is well documented in these forums. You need to learn that just because you don't like something does not mean it is wrong, and that your view and your definition are not necessarily right. Your opinion is just that. Keep smoking your self righteousness.
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I dont know whats sillier. The fact that were listening to a New Zealander about American Police work or the fact that he is even talking about it, and doing so as if an expert. Slow news day in Wellington I suppose.
Cool story...but I'm not really sure what (if anything) it has to do with you saying you can watch a video of someone clearly being hit in the head multiple times, and come back with 'If you read the report you can see that his head injuries just came from being stepped on while they immobilised him' :bhead
It's not really surprising, as I have seen LEOs on other forums write pages and pages attempting to justify and excuse police brutality. Not surprising, just kind of disgusting.
Luckily the increasingly widespread use of handheld media recorders and dashboard cams is doing a great job at bringing those kinds of incidents to light these days.
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No one is glamorizing anything, 'cept you and coombzy trying to blow your own trumpets. The fact remains that I've watched the entire video multiple times, listened to prosecutors and defenders point fingers and debate the merits of their side (with the luxury of hindsight), and I've seen the official reports of the incident including how everything pertains to *then* CA and federal law. Drunk or high or superman, it doesn't matter. He was not responding to the pain compliance and that is what got the COPs in trouble. How much longer do you want to keep swinging your purses on an issue you're really not even vouching for or against???
Coombzy... nothing needs to be said about you. Your record of being an extreme lefty and anti-everything that isn't left is well documented in these forums. You need to learn that just because you don't like something does not mean it is wrong, and that your view and your definition are not necessarily right. Your opinion is just that. Keep smoking your self righteousness.
I love it when you call it "pain compliance" instead of they beat the crap out of him after a point when they should have stopped. you know what is missing in the video? the charge of filing a false police report, but whatever, it's done and over with.
midway
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I'd kind of like to know what the last couple pages have to do with a video allegedly from afghanistan? It's not like these self proclaimed experts can't start their own thread to expound on something they have no experience in.
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I'd kind of like to know what the last couple pages have to do with a video allegedly from afghanistan? It's not like these self proclaimed experts can't start their own thread to expound on something they have no experience in.
Talk to Loon.
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Talk to Loon.
talk to 'brum.
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@SmokinLoon
"I still say no one could "edit" in the bullet impacts so very near him,..."
Please, back up this...
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I'd kind of like to know what the last couple pages have to do with a video allegedly from afghanistan? It's not like these self proclaimed experts can't start their own thread to expound on something they have no experience in.
it has to do with people looking at a video and reaching different conclusions based on their own right/wrong assumptions.
midway
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(http://www.bfranklincrafts.com/Images/BeadsM-PerfectEnd-ThreadBurner.jpg)
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it has to do with people looking at a video and reaching different conclusions based on their own right/wrong assumptions.
midway
You are making another assumption. Thinking that any video you see broadcast by the media is the entire unedited video showing the entire situation. I have no confidence that the media is telling the truth, much less the entire story on any video or news "story" they publish. They have been caught too many times slanting, distorting or out right lying in their presentations. I've seen it in action too many times including places and situations where I was present.
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talk to 'brum.
Your words from Page 9.
*leg humps guncrasher* Relax. Don't take it so personal. :)
Based on the information that was available passing judgement on this infantryman is the last thing any of us should have done. I neither supported or dogged him for what he did because coming from a LEO background I KNOW there are things that video does not show or explain and that people will pick and choose what to see and not see unless there is absolute commentary from the author. Even if the author would have lost his life I would have not called this fake for the reason I've already mentioned. I just get a kick out of the people who are so quick with the judgements when they have little or no experience with maneuvers, firearms, etc, and they judge so quickly with nothing to stand on. I'm not pointing to anyone here in specific, that is just a general statement.
Has anyone else seen the entire Rodney King video? Does anyone know what the Use of Force guidelines and laws were in CA at that time?
Not semp's, not mine...
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You are making another assumption. Thinking that any video you see broadcast by the media is the entire unedited video showing the entire situation. I have no confidence that the media is telling the truth, much less the entire story on any video or news "story" they publish. They have been caught too many times slanting, distorting or out right lying in their presentations. I've seen it in action too many times including places and situations where I was present.
so you mean the video of the soldier running down the hill was edited to mislead? where is your evidence since we dont really know where the original is kept?
and btw the only assumption I made was that 2 people can look at a video, any video, and reach different conclusions. for example smokinloon claim that rodney was throwing officers around "like rag dolls" which is an outright lie based on the fact that 2 officers tripped on each other. he also states that king didnt get hit on the head while I clearly see him getting hit many times with blows directly to the neck and head.
I am not trying to re-investigate the entire incident but more trying to prove that people look at things in a different way as in the case of that soldier running down the hill. people look at that video and some will see it as a fake and some others will see it as real based on whatever misconceptions they had. they reasons why it was a fake/not fake had been discussed to death. now a few months later the soldier comes forward and says the video is real. so it is real and that is that.
midway
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Gun crasher I was referring to the king video hack job as far as media bias is concerned. It ties in with my question about what the bearing of the sidetracking in the thread had to do with the original subject matter. If you have a question about anything I mean in a post feel free to ask. Do not put your assumptions as the answer.
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so you mean the video of the soldier running down the hill was edited to mislead? where is your evidence since we dont really know where the original is kept?
and btw the only assumption I made was that 2 people can look at a video, any video, and reach different conclusions. for example smokinloon claim that rodney was throwing officers around "like rag dolls" which is an outright lie based on the fact that 2 officers tripped on each other. he also states that king didnt get hit on the head while I clearly see him getting hit many times with blows directly to the neck and head.
I am not trying to re-investigate the entire incident but more trying to prove that people look at things in a different way as in the case of that soldier running down the hill. people look at that video and some will see it as a fake and some others will see it as real based on whatever misconceptions they had. they reasons why it was a fake/not fake had been discussed to death. now a few months later the soldier comes forward and says the video is real. so it is real and that is that.
midway
You have not seen the entire video, and hold fast your tongue when you claim someone is telling a lie.
That is/was my entire point about videos. A person can easily make judgements based on the story told with the video, AND more so that fact that the entire video is not shown.
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You have not seen the entire video, and hold fast your tongue when you claim someone is telling a lie.
That is/was my entire point about videos. A person can easily make judgements based on the story told with the video, AND more so that fact that the entire video is not shown.
I just posted the link to the entire video. and also it is a lie that king was throwing officers around like rag dolls. also king throwing officers around like rag dolls would have been cause to use deadly force and it would have been proper. the court papers have been available for a long time so please post a link to a court document where the officers claim that king was throwing them around like rag dolls. btw this is a double dare. this has been proven a lie many times over.
there is always people who claim the entire video wasnt shown because they refuse to believe that the entire video was already shown. I saw the entire video then the shorten version where they cut off the beginning which is basically useless because they guy was trying to focus the camera. but please do keep claiming that you are the only one that has seen the entire video.
midway
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I just posted the link to the entire video. and also it is a lie that king was throwing officers around like rag dolls. also king throwing officers around like rag dolls would have been cause to use deadly force and it would have been proper. the court papers have been available for a long time so please post a link to a court document where the officers claim that king was throwing them around like rag dolls. btw this is a double dare. this has been proven a lie many times over.
there is always people who claim the entire video wasnt shown because they refuse to believe that the entire video was already shown. I saw the entire video then the shorten version where they cut off the beginning which is basically useless because they guy was trying to focus the camera. but please do keep claiming that you are the only one that has seen the entire video.
midway
I do not see a link posted by you. However, I did a search and I could not find the full version. As usual, people are posting the "full video" online and yes there is about 2:00 to 2:30 min cut out. The "full video" being shown begins where the officers go full samurai with their PR24's, and not the one officer being lifted up and bent backwards over the hood of the squad car. Mind you, I'm not defending the COPs, I simply saying that until the entire video is shown and the entire facts are laid out there is a lot to be left to drama. I'm not the only one to have seen the entire video, there were at least another 40-60 LEO's in the classes I attended on the use of force that watched it. It is out there somewhere on the interwebs, I'll keep searching. You do the same and let us all know when you find it.
Also, King physically engaging the officers via "hands on" is NOT a cause to use deadly force, especially with that number of officers present. I'm willing to bet that CA's "Use of Force" laws mention an end game something to the effect of "... lethal force used by another reasonable and prudent person or persons under the same circumstance", and/or "... if the individual feels their own life or the life of another is in imminent danger". There is no action in specific that automatically dictate the use of lethal force. If severely disabled G'ma is sitting in her wheel chair with a loaded 12 ga shotgun across her lap and she cant even lift the gun up, does that constitute lethal force? Does a 110 lb naked hood rat doped up on bath salts with bloody hands and blood all over his face (and nothing in his hands) warrant the use of deadly force as he screams and lunges for the 240 lb body builder of a COP? The examples are endless, and hence the "... like other reasonable and prudent person(s)" nomenclature.
EDIT: The following will help show what I am referring to. Notice how the "Justice Dept" video starts right as the COPs are swinging away with the PR24's, do you really think they all just converged there and hopped out and started swinging? Trust me they did not. There is at least 2 minutes of footage out there and if I have to go chat with the detective that shown the entire vid to the class I will. Ultimately, I don't care who does or does not my position. I understand the positions of those who bandwagon and like to play the white knight. Again, the only point I was trying to make was in reference to the video of the soldier not showing the entire story and anything and everything any one of us said about it was all speculation, I just had a hard time with people saying it was fake when there was a lot of evidence showing otherwise, I was at least willing to NOT go the route of crucifying the soldier for reasons none of knew.
Here is the video of the media's (and midway's) view: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OauOPTwbqk
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EDIT: Notice how the "Justice Dept" video starts right as the COPs are swinging away with the PR24's, do you really think they all just converged there and hopped out and started swinging? Trust me they did not. There is at least 2 minutes of footage out there...
Here is the video of the media's (and midway's) view: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OauOPTwbqk
no they start there because that's where the guys started filming. there was nothing cut off from that video, but if you cant find a link to the full video then please post a link to the court documents where it shows how rodney went full ninja throwing officers over the cars.
and throwing an officer over his car is more than enough to justify the officer fearing for his safety as it can easy kill him. as for the other situations, well we are talking about rodney king only.
you know why they started saying there's 2 minutes missing from the tape? because of the clock on that video, look at the second one and it starts at 3 minutes and some seconds, so the rumor started that there was some missing tape out there. but never has been. but seen you have seen the court documents then you would know that transcrips of that tape is also available and rodney was never mentioned as throwing cops around "like rag dolls".
btw why is it that the report from the chp did mention rodney throwing cops around? and why was that info removed from the original report filed by some of the officers? oh that is correct because it was not accurate, that is why they also got charged with filing a false police report.
midway
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why do you even try to argue with this scumbag semp?
as I said on the previous page his type will endlessly try to justify police brutality until they are blue in the face
in SmokinLoon's case he's barely even making any sense and keeps wandering off topic into things that are totally irrelevant to what you posted. Thankfully not all cops are as stupid and morally bankrupt as this joker.
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It is sometime difficult for people to understand that some brutality is necessary for police to do their job.
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I saw what I believe to be the entire video when I was at PTC Ryton. It was used as a demonstration of potential public reaction to the actions of police in such a situation. The footage included the police pursuit, and also the ramping up of the police response to Kings initial lack of response to verbal commands, right up to the final bit of footage where it has escalated into a situation where the use of force seems disproportionate. The whole build up however, which is not shown in any of these links, gives a good indication of how the situation developed, predominantly because the implementation of force was initially insufficicient to control the apparently very strong and completely uncommunicative and combative subject
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This is awesome!
Please continue :aok
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why do you even try to argue with this scumbag semp?
as I said on the previous page his type will endlessly try to justify police brutality until they are blue in the face
in SmokinLoon's case he's barely even making any sense and keeps wandering off topic into things that are totally irrelevant to what you posted. Thankfully not all cops are as stupid and morally bankrupt as this joker.
Coombz you are sounding more and more foolish by the second. You never did this job. You never chased anyone at high speeds. Been in shoots. You never had to take a violent offender into custody. It doesnt matter the right or wrong of things, in the mini-thread that has nothing to do with the real thread. Either way you have no experience to back up your mouth. Hell, your not even American. Why your obsession? I highly doubt you have such a dangerous criminal sub culture down there in sheepLand so why do you even care?
Ive done all of the above many times in the last 30 years and you dont see me blubbering about it. Or judging anyone. Except for you that is. Here http://www.nzherald.co.nz/wellington-region/news/headlines.cfm?l_id=153 Just move on. NZ is not the 51'st State in the Union.
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This is awesome!
Please continue :aok
I know :rolleyes:
and still not 1 of them has enough cajones to say they were wrong....where is that troll bait nathen donutnecker now....munchin used napkins prolly!
I just wonder if all of you watched the second video posted in the same link by stealth.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/soldier_describes_firefight_after_GonI2RmhT2T2LlVfrWgSxL (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/soldier_describes_firefight_after_GonI2RmhT2T2LlVfrWgSxL)
Anyway,
<S> to that young soldier.
He made a techno mistake posting the video. I'm sure he has had his bell rung more than enough about it.