Author Topic: Training Arena etiqette  (Read 10212 times)

Offline Voss

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Training Arena etiqette
« Reply #60 on: April 25, 2000, 01:24:00 AM »
This thread began with the legitimate complaints of a customer who is "helping" beginners learn and love AH.

The thread degraded into personal attacks?

As a result I have lost a squaddie and one of the best wings I have ever seen.

I am not happy.

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Offline Nash

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« Reply #61 on: April 25, 2000, 02:49:00 AM »
Voss I won't get into this too deeply as I respect you and have had many a good time flying with/against you in the MA.

WW, for whatever reason is blowing this whole thing completely out of context. There it is.

I'm sorry you lost a wingman. He said he's only been in AH fer one and a half weeks... is this correct? Anyways, yes, it's unfortunate. But his problems do not accurately reflect the situation in the TA.

I'm sorry it lead to his leaving, but - and this is just my take on it - he would have found *some* reason for getting upset, over something, with the same result. It happened to be the TA.

You should actually frequent the TA some. I know the newer folk would love for you to share your experience/knowledge with them.

Offline Voss

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« Reply #62 on: April 25, 2000, 03:33:00 AM »
Please, take this at face value, and not as a podium discussion...

I see this as human nature, Nash. Machismo gets in our way a lot, too. I have never been in the TA, except to check the roster. It may be a good idea for me to do so.

WW has only been known to me for a week or so. He'll get over this, I'm sure. Look at the incident as cause and effect. WW saw something he really liked (AH) and tried to share his god-given-talent with some newcomers (perhaps personal friends). Frustrated in his efforts he posts about his experience, and is not well received. Further, the topic degrades into personal attacks.

It's not HTC's fault, it's not your fault. It's human nature and inevitable.

The written word is imprecise, at best, in conveying our feelings. Someone you would otherwise like can piss a reader off just by using a few too many negatives. I can see a newcomer getting really frustrated, and leaving the online flight realm after being berated by guys that live on high protein diets and air combat. I can see it very easily. I expect it to happen again. But, it doesn't belong under the heading "Help and Training" and should have been handled differently.

I respect you all in the air   and will be more then happy to fly with/against you anytime.

This thread did not make me happy, however. I hope we can learn from it and move on.

And, Nash, I am not holding you responsible, I don't disagree with you entirely, and I did not answer you to attack you, specifically. I just wanted to make my position clearer.

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Offline Voss

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« Reply #63 on: April 25, 2000, 03:39:00 AM »
Oh, and my wingman is Rude, and has been for "years."  

As C.O. I check out every recruit. WW has a natural talent as a wingman. That is very rare in itself. If, he returns to us, he will become *very* scarey.

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Offline crabofix

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« Reply #64 on: April 25, 2000, 07:40:00 AM »

Just one thing to say about this:
"WELCOME TO THE MUPPETSHOW!!!!"

BORK,BORK,BORK!!!
Crabofix "yes, fishslaps hurts"

Offline humble

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« Reply #65 on: April 25, 2000, 10:24:00 AM »
Voss,

As far as I'm concerned the only personal attack's in this thread came from WW. I'm sorry to see anyone leave AH...even WW...and he did hit on some real issue's. But he blew them out of proportion and painted a very misleading picture...as for his ability as a wing..or any other part of a plane..only time would tell that..but he had the potential for sure.

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline WW

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« Reply #66 on: April 25, 2000, 12:31:00 PM »
My first hour in the TA I see Kieren telling people, "Ask before you attack". My First HOUR! I was over A25 (I think it was) at the time which was the base I came out in. What you are all now calling the FFA base.

Ever wonder Nash, Hmble, why I asked before I attacked. This would be why.

So, how many people do that in the TA at A1?

So you see an FFA base and I'm told, "Ask before you attack".

Why do I see an ettiquette problem?


Twisting words:
In this thread, Hmble talks about getting killed alot in the AWIII Newbie arena by vets. In the other thread Hmble talks about AWIII having a training arena where there was no one to practice with and makes a reference to AWIII not having anything like the FFA here. I quote the two statements in a post and I'm twisting words.

In the beginning of this thread, Hmble doesn;t see a problem. When Weasel looses it, Hmble admits there may be a problem and suggests baring easymo. Soon as Nash starts in on me, Hmble says I'm blowing things out of proportion.

This whole thing started cause I Asked if I could attack Hmble and Av8tr shot me down. Hmble says it was a joke, fine! Wiz complains that Nash has been shooting him on the runway, "Several times" as he put it to me. When Nash starts in on me, Hmble and Av8r all join in like a team. All three see me as a whiner or trouble maker.

Only trouble I've caused so far is to raise questions people didn't want raised, point out what they themselves said and take 2 accounts away from HTC which pleased Nash, Hmble & av8tr no end.

Offline LuckyDay

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« Reply #67 on: April 25, 2000, 12:44:00 PM »
When I was a boy, we didn't HAVE a training arena.  We had to tie ourselves to one of the vets planes and be dragged around the arena flapping our arms until we understood ACM.  We didn't have auto takeoff... or P38s..., and until we understood the mystery of torque (not Torque) we took off in clockwise circles...

we ate nails and glass shards for breakfast and walked 6 miles to school uphill in snow barefoot

..and we liked it.

   

[This message has been edited by LuckyDay (edited 04-25-2000).]

[This message has been edited by LuckyDay (edited 04-25-2000).]

Offline Sharky

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Training Arena etiqette
« Reply #68 on: April 25, 2000, 01:05:00 PM »
Luckyday,

 
Quote
When I was a boy, we didn't HAVE a training arena. We had to tie ourselves to one of the vets planes and be dragged around the arena flapping our arms until we understood ACM. We didn't have auto takeoff... or P38s..., and until we understood the mystery of torque (not Torque) we took off in clockwise circles...
we ate nails and glass shards for breakfast and walked 6 miles to school uphill in snow barefoot

..and we liked it.

Wuss  

Sharky


Offline Nash

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« Reply #69 on: April 25, 2000, 01:47:00 PM »
PLEASE - Will you stop saying that Wiz says I killed him multiple times trying to take off? You state this like it's fact. It's just not true. Have Wiz come speak on it if he wants. I don't ever remember seeing him, and give me some some credit here - vulchin' newbies is not only lame, it's boring to the extreme. I get my kicks elswhere thanks you very much.

Now. The only reason I even got involved in this thread and 'started in on you' was because of your accusations. I'm just glad I even *found* this thread, lest be perceived as some kinda vulchin' dweeb by anyone who takes what you say at face value.

You brought this on yourself, my friend.

And seriously. Grow some skin, or something. I mean, I've been killed a number of times on the runway by rookies who honestly do not know any better. A quick "hey man - that aint cool" does the trick almost 100% of the time. Why you have turned this into some huge issue is beyond me. Like I said earlier, you really oughtta lighten up a bit.

Offline WizOfClay

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« Reply #70 on: April 25, 2000, 05:00:00 PM »
Ok Nash... Here I am and not because WW has asked to prove his point or defend him, and not even to accuse, blame or single you out... I'm here on my own accord to give my two cents into this discussion.

First of all, WW was only stating the facts as I have mentioned to him through my own observations in my 1 week in the "Training/FFA" arena.  Yes, you have shot me down several times while I was flying around minding my own business and yes I do recall you shooting me down once either during my take-off, or just as I was clearing the run way or even when I was trying to practice landing (that was before I knew about the ".move" command).  Now I'm bad with names and don't remember everyone who has shot me down on field 1, but your name was one of the easier names for me to remember since you've shot me down so many times...  the reason you might not remember me is because you fly with plane-type icons...
Now that I know that field 1 is designated as an FFA, I'll try to stay clear of that field if I want to practice anything...  however I do have one question for you and for the others that like the FFA.  There are times that I get bored practicing by myself and would like to just take some time off to fly around the FFA and just observe the battles going on.  Can anyone suggest a way for me to do that without getting shot down?  If I try to request emmunity to the battles going on, will you guys honor my request so that I may be able to fly around in peace?

Again Nash, I hope that you don't think I'm singling you out or anything, and if I've offended you in anyway, please accept my sincere appologies as this was not my intention.

Offline Kieren

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« Reply #71 on: April 25, 2000, 05:17:00 PM »
Here's what I do; I take the time to climb away from the fight, get high (say 15-20K) and circle around the fight. 95% of the time no one will try to climb to me, as it would be foolish to attack a higher con (and since I am in the 202, they aren't going to outturn me when they get there  ). If someone should get near, you can broadcast on country channel:

"P38 making low approach on high SpitV over A1, please, I'm observing"

You might find that will work for most. If it doesn't you have plenty of room to extend or turn and kill it. I won't guarantee this will spare you from everyone, but it will do it for most. Heck, most of the guys want to mix it as quickly as possible, so will show little interest in you at that height.

Offline Azrael

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« Reply #72 on: April 25, 2000, 05:25:00 PM »
Also, if the fight is low around the field (what I assume, I am no TA regular and when I'm there I mind my own business in another corner), you can use either external view (F3) plus pan view (F8) or pan view (F8) together with the head movement keys (cursor, pgup, pgdn, numpad numbers) to have a look around from the tower.

Az

   
II.(K)/JG2

Offline Nash

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« Reply #73 on: April 25, 2000, 05:48:00 PM »
No worries Wiz. That didn't offend me in the least. It's actually quite nice to finally hear from you. And I appreciate both your candor as well as the difficulty you faced at the FFA field.

As far as shooting you down on the runway, even the one time, it's not even a question of jogging my memory to come up with the name of the person I did this to. ie. "Let's see, was it Wiz I shot down on the runway?". I just have never done this...  it's so not my style. But I realize that names, events can be confusing in an FFA environment when you're just getting your bearings.

Oops hang on - I just reread your post. You say you can't remember if the time I shot you was when you were taking off, just clearing the runway, or comming in for a landing. In that case - it's *possible* I might have shot ya when you were on final. Sometimes the fur moves perty close to the field, and though it is easy to tell who is rollin' down the runway taking off, it's a bit trickier when someone's already airborne and coming in for a landing.

But what you have described is far far diffirent than WW's *constant* mutterings about me shooting you down "multiple times on the runway". You paint quite a different picture, and I've come to expect this sort of distortion from him.

As far as shooting you multiple times while you were minding my own business - I'm no doubt guilty as charged. You've got to understand, Wiz, that when planes are everywhere, firing this way and that way, it becomes difficult, nay, next to *impossible* to distinguish between an 'observer' and a threat.

I really hate to be the source of trouble for anyone, especially someone new to AH or flight sims in general. Please accept my apology, and I will at least *try* to avoid you if you say you don't want to be fired at.

But that's no guarantee you will be left alone to watch the fights in peace. I guess one suggestion is for you to get a bit of altitude. The fights wind down to ground level very quickly. If you stay high and keep a bit of distance, you will probably be safe.

Also, don't be afraid to dive into the fight! It's a blast Wiz! Just jump in with both feet and start trying out different styles of fighting. Death aint a big deal like it is in the MA. Ya just up again, and the fights only 2 minutes away.

Anyways, I hope your experience in the TA wasn't bad enough to the extent that you have misgivings about returning to it (you arent one of the guys who closed their account with WW are ya?). I'd love to see ya back there, and if there's anything I or any of the trainers (or heck - *anyone* - the guys in the TA are top notch) can do to help ya, just holler.

Cheers  

Offline RAM

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« Reply #74 on: April 26, 2000, 08:18:00 AM »
My god...what a mess...

Well I want to give one or two thinks here. Why do I go to TA?...well I go for a fight. Mostly to calm down from some hard heating in MA. So I go in, I take off and I ask someone to fite.

ALWAYS...I repeat...ALWAYS ends in a all for all mess. Not because me, but for some experienced guys that come for it...AND BECAUSE MANY NEWBIES TRY TO KILL YOU EVERY TIME!...

I always try to enforce the use of the warning ("in") before attacking. The results are always sad ones, many new guys keep on attacking people regardless what you told them...and excuse me, but then I go for em and I kill em.

If the thing goes ok, then I keep on fiting people, and nearly 100% time I end fighting with some new guy that in the merge flat turns,or spilt S... so I ask him if he is new and needs help and I start to give him some advices, help, and so.

I also help people that come in asking for help from trainers, although I'm not trainer myself. I love to help people, even in MA I've helped people even from the other countries...

And yes, there is vulching in TA, there is harrasment on TA...but MUCH of it come from newbies ,not experts. Of course I've seen everything in there...but what ussualy happens is what I've explained.

I really think that many things will be ok now there is that advice when coming into TA. New people will know what is TA for, and experienced people will get the idea of what is going on in there.

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Ram, out

Fw190D9? Ta152H1? The truth is out there
JG2 "Richthofen"

   

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 04-26-2000).]