Author Topic: 2 Norwegian coastguard inspectors kinapped (Read 5057 times)

Nilsen · « **Reply #90 on:** October 18, 2005, 09:59:42 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Jackal1
Once again ..Ummmmm Hmmmmmm. You have made my point.

what point is that?

Jackal1 · « **Reply #91 on:** October 18, 2005, 10:28:24 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nilsen
what point is that?

Quote

That boat has lost it before back in 2001.

An evident slap on the wrist which amounted to nothing in the long run.
I`m sure she was not moored for long.
The point being International law is just as good or bad as those who are involved. In some instances countries agree to such things, and follow them up to the point that it is not convinient to do so. In other words, it makes the whole thing useless and only represents a "feel good", totaly useless waste of time in the end if such countries decide to ignore them at any particular point.
Sure Russia is going to say "blah blah blah..we will take care of it" and Norwegian government will have their say also. At this point it has became one saying this, one saying that and nothing more. It will result in nothing and solve nothing. It most positively will be repeated again and will get the same or similar results......nothing.
At the point it became an "International incident", individuality or company issues were a mute point.

Estel · « **Reply #92 on:** October 18, 2005, 10:31:25 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by straffo
Estel except if you're compleltly dumb you cannot justify the kidnapping of 2 citizen especially when they didn't broke ANY law*.

Tell me, what should do the trawler captain after receiving an order to return to Murmansk? Drop inspectors in the water? Stop the trawler so it can be hijacked? Send inspectors in life boats when the waves are 6-8 meters?

Kidnapping first of all assumes presence of mercenary interest (ÛÔ my understanding). Where do you see it here? Or you think that trawler crew will ask money for them?

If you don't know, goverment has offered another way. Counter-sub vessel "TVER" can approach trawler, pickup inspectors and deliver them to Norway. But Norway denied this offer. Why they denied?

Quote

Did the Norvegian broke any Norvegian/Russian/International law ?

Yes. In 1977. When they established Spitsbergen fisherguard zone. Denying any agreements of 1935 and 1947.

Estel · « **Reply #93 on:** October 18, 2005, 10:35:24 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Vulcan
He can't, he needs to look up the answer in his Communist Party Doctrine And Standard Responses book.

I don't remember did I tell you or not. I'm not a communist. And I wasn't. But your answers sometimes looks to me standart. For some western people.

Estel · « **Reply #94 on:** October 18, 2005, 10:39:31 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wilbus
VV Nilsen. All the rights are on Norweigians side, no matter how anyone decide to twist and turn on the whole matter.

The Russian trawler broke the law by using elegal materials, they then broke the law when they kidnapping two people, Coast Guard personel non the less.

In the Nilsen's post was written, that there were equipment on the board. But never was said that it was used. I carry a gun, but it doesn't mean that I'm shooting pedestrians on the way to home.

And again about kidnapping. How can they deliver them back when the waves are 9 meters?

Nilsen · « **Reply #95 on:** October 18, 2005, 10:41:02 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Jackal1
An evident slap on the wrist which amounted to nothing in the long run.
I`m sure she was not moored for long.
The point being International law is just as good or bad as those who are involved. In some instances countries agree to such things, and follow them up to the point that it is not convinient to do so. In other words, it makes the whole thing useless and only represents a "feel good", totaly useless waste of time in the end if such countries decide to ignore them at any particular point.
Sure Russia is going to say "blah blah blah..we will take care of it" and Norwegian government will have their say also. At this point it has became one saying this, one saying that and nothing more. It will result in nothing and solve nothing. It most positively will be repeated again and will get the same or similar results......nothing.
At the point it became an "International incident", individuality or company issues were a mute point.

That "slap" on the wrist is extremly expencive. Loosing the license for even one season can be devestating.

The result will be a hefty fine and or no license to fish for the boat and maybe charges against the captain but time will tell. I doubt the Russians will protect the crew/captain/company if it is found guilty.

Nilsen · « **Reply #96 on:** October 18, 2005, 10:43:49 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Estel
In the Nilsen's post was written, that there were equipment on the board. But never was said that it was used. I carry a gun, but it doesn't mean that I'm shooting pedestrians on the way to home.

And again about kidnapping. How can they deliver them back when the waves are 9 meters?

1. It is illegal to have them onboard when fishing.

2. They could have allowed the coasties to leave the boat and the did not. That is called kidnapping.

Jackal1 · « **Reply #97 on:** October 18, 2005, 10:45:45 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nilsen
That "slap" on the wrist is extremly expencive. Loosing the license for even one season can be devestating.

And who is going to stop her from fishing?

Quote

I doubt the Russians will protect the crew/captain/company if it is found guilty.

Then the "feel good" part is bought hook, line and sinker.

Estel · « **Reply #98 on:** October 18, 2005, 10:52:44 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nilsen
1. It is illegal to have them onboard when fishing.

This is said by Norwegian illegal fisherguarding zone agreement. If you remember, this is not international document. But only local. Hence, we have not to follow these rules. We are following the international agreements of 1935 and 1947.

If to follow your way, I can deny to breath in 10 meters of my house.

Quote

2. They could have allowed the coasties to leave the boat and the did not. That is called kidnapping.

To allow them leave the ship in the storm is equal of murder.

Hangtime · « **Reply #99 on:** October 18, 2005, 11:00:48 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Estel

To allow them leave the ship in the storm is equal of murder.

It's obvious that's NOT the reason they were held on board. They are hostages for the safe passage of the trawler back to Russian controlled waters.

Estel, yer propaganda mask is slipping.

Nilsen · « **Reply #100 on:** October 18, 2005, 11:02:56 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Estel
This is said by Norwegian illegal fisherguarding zone agreement. If you remember, this is not international document. But only local. Hence, we have not to follow these rules. We are following the international agreements of 1935 and 1947.

If to follow your way, I can deny to breath in 10 meters of my house.

To allow them leave the ship in the storm is equal of murder.

1. Nope.. they have to follow it and they do or else they will get brought in and they are. period. Not even the Russian government interfers cause they have accepted it until a permanent agreement is found. That will happen within the next 4 years.

2. It is kidnapping period. Stop twisting it. It is not murder to allow someone to be hoisted of a trawler in a helo.

Nilsen · « **Reply #101 on:** October 18, 2005, 11:04:31 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Jackal1
And who is going to stop her from fishing?

Then the "feel good" part is bought hook, line and sinker.

1. Coastguard

2. say what?

Let it go jackal

Estel · « **Reply #102 on:** October 18, 2005, 11:06:57 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hangtime
It's obvious that's NOT the reason they were held on board. They are hostages for the safe passage of the trawler back to Russian controlled waters.

Estel, yer propaganda mask is slipping.

Do you use "propaganda" term only when you have nothing to answer? Or this is just a bad habit.

Estel · « **Reply #103 on:** October 18, 2005, 11:13:14 AM »

Just got last news.

Elektron is headed to White sea due to weather. There, on the water border he will meet with "Tver" and "Admiral Levchenko". After that, inspectors will be tranferred onto one of the warships. Due to agreement with Norway, inspectors will be delivered to Murmansk. After investigation they will be delivered back to the Norway.

Estel · « **Reply #104 on:** October 18, 2005, 11:17:21 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nilsen
1. Nope.. they have to follow it and they do or else they will get brought in and they are. period. Not even the Russian government interfers cause they have accepted it until a permanent agreement is found. That will happen within the next 4 years.

Especially for your pleasure, I'll find documents of temporary agreement and send it to you.

Quote

2. It is kidnapping period. Stop twisting it. It is not murder to allow someone to be hoisted of a trawler in a helo.

I guess we will be surprised after investigation. Perhaps both sides.