Author Topic: Murtha.. what did he just say?  (Read 2017 times)

Offline Gunslinger

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Murtha.. what did he just say?
« Reply #45 on: November 21, 2005, 08:28:06 PM »
What some of you don't realize is that our enemies feel they are in a 100 year war of attrition in wich they have allready been fighting for the last 25 years.  If we can't stand a two year fight than we should open up our borders now and become subservant to the religion of Islam because as radical as it sounds THAT is there goal.  TO make a world wide islamic community by force, terror, threat, and whatever means they think they can justify.  

2000+ of our GIs is a heafty price today in current times (wouldn't have been much in the days of Nam but that's another story) but 2,000,000 citizens dead is an imeasurable defeat and one we WILL face if we give in to our short term wants and political greed.  

Just my opinion though carry on

Offline Thrawn

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Murtha.. what did he just say?
« Reply #46 on: November 21, 2005, 08:44:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunthr
Hangtime, it is hard to disagree with you.  Your pain is very evident.  Still, I disagree with you because Iraq is not Vietnam.  This is WWW III.



Oh crap!!....oh wait, for a moment I thought you said this is WWWW IIIII, nevermind.

Offline Flit

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Murtha.. what did he just say?
« Reply #47 on: November 21, 2005, 08:51:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
What some of you don't realize is that our enemies feel they are in a 100 year war of attrition in wich they have allready been fighting for the last 25 years.  If we can't stand a two year fight than we should open up our borders now and become subservant to the religion of Islam because as radical as it sounds THAT is there goal.  TO make a world wide islamic community by force, terror, threat, and whatever means they think they can justify.  

2000+ of our GIs is a heafty price today in current times (wouldn't have been much in the days of Nam but that's another story) but 2,000,000 citizens dead is an imeasurable defeat and one we WILL face if we give in to our short term wants and political greed.  

Just my opinion though carry on

Yup, thats about it :(
 And the sooner everyone realizes it, the better off we will be.

Offline Hangtime

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Murtha.. what did he just say?
« Reply #48 on: November 21, 2005, 08:59:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
What some of you don't realize is that our enemies feel they are in a 100 year war of attrition in wich they have allready been fighting for the last 25 years.  If we can't stand a two year fight than we should open up our borders now and become subservant to the religion of Islam because as radical as it sounds THAT is there goal.  TO make a world wide islamic community by force, terror, threat, and whatever means they think they can justify.  

 


Guns, I don't get it.. when did War become a side job?

Either we're at War or just playing politics with our soldiers lives. IMHO, if it's a serious enough situation to start killin 50+ of our boys a month it's time the rest of the nation started to either do their part to materialy contribute or bring the kids home. This half-assed warfare **** has got to cease.

Full court press or bring 'em home. Either we're ALL in it, sacraficing what's necessary outta our own day to day grind, contributring materialy and morally to the effort or it's just bull**** lipservice.

Commitment.

The whole nine yards now, or bring 'em home.
'
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Gunslinger

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Murtha.. what did he just say?
« Reply #49 on: November 21, 2005, 09:16:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
Guns, I don't get it.. when did War become a side job?

Either we're at War or just playing politics with our soldiers lives. IMHO, if it's a serious enough situation to start killin 50+ of our boys a month it's time the rest of the nation started to either do their part to materialy contribute or bring the kids home. This half-assed warfare **** has got to cease.

Full court press or bring 'em home. Either we're ALL in it, sacraficing what's necessary outta our own day to day grind, contributring materialy and morally to the effort or it's just bull**** lipservice.

Commitment.

The whole nine yards now, or bring 'em home.
'


We live in a democracy and no politican is going to go full tilt on this republican or democrat.  The right thing to do is not allways the most popular and our leaders who make these decisions have to get relected.....That's not to say I approve of what I just said but that's how I see it.

In addition I don't see this as a limited war were we can't bomb certain people or take out certain "trails" for political reasons, this is what I said earlier a war of attritian.

Here's a lesson:

The main doctrine that our military uses for conducting war is called maneuver warfare.  It's brilliant in practice because:  The main thing about maneuver warfare is that you try to avoid hitting a bigger army head on.  You pick apart his supply lines and support and you exploit his weaknesses with speed and accuracy.  

The invasion of Iraq was a brilliant example of this, it went perfectly.  We advanced a good size army faster and longer than any in history and took relitivly few casualties.  We used our technology to our advantage and exploited our enemies weaknesses at ever aspect.

One of the main advantages of maneuver warfare is because of the speed of your army you can gain advantage with a smaller size force.

Well the good times are over now it's time to switch gears to occupation.  This requires a larger standing army and if you rember recent history you will recall that Turkey pulled the plug on the 4th ID from invading Iraq on a second northern front.  This caused them to have to go by ship all the way around to the suez and then back up the gulf.  These grunts were not on hand for the occupation for at least a month and missed the invasion alltogether.

Now the war fighting switches from maneuver warfare to an occupation of attritian.  The enemy is dug into the populus and has reletivly few supply lines and requires very little logistics to cary out his task.  He can inflict good amount of casualites (both military and civilian) utilizing very few assets.  Again this is a war of attritian.  This may not have been the plan from the onset but Mr. Murphy allways says no plan survives first contact with the enemy.

The Key to defeating an enemy like this is to stand fast and get him to fight you on your terms not his.  This is easier said than done considering who we are facing and this is their yard not ours.  Either way the will of the Iraqi people and more importantly the will of the American people play bigger roles in this type of warfare than most people realize.  When the will to fight of either populations is broken victory cannot be achieved and the enemy has won........even if he lost every military battle and suffered great defeat on the battlefield itself he has one the war.  This is a war of wills our's vrs. theirs.  They have the will (now) to stand fast and fight us on every front they can create for the next 75 years......do we?

anyways this is just a little incite into the way I think.....carry on!
« Last Edit: November 21, 2005, 09:19:13 PM by Gunslinger »

Offline Hangtime

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Murtha.. what did he just say?
« Reply #50 on: November 21, 2005, 09:45:45 PM »
64 years ago the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and killed 2,403 Americans. This nation got off it's pacifist bellybutton and went to War. Over the course of the next 4 1/2 years we built the mightiest War Machine the planet has ever seen. We went forth and kicked bellybutton all across the globe, defeating our enemies utterly. Full court press. Tuff road to hoe, but the Nation made a commitment and the job got done. Total War Footing, Production, Economy.. a nation bent to the task.

4 years ago Islamic Jihad came to America and killed 3,030 Americans.

WTF is wrong with this picture? We're dicking around, poking the snake with a stick. Meanwhile the snakes pals are getting organized. Now, we're getting 'tired' of poking the snake, the snakes getting seriously pissed and his buddies are getting in position to cut off our ability to kill their pal.

Bring 'em home or get it done. Enuff of this bull****.

Kill the damn snakes, already. All of 'em.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Nash

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Murtha.. what did he just say?
« Reply #51 on: November 21, 2005, 09:55:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime

Bring 'em home or get it done. Enuff of this bull****.


Exactly.

I think it's a fool's errand in the first place, but so long as you're serious about it, then dial it up or leave. Either of those is better for everyone involved than this... this... whatever it is....

Offline Hangtime

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Murtha.. what did he just say?
« Reply #52 on: November 21, 2005, 10:17:08 PM »
Nash, to have you agree with me makes me extremely uncomfortable.

Makes me wonder where I blew it.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Gunslinger

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Murtha.. what did he just say?
« Reply #53 on: November 21, 2005, 10:17:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Exactly.

I think it's a fool's errand in the first place, but so long as you're serious about it, then dial it up or leave. Either of those is better for everyone involved than this... this... whatever it is....


maybe we should try to understand Islam better and get to know our enemy so he doesn't hate us so much....right??

Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
WTF is wrong with this picture? We're dicking around, poking the snake with a stick. Meanwhile the snakes pals are getting organized. Now, we're getting 'tired' of poking the snake, the snakes getting seriously pissed and his buddies are getting in position to cut off our ability to kill their pal.


Hang we are allready fighting his buddies.  Iraq has become the great war for jihadists.  The come from all around for a chance to kill one of our boys.  The only advantage is they don't have very good aim and they are getting mowed down in droves at every engagment OFF OF US soil.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2005, 10:19:37 PM by Gunslinger »

Offline Hangtime

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Murtha.. what did he just say?
« Reply #54 on: November 21, 2005, 10:21:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
Hang we are allready fighting his buddies.  Iraq has become the great war for jihadists.  The come from all around for a chance to kill one of our boys.  The only advantage is they don't have very good aim and they are getting mowed down in droves at every engagment OFF OF US soil.


We fought all of WWII off of US soil. The problem is this damn country treats this as a side show militarily and our objective is incorrect. It shouldn't be 'pacifying' Iraq, it should be killing the snake, wherever it's hiding. It should be killing the snake trainers and handlers, the guys that feed 'em, the guys that rake out the cage and the guys that decided it was cool to raise snakes in the first place.

Total War, or get the hell out.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Sandman

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Murtha.. what did he just say?
« Reply #55 on: November 21, 2005, 10:29:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
It's so nice that all the arm chair generals have shown up for this wonderful discussion, including Murtha by quote.  

I think the only way this is going to end is by the major actions (with minor actions of another) of one command, and I'll give you one guess as to what command that is.


No gathering of arm chair generals would be complete without you. ;)
sand

Offline Sandman

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Murtha.. what did he just say?
« Reply #56 on: November 21, 2005, 10:33:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
We fought all of WWII off of US soil. The problem is this damn country treats this as a side show militarily and our objective is incorrect. It shouldn't be 'pacifying' Iraq, it should be killing the snake, wherever it's hiding. It should be killing the snake trainers and handlers, the guys that feed 'em, the guys that rake out the cage and the guys that decided it was cool to raise snakes in the first place.

Total War, or get the hell out.


I remember the snake. He's not in Iraq.

sand

Offline MrCoffee

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Murtha.. what did he just say?
« Reply #57 on: November 21, 2005, 10:58:57 PM »
I dont mean to sound like the oil is what its all about. However in looking at the situation without knowing all of the details, I can guess a few things. If US pulls out, there are some 100 iraqi thousand forces left. They may or may not out number the insurgence, supposedly they do. They may or may not fight for survival, they may lay their arms down, they may kill off the insurgents. Are the insurgents going to stand down and allow the govt the US forces established to gov.  Nature will take its course and the masses will flow to one side or the other and the the lesser side will loose. Perhaps its not naturally occuring now because US forces are there.  Its a 100 thousand Iraqi coalition forces vs some thousands insurgents. I think thats what Murtha is thinking about.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2005, 11:04:26 PM by MrCoffee »

Offline Nash

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Murtha.. what did he just say?
« Reply #58 on: November 22, 2005, 12:26:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
Nash, to have you agree with me makes me extremely uncomfortable.

Makes me wonder where I blew it.


Can't even agree with a guy anymore here without a a jab. Neato.

You know where you blew it Hang? It was some moment between the selling of the war, and right now. Only you know for sure.

As for your comment... This place couldn't be any uglier for me. The only thing more nasty than people getting hoodwinked is people realizing they've been hoodwinked. Damn do they ever get nasty.

Offline Hangtime

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Murtha.. what did he just say?
« Reply #59 on: November 22, 2005, 12:38:59 AM »
You ain't ever had the joy of getting a nasty gram from me yet... and I fail to see any 'nastyness' in my previous.

Yer skin gettin thin or is my perspective shot?
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.