Author Topic: WTG No Knock  (Read 7282 times)

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #75 on: November 29, 2006, 03:52:45 PM »
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If there was a mistake made, it was on the intelligence used to decide to raid the home. (Iraq)


Bull****.  Just like in the military, it is the foot policemen's duty to tell the difference between a moral and immoral order.

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Given 3 officers were wounded by an elderly lady suggests there was some hesitation by the police.


I was thinking that she bettered 3 police officers.  It's the fourth one that got her.

Had she survived I would have sent her a box of bullets, or a new assault rifle (if I had some money).
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Offline MotorOil1

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« Reply #76 on: November 29, 2006, 03:53:42 PM »
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Originally posted by Viking
For once I agree with Lazs. If that was my grandma I'd want those cops dead.


Cops on the raid likely had nothing to do with deciding on the raid.
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Offline MotorOil1

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« Reply #77 on: November 29, 2006, 04:00:50 PM »
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Bull****.  Just like in the military, it is the foot policemen's duty to tell the difference between a moral and immoral order.


I was thinking that she bettered 3 police officers.  It's the fourth one that got her.



Correct, but like I said, once you kick in the door and the shooting starts the train is in motion?  Perhaps the cops should have just curled up in the fetal position once the shooting started?

Mistake was already made before they kicked in the door.  They had no way of know that mistake was made until the door was kicked in, but by then it's already to late isn't it.

Wishing the cops dead doesn't exacly teach us anything either.
MoterOil
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"These are detestable murderers and scumbags. They detest our freedoms, they detest our society, they detest our liberties." - General Hillier July 14, 2005, on Osama bin Laden and his ilk

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #78 on: November 29, 2006, 04:19:57 PM »
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Correct, but like I said, once you kick in the door and the shooting starts the train is in motion? Perhaps the cops should have just curled up in the fetal position once the shooting started?


Perhaps the cops should never have kicked in the door.
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Offline Samiam

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« Reply #79 on: November 29, 2006, 06:33:16 PM »
We've given up our rights for a pointless war on drugs and this is the result..

The 2nd amendment gives you the right to arm yourself.

So called "make my day" laws allow you to defend your home from intruders.

The dismantling of the constitution in the name of the drug war gives the police the right to bust into your house unanounced and with no credible reason and mow you down as you attempt to excercise your 2nd ammendment rights.

The morons who are "conservatives" in name only need to wake up to this hypocracy ad stop the war on drugs. It's way more dangerous to the values we hold dear than islamic terrorists.

Offline bsdaddict

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« Reply #80 on: November 30, 2006, 08:38:22 AM »
in line with that raidmap, check this out...  http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2003/08/17/drugWarVictims.html

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #81 on: November 30, 2006, 08:55:55 AM »
motor oil that is bull.

I watch cops practice... they yell (in their best uninteligble marine corps Di voice "POLEEZEOBENOP"  and two seconds latter smash in the door and go in guns hot.   Maybe throw in a flash bang grenade... they are wearing all black.. armor and masks with "police" on the back of their armor...

they are doing this in the hours decent people are assleep.

Now, if you are a law abiding citizen (impossible given the amount of laws) but.. say you are pretty much one... you have the right to defend your home.  You have the right to be armed.  you have the right to shoot at gun toting ninjas breaking into your home.

I hope this helps to get rid of no knock but I doubt it.

We should have all been outraged when we seen our police wearing masks and making night time raids but... we trusted em.... never thought it would be used against citizens.... couldn't imagine a real homeowner let alone a grandma being roused in the middle of the night and killed when she fought off a group of these a holes.

but it is happening.

lazs

Offline Shamus

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« Reply #82 on: November 30, 2006, 10:30:06 AM »
And as we get programed to law enforcement using the same tactics as criminals, this type of thing becomes more common.

http://www.countypress.com/stories/112906/loc_90061122002.shtml

If you had a gun in your hand what would you have done?

I know prior to no knock and warrantless  raids becoming so common I would have felt justified in firing on these two clowns, now in the back of my mind is , if these morons really are LEO's that will get my family killed.

It's a quandary, who is most dangerous  to you?

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Offline DoctorYO

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« Reply #83 on: November 30, 2006, 01:25:14 PM »
Trust me by the time its over I see full fault in the hands of LE..

http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=88239

or

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/28/atlanta.shooting/

Just like this case... when Mr. Mayfield teleported to spain and back for the madrid bombing.. (the timelines were unfeasible, the spanish said BS) But  then was shackled anyway to cover up for the incompetence, to buy time to dig up legitimate or seed this guy illegally for evidence.. (oh yes patriot act allows seeding of property, what oversight is there during such a sneak and peek..., think about it..)

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1130/dailyUpdate.html

If i was mayfield I would give a public statement to waive the majority of the settlement** (it comes from tax) for  true accountability in the form of false imprisonment charges, purjury, kidnapping, breaking and entering, menacing, and whatever else you want to tack on..  money is meritless and hollow..  heads roll and vindication is justice.. fire all parties and supers for allowing it... tar and feather the chimpy's and walk em down main street with CNN documenting is fair justice to me..  lucky for them that would fall under cruel and unusual punishment for those that respect the constitution...

it amazes me that those who swear oath to the constitution respect it the least as proven by virgil's and others comments.  Im torn between Trent Lotts recent jab at the first admendment and now some of the comments made on this grandmother case..  what a sad state of america do we live in..


DoctorYo


PS: its going to be a real story when this happens in Florida with our new self defense law has just been enacted.. creates a legal paradox...  


 

** he could recoup the money thru a book deal..  at no burden to us tax payers.




Edited...     :   HERE IS THE WARRANT IF ANY ONE WANTS TO SEE IT...

http://www.11alive.com/news/pdf/apd_warrant1127.pdf

note the security camera claim..   Her house has no security cameras...

The officers were shot in the doorway at 1900 hrs..  nighttime.. the old lady had the bead on them.. that talk of oil about restraint is completely boot...
« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 02:01:51 PM by DoctorYO »

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #84 on: November 30, 2006, 02:41:39 PM »
shamus... anyone who would break into your home is likely to kill you, your family and most certainly your pets.   You should act accordingly.

If you die from a bad guy at least you tried... if you die from some alphabet soup ninja clad tax supported thug agency... well... maybe your surviving relatives can sue.

Best to have some warning and a fiream that will stop any kind thug breaking and entering even if he is wearing body armor.

I am angry about the state of affairs of the U.S. right now.   If we can't even be secure in our homes from the people we pay to protect us then perhaps it is time to just say no thanks to taxes and "services".

lazs

Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #85 on: November 30, 2006, 02:52:33 PM »
Perhaps it's time for a 51st state.  

http://www.jeffersonstate.com/

I live just a little bit too far north (Lane County) but I'd move.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline Samiam

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« Reply #86 on: November 30, 2006, 02:55:36 PM »
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Originally posted by DoctorYO
Trust me by the time its over I see full fault in the hands of LE..

[


Not me. Law Enforcement is behaving exactly as you might expect and predict that they would behave.

First, call it a WAR on drugs. Then offer substantial federal money to staff and train drug local drug enforcement and SWAT teams. Offer huge incentives both monetary for departments and career building for individuals to make drug busts. Finally, remove pesky little barriers like constitutional rights.

We, the American people, through our elected leaders, have clearly and loudly proclaimed to our law enforcement that this is a war and that we don't care if a few innocents are harmed or if our rights get trampled a little - JUST DO WHAT YOU MUST TO KEEP DRUGS AWAY FROM OUR KIDS. (Or maybe it's a lack of self controll issue and we have to keep drugs away from ourselves).

Don't blame law enforcement. They are doing what you said they can and should do to serve a greater good.

Offline Gunston

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« Reply #87 on: November 30, 2006, 03:35:17 PM »
This is far from being an isolated or infrequent occurence. I copied the following from an article about the sovereignty of the home. If you are not familar with the Donald Scott case I recomend you do a search of it, scary stuff.

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Take the case of Scott Bryant. Thirteen Wisconsin sheriff's deputies burst in the 29-year-old's trailer on the night of April 17, 1995, executing a no-knock warrant. Bryant, who was unarmed, was shot and killed during the assault while his 7-year-old son looked on. Police seized less than three grams of marijuana. On review, the county district attorney found that the shooting was "not in any way justified."

Robert Lee Peters had just settled down to watch a movie with his family when St. Petersburg police officers smashed through his front door unannounced with a battering ram in July 1994. Fearing that his home was being burglarized, Peters grabbed a gun and fired at his attackers. The officers returned fire, killing the 33-year-old father of two. Police confiscated two pounds of marijuana.

Sometimes victims possess no drugs. Just ask the family of Annie Rae Dixon an 84-year-old grandmother shot and killed during a 2 a.m. drug raid on her east Texas home in 1992. No drugs were ever found on the premises. One officer later hypothesized that his pistol accidentally discharged when he kicked open Dixon's bedroom door. "I started throwing my guts up crying because I knew I had shot somebody that didn't have no reason to be shot," he said. No less vicious was the 1998 shooting death of Pedro Oregon Navarro by Houston police. Six officers stormed his home at 1:40 a.m. in a military-style raid after a man arrested for public drunkenness said Navarro was a drug dealer. Agents shot the bleary-eyed Navarro 12 times, killing him. A search of his residence produced no illicit drugs or weapons.

California rancher Donald Scott, 61 met a similar fate in 1992, when a team of local and federal agents burst into his mansion during a midnight raid, ostensibly to search for marijuana. When Scott reached for a pistol to defend himself, he was shot dead. An investigation by the Ventura County district attorney later revealed that the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department had fabricated evidence that Scott was cultivating pot because it hoped to seize his property, which was adjacent to a federal park. Ventura County officials eventually agreed to pay the Scott family $4 million in damages; the federal government agreed to pay $1 million.

More recently a SWAT team from El Monte, California, raided a home in neighboring Compton on the evening of August 9, 1999, killing retired grandfather Mario Paz by shooting him twice in the back. Police executing the search warrant said they believed the house was sometimes used as a mail drop by a local drug dealer. Although police found no drugs and filed no charges against any surviving family members, they refused to return an estimated $11,000 dollars seized during the deadly raid.

Some victims are the victims of sheer error. Take the September 29, 1999, assault by Denver SWAT agents on the home of Ismael Mena. Mena, a 45-year-old father of nine, was shot eight times and killed by police in an unannounced raid. No drugs were found, and police now speculate that they may have had an incorrect address.

An equally vicious police blunder claimed the life of Reverend Accelyne Williams, a 75-year-old retired Methodist minister who suffered a fatal heart attack when Boston police broke into his apartment on March 24, 1994. Acting on false information provided by a confidential informant, anti-drug agents chased Williams to his bedroom, shoved him to the floor, and pointed guns at his head--inducing the heart attack that killed him. Boston Police Commissioner Paul Evans later admitted at a press conference that police likely raided the wrong apartment. "If that is the case, then there will be an apology," he said. Two years later, the city paid a $1 million settlement to Williams's widow.

William Pitt expressed the importance Americans once placed on the sanctity of the home from trespass when he said: "The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail--its, roof may shake--the wind may blow through it--the storm may enter--the rain may enter--but the King of England cannot enter--all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement."

The fact that our government and law enforcement personnel now view the sovereignty of the home as a quaint anachronism should disturb us all. Congress should address the issue of whether the escalating enforcement of drug prohibition threatens the right of all of us to be secure in our homes. To the families of the victims named above, the answer is all too clear.

Offline moot

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« Reply #88 on: December 01, 2006, 01:15:00 AM »
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Perhaps it's time for a 51st state.  

http://www.jeffersonstate.com/

I live just a little bit too far north (Lane County) but I'd move.

Hey, great minds.. that's what I've been saying for a while, now.  Thanks for the link Chairboy.
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Offline Debonair

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« Reply #89 on: December 01, 2006, 03:03:48 AM »
hippies & fishermen against rangers & farmers in an all out fight to the death over water rights
AKA
who will be the klamath basin suckers

that & the constitution prohibits making new states by carving up existing ones (too bad, i could use a couple extra senators)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2006, 03:07:34 AM by Debonair »