take the challenge and speak the blasphemy

[Shuckins]

The Catholic Church became a political institution at roughly the time of the Council of Nicea, and developed some teachings that were most unscriptural.  The sacraments, the selling of indulgences, and excommunication are just a few of these.  Throughout the time of the Middle Ages, these teachings were used to maintain and expand the Church's hold over the minds and the lives of its congregation.

As the centuries went by, the Church leadership became ever more wealthy and corrupt, using it's might and influence to acquire control of vast amounts of land in Europe.

Ultimately, the Church's power and religious hegemony were broken by two things:  the invention of the printing press which enabled the illiterate masses of Europe to read the Bible for themselves, and a courageous  monk who nailed his personal challenges to Church teachings to the door of a church in Wittenberg, Germany.

The reaction of the Catholic Church to this challenge of its authority was swift and bloody.  The religious wars that swept across northern Germany, Poland, and other areas of Europe, and which included the establishment of the Inquisition, ultimately ended in defeat for the Church.  

In an effort to stop the defection of many of its congregation to the Protestant religions, the Catholic Church was forced to reassess and repudiate many of its own actions and beliefs.

So the Protestant Reformation proved to be a revolution in thought and deed that no counter-measures, such as the Inquisition, could erase.  It moved the European world closer to the modern concept of true religious freedom.

So the Inquisition, which religion's detractors like to point to as a repudiation of religion in general, was itself an abhorrent aberration, and not a true representation of the modern Christian spirit.  The Christian religion derived immense benefit from the Protestant Revolution.

Islam has yet to undergo a similar softening transformation, and is the only major religion in the modern world that has retained its embarassing and dangerous militancy.

[lazs2]

dred...  I think that you need a history lesson... If you believe that the church was the only institution that tortured, imprissoned and killed people then you are mistaken..

It was the common behavior of the times.. we are talking spain and britan here... they were cruel countries that killed and maimed for a slice of bread stolen to feed a child.

The christian religion is a reflection of the times we live in....  just as the inquisition was a reflection of the times the modern christian religion is a reflection of today...  this is the oppossite of the muslim one that is still rooted in the inquisition and the difference is apparent.

vudak... good enough.   as I say... I am not a christian but I don't take much opportunity to bash them unless they get really annoying on a personal level... I believe modern christians do a lot of good in the world.

As for your god... the scientist... I have grudging respect for the scientist but realize that they are wrong most of the time.   I have contempt for those scientists (and there are legions) who push forth half baked theories as if they were the stone tablets brought down from the mountain by moses himself... They are pompous power grubbers who cause great harm.

Their fanatical believers are more dangerous to me than any thousand jehovah witness groups at my door..  They try to affect my life with their bogus studies and models and tainted and flimsy data.

lazs

[dmf]

Originally posted by wrag
Ahh the flood.  Why did it happen?  You read it, but because it was forced upon you I'm inclined to think you may have missed it.  The Fallen Ones.  They created a problem.  Ran around beggetting n such.  Their offspring were refered to as men of renoun and or giants.  The renoun was not of a good sort.  They were after the Adamic line.  Wanted to destroy it.  Seems Noah and his family were the only ones remaining of the Adamic line.  Seems that what this place (the earth) was like was BAD.  Very bad!  Worse then present day Samolia, or the Nazi regime, or Stalin's time, or Pol Pot.  IIRC the giants had a mean, cruel, and cannabalistic, streak as well.

Yep there are other religions.  IMHO each should select the religion they believe suites them.  HOWEVER IIRC NO religion is without a destructive time.  As has been said in other post within this thread.  Sadly, there is always someone that takes a religion and twists it to their own ends.  Often creating something EVIL while doing so.

Oh so your god doesn't want anything HE doesn't approve of then right? Better come kill me now and save him the trouble

[dmf]

Originally posted by Pooh21
I think everyone, be they Christian,jew,or muslim feels a little bit of joy in their hearts when they shout

"Burn the Witch!!!"

Always got to destroy or kill what isn't understood, or is different, or isn't what you want to live next door to.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by lazs2
dred...  I think that you need a history lesson... If you believe that the church was the only institution that tortured, imprissoned and killed people then you are mistaken..

It was the common behavior of the times.. we are talking spain and britan here... they were cruel countries that killed and maimed for a slice of bread stolen to feed a child.

The christian religion is a reflection of the times we live in....  just as the inquisition was a reflection of the times the modern christian religion is a reflection of today...  this is the oppossite of the muslim one that is still rooted in the inquisition and the difference is apparent.

 

No lesson needed
I was simply pointing out that the Christian religeon hands arent a whole lot cleaner then any of the others

BTW you forgot France

[Silat]

Originally posted by sluggish
I'll subscribe to what you're selling but by and large Christians don't buy into a majority of the Old Testament.  The Old Testament is the Jewish Bible.  There really isn't that much difference between the brutality of the Old Testament and the Koran. For example, that Leviticus Question I asked that everyone pretended they didn't see...

Jesus preached to turn the other cheek and what-not.  I think he would probably really fit in well with today's blunt smoking hippies.  I think John Lennon said it best when he said that "Jesus was alright but his disciples were thick and ordinary."  It's like when you played that game in school where you whispered a message in your neighbor’s ear and they passed it on and you saw how the message got totally turned around by the time it got to the end of the line.  We see on a daily basis how people will consistently screw everything up.  How can we expect a two-thousand year old story passed on from generation to generation, translated from one tongue to another and then back again to have any semblance of the truth, let alone the word of god?

And let it be known that I am not denying god, I'm just questioning the messenger.

Well you ask any priest if the old book is the Jewish book. He will set you straight. Both books are the bible. The old book is the only book the Jews follow. Both books is what the Christians follow.
And I think we agree on a book written by men who were cultists having any real veracity.
Men are the problem with religion.

[wrag]

Originally posted by dmf
Oh so your god doesn't want anything HE doesn't approve of then right? Better come kill me now and save him the trouble

You think God is a he?   I don't.  Neither a He nor a She.

Hmmm.........  did you read my post?  Am I talking to a closed, and locked mind?  Are you condoning cannabalizim, rape, murder, enslavement of yourself or your children?  I must say I don't approve of these things.

Look, IMHO witchcraft, magic, or whatever you want to call it, actually works, SORTA.

In most cases not overly well, or with much strength, if at all.  I've seen too much to think otherwise.  

LOL am I gonna catch it now!  (FLAME SUITE ON!)

There is a problem with it.  The problem is... NOTHING is FREE.  It MUST be paid for!  Sadly what many THINK is sufficent payment is more of a very SMALL downpayment.  They're dealing with something that has NO intention of being truthful, nice, or fair to them.  BUT they're getting what they THINK they want soooo....................   the defured payment plan?  Watch out for that balloon payment towards the end!

They can go ahead and cast their spells or whatever. But KNOW that even if the spell doesn't SEEM to work.  They've just got an expensive incoming collect call and accepted it.  They are now running a TAB.  And if they try it on the wrong person, succeed or not, the price goes WAY UP!

To those that much is given, much is expected?  Or perhaps a better word....required?

Seeking power over others? Seeking control of others?  Want to pay em back?  Is it Fear? Rage? Bitterness? Need for Revenge?

What is the mindset behind such people?   Why do some seek such an expensive thing?  What drives such minds?

Anyone wanna try and explain?

BTW dmf I have NO desire to see you harmed.  So not gonna do what you suggest.

[dmf]

OK number one, didn't your god create man in his own image?
Sounds male genderish to me.

Second, I'm not closed or locked, I've just simply done my homework. You can't prove to me your god does exist, just as I can't prove to you that he doesn't exist, I'm simply stating that you people follow the approved religions blindly, not knowing if your religion is even real or the right one to follow, who knows in your world what if Southern Baptist is the right religion that will go to heaven, I know more then a few people that are screwed.

[Silat]

Originally posted by lukster
Perhaps I wasn't clear. Let me rephrase.

Take athiest fanatics, for example the communists, they murdered millions.

I wasn't calling anyone here a fanatic or a communist. You misunderstood my comment.

Ok...
And just for clarity. There were many (millions) of commies that were religious. Communists as GODLESS is a rightwing scare tactic. It was used in the 50's to get money and support from the sheeple. After the wall came down they needed new issues. So, abortion and gay marriage was born.
And fanatics of any persuasion are a problem.

[lukster]

Originally posted by Silat
Ok...
And just for clarity. There were many (millions) of commies that were religious. Communists as GODLESS is a rightwing scare tactic. It was used in the 50's to get money and support from the sheeple. After the wall came down they needed new issues. So, abortion and gay marriage was born.
And fanatics of any persuasion are a problem.

I'm sorry but that is simply untrue. Communists very much saw/see religion as a threat to their complete control over the people. I and others have posted many references to this in the past. You'd do well to do a little research and stop believing everything the secular-progressives tell you.

[Suave]

Originally posted by wrag
You think God is a he?   I don't.  Neither a He nor a She.

You worship a transgender god? What are you a moony?

[Suave]

Originally posted by Old Sport
The actual context for this verse is that Yeshua, the Rebbe from Nazareth, was working obvious miracles of driving demonic spirits out of people. Some of the eyewitnesses in the entourage said that Yeshua was driving out spirits, not by the power of God, but by the power of Satan, i.e. calling the Holy Spirit an unclean, satanic spirit. That is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit that Yeshua said would never find forgiveness, not denying the existence of the Holy Spirit. In fact there are comments in the Talmud that Yeshua did indeed work miracles, though the charge again is not by the power of Hashem, but rather by secret arts. So, from jurisprudence, when opponents testify of the same thing about an issue, there is high likelihood for that particular matter to be true, i.e. that Yeshua really did perform outstanding miracles.

Nevertheless, it is also clear that those who consistently refuse to seek God will likewise receive everlasting separation from God's beneficence whether they’re a YouTube blasphemy star or not.

Tempted to blaspheme?

I knew a fellow from DFW who at age 18 had professed faith in Christ. He joined the Army, was sent to Europe, met a fräulein and married her. She was a Satanist and persuaded him to blaspheme Christ and acknowledge Satan as lord. Within a few months he was given a medical discharge from the Army, 90% permanent disability, for attempting suicide and other psychotic behavior. I became acquainted with the fellow about 12 years after that. Though usually lucid and conversant the fellow was still suffering even though under treatment, tormented by continual voices and bizarre spells. He said he wanted to find a way to get right with God and be healed from tormenting demonic spirits. One evening while in conversation he started acting bizarre. I began to exorcise spirits. At one point he lunged at me, his face about three inches from my face and contorted grotesquely, and a low raspy voice growled, "You'll never get him, he's mine!" Yes, it really happened. I have to say that even with previous spiritual experiences this particular event was profound. A friend of mine who also knew of the fellow's situation later joined me and we continued to exorcise spirits. During the session both of us saw strange, fleeting black swirls in the air around the fellow's head many times. Our session ended that evening without final success. During all the time that I knew the tormented fellow he could never decide that he would renounce his vows to Satan, even while lucid, and he remained tormented.

I recommend not playing around with or promoting blasphemy even if you think it all a bunch of bunk. I would recommend carefully reconsidering the worldview of the Bible.

I bet she was a gypsie. Where's xmarine when you need him?

[mosgood]

Originally posted by dmf
Second, I'm not closed or locked, I've just simply done my homework. You can't prove to me your god does exist, just as I can't prove to you that he doesn't exist, I'm simply stating that you people follow the approved religions blindly, not knowing if your religion is even real or the right one to follow, who knows in your world what if Southern Baptist is the right religion that will go to heaven, I know more then a few people that are screwed.

Do you mean that since you've done your homework you've made up your mind?  What I hear from you DMF is a lot of small blurbs of parts of the bible without any understanding of what they mean.  And from there you are basing your final judgement.  You mentioned that your grandmother made you read the King James Version..  a lot of people have a hard time reading and understanding it.. I'm one of them and I know that if I was a kid and read the KJV I probably would have understood less than you did.  Never mind the part where as a kid when you are MADE to do something it's harder to pay attention.

I say this because a lot of the things you are saying are exactly the things I was saying about the bible before I actually read it.  I mean a more modern translation that provided me a better understanding.   It's not what I thought it was.  After I realized that my personal research, before reading a better version, was under a false impression, I also started talking to people that had a better understanding then I did and directed me to find out more info.

Anyways, not trying to stick anything down anyones throat... just my 2 cents.

[dmf]

Tell that to the preachers, fathers, and reverends that always get the questions about your god and the bible and all they say is" because it is written" I can write a book.

I might be going out on a limb here but I get the feeling that if I say what my religion is that theres about 5 people on here that dam me to hell, 4 that will try to convert me, 2 that will laugh, 1 that'll say I'm tooling, 50 that will read it and post nothing, 4 that will pretend to have pity on me ( which I really don't want or need) and 1 that will actually feel pity for me.

My grandmother is VERY religious, and she can translate what the king James version means into plain everyday English off the top of her head without even thinking about it. But I don't think I'm under a false impression about the bible. Your god is a god of war not peace. Want proof, watch the news, or better yet watch that nut case Pat Robertson on the 700 club, he'll tell ya to break the 10 commandments rule about killing and smile while he does it.

[mosgood]

Originally posted by dmf
I might be going out on a limb here but I get the feeling that if I say what my religion is that theres about 5 people on here that dam me to hell, 4 that will try to convert me, 2 that will laugh, 1 that'll say I'm tooling, 50 that will read it and post nothing, 4 that will pretend to have pity on me ( which I really don't want or need) and 1 that will actually feel pity for me.

I see what you mean.  It's a lot more fun judging and critisizing without all the facts other religions than it is to actually grow a pair and claim what YOUR religion is for fear of the same treatment you are dishing out.


I'll judge yours but I am afraid you will judge mine?