Author Topic: Th course of British Society in the future  (Read 4686 times)

Offline Yeager

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« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2007, 12:25:50 PM »
dang.......

Ok, two points:

1) Neither of those three stories was about happy violence  :rolleyes:

2)  Man, you guys are more violent that I thought :huh
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Offline Dowding

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« Reply #46 on: June 15, 2007, 12:34:08 PM »
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Britain is an absolute shambles at the moment, but to blame that immigration is wrong.


Britain is a shambles at the moment? I'm sure you know alot about that sitting in California.

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One last thing - what's 'British'? I can tell you that - as a Scot - I have a different set of values from many from other parts of Britain - notably South East England. Does that make me any less British?


You may be British, but I fear Britain is heading for Balkanisation if your friends in the Scottish Parliament have anything to do with it. If you are Scottish, your kids get free University Education. If you are a Scottish Old Age Pensioner, you get free nursing care. If you have cancer and happen to be Scottish, you have access to expensive new drugs on the NHS.

If you are English, you just get to pay for the Scottish priviledges and are denied them for yourself and your relatives.

I would love to see Scotland have its independance and try and survive without the good ol' English tax-payer.

England is waking up, my friend. Scottish Nationalists may get a unexpected ally south of the border...

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england is bad right now.



anywhere outside the fancy areas of london is dangerous after dark.


Outside London (which I don't consider to be a representative part of the UK anymore), things aren't so bad. In fact, I think things are rather a good - people are more prosperous, the regeneration of the Northern cities has been quite stunning (Manchester, Leeds even my home-town of Sheffield).

The only real issue that concerns me is the lack of integration of ethnic communities into British society. A solution needs to be found, but no-one has the balls to grasp the bull by the horns. However, a huge shift in attitudes would be required, especially in some communities.
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Offline Major Biggles

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« Reply #47 on: June 15, 2007, 01:22:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
dang.......

Ok, two points:

1) Neither of those three stories was about happy violence  :rolleyes:

2)  Man, you guys are more violent that I thought :huh




well, the chavs had a craze of happy slapping going round (getting your mobile phone out and using the camera to film your mates beating people up on the street).

as for street crime here, it's terrible in the cities. someone was shot on my street a few years back, there were 3 muslim honour killings within 1 mile of my house in the last few years, one of which about 200yrds from my house.

and as a schoolkid, roughly 20-30 kids were mugged each week within 500yrds of the school. london is a violent place. a lot of drug gangs in some parts of london too. there are also a huge number of under 18s with illegal firearms (mainly full on handguns and automatics, like berettas and uzis)

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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #48 on: June 15, 2007, 02:12:28 PM »
If you shot em they couldn't beat up anyone...  if they knew they might get shot... they might not even try to beat up anyone.

You guys could use some rethinking about the evil of gun control.

lazs

Offline Bruv119

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« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2007, 02:24:37 PM »
Laz don't hijack this thread to support your Guns for all movement. (i'm not against guns)


Good points Dowding, saw a news report the other day saying Scotland alone would have the worst GDP in europe if they went on their own. (propaganda or not)

It would be a great shame if Scotland did decide to split and Wales aswell for that matter.  Look at the US of A i'm sure many people in America don't even venture outside of their own states.  Nearly all american states are larger than the UK combined.  So to split Britain further is just not worth it.

Might aswell go back to our old tribes.  Celts, picts and anglo saxons.  I'd rather see us join the Euro than devolve further.  At least that would be some sort of "progression"?
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Offline Banzzai

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« Reply #50 on: June 15, 2007, 02:42:14 PM »
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Originally posted by Bruv119


I'd rather see us join the Euro than devolve further.
At least that would be some sort of "progression"?


believe me Britain not joining the Euro has been one of the best decisions ever made.

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the regeneration of the Northern cities has been quite stunning
(Manchester, Leeds even my home-town of Sheffield).


the centers of these cities might be quite stunning but the suburbs
And 50% of its inhabitants are still well & truly the pits.

Offline Bruv119

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« Reply #51 on: June 15, 2007, 02:48:18 PM »
i don't disagree with that banzaii  but for scotland and Wales to go all independance day on us  would be a big disloyalty to the union jack and hundreds of years of history of working together.
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Offline wooley

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« Reply #52 on: June 15, 2007, 04:35:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
Britain is a shambles at the moment? I'm sure you know alot about that sitting in California.


Well - I guess it could have improved dramatically in the two years since I left and I just didn't spot it during the eight trips back I've had since then.

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Originally posted by Dowding


You may be British, but I fear Britain is heading for Balkanisation if your friends in the Scottish Parliament have anything to do with it.



Scots nationalism only gained prominence after we were royally screwed under the Tories who - with zero support North of the Border - were quite happy to run their little political experiments up there e.g. 3 years of Poll tax prior to its introduction in England. The Nationalists historically broke Labour's stranglehold when they made the same mistake as the Tories by completely ignoring Scottish opinions, arrogantly believing the Scots would blindly continue to vote for them come whatever. That wasn't a vote for independence - it was a reaction to Labour not listening to Scottish opinion. Most Scots are not in favour of independance.

I have never ever been in favour of independence and am proud to call myself British, but in the circumstances, had I been at home for the elections I might well have voted SNP as well.

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Originally posted by Dowding


If you are Scottish, your kids get free University Education. If you are a Scottish Old Age Pensioner, you get free nursing care. If you have cancer and happen to be Scottish, you have access to expensive new drugs on the NHS.



Don't blame Scotland - blame your own elected officials for not having the bottle or nous to obtain the same 'privileges' for you.

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Originally posted by Dowding


I would love to see Scotland have its independance and try and survive without the good ol' English tax-payer.



Scotland does take more out of the UK than it puts in - I don't dispute it. But then, so do most of the English regions, Wales and Northern Ireland. Take away London and the Home Counties and what's left is just as screwed up as Scotland.

Many Scots feel is the reason Scotland is so poor and requires hand-outs is due to years of mis-management from London. For what its worth, I disagree. I think the reason Scotland is so poor is that it is full of lazy-@rsed so and so's who have no intention of ever working a day in their life and has a presbyterian background that has discourages any kind of entrepreneurial spirit. The one potential redeeming factor - the world-class education system - pumps out thousands of high-quality graduate each year, but unfortunately there are so few opportunities, many are forced to move away taking the wealth of the nation with them.

Unless Scotland can address that last problem - the lack of professional opportunities - and thus increase the size of its middle-class, I agree with you: an independent Scotland would be a disaster.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2007, 04:40:06 PM by wooley »

Offline Major Biggles

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« Reply #53 on: June 15, 2007, 05:51:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
If you shot em they couldn't beat up anyone...  if they knew they might get shot... they might not even try to beat up anyone.

You guys could use some rethinking about the evil of gun control.

lazs



thankfully, even though there is guncrime, it's mainly just small gang incidents. the real problem is knifecrime. you can't ban knives, and they're cheap, quiet, and easy to hide.

britain's guncrime and gun deaths are 1000's of times lower than the states for a reason. we're still allowed guns, the guns that are worth owning, shooting shotguns, rifles etc. i think it's a good thing that handguns are banned. they're purely designed as a concealable weapon for killing someone, something i don't want on my streets.

some theif pulls a knife and you can run. he pulls a gun and you're screwed, and it's only the full on gangsters with the guns.


i am perfectly happy with the gun laws here, they're just right. if you want to do something useful with a gun, shooting birds or targets etc, they check you out and give you a permit, something i think america could learn from. not banning weapons, but checking people out before selling them.

you may think you have the right to bear arms, but everyone has the right to life, so keeping guns of the hands of crazies is sensible i think.

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Offline Laurie

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« Reply #54 on: June 15, 2007, 06:09:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Major Biggles
laurie's post didn't appear to be 'i'm a white christian, everyone else bugger off' at all.

he was saying that many of britain's subcultures do not integrate, and do not abide by the law, which is unfortunately very true in our large cities.

there's a HUGE problem with black knife + gun gang crime, most of these guys aged 12-18. young black kids (plenty of white kids too) roam the streets looking for an easy victim to either rob or just murder for the fun of it. the problem is nothing to do with race, but the subculture. with a lot of the poor young black guys, their whole life is based around respect through violence and 'bling' which is usually all stolen, or paid for with stolen goods.


these are young BRITISH kids who are out of control, and our useless government (nor any of the useless parties) don't do anything. england is bad right now.



anywhere outside the fancy areas of london is dangerous after dark. luckily enough i don't get much trouble because i'm fairly tall and well built, but growing up i was always terrified coming home. it really is that bad.



but laurie, learning about other cultures is a good thing. just because a small percentage of wackjob muslims don't keep an open mind, doesn't mean you should become a fanatic and close yours. hate never solves anything, just look at bloody palestine and israel! think about getting into local politics too :)


here ,here.

i live in County of Hertfordshire.

And Bruv, id rather see britain join hand in hand with the french than adopt the euro, i mean look how strong the pound is. Also the european Union is NOT progressive, it has become stagnant and an excuse for the poor countries to suck dry the richer ones whilst allowing France+Germany to Un-justly dominate.

For god's sake labour won't give the police tazers because it 'might infringe the human rights of the criminals' yet we see more and more police being killed and more and more armed criminals.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2007, 06:13:32 PM by Laurie »

Offline Laurie

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« Reply #55 on: June 15, 2007, 06:11:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Banzzai


 

the centers of these cities might be quite stunning but the suburbs
And 50% of its inhabitants are still well & truly the pits.


Your forgetting birmingam lol.

Offline AKH

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« Reply #56 on: June 15, 2007, 06:57:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Banzzai
the centers of these cities might be quite stunning but the suburbs
And 50% of its inhabitants are still well & truly the pits.

And what would you know of it?
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Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #57 on: June 15, 2007, 11:01:16 PM »
Major Biggles, with all due respect to your views, I think you can't see the forest for the trees.  I consider the defense of my family and life a proper use of a firearm.

If you consider the U.K.'s gun laws to be "just right" that is well and good.  But if gang crime in your country continues to worsen, what are the elderly to do?  Stay at home and never venture forth without a bodyguard?  

I'm 53 years old.  If confronted by a knife-wielding punk I would have a very hard time outrunning him.  True, I could give him what he wanted, but what if he wants my life?  Suppose he and some of his wolfish brethren kick in my door late one night.  Loading and using a long-gun in the dark is difficult at best.  If I used a gun to kill one of them, would your court system think my actions were justified?

Major, I deal with these punks every working day.  My place of employment is a juvenile detention center where we handle the worst kids in the state.  I've gained quite a bit of insight into what makes them tick:  Drugs, glorified violence, illicit sex, money.  But their revelling in violence is the most troubling, whether of not they have a gun available or not.  They are thrill-seekers, and they tend to seek a bigger and bigger thrill with each week that passes, steadily ratcheting up their violence and other activities.

Within the last two years, some of our parolees have committed three murders and an untold number of felony assaults.  They enjoy it.  Two of these murders were committed with a gun, but the most brutal was committed with a pair of scissors, against a woman from my home town.  Hardened police officers of my acquaintance were deeply shaken by what they saw when they arrived on the scene.

None of the victims was armed, for they were law-abiding citizens.  Three decent, worthwhile citizens had their lives snuffed out by thrill-seeking animals:  a father, a mother, and a 76 year old grandfather who was slain because he had no money.  One of those murders was planned by one of our inmates while he was in our custody, and he would have carried it out if he had had to use a baseball bat.

Most of our young inmates are not that hard-core, but enough are to give one pause.

From some of the posts by your fellow Brits in this thread, I gather that gang violence is worsening in your country.  If you are comfortable with the current laws of your country regulating the use of firearms for self-defence then more power to you.  Deal with that problem as you see fit.

But if one of these predators shows up on my front doorstep unnanounced I will answer the door with a gun in my hand.

Do I live in fear?  Not in so many words.  I live a normal life, as do most Americans.  I don't live in an inner city where much of this sort of gang violence takes place.  There are still a lot of Mayberry's in this country.

I just prefer that my options not be limited.

Regards, Shuckins

Offline Banzzai

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« Reply #58 on: June 16, 2007, 01:16:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKH
And what would you know of it?



Born & Bread In CREWE (hides his head in shame)

Say no more

Offline SteveBailey

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« Reply #59 on: June 16, 2007, 01:37:41 AM »
68hawk?  


*crickets*