It's Like the Hydra

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by lazs2
what is your point?  does the left ever speak of the way women are treated?

Why would I?   I believe that if the women join a religion of their own free will that makes them do... whatever... that is their business.

That is how I feel about it.  I wish to give everyone a choice... if you choose to give up your own personal rights.. that is your business... when you force people... that is different.

The left however.. feels that you should have no choice.. that women can never be made to wear or do whatever.. even if they are the ones who chose to do so.

My ideal would be.. our forefathers... freedom of religion.. all religion.  so long as it did not force people.

I don't see how that is so difficult for you to grasp.

lazs

Most women who are Islamic did not do this...

1) So, from what you are saying, you have no empathy for anyone not like you? Yes? No?

Assuming I am a lefty or a righty is an error of assumption.

I am a middle of the roady moderate; just to the right of center.

Islam, like many other religions... is a matter of birth for many peoples.

2) How many Christians are baptized as infants and raised in the context of their parents religion?

3) Where you are born and to whom you are born sets many things in concrete. Yes? No?

4) It is incumbent upon the unborn child to choose their parents wisely? Yes? No?
mmmm...

TIGERESS

[DREDIOCK]

Unfortunately there is only one solution.
And its the solution that nobody wants to do.
But is probably inevitable even if by their own hand.

Much of the fight is about control of the so called Holy lands.

Like two kids that wont stop fighting over a ball.

Remove the ball

Evaporate the holy lands and the surrounding area from existance.

In that way you cut off all the heads of the hydra and seal then with fire.
Much in the way Hercules did in fighting the hydra.

There isnt a political solution. there never will be.

It is however going to be the enevitable conclusion.
Even if by their own hands

[Tigeress]

mmmm... The Hydra is conquerable but not ultimately defeatable...



Herakles [Hercules] was assigned 10 labors by his cousin Eurystheus as punishment for killing his family in a moment of rage.

The myth of Herakles and the Hydra comes from his second labor. The Hydra, a mulit-headed snake creature that spewed venom from its mouth, was from Lerna which was a swampy area in the Peloponnesus.

During their battle, Herakles discovered that each time he cut off one of the Hydra's heads, two more would grow back in its place.

Herakles then ordered his nephew to stand on the neckstumps every time he cut off a head to prevent new ones from growing back.

After he finished cutting off all the heads, Herakles learned that the head in the center was immortal. In order to complete his labor, he buried the head under a huge rock, immobolizing it.

Unfortunately, since Herakles completed this labor with the help of his nephew, it did not count towards the ten he needed to complete.

-Paraphrased from Greek and Roman Mythology, written by Kirk Summers

[DREDIOCK]

odd. the version I read he burned the necks to prevent the heads from growing back.

Hence my statement

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
odd. the version I read he burned the necks to prevent the heads from growing back.

Hence my statement

I'm sure you did read that. It was all greek! Various interpretations and all, I think.

TIGERESS

EDIT: from another source:

Hercules’ second labor meant killing the feared serpent, Hydra of Lerna. Hydra had various heads, which frustrated Hercules because they were able to regenerate almost instantly after they were cut off. He realized that he was getting nowhere with the dreaded Hydra. Hercules enlisted the help of his nephew Iolaus, whom he had brought with him, to burn each neck of the Hydra with fire immediately after each head was cut off. Hercules would cut off a head, and Iolaus would set out to disable it. This worked until they both realized that one of Hydra’s heads was not to be stopped by the fire. Hercules buried this particular head underneath a rock and took his arrows out of his pouch, dousing them all with Hydra’s blood. The poisoned arrows would be invaluable to Hercules as he pursued his labors, but they would also lead to his undoing.

-from: http://dede.essortment.com/greekmythology_rnwn.htm

[DREDIOCK]

LOL ok.

But you still get my point.

Eventually the entire area is going ot be wiped clean.
I just dont see any other logical conclusion barring everyone suddenly.Falling in love with one another over there.

In that way, in a sense the last head will be literally buried under rock.
the epicenter of the extremism is in the ME.
As is the epicenter of the reasons for it.

Once the leadership and the reason for it is gone.
there will be nothing left to fight over

and its going ot happen sooner or later. Its just a matter of when and who starts it

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
LOL ok.

But you still get my point.

Eventually the entire area is going ot be wiped clean.
I just dont see any other logical conclusion barring everyone suddenly.Falling in love with one another over there.

In that way, in a sense the last head will be literally buried under rock.
the epicenter of the extremism is in the ME.
As is the epicenter of the reasons for it.

Once the leadership and the reason for it is gone.
there will be nothing left to fight over

and its going ot happen sooner or later. Its just a matter of when and who starts it

...and by the hand of a new age Hercules, no doubt.

Their religion is their strength and yet... their weakness.

They are vulnerable as you are saying.

Destroy  that which they hold most dear just as they did on 911 and the future 911s, which no doubt with be massive... or hold it nuclear hostage with absolute follow-through to keep them at bay. But they are more emotional than logical, in my view.

I think they fear the reality of that more than dying.

TIGERESS

EDIT: I wonder if the origional Quran still exists...

[Tigeress]

This song, says much about how I feel about all this...

In The Shadows - The Rasmus

No sleep
No sleep until I am done with finding the answer
Won't stop
Won't stop before I find a cure for this cancer
Sometimes
I feel like going down and so disconnected
Somehow
I know that I am haunted to be wanted

I've been watching
I've been waiting
In the shadows all my time
I've been searching
I've been living
For tomorrows all my life

In the shadows

They say
That I must learn to kill before I can feel safe
But I
I'd rather kill myself than turn into their slave
Sometimes
I feel that I should go and play with the thunder
Somehow
I just don't want to stay and wait for a wonder

I've been watching
I've been waiting
In the shadows all my time
I've been searching
I've been living
For tomorrows all my life

Lately I been walking walking in circles, watching waiting for something
Feel me, touch me, heal me, come take me higher

I've been watching
I've been waiting
In the shadows all my time
I've been searching
I've been living
For tomorrows all my life
I've been watching
I've been waiting
I've been searching
I've been living for tomorrows

In the shadows

I've been waiting

TIGERESS

[lazs2]

tigress.. you did not get my point at all...

empathy has nothing to do with it... whether I like them as a people has nothing to do with it... whether I think their religion is right or wrong has nothing to do with it.

It is none of my business if a woman wants to be part of that religion... if she is being forced then that is different.

I would make freedom of religion the important right of every free person.  I would defend a muslims right to be treated like a second class citizen if that is what she wanted... I would also allow her to leave any religion that forced it on her if she wished.  

If a woman did not wear a burka or whatever and was attacked.. the attackers would be arrested and punished.. if she did wear one and was attacked by say...feminists.. the feminists would be arrested and punished.

It is simple stuff really... much more simple than songs and poetry walls of words.

lazs

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by lazs2
tigress.. you did not get my point at all...

empathy has nothing to do with it... whether I like them as a people has nothing to do with it... whether I think their religion is right or wrong has nothing to do with it.

It is none of my business if a woman wants to be part of that religion... if she is being forced then that is different.

I would make freedom of religion the important right of every free person.  I would defend a muslims right to be treated like a second class citizen if that is what she wanted... I would also allow her to leave any religion that forced it on her if she wished.  

If a woman did not wear a burka or whatever and was attacked.. the attackers would be arrested and punished.. if she did wear one and was attacked by say...feminists.. the feminists would be arrested and punished.

It is simple stuff really... much more simple than songs and poetry walls of words.

lazs

Question 1 was a yes/no; didnt ask for a wall of words lol

Songs and prose may or may not float your boat... to others they may.

But I am a multi-modal communicator as well as multi-tasking

So I am studying Lazs-Speak 101 but so far I am getting a D- hahahahaha

So how about questions 2, 3 & 4 ?

Two of them are yes/nos the other one is a do you own thing answer.

TIGERESS

[lazs2]

are you just dense?  I was replying to your accusation that I had no empathy.

but ok.. for the rest of your questions..

2)..  I was baptized and went to catholic school.. since we have freedom of religion here....  I left the church at about age 14.. simple stuff.  It did me no harm to be exposed to it and I was never forced to stay once I cam of age.

3)... more drivel... nothing is set in concrete.. see above.  I was raised middle class.. I became a criminal and drug addict.. others ... raised poor became middle  class... most people I know have changed from the religion of their parents.

all this needs a free society however.

4)..how many angles can dance on the head of a... pinhead...  I don't even understand the question... children can't pick their parents.    adults can choose how to live in a free society.   If you don't have a free society then it matters not who your parents are.

There.. answered all your questions even tho... I am sure you thought they were clever and rhetorical.  

It is essential that people are guarnteed their human rights... at that point... it matters very little who your parents were.. why do you think so many kids rebel against their parents?  it is a human drive for individuality.  this is of course, something that women understand less than men.  

If a society is not free.. then who your parents are is even less meaningful.   The government takes over the role when the child is of age.

I really don't expect you to understand any of this but feel free to insert a song or a poem that has nothing to do with the subject.

lazs

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by lazs2
are you just dense?  I was replying to your accusation that I had no empathy.

but ok.. for the rest of your questions..

2)..  I was baptized and went to catholic school.. since we have freedom of religion here....  I left the church at about age 14.. simple stuff.  It did me no harm to be exposed to it and I was never forced to stay once I cam of age.

3)... more drivel... nothing is set in concrete.. see above.  I was raised middle class.. I became a criminal and drug addict.. others ... raised poor became middle  class... most people I know have changed from the religion of their parents.

all this needs a free society however.

4)..how many angles can dance on the head of a... pinhead...  I don't even understand the question... children can't pick their parents.    adults can choose how to live in a free society.   If you don't have a free society then it matters not who your parents are.

There.. answered all your questions even tho... I am sure you thought they were clever and rhetorical.  

It is essential that people are guarnteed their human rights... at that point... it matters very little who your parents were.. why do you think so many kids rebel against their parents?  it is a human drive for individuality.  this is of course, something that women understand less than men.  

If a society is not free.. then who your parents are is even less meaningful.   The government takes over the role when the child is of age.

I really don't expect you to understand any of this but feel free to insert a song or a poem that has nothing to do with the subject.

lazs

I swear, Lazs, you seem to put everything in context of yourself personally.

The gist of the whole thing was about empathy for other people and their circumstances of birth... not your personal situation of birth, dear!

soooo... whatever... what ever you say don't mean to upset you!

Thanks for answering

Seems like ever since my "60-mile leash" quip you haven't been civil to me anymore. I thought we were making progress. It was just a tease in fun! promise!

I still like you ok.

TIGERESS

[lazs2]

again.. you are not reading and comprehending.   I said that empathy had nothing to do with it.

You then asked me a bunch of questions about what "I" thought... I answered in that context.   You asked me if I thought the rhetorical questions you asked were true.

I said that no... they were drivel.   I explained not only my own situation but that of any person who was in a free country as opposed to one that was not.

I also think that I am being quite civil but trying to get you to not wander off into lala land is getting frustrating.

you ask questions... I answer.. you ignore the answers and call them a personal attack.    The questions were stupid so I figured they didn't need answering... when you insisted.. I patiently explained how I could not agree with the premise laid out in the questions and why I could not.


do you disagree with any of my answers?  is there something about em that you don't understand?  something I am not clear on...or.. do you simply want to go on to the next subject or song or explain how none of it matters if you can't multitask?

I am not sure that multi-task means that you don't stay on one thread of thought long enough to get a grasp of it or even... that if that is what it means... that is is much of a good thing.

lazs

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by lazs2
again.. you are not reading and comprehending.   I said that empathy had nothing to do with it.

You then asked me a bunch of questions about what "I" thought... I answered in that context.   You asked me if I thought the rhetorical questions you asked were true.

I said that no... they were drivel.   I explained not only my own situation but that of any person who was in a free country as opposed to one that was not.

I also think that I am being quite civil but trying to get you to not wander off into lala land is getting frustrating.

you ask questions... I answer.. you ignore the answers and call them a personal attack.    The questions were stupid so I figured they didn't need answering... when you insisted.. I patiently explained how I could not agree with the premise laid out in the questions and why I could not.


do you disagree with any of my answers?  is there something about em that you don't understand?  something I am not clear on...or.. do you simply want to go on to the next subject or song or explain how none of it matters if you can't multitask?

I am not sure that multi-task means that you don't stay on one thread of thought long enough to get a grasp of it or even... that if that is what it means... that is is much of a good thing.

lazs

You are really upset about our superior multi-tasking brains, huh? lol

Did you ever read "Men are from Mars; Women are from Venus"?

...a logical explaination of why we need, thus have, multi-tasking brains and you guys don't need, thus don't have, multi-tasking brains.

In reading the Quran it becomes apparent that it is addressed exclusively to men with very rare exceptions.

It's focus on men and its addressing to men is a singular theme throughout.

You would like it.

Oh, and Bat would like it too... you guys get to have up to four wives... not counting additional allowances of female slaves.

The Quran even goes into detail on wife beating instructions.

It's an owner's manual.

Browse the book.

TIGERESS

[Tigeress]

The Owners Manual : The Quran by Mohammed

How many of you will bother to read?

a quote from the Quran: [17.14] Read your book; your own self is sufficient as a reckoner against you this day.

TIGERESS