Author Topic: "N. Korea claims nuke"  (Read 2977 times)

Offline Kieran

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"N. Korea claims nuke"
« Reply #60 on: November 19, 2002, 12:13:14 PM »
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And I go absolutely mad when our own TV feeds us nazi/yankee view on history accusing Soviet people of all possible sins.


You sweet-talker, you. ;)

Offline mietla

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"N. Korea claims nuke"
« Reply #61 on: November 19, 2002, 12:15:55 PM »
What the fcuk are you talking about?

Remember that some of us lived in both systems.

Ask me what I think about socialism/communism. Or read my previous post, my position is very clear. Communism kills not only the individual but it also destroys the fabric of a society. Capitalism works but.... you have to work. So no wonder that some lazy losers prefer socialist "free" bowl of rice than a capitalist Filet Mignon for which you have to work your bellybutton off.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #62 on: November 19, 2002, 12:16:34 PM »
If you can't read what I posted above - I think it's not a problem of my English.

Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
Then of course we could talk about Japan... after the 2nd atomic bomb, Japan tried to sue for peace by going through Russian channels. Big mistake- the Russians promptly declared war and invaded. Only the swift acceptance of unconditional surrender by the Americans and British kept the Russians from swallowing up a lot of the Japanese Islands. And like Germany, once the country was rebuilt it was handed back over to the Japanese people, and autonomy restored. Again, ask the Japanese, don't trust American history books.


Again I have to answer this roadkill for the twelvth time. Soviet war against Japan was arranged in Teheran and Yalta, "no later then 3 months after the war in Europe is over". Yankees asked Stalin to help them and defeat the Japanese continental army. You asked - we did, killing thousands of Soviet soldiers after the war was over.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #63 on: November 19, 2002, 12:23:47 PM »
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
As for your government question... the US never forcefully imposed it's will or it's policies on any nation, liberated, occupied, or otherwise.


I srongly recommend you to go read some books.

One example: do you know how the state of Panama appeared? How American, to use cruisers and marine corps to cut the part of a soverign country with only purpose of stealing the channel zone!


Quote
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
If all of those nations were willfully Russia's, and indeed not forcefully invaded and occupied... why did they become independent with the fall of the Soviet Union?
-SW [/B]


They didn't become "independent", they simply got a new master.

I still await for answers on questions I asked. Learn to be responsible for your words.

Offline easymo

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"N. Korea claims nuke"
« Reply #64 on: November 19, 2002, 12:32:06 PM »
"What the fcuk are you talking about?

Remember that some of us lived in both systems.

Ask me what I think about socialism/communism. Or read my previous post, my position is very clear. Communism kills not only the individual but it also destroys the fabric of a society. Capitalism works but.... you have to work. So no wonder that some lazy losers prefer socialist "free" bowl of rice than a capitalist Filet Mignon for which you have to work your bellybutton off.
"
 This is so good I am going to save it on my computer.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #65 on: November 19, 2002, 12:38:13 PM »
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Did we invade Cuba?
-SW


You tried, but got your bellybutton kicked by 15 year old kids with rifles. Later the independance of Cuba relyed only on agreement between Nikita and JFK, after we forced you to get nuclear missiles out of Europe.

How about such a POV? Quite different from that stupid movie "13 days"?

Offline Sikboy

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« Reply #66 on: November 19, 2002, 12:49:18 PM »
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Originally posted by Boroda
 Later the independance of Cuba relyed only on agreement between Nikita and JFK, after we forced you to get nuclear missiles out of Europe.


While it is true that we taded an agreement to not invade Cuba in exchange for the removal of Soviet Missiles, I'm not sure I know of any US or Nato forces that were removed from Europe? Perhaps you mean the Jupiter Missiles in Turkey? And if so I believe that you're mistaken.

-Sik
You: Blah Blah Blah
Me: Meh, whatever.

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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« Reply #67 on: November 19, 2002, 12:50:19 PM »
Boroda, are you talking about Bay of Pigs?

In which case, you may want to be informed that they were a Cuban exile force... not Americans. They had support of the CIA, but that's a lil' different than rolling our Navy to their coast and our Marines on their land.

Your POV is nothing more than dillusional Communist rhetoric that you've been fed for the past 30 years because you had nothing else to read.

Communist Russia destroyed anything they didn't want you to read or hear.
-SW

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #68 on: November 19, 2002, 12:51:44 PM »
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Originally posted by mietla
What the fcuk are you talking about?

Remember that some of us lived in both systems.

Ask me what I think about socialism/communism. Or read my previous post, my position is very clear. Communism kills not only the individual but it also destroys the fabric of a society. Capitalism works but.... you have to work. So no wonder that some lazy losers prefer socialist "free" bowl of rice than a capitalist Filet Mignon for which you have to work your bellybutton off.


It's partialy true, but the problem is too complicated to describe it in one sentence. People who worked their bellybutton off in USSR had not only Filet Mignon, but caviar too. Another example: look at China. They didn't waste the ideology as Gorby and his gang did, they only have let people work without almost any restrictions.

It can also be viewd from different points, political, economical, social, military and philosophical.

How about such a view: Russia now doesn't have to feed socialist countries, but now it faces the economical agression of so-called "developed countries", or "golden billion" living by exploiting the rest of the world.

It's a popular point of view here, but it's correct only to some extent too.

Mietla, Poland had a very liberal regime compared to the USSR.

Again: both systems have their good and bad sides. I prefer what we have now, I am still young enough to work hard, but many old people who worked all their life don't have anything now. They have spent their lives on defending our country from the enemy - and the enemy is still here.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #69 on: November 19, 2002, 12:54:40 PM »
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Originally posted by Sikboy
While it is true that we taded an agreement to not invade Cuba in exchange for the removal of Soviet Missiles, I'm not sure I know of any US or Nato forces that were removed from Europe? Perhaps you mean the Jupiter Missiles in Turkey? And if so I believe that you're mistaken.

-Sik


AFAIR Jupiters were deployed in European part of Turkey. Or just across the Marble sea.

Anyway, the whole Cuban missile adventure was worth it, and only the word given to Robert Kennedy prevented USSR from turning it into a brilliant propaganda victory.

Offline Sikboy

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« Reply #70 on: November 19, 2002, 01:00:36 PM »
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Originally posted by Boroda
AFAIR Jupiters were deployed in European part of Turkey. Or just across the Marble sea.

I guess that's just a question of Geography. :)

However, I stand corrected. According to http://www.nuclearfiles.org/  The Jupiter missiles were withdrawn from Servince in Nov. 1962, just after the hulabalu.
For some reason, I thought we kept them around for a while longer.

-Sik
You: Blah Blah Blah
Me: Meh, whatever.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #71 on: November 19, 2002, 01:00:38 PM »
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Boroda, are you talking about Bay of Pigs?

In which case, you may want to be informed that they were a Cuban exile force... not Americans. They had support of the CIA, but that's a lil' different than rolling our Navy to their coast and our Marines on their land.

Your POV is nothing more than dillusional Communist rhetoric that you've been fed for the past 30 years because you had nothing else to read.

Communist Russia destroyed anything they didn't want you to read or hear.
-SW


Castro's little gang can also be described as "Cuban exile force". Anyway -you prepared an invasion agains souverign country, armed le invasion force and trained them forseveral years - and got your bellybutton kicked, being too afraid of Soviet missiles to use your own army.

Here we come to the original subject: the only way to talk to American government is the way of force. Only thing that can stop the looneys is the direct nuclear threat.

Why don't you simply leave North Korea alone?

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #72 on: November 19, 2002, 01:02:40 PM »
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Again I have to answer this roadkill for the twelvth time. Soviet war against Japan was arranged in Teheran and Yalta, "no later then 3 months after the war in Europe is over". Yankees asked Stalin to help them and defeat the Japanese continental army. You asked - we did, killing thousands of Soviet soldiers after the war was over.


Baloney. When was Yalta? When did Russia declare war? That's right, three days before Japan's surrender. Thanks for the "help".

Remember the B-29's that had to land in Russia after bombing Japan? Thanks for giving them back... oh, wait, you had a non-aggression pact with Japan, right? That's why you kept the B-29s of your allies, copied them, renamed them, and then flew them as your own in the post-war Russia. Go ahead, spin that, baby.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2002, 01:07:13 PM by Kieran »

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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« Reply #73 on: November 19, 2002, 01:02:47 PM »
Because we have military personnel in South Korea.
-SW

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #74 on: November 19, 2002, 01:10:11 PM »
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Originally posted by Sikboy
I guess that's just a question of Geography. :)

However, I stand corrected. According to http://www.nuclearfiles.org/  The Jupiter missiles were withdrawn from Servince in Nov. 1962, just after the hulabalu.
For some reason, I thought we kept them around for a while longer.

-Sik


It's a question of missile ranges :)

The whole deal started after Khruschev's visit to Bulgaria, when Bulgarian leaders brought him on an excursion to Turkish border and pointed finger saying: "Look, yankees have their nuclear missiles right there!". So Nikita looked at the map and decided to place missiles on Cuba...

"13 days" is a nice movie, but I was enraged by the fact that trading Jupiters for Cuban missiles is declared "unfair" and "impossible". How else did you expect Nikita to persuade you to remove the missiles threatening European part of the USSR?

The whole Cold War was a game of countermeasures from both sides.