So that's what Islam is to these guys, eh..

[ravells]

Did a quick google search, and couldn't find any Arab leaders directly quoted as condemning the prisoner atrocities either. Perhaps someone can find something.

Why are they being so quiet about the Berg killing? The only conclusion I can come to is because they may feel that the statement of condemnation may be unpopular amongst a significant proportion of their own people - which, if it is true, is a pity.

Ravs

[Toad]

Six, we can't leave now. There's that issue of trust. We did those things you said but we also promised to rebuild the country and give them a shot at governing themselves without a civil war to determine the leadership.

I think there's two basic reasons you won't hear anything from the Islamic leadership.

One: Some of them do indeed dislike us intensely. They have no condemnation to give over this killing. They support it in their hearts.

Two: What Ravs said. There are some decent folks in positions of power but they are afraid to speak out. For fear of losing influence, for fear of losing position or power. To me, this is worse than the folks in case One. If Islamic leaders are too fearful to condemn such an act for fear their followers will turn on them or that they will bring down A-Q upon themselves, well, they aren't much in the way of "leaders" then are the? They're followers and they're letting the most violent of their religion "lead" the way.

[Rude]

Originally posted by Yeager
Some might say that God is a terrorist.  I might actually think about it but I suspect that God is whatever anyone wants God to be.

There's only one God Yeag:)

Hope you're doin well....we all miss ya

[Saurdaukar]

To the usual suspects:

Why, for the love of Allah, does the following hold true?

Young man with a rifle shoots prarie dogs infront of a camera.  You cry out 'an act of unspeakable cruelty!' and chant for his death at the hands of mutant bears.

Young man with a knife cuts off the head of another human being infront of a camera.  You attempt to justify his actions.

May you live in interesting times, as they say.

[Rude]

Originally posted by Yeager
Im reminded of a story in Acts about how a old man volunteered to sell ALL his belongings to give the money to Peter (I think it was Peter).  But the old man kept some money for himself and lied about it.  Just then Peter humiliated the old man and God smite the old man and killed him right there on the spot.  Then the wife, an old women came to Peter hours later and Peter asked the old women if she knew what the old man had done with the money, the old women lied and said no and God killed her too, right then and there.  This was the story where I put the book down.

Read chapter 4 as well Yeag.

What you may think is right or wrong may not be the issue at hand. Just remember....God will not be mocked....by any of us. There is alot at stake thru the events unfolding in our lives...it's not a game nor is it just history.

[Westy]

Best I could do Toad with the small, moving target you and a few others want hit.  I don't think you're going to get headlines copies of anyone's apology or condemnation of this guys murder.  You want to stew in some kind of pseudo-indignation then have at it. I don't have time left today, nor the care to at this point, to change your mind.



"Young man with a knife cuts off the head of another human being infront of a camera. You attempt to justify his actions."

 I don't think this was aimed at me but I'll reply anyway. I don't see anyone trying to show justification in anyway.   I keep seeing that assinine accusation pop up here and on AGW and it's become as bad as the idiotic over-use of the word "terrorist"

[Toad]

Yeah, Westy.. like it's totally unrealistic to expect the authority figures of Islam or of the governments of Islamic countries to condemn this act.

Well, I guess it is to some people. To others worldwide, the Islamic silence on this issue is deafening.

But hey, I don't blame you for getting out of the thread.

It's tough to defend their silence....... as you've shown.

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by Toad
Six, we can't leave now. There's that issue of trust. We did those things you said but we also promised to rebuild the country and give them a shot at governing themselves without a civil war to determine the leadership.

Right, but that was with the assumption we would have their support. Why the hell should we rebuild Iraq if we can't get any support from it's leaders? If the anti-American sentiment grows, and the killings continue w/o any support, then screw em, let them sort it out themselves. Either they are with us, or they are not, if they are not, cya.

[Westy]

It's not unrealistic. Never said it was.


"It's tough to defend their silence....... as you've shown."

 No need to be an arse Toad.  I'm not defending anything done, or not, by anyone.  The only thing you could possibly misconstrue (not that YOU would ever do that) as defending anyone is giving the Arba world the benefit of the doubt DUE TO THE TIME ZONE difference.

[SavedSaint]

i have never agreed with this war.

America seems to always stick its nose where it doesn't belong.
Sure people everywhere are worried about terroist and bombs and etc..

And i totaly agree that beheading a person and mistreetment of prisoners does not justify anything

But we can not blame everyone for a few mistakes.
There are good people over there and bombing all of them only will cause for further hate.

and the circle of hate will continue..

its got to stop somewhere..

[Naso]

Originally posted by ravells
Why are they being so quiet about the Berg killing? The only conclusion I can come to is because they may feel that the statement of condemnation may be unpopular amongst a significant proportion of their own people - which, if it is true, is a pity.

Ravs

Agree with Ravs, and, partially, with Toad.

Strange, but true.

[Rude]

Originally posted by Westy
It's not unrealistic. Never said it was.


"It's tough to defend their silence....... as you've shown."

 No need to be an arse Toad.  I'm not defending anything done, or not, by anyone.  The only thing you could possibly misconstrue (not that YOU would ever do that) as defending anyone is giving the Arba world the benefit of the doubt DUE TO THE TIME ZONE difference.

So you're basically saying that given some more time, condemnation by the Arab world is forthcoming?

How long should we all wait?

[AKIron]

Originally posted by Dowding
Clearly irony is not your strong point. Or reading comprehension, for that matter.

I said the US and its agents have to be held accountable for its actions, if it is to claim the moral high ground. I did not say the people responsible for murder and mistreatment were typical of the US servicemen or civilians - but they are representatives and as such should be brought to justice so that the reputation of the US is not brought into disrepute. I'm sure that will be the case. Otherwise the actions of this minority will seen to be an acceptable facet of American culture/behaviour.

My reading comprehension is fine thanks. It is your capacity for logic that seems to be short here. Let me spell it out for you; You are calling the very few servicemen/women representatives of the US while claiming that the Muslim "soldiers" are not representative of Islam. Your bias and ignorance are showing.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Westy

 No need to be an arse Toad.

Seems we agree then.

As for your "defense"...... well, as I look at your posts, they consist mostly of either "proof" that a few Islamic "men in the street" did indeed condemn this act or reasons why the "responsible Islamic leaders" haven't commented.

What would you call that approach to this subject?

[mosgood]

I think we'll see leaders of Islam come forth to condem this...   it just hasn't happen yet.

They have to.  It goes against what they claim their relgion is all about... they'll need to distance themselves