Question to Finns

[genozaur]

Originally posted by bikekil
Genozaur,
Our nation is doing better and better every year since we kicked commies outta here in '89, but thanks for your concern :-)

Honestly, not really know what good advice and what wise people you mean and would be keen to know it.
Or maybe you mean we should listen the good advice that Russia said? Well... we had to follow Soviet Union orders for a loooong time, and only mantally ill people can say that it wa sgood for us... well, i'm sure we will do (and we are doing) way better once listen to ourselves

Oh, and by the way, look at your goverment pages, as as i heard you finally said something about Katyn and it soulnds like your govermant agreed with Poland.

What I was repeatedly saying in my post to you is the fact that NOT DECLARING WAR ON THE USSR was a wise decision of the Polish government and the Commander-in-Chief of the Polish Army Ryzd-Smigly. And that puppet Sokorsky was really a fool.

 You are just so much brainwashed that you are refusing even a  slightest thought about these facts to penetrate your scull.
 And it's all because in your false books everything is upside down : Ryzd-Smigly is "the traitor" (together with all Polish government ?), and Sikorsky is a "hero" who raised his voice against Stalin.

[Raven_2]

to bik

>>I was trying to give you not political example that is representing a similar thing, so the word "allies" don't match perfactly here, but the picture is clear.. and there is no room for a propaganda here. that are the facts.

Bah. I never said that attack on Poland was good thing. Only said that USSR and nazi weren`t allies, cause alliance it`s not only a coordinated actions, but official status. USSR and nazi don`t help each other to fight with other side. They divide Poland - but they don`t make plans of coordinated attack.

USSR/England/USA were allies. German/Italy/Japan were allies. USSR/German weren`t allies, even if then agreed about dividing Poland. They don`t help each other in fight with poles, I suppose.

Sure, this dividing and R-M pact wasn`t so good shiny thing, but it helps USSR a lot - we gain some time to invest in our military and prepare to war. Sad thing, that we don`t have time to reallocate all our troops to borders, so 180 nazi divisions fight with three groups of soviet ~50 divisions each with 200-300 km beetwen fights. That`s the main reason of first years mess.

[bikekil]

Genozaur, the way you are avoiding to answer my questions or any "salt" of what i'm posting to you is just brilliant, instead of that you are serving the "border conflict" theory and refering to your version of being wise, thet is to do not declare a war to the Soviets who already attacked Poland, but then you someway can't see that when armies of two countries are fighting, you have a war and a side who stike on the other is an attacker, finally that if one country grab half of other country's land, it's not a border conflict - that you can't see

Then, what is the point in declaring war to  a country who already attacked your land? The declaration is pointless in fact, as you are already in a state of war

Other than that, Sikorski, made a right decision to declare war to Russia afterwards. Surely it change nothing from a military point of view, as Poland wa sconquered, but if you know a bit about a political side of things, you have to admit that it was a political decision (in my opinion a wise decision) and Sikorski made it as a hear of 4th military power during the WW2... 4th biggest military power, who had no country itself, but got the opportunities and equipment from the western Alles.
Declaring a war to the Soviets was a demonstration and declaration of something - of a fact that we will not remember who attacked us on 17.09.1939 and we won't let it be.

Happened that we got traded to Stalin after WW2, but still we managed to kicked the commies outta our lands


Now, you can back to the border conflict and "Stupid Sikorski" theories... but still,  why should i care?

[bikekil]

Originally posted by Raven_2
to bik

>>I was trying to give you not political example that is representing a similar thing, so the word "allies" don't match perfactly here, but the picture is clear.. and there is no room for a propaganda here. that are the facts.

Bah. I never said that attack on Poland was good thing. Only said that USSR and nazi weren`t allies, cause alliance it`s not only a coordinated actions, but official status. USSR and nazi don`t help each other to fight with other side. They divide Poland - but they don`t make plans of coordinated attack.

USSR/England/USA were allies. German/Italy/Japan were allies. USSR/German weren`t allies, even if then agreed about dividing Poland. They don`t help each other in fight with poles, I suppose.

Sure, this dividing and R-M pact wasn`t so good shiny thing, but it helps USSR a lot - we gain some time to invest in our military and prepare to war. Sad thing, that we don`t have time to reallocate all our troops to borders, so 180 nazi divisions fight with three groups of soviet ~50 divisions each with 200-300 km beetwen fights. That`s the main reason of first years mess.

Ok Raven. i hear you about it.
Of course, i wont' argue with the fact that R-M pack bought you some time to prepare and the time was what Soviets needed. Also you never said it was a good thing you are proud of, you are not a Genozaur
But as it apears we disagree upon a fact of an Allience.
In my opinion Soviet attack on Poland surely helped the Gemrnas as it forces Poland to fight on two fronts. It's a lot of help if you ask me.
Of course the fact that Poland were fighting with the Germans with majority of it's forces helped Soviets big time.

I never said that battleplans were prepared together by both, Germans and Soviets, but the whole idea of the attack on Poland was pre-planned and prepared together so i can't see how you can't call it an Allience. Surely, it bought Soviets some time as you said, so... i would say that Soviets and Germans were the Allies at the time - Soviets bought some time and grab some land by that Alliance whole Germans bought an assurance that they will have a time to attack on the West while they will be safe from the east.

Pretty good alliance where both sides benefits if you ask me

Btw, Raven if a can ask you, what is your take on Genozaur's comments here and there? I;m asking because he feels like being on your side, but what you are saying is pretty different at times.

[genozaur]

Originally posted by straffo
The Curzon line was and is a complete joke.
And If this line is ethnic I'm the next queen of England.

It's just a very practical justification of the deportation of  Polish-speaking people of this area.

Talking about stats :

Poles                          4,794,000  39.9%
Ukrainians and Ruthenians      4,139,000  34.4%
Jews                           1,045,000  08.4%
Belarusians                      993,000  08.5%
Russians                         120,000  01.0%
Lithuanians                       76,000  00.6%
Others and not given             845,000  06.4%

[/B]

Straf, I warned you to be careful with Wikipedia stats. You did not understand my hint and produced that biased statistics. Sorry, you've just done even worse :
 you reproduced only one half of that statistics !

Your next step is the following : you take the current statistics of the modern numbers of Native Americans in the USA today, and declare that their Home Lands are just a myth because such a few people can't even populate Manhattan.

Didn't you notice that the Wikipedia article on Curson Line is a specially intended piece of anti-Russian propaganda which from its  beginning LED YOU TO BELIEVE that Curson Line "has nothing to do with ethnic boundaries" ? At the same time somewhere closer to the end of the article the anonimous authors had to say a couple of mumbling words about the ethnic devide along the Curson Line. And the statistics they fed you are not dated. Don't you know why ? Because that article IS MEANT FOR THE GUYS LIKE YOU.
Anyway, it's never late to grow up and began using your brains.

[Raven_2]

to Thrawn

>>In the CCCP who owned the scarce resources? Individuals and/or corporations of individuals or the state?

During NEP times - individuals and the state. After and before that mostly state, but there were some commercial undertakings, even foreign.

>>How can you explain that the rest of the CCCP is so much poorer than western countries.

Hah :-) In USA now ~10% of peoples cannot feed themself at all time (according to New York Times). In USSR *all* people have food and flats and stuff, there weren`t homeless or beggars."Poorer"? Sure, standarts of living were lower, but it`s because economics was oriented onto state needs - heavy industry and so on. So, I don`t think, that USSR (as a country) was "poorer". Ordinary USSR citizien was poorer then ordinary citizien of developed Europe country. But, well... There is not so uncommon here to had two or even three higher education. And if you ever needed medical care (including surgery) you can get it without spending money on it - all of this were (and particaly is) free. And USSR medicine was best in the world - by standarts of International Helthcare Organization (rough translation from russian, don`t know original naming). So, was it poorer? No. If you like economics, you can compare gross data for USSR and other countries.

>> Anytime a government misallocates resources where they think they should go, instead of were there is an actually market demand and you destroy competition damage is done to the economy and to the standard of living of the populous.

Sure, and without government you have monopolies formed - MS and so on - and this destroys competition very fast. Pure market is no less idiocy as pure planned.

[Raven_2]

to bik

>>4th biggest military power, who had no country itself, but got the opportunities and equipment from the western Alles.

Nazi, USSR, Japan, England, USA, poles. Who was fifth and sixth, then, if poles were fourth?

>>Btw, Raven if a can ask you, what is your take on Genozaur's comments here and there? I;m asking because he feels like being on your side, but what you are saying is pretty different at times.

Well, I dunno. There is no "sides" for me, only individuals with their opinions. It`s one of the russian (and finish also, according to Linus Torvalds at "Just for Fun") features: we have individual minds, self-contained in some way.

[genozaur]

Originally posted by straffo
You needed 1 full year to come  defend your ally and it's with the help of the Nazi ?

Are you sure the Pole are one who should feel guilty in this case ?

No one should forget Russia was in bed with Satan one full year.

And the result of that hellish liason is poor Straffo.

[genozaur]

Originally posted by Raven_2
to Holden

>>You're an idiot, genozaur.

USA living change people in that way very fast, Holden...

Генозавр, не обижайся. Хотел подколоть.

Rave, it's OK.

[straffo]

Originally posted by genozaur
Straf, I warned you to be careful with Wikipedia stats. You did not understand my hint and produced that biased statistics. Sorry, you've just done even worse :
 you reproduced only one half of that statistics !

You asked for the stats , I posted them

Your next step is the following : you take the current statistics of the modern numbers of Native Americans in the USA today, and declare that their Home Lands are just a myth because such a few people can't even populate Manhattan. [/B]

But it would be an apple/orange comparaison.

Didn't you notice that the Wikipedia article on Curson Line is a specially intended piece of anti-Russian propaganda which from its  beginning LED YOU TO BELIEVE that Curson Line "has nothing to do with ethnic boundaries" ? At the same time somewhere closer to the end of the article the anonimous authors had to say a couple of mumbling words about the ethnic devide along the Curson Line. And the statistics they fed you are not dated. Don't you know why ? Because that article IS MEANT FOR THE GUYS LIKE YOU.
Anyway, it's never late to grow up and began using your brains. [/B]

Proove me the Curzon line had no impact on the local population.

[genozaur]

Originally posted by Raven_2
to Thrawn

>>You are confusing politics (the allocation of power) with economics (the allocation of scarce resource).

Still don`t understand? Communism it`s a form of democracy. Like liberal democracy, parlamental democracy and so on. This word has nothing to do with economic models (planned economy, in our case). Sure, ideologicaly, pure communism cannot coexist with market. But pure communism never exist.

Communism has nothing to do with soviet economic model, cause communism is

>>Why is East Germany so poor compared to West Germany?

Well, statistically, East Germany was poor comparing to West side long before WW2. Didn`t you blame England for poorness in India, yes? This not caused by british occupation, I suppose. It`s because of lack of resources, unlucky geographical point and so on.

The above post has been corrupted "cause communism is."

RAVEN, when typing the post GO to FILE and hit WORK OFFLINE. When you are done typing your text, COPY IT INTO THE EDITOR PROGRAM FILE ON YOUR COMPUTER. Then EXPECT TO BE DISCONNECTED. Reestablish Internet connection, and IMMEDIATELY SEND YOUR POST. Be patient, cuz THE PROCESS OF SENDING YOUR POST MAY TAKE UNEXPECTEDLY LONG TIME.
Otherwise EXPECT GLITCHES which will CORRUPT THE TEXT IN YOUR POSTS.
Don't worry, you are just screened for truthfulness by the FBI radar.

[Raven_2]

to genozaur

>>RAVEN, when typing the post GO to FILE and hit WORK OFFLINE.

8-) Post corrupted cause I edit them after post and forgot delete this part. Please, don`t treat me as idiot anymore :-) I just little absent-minded at morning (9 AM here).

[genozaur]

Originally posted by Raven_2
to genozaur

>>RAVEN, when typing the post GO to FILE and hit WORK OFFLINE.

8-) Post corrupted cause I edit them after post and forgot delete this part. Please, don`t treat me as idiot anymore :-) I just little absent-minded at morning (9 AM here).

No problem, Rave.

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by Raven_2

8-) Post corrupted cause I edit them after post and forgot delete this part. Please, don`t treat me as idiot anymore :-) I just little absent-minded at morning (9 AM here).

Why not?

[Raven_2]

to MiloMorai

Direct offense is a common way for you to talk? Then I advise you to not going to Russia ever, cause here you get kick in your face fast for such attitude.