Question to Finns

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by Raven_2
to MiloMorai

Direct offense is a common way for you to talk? Then I advise you to not going to Russia ever, cause here you get kick in your face fast for such attitude.

Well stop acting like you are one.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Raven_2
And now you blame Soviets for counter-attack in 1939? :-)

I realize I am shouting at the wind, or at least it's intellectual equivalent, but what the hell here goes.

Just whom did the Soviets counter attack?  

In order to counter attack, one must first be attacked.  In all my history books, I cannot find the names of the Polish regiments that attacked the CCCP.

The Nazis and the Soviets attack Poland in concert.  That made them for that moment allies indeed.

[Holden McGroin]

Genozaur and Boroda:

I used "shambles" as a descriptor of the Soviet economy as a relative term.

During Stalin's first 5 year plan, which concentrated on agriculture, from 1929 and 1934 the number of cattle in the country dropped from 58 million to 33.5 million. The number of horses dropped from 32.6 million to 17.3 million. Livestock totals did not reach their pre-Five Year Plan levels again until the mid-1950’s.  Steel production dramatically increased, was only 60% of Stalin's goal.

The second five year plan, ending with CCCP almost catching Germany in steel production, but failing to reach the recommended production levels in such crucial areas as coal, oil, and cement production.

While the CCCP's economy grew at 12 to 13% in the 1930's, 2 times nothing is still nothing.

It grew at spectacular rates percentage wise, but when the CCCP fell apart, it's economy was about the same as Holland.  50 years of double digit growth, and no bigger than the economy of the Netherlands.


edit> Vikings, Magyars, and Mongols are Barbaric tribes, and as Russians are decendants of Viking trading culture that stretched from the Baltic to the middle east, Russians are barbarians, or at least decendants of such.

[Raven_2]

to Holden

>>Just whom did the Soviets counter attack?

There was smiley near. For dubmheads.

[Holden McGroin]

So then you back off previous statements that disavow Soviet alliance with Nazi Germany in the invasion of Poland with a smiley.

okay

[Raven_2]

to Holden

>>edit> Vikings, Magyars, and Mongols are Barbaric tribes, and as Russians are decendants of Viking trading culture that stretched from the Baltic to the middle east, Russians are barbarians, or at least decendants of such.

Sure. Alll france population are ex-gauls. Germans and england populated by barbarians too. And USA is a land of migrated barbarians (mostly criminals), mixed with unwashed indians and Negroes slaves from Africa. All nations in the modern world can be called barbaric, cause "barbaric" meant "not greek by birth" for ellins.

But Russians not "decendants of Viking trading culture", I assure you. Also we share nothing with Mongols and Magyars.

The Russians had its origins with the ancient nomadic Scythians who in the 7th century B.C. migrated north into the areas around the Black Sea. These early Slavic tribes over the next millenium gradually spread throughout the Steppe lands of Russia and into Eastern Europe. The majority of them eventually settled into village life, but some retained their free roaming horse based culture.

[Raven_2]

to Holden

>>So then you back off previous statements that disavow Soviet alliance with Nazi Germany in the invasion of Poland with a smiley.

I repeat again for you, my friend. If you think, that joint attack means alliance, then Poland can be called a nazi ally - both of them attack CZ at once. And if they allies and attack CZ - USSR ally, then there is a good point for USSR to help his ally (CZ) and attack one of it enemies (Poland or German). CZ decline offer to help. German and USSR conclude non-agression pact after that. But USSR and Poland not. So, if we accept your dumb statement about "joint attack means alliance", USSR had full right to treat Poland as nazi ally and enemy of USSR ex-ally (CZ). So, it had full right to attack it - again, according to your statement.

Smiley was just because of idiocy of your statement. "Counter-attack" word was just consequence of your (ill)logical claim about alliance.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Raven_2
And USA is a land of migrated barbarians (mostly criminals), mixed with unwashed indians and Negroes slaves from Africa.

Actually, Australia was the former penal colony.

And when Molotov and VonRibbentrob took out a map of Poland and agreed to a Nazi sector and a Soviet sector,
as posted earlier in this thread, they were forming a political agreement for a joint military campaign.

Call it what you want, but the dictionary says alliance is "A close association of nations or other groups, formed to advance common interests or causes"

[bikekil]

Originally posted by Raven_2
to Holden

>>So then you back off previous statements that disavow Soviet alliance with Nazi Germany in the invasion of Poland with a smiley.

I repeat again for you, my friend. If you think, that joint attack means alliance, then Poland can be called a nazi ally - both of them attack CZ at once. And if they allies and attack CZ - USSR ally, then there is a good point for USSR to help his ally (CZ) and attack one of it enemies (Poland or German). CZ decline offer to help. German and USSR conclude non-agression pact after that. But USSR and Poland not. So, if we accept your dumb statement about "joint attack means alliance", USSR had full right to treat Poland as nazi ally and enemy of USSR ex-ally (CZ). So, it had full right to attack it - again, according to your statement.

Smiley was just because of idiocy of your statement. "Counter-attack" word was just consequence of your (ill)logical claim about alliance.

Raven, lat me say it again:

In my opinion Soviet attack on Poland surely helped the Gemrnas as it forced Poland to fight on two fronts. It's a lot of help if you ask me.
Of course the fact that Poland were fighting with the Germans with majority of it's forces helped Soviets big time.

I never said that battleplans were prepared together by both, Germans and Soviets, but the whole idea of the attack on Poland was pre-planned and prepared together so i can't see how you can't call it an Allience? Surely, it bought Soviets some time as you said, so... i would say that Soviets and Germans were the Allies at the time - Soviets bought some time and grab some land by that Alliance whole Germans bought an assurance that they will have a time to attack on the West while they will be safe from the east.

Pretty good alliance where both sides benefits if you ask me.

Opposite to it, Poles grabbed a small piece of land (again, we shouldn't do it) and Poland did it WITHOUT any pact, or even a consultation with the Germany. I don't believe that by taking Zaolzie we actually helped the gemrnas, but of course you can have a different opinion... and if you are right, that still does not make Poland and Germany the allies. We never made the plans of Czech's partitions, of striking them together and so on (before the WW2 of course).

I hope you can see the difference?

[Fishu]

Originally posted by Raven_2
USA is a land of migrated barbarians (mostly criminals), mixed with unwashed indians and Negroes slaves from Africa.

Actually loads of europeans moved to the USA in hopes of better life etc.
The several colonies weren't made of criminals, but people who were willing to move to the USA.

I'd say Australia has had much more criminals sent there than to the USA, in percentages.
They aren't doing too bad nowadays.

[Toad]

Wow, the Soviet stables really filled up over the weekend!

I'll try to drop by and clean out a few stalls later today. There's a few mountains of Soviet horse doobers in here. Can't be healthy.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by NUKE
I guess you've never read Boroda's history books. They contain  the truth regarding all matters. The rest of the entire world is brainwashed and was denied the truth.

The first man brainwashed by Evil Soviet Propaganda was sir Winston S. Churchill. In September, 1939, he welcomed a Soviet "invasion" in "Poland", pointing at the obvious fact that Red Army saved millions of Poles from nazis.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Toad
Wow, the Soviet stables really filled up over the weekend!

I'll try to drop by and clean out a few stalls later today. There's a few mountains of Soviet horse doobers in here. Can't be healthy.

We kindly await for more lies from US Ministry of Truth, provided here for free by mr. Radio-Toad.

Toad, who told you that "facts" about KAL 707 forced to land in 1978? I need to look at that place, there must be some proof to the well-known fact that Evil Russians crucified Christ.

I could imagine that US military propaganda is based on utter lies, but never thought that everything is that bad

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by Toad
Wow, the Soviet stables really filled up over the weekend!

I'll try to drop by and clean out a few stalls later today. There's a few mountains of Soviet horse doobers in here. Can't be healthy.

I don't know why they don't go into business. They would make a fortune with all that manure fertilizer they produce?

Or, they could start a comedy act. They would have the audiance rolling in the aisles.  

[Toad]

Soon after entering Soviet airspace, the airliner was met by a Soviet jet. The pilot of Flight 902, Captain Kim Chang Ky, reported that when he caught sight of' the Soviet jet -- off the right side, not the left as specified by International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO, pronounced eye-kay-oh) standards -- he reduced speed, lowered his landing gear, and flashed his navigation lights on and off, all specified in procedures as signifying willingness to follow the Soviet fighter.

His calls on 121.5 were recorded by a Finnish air traffic control tower at Rovaniemi, which also noted the lack of any Soviet calls on the same frequency.

[/b]

But we all know what liars those Finns are, don't we Comrades?

As to daylight/dark:

For more than an hour Captain Kim flew at an altitude of only several thousand feet across the snow-covered peninsula, seeking a safe landing place. The Soviets had no idea where he was. He had aborted several approaches to possible sites when he spotted obstructions at the last moment. Finally, after nightfall, he found a frozen lake bed, just west of Kem, and let down smoothly, skidding in to a safe landing.

He flew around for an HOUR before nightfall.

Of course, the most important point to remember is that Civilian or not, the Soviets would STILL have SHOT IT DOWN.

They don't care if it's civilian.