Rate has doubled?

[Momus--]

Originally posted by Toad
Let's see how that went.

March 7, 1936 - German troops occupy the Rhineland. This violation of a "regional" aspect of the Versailles treaty is ignored by later to be "Allied" powers in Europe. They wait instead.

March 12/13, 1938. - Germany announces 'Anschluss' (union) with Austria. This "regional" occupation of a foreign country ignored by later to be "Allied" powers in Europe. They wait instead.

Oct 15, 1938 - German troops occupy the Sudetenland. This "regional" occupation of a foreign country ignored by later to be "Allied" powers in Europe. They wait instead.

March 15/16, 1939 - Nazis take the rest of Czechoslovakia. This "regional" occupation of a foreign country ignored by later to be "Allied" powers in Europe. They wait instead.

The problem with your argument is that notwithstanding any subsequent domestic legislation, as a signatory of the Versailles Treaty on the allied side the USA also failed to live up to its responsibilities to enforce the subsequent peace.

So, if you're going to plead domestic political expediency then the European powers can too. Where does that leave your trol..I mean your argument?

[Harry]

Originally posted by Toad
Yep, there was overwhelmingly strong sentiment to never get involved in Europe's regional conflicts again after WW1.

We even had laws against it. But I'm sure a Norsk education covered the US Neutrality Acts of 1935-1941.

That exactly my point; I don't blame you for not joining earlier, but I don't see why I should thank you either. Thank you America for defending yourselves?

Edit: If we were to follow your example if and when you get attacked we’ll just sit tight and watch. Maybe make a buck or two by selling you overpriced guns and outdated warships. And when we ourselves are attacked years later we join the fight and take all the credit for “saving you”. Then you can say “Thank you Europe!” (Yeah right! Like that’ll ever happen).

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Ripley, you are aware that you yourself said that the police had some atrocious response times away from the city?

I'm aware that they have atrocious response times because they're so rarely needed outside the cities. I know some villages which get 1 visit per week from police, and that's passing by for coffee.

In the large cities there are a lot of ethnic minorities, unemployed persons, career criminals and worst of all drug addicts. Wouldn't want to live there - and if I did I'd probably consider somekind of protection.

In our huge town of 60 000 population and living in rural area we don't keep our doors locked. That's how scared we are. Even though I disagree with her my wife always leaves her car unlocked on our yard. It's still there though.

Lately we've locked it for the night though because our house is so large that we can't hear if someone enters downstairs while we're in the bedroom. Mostly we lock it so nobody interrupts us in the bedroom when the kids are asleep..

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by straffo
We will see dead US citizen and a lot.

 

Maybe. But me thinks you would also see dead invaders alot too

From another thread

[lasersailor184]

That exactly my point; I don't blame you for not joining earlier, but I don't see why I should thank you either. Thank you America for defending yourselves?

The US voluntarily supplied war time materials to all allied countries.  Had they not done this, europe would have folded like a cheap tent.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

And had it folded Hitler would have had nothing else to do except to cut your oil supply lines and force you in.

[lazs2]

harry... never heard of you.

mr ripley.. I don't think we are that far off... if you stay in the lilly white countryside with little crime it is not as important have a way to protect yourself than if you live in your cities which are more like our general population makeup (minus the real bad cities) but...

I believe that you are being naive in that you seem to think that it is impossible for crime to come to you or that even... you are more likely to be hurt in an automobile accident that a seatbelt would help you than to be injured in crime that may injure you..

I hope for you and your families sake that your ignorance will not really matter and that the odds will be good enough to insure that it is not a factor.   Still... it makes you look silly all bundled up in a seatbelt all the time when you drive yet going around with a big trusting grin about crime and criminals.

As for the so called world wars.... you eurobarbarians start em....  we end em.
lazs

[lasersailor184]

No Ripley.  Germany was not a super power.  They could not have extended power very far.

Japan and the US were.


Anyway, had Europe folded, Hitler would have stopped.  He would have achieved what he set out to.  Afterwards, very slowly he'd start conquering more land, but he would not be able to cross into the americas.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Harry
And TWO years later when the war has spilled to Russia, Africa, the Middle-East, Asia, Oceania, and the Pacific ... America reluctantly joins the fight after being attacked herself. THANK YOU AMERICA!

The war spilled into Asia in 1931, but that was just a regional conflict.

I find it ironic that some give us grief for our reluctance to join World Wars (both of them) and many of the same now hold us accountable for being too quick on the trigger.

Harry, to not thankful and respect the sacrifice of any ally in WW2 is not a knowlegable position.   To realize that without the industrial power of the USA the allied effort probably would have come up short.

I respect the losses of the Soviet Union, and realize that their sacrifice was a huge piece of the allied victory, and without their effort the allies probably would have come up short.  Even though they were not fighting the Axis until they were attacked.

[mydavis]

Yes , why would germany declare war on the US and sink boats over a certain tonnage but try to keep passenger liners from being sunk ?, hmmmm


Maybe it was because the USA was shipping Iron, Oil, Munitions, etc to England and Europe and germany was trying to stop the support of the countries he was trying to conquer.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Anyway, had Europe folded, Hitler would have stopped. He would have achieved what he set out to. Afterwards, very slowly he'd start conquering more land, but he would not be able to cross into the americas.

Hitler had no idea about that, hence Africa Corps.

Lazs: Unless something changes radically I'm going to continue living the same way my father and forefathers lived their lives.. That life never included having personal weapons for self defense. Count out the wars.

Finland has very low differences in income. That brings good stability to the society. There aren't two million hispanics coveting my every valuable. Also the drug problem here is relatively low. In city owned housing you will see troubled people even here - but I've passed that stage luckily.

The main point is that the amount of handguns down here is so low that 99% of burglars never carry anything more than the odd crowbar. If an armed robber is caught somewhere it's major news headlines immediately.

And I like to keep it that way, too.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Momus--
The problem with your argument is that notwithstanding any subsequent domestic legislation, as a signatory of the Versailles Treaty on the allied side the USA also failed to live up to its responsibilities to enforce the subsequent peace.

Sorry, Chum.

In March 1920 the US Senate finally killed the Versailles treaty. The United States did not ratify the Treaty of Versailles and we did not join the League of Nations.

No ratification by Congress, no treaty by/with the US. No treaty, no obligations or responsibilities to "enforce the subsequent peace".

The US signed completely separate treaties with Germany and Austria on August 24/25, 1921.

Note this part of both treaties:

(2) That the United States shall not be bound by the provisions of Part I of that Treaty nor by any provisions of that Treaty including those mentioned in paragraph (I) of this Article which relate to the unless the United States shall expressly give its assent to such action.

The "Treaty" mentioned is the Versailles treaty. As in "shall not be bound by the provisions of Part I of that Versailles Treaty nor by any provisions of that Versailles Treaty".

[Harry]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I find it ironic that some give us grief for our reluctance to join World Wars (both of them) and many of the same now hold us accountable for being too quick on the trigger.

I have yet to see anyone “give you grief” for your reluctance to enter the war earlier. I have however on numerous occasions seen Americans playing the “WWII debt card” provoking a reaction from the European posters (like this one)

If someone owes you gratitude its Germany, Japan and possibly Italy for allowing them to exist. The rest of us owe you nothing.

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I respect the losses of the Soviet Union, and realize that their sacrifice was a huge piece of the allied victory, and without their effort the allies probably would have come up short.  Even though they were not fighting the Axis until they were attacked.

I would call that an understatement considering the Germans lost the battle for Moscow and started the long retreat to Berlin before you entered the war. Germany had practically lost the war already.

Originally posted by mydavis
Yes , why would germany declare war on the US and sink boats over a certain tonnage but try to keep passenger liners from being sunk ?, hmmmm

They didn’t. After December 11, 1941 the Germans conducted unrestricted submarine warfare against the Allies.

Originally posted by mydavis
Maybe it was because the USA was shipping Iron, Oil, Munitions, etc to England and Europe and germany was trying to stop the support of the countries he was trying to conquer.

When did Britain finally manage to pay off her war debts to you? In fact until the German declaration of war the US Government didn’t even stop American trade with Germany. Only the Royal Navy did that. What you call support, I call war profiteering.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Harry
That exactly my point; I don't blame you for not joining earlier,

[/b]

As a Norwegian, you probably shouldn't point the finger at anyone vis-a-vis WW2.

However, it's an oft heard refrain here, issuing forth from the Euro contingent.

The truth is that after WW1, the US wanted no more of European entanglements.

Defend ourselves? Check the history books on Hitler's view of a separate peace with America. Had we so decided, I do believe he'd have been happy to work that out with us, probably in early 1942 no less.

If we were to follow your example if and when you get attacked we’ll just sit tight and watch.

[/b]

Isn't that pretty much what Norway did?

 

take all the credit for “saving you”.

You don't keep up on these boards. The Russians actually won WW2 all by themselves and the aid given to them by the US sat unused in their warehouses for the duration.

Then you can say “Thank you Europe!” (Yeah right! Like that’ll ever happen).

You are right at last. It'll never happen. For more reasons than you want to read, reasons that primarily have their origin in the nature of Europe itself.

[Harry]

Originally posted by Toad
As a Norwegian, you probably shouldn't point the finger at anyone vis-a-vis WW2.

However, it's an oft heard refrain here, issuing forth from the Euro contingent.

The truth is that after WW1, the US wanted no more of European entanglements. [/B]

Like I said: I don’t blame you, but I don’t see any reason to thank you either.

Originally posted by Toad
Defend ourselves? Check the history books on Hitler's view of a separate peace with America. Had we so decided, I do believe he'd have been happy to work that out with us, probably in early 1942 no less. [/B]

Americans backing down after being attacked? Never heard of it (well there is Vietnam). A separate peace with America or perhaps even an alliance against Russia was Hitlers pipedream. He had already lost the war in Russia.

Originally posted by Toad
[BYou don't keep up on these boards. The Russians actually won WW2 all by themselves and the aid given to them by the US sat unused in their warehouses for the duration. [/B]

Yeah they pretty much did win the war all by themselves. Your supplies were a drop in the ocean and much of it did sit unused in warehouses. At least until they were sent to the smelters.

Originally posted by Toad
You are right at last. It'll never happen. For more reasons than you want to read, reasons that primarily have their origin in the nature of Europe itself.

You digress.