The FW-190 series is the most poorly flown plane in the game

[Anaxogoras]

I would think a neg g pushover points the nose down?  In this case, the pitch of the defender remains constant.

[Bronk]

I would think a neg g pushover points the nose down?  In this case, the pitch of the defender remains constant.

So your saying they are doing a flat, Neg g turn?  Now I really want to see film.

[zoozoo]

Ill take ANYONE to the DA in my 190 

[Anaxogoras]

So your saying they are doing a flat, Neg g turn?  Now I really want to see film.

Never caught this one on film.  I'll tell you what.  If someone from the 80th wants to come forward and tell us his perspective on it, I'm all ears.

[Bronk]

Never caught this one on film.  I'll tell you what.  If someone from the 80th wants to come forward and tell us his perspective on it, I'm all ears.

Fair enough, I'm still betting there is some vertical component to it though.

[Anaxogoras]

On some occasions the wings rolled more than 90 degrees, so in fact that would result in a little bit of pitch-up.  It's all about fooling the attacker into rolling and pulling lead for a deflection shot.  It worked well on me a couple of times, at least.  Like a lot of defensive maneuvers, you can't do it over and over again otherwise the attacker wises up.  A lot of people do the same thing every time.

[stodd]

Ill take ANYONE to the DA in my 190 

Ok

[Ack-Ack]

If someone from the 80th wants to come forward and tell us his perspective on it, I'm all ears.

While not a member of the 80th, I do probably have the most P-38s hours clocked in AH and what you described what basically is a flat, negative G turn is hardly a defensive maneuver I would recommend one employ.  At best, using the maneuver you describe might throw off the aim of the attacker on his gun pass but all that maneuver does is set you up for the attacker's follow up attack and your eventual death.

Now some P-38 drivers might use negative Gs as a precursor to a maneuver.  For example, if a bogie is diving on me from a high six position, I'll wait until he gets close enough and I'll then unload my plane (pushing negative Gs) to gain some energy quickly before rolling over into a Low Yo-Yo to meet the attacker.  

I've fought probably all the good P-38 sticks in this game and I have never seen one of them use the tactic you describe.  Why?  Because the good ones employ far better and effective maneuvers to defend themselves from a high attacking bogie.


ack-ack

[BaldEagl]

Whoever said the 180A-8 isn't competetive in the MA was just wrong.  I've got a 10.83 K/D rate in it on 70 combined kills plus deaths over the past six months and I suck.  No vulching but yes, some bomber kills (about 1/3-1/2 as a guess).  Those numbers were the same when I was in the hundreds of kills plus deaths in it over the same period earlier in the year (I was up around 250 K+D for a while).  That seems pretty competetive to me.  Like I said ealier, it's always among my best fighters and I personally think it's a monster in the MA.

I supplanted a lot of my A8 sorties with the K4 but even in the K4 I've never been able to match the success I have in the A8.

I guess its a matter of what you're used to.

[dedalos]

That is an amazing statement Ded...if everyone thought that way, it really WOULD be all Spits or the like all the time, you realize?

Well, I said fighter. Why did you assume a Spit?

[mechanic]

109A5 with 2cannons shouldnt have much trouble against half the planeset.

[Schlowy]

MG-FF are modelled as being little better than .50s as far as hitting power goes.  They do maybe 50-60% of the damage a 'normal' 20mm (i.e. Mg-151 or comparable), and maybe 20-30% of a Hizooka.

They also have the ballistics of a watermelon.

I hope we don't have the above oppinion.

Consider that this is almost like that prehistoric game Airwarrior3, when all planes only had one fire button; hence, we used up cannons first.
I would almost rather fire machine guns and the 20s at the same time and be able to fire the 30's separately.
Take a tiffy for example, two sets of cannons, which can be fired separately, the 190 has the extra machine guns and is seemingly penalyzed for it. sux!

[Ack-Ack]

I hope we don't have the above oppinion.

Consider that this is almost like that prehistoric game Airwarrior3, when all planes only had one fire button; hence, we used up cannons first.

In AW, all guns fired simultaneously when you pressed the trigger.  For example, if you fired the guns on the P-38J, the machine guns and cannons would fire at the same time.  It just happened that the cannon ammo would run out at the 75% mark then it was all machine guns after that.


ack-ack

[BnZ]

Well, I said fighter. Why did you assume a Spit?

V, I see it differently.  If I kill a spit while in a p40, C202, or 190 early model, I don;t see it as exhilarating.  I just killed some guy that has been in the game for 2 weeks or was AFK.  That is not a challenge.  I would have killed him if I was flying a bath tab.  I'd rather go against a pure fighter in a spit and get my arse haded to me because that would have been a hell of a fight.

I guess what I was in a fighter and fought my self in a 190, my self in the 190 would always die.  So killing someone while in a 190 only means he did not see you or his skill level is way lower than yours.  However, when you meet someone equal, your plane will not allow you to enjoy a good fight.  All it will provide to you is a way out of the fight, maybe.

You fly the La7 alot correct? Well, compared to a Spit16, it doesn't outclimb, out-turn, or out-roll it. The only thing the Lala has going against a Spit16 is top speed. DedA would always beat DedB in a Spixteen vrs. La7 fight, unless DedB ran. Therefore, any kills of Spixteen you have in La7 are meaningless because the opponent HAD to be less skilled than you or AFK for you to kill him with your Lala. Your logic, not mine.

Also, because, for example, the SpitV does not outdo the A6M5b in turning or indeed in any respect at typical MA alts EXCEPT top speed in level flight and dives, it is not a "fighter". You are just kidding yourself if you fly this because if you meet a Zero with an equal or better pilot at the stick, you will either Ho, run, or get owned eventually....once again, your logic, not mine.

Gee, I could compose quite a laundry list of things that "are not fighters" if the standard is "there are other planes they tend to be disadvantaged against in a 1v1 duel."

[toonces3]

and HOing, i usually dont make that remark out of the blue as you blindly stated. i only say, everynight when ridiculed; "hoing a plane with 20mms and 30mms is dumb on your part". ect.  and in all honesty, it is.

also taking shots at the 190 like this thread... it all just sounds like someone been gettin you a little much in the MA if you ask me. sounds like a stress relief complaint.

Ok, true enough.  I remember that exchange on 200 you're referring to, and you did say that.

I can assure you, though, that this isn't a griefer thread.  Of all the planes that I run into in the MA, the 190 is really one of the least feared by me specifically because of the reasons I already put forth.  I may not catch and kill alot of 190's, but I definately don't fear running into them.

Anyway, getting into a pissing contest with you gets me nowhere.  Tell ya what, next time I run into you in Bishland, maybe you'll let me wing up with you or a sortie or two and you can show me a few things.  I'm always willing to learn.
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