Good reason to have a conceal and carry permit......

[mechanic]

Why is it normal people always expect criminals to react rationaly?

It kinda sounds like you "agree with our gun Laws" you just dont agree that we should actually use them.

Where I come from we call injuries that result in 5 days in the ICU as "great bodily harm".

I'm sorry, what makes you think I am anything close to normal? Five days in ICU is pretty bad, but killing people to avoid it? Remember, we are not discussing gun laws. We are discussing a single event that turned out ok without the use of a weapon.

But it will not be the end of the matter. Now they will be emboldened to do it again. The next victim may not live.

Emboldened how? By facing criminal charges and possibly some bird? At the least some kind of criminal record.  Rowdy teenages get like this every now and then. If one of these idiots had been killed, no doubt we would have some big media hoohar about how he was a nice sweet innocent boy that got caught in the wrong crowd and died because of it.

[bcadoo]

I'm sorry, what makes you think I am anything close to normal? Five days in ICU is pretty bad, but killing people to avoid it? Remember, we are not discussing gun laws. We are discussing a single event that turned out ok without the use of a weapon.



Emboldened how? By facing criminal charges and possibly some bird? At the least some kind of criminal record.  Rowdy teenages get like this every now and then. If one of these idiots had been killed, no doubt we would have some big media hoohar about how he was a nice sweet innocent boy that got caught in the wrong crowd and died because of it.

Your idea of 'turned out ok' diverges from mine. 

Call me crazy, but I think I have a right to not be beaten by a pack of hoodlums and not go to the hospital, and furthermore I think that right gives me the authority to defend myself, with a weapon if necessary.

[mechanic]

I am not arguing aout that at all. You have 'the right' to do this. There is still a choice about if you do and this man's choice turned out much better than if he had shot someone to death. We are talking with the benifit of hindsight here. Men are built to take a beating if you feel especialy frail and vulnerable then you have 'the right' to shoot them. I am not arguing that point. If one of them pulled a weapon out, again, he had 'the right' to shoot them but still a choice. Bruising to head or ego will heal itself. Dead people are permanent. Everything turned out good due to his brave choices.

[Roundeye]

Your idea of 'turned out ok' diverges from mine. 

Call me crazy, but I think I have a right to not be beaten by a pack of hoodlums and not go to the hospital, and furthermore I think that right gives me the authority to defend myself, with a weapon if necessary.

^^^^
 

Alot of different opinions and speculation here.  Me:  I would draw and fire in an instant to protect myself and my family.  If any targets were suicidal enough to run TOWARDS my bullets, then I would lay down cover fire to make my way inside where I would quickly be able to deal with well over 50 targets .


And yes, I carry when I'm just hanging out in the yard.  Fortunately I live in a state and country that allows me to have and carry a weapon to defend myself and not become a helpless victim.


If the insane worst case happened and they all charged me while I was mowing them down and they were able to get to me, then I would just have to go down in a blaze of glory.....NOT as an unarmed victim.

[mechanic]

These were children...making mistakes. Not 50 taliban with AKs or aliens in Doom 3. You would become the most hated man in the your state. I can see the headlines 'Crazed home owner guns down teenagers in self defence. Is it time to review our gun laws?'

The more people that kill because they have no other skills to defend themself the more likely your gun laws will be turned against you eventualy. You dont want that. I dont want that. I want to come to the USA and shoot some beautifull guns on a target range. That freedom you have could be so easily abused and removed. Unless of course you really all would take arms against your government to stop it. Man, that would really suck.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

I'm sorry, what makes you think I am anything close to normal? Five days in ICU is pretty bad, but killing people to avoid it? Remember, we are not discussing gun laws. We are discussing a single event that turned out ok without the use of a weapon.



Emboldened how? By facing criminal charges and possibly some bird? At the least some kind of criminal record.  Rowdy teenages get like this every now and then. If one of these idiots had been killed, no doubt we would have some big media hoohar about how he was a nice sweet innocent boy that got caught in the wrong crowd and died because of it.

So, in order to allow a criminal to live, an innocent citizen should allow themselves to be beaten badly enough to spend a week in intensive care? Surely you cannot seriously believe that is a good trade.

You think those people will be concerned with a criminal record? Seriously? Getting away with something almost always emboldens the perp. They almost never think they were lucky and decide not to do it again, or do something worse. Criminal behavior escalates 99% of the time.

"Rowdy teenagers" do not "get like this every now and then". This is not a group of kids rolling yards, egging houses, and smashing mail boxes. This is a group of criminals, with a mob mentality, seeking to do serious and grave bodily harm to others.

Nothing personal, but you have absolutely zero grasp on the dynamics of an incident like this. None at all.

[Roundeye]

These were children...making mistakes. Not 50 taliban with AKs or aliens in Doom 3. You would become the most hated man in the your state. I can see the headlines 'Crazed home owner guns down teenagers in self defence. Is it time to review our gun laws?'

The more people that kill because they have no other skills to defend themself the more likely your gun laws will be turned against you eventualy. You dont want that. I dont want that. I want to come to the USA and shoot some beautifull guns on a target range. That freedom you have could be so easily abused and removed. Unless of course you really all would take arms against your government to stop it. Man, that would really suck.

First off, you would never hear much about it in the press because it would be a story of someone actually defending themself with a firearm.  You are only allowed to hear about the bad things and misuse of them.  You would have to get a copy of American Rifleman to read about a self-defence story.

Second, just what sort of "skill" would you use to defend yourself against a group of crazed attackers?

[kilo2]

These were children...making mistakes. Not 50 taliban with AKs or aliens in Doom 3. You would become the most hated man in the your state. I can see the headlines 'Crazed home owner guns down teenagers in self defence. Is it time to review our gun laws?'

The more people that kill because they have no other skills to defend themself the more likely your gun laws will be turned against you eventualy. You dont want that. I dont want that. I want to come to the USA and shoot some beautifull guns on a target range. That freedom you have could be so easily abused and removed. Unless of course you really all would take arms against your government to stop it. Man, that would really suck.

The home owner wouldnt have to kill anyone i think. A warning shot would most likely scattered the kids. Like you said there not soldiers. They would have ran off. I dont think they would return either knowing the person in there has guns and is willing to use them if need be.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

These were children...making mistakes. Not 50 taliban with AKs or aliens in Doom 3. You would become the most hated man in the your state. I can see the headlines 'Crazed home owner guns down teenagers in self defence. Is it time to review our gun laws?'

The more people that kill because they have no other skills to defend themself the more likely your gun laws will be turned against you eventualy. You dont want that. I dont want that. I want to come to the USA and shoot some beautifull guns on a target range. That freedom you have could be so easily abused and removed. Unless of course you really all would take arms against your government to stop it. Man, that would really suck.

Again, you do not understand at all. These were teenagers, bent on causing someone serious bodily harm. Had this man died, he would have been just as dead as if he were beaten by a 25 year old perp. Children, making mistakes? These were thugs, making a conscious decision. And depending on the mentality you are showing in order to be allowed to get away with it.

I'd just as soon be alive and well, and ignore what people think, as to be beaten or killed, so I don't have to worry about some morons hating me. And I can assure you, in order to prevent myself or someone else from being beaten and possibly killed, I'd have no qualms at all about shooting anyone attempting to issue said beating, especially if it were a large group.

I'm sure there are plenty who would take up arms against our corrupt government should it come to that. It has happened before. Hopefully we still have enough people with a spine left to do it again if it becomes necessary.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

The home owner wouldnt have to kill anyone i think. A warning shot would most likely scattered the kids. Like you said there not soldiers. They would have ran off. I dont think they would return either knowing the person in there has guns and is willing to use them if need be.

A warning shot would be illegal, and get your weapon confiscated, your permit revoked, and your freedom taken. You cannot fire waring shots. Ever. Firing a shot in the air is a felony in almost every jurisdiction in this country. And you are responsible for that bullet, where ever it goes, and what ever it does. Both in criminal and civil law.

[Roundeye]

I'm sure there are plenty who would take up arms against our corrupt government should it come to that. It has happened before.

That is exactly how the United States of America came to be. 

[mechanic]

'...and in that very instant of conversational revelation, it became clear to me that humanity was a self destructing mechanism with a finite lifespan..'

[Shuffler]

These so called children are a meanace to society. Since it is evident that their parents failed at the basics then it is up to the victims they attack to show them the way. If that means killing a few then so be it. To each his own... if you would rather you and your family be at the mercy of these so called children then heaven help you. If you would do what it takes to defend and protect your family then heaven help you too. I will defend my family.

I'm reminded of the 12 year old black youth who died during a robbery. His Mother was on the news saying what a fine young man he was and how helpful and loving he was.... Turns out he had a rap sheet about a mile long. He was being protected by folks who turn a blind eye because of age.

No matter what age someone is that kills you... your just as dead. No matter if the person is mentally capable of living on their own either.... your just as dead. Best to protect yourself and your family from whatever attacks you. No since in asking for an ID or trying to decide if you think the criminal is old enough to shoot or not. To me the criminal made the choice of whether or not it was worth dieing over way before I became involved.


I prefer not to be attacked or robbed. I also prefer not to shoot anyone. Follow my preferences on the first account and the second account will be followed too.

[Die Hard]

What Mechanic misses here is the fact that had the man been armed the attack would never have taken place. No one would have been hurt. If he had carried openly he wouldn't even have had to draw the gun.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

'...and in that very instant of conversational revelation, it became clear to me that humanity was a self destructing mechanism with a finite lifespan..'

Well, some of us humans have a strong self preservation instinct. Humanity will surely self destruct if the civilized and law abiding allow themselves to be fooled into sacrificing themselves in order to prevent harm from befalling some miscreants.