Serious question

[Kieran]

Un-fricken-believable...

[Tac]

You people take everything too seriously.

[Urchin]

Actually, Funkedup made a damn good point, and so did Tac.  That is pretty much why I 'care' what other people fly.  And to be honest, the only plane I really hate is the LA-7, because it outperforms the planes I like to fly in practically every area (except flat-turning for a few- and most Spit pilots should know that flat turning does jack toejam against a plane that will only BnZZzzz you).

Spits and N1Ks are generally to slow to inspire any fear in me, most of the time.  

I will say that some people's attitudes are sort of puzzling to me.  How can people say 'You can only tell me what to fly when you pay my monthly fee' without realizing that as a population, the people who inhabit the Main arena DO force people to fly certain planes or die.  For instance, the Me109E will see very low usage, forever.  The reason for this is that the Spit IX, Spit V, and N1K2 outperform it in every area.  A good pilot in a 109E has probably a 50% chance of winning a fight with 1 Spit or N1K2.. assuming the Spit or N1K pilot isn't very good and makes a lot of mistakes.  A good pilot in a 109E will probably die every sortie unless he flys in a big crowd of friendlies.  In a 109E, seeing a Spit IX is a lot like being in a Spit IX and seeing an Me262.. except the Spit IX can out turn you too.

The 109F has it even worse.  It is marginally faster than the Spit IX and N1K2, both of which out-perform it in every other area.  And it can't turn worth a damn compared to the 109E, so even a crappy Spit pilot can kill you if he can get within 2-3k and dive on you (and it wouldn't have to be a very steep dive either).

The G2 is a good plane, it can BnZ Spits and N1K2's, even with Gondolas.  So it isn't in the same category performance-wise as the 109E and F.  However... the La7 is the 109G2's "spitfire and N1K2".

G6 has it even worse than the G2 against the La-7.

G10 is a good plane, and unsurprisingly it is the most popular 109.  It combines the firepower of the G6 with (almost) the manueverability of the G2.  It is still dogmeat for an La-7, but it is invincible against N1K2s and Spits.  

The 190s have it a little better in my opinion.  

The A5 is fast enough to get away from a Spit or N1K- although they can hang within 1,000 yards spraying for an uncomfortably long time.  An La-7 will completely and totally own any 190A-5, assuming the La-7 pilot knows his bellybutton from a hole in the ground.

A8 has it worse than the A5- it doesn't accelerate as fast so a Spit IX or N1K will catch it if it tries to run, and it is practically dead if an La-7 gets anywhere within icon range.

D9 is the fastest 190.. and it is also the most popular.  Why?  Because it can run down planes that leave the A5 and A8 in the dust (in my opinion, thats why I fly it anyway).  D9 is good against any plane in the set, with the exception of the La-7.. which will tear it a new amazinhunk under practically any circumstances.  

So... the MA basically forces people to stay out of the early 109s unless they actually enjoy dying (and there are some that do).  I also believe it forces a LOT of people out of the 190A's, because their speed advantage over the Spit IX and N1K2 is negligible, and the La-7 will kill one with practically no effort.  

And I also DO think that people have a tendancy to pick planes from one of two criteria.  A:  They developed an interest in a particular plane before playing the game, or B:  They don't have an interest in any particular plane, and so choose the one that gives them the most perceived advantages with the fewest disadvantages.  I can only tell you to look at the usage of the N1K2 and La-7 if you disagree with me (as well as the constant "so whats the best plane?" messages on Ch2 in game).  Who had HEARD of the La-7 or N1K2 before they started playing AH (or WB, or the other one I forget the name of)?  My guess is not many.  So.. why are the N1K2 and La7 so popular?  Well, let me take a guess.  

N1K2-  Perceived strengths

- Turning.  
- Climbing (and before they declawed it, prop hanging)
- Acceleration (in a dive and level)
- Firepower (4 non-Hispano 20mm with a LOT of ammo- the ammo makes up for the cannon not being Hizookas)
-  It is faster than a Spit IX at low alt (so you can run away from them)

Perceived Weaknesses

- ...

La-7  - Perceived Strengths

- Speed (and no.. the La-7 isn't SLOW at high alt either)
- Speed
- Speed
- Climb rate (top 5 at least up to 10k)
- Acceleration (I'd guess top 5 here too)
- Still turns better than the D-9, P-51D, Tiffie, and 109G-10 (which are the other non-perk speed demons)

Perceived Weaknesses

- Firepower (which is still better than a Dora or G-10)

Furthermore... I'm no prophet, but I'll make a couple predictions.  If the Spit14 were unperked, you'd see N1K2 and Spit IX usage drop to 109E4-like levels practically overnight.  Why?  Because the percieved advantages of the Spit 14 are greater than those of the Spit 9 and N1K2.  

If HTC ever introduces a 4 Hizooka loadout for the Spit IX, you would see N1K2 usage drop to all time lows (approaching zero).  Why?  Because one of the few perceived advantages the N1K2 has over the Spit IX is that it has 4 cannon (albiet non-Hizookas).  Four cannon are MUCH easier to spray and pray with than 2 cannon.  Add in the fact that they are Hizookas and, presto!, N1K2 extinction.

[Monk]

I hate the RED planes, the ones above me are pretty crappy.......but I really hate the ones behind me.  The coolest planes are the ones taking off.

[Kieran]

I just can't take anyone that uses the word "Hizooka" seriously...

...honestly though, of course some planes make flying other planes more difficult to be successful. So? What makes me ill is the number of posturing wannabes that tell us how good they are, yet complain about not getting a fair shake. In my book, being "good" means you are generally successful regardless of the situation.

I've bantered back and forth more or less uselessly with Mahn-duh-BO-LEE all day, knowing I could never change his mind- basically because he won't decide what his point of view really is. Now we have people saying in effect they are samurais getting killed by peasants, and well, that's just not right.

As usual, Toad has it right. Go to the DA and get your kicks if you want to test your "skillz". Go to the CT if you want historic matchups.

And yes, I would buy a sim where I flew an F6F against only Zeros. Reminds me of an old ParSoft title, "Hellcat Ace".

[Fester']

the only plane I really hate is the LA-7, because it outperforms the planes I like to fly in practically every area

Hmmmm... is this plane blocked for you on your FE?  It's not on mine, I CHOOSE NOT to fly it, but it's there if I were to decide to.

Just because a (insert early war or relative pig in performance type plane here) gives you a hard on does not mean that the rest of the arena has to fly an equal or lesser plane to yours so that your fragile ego does not get bruised when they shoot you down.

Your making a choice to fly an inferior performing plane.  Dont piss & moan because someone handed you your bellybutton in a better performing ride.

If the ego can't take it, then stay out of the planes that take substantial skill to kill someone in.

[Urchin]

How about a sim where you only got to fly the Spit I against Me262's?  Would you buy that?  Actually, that isn't a good example, because the Spit I does do at least one thing better.  

How about one where you got to fly a 190A-5 against La-7s (and for variety, Yak-9Us).  That would be a fun game, well, for some people I guess.  

...honestly though, of course some planes make flying other planes more difficult to be successful. So? What makes me ill is the number of posturing wannabes that tell us how good they are, yet complain about not getting a fair shake. In my book, being "good" means you are generally successful regardless of the situation.

That is an interesting viewpoint, and generally one that I hold as well.  However, there are cases where it wouldn't matter HOW 'good' you are, you are going to die anyway.  For example.. I could kill Leviathn 100% of the time if he was in a 109E4 and I was in a SpitV (or Spit IX).  Why?  Because the Spit performs SO much better than the 109 that it really does make up for him having a lot more skill than me.  It doesn't matter WHAT he does, I can do it better in a Spitfire.  

Now we have people saying in effect they are samurais getting killed by peasants, and well, that's just not right.

I didn't read it that way.  I read it like he was drawing a parallel case for what it feels like to fly an inferior plane in the main arena.  Rather like Funked up isn't REALLY saying we are all duelists that meet at dawn every day with air pistols and get ventilated by some amazinhunk with a machine-gun -  he was drawing a parellel also.

[funkedup]

I should clarify my statement.  I care what they fly in that it dictates how and what I fly, if I want to be successful (i.e. get kills and live).  I don't make judgements about their character and skills based on their plane choices.  But I will taunt them if they fly like wussies.  And naturally I will go out of my way to kill planes with black crosses.  

[akak]

Originally posted by MANDOBLE
akak, I didnt miss the point.
It is what you fly and what you fight what should matter for you as a customer of a flight sim. Would you buy a combat flight sim where you fly F6F and all the enemies are A6M3? Why do you worry about fighting only A6M3 when you are able to fly your preferred ride (F6F as an example)? Of course, probably you are not going to buy that monotone sim.

Yep, I did and it was called Combat Flight Simulator 2, except you pretty much flew the Wildcat instead of the Hellcat.

 Like I've said, it doesn't bother me a lick that someone prefers to fly a plane they enjoy and have fun in.  I just can't see past your illogical stance, it just doesn't make any sense.  Big deal if you attack a base and 50% of the base defenders up in Spitfires while the other 50% ups in La7's or one of the other so-called "newbie/uber" planes.  If you're dumb enough to dive into that mess without backup, then you deserve what you get, it's got nothing to do what the other guy flies.  

In the all flying strato G10s and you flying La7 scenary, probably, the G10s would be fighting each other at hi alt and ignoring you all the time. The result: you'll get a bit bored.

I wouldn't be bored.  If I notice that they are fighting themselves and not paying me any attention, I'd extend and gain some altitude and proceed to cherry pick them out of the furball.  Make them pay for their lack of SA.

How many plane types cover more than 50% of MA plane usage? 2? 3? HTC is working on more and more planes, most if not all of them will be forgotten after first week and the people will return to their hispano/la7/n1k2 routine.

Again, what's the big deal if someone enjoys flying the more popular planes in the game?  It doesn't make the plane or the pilot any better.  

I'm glad HiTech and gang keep adding new planes to the game, I'm sure you didn't whine like you are now when they added some more of the Luftwhiner planes.

For example, I like to fly the 190 family, but in the case they become overused, I'll ask to perk them all for sure.

And I'm sure we'll roll our eyes and laugh at you again.



Ack-Ack
479th FG - Riddle's Raiders

[Urchin]

Originally posted by Fester
the only plane I really hate is the LA-7, because it outperforms the planes I like to fly in practically every area

Hmmmm... is this plane blocked for you on your FE?  It's not on mine, I CHOOSE NOT to fly it, but it's there if I were to decide to.

Just because a (insert early war or relative pig in performance type plane here) gives you a hard on does not mean that the rest of the arena has to fly an equal or lesser plane to yours so that your fragile ego does not get bruised when they shoot you down.

Your making a choice to fly an inferior performing plane.  Dont piss & moan because someone handed you your bellybutton in a better performing ride.

If the ego can't take it, then stay out of the planes that take substantial skill to kill someone in.

FesCAF... I hardly have a fragile ego.  I enjoy flying 'relatively' inferior planes, so I do.  Perhaps I was raised oddly, I don't know.  Part of the 'thrill' of a game for me is making it a challenge.  And frankly, 95% of the people in the arena aren't GOOD enough, in any plane, to give me a challenge when I'm in one of the 'Uber' rides.  So, I make a choice to even the playing field a little bit by flying planes with less performance.  

I guess I look at it something like this.  Suppose I'm an NBA player out looking for a pickup game.  I don't find the nearest 5 year old and bait them into a game (while screaming, 'Who's your daddy, mutha-diddlya?!' as I jump OVER the poor 3'6" kid to dunk).  I go find another NBA player and have a nice hard game.  If all I can find are 5 year olds, I'll do my best to even up the match (you play on your knees, etc. etc.- of course, perhaps only someone looking for a fair game would do that, not someone trying to stroke their ego by ' r0xx0r1ng' small children).

I also guess that most people would happily jump over a small child to make the point of how 'good' they are at basketball.  

The only real problem is that there are sometimes NBA players mixed in with the small children (really small NBA players, like Mugsy Bogues ).  When you get on your knees to even up the match and they kick you in your head on their way to the basket, it does tend to get a little upsetting.  I think that is what bothers a lot of people that are flying inferior planes, but I could be wrong.  

Do I have an ego?  Sure, most everyone does, and competition only brings it out in most of us.  I'm not posting here to say the La-7 needs to be perked, I'm posting here to try to explain why some people dislike seeing it.  In my opinion, the La-7 is a crutch for someone that isn't quite good enough to fly a P-51, TIffie, 109G-10, or 190D-9.  Does the La-7 give them a 'hard-on', as you so eloquently put it?  No, it does not.  If a plane comes along that they think gives them an even larger performance advantage, they'll switch to it.  They are in the La-7 because it gives them the edge they need to compete with the guys in the P-51s, Tiffies, G-10s, and D-9s.  In my opinion, the pilots on the La-7s have fragile egos, not the ones who fly 'inferior' planes.

[Fester']

When you get on your knees to even up the match and they kick you in your head on their way to the basket, it does tend to get a little upsetting.

If you know there are wolves in with sheep, dressed as sheep, you better bring the right tool for the job or be prepared to get bit every once in awile.

So you club a few baby seals, big deal.  If not losing is that important to you then fly something that protects your self image.

I dont mean to single you out Urchin, and this isnt a personal thing against you, but you are making an informed decision and then whining about the results, it's like learned helplessness.

Answer this, is it nicer to kill one la7 in a 109e? or kill 10 of anything in an LA7?

Neither answer is right, they just speak to different personalities.  It sounds like you are struggling with what is more important to you.

[Tac]

The way I see it, the La7 is dangerous only when it has an average or above average pilot. Its guns are so crappy and its so fast you have a 262-like dilemma... approach too fast, gun range too short.. you dont know what to do you'll just end up playing tourist or a very entertaining target. A clueless pilot in an La7 will only beat you to the ground. In the hands of the average/above average+ pilot the La7 becomes a real annoyance. It will run you down below 15k.. 190 and P51 pilots cant dive away from it, thus the understandable aggravation from the wurgerstang club.

SpitIX and N1k on the other hand are so docile and have such great performance that no effort other than point and shoot is needed. Both are armed with long range, good ammo load cannons.. turn like hell, can zoom and dive with all but the near-perk perfomance planes long enough to hit you with long range cannon spraying. Their only weakness is their very high speed handling (which can be overcome by flying them with trim tabs). They both B&Z and T&B above average and they are armed with above average weapons (average being 4X.50 cal in my opinion). And this added to their docility and its no surprise these planes draw so many pilots to use them. There's no effort to it and all the fun.... much like fighter ace and wing commander imo

And then you meet the horde of blue haired pilots with faded jedi glory in the MA.. and oooh boy, youd BETTER be in somethign that can run.. or in their same rides or your chances arent very good. No other 2 planes in the game can claim the same angst generator those 2 have

[Tumor]

Originally posted by DmdNexus
I really don't care who flys what. But here's an idea.

Rather than perking an over used plane type, I think it would be a neat feature to have each plane type associated with a factory. And if a country's "N1K1" factory is destoryed then no one in that country can take off in a "N1K1" for 1 hour.  AW had a simular feature to this for spits. (this would not affect planes that are already in the air or are hotpadded)

 

HiTech made it very clear that this was one of the things he detested in Air Warrior.  I think the chances of seeing something like this (MA anyway) are about the same as Elvis playing your birthday party.

[Tumor]

Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
DIVERSITY !!!!

Most in the MA r just like sheeps an go with the flock

That's all

bingo!

[Tumor]

Originally posted by Nifty
Will two perks on the Spit IX accomplish what you want to see in terms of less SPIT tags in the Arena?  

 

  Yes, actually it would.  The best spit drivers wouldn't have a problem.  The point and click geeks however might be forced to fly something else now and then after they've burnt their perkies.