Author Topic: Collision model SUX (Read 4725 times)

trolla · « **Reply #75 on:** June 14, 2003, 08:26:07 AM »

killshooter is ok, I cant remember last time i killed mysevle on that it is easy just dont shoot at friendly (this happens mostly when 10 guys follow 1 enemy and all want the kill lol)

collision can be frustrating but guess it is needed, that the one who see the other plane dies at impact. (dont seems to work all the time cause of lag i guess)

blinking field is a absolut must in the big maps, we already have enough milkrunners in the game

in the smaller maps it might could get tuned down a little.

think about it when there is 80 bishes and 60 nits and 28 rooks,or opposite for that sake.

the country with the dubble players will milkrun and the underdog contry have no chance at all, but maybe save 50 % of the caputres.

Kaz · « **Reply #76 on:** June 15, 2003, 08:47:56 AM »

Ok since most seem to want to keep killshooter and HTC probably won't change it anyway, just reduce the damage dealed, and the place that it's dealt.
That'd solve a lot of problems.
Dunno how to deal with the exploding bomb situation now THAT would suck, never happened to me though. I don't level bomb that much.
Maybe the same thing could apply here, can't get rid of it because it would be abused. So just reduce the damage dealt, maybe instead if ending up in the tower no questions asked, the killshooter might live but be crippled depending on the severity.

hazed- · « **Reply #77 on:** June 15, 2003, 09:38:33 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Steve
Hazed, I don't have a problem w/ the scenario you've mentioned. If someone behind me manages to damage the plane in front of me more than I do, they deserve the kill for being a better shot. I'm unmoved by killstealing. Heck, I don't even mind if people shoot at the falling carcasses I leave. with the way I hose them down, the ammo is probably just being wasted anyway.
As for dweebs following you around shooting at you.. how often would this happen? and why would it bother you?
How about this: If you shoot a friendly, your bullets are duds and your guns become inoperable for a period of time... 10 seconds? 60?

steve you obviously havent flown in a H2H room when the server/host has switched it off. Ok in MA it would be rare but there will always be someone who finds it amusing to continuously spray your plane while your flying.Theres always someone.
As for the guy behind you deserving the kill thats bs. If im using small calibre mgs i need to wait until im close. Someone in a 202 for instance has to hold on the target for a long time to get the damage needed to shoot it down. A dweeb 700 yards away with 4x20mm could spray at the 202 and the enemy without a care and would 9 times out of 10 get the kill. I absolutely wouldnt accept this.I want to see this guy pay for trying to steal a kill.

I fly with simple rules: If i see someone else chasing a con I dont JOIN IN the chase unless im called or the guy chasing seems to be losing ground rapidly.I dont shoot at others kills after they are physically unable to fly, ie burning or missing wings etc.
If im behind a pilot whos already on an enemies tail I DONT fire over his shoulder to steal the kill.If i do and i hit the friend then i deserve to go down burning.Just think about what you would say if it were real situation when you both finally landed for the day! the guy would knock you out for trying to kill him.You can however follow and wait for the enemy to throw off the chaser and hopefully fly into your line of sight. This is fair enough.
I Dont join in conga lines because its a waste of pilots when 5 chase one enemy and 10 more enemy are in bound!.

so this leaves the only situation i have a problem with and that is the morons who dive in between your target and you even sometimes AS your are firing. Unfortunately theres no code that removes idiotic players and i doubt it can ever be dealt with.
Keep killshooter as is please and ill try to avoid the idiots as much as possible

collisions Im not happy with but it seems they wont be changed so I gave up worrying about it.I still curse everytime it happens to me though.

SKurj · « **Reply #78 on:** June 15, 2003, 01:03:57 PM »

One thing about both planes taking damage in a collision (even the guy who didn't hit a thing) is the time delay...

The player who didn't see a collision on his fe will also have to wait momentarily for the collision message to go from his opponent, to the server and then sent to him, so he could theoretically take damage a second (or more) after the supposed collision took place.

The whines would be much louder with mutual destruction imo...

It is possible for both planes to take damage in a collision now, tho this doesn't happen too often due to high closing speeds in HO cases ...(most common collision occurences) At real slow speeds its very common for both to take damage.

SKurj

flakbait · « **Reply #79 on:** June 16, 2003, 02:28:20 PM »

How about gradual damage combined with a 2:1 ratio for ammo vs hits?

An example:
Hristo is driving a 109G10 with the spud gun and he's gonna frag Karnak. Only trouble is, Revvin drives right through Hristo to swipe the kill. Three of those 30mm taters smack Revvin. As a result, Hristo loses six rounds from every gun (three hits at a 2:1 ratio) and both his flaps go POP. He'd be damaged, and he'd have less ammo, but he's not defenseless or dead.

Plus you could have a "counter" of sorts that reset for each time the guy pulled the trigger. If you hit an enemy, there's no problem. If you hit a friendly, the penalty starts rising. On the first offense, Hristo loses his flaps. Second offense, he can't WEP for 10 minutes or loses some gas. Third offense, he gets an oil leak. Fourth offense he gets bounced back to the tower. Plus, if the offender was driving a perk plane, you could double or triple the perk plane cost while dropping the number of perks per kill by half. Eventually said Dweebling would be reduced down to goon or half-track duty. Slightly less strict than killshooter, but at the same time there's plenty of incentive for folks not to shoot their fellow bish/nit/rooks.

-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School
Put the P-61B in Aces High

Steve · « **Reply #80 on:** March 09, 2004, 08:41:44 PM »

Nothing.. NOTHING is more flawed in this game than the collision model. It rewards people for deliberately trying to ram. There are plenty of tards in the game who are completely content w/ killing one guy, regardless of whether they live or not. This is by far the worse aspect of the game.

Karnak · « **Reply #81 on:** March 09, 2004, 09:50:43 PM »

Steve,

Please tell me how to intentionally ram another fighter when we're both going 350mph and have 250ms difference in position?

How can that be done reliably?

Anybody who is wasting time trying to do that is going to be a free kill to anybody using guns which have to hit not on the shootee's FE, but on the shooter's FE.

In short:

To kill an opponent by collision you must miss him on your FE and hit him on his FE, a position you must guess.

To kill an opponent by shooting him you must hit him on your FE and what is on his FE is completely irrelevant. No guessing anything.

Which is easier and more practical?

NUKE · « **Reply #82 on:** March 09, 2004, 10:31:29 PM »

Here is my solution to killshooter:

If the killshooter lands any hits on a friendly, his icon becomes tagged with a skull and crossbones and any other friendly can then shoot the killshooter down and get credit for the kill

Steve · « **Reply #83 on:** March 09, 2004, 10:54:39 PM »

Quote

To kill an opponent by collision you must miss him on your FE and hit him on his FE, a position you must guess.

wrong you can hit a guy, see him on your FE and still destroy his plane.

Karnak · « **Reply #84 on:** March 09, 2004, 11:48:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Steve
wrong you can hit a guy, see him on your FE and still destroy his plane.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

If you are saying that he hit you on his FE and killed you when you did not collide with him on your FE then you have a bug.

If you can get a film of that send it to HTC as that is not how it is supposed to work.

Zazen13 · « **Reply #85 on:** March 09, 2004, 11:49:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Steve
Nothing.. NOTHING is more flawed in this game than the collision model. It rewards people for deliberately trying to ram. There are plenty of tards in the game who are completely content w/ killing one guy, regardless of whether they live or not. This is by far the worse aspect of the game.

I had my worst collision experience last week. I was saddling up on pellik in a 38, he saw me late and deliberately thru it into a spin. I had already begun firing (d400-), his spin thru him violently in random directions, there was nothing I could do, I rammed him from behind somehow, he flew away unscathed. There's something wrong with that picture....I die more from collisions of a questionable nature than fire by a factor of 10.

Zazen

FT_Animal · « **Reply #86 on:** March 10, 2004, 12:41:13 AM »

Let me just say this, about that,................
............................. ............................. ............................. ...................um,....................,...............

Ok lets try this,..........................

If your life depended on it, would you let yourself come between a gun and a target when the gun is firing>???................. If this answer takes more then .001 of a second to answer you lose.

If I had some DATA, which I don't, I think it would show that more often the guy who flys between a firing gun and a target should be dead if hit. The shooter is flying his plane, the invincible moron who put himself in the bullets path should die, period. There are now "Buts" to that.

Now, I'm into VB6 so I'm not sure what HT could do with C++ but I would think, that some coding might be able to be put in place to detect a clear shot, from an interrupted shot.

The half-baked idea would be something like.

In Collision:
If the FE reports a front view (on a HO course) of an enemy plane prior to collision (HO) then both should be dead. It takes two for a HO no matter how you look at it.

If the FE reports that the line of sight into the HO was broken off by plane “A” *first * and a collision still occurs, then it would see plane “B” as a rammer and he dies, 10 minute penalty to re-up. Plane “A” would still retain damage, but not mortal.

If plane “A” hits plane “1” in the side or rear the FE should see “A” as a ram and the rammer should die and wait 10 minutes to re-plane. “1” should receive damage but not mortal.

This same type of setup could be used for killshooter:
If Plane “A” (friendly) has a front view of plane “1” (enemy) plane “As” FE would report it as target. As long as “A” has the target *first * plane “B” (friendly) who puts himself in “A” bullet path dies. This may have to be done with a clock element.

If “A” fires a weapon with NO target reported and hits “B” then “A” becomes PNG (no ammo) for 30min-1 hour.

Again, a half-baked idea that could be tweaked into working,……. Maybe

Steve · « **Reply #87 on:** March 10, 2004, 12:50:20 AM »

That's not what I'm saying karnak.

beet1e · « **Reply #88 on:** March 10, 2004, 04:51:59 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Steve
Nothing.. NOTHING is more flawed in this game than the collision model. It rewards people for deliberately trying to ram. There are plenty of tards in the game who are completely content w/ killing one guy, regardless of whether they live or not. This is by far the worse aspect of the game.

Here's one for you. I've posted this short (17 secs) film before. It bears out what you say to the absolute letter. View in external mode.

C47 dweeb

Rino · « **Reply #89 on:** March 10, 2004, 08:05:55 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
The best way to avoid killshooter is to be sure of your shot. It's like HO's, it takes two.

Ack-Ack

Have to disagree here, if a friendly comes up under your nose
as you fire, the damage you receive happens so fast it definitely
does NOT take two.

Anyone claiming your SA should include aircraft coming from
your blind side is optomistic at best, after all friendlies are not
supposed to be considered threats, right?