in
"The game is about aerial combat and that takes precedence to everything else." - Pyro
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,9645.0.html
Ya know, we'd been having a good fight for the better part of an hour with a bish CV off of a rook base. Just the kind of great fighter fest that really grabs you and immerses you in the game. My squaddies and I were all having an absolute blast as were many of the rook pilots. Then, the inevitable happens when some dilrod had to come with dive bombing B-17's and sink the cv. WTF for? We were all having a good time and not trying to take your gdamn base! We just wanted a good furball.
********, did it make you feel cool that you ruined a fight that 30 plus people were enjoying? I bet you were the kid that was never picked for a team at recess and crap like that is your only way of getting attention. Let me guess, you used to snatch the baseball and run off with it too, right?
Crap like this is why the ack on cv's and bases needs to be super hardcore. That way one imbecile can not ruin the fun for 30 plus people.
:mad:
Much as I understand the anger and annoyance when something enjoyable in the game gets disrupted for what seems like no good reason, I think this kind of complaint is actually rather self-centered, arrogant and small-minded, if you really think about it.
Why? Because it purports to trash someone else's gameplay and accuse them of spoiling your fun, as if you (and any so engaged with you) are the only ones who's fun matters. You are, in a sense, stating your way of playing is the only way of playing and shame on someone for ruining your fun by not valuing the same type of gameplay. Boo hoo.
Assuming you don't know that the person involved was 'specifically' out to annoy you personally or anyone else, then you should be bright enough to realize that this game as gone way past just Furball Fun House. There are just as many who enjoy strategic gameplay as much as you enjoy individual fighter combat. In fact, I'm sure their are several variations on each and every theme of gameplay possible: fighter furballer, team toolshedder, high-alt buff driver, GV/tanker putz, ego-stroking scorepotato or whatever other type of play and interest this game has to offer. Nobody has it "right" or has an exclusive lock on "how the game should be played".
In spite of any contention that this is a 'fighter simulation game first', nobody signed any contract to only play by furballer's rules and HiTech certainly isn't passing any worthwhile judgement by 'kicking the toolshedders out'. With 300-400 playing in the same playpen, you had better dam well expect to have your private little war interupted eventually, if not regularly. Nobody is really playing the game on the same page at any point in time, and complaining about is equivalent to throwing a baby tantrum. And just as mature and productive. It's getting really, really old.
Yes, it's unfortunate that a group of player's special fun got distrupted, especially as such enjoyable moments seem fewer and further between of late. However, that doesn't mean anyone wants to hear such self-serving, self-centered, poorly considered whining and bashing.
We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming still in progress - Romper Room.
Ya know, we'd been having a good fight for the better part of an hour with a bish CV off of a rook base. Just the kind of great fighter fest that really grabs you and immerses you in the game. My squaddies and I were all having an absolute blast as were many of the rook pilots. Then, the inevitable happens when some dilrod had to come with dive bombing B-17's and sink the cv. WTF for? We were all having a good time and not trying to take your gdamn base! We just wanted a good furball.
********, did it make you feel cool that you ruined a fight that 30 plus people were enjoying? I bet you were the kid that was never picked for a team at recess and crap like that is your only way of getting attention. Let me guess, you used to snatch the baseball and run off with it too, right?
Crap like this is why the ack on cv's and bases needs to be super hardcore. That way one imbecile can not ruin the fun for 30 plus people.
:mad:
Two Things:
1) You can protect a carrier by establishing a bomber cap.
2) Every pilot is not interested in a great furball, some do enjoy the combat involved in attack sorties.
If LVT's are in the water (for that matter, m3's and c47's otw), the nme CV is fair game.yep
If the town is flat, the nme CV is fair game.
But I feel your pain Bodhi.heyneat! what do all these buttons up
here
do?methinks[/glow]thisonewillsoongetdisabled
"The game is about aerial combat and that takes precedence to everything else." - Pyro
All I see leaving are the good fighter sticks, arena seems full of people who only care about score. I find it pathetic that people are worried about seeing their names in lights in the DA now.
I'm with Sloehand all the way on this one.
Fights and furballs constantly shift for a variety of reasons. This guy didn't kill your fleet just so he could tick you off. Its this attitude that has virtually eliminated bombers from the game. You wonder why all the newbs lancstuka, its because you drove all the GOOD bomber pilots away.
"The game is about aerial combat and that takes precedence to everything else." - Pyro
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,9645.0.html
ummm.....Battle of Midway anybody???
"The game is about aerial combat and that takes precedence to everything else." - Pyro
Ya know, we'd been having a good fight for the better part of an hour with a bish CV off of a rook base. Just the kind of great fighter fest that really grabs you and immerses you in the game. My squaddies and I were all having an absolute blast as were many of the rook pilots. Then, the inevitable happens when some dilrod had to come with dive bombing B-17's and sink the cv. WTF for? We were all having a good time and not trying to take your gdamn base! We just wanted a good furball.This is one I agree with bhodi on, so many lil cowards that get their itsy bitsy tiny lil wocks off ruining 4 furballers fun!
********, did it make you feel cool that you ruined a fight that 30 plus people were enjoying? I bet you were the kid that was never picked for a team at recess and crap like that is your only way of getting attention. Let me guess, you used to snatch the baseball and run off with it too, right?
Crap like this is why the ack on cv's and bases needs to be super hardcore. That way one imbecile can not ruin the fun for 30 plus people.
:mad:
So, are we implying that a bombing mission or attacking a CV is not combat?
The tired old bomb 'n' bail routine is not aerial combat. As has been stated, defending a CV is one thing, but flying high alt patrols over it, or sitting in the guns for an hour or two is not fun. Had fortress been fighting, had their been a vulch or a bunch of lvts in the water, I might be able to understand this, but none of that was the case. He just showed up, dove his formation of 17s into it, and disappeared. That's just being a PITA.
It's nothing to do with strategic gameplay, or trying to win the war, or anything but simply preventing people from doing what they enjoy. How would those of you who don't enjoy aerial combat feel if a group of us did nothing but make it impossible for you to do what you enjoy? If all we did was pork ord and barracks, drop your BH, etc? My guess is after the initial thrill of having made us play the game the way you want us to, you would eventually get annoyed. If you knew we were doing it solely to prevent you from doing what you enjoy (and make no mistake, that is his only motivation), I seriously doubt you'd be so pleased as you are when we are the targets of such tactics.
Personally I'd love to see a central "big island" type concept with unporkable/uncapturable bases for the "furballers" and the rest of the map for those who want to "fight the war"...
Honestly, knowing the skill level disparity between the two groups we'd probably be pretty dang good at shutting their dweebery down.
"The game is about aerial combat and that takes precedence to everything else." - Pyro
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,9645.0.html
BRING BACK THE FT WITH THE INDESTRUCTABLE FH's, NO TROOPS, AND A 30K HILL AROUND IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
in all seriousness I would love to see that map return. If only to start hearing all the toolshedders whine about how everyone is wasting their time furballing over FT again. That one always gets a good laugh outta me.
In all seriousness, I would hate to see that map return. If only to start hearing all the furballers whine about how everyone is wasting their time taking bases again. That one always gets a good laugh outta me.
Greetings from Bizzaro world,
Renob
OOOOOOPS
Humble on the idea that buff guns are lazers.. They are just 50 cals and I can acuratly hit at 1K out in any 50 cal armed plane just a lil harder in a fighter because bombers are very stable where as a fighter will duck and weave a bit if your hand isn't steady.. 50 cal is 50 cal...
On the dumbed down bomb sight I agree and was one of the first to complain on the forum when they changed it.. But again I guess this falls under the HTC bottom line subject. gotta make it real easy for everyone to attract more $ :(
Humble on the idea that buff guns are lazers.. They are just 50 cals and I can acuratly hit at 1K out in any 50 cal armed plane just a lil harder in a fighter because bombers are very stable where as a fighter will duck and weave a bit if your hand isn't steady.. 50 cal is 50 cal...I think what many of us detest about bomber guns, is the fact that all 36 are sync'd to shoot at one target. It is cheasy, dweeeby, and gamey. Besides GV's, the dive bombing/bomb bail/lazersync guns are the most gamed aspect of AH2!
Decrease vmax of bombers (excluding JU-88).
Artificial speed cap is rather gamey. Besides that, buffs in LW MA are very vulnerable targets already and easy to shoot down. Most people complaining about them are usually just too lazy or not interested at all to hunt them down. Many buffs actually never get to their targets.
Have a maximum speed for bomb drop (like 220 indicated, maybe).
If there is a real world technical justification for that, I wouldn't object (Any max speed limits for bomb bay doors?)
Add a perk penalty (on the fighter side to make it "stick") for a bomb n' bail (i.e. if plane has no damage, charge 50 perks for bail).
Simple fix for bomb'n'bailer: He will just crash
Add a maximum bailout speed to prevent purposeful diving to rip wings off and thus bail w/o penalty
It will take him only a few seconds more to wait for plane impact. No need to bail at all.
why not just get rid of bombers? :confused:
Oh probably cause many would quit. A lot of us, especially the older generation, love the game because its a realistic combat flight sim of an actual war. One that we've been studying our entire lives. One that shaped human destiny more then any other. And in this war bombers made a bigger impact then any other airplane.
why not just get rid of bombers? :confused:
While I agree that dive bombing heavies are an abomination, I disagree with the idea of not bombing a cv or field if a large furball is present.I think a common sense question to yourself would suffice, "I see 50 planes down there fighting for more than an hour in between a base and a cv, "should I bomb one of them's hangar/cv so as to wipe both darbars from the area?" If your answer is yes, then you are a coward little griefer type who should be in the TA learning to join in the dogfighting fun! :aok
If I up a set of buffs and fly 2-3 (or more) sectors to bomb what initially seemed like an attempted base take, why should I have to agonize over whether or not someone down there might be "having fun"?
Should I :
A. Take a poll on the "fun" factor of the furball and let the majority decide if I should drop my bombs or not?
B. Ask politely on 200 if anyone would mind if I sunk the CV?
C. Sink the CV? ( after all it's destructable for a reason)
D. Upon spotting the furball, just RTB so I don,t take the chance of ruining even one persons idea of fun.
Undecidedly Yours,
Boner
CVs are legitimate targets. If they weren't legitimate targets, and couldnt be sunk, all it would do is change locations of furballs. Be that as it may Im against heavy bombers being able to stuka, would like to see CVs more survivable, and dont much go after them myself. I used to slaughter them wholesale in B-26s but havnt done so in a few months. At most I'll get shot up trying to dive bomb them.Rich, don't take it out of context, there was no vulching, no fear of a base capture, just 50 or so guys furballing in between a cv and a base. The tard who dropped the cv, is the type who goes looking for the biggest dar bar on the map so he can feel important when he makes a difference, no matter the cost of the 50 others fun! Of course, the furball instantly ends, and then everyone starts looking for another good fight, but some just log, and then others get dispersed and ends up no other large furballs appear sometimes for days on end.
Ive always gotten a kick out of hearing on these boards how its lame to attack CVs. And yet Ive seen a hundred times dozens of sticks taking off from them and not one sticking around to protect them from IB bombers. Its most hilarious when you have cap with dozens of airplanes clubbing baby seals, not one of them flying high and tight over the CV to protect it. :lol Or, not one showing initiative and taking out ords at nearby bases.
I think a common sense question to yourself would suffice, "I see 50 planes down there fighting for more than an hour in between a base and a cv, "should I bomb one of them's hangar/cv so as to wipe both darbars from the area?" If your answer is yes, then you are a coward little griefer type who should be in the TA learning to join in the dogfighting fun! :aok
Much as I understand the anger and annoyance when something enjoyable in the game gets disrupted for what seems like no good reason, I think this kind of complaint is actually rather self-centered, arrogant and small-minded, if you really think about it.
Why? Because it purports to trash someone else's gameplay and accuse them of spoiling your fun, as if you (and any so engaged with you) are the only ones who's fun matters. You are, in a sense, stating your way of playing is the only way of playing and shame on someone for ruining your fun by not valuing the same type of gameplay. Boo hoo.
BRING BACK THE FT WITH THE INDESTRUCTABLE FH's, NO TROOPS, AND A 30K HILL AROUND IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
in all seriousness I would love to see that map return. If only to start hearing all the toolshedders whine about how everyone is wasting their time furballing over FT again. That one always gets a good laugh outta me.
In all seriousness, I would hate to see that map return. If only to start hearing all the furballers whine about how everyone is wasting their time taking bases again. That one always gets a good laugh outta me.
Greetings from Bizzaro world,
Renob
OOOOOOPS
Ah see, here's the thing: furballers don't whine that others aren't furballing, so your clever edit is wasted on me! muhahahhahahaha
why not just get rid of bombers? :confused:
Judging by the posts thus far, it is obvious that a fair number of people "really just don't get it".
Call it a whine, call it what you want, but Hub hit it spot on. This one guy gets his flippin rocks off ruining other peoples fun. He does it by flying along in the most "gamey", "unrealistic" portion of the game... dive bombing in level bombers. As Hub said, sure, someone could have sat in the 5 inch gun on the cv or ran race tracks around it, but that is a rather bit boring.
IMHO, 30 people that are having a good time that is ruined by one individual that is playing along in a way that is one of the most despised aspects of the game is not a good thing. Call me "self centered" and "small minded" for wanting the good of the majority in this case over the will of individual seems to be quite a travesty involving word comphresion.
It is this attitude that has so prevailed in the MA's that seems to have ruined all aspects of game play. Nothing better than the timid little runtangs and other tards that game the scroing system as well. The game play was nothing like this seven years ago. Sure, things change, but again; IMHO, the game play has definitely changed for the worse, and we have lost a lot of really good players along the way that were not idiots running around dive bombing stuff in level bombers. It's really sad.
Thats what it was Bodhi, that guy took off in his B-17s with two goals in mind. To sink the CV and to piss you off. Scratch that. His ONLY goal was to piss you off.
You guys don't get it. There is a reason there are bombers, bombs, rockets, tanks, M3s and LVTs in the MA. If it were all about the furballers their would just have fighters and nothing else. If all you want to do is furball then take yourselves to the DA. There is a designated mindless furballing section just for you types. There you can spin round and round like a dog chasing his tail for hours and nobody is going to "kill" your fun.
However, I find it odd even though there is an arena just for you, you types won't go. I think that has to do with things like "vulch lights", "easy kills", "goon killing", score and having a good amount of CV ack to go run and hide in when someone comes in higher than the rest of the furballers.
Here is a clue. It is not YOUR fun, it is not YOUR furball and it is not YOUR arena. It belongs to everyone. That sandbox is pretty big, learn to live with someone coming along and kicking over your sand castle every now and then or move along to a smaller, safer sandbox, tailored for special needs types like the furballers.
This is the kinda crap that takes me off the edge. There was another fight in the Orange last night against the Bish and the rooks. we had a nice fight going and we soon had gained the advantage. we took out the town, got some vulches and we had planned to take the base. we had the goon pilot less then 30 seconds away, when a lonly LGay came out of nowere and took out the Goon. The arguing ensued between the Muppets, that were there, and the other bish members.
The argument contined on about not enough people flying over the town when there was about 3 or 4 guys waiting there. calling people whiners and wussies stuid stuff, when it was no ones fault.
I don't know how the rooks handle thier way of taking bases, but I did not, and im sure that there were others, that did not appreciate all of the name calling and stupid crap like that.
Rich, don't take it out of context, there was no vulching, no fear of a base capture, just 50 or so guys furballing in between a cv and a base. The tard who dropped the cv, is the type who goes looking for the biggest dar bar on the map so he can feel important when he makes a difference, no matter the cost of the 50 others fun! Of course, the furball instantly ends, and then everyone starts looking for another good fight, but some just log, and then others get dispersed and ends up no other large furballs appear sometimes for days on end.
I'm with Sloehand all the way on this one.Actualy, there are lots of those guys. I'm all for killing a furball if it's about to turn into a vulchfest where there's no actual COMBAT, but a lot of these guys WILL in fact kill a furball just for the sake of it. Slowhand's "first class" post conveniently ignores that.
Fights and furballs constantly shift for a variety of reasons. This guy didn't kill your fleet just so he could tick you off.
Personally, I think everyone should be able to play the game as they see fit. On the other hand sometimes a little respect to the community can go a long way. If the fight is over the water, plenty of planes are up from both sides, one might just assume that many are having a great time that might last an hour or so. Now weigh that against your 30 seconds of glory, knowing that you may have prevented a cartoon airfield from being taken and the fun of 50 real live people. In this act, though you might prevent a field from being taken, you prove nothing except you can prevent people from taking a plane up. You haven't "won" because you flew better, smarter, or even used some form of strategy. Upping a bomber, and flying it straight into a cv, then pressing a button, doesn't exactly take years of training or experience.Pretty much it, right there.. A great stable furball where 30+ players have a blast for hours, no capturing or porking anything, just fighting.. And some of you guys think there's a good reason to kill it except to stop their fun? WTF are you smoking?
So not one member of the country that owned the CV was trying to capture the field eh?
:lol :lol :lol :lol
I was accused of ruining one of those "furballs" once
my response was somthin like "So all them LVT's are just trolling for Salmon" ?
There is always another fight, or get in a Chog and protect the carrier
Let us break this down. Why do furballs happen? Well generally someone is trying to capture a base and someone is trying to defend it. I've never ever heard someone say lets take the cv over to 20 and furball!.. You haven't been around very long, or haven't been paying much attention to vox/text.. Not only do CVs get used as mobile furball generators, lots of bases are captured or attempted to just to get players to up and start a fight.. With no real intent to "capture" anything.
I think a common sense question to yourself would suffice, "I see 50 planes down there fighting for more than an hour in between a base and a cv, "should I bomb one of them's hangar/cv so as to wipe both darbars from the area?" If your answer is yes, then you are a coward little griefer type who should be in the TA learning to join in the dogfighting fun! :aok
The DA means just that...Dueling
"The game is about aerial combat and that takes precedence to everything else." - Pyro
Which means absolutely nothing. Actions speak louder than words, especially from HiTech et al. They put strategic game play and base capturing into AH and they apparently don't kick anyone out for participating in it.
Aerial combat and flight simulation may have been the motivator and primary theme of the game, but it's much more than that now. As we've been told over and over again, AH has and is evolving, changing into something different and more than what it was in the beginning. It's roots may always be in the air, but that's no reason to whine like a herd of two-year-olds cause someone pooped in your diaper.
Ya know, we'd been having a good fight for the better part of an hour with a bish CV off of a rook base. Just the kind of great fighter fest that really grabs you and immerses you in the game. My squaddies and I were all having an absolute blast as were many of the rook pilots. Then, the inevitable happens when some dilrod had to come with dive bombing B-17's and sink the cv. WTF for? We were all having a good time and not trying to take your gdamn base! We just wanted a good furball.
********, did it make you feel cool that you ruined a fight that 30 plus people were enjoying? I bet you were the kid that was never picked for a team at recess and crap like that is your only way of getting attention. Let me guess, you used to snatch the baseball and run off with it too, right?
Crap like this is why the ack on cv's and bases needs to be super hardcore. That way one imbecile can not ruin the fun for 30 plus people.
:mad:
So one Toolsheader has more rights to enjoy AH then 20 or 30 Furballers?
Especially if instead of shooting the bomber down (Heaven forbid, what were they in a fighter for in the first place? Barnstorming?)Dogfighting.. Furballing.
they sit with their thumb up their ass, and let the bomber kill the CV/FH's, and then come on here and whine about their own ineptitude.You really believe it's hard to shoot down bombers? Harder than winning a dogfight? It's not only easy but boring 9 times out of 10.
Actualy, there are lots of those guys. I'm all for killing a furball if it's about to turn into a vulchfest where there's no actual COMBAT, but a lot of these guys WILL in fact kill a furball just for the sake of it. Slowhand's "first class" post conveniently ignores that.
Dogfighting.. Furballing.
Shooting down planes, right? Bombers' are planes, too. If it's red and flying, its' a threat; SHOOT IT DOWN!!!
You really believe it's hard to shoot down bombers? Harder than winning a dogfight? It's not only easy but boring 9 times out of 10.
So are some fighter sticks' in this game. And there's bomber sticks' in here that will eat your lunch. Tatertot and 999000 come immediately to mind.
Why does a toolsheder have to bomb a CV with a good furball depending on it? Does it differ somehow from any other CV? The only difference is that other players are having fun using it.. It's as lame as taking command from someone using a CV (for, you guessed it, combat) just for the sake of it, and then doing nothing with it.
If a CV was simply a floating airfield, launching nothing but strictly fighters, I would actually tend to agree with you on this. However, CV groups' contain everything you need to be a genuine threat to a field, i.e. Heavy artillery, ordnance, troops, and ways' to get them there. CV's are, and always have been, high-priority targets, both in RL, and in the game. If airfields' are defended against attack, why shouldn't the CV?
What does the toolsheder give to the furballers in exchange for his bombing their CV? Nothing.
I beg to differ. The Toolshedder gives incentive to defend the CV. An LA-7 off of the airfield is not a threat to the CV; a formation of buffs' is. Think of it this way:Why go play blackjack in Las Vegas, if there's not any money on the table? Taking the CV in close to a field is akin to placing your bet on the table. Now you're playing for something more tangible.
Shooting down planes, right? Bombers' are planes, too. If it's red and flying, its' a threat; SHOOT IT DOWN!!!Zzz A plane that sits still and is as big as a barn... Yeah right, there's better things to use ammo on. Especialy if they're exploiting the external view to aim.
So are some fighter sticks' in this game. And there's bomber sticks' in here that will eat your lunch. Tatertot and 999000 come immediately to mind.I've killed em both pretty much everytime I ran into them.. Lost a rad at worst. And rumour is they're the first ones to use the exploit. I wouldn't be surprised. Either way they're boring.
If a CV was simply a floating airfield, launching nothing but strictly fighters, I would actually tend to agree with you on this. However, CV groups' contain everything you need to be a genuine threat to a field, i.e. Heavy artillery, ordnance, troops, and ways' to get them there. CV's are, and always have been, high-priority targets, both in RL, and in the game. If airfields' are defended against attack, why shouldn't the CV?I never said the opposite.. If the CV has won the fight, and the fight spills over the field so that it's not an even fight anymore, then yes, sink it.. There's no more dogfighting to expect from it. That's common sense.
I beg to differ. The Toolshedder gives incentive to defend the CV.
An LA-7 off of the airfield is not a threat to the CV; a formation of buffs' is.
Think of it this way:Why go play blackjack in Las Vegas, if there's not any money on the table? Taking the CV in close to a field is akin to placing your bet on the table. Now you're playing for something more tangible.Huh? CV off a base = furball. That's all there is to it. Since there's no attrition from using up planes from a field, there's effectively an infinite amout of cash on that blackjack table.
By that rationale then, the damn CV shoulda stayed afloat, as a matter of fact, CV sinkings' should be rare. But 90% of the time, even if the CV captures' the field, it gets' sunk in the process. Which means' the bombers' made it from the radar circle to the CV entirely without getting intercepted. The Buffs' get through. Probably because they aren't the easy targets' you say they are, Moot.No, the rationale is that both climbing up to bombers and shooting at them is boring. There's just no interest in leaving a good furball to fly at some ackstar. The bombers do make it thru the radar circle because they're flying 10 thousand feet above the furball... There's only one plane that can react to that small a window and it's the 163.
As I stated previously, a CV can spawn infinite amounts' of aircraft. Enough of them become a horde.Kill a CV and the fight will come from elsewhere.. If there's no nearby fields, it's game over for the CV attackers. And I disagree bombers have no way to predict if a furball is getting out of hand. It's common to have someone on country channel say that a CV needs sinking.. Soon enough the bombers show up and drop it.
CVs are the same as airfields.. I don't see how the CV is anymore of a potential horde than the FHs.. What's your point?
If the bomber pilot waits' too long, his window of oppurtunity dissappears, because by the time he get's over the CV, it's too late to do anything to save a field. So the Buff driver is obliged to up and attack the CV at his earliest oppurtunity. He does this purely because of the potential of what the CV can become. He has to.
Because if you let a CV get sunk, That's how long it's gonna take to fly a sector from another base, to get back to the original fight. There's your point for "incentive." You're literally fighting for your fun...But fightings' the name of the game after all, isn't it?And the point that's repeatedly gone over your head apparently, is that there's no reason for those bombers to extinguish others' fun when those others aren't requiring those bombers' doing so.. A balanced furball will go on until people have had enough and log off. There's no need for those bombers to bomb anything. Players like FORTRESS aside.. "It made me feel good". His feeling good was more important than 30 people having a blast dogfighting. If that isn't griefing, I dunno what is.
You're on the tail of an enemy LaLa. You're shooting this guy down. At this moment, you have your fun in hand. But the formation of Buffs' that have just gotten through the dar ring, are looking to hit your CV. Now you can keep killing the LA as he ups. But you won't have nothing to RTB to, because you neglected your CV. If you had climbed out, and intercepted the Buffs', your fun continues. The LA will still be there when you get back, btw.You don't get it.. I can kill buffs anytime.. I do kill buffs anytime..And it's boring. It's even more boring in the case of CV defense because you have to troll around waiting for buffs to show up, since once they're in the dar circle they're too close to be intercepted before their drop unless you've got enough altitude. How in the heck do you not get this? It's boring to fly cap over a freakin CV, doing nothing. Even shooting those bombers is boring, especialy if you can see an actual dogfight going on below while you sit like a duck waiting for some eventual toolsheder.
The CV isn't infinite, once it get's sunk. The CV is your wager; The planes' are simply cards.And those are who's rules? Yours? Who made you the boss here? I don't kill BHs nor ordnance unless bombers are screwing up a good fight.. I'm not talking about steam rolling of any kind.
It's really not about who has the right to do what...it's more about the context. I certainly, nor would some others, suggest that bombs should not be falling. I wouldn't say toolshedders should stop their endless campaign to wipe out every toolshed.
there are some dedicated bomber pilots and strat guys who will not take out cv's just because they can. If they see people enjoying a fight, they will wait, at least until it appears the fight is rapidly declining....5 minutes later, the cv goes down, and no harm no foul.
to say "just defend it" is a remark made without even taking the time to think about the issue. a) we are defending it b) most furballers aren't going to climb to 10k and circle a cv waiting for buffs....If we did that, then we wouldn't be furballing, so what would be the point? I don't think anyone could argue about the ease at which a cv can be brought down, despite defenses either way. Also, and again, the comment about their being a furball island in the DA is lacking, as anyone who has flown there, looking for a furball, would surely understand.
At this point what else is their to say, you either get or you don't. It's not my issue if people can not understand why others would be unhappy with the specific issue (not the general) one at hand. Though it does not surprise me, as there are plenty of people out there who seeming love to eat lots of beans, get on a subway, and let em rip...then wonder why all the disgusted faces. "just hold your breath" would seemingly be the answer.
Sloe, I know who it was, and I know why they did it. They do it to piss people off. I even got a PM about it after because they thought it was so funny...
I am not against buffs, sinking cv's, or the strat war at all. I just hate dive bombing jackoffs in buffs sinking cv's in the most unrealistic manner possible. Face it, it is really hard to defend against a group of B-17's diving on a cv from 10k.
Either way, it does not matter. Some people agree, others do not, some don't care. The fact that a few came in and dropped some cheap shots at me really doesn't matter either. It shows me that they are not looking at the whole issue, and instead choose to be griefers as opposed to helping find a solution.
Within the DA map is an area entitled "Furballing."
I personally dont see how someone can see and awsome cv battle going hear the excitment, and yet think o wait lets bomb this cv cause of course 1 person's fun is more important than that of 20 or 40. IMHO its just lame.Bomber Rank. Therein lies your answer.
my .02
Kaybay.. did you overdose on sugar or something?
.. You haven't been around very long, or haven't been paying much attention to vox/text.. Not only do CVs get used as mobile furball generators, lots of bases are captured or attempted to just to get players to up and start a fight.. With no real intent to "capture" anything.
It could possibly be all about "perspective".
an easy fix.......... raise the monthly gameplay fee to $30.00 like it was in the beginning
another fix....... maybe have a PREMIUM Arena, where people can subscribe and possibly pay an additional $5.00 fee to root out all the undesirables
or another fix......have an arena where several pillars of the community ( long time Vet players - like Nobaddy, NoPoop, etc...) vote & invite only worthy players to this arena,
or another possible fix ...... make an even more demanding, more realistic arena , and leave all the gamey types in the existing arenas....
one thing is certian here, The Players ( Community ) does not set the tone , does not police itself, does not cast enough stones on deserving individuals these days, and everything is to stinking PC........
Sloe, I know who it was, and I know why they did it. They do it to piss people off. I even got a PM about it after because they thought it was so funny...
I am not against buffs, sinking cv's, or the strat war at all. I just hate dive bombing jackoffs in buffs sinking cv's in the most unrealistic manner possible. Face it, it is really hard to defend against a group of B-17's diving on a cv from 10k.
Either way, it does not matter. Some people agree, others do not, some don't care. The fact that a few came in and dropped some cheap shots at me really doesn't matter either. It shows me that they are not looking at the whole issue, and instead choose to be griefers as opposed to helping find a solution.
Well my perspective was after his PM to me after he did it. Wasn't the type of PM I would send to someone and definitely not a PM from someone that was there for the fun of game...
Either way, it is the individual and a few others that get their rocks off doing it. Not the whole of buff pilots.
Within the DA map is an area for bombing too. Why is it empty?
Bodhi, I was curious, did you say anything on ch.200 about this, before the guy PM'd you?
an easy fix.......... raise the monthly gameplay fee to $30.00 like it was in the beginning
There ya go, put the price out of reach for a lot of guys so a few whiners that can afford the extra money won't have a sad video game experience..... :cry
It always has been "only about getting points". That is what this thread is about. Noone wants to say it, so I will.
Been around a very long time Moot and have flown as knits, bish, and rooks. Still haven't heard anyone say that. Maybe a new development. What I hear mostly is don't up cv, we're trying to sneak the base :lolHow long is that? You just missed it.. There's plenty of info going around on CVs, their location & heading, their damage status, if they need sinking, whatever.
Ya know, we'd been having a good fight for the better part of an hour with a bish CV off of a rook base. Just the kind of great fighter fest that really grabs you and immerses you in the game. My squaddies and I were all having an absolute blast as were many of the rook pilots. Then, the inevitable happens when some dilrod had to come with dive bombing B-17's and sink the cv. WTF for? We were all having a good time and not trying to take your gdamn base! We just wanted a good furball.
********, did it make you feel cool that you ruined a fight that 30 plus people were enjoying? I bet you were the kid that was never picked for a team at recess and crap like that is your only way of getting attention. Let me guess, you used to snatch the baseball and run off with it too, right?
Crap like this is why the ack on cv's and bases needs to be super hardcore. That way one imbecile can not ruin the fun for 30 plus people.
:mad:
Having large strat targets for bombers that affect the ability to capture territory would go a long way to reducing the impact capture and non-capture guys have on each other. Bomber guys want to blow stuff up. Give them stuff to blow up (along with an incentive to do it) other than CVs.
Having large strat targets for bombers that affect the ability to capture territory would go a long way to reducing the impact capture and non-capture guys have on each other. Bomber guys want to blow stuff up. Give them stuff to blow up (along with an incentive to do it) other than CVs.
It always has been "only about getting points". That is what this thread is about. Noone wants to say it, so I will.
Just kill score all together.Then some will have no feeling of "self-worth".
I think the biggest problem between the "furballers" and the "win the war" types is a lack of understanding what a "furball" is. A real furball isn't just the clash of defenders and attackers between bases. They sometimes spring from that, but not often. Attackers are "win the war" types on the move, and defenders are "win the war" types trying to slow the enemy from taking their "land", neither are furballers.
Furballs, real ones anyway, are as rare as a tornado, and as unpredictable. You never know where or when they will pop up. When a real furball come into being it is a mass of folks who are fighting for the pure fun of the fight.... to see how many you can get before you get "got", or to get out with your one or two kills and your 15 assists and limp home with that trill of surviving. The "win the war" types don't understand this at all, to them its a waste of time and resources. They look at the "battle" and figure they are doing their countrymen a favor by taking out the FH, or dropping the CV. To a furballer, this isn't a battle. Moving closer to the enemy base to "stop the advance" isn't in anyones mind, and for most, setting up the "vulch" isn't either.
The furball is nothing more than a free for all that pops up between two bases, giving both sides a quick flight to the fight. A place where you can have 50 fights in an hour instead of half a dozen. Sure you could say "the dueling arena has that area already", but its not the same. You could say the same thing to the "win the war" types, "MW arena is setup the same, all the bases are there, go capture the world there", but its not the same. The MAs are where the player are at, for better or worst, and that is where everyone seems to want to play.
The last thing that bothers furballers is the fact that the "win the war" types have another base just 25 miles away ! Why can't just go take that one? There is a whole other front with a number of bases on it, why can't they go take those? Unfortunately after this "furball" is destroyed by a "win the war" type popping the last FH, or sinking the CV another furball just doesn't "spring up" at the next base. I don't know why, maybe too many of the furballers are too busy screaming at the "win the war" types on the radio to get another one going, or maybe its like a tornado. You just never know where they will spring up again.
Woes of a buff driver:
If he attacks a CV near one of his own bases, he's killing a fight - LAMER!
If he attacks an enemy airbase where are fight is going on to help with capture, he's killing a fight - LAMER!
If he attacks one of those "plenty other bases" where there's no action at, its pointless. Besides it's a milkrun - LAMER!
If actually someone ups there to defend and a battle evolves - #2. If no one ups and he and his friends actually capture field, they are "afraid to fight and dodge the battle" - LAMER!
If he now resorts to attacking strat targets in hope he doesn't hurt anybody's feelings, he is a weak milkrunner - LAMER!
:rolleyes:
We understand all that. What's your point? :)
Personally, I like CVs parked off shore.
Usually the CV planes are much limited in performance than compared to land-based planes, so CVs off shore usually mean easy kills. Turkeyshoot is always fun. But then, after a while, the CVs start spawning red dots like spores from fungi. They overrun the clandestine shore/island defenses and start a vulching spree.
This is no fun for me.
So, I up a buff two sectors away, and go sink the CV while snickering, "How's that for 'fun', hordedorks?!"
People start screaming bloody hell.
But then again, if the danged horde hadn't shown up, I'd not have thought the CV was a threat, and I'd have been satisfied with just plane-to-plane defense. So, I justify my actions according to the rule of the "eye-for-an-eye".
You frickin' hordefreaks start overruning my base and vulch me, then I kill your damned CV.
On other occasions, there are some "vet" type guys flying out of the CV.
They come into the airfield at something like 15k, and cherrypick people on and on and on with them blue, pig planes.
When I sneakily up a plane to hunt them down, and actually arrive higher than their current position, they turn pale and run away towards the CV ack.
And this goes on and on and on and on.
Anybody having fun? I sure am not.
So, I get tired of them running to the CV. So I up a bomber two sectors away, and I go kill their CV.
You keep cherrypicking over my base, and run to CV ack everytime when somebody else chases you, then I kill your CV.
On rare occasions, I see a CV near the base.
There aren't hordes, there aren't lame pickers. It's a good furball.
But then, I realize I can up a bomber and kill the CV.
So I do it.
I'm a terrible gunner. One, just one plane flying CAP would be enough to stop me. But like so often, there is not a single person defending the CV.
So, just like delivering a good wedgie on an unexpecting moron, I up a buff, and go kill your CV.
...
I don't really think about killing other people's fun when I kill their CVs.
I only think about my own fun.
When the hordemongers vulch my base, I kill their CV in retribution.
It is deeply satisfying, and its fun for me.
When the cherrypickers keep running away towards the CV ack, I kill their CV
so they can't land their 20 kills made in their big blue pig plane.
It is deeply satisfying to know their cherrypickin' prettythang has been screwed, and its fun for me.
When there's nobody defending the CV, open skies, inviting all people who know how to
bomb stuff, I kill their CV and make them pay for their laziness.
Its fun for me.
So, who's gonna dictate me on how I should spend my 15 bucks for my own fun?
On other occasions, there are some "vet" type guys flying out of the CV.
They come into the airfield at something like 15k, and cherrypick people on and on and on with them blue, pig planes.
When I sneakily up a plane to hunt them down, and actually arrive higher than their current position, they turn pale and run away towards the CV ack.
lay off the Beer, or soft drinks or cigarettes and you could afford it.how many soft drinks, or starbuck's 7 dollar coffee's, or how many krispy kreme donut stops or fastfood places you visit in a month? a damn dollar a day is like 1 penny back in the 70's early 80's........
if people can not afford that, then they really can not afford to be playing in the 1st place........even at 15.00 a month......
and how bout you people include your in game gameid when you post a freaking reply............
TC ( where did the signatures go? )
ps. At 30 bucks a month I'll be bombing that cv, especially If I find out this crybaby thread had something to do with it.
Heh, Bodhi do a little stat checkin.
Spoken like a true griefer...
You guys really need to spend some time in the TA and learn some ACM. The game is so much better from that point of view.
Spoken like a true griefer...
You guys really need to spend some time in the TA and learn some ACM. The game is so much better from that point of view.
Heh, Bodhi do a little stat checkin.
Where do you check those stats anyway bronk?LMAO
I've been at this video game since 2000 or so
What's so funny about not caring about video game stats bronk?....I'm laughing at your claim of being here since 2000 and not knowing how/where to check stats.
check the stats.Ok
I have lotsa loot and my own plane but yet I freeload for 6 years.
H2H?
:rofl :D :P :lol
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I have lotsa loot and my own plane but yet I freeload for 6 years.
There ya go, put the price out of reach for a lot of guys so a few whiners that can afford the extra money won't have a sad video game experience..... :cryAnyone else here think that he'd still play if it went to $30 a month after his h2h story?
Ya know, we'd been having a good fight for the better part of an hour with a bish CV off of a rook base. Just the kind of great fighter fest that really grabs you and immerses you in the game. My squaddies and I were all having an absolute blast as were many of the rook pilots. Then, the inevitable happens when some dilrod had to come with dive bombing B-17's and sink the cv. WTF for? We were all having a good time and not trying to take your gdamn base! We just wanted a good furball.
********, did it make you feel cool that you ruined a fight that 30 plus people were enjoying? I bet you were the kid that was never picked for a team at recess and crap like that is your only way of getting attention. Let me guess, you used to snatch the baseball and run off with it too, right?
Crap like this is why the ack on cv's and bases needs to be super hardcore. That way one imbecile can not ruin the fun for 30 plus people.
:mad:
So, now this thread is devolving into a personal attack against beddog because he didn't have a paying account until 2006? So, is the point that unless you have been shelling out cash to HTC for more than 2 or three years you have no opinion? Or, that your opinion is somehow less valid? What does that have to do with the PITA that bombed the CV to close a furball? :huh :rolleyes:
So, now this thread is devolving into a personal attack against beddog because he didn't have a paying account until 2006? So, is the point that unless you have been shelling out cash to HTC for more than 2 or three years you have no opinion? Or, that your opinion is somehow less valid? What does that have to do with the PITA that bombed the CV to close a furball? :huh :rolleyes:Less of a right to an opinion, no... More informed than say someone of TCs status also no.
At 30 bucks I'll bomb that cv quote
Less of a right to an opinion, no... More informed than say someone of TCs status also no.
The old school furball type player that founded the online flight sim community 20 years ago is a tiny minority now. The vast majority, I would guess its over 80%, just want to win the war with the least possible resistance. Nothing can be done about it short of taking away the base capture mechanism and that aint gonna happen.
Because people here are supposed to be adults, however when they run out of opinions to say they revert back to high schoolers. This whole thread is one giant whine from such a person, followed by a series of whines from everyone else who feels differently or the same..hell I even engaged in it.
This thread, like these wines need to go bye bye. They solve nothing, they have solved nothing, they will never solve anything because everyone thinks they are right and everyone else is wrong. The end.
Llama, I think HiTech also said the main purpose of the game is to have fun. Their goal is the most fun for the most people most of the time, and they have changed the game many times in order to influence gameplay. Bombers have seen, I think, more changes than anything else- 3 versions of the bomb sight, formations, some dispersion for bombs, gun shake, arming distance for bombs- all of which addressed or created problems. Why is that, if the sole purpose of the game is to piss off customers?
Bronk,Rrgr that TC. ~S~
everyone who is a subscribing member to the online arenas has the same equal right to post their own opinion or view, I'd rather not be used in this way, Sir. Although I kind of understand where you coming from ~SALUTE~
Pissing people off is the match used to get the fire of fun lit.. It's not about griefing. Furballing in ONE spot on the map is not griefing the war winner generals, it's about having fun at the expense of... a non-existant attrition model.
The only accusation of non-integrating with the rest of the arena population that could be had against furballers is that they sap away manpower from the war-winner crowd. Oops.. It's more fun to furball than do some fake missions with no tactical combat more sophisticated than trash town, deack, vulch, drop troops.
Zzz
I guess if HT ever wanted to have "fun" he could just pull the plug 5 or 6 times in a day and piss off the entire community all at one time. That would be gobbs of fun :aok
Ok heres another dumb idea........Lets have anywhere from 2-4 CV's in a task force.....now lets say when a single CV goes down it will respawn within the task force as long as one of the remaining CV's is still up. Only when all CV's are sunk before the first one can respawn does the task force start over.
<S>999000
Ok heres another dumb idea........Lets have anywhere from 2-4 CV's in a task force.....now lets say when a single CV goes down it will respawn within the task force as long as one of the remaining CV's is still up. Only when all CV's are sunk before the first one can respawn does the task force start over.
<S>999000
Way back in the day, long before even AW, there was a game called secret weapons of the luftwaffe "swotl" for short.
Air Warrior started in '87, SWOTL was published in '91.Dam AW is older than me
Air Warrior started in '87, SWOTL was published in '91.
Ok heres another dumb idea........Lets have anywhere from 2-4 CV's in a task force.....now lets say when a single CV goes down it will respawn within the task force as long as one of the remaining CV's is still up. Only when all CV's are sunk before the first one can respawn does the task force start over.
<S>999000
Okay, i will rephrase for those of you that are kinda nit picky
"Way back in the day, long before even AW( for me), there was a game called secret weapons of the luftwaffe "swotl" for short. For an old time offline game, it was pretty fun."
There, now you will sleep tonight.
Be respectful... a fair amount of us idiots used to pay $6/hr to play online aircombat sims on GEnie.
Be respectful... a fair amount of us idiots used to pay $6/hr to play online aircombat sims on GEnie.
Bombs and rockets should only be used to PROTECT furballing interests not destroy them.
$.02
While you guys are here typing...Im stalking a CV to bomb :t
(Kidding...been taking a 6 month break from the game! )
So...pray tell, what MAY a bomber pilot drop a bomb on that wont result in a 15 page whine on the BBS? Trees? :)
While you guys are here typing...Im stalking a CV to bomb :t
(Kidding...been taking a 6 month break from the game! )
So...pray tell, what MAY a bomber pilot drop a bomb on that wont result in a 15 page whine on the BBS? Trees? :)
Like I already said.... I have never done anything like that in this game. If you would stop chasin the tequila and read you would have already seen that comment. As for the way people treat me, I never had a problem with anyone till I mentioned that 30 bucks a month was a bad idea........
One good thing about this tho.Its not the best angle of attack as they often cant line up on the target due to a one shot deal.I have infinetly more respect for the guys that sit at 20+ and circle to get a solution than these clowns. :salute :salute
from what i've heard on country channel, it seems as though these guys do this when someone decides the cv needs to be sunk NOW. it's still a waste in my opinion........i generally level bomb them when i'm asked to sink one......it's more challenging, and fun too, as whoever's controlling them usually wait too long to turn them out of the way :D
This has squeaker written all over it. A 14 year old kid gets on country channel last night and says,"how do I play this game" :rofl
Bombing is for sissies that can't fight other cartoon aeroplanes. It is just a side show. Kinda like baseball is for sissies who can't play football.
aha got it on second guess!
your 2nd pic is same as the first btw.
Get rid of formations.
BTW, who is that git? This is pretty much how the "Fun Police strike again" thread got started.
Hmmm I've got a few educated guesses whose those scores could be :D
I hate the guys who come over in bombers, drop on the base (usually miss and leave a cratered runway) then bail out. Not only do they achieve nothing but no-one gets to kill them. Even worse would be an experienced bomber levelling the fighter hangars then bailing.
From your screenshot I would be asking more questions about the 5 inch gunner. There is no way a set of buffs should be able to get that near a CV with a decent gunner on board.
Why did'nt the CV fighter cap get these guys? Or was there one? If they are going to present you easy targets, someone should have had them nailed way before they ever got to the carrier. Change tactics and this behavior will stop.
I hate to see them do away with the formations, but think that only bombing in F6 mode is a good idea.
Would you be staggered to know his bombing hit percent was just (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing015.gif) 60.63.
They do it because it works.
Give us the name, Lynx. It violates no forum rules to post the stats of another player. :devil
Seriously, try it at 8K. It doesn't matter where or when they turn it, it's almost always too late for the CV. IMO, it's too easy to sink.
<edit> With regards to the limit-to-F6 mode, a simple macro negates that. O, X, F6, B. Doors open, autopilot engages, switch to bombardier's position, autopilot engaged, bombs away. Although HTC did change things so you could no longer calibrate from the pilot's seat for laser accuracy, this change would not have any significant effect on the suicide bombers, since autopilot no longer causes a violent change to level flight.
Hmmm I've got a few educated guesses whose those scores could be :D
I hate the guys who come over in bombers, drop on the base (usually miss and leave a cratered runway) then bail out. Not only do they achieve nothing but no-one gets to kill them. Even worse would be an experienced bomber levelling the fighter hangars then bailing.
From your screenshot I would be asking more questions about the 5 inch gunner. There is no way a set of buffs should be able to get that near a CV with a decent gunner on board.
i thought HTC did some kind of fix that made it so that if you dropped ords, then bailed right away, that nothing happened?
I think your slighty off on his teammates giving him a wtg. I think the squad in question like to win the war and will do anything to defend or attack a base. If its about getting things done and quickly they are very good at it.
There is very little in praise from the Bish. Most stuff on country is kids planning where to attack next and once you've squelched them all it can be pretty quiet !
Swoopy do you not think dive bombing formation heavy bombers into a CV is a little "Gamey"?
From your screenshot I would be asking more questions about the 5 inch gunner. There is no way a set of buffs should be able to get that near a CV with a decent gunner on board.
What motivates guys to do this
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc288/lynx-AH/suicider5.jpg)
Do they think their :cool: when they take one :salute for their team so's to speak :rock. Or are they just a bunch of (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/taunt001.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org) ?
Here's my theory. Their basically lazy skilless gamey players. Jelly fish have more back bone than these guys have talent. So whys it allowed, all this CV suiciding, Vbase suiciding, hanger suiciding and town suiciding? Couple of reasons come to mind. If HTC actually coaded this out these guys would be screwed and leave. If dive bombing heavies was out they'd be faced with actually learning something or doing it the hard way. Clearly most haven't bothered or it's truly beyond their mental or physical capabilities. It's their only contribution to the game. The sole thing that keeps them here subscribing. Their niche. Take that away from them and what do they have left? They have the realisation that they can't hack it (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/shocked003.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org) and it's no longer fun. (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/scared002.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org) .
Of cause we as player don't help when we give the "wtfg" (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/gen013.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org) to these guys. They ain't clever so why should we congratulate them for a job poorly done. I think this, for want of a better word, "tactic"! reaches epidemic proportions at the weekends.
I think this post was done in the wrong way, a post about suicide bombers on its own would have been fine. But to personnally pick on a squad and player isnt on at all and to call em W#%#%S. My 2 year old girl wouldnt have done such a thing.
And I disagree that HTC needs to do anything or that this needs to be fixed.
And I disagree that HTC needs to do anything or that this needs to be fixed.
There already exists a mechanism for stopping this. Fly CAP or man the 5 inch guns.
What next, we going to ask Dale to coad away BnZ because some players do it just because they can?
I don't know about you, but I don't have time to fly a 5 mile circle over our CV for an hour in the hopes of chasing a set of bombers diving a CV at 400 MPH. There is no need of it.
Level bombers are just that, LEVEL !! HTC should make it so they MUST be level in F6 mode to drop.
What's wrong with fixing the bomb release to resemble reality?
Anyone who would fly a bomber into a CV like that is worse then a dweeb. And AH ought to fix that entire dive bombing thing so it cant happen.
Probably should simply set a programmatic limit to the degrees of pitch which a bomb can be released from a standard bomb bay. For example, if you're pitched +/-15 degrees from pure horizontal bombs from a bay will not release. Aircraft with external bomb hardpoints could release those ords at roughly any non-inverted orientation.
I real life a b-17 would do whatever the pilot in command caused it to do, so how could you possibly prevent something that could conceivably happen in real life? However,.. I will agree that it's kinda silly...
We would not have to worry about most suicide bombers if HTC made the CV's stronger. 8000lbs is no were colse enough. in reality CV's could sail back to port with a huge deal of damage.
A great mod to the game would make it impossible to sink the CV with bombs alone. This would force players to use the torp planes.
Couple of quick points:
In reply to Brooke, notice that all of your CV kills were due to torpedoes. A great mod to the game would make it impossible to sink the CV with bombs alone. This would force players to use the torp planes. I managed to torp a CV the other night with a Ki-67, but unfortunately got whacked on egress with no fighter support.
Second, I agree with disabling level bombing in excess of angles that were historically impossible. This is a simple fix that HTC could coad in an afternoon I'd bet.
Third, most bomb damage to ships took a while to become terminal. I would propose across the board that when ord is dropped on a target, if the bomber/jabo fails to survive to RTB, the damage is immediately removed. Call it 'repaired' in game terms. If that's too drastic, require some sort of time criteria- 10-20 minutes before damage is considered permanent. This would provide an incentive for bombers/jabos to actually try to survive.
Unless you penalize suicide tactics, folks that do it will continue to do so. Bomber perks are worthless to most folks.
B-17's probably could glide bomb in real life.Yes, but it was limited to something like 30 degrees IIRC. Lancaster was probably in the same ballpark. When Ju-88 became operational, one of its functions was dive bombing, it was even equipped with dive brakes. Later version were limited to 45 degrees because frame couldn't withstand the stress.
I think this post was done in the wrong way, a post about suicide bombers on its own would have been fine. But to personnally pick on a squad and player isnt on at all and to call em W#%#%S. My 2 year old girl wouldnt have done such a thing.
Why did'nt the CV fighter cap get these guys? Or was there one? If they are going to present you easy targets, someone should have had them nailed way before they ever got to the carrier. Change tactics and this behavior will stop.]
I don't think AH is out of whack with regard to CV hardness (lbs of explosive to sink). Here's a section from a previous scenario writeup. (Please let me know if there are errors in it, by the way -- always welcome to corrections.)
Ship hardness
Research on ship hardness of battleships is based on what it took to sink battleships at Pearl Harbor and what it took to sink US carriers throughout WWII. The battleship data is from http://plasma.nationalgeographic.com/pearlharbor/history/pearlharbor_facts.html , and the carrier data is from Wikipedia on various carriers. For carriers that weren't sunk, some of them survived mutliple attacks separated by time or by ability to repair some damage in between attacks. For those, I list only the estimated most-damaging attack that they survived and not all the attacks. The torpedo typically carried by the Japanese B5N "Kate" torpedo bomber was the type 91 torpedo, which typically had 529 lbs of explosive. The largest torpedo typically carried by Japanese submarines was the type 95 torpedo, which had 893 lbs of explosive. The most-common bomb carried by the Japanese D3A "Val" divebomber had 551 lbs of explosive.
Battleship; Damage Taken; Result
California (BB-44); 2 torpedo hits; 1 bomb hit; sunk
Maryland (BB-46); 2 bomb hits
Oklahoma (BB-37); 5 torpedo hits; sunk
Tennessee (BB-43); 2 bomb hits
West Virginia (BB-48); 6 torpedo hits; 2 bomb hits; sunk
Arizona (BB-39); 1 torpedo hit; 8 bomb hits; sunk
Pennsylvania (BB-38); 2 bomb hits
Nevada (BB-36) 1 torpedo hit; 6 bomb hits
Utah (BB-31); 2 torpedo hits; sunk
Carrier Damage Taken Result
Lexington (CV-2) 2 torpedoes; 3 bombs sunk
Saratoga (CV-3) 6 bombs
Yorktown (CV-5) 2 torpedoes; 3 bombs sunk
Enterprise (CV-6) 3 bombs
Wasp (CV-7) 2 torpedoes sunk
Hornet (CV-8) 3 torpedoes; 5 bombs sunk
Essex (CV-9) kamikaze
Yorktown (CV-10) 1 bomb
Intrepid (CV-11) 1 torpedo
Franklin (CV-13) kamikaze
Not sure what all the hullaballoo is about here.
I've only been playing for a couple years, but still don,t see the huge life altering problem with the Divebombing buffs.
I can honestly say that I've witnessed this once, maybe twice.
Certainly not enough for me to rant about on these BBs.
If somebody wants to divebomb with Lancs, god bless em, It doesn't affect me at all.
I have seen quite a few bomb and bails.
But why should that bother me?
I,ll laugh and move on.
Has it become such a HUGE daily,hourly,problem as to cause such an uproar in here?
I doubt it. But yet here it is.
By the sounds of this post I should be ducking and running from the torrential downpour of suicide buffs.
But if it wasn't this, it would be the ever present HOs,LA7,Spawncamping drivel that litter these BBs.
I read through these posts and was absolutley floored at the outrage caused by such inconsequencial incidents.
But I guess if ya can't think of anything better to talk about-------
Movin on,
Boner
That might work, but at the same time, we trade one lack or realism for another, in the name of gameplay. Not sure that's a step up, so much as a step sideways.I'd much prefer to see HTC limit the damage that small cannons and MGs can do to the CVs, add realistic limitations on ord release (to be fair, for all aircraft, not just heavies), remove (or heavily perk) drones, and add more ships to the fleet (this idea I really like, as it seems like the simplest implimentation).
The main gripe I have, is that a single player can come screaming in with a formation, and make a single 350mph pass on the fleet, and kill a fight. They changed the airfield layout so this would stop, so why not try it with the fleets?
This has squeaker written all over it. A 14 year old kid gets on country channel last night and says,"how do I play this game" :rofl
Finally, again, for those that didn't read it, CVs didn't die easily to bombs. It took torps to sink CVs. I agree that this is hard to implement in game because of ack lethality. So, for the sake of gameplay, I'd agree that CVs could be sunk by bombs provided there was a damage control delay tied to the survival of the level-bomber.
TGT: TT Smak Smak Smak Smak
Now tatertot if u liked that I will havta STOP :rofl
For the simple minded: TT stands for tatertot
OK more real; tatertot if your TGT is the CV in question "SINK IT" Period.
Let the whinners whinnnnnnn
Solve Prob:
There should be a Fighter Dogfight area/island in center of ALL Maps so the Fighters can have their fun.
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Also, I don't think AH CV's can turn as tight as real CV's could. Looking at some pictures of maneuvering CV's from WWII, it seems they could maneuver more quickly, which would make it harder on the level bombers and possibly even divebombers.
Again, most CVs were sunk using torpedoes, not bombs.
Most CVs had damage control- the CV didn't 'die' immediately.
Institute a need for torps to crack the integrity of the hull. Institute a time mechanism to force bombers to 'live' for a period of time. Call it damage control effots. If the bombers live, DC fails. If they die, DC succeeds.
A CV that was hit by bombs and burning would not continue to poop out F4Us.
As posted above:
It would be simple enough (I think) to coad the CV such that a certain amount of damage was equivalent to dropping the fighter hangars. This would yield the CV essentially out of the fight for a period of time.
During Midway (I think) the Yorktown took several bomb hits but remained afloat and damage parties were able to patch the flight deck so the carrier was able to conduct flight ops.
Such a coading would render the CV vulnerable for a period of time, say 15 minutes, from enemy bombers/attack planes without any additional fighter support coming from the CV.
At any rate, I don't think HTC is going to re-coad the game based upon Toonces' recommendations, but if we're looking for ways to curb dive-bombing the CV with heavies, then coading the game such that such dive bombing can't 'kill' the CV is the only method to fix it....excepting an attitude shift among the more clueless in the community (yes, wezy, this means you). Somehow I don't think the attitude thing is the way to approach the problem (if it is a problem...)
I don't understand your post, or your point yknurd.
See Rule #5
The problem is the dive bombing heavies!
So whys it allowed, all this CV suiciding, Vbase suiciding, hanger suiciding and town suiciding?
I still think it's worthless to coad something to "fix" this.Yeah, so bombs should keep flying through the wings and fuselage of planes that just dropped em, just like they did in reality :lol
You want to add some declination limiter to the plane...fine, don't need to actually dive on the CV, just fly level and drop right it.
Don't read this wrong, I lament the fact that people do this...but, coading it out is just as lame.
No, what I'm saying is that a bomber does not have to "dive" to suicide kill the CVs.
So coading something to "fix" this will not really "fix" the problem. People will just fly level and dump craploads of ordnance on the CV to kill it and die anyways.
I'm really not concerned about bomb going through wings or what really happened in reality...I don't want time spent coading something that will not "fix" the problem when that time is better spent working on CT.
So, exactly why do bombers (and the C47 and IL2) get the benefit of the external view in flight? I know they don't have the same field of view as most fighters, but you don't see the external view available for F4Us or F6Fs.
This is a side track, I know, but I am curious.
Chances are, it will need to be fixed for CT anyway, Unless you're willing to put up with the same "gaminess" in there, as well... :noid
CT is not an open arena. You can't just fly what you want where you want to. It's structured, historical, missions. If you deviate and go off and do what you want, you fail the mission.
There will be no B17s dive bombing carriers, so they don't have anything that needs fixing.
No, what I'm saying is that a bomber does not have to "dive" to suicide kill the CVs.
So coading something to "fix" this will not really "fix" the problem. People will just fly level and dump craploads of ordnance on the CV to kill it and die anyways.
I'm really not concerned about bomb going through wings or what really happened in reality...I don't want time spent coading something that will not "fix" the problem when that time is better spent working on CT.
As has been mentioned earlier in this combined post, Krusty, It's not just CV's-FH's at airfields, too. Or factory objects. It should be fixed, considering that someone in CT who takes' flak damage, or hits' from a fighter, might do something gamey like DB the primary because he's not able to maintain alt, or speed, or any of the other things' that you need to do to accurately level bomb.
Well then, I guess I'll just shut up then.You? pfft, nevah!
Incorrect. It's not going to be a factor in CT. It's not going to happen, unless it's INTENDED to happen. For the initial open (8th AF bombing) it's not intended.
You can't deviate and just go off doing what you want, not even if you take hits and dive to run or whatever.
There's even talk of mysterious engine failures if you stray too far from where you're supposed to be.
Wanting something for MA is another matter, but it's a non-issue for the CT. It's way more stuctured than you suggest.
You know, I have to take this entire thread with a certain amount of cynicism.
Reason being, the rare times you see big formations of buffs coming in at realistic altitudes (20-30K) with large numbers of escorts ready to pounce on the interceptors, IOW "The way it was and ought to be done", there is even more whining, wailing, gnashing of teeth, and strange vague threats to "report 'em" than when a formation divebombs something.
This is still going? :confused:
But his ideas of perking heavy bombers and attack bombers to death are ridiculous. He obviously is a most biased fighter jock himself.
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But his ideas of perking heavy bombers and attack bombers to death are ridiculous.
1) Use the perk system to make the suicidal use of heavily loaded formations some thing that cannot be "afforded" over the medium or long term. Medium loaded single bombers should be free to use (even if lost) to ensure players still have access to them, however the persistent reckless expenditure of bomber perks on heavily loaded or (even more expensively) heavily loaded formation based suicide missions would be eventually self limiting.
I aint no fighter jock.............. and I would not perk stuff "to death". Players must have access to stuff .
Any system must enable us to fly a bomber even if we dont have perks to fill it (or 3 of them) full of 1000/2000lb bombs. Plus we only lose those perks if we dont bring the bombers back.............. its about making repeated heavily loaded suicide expensive ............. not about denying folk the rides they want
At any rate, I don't think HTC is going to re-coad the game based upon Toonces' recommendations
Your suggestions here are all so totally one sided against bombers.No.. HTC just needs to get the cashflow of perk points right, if they implement Tilt's perk ordnance idea.
Your propositions on whole are extremely unreasonable and biased. Perking ALL Attack Bombers?? That is totally unnecessary.
Your propositions on whole are extremely unreasonable and biased. Perking ALL Attack Bombers?? That is totally unnecessary. Penalizing bombers that bail? OK, if you want to do that, then be equal and penalize fighter pilots that bail too. Perking heavier bomb loads? OK, then perk heavier ord packages for fighters too.
OK, if you want to do that, then be equal and penalize fighter pilots that bail too. Perking heavier bomb loads? OK, then perk heavier ord packages for fighters too.
The only people who would object to such an idea would be the ones we are trying to prevent.
Bruv I'll try that thread again in another 4 years ..... what a cluster :rolleyes:. Then again with all the spanners on the boards what else could they do. Like the game mate...spanners win again. wtg spanners :rock
How very usefully this system could be. If I don't like a guys opinion or just the cut of his jib. All I need do is open new threads to derail anything of importance to him u me and all in sundry. :t
The reason why ground attack lancs, no-damage-bail-outs and other similar chicanery has to be stopped: it will lose HTC business.
What does surprise me also is the P51 ( an aircraft famed for escort and air superiority, but basically lacking the cannon required to intercept heavy buffs) is the number 1 buff killer :uhoh I cry Bull hit!!
No it won't.
You grossly underestimate the resilience of the n00b in adapting to a game they play, while at the same time grossly overestimate the threats and cussing of dissatisified few people on the boards.
I have not proposed to perk all attack bombers............. it would be unreasonable to do so and as you say it is totally unnecessary. Players must be able to access all bombers free of perks (except such as the Arado 234).
Im just curious why you feel the Ar234 should continue to be perked?
It carries all of 3 bombs. Most folks Ive seen flying it can't hit a thing with it.
Was in the 8 inch shelling a town prior to an invasion when some newbie ups a A6m to de-ack the field ......all on his own. My first responds to this intrepid individuals actions was "he's (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/whacky115.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org)". Second thought was :furious he's going to piss me CV away and thirdly I thought :pray I hope they don't notice him. Well of course they seen him. He died to the ack within seconds of his arrival and re-upped.
Within minutes the screen shot captures the response. One guy actually does a torp (fair play :saluter ) run in ju88' but notice the others. This first round was beaten off but it turned into a rinse & repeat episode to include another 2 low level bomber pilots. I'll add here the bombers were not piloted by newbies or squeakers. Names are blocked out but everyone would recognise at least 2 of the 3. I'm not naming and shaming as such just pointing out it's becoming the normal response to a CV. A newbie who witnesses this type of game play gets to learn what?
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc288/lynx-AH/suiciders11.jpg)
Yes it's a cv in the screen shot but equally I've witness these same things at v-bases, fields, towns and gv invasions.
I realise HTC can't code out "stupid" but here's what he didn't bring here from the other games he developed :-
Bomber auto gunners leading to ack stars (rolling on capped fields auto gunners having a watermelon fit or flying through a furball just for the hell of it).
Runway damage leading to plane spawn point abuse (drop a bomb just in front of planes spawn so's planes die instantly or can't up).
Here is a video of a few other short comings you forgot to mention about AHII.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU
Here is a video of a few other short comings you forgot to mention about AHII.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU
I realise HTC can't code out "stupid":aok
Was in the 8 inch shelling a town prior to an invasion when some newbie ups a A6m to de-ack the field ......all on his own. My first responds to this intrepid individuals actions was "he's (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/whacky115.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org)". Second thought was :furious he's going to piss me CV away and thirdly I thought :pray I hope they don't notice him. Well of course they seen him. He died to the ack within seconds of his arrival and re-upped.
Within minutes the screen shot captures the response. One guy actually does a torp (fair play :saluter ) run in ju88' but notice the others. This first round was beaten off but it turned into a rinse & repeat episode to include another 2 low level bomber pilots. I'll add here the bombers were not piloted by newbies or squeakers. Names are blocked out but everyone would recognise at least 2 of the 3. I'm not naming and shaming as such just pointing out it's becoming the normal response to a CV. A newbie who witnesses this type of game play gets to learn what?
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc288/lynx-AH/suiciders11.jpg)
Yes it's a cv in the screen shot but equally I've witness these same things at v-bases, fields, towns and gv invasions.
I realise HTC can't code out "stupid" but here's what he didn't bring here from the other games he developed :-
Bomber auto gunners leading to ack stars (rolling on capped fields auto gunners having a watermelon fit or flying through a furball just for the hell of it).
Runway damage leading to plane spawn point abuse (drop a bomb just in front of planes spawn so's planes die instantly or can't up).